Enjoy early access to Andrea’s story here; before it is published to all of the popular platforms on October 17, 2026.
Episode #208: Andrea Pompele
Owner & Founder
Pompele Safaris
Guest Bio
Andrea Pompele is an evolutionary biologist, ecologist, expedition leader, and the owner and founder of Pompele Safaris. With extensive experience across more than 18 African countries, Andrea has developed deep knowledge of diverse landscapes including savannas, equatorial forests, deserts, mountains, and coastal regions along the Indian Ocean. Combining his academic background in evolutionary biology and animal behavior with years of field experience, he offers a safari approach that goes beyond wildlife viewing to explore ecological relationships and natural processes. Andrea personally designs and leads private African expeditions, tailoring them to each traveler’s interests while fostering curiosity and connection with the natural world.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins sits down with Andrea Pompele to explore the philosophy and practice behind Pompele Safaris. Andrea shares how his childhood in the mountainous Aosta Valley of northern Italy and family history spanning continents inspired his lifelong passion for nature and exploration. Listeners gain insight into his unique approach to guiding, which emphasizes scientific interpretation, presence in the moment, and fostering a genuine connection between travelers and their environment.
Andrea explains the benefits of having a private guide who accompanies clients throughout their entire journey, offering personalized itineraries and the flexibility to focus on each traveler’s particular interests. He also discusses the challenges and rewards of working as a non-local guide in Africa, the importance of collaboration within the safari industry, and the value of slow, immersive safaris that allow guests to truly experience place and wildlife beyond surface-level encounters.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Private guiding offers a continuous, personalized experience from start to finish, unlike traditional multi-guide lodge safaris.
- ✓ Andrea’s guiding approach focuses on ecological understanding, animal behavior, and the deeper rhythms of nature.
- ✓ He invites travelers to choose from thematic elements—water, air, earth, and fire—to tailor their safari experience.
- ✓ Walking safaris are a specialty, allowing guests to engage directly with the ecosystem and embody their inner wilderness.
- ✓ The luxury of privacy and seclusion in safari experiences is increasingly valued over traditional luxury amenities.
- ✓ Presence and mindfulness in the wild are essential skills for safety and deeper connection with the environment.
- ✓ Genuine enthusiasm and passion from a guide greatly enhance the quality and memorability of a safari.
- ✓ Collaboration within the safari industry benefits all parties and enriches traveler experiences.
- ✓ Living and guiding in the bush requires respect for nature’s unpredictability and a readiness to adapt.
- ✓ Sustainable practices and careful consideration of environmental impact, such as in balloon safaris, are important to Andrea’s philosophy.
What You’ll Find on Pompele Safaris
- ✓ Expertly designed private safaris across multiple African countries, tailored to individual interests and curiosity.
- ✓ A guide who personally accompanies guests throughout the entire journey, providing continuity and deep engagement.
- ✓ Emphasis on slow safaris that foster authentic connection with wildlife and landscapes away from crowds.
- ✓ Opportunities for walking safaris and immersive experiences that go beyond traditional game drives.
- ✓ Scientific and ecological interpretation that enriches understanding of animal behavior and ecosystem dynamics.
- ✓ Commitment to sustainable travel practices to minimize environmental impact and respect local cultures.
Learn more about Pompele Safaris and connect with Andrea at:
https://pompelesafaris.com/
Send Andrea a Message
Send a short message through this guest feature page. Your email address will be included if the message is forwarded.
No need to mention this page. Your note will show that it came through this Big World Made Small guest feature.
Message Sent
Your message has been sent.
Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Guest support helps make the episode possible, but it does not determine who is featured. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.
Guest access: enter your password to unlock your resources.
Incorrect password.
Guest & Partner Resources (Private)
Thank you Andrea, for being a Expedition Partner with us.
We’d love to have you join us at the next level and get even more out of your appearance on the Big World Made Small Podcast.
Below you will find access to tools to help you promote your episode and get the most from your partnership benefits. This section is only visible when you use the link we sent, or by entering the password BWMS8873. Do not share the email we sent, or the password, unless you want the person to access the following resources.
Follow, Rate, or Provide a Testimonial
Please use this tracking link to share with your audience:
https://bigworldmadesmall.com/guest/andrea-pompele/?ref=guest8873
Cover Art
This is available to all podcast guests.
Download the file to use on your website or social media posts.
Buzzsprout Audio Player
This is available to all podcast guests.
This is the best option for website embeds, especially prior to the release date. Guests can listen to your episode on your website. This player keeps listeners on your site, which is why I use it.
Use this code to embed your Buzzsprout Player directly on your website:
<div id="buzzsprout-player-19781461"></div><script src="https://www.buzzsprout.com/2216718/episodes/19781461-adventure-travel-with-andrea-pompele-pompele-safaris.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-19781461&player=small" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>Full-Length YouTube Video Player
This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.
You can share it before the release date, but your video won’t be searchable on YouTube until the release date. The player allows site visitors to watch your episode directly on your site.
Use this code to embed your YouTube Video directly on your website:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OTuH2Ta7nPk?si=pUK3M7WwN3XPnEao&rel=0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>45 Minute One-on-One Website Review
This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.
Your package includes a 45 minute video call where I will be your second set of eyeballs as we go through your website looking for a handful of changes or updates you can make to improve your conversions. I will share my feedback and you can share it with your marketing team, or we can explore ways that I may be able to help you make the changes. This is not a sales call, it’s an idea session that will give you some actionable insights and you can decide how to implement them.
Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©
This is available to Expedition & Summit Partners.
Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©
This Big World Made Small guest resource helps you use your featured guest page to approach relevant podcasts, interview series, live shows, and other media opportunities. Every Generate Pitch button below creates a personalized outreach draft using your guest feature, story, and the specific opportunity you choose.
Want a faster starting point? Use the fit-sorting tool to reorder the list based on which opportunities appear strongest for you. Either way, each generated pitch is still customized before you copy it or open an email draft.
Note: email apps do not always load your normal signature when opening a pre-filled draft. Before sending, add your signature manually, or use Copy Pitch and paste the draft into a new email so your usual signature is included.
Tourpreneur Podcast
Hosted by Mitch Bach
Why it may fit: Best for tour operators, guides, experience designers, tourism founders, travel tech/service providers, and industry experts with practical lessons for experience-based travel businesses.
Audience: Tour operators, guides, activity providers, travel experience creators, tourism entrepreneurs, and businesses serving the tours and activities sector.
Suggested angle: Pitch a specific, useful lesson from your tourism business: growth, guest experience, guiding, tour design, storytelling, sustainability, niche positioning, partnerships, or operational improvement.
Destination On The Left
Hosted by Nicole Mahoney
Why it may fit: Best for tourism leaders, destination marketers, operators, hospitality professionals, consultants, and experience-based travel businesses with a useful collaboration, marketing, or destination-development story.
Audience: Tourism professionals, destination marketers, hospitality leaders, travel trade professionals, tourism consultants, DMOs, attractions, operators, and industry service providers.
Suggested angle: Pitch a practical tourism lesson around collaboration, destination marketing, visitor experience, partnerships, hospitality, accessibility, sustainability, travel trade, or creative growth strategy.
Destination Marketing Podcast
Hosted by Adam Stoker
Why it may fit: Best for tourism marketers, DMO leaders, travel brands, operators, consultants, and experience-based businesses with a clear lesson about attracting visitors or improving destination strategy.
Audience: Destination marketers, tourism professionals, DMOs, CVBs, tourism agencies, travel brands, hospitality marketers, and industry service providers.
Suggested angle: Pitch a specific tourism marketing lesson around destination storytelling, niche positioning, visitor experience, partnerships, content strategy, community building, sustainability, or measurable campaign results.
Zero To Travel
Hosted by Jason Moore
Why it may fit: Best for guests with strong traveler-facing stories, practical travel lessons, destination expertise, adventure experience, nomad lifestyle insight, or a compelling personal transformation through travel.
Audience: Travelers, aspiring long-term travelers, digital nomads, backpackers, adventure travelers, career-break travelers, and people seeking deeper or more independent travel experiences.
Suggested angle: Pitch a traveler-focused story or practical lesson around meaningful travel, adventure, destination immersion, career breaks, long-term travel, responsible travel, personal transformation, or travel lifestyle design.
Amateur Traveler
Hosted by Chris Christensen
Why it may fit: Best for guides, operators, destination experts, travel writers, locals, historians, and tourism professionals who can explain why a specific destination is worth visiting and how to experience it well.
Audience: Curious travelers, independent travelers, cultural travelers, destination researchers, itinerary planners, and people looking for practical advice before choosing or planning a trip.
Suggested angle: Pitch a destination-specific episode with a clear one-week itinerary, practical planning advice, cultural context, local insight, hidden gems, common mistakes, and reasons travelers should visit now.
Travel With Meaning
Hosted by Mike Schibel
Why it may fit: Best for guests with a strong personal travel story, meaningful destination experience, hospitality background, outdoor/adventure connection, conservation angle, or transformational travel lesson.
Audience: Travelers, hospitality professionals, outdoor enthusiasts, creatives, entrepreneurs, travel storytellers, and people interested in meaningful, experience-driven travel.
Suggested angle: Pitch a personal story about how travel changed your life, career, worldview, business, community, or relationship with nature, with a clear emotional hook and useful takeaway for travelers.
The Thoughtful Travel Podcast
Hosted by Amanda Kendle
Why it may fit: Best for travelers, guides, writers, creators, operators, educators, and tourism professionals with reflective stories about culture, connection, slow travel, responsible tourism, or personal growth through travel.
Audience: Thoughtful travelers, slow travelers, cultural travelers, travel storytellers, bloggers, writers, photographers, educators, and people interested in deeper travel experiences.
Suggested angle: Pitch a story tied to one clear travel theme: meeting locals, slow travel, culture shock, getting lost, responsible travel, memorable travel moments, travel lessons, or how one journey changed your perspective.
Armchair Explorer
Hosted by Aaron Millar
Why it may fit: Best for guests with a truly strong adventure story, expedition background, conservation journey, wilderness guiding experience, remote destination expertise, or dramatic traveler-facing narrative.
Audience: Adventure travelers, outdoor enthusiasts, armchair explorers, expedition fans, travel storytellers, conservation-minded travelers, and people drawn to immersive travel narratives.
Suggested angle: Pitch one specific, high-stakes travel story with a clear beginning, tension, turning point, and takeaway, not a general business bio or promotional destination pitch.
Women Who Travel
Hosted by Lale Arikoglu
Why it may fit: Best for female-identifying travelers, guides, founders, writers, creators, conservation voices, hospitality leaders, and destination experts with a strong personal travel story or useful perspective for women travelers.
Audience: Women travelers, solo travelers, culturally curious travelers, outdoor/adventure travelers, Condé Nast Traveler readers, and people interested in personal stories about how women experience the world.
Suggested angle: Women travelers, solo travelers, culturally curious travelers, outdoor/adventure travelers, Condé Nast Traveler readers, and people interested in personal stories about how women experience the world.
Unpacked by AFAR
Hosted by Aislyn Greene
Why it may fit: Best for credible travel experts, operators, guides, conservation voices, hospitality leaders, and destination specialists with practical insight for thoughtful travelers.
Audience: Thoughtful travelers, AFAR readers, travel planners, cultural travelers, sustainability-minded travelers, destination researchers, and people who want smarter travel advice.
Suggested angle: Pitch a timely, expert-led travel question: ethical wildlife tourism, community-based travel, overtourism, local culture, sustainability, destination decision-making, guiding standards, or how travelers can choose better experiences.
Active Travel Adventures
Hosted by Kit Parks
Why it may fit: Best for guides, operators, destination experts, active travel companies, outdoor educators, and travelers with practical advice or stories around hiking, biking, paddling, walking, or soft adventure travel.
Audience: Active travelers, adventure travelers, hikers, bikers, paddlers, walkers, pilgrimage travelers, national park visitors, and travelers over 50 seeking doable active vacations.
Suggested angle: Pitch a specific active travel destination or experience with practical planning advice, difficulty level, training tips, safety considerations, cultural context, and why it is doable for reasonably fit travelers.
Tour Pro Talks
Hosted by Genevieve White
Why it may fit: This is a strong fit for guests with practical tourism experience, founder stories, destination expertise, guiding knowledge, or useful lessons for tour operators and travel professionals.
Audience: Tour operators, guides, DMCs, travel advisors, tourism marketers, and small to mid-sized travel businesses interested in practical industry conversations and better guest communication.
Suggested angle: Position the guest around a practical tourism lesson, founder/operator story, destination expertise, or a conversation that helps tour professionals better connect with their ideal guests.
All Video & Audio Files with Rights to Repurpose
This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.

Use these buttons to access and download the video files from our conversation on Riverside.fm.
Important: Do this now, since the files will likely be removed from the server on October 17, 2026
45 Minute Content Strategy Session
This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.
Your package includes a 45 minute video call where we can discuss ways that you can use the video assets you’ve received as a partner. Whether it’s advising you on how to create shorts from the raw video, or how to post the entire video on YouTube and embed it on your site. We’ll come up with at least a few actionable ideas, and discuss how to implement them. This is not a sales call, it’s more like a paid coaching session, that you’ve already paid for.
