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Episode #175: Andrew Lamb

Founder

Wales Outdoors

Episode