Custom Branded Video Clips (12 clips)
This is available to Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
2 x 45 Minute Digital Marketing Strategy Sessions
This is available to Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
Review & Suggest Topic Tags
Review Episode Topics
These topic suggestions help keep this episode profile accurate and easier to find. Your suggestions will be reviewed before any changes are made.
Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason (01:09)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today and also very excited to have our guest. Today we’ve got Andrea Pompele. He’s the owner and founder of Pompele Safaris. Andrea, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Andrea (01:27)
Thank you, I’m very excited Jason, thank you for inviting me.
Jason (01:30)
It’s gonna be fun. We’ve actually I’ll let the audience in on a little bit of podcasting insight here. We’ve actually spoken a couple times. The first time was just to make sure that we it seemed like a good fit. The second time we came to record a conversation last week and we had some internet issues that made it a little bit of challenging. so I’ve had the pleasure of now this is my third conversation with you. So Andrea, welcome welcome back. It’s so it’s good to see you again. And I know you’re in a better spot with better internet, so excited to see how that goes.
Andrea (01:58)
Yes, this tank should be working properly, so I’m really excited
Jason (02:01)
All right, very cool.
Andrea (02:02)
about it.
Jason (02:03)
And I and I should share with the audience that we only got about three minutes into the conversation last time. So it’s not like we’ve had this whole conversation. There’s still gonna be a lot of new information and and spontaneity coming out, because I haven’t really heard your story yet. So I appreciate your patience and coming back to to join me. Andrea, where are you before we get into anything, I’m just curious, where are you physically located? ‘Cause you’re in a different spot now than you were last time, hence the better internet.
Andrea (02:28)
Yes, I’m moving a lot actually and I am in Northern Italy in the city of Milan where
Jason (02:34)
Okay.
Andrea (02:36)
I’m visiting friends at the moment. And here the internet should work much better.
Jason (02:38)
Very cool.
And you’ve also for for our guests that are watching it, they already see that you’ve got some spectacular are those paintings or photos or what it what’s behind you?
Andrea (02:49)
There are pictures, there are photos of my friends and she’s a professional photographer, wildlife photographer. yes, these are, you can see behind me there’s a bear and then there’s a leopard and then we have lions with tigers around in pictures of course.
Jason (03:04)
Lions and tigers and bears, my.
Well, she’s she’s clearly a very talented photographer. And we’re gonna we’re not probably gonna talk too much about bears. We are probably gonna touch on, you know, leopard leopards and lions and stuff like that, because anybody that heard the introduction, I said Pompey Safaris, they might figure out that maybe we’re gonna discuss Africa a little bit. but your accent
Andrea (03:23)
Thanks.
Jason (03:24)
and you’re you’re originally from Italy, correct?
Andrea (03:27)
I am from Italy, yes, I am from Northern Italy, not specifically from Milan, but I am from the western part of Italy on the border with France and Switzerland in a very mountainous
Jason (03:36)
All right.
Andrea (03:37)
region.
Jason (03:38)
Yeah, very, very cool. We’re gonna really get into the conversation to figure out kind of where you started. We just touched on Italy. We’re gonna get back to that when we kind of dig into, you know, how the heck did you get from where you were to where you are now? But before we do that, let’s share with our listeners not where you are physically right at this moment, but where you are in life. So I guess the best way to do that is just share with our listeners what is Pompey Safaris.
Kind of what is it that you do? What is your specialty? How do you help your clients? We won’t get into the history quite yet, but just kind of give us a foundation of what it is you do, and then we’re gonna go back in time and figure out how the heck you got to that.
Andrea (04:14)
Of course. So I am a private safari guide. So I offer my guiding skills on safaris all over Africa. I just open new pathways and…
Basically, I contact directly the guests that contacted me and I am designing their safaris as a private guide. So I accompany them from the beginning to the end of their journey.
Jason (04:39)
Very cool. You said the word you s I think you said, I’m opening new pathways. I don’t know if that’s a business name or if you’re just talking about your change in the way you do things. What do you mean by new pathways?
Andrea (04:51)
I am changing a little bit the way I do things and actually I’m expanding. I’m expanding throughout the whole African continent. Previously I was more tied to a certain region, now I’m expanding through the African continent.
Jason (05:04)
Okay. I think he did a great job explaining what a private Safari guide is, but I do want to dig a little deeper into it because it might be something
Andrea (05:11)
Yes.
Jason (05:11)
new that people are not familiar with, maybe in their mind, or maybe they’ve been to Africa and before they booked it through maybe a tour operator in the US or someone
Andrea (05:20)
Yes.
Jason (05:21)
in in in Europe that sent them and they went and they had somebody that met them at at an airport, took them to a hotel, someone else picked them up the next morning, took them to a lodge. I don’t know, you know more about this than I do, but what
Andrea (05:30)
Yes.
Jason (05:33)
is the mate?
You mentioned that you accompany them, but other than that,
Andrea (05:36)
Yes.
Jason (05:37)
what’s the major difference between working with a private guide and a more traditional, I don’t know, lodge or tour operator situation?
Andrea (05:45)
So the main difference is that I am designing the entire itinerary of the guests and I’m with them throughout from the moment they land until the moment they go away and they finish
Jason (05:56)
Okay.
Andrea (05:56)
their safari. So I am accompanying them throughout all the journey and throughout all the stages of the safari.
What I can do is offering actually my expertise as guide into the SFIs adding an extra value on that. In particular because I am…
specialized in some of the skills which are unique or at least they very rare compared with others. So generally a safari works like that. The guests are landing into an airport, international airport, wherever in Africa they’re going, of course. And they’ve been picked up, as you mentioned, by some drivers. They transfer them to the hotel first to a little rest.
the next day they start their proper safari or they go into the bush and then they have their guide. Sometimes the lodges have different guides from different lodges. maybe you spend some time in one lodge, then another three or four days on another lodge and then you change guide.
Jason (06:58)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (06:59)
Other DMCs, which are destination managed companies, they offer you throughout the same guide.
the same but I am actually adding more about that so I organized the entire things and I am with the guest the entire time
Jason (07:16)
Okay. So I love that you mentioned DMCs and you actually said destination management companies. Mm a a lot of our listeners kind of if they’ve listened to me for a while, they’ve heard this conversation about what is a DMC. So we won’t I’m just gonna describe it as well, I should let you describe it. How would you describe DMC if you’re having a conversation with someone, the the topic comes up and they’re like, What is a destination management company? I’d love for you to hear your perspective.
Andrea (07:42)
Yeah, my perspective is that simplifying of course, destination management company is usually a local tool operator that organizes the bookings on site from a travel agent that might be from another continent for example. And so let’s say that you want to go to Kenya for example, but you are based in the US, you contact directly an agent in the US which is of your trust and that person organizes for
you
through another agency, is
Jason (08:09)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (08:09)
another DMC, destination managed
Jason (08:12)
Right.
Andrea (08:12)
company, local, on site. And then from there, the things
Jason (08:15)
Okay. So what I what go ahead.
Andrea (08:17)
are developing throughout the time.
Jason (08:19)
Right. So what I heard you say, and and based on my kind of knowledge of the of the business, is somebody’s maybe let’s say somebody from the US. Let’s say somebody in Milwaukee, Wisconsin wants to go to Kenya, and
Andrea (08:30)
Yeah.
Jason (08:31)
maybe they’re talking w speaking with somebody that’s either tour operator, an agent, or something, maybe in the US. And
Andrea (08:38)
Yes.
Jason (08:39)
that person in the US kind of talks, discusses t with them the different options, sets everything up. But then in the background, they’re communicating with a partner on the ground.
in Kenya who’s actually
Andrea (08:49)
Yeah.
Jason (08:50)
saying, well, these are the places that are available on those dates. And and you know, so it’s kind of a a dance, I guess, between the the agent or operator in Wisconsin and the tour operator on the ground to put it all together. Making this much more complicated than I need to. I know. Here’s where I’m going with this.
Is what I hear you saying is that you’ve I don’t want to say cut out the middleman, but you’ve got you’re on the ground in Africa, you’ve got the experience in Africa, you’re not a travel agent or a tour operator living in Wisconsin. so
Andrea (09:23)
Yes.
Jason (09:24)
you’ve got the expertise and the ability to put things together, but you’re also working directly with the clients. So you’re the one having the conversation about, you know, what are you guys most interested in? And so in a sense, you’re kind of doing a little bit of all of it is what it sounds like.
Is that accurate?
Andrea (09:40)
Yeah,
yes, more or less yes. So I would like to explain a little bit more about that.
Jason (09:45)
Please do.
Andrea (09:47)
So I’m not cutting out anyone actually because it sounds bad. I’m adding extra value with my presence to the journey of the guest that would like to come on safari. So the guests have two options. Either he contacts an agent and the agent contacts the tour operator. And the tour operator contacts me, for example, which is
Jason (10:04)
Right. Yeah.
Andrea (10:06)
like, okay, we would like to have your services as a private guide
Jason (10:10)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (10:10)
in this safari.
or the guest, the final guest, contacts me directly and I am organizing everything through a tour operator as well, together with a tour operator, on
Jason (10:21)
Okay.
Andrea (10:22)
the ground and accompanying the guest throughout their journey. Why I’m calling it journey and not only Safari? Because Safari is actually the Swahili word for journey, okay? And…
So what I like to offer is a different way of traveling, a different way to experience the travel, which means safari, in Africa. And so the way I do is by proposing some of the elements that could be actually be focused on from the guest’s point of view. when you contact me, the first
thing I do is I start with a conversation either with the agent or with the guest. So what the guest, for example, would like to see. What the guest is more drawn to. And I usually propose four elements. The four elements are my narrative to make people understanding what I do. And so, for example, the elements are water, air, earth, and fire.
But of course in the traditions of the world we have five elements, not only four. The fifth element is us, the spirit.
So what I do is actually the idea is to stimulate the curiosity of the guest to go on choosing one of those four elements. And then we design together with the tour operator or the agent, an itinerary that actually satisfies the needs of the guest of that element. Considering that in every safari there are the four elements. So I make you an example.
if you are drawn to an element, which is the element would you like to explore more in this fall?
Jason (11:57)
All right.
I I guess, you know, you probably hear it as like, well, geez, I’m not sure if I just if you said you said earth, fire, water, and air. I would say air. Let’s let’s see where we go with air. Yeah.
Andrea (12:08)
Yes. You would say A.
Okay, air is a very subtle element. It is something that is around us at all times, but we cannot really focus on that until we actually put some attention on it. your safari will be, for example, a safari that will imply a different way of perceiving air. So what is actually producing the oxygen we are
Jason (12:34)
okay.
Andrea (12:34)
actually breathing? Plants. So I will draw you to
the rainforest and I will explain you the combination between the elements into the rainforest focusing my attention on what the plants can do for you.
Jason (12:49)
Okay. All right. Very cool. And is it reasonable for for somebody to say, you know what, I want a sampling of all four? And ’cause I know you
Andrea (12:55)
Yes.
Jason (12:56)
have the ability to to to touch on all four of those things. Do you get that very often? Or is it usually is it easy to get somebody
Andrea (13:02)
Mm.
Jason (13:03)
to focus on one? I how does that work?
Andrea (13:05)
Yeah, usually people get drawn to one element and then they find out that actually all the elements are all around. So it’s multidisciplinary things. It’s like pan-tropical things, pan-African things. And so after that, they find out they want to explore something more around that other element which is present on the safari and then we put attention on that.
Jason (13:28)
You’ve been working with people for a long time in this space, and I’m curious, have you gotten to the point where you can kind of I don’t know, is there a connection between the element they’re interested in and their personality style or type? Is it I guess where I’m going with this is if somebody says air, are they typically a certain type of person? do you like can you figure out a lot about somebody based on
what they which one they mention. I’m just curious. I have no idea.
Andrea (13:59)
Well, actually you cannot categorize very easily because the idea is that if you say air, for example, you’re more in the mind, you have a quicker mind, a lot of ideas, all right? That might be something that is actually resonating.
Jason (14:15)
thank you. Well, clearly it works perfectly. There is a connection.
No, just kidding.
Andrea (14:22)
Yeah, that’s good. But
the focus I would like to talk about is that, okay? You say the word that is very important, which is connection.
So often people look at the safari as an experience and there’s nothing wrong with that. But the experience can be actually lived in different ways. So what I want to focus on my attention is on a true connection between the environment you are in and the element you represent, the spirit. so the human being goes often. And I worked in conservation for my background. Then we’re going to get there later about people perceive
the environment for something distant to them. While we are not distant to the environment, we are part of the ecosystem. So that connection can be actually remade and strengthened in different ways. And a safari can actually be a very important pivoting moment of a life of a person to actually strengthen this connection with nature and with the outdoors.
Jason (15:21)
You know,
you know, when I heard you say that, I happen to know that one of your specialty is kind of that walking thing, right? That getting out of the vehicle, walking and connecting with that. So that’s immediately what comes up when I hear you talk.
People are separated from their environment. Very much so. I you look at the the typical person that lives pretty much anywhere. I’m not gonna say the US, but you know, we live in a house. We’ve got we’ve got windows. If we open the windows, we’ve got screens on the windows. It’s and when things from the outside come inside, we don’t always like it.
Andrea (15:54)
Yeah.
Jason (15:55)
but almost the extreme opposite of that is being in Africa.
on the ground digging through elephant poop to look at beetles or whatever. Right?
Andrea (16:04)
Yes.
So the idea of a safari from my point of view is what I would like to offer. It is an authentic experience that reconnects you with nature in different ways. It can be on a game drive, can be throughout observing the sky, throughout the night and so having a star safari for example, which is actually very interesting because it’s also a matter of traveling through time and then we’re gonna get there later.
and of course also walking. A walking safari for me is very important as is one of my skills, one of my specialties because you’re no longer…
a spectator of the wildlife viewing of the wildlife show. But you’re part of it. You embody the animal part of you, your inner wilderness, by moving into an ecosystem which is not often very easy to move through. Or at least that people have forgotten how to.
And as you said, our society is hyper-technological, always connected, distant a little bit from nature. Also, as you mentioned as well, where we are living at the moment. So reconnecting with the inner wilderness, which we have because we are part of the human species and we evolved in these environments, actually gets a very big benefit from a physical point of view, from an emotional point of view, and from a mind.
set point to you and helps us to put the things into perspective and perspective is another of the words I would like to talk with you about because
Jason (17:38)
Yeah, let’s dig in.
Andrea (17:40)
I am actually guiding in a style that will change your perspective.
So my point is that I have an approach which is scientific. And so we can go deep, deep, deep into the science to explain some things or stay a little bit more on surface, that’s for sure, depending on the type of client.
Jason (18:01)
Mm-hmm. I’m
happy you mentioned that because some people I know I’ve been around guiding and w wilderness type stuff long enough. Some people want to really dig deep and others kind of gloss over and just okay, that’s a little too much.
Andrea (18:16)
Yes, so the ability for me is that I can switch between one pole to the other one to be a little bit on surface and enjoying because of course it’s an enjoyable thing to go deep deep deep deep deep deep until you actually are satisfied of what you want to see and what you want to understand because this is another point is understanding the ecosystems.
Jason (18:40)
You know, when you say that, it I reflected on my experience in Africa. I’ve been a couple times and I haven’t really I haven’t had the private guide experience. I’ve I’ve had amazing experiences, very good guides, but it’s typically let’s say we’re going on a game drive or even a walk, it’s a mixed group.
of people, which is fun. You know, I really enjoy I’m
Andrea (18:59)
Yes. Yes.
Jason (19:03)
very, very outgoing. I like meeting people for the first time and and seeing them experience it and all that stuff. But when you discuss, you know, how deep we’re gonna go on the science, my experience was, you know, the guide has a challenge. He’s got eight people with him and they’re
Andrea (19:18)
Yeah.
Jason (19:19)
different backgrounds, different interest levels and stuff. So it kind of just kinda just felt like it stayed on the surface, honestly.
You know, where w there wasn’t a lot of digging around an I don’t know why I’m gonna say digging around an elephant poop. I know I don’t want people to think that’s all we’re we’re gonna go to Africa to dig around an elephant. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they’re probably not gonna spend a lot
Andrea (19:35)
Which is not something that the guest might enjoy to do.
Jason (19:41)
of time doing that. But someone like me might really enjoy that. Yeah.
Andrea (19:44)
Exactly. So that depends on the type of guest, on the
personality of the guest, on the personal interest of the guest, and that’s very important to understand where and when to go deeper and when not to go deeper.
Jason (19:57)
Mm-hmm. Which
is one of the benefits of having a private guide. It’s not all just because
Andrea (20:00)
Exactly. Exactly.
Jason (20:02)
sometimes sometimes people just think, private this is I think this is an important discussion, actually. I’m not sure I’m doing with it, but I think sometimes, well, I want a private guide so that I can sleep in in the morning if I want. I want a private guide so I can come back to the lodge early if I want. They think about the practical benefits of having a private guide that
maybe around scheduling. But what you and I
Andrea (20:27)
Yes.
Jason (20:27)
are discussing, and that still probably remains, but what you and I are discussing
Andrea (20:30)
It does.
Jason (20:31)
is with the private guide is that ability to okay, maybe I’ve seen enough elephants and I want to go look for something really weird that nobody else is interested. Maybe honey badgers. Maybe I have a thing for honey badgers and if I’ve got a pr
Andrea (20:43)
Yeah, I mean, by just
entertaining.
Jason (20:45)
Yeah, yeah, cool. You know,
and it’s like if I’ve got a particular interest in honey badgers, as long as my travel companion puts up with it, we can say, okay, enough elephants, let’s go find honey badgers, or let’s go find you know, the ant tigers or whatever, you know, different or the or the birds. I think that that’s I don’t know where I’m going with that. That’s just what I’m thinking.
Andrea (21:04)
Yeah, you’re
absolutely right Jason. So there are many benefits to have a private guide. One benefit of having a private guide is the flexibility. And so you have a flexibility of actually focusing on what you’re more interested into. The other thing that comes with experience is actually being able to focus on things without having too many people around.
And as the the guiding industry and the tourism industry, let’s call it the safari industry is getting more popular and popular, which is a good thing because people, of course, are going on safari more and so on. They get this connection between ecosystems and themselves is also posing a little bit of ethical problems. OK,
Jason (21:47)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (21:47)
shall we go all together in the same place in the same spot to see in the same
thing and my approach is different. I call it the slow safari. So the slow safari is spending enough time in a place to understand the rhythm of it. The rhythm is something you can actually understand through observations and experience and the guests that are coming with me they usually go and choose places where there’s no crowds.
They highly value privacy, and that’s very important for me as well, because the luxury nowadays is not having a beautiful lodge, a five-star menu, and a private chef, but is actually being able to disconnect and being alone, or almost alone, okay, with me, of course,
Jason (22:37)
Yeah.
Andrea (22:38)
into the wilderness.
And the wilderness nowadays is becoming rarer and rarer because, of course, development is happening and finding places in which you can see only one car or a spot in which you are not disturbed and the animals are actually relaxed enough to come to you.
Jason (23:05)
Okay. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (23:07)
offers you a very deep experience which is totally far away from what I call Masterism.
Jason (23:16)
Okay. Andrea, here’s what’s coming up for me. Because as I mentioned earlier, I’m outgoing. I like to meet people. I like to connect with people. And
Andrea (23:23)
Yes. Yes.
Jason (23:24)
I do. So as someone like that listening to this conversation right now,
Andrea (23:29)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (23:30)
I might actually be thinking, Well, I don’t know if I want privacy and
And space and aloneness. Maybe I actually enjoy meeting other travelers. So I’d love to hear your kind of thoughts on. I mean, for the person that says, you know what, I enjoy the lodge experience because I get to meet new people.
Andrea (23:49)
Yes?
Jason (23:50)
or I enjoy the idea of going out as a small group tour because I get to be around other people. So
Andrea (23:57)
Yes?
Jason (23:58)
is that person? I know you’ve dealt with all types.
Andrea (24:01)
Yes.
Jason (24:02)
Is
that person? How do you work with that type of person that says, Andrea, I actually like to meet other people? And here’s
Andrea (24:08)
Yes
Jason (24:09)
and here’s an example. I’m envisioning I’ve hired you, you’re my private guide. And maybe my spouse and I were sitting at the lodge one night. There’s another couple there. They seem pretty cool. They seem really interested in digging through elephant poop or honey badgers. And
Andrea (24:24)
Yeah. Yes.
Jason (24:26)
and but they’re going with the lodge’s guides the next day. And I say, Hey.
Why don’t you come join us? Hey, Andrea, can they come with us so we can, you know, connect with them as well? Does that type of thing happen? How do you deal with outgoing extroverts? I guess is what I’m asking you.
Andrea (24:43)
So
mixing during the activities, that becomes a little bit complicated because of course, maybe
Jason (24:47)
I’m sure.
Andrea (24:48)
these persons you meet at the lodge have booked with another tour operator, with another guide, and they have their own itinerary. And it’s
Jason (24:52)
Yeah. Uh-huh.
Andrea (24:56)
a challenging question, but I thank you for that. Because actually, social times are very important.
So the person that says, I’m outgoing. I don’t know if I want to stay alone all the time. OK? That’s.
Jason (25:08)
Just with you, Andre.
You seem like a nice guy, but
Andrea (25:09)
Yeah, just with me. Yes. Yeah, thank you. But yes,
I get that. It’s it’s not like that. I mean, you have time to spend in the lodge, you have time to spend in the camp. OK. And socialize and sharing your ideas, sharing your experiences with other travelers. And I actually encourage that way at the fire around the fireplace. We usually you can get some drinks and snacks and then you can discuss what what happened to you.
today, what happened to you, mean what happened to be for you the safari, so what experiences you live today and we share stories. So storytelling is another very important part of guiding and I usually love that part of guiding around the fireplace where you can see the stars, the Milky Way, it’s unbelievable in the bush and not only the Milky Way, all the constellations, you can see meteors,
so you can actually meteorites and you can see the shooting stars. Okay, let’s call it like that. And we can dig into that star, star safari as well by socializing with other people. And I usually invite people to do that because as a species, we are social species. So it’s so nice. And I’m gonna tell you one thing.
When you come on safari, of course the first thing you’re gonna remember is the first lion you see, the first elephant you see. These are very interesting animals and for me they are absolutely the top-notch things to see. But there so many other things you can actually discover throughout, they will blow your mind. But one thing you will remember a lot…
is that moment at the fireplace with the shooting star, that moment in which I’m relaxing, I’m having my drink, whatever drink is, it’s up to you. And you’re looking up with a nice conversation with your guide and other people you met throughout. And then you just relax and all the tension goes away from your back. You look at the sky and you put into perspective.
And this is the moment that’s teaching to your memory.
as well as, for example, the sounds you will have throughout the night, the lions roaring, the hyenas calling, and all of these things you will remember because they have an emotional component that will stick into your memory much stronger than the location of where you saw the first lion. The first lion remains in your memory, but the location will go away after a few months, sometimes years, that depends on how…
how people can memorize things, but they will forget,
Jason (27:46)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (27:46)
they will confuse the location, while the emotion will stay and stitch there for a long, time.
Jason (27:53)
You’re right, because I can I can in my mind see something I saw, you know, some lions resting and the elephants were approaching and they they spotted the lions. The elephants made a lot of sound and those lions got up and ran. And it was just
Andrea (28:10)
Yeah.
Jason (28:10)
and i I remember the emotion of it. I honestly I don’t remember where the where we were. I’ve I’ve traveled around, you know, I’ve been I was fortunate to go a few places. I don’t remember where it was.
Andrea (28:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (28:20)
I don’t
I don’t but I remember the emotion of it. So
Andrea (28:23)
Yes.
Jason (28:23)
so you’re right. And that’s I do want to ask you, and I don’t know if you’ve worked for other operators, you’ve been a private guide booked through DMCs, you’ve you’ve done a bunch of different things. You worked at lodges. when I I managed to lodge in Belize for a while and for quite a while.
And we’d have it was a fishing lodge. So every, you know, the anglers all had their own guides, their own guides booked through the lodge. But my point
Andrea (28:47)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jason (28:49)
is they’d come back in the evening and the conversations would start about, well, how was your fishing today? And fishermen are not a good example because they tend to count things way more than they should, in my opinion. You know, but it’s like Yeah, it’s it’s
Andrea (29:00)
Yes, that’s direction of the fishermen.
Jason (29:05)
like I love fishing, I love fishermen, but I you know
Only there were so many nights at the lodge where I’m just sitting there listening to guys giving their fish counts. Well, we caught thirty-four. Well, we only caught two. Well, where did your guide take you? Well, and then they’d come to me, Jason. I don’t know about our guide. You know, maybe we need to switch guides and da-da-da. And so there’s a lot of competition and those issues
Andrea (29:27)
Yeah.
Jason (29:27)
with guides because the the guy that caught two might have caught two really special big fish out on the flats, shallow water, got to spot
Andrea (29:34)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (29:34)
them, got to target them, and the guys that caught
Andrea (29:36)
Yeah.
Jason (29:36)
thirty-four.
Stood on the front of the boat and fished in a mud hole all day. But by the time they get back to dinner, it’s like all of those subtleties and and nuances are left. I’m curious, in your experience working around the lodges and being around guests when they’re coming back, do you have some insights that you’re willing to share? And I’m not trying to call you out on anything, but do you have some in sh insights on what that’s like as a guide to listen to people talk about their guides and and you’re just like
either rolling your eyes or just thinking, my gosh, they clearly didn’t understand what was happening today or d or is that even an issue? Or maybe we should discuss this when we’re not recording. I don’t know.
Andrea (30:11)
Yeah, no, no, what? No, don’t worry, don’t worry.
I’m very open about that. So the issues you actually presented are between the competition. Can kick in at any moment.
Because we are in a very highly competitive society nowadays. So
Jason (30:30)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (30:30)
it’s not something that the person himself or herself does. Between how many lions did you see today? I’m switching into lions this time instead of fish. How many lions did you see? How many kills
Jason (30:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. It’s kinda like fish.
Andrea (30:43)
did you see? How many things? And these are all set by expectations.
Jason (30:47)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (30:47)
Expectations are like your mind is going forward.
expecting something that will happen because yeah I’m here and it should happen, all right?
Jason (30:57)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (30:58)
So what I would like to focus the attention on is that people sometimes come with too many expectations and they miss the experience.
So what is usually happening is that I’m explaining them that of course you are here and all of these things are possible. Can you see a kill? Yes, you can. Will it happen as soon as you land? Maybe not. It might not happen that you would like to see the leopard, for example. Sometimes it’s not possible. It’s not around. But that doesn’t diminish the experience because the experience is the…
the possibility of being open and seeing things there. So these environments, environments, outdoor environments, environments, especially African, African bush, but not only the bush is a type of where I’m guiding. I am, I’m guiding in forest, I’m guiding in mountains, I’m guiding in the bush, I’m guiding also under the sea.
Jason (31:57)
okay.
Andrea (31:57)
So the…
The possibility of seeing things is the excitement of the explorer, the unknown. Will I see that? Perhaps yes. Can I prove to you that you will see the Rhino at 12 o’clock on a Tuesday? I can’t. Okay? So I cannot promise you anything, but I can promise you, you will have a great experience because it’s all about the experience.
with a change of perspective because
Jason (32:25)
I sush.
Andrea (32:28)
I’m putting you into a point of view that you haven’t considered before.
sometimes guiding deeper and so going deeper into the knowledge with science sometimes just getting you your time to actually resonate with what you see and finding your own path so one of my best way of explaining what i do is by my claim so with Pompele Safari with me Andrea okay because i’m a physical
person, okay, I’m not just an entity, I’m a physical person. Nezha is not AI, he’s not AI. Exactly.
Jason (33:00)
Mm-hmm. This is not AI. This is not an AI generated podcast conversation.
Andrea (33:07)
You explore deeper and you’re finding your path. The path is yours. How much you want to explore is about you. It’s not about me. I am the one that facilitates that with my experience.
Jason (33:23)
I suspect that you’ve done a great job of expl of kind of sharing the benefits, the advantages to the people traveling with you, but I want to touch kind of on your personal experience because you know your life is important too. Your your enjoyment
Andrea (33:38)
Yes.
Jason (33:39)
of life, your your sense of fulfillment is important as well. And I imagine the pr when we discussed what it is you do that’s different than the t then maybe.
Some people book a safari and they don’t meet their even if they’ve got a private guide, they don’t meet the private guide until they get out to a camp somewhere. They haven’t talked to the private guide. The the guest was all expectations were set by somebody else, I guess is what I’m saying.
Andrea (34:04)
Yay.
Jason (34:05)
They were set by the travel agent in Milwaukee, who’s maybe been to Africa a couple times. Maybe not. I don’t know. Who knows?
Andrea (34:11)
Yes? Yeah.
Jason (34:13)
And then the tour operators on the ground that are doing the webinars for the travel agent in Milwaukee to explain what to expect. And all this stuff, all the expectations are set. And then they show up the first morning and hey Andrea, nice to meet you. We’re so excited to see the leopard kill at eleven o’clock this morning. Can’t wait. And you’re like, okay. So you just kind of take what you get in a sense. And I know you’re savvy enough with people to.
To still make it a great experience. But when you’re involved with it from the beginning and you’re talking about elements like air and what we’re gonna do to connect, I just imagine that people just show up and you’ve got the first night, maybe the first evening, you pick them up at the hotel, you presumably do some sort of briefing about what you know, what’s happening and have dinner with them. I don’t know. But I suspect
Andrea (35:01)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (35:02)
it’s for you, it’s probably a little easier and just maybe more enjoyable.
When you’re involved in setting expectations instead of being the one that whose job is to meet the expectations that other people set? What do you think?
Andrea (35:13)
Yes,
yes. So for me, a very important thing is everything starts with a conversation before and the development of the itinerary or the choice of the location.
It depends on what I see from the people I’m working with. Of course, as I said, it can be also B2B, a business to business. So
Jason (35:31)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (35:33)
an agent or a operator contacts me and says, are you free and available to guide privately these guests? But you have no…
no say of what the itinerary will be. And I say absolutely yes, as long
Jason (35:44)
Yeah, yep. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (35:47)
as I can have a brief conversation with the guests before they come in to
Jason (35:51)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea (35:53)
let them know who I am.
to let them know what is going to be, and to reply to their questions as well. Not to substitute myself to the agent or to the tour operator. They trust, absolutely. But we are living, and you mentioned AI before. So we are living in a very hyper-technological society nowadays. And people are losing a little bit the trust.
with other people without knowing them. So what I want to do is to flip the conversation around. I am here, I’m a physical person and you can see me and
Jason (36:26)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (36:27)
you will feel me and as I do feel you and see you then we establish already a connection.
Jason (36:34)
Right.
Andrea (36:35)
When this happens everything unfolds just naturally.
Jason (36:39)
You know, I know there’s a lot of subtleties, and I know that you can make the argument many different ways, but what I wanna posit is let’s just say the travel agent Milwaukee. a lot of travel agents, a lot of tour operators on the what we call the outbound side, they’re the ones that set things up maybe in the US, but then they’ve got their partners on the ground.
Andrea (36:59)
Yes.
Jason (36:59)
Oftentimes oftentimes people in our industry are very reluctant to let a guide
Or an on-the-ground operator speak directly with the clients, which
Andrea (37:10)
Yes.
Jason (37:10)
I’ve I kind of understand because they like to control the communication so that somebody doesn’t say, well, so-and-so told me this, well, so-and-so told me that. I get that part of it. But there’s the part of it that’s like, Well, I don’t want them talking to the guide because this is my relationship with these people. But then as soon as they
Andrea (37:29)
Yay.
Jason (37:30)
arrive in the country, the guide shows up, meets them at the airport, and spends ten days with them.
traveling around Africa and discussing life issues
Andrea (37:38)
the time.
Jason (37:38)
and and connection and all this stuff. So I I’ve always wondered I’m like, well geez, you know what? If you’re doing a good job, your clients are going to connect with the guide at some point. So
Andrea (37:49)
Yes.
Jason (37:49)
why are you so afraid that they’re gonna connect with the guide before they get there? I don’t know. do you have thoughts on that?
Andrea (37:55)
Yes, so I’m a big fan of collaboration more than competition. Competition is a good thing until it’s done, till a certain point. Then
Jason (38:03)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (38:04)
sometimes competition can lead to this jealousy, okay?
Jason (38:08)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (38:08)
And, okay, you’re stealing my client, he’s doing this, you shouldn’t say that. Okay, no problem. But from my point of view, I believe the world has been built by collaboration.
Jason (38:19)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (38:20)
and
collaboration gets everyone a long, long, long way. And for me…
For me, the role that I have is actually, as you said, I will spend 10 days, two weeks, maximum 21 days, because I divided into three steps, more or less, three
Jason (38:37)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (38:37)
types, a 10 days safari, a two weeks safari, and a 21 days safari, which is the original hunting safari they were doing in the previous century.
Jason (38:50)
Before you
go any before you go any further, somebody’s gonna wonder if you do hunting safaris. So let’s okay. Just wanna put that.
Andrea (38:54)
I don’t do anti-safaris. It’s just a format
in terms of time.
Jason (39:01)
Yeah, I I got what
you were saying. I just somebody’s had just triggered, maybe it was mine, that’s like,
Andrea (39:05)
No, it’s good.
Jason (39:06)
do you do hunting spares as well? ‘Cause but it so I just wanted to ask that before we went on.
Andrea (39:11)
Yeah, no, no problem. And so the time I spend with the guest is basically all day long. So a guide can make or break your safari. If you have the right guide, even if you don’t see what you expected to see,
you will have a great experience because you might actually discover that something else you will see which is actually even more wondrous than what you expected before. But if you have a bad guide, you can see wonderful stuff and then having a, you know, how was the, what was the experience? Nice, but I won’t do it again. So the enthusiasm.
Jason (39:48)
Yeah. And sometimes and sometimes you
and sometimes you can’t even put your finger on it. Sometimes it’s obvious when you’ve got a guide that’s a
Andrea (39:54)
Yes.
Jason (39:55)
pain in the ass. You know, sometimes it’s obvious I get it. But there this there’s other times where the guide’s pleasant enough and you you can’t even put your finger on I’m not sure, it just kind of feels meh. and you say, Well, why was it meh? And you’re Well, I don’t know, I don’t even know how to explain it. But then when you’ve got the good guide
that you’re like it’s like, ooh, that’s really obvious. It’s it’s like a totally different experience and and it’s easy to put your finger on that. It seems like it anyway. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (40:24)
Yeah, and it clicks, so everything
clicks. And so when everything clicks, it just unfolds. So what I usually say, you have to have a little bit of patience and open
Jason (40:35)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (40:36)
mind. And with patience and open mind, the wilderness unfolds its secrets to you.
Jason (40:43)
Okay, we’re gonna get into your history and figure out how you got from what you know, northern Italy to to what you’re doing now. and maybe this is a good segue, I don’t know, but here’s the thing. Anybody watching this or listening to it probably figures out that
You didn’t spend as much time as a child, and maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you didn’t spend as much time as a child in Africa as some of the guides working for the camps and the lodges that that grew up there. You maybe look and sound a little different than what people might envision as an African safari guide. So and this is gonna come out of your history, I guess. Here’s where I’m going with this, because you mentioned competition. you
Andrea (41:23)
Yes.
Jason (41:24)
are familiar with and work in a lot of different areas. So I
Andrea (41:27)
Yes.
Jason (41:27)
can imagine a scenario you show up with your clients at a camp in Tanzania and
Andrea (41:34)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (41:34)
most of the guides there are from Arusha
Andrea (41:37)
Tanzania.
Jason (41:38)
or they grew up somewhere in Tanzania. That’s,
Andrea (41:40)
Yes.
Jason (41:41)
you know do you get some pushback there? What do you want our what do you want our listeners to know about
What that’s like when they show up at a camp with a guide from Italy. Do they get frowned upon? Does it create tension? Is it just part of the normal deal? What would you like them to know? People that have never been to Africa and can’t and can’t get their head around what that might be like.
Andrea (42:00)
Yeah, so there are two aspects to of course consider. The first aspect is that I am not from Africa and that’s a fact, okay? Not from, but do I belong where I come from? I don’t believe so. So this can be a little bit philosophical, but I am a citizen of the world, okay?
So no matter where I am, the way I do things is actually very well perceived with open arms. And this is because another point of view to consider is that especially in Africa, people are very warm. People are very gentle. People are very nice. And
Jason (42:38)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (42:39)
many of guests that are coming on safari, they find out, wow, people are very nice here. I mean, of course they are.
And you know, when you present yourself in a way, then you receive feedback. And the tension goes away immediately, the way I present myself, because I’m not here to rule. I’m here to add my experience as I am, simple as I am, and in a way that is actually benefiting everyone.
So, of course, I can find out some people might say, yeah, why this guy from Italy is there doing these things, why they should be locals, okay? They are, I’m never alone, I’m collaborating with them. With me, there’s always a local, first. Second, I’ve spent enough time.
in Africa and Africa is a big continent by the way, okay, it’s the second biggest continent so simplifying Africa is a little bit of a mistake, all right, no, no, from you, for our listeners, for our
Jason (43:38)
Yeah, I yeah, I get that. Thank you. Thank you for bringing it up. No, you’re right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (43:43)
audience and so there are cultural aspects about that that I really, really know because I visited more than 18 African countries, sorry, not visited, I explored, I spent time and I spent time in the bush
I lived in the bush with people from the places I’ve been exploring.
So we share things, we understand one another, and we have a common language, which is actually the love for the wilderness. And when you have the love for the wilderness, there’s no boundaries, there’s no differences, because we are all one, doing with the same goal, and we can enrich one another through conversations and experiences.
Jason (44:25)
curious what you think because I I get that and
This is what I’m gonna mention is not a suggestion that local guides aren’t amazing. Guides are guides are either amazing, they’re they can be amazing, not all of them,
Andrea (44:34)
No, no, they are, they are amazing. They are.
Jason (44:37)
but it but the same thing is guides from outside can be amazing or not so amazing as well. It that
Andrea (44:43)
Yes.
Jason (44:43)
that’s not the key distinction here.
Andrea (44:46)
Yeah.
Jason (44:46)
And what I’ve noticed, I’ve spent time with a lot of guides doing a lot of different things in a lot of places.
For some reason, it seems like oftentimes, I’m trying to I’m really hedging my bets here because I know that we’ve got a diverse list of people listening to the to the podcast, but sometimes
Andrea (45:04)
Yes.
Jason (45:06)
the guide who came from another country originally is
Andrea (45:09)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (45:10)
a little bit more enthusiastic, a little bit more like
They’re there for reason. They chose to maybe, you know, the maybe the guy from Sweden who lives in Colombia and runs a tour
Andrea (45:20)
.
Jason (45:21)
operation business in Colombia. That guy fell in love with Columbia at some point. He’s not there
Andrea (45:25)
Yes.
Jason (45:26)
by accident. He came regardless, I don’t know the story, but he came and he’s like, my gosh, I love it. And probably wanted to absorb everything he possibly could about Columbia and decided to stay and opened a tour operation company, whatever.
My point being, and then there’s maybe other Colombians that are probably amazing guides, but they grew up there. You know, they’re they’re seeing the same scenery that they’ve been seeing their entire life. It’s can sometimes become it’s just part of my environment. I’d
A few. Some of them are super excited. Where I’m going with this is in my exper it’s it’s the same thing for me. When I I travel a lot, I travel full time. I show up at a new place and I want to see everything. I’m like, my gosh,
Andrea (46:08)
Yeah.
Jason (46:08)
I’m fascinated by literally everything. Like
Andrea (46:11)
Yes.
Jason (46:12)
if if I you know I’m I’m a single guy, I meet people and I might suggest a date, I’m like, hey, let’s go get empanadas on the street, because to me that’s super exciting. And then they’re like, what is wrong with you?
Andrea (46:21)
Yes, it is. So
the point is the approach. Is the approach, how you approach life. So for me, I mean, it’s, it’s not a job. It’s not a work. It’s my passion. I have it since I was born.
Jason (46:42)
That’s a good point.
Andrea (46:42)
And this
is what I do because I love to do. This is what I do best because I’m very great at it. Without arrogance, I’m great at it because I love it. Do I still have
Jason (46:51)
Well, that’s huge. Yeah.
Andrea (46:54)
to learn about things? Absolutely. And that keeps me going. That keeps me improving. Sometimes people in this industry…
go into the role of guiding because it is not their passion, but it is prestigious. It is good. It is socially great. It is a gold rush. So everyone
Jason (47:15)
Yeah.
Andrea (47:16)
wants to go there and be someone and make their name known. If that happens, I’m happy for them.
For me, this might be and should be a consequence of the love and the passion you put into it. So I put a lot of passion in what I do and this can be perceived. And usually that does not make a difference between locals or non-locals.
Jason (47:40)
Yes.
I
Andrea (47:41)
Because that’s
the point that might drive the conversation into, yeah, why should this guy from another continent stealing my job? It’s not that, okay? It’s more about what I am actually offering and how much passion I share with about what I’m doing right now.
Jason (48:05)
Well, I suspect so.
Prestige. I love that you mentioned that. Kind of that the social hierarchies. When I was in Belize, let’s say, you know, we had ten guides. And at the end of every week, you know, they’d come out for a week, spend the week with their clients fishing, and then on the last Friday night, they’d all get on the boat to go back to the city. So we were 30 miles offshore. So they’d get on the boat to go back to town. And
They’d come like all week they’re in their uniforms, they’re they look like fishing guides. And then on Friday night they come out, they got the Nike shoes on, they got the gold chains on, they got the nice watches on to get on the boat to go back to the city because when they get to the boat dock Friday night, their girlfriends are meeting them there. They’re, you know, they’re going straight to, you know, to go out and socialize or whatever. So and to be a fishing guide in Belize was a high status thing because they got paid better
Andrea (48:56)
Yes.
Jason (48:57)
than a lot of people.
Andrea (48:58)
Yes.
Jason (48:59)
they were dealing with people from the US, they would get tips, all that stuff. Where I’m going with that was a handful of those guides ri maybe they still dress the same on Friday night, but a handful of those guides really like to fish. They actually enjoyed their job. You know,
Andrea (49:12)
Yeah. Yes.
Jason (49:15)
they got the benefits of having the status job, but but they would get up earlier, they would tell their clients, hey, let’s get up a couple hours early because I know this spot, this thing, da-da-da-da-da.
And you could just tell. You could just I knew I was the manager. I knew which guides actually like to fish and which ones didn’t. so that’s to your point, is it doesn’t does it’s not a dependent on did you grow up here or not. That’s not the that’s not what makes the difference. But also I would suggest that maybe s someone from Italy that ends up being a private guide in Africa probably didn’t choose that job because it’s the best paying job in Italy.
Or or because
Andrea (49:52)
No.
Jason (49:54)
of the status or or the prestige that you get in Arusha when you go out go go out on the town on a Friday night and they’re like, you’re a guide here? Why you shouldn’t be, you’re not from here. It’s probably the opposite of prestige and status sometimes.
Andrea (50:08)
Yes.
So, what happened is that…
For me, from my point of view of course, is that passion is the drive. And then all the other social statuses that you actually mentioned, which are the benefits of being
Jason (50:22)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (50:24)
on that role, could apply depending on the situation where you are. Of course, exactly.
Jason (50:29)
where you are is so important. ‘Cause ’cause
I’ll tell you, when I when I told my family I wanted to be a guide and a fly fishing guide in Montana, they didn’t think it was that cool. You know, so the the the place is i is important, right? where if I yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrea (50:43)
Yes, the place is important indeed.
But the drive is what makes that guide that offers you the passion for the wilderness. It changes your perspective.
on your experience in the wilderness. So
Jason (51:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (51:04)
you mentioned fishing and that’s an outdoor activity with guides and it’s the same thing that can be comparable on a safari. The guide that actually shows the drive he has for and the passion he has for and
and make choices on a day to day life to offer you more not just because you pay for but because you connect with him or her, okay? Then he’s the guy that the entire, flips the entire conversation about and he’s the one that actually you will remember.
Jason (51:45)
Curious,
when I was I’ve done a few things, I’ve got a little ADHD, I’ve done a few things in my life. And one of them, you know, I had a hot air balloon ride business for several years. And on one level, it was, I kind of felt like it was kind of easy in a sense, because I told myself that if I’m having fun, they’re gonna have fun. And it sounds oversimplified,
Andrea (52:06)
Yes.
Jason (52:07)
but I would say 90% of the time.
That’s pretty much what it was. If I was flying in an area that I thought was fun, if we were flying it in a way that was fun for me, if I was having fun, they were gonna have fun. Every once
Andrea (52:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes.
Jason (52:22)
in a while you’d meet somebody that wanted to do something that I thought was boring. Okay, fine. I’ll do my best to make it fun for me too, because I’d believe that I had to have fun in order for them to enjoy it. So I’m curious, do you have kind of the same perspective or does it feel more like work?
Andrea (52:36)
Yes, no, no, I have the same perspective. So I’ve seen Impala’s million times, millions times. I’m still very happy to see Impala.
at all times. I’ve seen elephants, I’ve seen lions, I’ve seen all the kinds of animals you can see on safaris. Sometimes very close, sometimes a little bit further in different situations. And every time I have passion for, every time I’m enthusiastic
Jason (53:01)
Well let me let me
Andrea (53:03)
about. Of course, there are some things that are my personal interests and as yours, okay? And so you will have more fun with that and less fun with something else. Bye!
Jason (53:14)
Well let me ask
you this. Let me cause this
Andrea (53:15)
Yeah.
Jason (53:16)
is I I want to touch on this before we go any further. And I know we still need to get into your story, but
Andrea (53:20)
Yeah.
Jason (53:21)
what when I heard you saying that it it reminded me like so an example, there’s a particular type of fish that lives in the rivers in Montana where I was a fly fishing guide.
They’re not particularly hard to catch. They’re not particularly beautiful. They, in my opinion, don’t necessarily make the best fish pictures. But when I was with a client and they just caught their first fish on a fly and it was a white fish, it was
Andrea (53:50)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (53:50)
so friggin’ exciting. Cause they were exciting, you know, and I’m not,
Andrea (53:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason (53:54)
it’s only a white fish. I was like, hey, they’re into it. I’m into it. So what I guess I’m saying is I got.
I was much more excited to see a white fish when I had a client that was excited to see a white fish.
Andrea (54:06)
Yes, because this is what I call the transfer of enthusiasm that
Jason (54:11)
Yeah.
Andrea (54:11)
guests have and you should remind yourself as a guide all the time that for the guest maybe it’s the first time that happens.
Jason (54:19)
Yeah. And I would
I would be more excited. I I definitely came to a point where I was like, I’m more excited to watch someone else catch a fish than I am to catch it myself. Catching it myself is no big deal. But watching them
Andrea (54:29)
Yeah.
Jason (54:32)
catch it was so exciting. And I could like live through them. And people would say, isn’t this boring? You’re out here with us all day, but you’re not even fishing. I’m like, I am. I’m fishing through you. And it’s
Andrea (54:42)
Yes.
Jason (54:42)
actually more fun than fishing on my own.
Andrea (54:45)
Yes, so one of the most interesting points for my guiding process is when the guest is actually observing something without me saying anything and he is asking me why is like that and then you can give an explanation and the guest
start thinking about and the next time he is observing himself or herself something that you haven’t mentioned but you actually have given the clue at the beginning and then they process it and they see it and they understand it. So that’s
Jason (55:28)
Probably yeah.
Andrea (55:30)
more rewarding than actually giving you a lecture about it.
Jason (55:35)
When they start making the the connections, they’re like, hey, Andrea, so the reason this animal’s doing this is it’s kinda like the impala that you were talking about this morning. It’s got the same prey instinct and they’re making the connections without you having to point it out. Is that what you’re talking about? Yeah, that’s exciting.
Andrea (55:52)
Yes, because
it means that the previous conversation has been understood, internalized, processed and applied. And might
Jason (56:02)
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s very cool.
Andrea (56:04)
be correct or not, it doesn’t matter, the
Jason (56:07)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (56:08)
way the guest shows up in this
Jason (56:11)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (56:13)
process. So being a participant is the same thing about going on a walking safari.
participating in it is changing and the perspective on that, that will change throughout, will make an impression. And for me, observing this impression with the relationship with the guest is just so satisfying.
Jason (56:33)
Yeah, I can tell. I can see it in your face. Anybody that’s listening to this, hopefully you can hear it in his voice, but you should flip over to the to the YouTube version and and watch it on his face because I I see the passion. And you know, Andrea, typically when you meet your clients, probably the first night at dinner, probably pretty quickly, they’re like, Andrea, how the how the F did you get into this? How did you end up here in Africa, starting in Italy? and we’ve
We’ve been chatting for about an hour. We haven’t even touched on that. So if you don’t mind, let’s do that. Cause I I I know everybody wants to know. I know I want to know how did you get from northern Italy to where you are now? And I don’t know how far back we need to go. Usually when I ask somebody how far back do we need to go, they say, Well, COVID, or or they say, Well, when I graduated from university, but I’d like to go a little bit further back than that because I suspect there were things
Andrea (57:20)
Yeah.
Jason (57:21)
going on in your childhood that that had an influence. So how far back should we go?
Andrea (57:26)
We should go a couple of generations back,
Jason (57:28)
awesome. That’s wow. You get you get a prize for that.
Andrea (57:30)
So.
Jason (57:33)
Love it.
Andrea (57:33)
So I have a
pretty unusual story that I would like to share with you and it’s
Jason (57:37)
Yeah, please.
Andrea (57:37)
the story of my family because that defines me as well. So
Jason (57:41)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (57:42)
first of all, let’s talk about me and then we go a little flashback about that. So I’m coming from a mountainous area in northern Italy, as I mentioned before, which is called Aosta Valley and is on the border between France, Switzerland and Italy, where the four giants are. These four giants are the four
or igus peaks of the Alps and they are the Mont Blanc, the Matterhorn, the Mont Rose and the Great Paradise. And my childhood I spent a lot and a lot of time in the mountains, in the outdoors, in this beautiful, beautiful but very tiny, small little region,
Jason (58:22)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (58:22)
literally 25 kilometers from France and 20 from Switzerland.
But my actual passion for outdoors and nature comes from before. And that’s the flashback into my family history. Would you like to know?
Jason (58:37)
All right.
Yeah, of of course. I usually have to dig and ask the questions, but you see you sound like you have pretty clear connection with where it all came from. So I guess before yeah, yeah. I mean, really what the question I want to ask you right now though is what was it like growing up in a small region presumably a small town in this region
Andrea (58:56)
Yes.
Jason (58:57)
surrounded like by some of the biggest, most impressive mountains in the world, what was that like growing up there?
Andrea (59:03)
Yeah, it was nice. It was very nice.
Jason (59:05)
Sounds really nice. You know what? It
sounds nice, but I also know a lot of people grow up in places that sound amazing and they can’t wait to get out of there. So
Andrea (59:15)
And as well I did. As well I did. So
the town is a pretty small town, 100,000 more less, and the region itself is very less populated. The mountains are steep and big at all. And so there’s not much space. Although there is a lot of space outdoors. If you don’t like outdoors, you’re going to struggle with that.
Jason (59:39)
Ha ha.
Andrea (59:40)
But
I am an outdoor guy since I was a kid. So I grew up basically all the time outside during the winter time. Now we do not have any more the winters with a lot of snow. But when I was a kid, actually, yeah, one meter of snow was kind of normal. So you can go going skiing everywhere. You can go in playing in the snow during winter time, of course, and during summertime
Jason (1:00:04)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:00:04)
you have more
some of the most beautiful scenery around with these forests and these prairies in altitude, as well as glaciers and peaks to climb. So I did everything I
Jason (1:00:16)
Kate. Do you did you have
Andrea (1:00:18)
could do to make my mom very worried about my safety.
Jason (1:00:23)
That’s
where I was gonna that’s where I was going with this was first off, did you have siblings growing up a similar experience to you or Okay.
Andrea (1:00:30)
No, I am the single child.
Jason (1:00:33)
So now I’m gonna ask you about your parents, which is gonna presumably take us back to your grandparents.
Andrea (1:00:37)
Yes.
Jason (1:00:38)
so usually when a young child spends a lot of time in the mountains, it’s because someone in their family has inspired them to do so. So were you spending
Andrea (1:00:47)
Yes.
Jason (1:00:48)
Both parents, what was what was that like? Why r why were you out in the mountains skiing and and hiking and doing all that stuff? Other than there was nothing else to do.
Andrea (1:00:56)
you
Yeah,
we did. yeah, my family comes from different backgrounds. So I would like to introduce that. have a very big both of my parents had a very big influence of my my love for nature and what I have chosen to do in my life after after the ripe age of 18 years old.
Jason (1:01:17)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:01:18)
So not ripe, but yeah. Yeah. 18 years.
Jason (1:01:22)
You felt you
Andrea (1:01:23)
choose myself. You feel like it. Finally I’m free.
Jason (1:01:23)
felt like it when you were eighteen. I know. You’re like, Yep, I’m a I’m a grown man now. Yeah, I know everything. huh.
Andrea (1:01:30)
The point is that I think, know, that comes back to my parents and also to my great grandparents and my great grandparents. So as I grew up in the mountains, of course, I was surrounded by other people and my family and
At some point when you start understanding things, you ask some questions. So you ask your mom, what is that actually carving on that thing we have in the house, where it comes from? And you’re playing and you look at these things and then the stories are actually flowing and they’re actually explaining you.
For example, the family of my grandparents from my mother’s side, they lived in India in the 50s when my mother was born. In an area of India, there was not India yet. was now is very known, very well known for many reasons. It’s called Goa and now is known since the 90s for…
parties, techno parties, psytrance music and before that in the 60s, 70s because of the hippies movement and the Beatles.
Jason (1:02:35)
Okay. All right.
Andrea (1:02:35)
But previously
to that, when my mother was living there, that was not part of India yet. There was still a colony, and not from the British government, but it was a Portuguese colony. And my grandfather was working for these Portuguese government officials. it was Italian. No, no, it was Italian.
Jason (1:02:52)
Was was he was he Portu he was Italian. Okay. All right.
Andrea (1:02:56)
So all my family is from Italy.
and he was working there and he transferred his family in a sort of a very remote rural area very very similar to what you could call a jungle book era okay
Jason (1:03:12)
Yeah, right. Okay.
Andrea (1:03:13)
so my mother was going to the school crossing the jungle
And by crossing the jungle means you have to avoid a certain kind of dangers.
Jason (1:03:21)
Ti tigers? Yeah.
Andrea (1:03:24)
So more than tigers, which were around, because actually my grandfather was going hunting tigers with the Marajan.
something that feels very distant, okay? And it was like that, by the way. My mother was going to school and then, yeah, sometimes there were elephant crossings. Sometimes there were monkeys playing on the road and then blocking. So she was going up the trees and then not able to come down because there was animals around.
Then they moved from there, the revolution came and they were protected by the locals because they were actually very nice towards people. So the locals said, okay, we’re gonna protect you but you have to evacuate. And they brought…
Jason (1:04:06)
How how old was she when
when they left? Do you know? Eight, okay, all right.
Andrea (1:04:09)
She was eight years old,
or ten years old, something like that. She spent almost eight years, nine years there. And then she came to Italy with total shock, total cultural shock, of course.
Jason (1:04:22)
I can imagine.
Andrea (1:04:23)
Because from eating a papaya, which is that size,
Jason (1:04:26)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:04:27)
and the mangoes and other tropical fruits that were there and dealing with barefoot everywhere,
Jason (1:04:35)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:04:35)
to actually being at school in Northern Italy and that was a very big thing. But all the stories came throughout the years and actually inspired me so much. So the part of my mother actually inspired me freedom and exploration of tropical countries.
Jason (1:04:52)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:04:53)
While my dad
My dad, he was a professor of French literature because in my hometown we also speak French. I speak several languages, actually six languages I speak. So I grew up…
Jason (1:05:07)
wow. Jeez. That’s a whole nother conversation. Wow. Yeah.
Andrea (1:05:12)
I grew up bilingual in French and Italian, and then I had English, Spanish, Portuguese, and of course, Kiswahili as well. And I can greet people in different tribal languages when I’m in the bush.
But that’s for another story, okay? I have a very good sense of hearing, so the rhythm comes to me very easy. My father, was a French literature professor at school. He didn’t know anything about science. My mother doesn’t know anything about science.
but they transfer me from one side the freedom of exploration and on the other side the love of the aesthetic value of nature. So I
Jason (1:05:54)
Okay. Did you
Andrea (1:05:56)
was going… Sorry.
Jason (1:05:59)
I was gonna ask before you came around, I guess I’m curious how you’ve got the French literature guy and
Andrea (1:06:07)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:06:08)
the the young lady who her f many formative years were in Goa.
Andrea (1:06:15)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:06:15)
How did they connect and what similarities and values and stuff? Just give me a little bit of an idea of what they were as a couple. Did did was your dad ex
into exploration. He was into culture, obviously, but I’m just kinda curious what were they like as a couple. We don’t have to go into all the details, I don’t
Andrea (1:06:31)
Yeah,
my dad is not into exploration, but he loves deeply the mountains.
Jason (1:06:42)
Okay.
Andrea (1:06:43)
He loves deeply mountains because he recognizes a certain aesthetic value into the environment.
He doesn’t recognize one type of tree from another one, okay? He confuses them
Jason (1:06:53)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:06:53)
all the time with the scientific names. But it’s okay. But when I was a kid, I grew up with these stories of distant lands and with this practical exploration within the mountains with my dad. So my dad was carrying me around and…
I was very patient because I was a kid that always wanted to go further, further and further. So why? Because I wanted to know what was behind that mountain, what was
Jason (1:07:27)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:07:28)
above that thing, what was just aside of that to change my point of view. And that’s the thing.
Jason (1:07:35)
D do you remember
at when you were young, cause sometimes it’s like people want to get to the top out of a sense of accomplishment, or they want to get over out of a sense of physical pushing and or they want a view, or they’re just like, who knows what’s round the corner, is what I kind of heard you say. It could be a little marmot or a little critter or a little something something. So what
Andrea (1:07:57)
Yeah.
Jason (1:07:57)
what do you th was that what was driving you? Was the curiosity for animals and
Nature that you might
Andrea (1:08:03)
Yes.
Jason (1:08:03)
see?
Andrea (1:08:04)
Yes, the curiosity was for animals because I loved them at the beginning. At the beginning of my life, I immediately loved them. But not only I was interested in all living things, all small living things. I climbed mountains and I climbed in my career mountains. It is never for me the achievement of going to the top. For me is when I am from the top.
I can see the next. I can see
Jason (1:08:32)
Yeah. Okay.
Andrea (1:08:34)
what I cannot see when I’m on this side.
So I’m going to the top and then I’m expanding my view. I’m expanding my horizon. Then on the top, change your
Jason (1:08:46)
Change your perspective. Yep. Yep.
Andrea (1:08:48)
perspective, say from the top, I can choose the next destination. And the next destination implies maybe I have to climb back from the same going around and do another mountain or maybe explore that plane that is there.
Jason (1:09:02)
Do you know do you know why I this this came up because it’s part of why I had a hot air balloon ride business and the tagline or the the subheading on my website was see the world from a different perspective. And
Andrea (1:09:15)
That’s good.
Jason (1:09:16)
and and oftentimes when I was flying, I would like fly over a mountain and I’d be like, Isn’t this great? We get to see this, but we didn’t have to climb it. So so we get because I was very much about just seeing things from a different angle.
Andrea (1:09:28)
Yeah.
No, but it’s not that actually. It’s good that you mentioned that because there are different ways of seeing different point of view.
So for me climbing the mountain is never about the sport to get there quicker, faster and more effective. For me
Jason (1:09:43)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:09:43)
is the journey to get there, exploring, seeing, observing, recognizing beauty is what my father teach me. Recognizing beauty in any corner, in a forest, in a prairies, in a hole in the ground in which you know that the Marmot will live.
in
Jason (1:10:01)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:10:01)
a subtle movement of the wind that tells you okay here there’s something hidden so when i was a kid that was normally normally done in the mountains now i would
Jason (1:10:13)
Was there a point
Andrea (1:10:14)
do it in another environment but i still love mountains that’s for sure
Jason (1:10:17)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Was there a let me ask you this way. If I had a time machine and I was able to go back and meet Andrea when he was I’m gonna say twelve, we can adjust the age a little bit as necessary, but if I were to go back and meet you when you’re twelve, and I’m like, hey buddy, what do you want to do when you grow up? Do you did you have an idea already in mind or was there a point in
Andrea (1:10:39)
Yes.
Jason (1:10:40)
your in your early years where you decided I wanted to be X, Y, or Z?
Andrea (1:10:45)
Yes, I wanted to become an And
Jason (1:10:48)
Okay. Yeah.
Andrea (1:10:50)
somehow I did. Somehow I am. Yeah, I’m
Jason (1:10:51)
You d yeah, you did.
Andrea (1:10:54)
not an explorer in terms of extreme environments or in places nobody has been before. Or an explorer that beats the record of climbing the Matterhorn on the north face in less time than the previous one. No, it’s not about that.
Jason (1:11:08)
Okay, but
but what happens when a twelve year old or fourteen year old do you remember was there kind of an age when it all clicked for you? Do you remember that?
Andrea (1:11:16)
Yeah, immediately
when I was three years old.
Jason (1:11:19)
Yeah. Okay. Well
my my the question I was gonna ask you won’t work for a three year old. So let’s fast forward to when you’re eight, nine, ten. And the question
Andrea (1:11:25)
Let’s do that. So I remember
my dad had a VHS recorder, which we’re talking about prehistory nowadays, but it was a VHS recorder
Jason (1:11:33)
I rem yeah, I remember those. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Uhhuh.
Andrea (1:11:36)
and he was recording for me documentaries when I was at school because he had a different timing. I couldn’t see them. And then in the evening we were looking at them together.
At some point I saw a documentary and I stopped everyone that was in the room with me, kind of alarmingly, and then I say, stop, stop, what is that? There, this is where I’m gonna be. And the documentary was on the Serengeti. And was the Bush.
because I kind of recognized, and that was since I was a kid, that I was interested in Africa as a continent. Not that I’m not interested in other continents, actually I would like to expand into the Americas and into Asia as well, because yeah, I like to explore. I don’t know if you actually got that, but…
Jason (1:12:19)
Yeah, yeah. I f I I
was picking up on that. I was gonna ask you about it, but yeah, it’s it seems like it. Do you remember
Andrea (1:12:26)
Yeah.
Jason (1:12:26)
the the specifics other than I heard documentary recorded on VHS, Serengeti, and I don’t know growing up in Italy if you had access to the same stuff we I I saw here, but it was like Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom or you know, David Attenborough type stuff. Do you remember the specifics
Andrea (1:12:43)
Yes.
Jason (1:12:44)
about the documentary?
Andrea (1:12:46)
Yes, there was a sort of documentary series made in Italy. actually changed the wording, so we translate. There
Jason (1:12:55)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:12:55)
was a sort of David Attenberg, Italian David Attenberg.
Jason (1:12:59)
Okay.
Andrea (1:13:00)
And then for me, that one and a couple of other TV shows in which they were explorers, actually real explorers. They went to the Arctic, they went to Antarctica and they climbed mountains. And I was looking at these shows like,
this is the most exciting way of living I could imagine to have. And it was the most exciting thing. was just like eating very quickly at dinner to be able to go and see that show because that show will get me so excited the next day. And
Jason (1:13:28)
Wow. Wow.
Andrea (1:13:29)
this is something that actually changed my perspective on life. And I decided then to…
But I’ve lived a million lives because I also did a lot of other things before actually moving into the wilderness.
Jason (1:13:43)
Okay, we’re gonna we’re gonna get to that and you said that you kinda figured it out at three, but how old do you think you were when you saw the documentary with the Serengeti? Rough roughly.
Andrea (1:13:53)
I would be like
six or seven years old, something like that.
Jason (1:13:57)
Okay, so I imagine
you go into school the the next day or the next week, or maybe a few years later someone sits down with you and says, Okay, Andrea, it’s time to talk about what you want to be when you grow up and you know that’s usually you know, math, science, whatever. Did you if you just said I wanna be an explorer I imagine people say, No, that’s not a job.
Andrea (1:14:19)
Yeah.
Jason (1:14:20)
That’s something you do after that’s
Andrea (1:14:21)
Yeah, well, actually.
Jason (1:14:22)
something you do after you have a career, make money, retire, and then you can go explore. I’m just curious what kind of response you got.
Andrea (1:14:26)
Yeah. So
the social environment was actually not that understanding. So as you said, okay, let’s call it like that, not that open. Because
Jason (1:14:37)
I know.
Andrea (1:14:38)
when I got into these documentaries, I started buying books.
and start enjoying it. So that’s one of the things that I did is that I dedicated my life to study nature, to understand it and enjoying it as well. And through the study of nature, I enjoyed it. So at the age of 17, when I wanted to actually deciding what to do in my life.
for the university, I decided to study biology because I wanted to become an ethologist. An ethologist is the scientist, the biologist that studies the behavior of animals because I was very interested in the behavior. Ethos means behavior. Ethology.
Jason (1:15:22)
What’s what’s the word I wanna make sure I got the word.
Andrea (1:15:25)
No,
Jason (1:15:27)
Not ecology, ethology.
Andrea (1:15:29)
not ecology. Ethology.
Jason (1:15:31)
Okay. All right.
Learning something new.
Andrea (1:15:33)
ethos
in Greek means behavior and logos means the discussion about the behavior. as and so I’ve studied evolutionary biology with the specialization in ethology in particular in primatology because I wanted to study the relationship with the behavior between between primates social and so the social learning of primates.
Jason (1:15:56)
Were you the at the whole point, the whole time you’re thinking this is how I’m gonna get to the Sangergetty? Okay.
Andrea (1:16:02)
No, no, no, no.
This is how I want to be connected with nature. I didn’t know I was ending up in the Serengeti at that time.
Jason (1:16:12)
Just wondering, because
you primatology makes sense. it it makes perfect sense for what you’re doing. I’m like, you could
Andrea (1:16:18)
Yes.
Jason (1:16:18)
not have you could have planned that. I don’t think you could have planned it any better, it sounds like. So all right. So you’re going to school
Andrea (1:16:22)
No, because life surprises you in so many ways. So…
Jason (1:16:27)
to learn to study ethology, primatology, and you actually did that. So look, walk us walk us through that and kind of what that looked like and and the next steps.
Andrea (1:16:36)
Yes, and then I took
a specialization also in ecology, which is the study of the organisms into an ecosystem that broadens your point of view as well into different patterns and different relationships that can be in an ecosystem. I worked then in Italy after that, but not in this field because, yeah…
Jason (1:17:01)
I think I know what you’re gonna say. I knew you were gonna say that. I’ve heard that once or twice. Yeah, yeah. What did you do?
Andrea (1:17:01)
It’s not so easy, all right? Yeah. It’s not so easy. you know,
you have to pay the rent. you find a job, find a very nice and respectable job. And then I work for some big companies, some of the biggest companies. And I was actually in sales and I was in the pharmaceutical
Jason (1:17:26)
okay.
Andrea (1:17:27)
industry.
Then, of course, in the meantime, I also had a family, okay? And so I was pretty much doing right, according with society.
Jason (1:17:39)
Yeah, how did you how
did you feel though? How did it feel to you?
Andrea (1:17:43)
It felt strange. My internal core was nature, was being immersed in nature. At some point I needed to follow the core.
I tried to figure it out what was going on and then I decided actually to take a leap and I started my career as a guide because guiding was the opportunity to actually stay on the field all the time. All the time, but majority of the time.
And to be immersed in the field and learning new skills, it’s a very important thing. learning, learning, continuously learning, and it’s the job of a guide. The job of the guide is not actually explaining only to people, but it’s actually learning more. Because
Jason (1:18:24)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:18:26)
only if you know, you can then transfer. If you don’t know, you cannot transfer. So you have to.
Jason (1:18:31)
Did you like
yeah, did you like the human part of it? Because you s if if I didn’t know any better, I’m just hearing animals, nature, be close to the animals, be close to the nature. But sales, you did sales, so sales can be an interesting, you know, you connect with people, right?
Andrea (1:18:49)
Connection, action, yeah.
Jason (1:18:51)
So I guess what I’m saying is when you like, okay, I wanna I I’m gonna do the guiding thing, was the people part of it
Plus a negative or just kinda whatever. I don’t care. I just want to be close to nature.
Andrea (1:19:02)
It is because what I usually say and that became part of my career later on into teaching the guides to be guides because I’m also a teacher of guides, a guide trainer. Knowledge is power but applied knowledge is true power and how you can apply knowledge by sharing it.
I can have the most immense knowledge here in my head if it doesn’t transfer to my mouth to another person. That’s useless. It’s useless.
Jason (1:19:31)
It’s juiceless. Just stays there.
So y okay, I’m gonna be a guide. You took a leave. Did you like, hey, peace out, I’m gone? Or is it like I need six months, I need a year? What was what did that look like?
Andrea (1:19:44)
More
less was I did not have a plan B. And
Jason (1:19:50)
I love it.
Andrea (1:19:52)
you know, sometimes you have to go out of your comfort zone to actually grow.
Jason (1:19:56)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:19:57)
Not having a plan B forces you to make the plan A working. And many people go back to the plan B because they have a plan B.
You know, it’s kind of a sort of like a mechanism of your mind because you have a plan B, you don’t put enough effort into the plan A.
Jason (1:20:13)
There’s always a plan B. Did you have you ever maybe it’s a a North Americ American continent, North America, South America? But I’ve heard stories of I think it was Cortez or somebody, it doesn’t really matter who it was, but that you know took the shipful of men to the island and and then they got on the beach and he ordered his men to burn the boats. Because there was we’re either gonna take this island or we’re gonna die trying it. There is no plan B. There are no boats to retreat to.
Andrea (1:20:39)
Yeah.
Jason (1:20:40)
It’s
you know, and it’s so I’ve often said, Okay, I gotta burn the boats here. It’s like get rid of that plan B so that I’ll put my effort into plan A. So I I appre I resonate with that. Yeah.
Andrea (1:20:50)
So everybody can see these kind of big pivoting shifts in their life through their own eyes. What I interpret about that is that I made it through. At the beginning it was not easy. And then, as you said, there’s also the component of being from elsewhere. So…
Jason (1:21:07)
Well, you had
a you mentioned something about having a family. I don’t know how much we want to get into that, but I wouldn’t be doing a good job if I didn’t ask how did that impact your family? What were people around you thinking? We don’t need to go into all the details, but I I wanna at least touch on that.
Andrea (1:21:22)
Yeah, it wasn’t it wasn’t an easy choice. OK, and it has been difficult, especially at the beginning. And at the beginning, as I said, there wasn’t wasn’t very straightforward. So I was coming, going, coming and going from one continent to another one. And then I stayed more. The fact that I stayed more allowed me also from a professional point of view or getting more exposed to the things to learn to make it through. And then I
work with my career like that. So the first time I actually put my foot in Africa was way before that but that was through a personal interest, a cultural interest and there was about music so I spent some time in West Africa to study rhythms of music.
Jason (1:22:07)
wow.
Andrea (1:22:08)
And then the second time, of course, was more from a study point of view. And then the third time was actually from a professional point of view. And then from the professional point of view, everything came together.
Jason (1:22:21)
Right. Did and your parents when you’re like, okay, I’m gonna go be a guide in Africa, they think that was cool? Was were they supportive? What what yeah, okay.
Andrea (1:22:30)
Yeah, they were supportive. They were supportive because
of course they knew me.
Jason (1:22:36)
They’ve known you s since before you were three
when you started talking about I want to go be an explorer. So yeah. They saw that one coming. It wasn’t a surprise.
Andrea (1:22:41)
Yes, they saw that coming and they
actually supported me.
by closing a couple of eyes, closing one eye, one side, and one eye the other side, when I did some things that they weren’t very happy about. when I started diving with sharks, when I did whitewater
Jason (1:22:59)
Yeah, uh-huh.
Andrea (1:23:01)
rafting in the Zambezi River, when I did bungee jumping off of the Huyges Tower in Uganda, when I took skydiving in the middle of the coast of the East Africa. So all these kinds of things.
And
then of course, when I started
Jason (1:23:15)
Yeah.
Andrea (1:23:16)
doing walking safari a long time ago.
Jason (1:23:19)
Maybe your parents are thinking, Maybe we should of
had one more kid just as an insurance against this one ’cause I don’t know if he’s gonna make it.
Andrea (1:23:25)
The good thing
is that they trusted me and I trusted myself as well in terms
Jason (1:23:30)
Yeah.
Andrea (1:23:30)
of taking a calculated risk. So that’s the point. So you can do everything and you can be on a cliff in the mountain or you can be in the desert. But you have to get the point of view that you are not so important.
And our ego inflates that so much.
Jason (1:23:49)
Ego kills a lot of people, too.
Andrea (1:23:51)
Yes, so fear is a very important component of it. So people with no fear, they usually die. I have fear, but I have no panic. So I know what I’m actually doing and I have skills that allow me to manage some situations that can be perceived as dangerous, but they are not.
They are not indeed dangerous, but they are potentially dangerous if I make the wrong move. But am I doing the wrong move? No. And so the bush, the mountains, the ocean and the desert, they have one thing in common. They demand respect.
And the respect comes from your behavior, in your own choices. Otherwise, all of these four big environments, can kill you in one second. Mountains, ocean, deserts and the bush. But when you approach it with respect, then you go inside.
and you find out some strengths, some skills, some things that you didn’t know you had. But they were there.
Jason (1:25:04)
I remember when I was learning to fly my fly balloons and then later I did paramotors for a while and it was but my dad when I was young, you know, he was teaching me to fly. He just I just remember him saying, I’m gonna say it the way he said it. Gravity doesn’t fuck around. You
Andrea (1:25:21)
Bye.
Jason (1:25:22)
know. So yeah. All right, because I know you’ve done a bunch of things in Africa and I wanna I wanna touch on some of the keys. I also want to be respectful of your time.
‘Cause
Andrea (1:25:31)
Yes.
Jason (1:25:31)
we’ve we’ve covered a bunch of things, but I’d love to just touch on the the key points that you think
we have to come back and and have a whole nother conversation. But what were those kind of key points as you moved through your career in Africa that kind of led you up to the point where you you’re like, okay, I’m a private guide. I want to work. I want to meet the clients at the airport, spend the whole time with them and have them experience one of the four, all four of the elements and all that stuff. So how did you get there?
Andrea (1:25:57)
Yeah, so I became a guide working for some companies and I became a guide trainer as well after I’ve been training myself for a long time. And I developed experience and I’ve been so privileged as well to be able to live in some of the most remote areas.
Pure wilderness. To mention something that we already mentioned before is the Serengeti. I lived for eight years in the Serengeti without having outside a house. So I was literally living in the bush all the time. And living in the bush, it means that you spend time with and you understand rhythms. You understand patterns. You understand things that actually give you the…
inspiration to do something later on different from what you have seen before.
Jason (1:26:48)
Right. And
and I wanna ask though, ’cause somebody that’s never been to Africa or somebody that well, I don’t know, you if you say I was living in the bush, we’ve all seen, you know, television shows like, you know, Naked and Afraid, Liv you know, or Survivor Alive and whatever. So I just wanna be clear, living on the bush didn’t necessarily mean you living underneath a tree.
Andrea (1:27:10)
No.
Jason (1:27:11)
you lived at
Game camps, Safari camps, stuff like that. What did
Andrea (1:27:14)
Yes.
Jason (1:27:14)
living in what does living in the bush mean to you?
Andrea (1:27:16)
Yeah, living in the bush it means that you are in an accommodation from a lodge or from a camp.
which in East Africa, especially in Tanzania where I was based for a long, long time, it’s unfenced. So you have to be careful over where you’re going and what you’re doing. But of course, you have water, you have electricity, you have a bed, you have food, and then of course, you have someone as well cooking for you. And that was actually a plus. The unfenced part of
is that you have to be careful when you wake up at 5.30 in the morning and it’s dark and you’re going down to open the main area and you know I’m Italian so usually I take an espresso first in the morning and the machine is down there and elephants are passing by or lions are passing by on the pathway and they’re crossing between the tents. Something is not dangerous because if you are in the tent you’re okay, you’re fine but if you are outside the tent
and you don’t know what to do, that could become potentially dangerous. Many times I had to do that. And this is actually, and then developing walking safaris throughout my career as well, and introducing walking safaris to the company I was working for before. That was not previously done. Refine some skills on observations, on attention. So it’s all about attention. Where do you put your attention?
is where you’re going to see things. But the informations are all around you. Either you see them or you don’t see them. They are there. So I usually say to the guides I train, so nature is a book. Everything is written in this book. Are you able to read? I am teaching you how to read the book of nature.
and then you will do. And so you will do trial and errors when you actually start reading at school. You will make mistakes, start writing down, you will make mistakes. It’s through the mistakes that you can actually learn. But the most important thing is to pay attention to what you do because this is the key.
Jason (1:29:27)
You you might what I hear you saying is in a sense is presence in the moment.
Andrea (1:29:33)
Yes.
Jason (1:29:33)
And I’m imagining you at a camp waking up in the morning to go have espresso. Y you’re pretty damn present the minute you walk out the door to walk right.
Andrea (1:29:43)
You have to.
Jason (1:29:44)
So eight years of living in a place where you gotta pay attention as opposed to somebody else that maybe I mean, it’s it’s kind of a meme, but you see people in the sea walking around
w looking at their phone as they’re you know, crossing the street in New York City or they’ve got their headphones in. the the person who lives in the suburbs that, it’s it’s Thursday night, I gotta take the trash out to the curb. So they run out in their bare feet, drag the trash can down to the curb and and listen into their their phone the entire time, completely oblivious to anything around them. So th it’s as opposed to growing up, yeah, like not growing up, but spending eight years I mean
I guess what I’m saying is it’s just like it almost seems like that environment forces you to be really present.
Andrea (1:30:30)
It does, because if you don’t do it, then you bump into
a buffalo at night and the buffalo has the exact color of the night and you won’t see it.
Jason (1:30:40)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (1:30:42)
And so the point is that as attention needs to be high on everything you do, some people nowadays will call it mindfulness.
Jason (1:30:54)
Mat yeah, exactly. That’s yeah, that’s Yep.
Andrea (1:30:56)
And that can resonate
with some people actually doing things by being present. Because if you don’t, you might not be present tomorrow. And it’s the same of climbing a mountain, climbing a mountain
Jason (1:31:03)
I mean if you took yeah, if you took Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (1:31:08)
or going into the ocean. And I am also a lover of the ocean and I go free diving and I go diving. And I had some situations in which you have to manage and you have to be present. You can’t just…
be elsewhere. Then of course with the experience these skills of being present and at the same time doing something else can coexist. So you can still think about things and being in your mind with your thoughts but be present at the same time. As I walk on a walking safari I can explain you some things. For example you mentioned the dung.
I can explain you the Elephant Dung and still listening to what’s happening and paying attention to what is happening around me. That bird call, that break on the grass, on the twig, that will tell me my attention needs to get there.
And these skills are complementary skills, they actually are growing up. I can say they are piling up one to each other and adding more of what you’re doing. So you’re able to actually do two things at the same time. So some people will say multitasking, multitasking is not real. OK, from that point of view, it’s just a fraction of a second paying attention to that sound instead of
what you are saying, but at the same time returning quick enough to isolate that that sound is not potentially dangerous and then
Jason (1:32:35)
Right.
Andrea (1:32:35)
come back to the conversation you’re having with the guest or finding out that that sound is actually important and so pausing and paying attention to what is going on there.
Jason (1:32:46)
Do you notice the difference like I recognize that you we’ve got people that are listening to to this conversation that either have traveled with you or will travel with you at some point in the future? But but honestly the question that comes to mind is when you get clients from wherever, from you know, Italy or from the US or France, and they show up, do you kind of like notice that they’re not really mindful or not really present?
In the moment, is there that mo like for the first few days, does it get better or is it just that they live in a totally different world?
Andrea (1:33:16)
Yes,
absolutely. Almost immediately it gets better when they understand what’s going on. Okay. When they see what’s going on and then where they are. About the first few hours, sometimes people have this is I recognize I’m a human being as well. So I have this tendency of taking the phone and checking and looking at it.
I’m not connected to the Wi-Fi. Well, this is actually the whole point. At the beginning is the people are struggling with and then they get into the flow and is a real state of flow, mental state of flow, being able to be present in the moment.
and be present in the moment doing a walking safari or a game drive or climbing the ruins or in mountains in Uganda or on going to the forest or going diving or free diving with the whales all these experiences when you can be present in the moment that’s the real luxury because
Jason (1:34:18)
Do you notice?
Andrea (1:34:19)
all the other things are distractions
Jason (1:34:21)
Yeah, yeah. Do you notice difference like for you when you travel you spent eight years living on the s in the Serengeti, and a lot of time in Africa, other places? I’m curious if you look at like the lodge, let’s say the camp staff, the people that are around you in the Serengeti, and
Andrea (1:34:38)
Yes.
Jason (1:34:38)
then you hop on a plane and you fly to Milan
Andrea (1:34:41)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:34:42)
and you start engaging with people in Milan, is there like a clear night and day difference? Not culturally, but just as far as
Mindfulness and presence. Do you feel like people that live in the cities that don’t have to worry about lions and tigers and bears and stuff? They just is there a difference?
Andrea (1:34:57)
Yes, but they have other worries.
So they have other worries to pay attention to. And
Jason (1:35:02)
That’s true. Yeah. That’s true.
Andrea (1:35:04)
what I feel is like usually when I spend lots of months in the bush, I have no screens, I have no advertising, I have no external constant city lights that are catching my attention.
screen time it is because of course you have to work on the computer you have to maybe
Jason (1:35:24)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (1:35:25)
watching watching some series on on a platform from times to relax watching your phone but not as much as when you are living in the city wherever you are so what happens is when i come back
to a big big town I am overwhelmed my senses which
Jason (1:35:41)
Not bad.
Andrea (1:35:42)
have been which have been heightened by the presence and attention and gets overwhelmed by all these stimuli all these simulations okay
Jason (1:35:52)
Uh-huh. Yeah.
Andrea (1:35:52)
around and
I have to pace myself because I look confused, like what’s going on? Have you ever been in a city? Yeah, very comfortable. I’ll make you an example. I’m very comfortable if I have to go to New York City, okay? Because I know mentally I set myself to be in New York City. And
Jason (1:36:10)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (1:36:10)
so I know everything is fast, everything is happening, which is okay.
Because my mindset is I’m going there, but still the first few hours is like, boom, it’s
Jason (1:36:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Andrea (1:36:23)
shocking. So your mind and your body needs to adapt to that. But when you can get this, you can also switch into modes in which from your stressful life. I have many guests, are executive businessmen or…
professionals that they have a very stressful life and they actually ask for this time off. They really want the time off. That time off is very important for them to be more effective on what they do when they have to come back on their own business. And
Jason (1:36:55)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Andrea (1:36:57)
the ability to actually switch between stress, stress, stress and relax your mind.
is what makes them successful.
Jason (1:37:07)
Yeah, that’s a it’s that’s a bigger task. Yeah, I it it has to be. Because if they can’t turn off, they’re gonna burn out or go have all kinds of relationship issues and all that other stuff. But anyway, Andrea, we’ve discussed so much I could just keep going for hours and hours and hours because I just I have so many questions I still want to ask. We’re definitely gonna have to come back and do this. But if you were
Andrea (1:37:28)
Yes.
Jason (1:37:28)
to pick a question, like if there’s one question or two or three that you really wish I’d asked, do you feel like I forgot to ask?
Or anything else ’cause I know we didn’t touch on everything, but what
Andrea (1:37:37)
Hmm.
Jason (1:37:38)
else maybe do you want our listeners to know before we wrap up about either you, your business, Africa, life in general, your grandparents, anything.
Andrea (1:37:45)
Yeah.
So one thing I would like to let people know, I operate into the entire continent. so when people or tour operators contact me for my services, I can actually go in many, places to different countries because I have explored them firsthand. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. Not only once, but extensively.
I have real experience of the things. And this is kind of an important point for me to actually underline. The rest has been a very pleasant conversation and then we went through most of the things that are important for me to present my story and it has been very nice actually. So I wish to thank you for that.
Jason (1:38:31)
th thank you. It’s my it’s my pleasure. And obviously we touched on a bunch of things and what I’d suggest to people that are listening that are excited to hear more is go spend ten days, two weeks, twenty one days exploring Africa with Andrea. You can have the you know as many conversations as you want every evening around the fire, that type of thing. Andrea, we’re gonna have your a link to your website in the show notes. So
Andrea (1:38:54)
Yes?
Jason (1:38:55)
and I would just encourage anybody that reaches out to Andrea.
Just say, hey, I heard John, you know, the the conversation you had with Jason. And then he’ll say, Hey, Jason, we we’re changing some lives here. It makes me feel good. there’s no commissions involved or any any crazy stuff like that. I just like to know that that we’re helping make this big world feel a little bit smaller. Andrea, thank you so much for being part of that. And I look forward to
Andrea (1:39:16)
Thank you.
Jason (1:39:17)
seeing you in Africa at some point.
Andrea (1:39:19)
Yes, you’re very welcome. Maybe we can go on a walking safari together.
Jason (1:39:23)
I l I love it. And we can dig through elephant poop and and see if we can find a honey badger
Andrea (1:39:26)
I’m looking at the sky.
Jason (1:39:28)
looking at the sky. You know, when I when I s said the that my element I mentioned air, I was really
Andrea (1:39:36)
Yes?
Jason (1:39:37)
I love that you got into the plants and oxygen and all this stuff, because I thought you’re just gonna, you know, probably say, well, you could go on a ballooning safari, you know, you can fly over the Serengeti in a balloon. But you took it, you it was much more interesting the way you responded.
So I love that. I r really enjoy you and
Andrea (1:39:50)
Thank you.
I would like to extend a little bit that thing about the balloon. Balloon safaris are amazing. I’m choosing, when people ask me to go on a balloon, I’m choosing some locations with some tour operators, which I know the impact is not…
that big. What I’m saying that is that I’ve noticed in some areas of Africa where over-tourism
is not happening but is gonna happen very soon and masterism is kicking. Some of these operators on balloons have a bigger impact into the environment. So I usually evaluate things because one of the things that I would like to actually underline again is that I am very conscious about the impact that we can have.
Jason (1:40:40)
Mm-hmm.
Andrea (1:40:41)
And for me is like I am,
to be as much as possible sustainable.
Jason (1:40:45)
Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And ballooning’s an interesting thing. I I recognize there’s operators out there that have really big balloons and that’s probably if you want to make money in ballooning, that’s what you do. I I’m I’ve I I had a much smaller balloon ’cause I was more interested in the experience than the money.
Andrea (1:40:59)
Another criticism is that
there are some situations in which the effect of flying a balloon that goes into the bush and lands in a random spot with the off-roading and impact on the environment, especially on ecological processes, they are actually there.
Especially if there are many operators and many balloons that makes it unsustainable, while if there are few of them that are doing things with ethical thinking, that could work.
Jason (1:41:35)
Do you do you notice ’cause I have a particular interest in it.
Andrea (1:41:38)
No, no,
Jason (1:41:38)
One one
thing I know about ballooning is th the burner, and this might be new to some people, but the burner has a very high pitch frequency to it that
Andrea (1:41:45)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:41:46)
is very disturbing for animals. If you ever go in a balloon and you’ll hear dogs barking, the dogs don’t even know what’s there, they just hear something weird. If you get too low over livestock or horses and stuff like that, it kind of freaks out. And I
Andrea (1:41:58)
Yes.
Jason (1:41:59)
suspect and I’ve seen videos of the balloons flying over, you know, wild beast herds and animals
Andrea (1:42:05)
It stresses them.
Jason (1:42:06)
Sl looking
very agitated.
Andrea (1:42:09)
Yeah,
you have to imagine that you are doing your life wherever you are and all of a sudden, silently, there’s a big alien ship that comes from the sky and every now and then it makes a sound that freaks you out. Would you be happy about that?
And this is what usually the animals are experiencing from their point of view. And we see them and I did fly and I love it. you this is one of the aspects. The other aspect is that you’ve been a pilot so you know, you can’t steer the wheel wherever you want.
the wind that picks up at a certain time of the day can bring you far, far away if you don’t land on time. And so at some point you need to steer up and down and land in an area where you can, of course.
Jason (1:42:58)
Yeah, you definitely it’s not
one of those things where you take off at an airport, fly around for a bit, and land at an airport. So it does you know, and you’ve got a lot of lot of balloons. Yeah. yeah.
Andrea (1:43:03)
Yes, not in the same spot. And then you’ve got a lot of logistics going on. You have at least
four cars, if not five, going to pick up the guests, up the equipment, going around. And I’m not demonizing the balloon as an activity, but…
I would like to clarify that I’m choosing the two operators which are more ethical towards the off-road driving and the logistics linked to flying than others because I care about the environment and I care about my job as I respect the job of the others. I think I need to take a clear position about that.
Jason (1:43:42)
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrea (1:43:44)
because I see the destructive consequences of it. yeah, that’s it.
Jason (1:43:48)
No, no, I
I everything you said makes total sense based on my end my knowledge of of ballooning and business and and and how that works. I think that everybody needs to look at whether it’s a balloon basket with 20 people in it or a bus with forty people in it. We gotta look at this and say, how do we make this work for for the environment if we wanna maintain it and keep it? So anyway. Andrea, thank you so much again. I look forward to chatting with you again real soon. Have a great day.
Andrea (1:44:12)
Thank you. You too.
Thank you. Thank you.
Jason (1:44:15)
pr hey, and thanks for spending so much time with me. This was really nice. Thanks, Andrea. All right, bye bye.

Get Expert Interviews Delivered Directly to Your Inbox
Join the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast community and we’ll send you new podcast episodes weekly, and make sure you hear about exclusive and relevant opportunities that you won’t find elsewhere.










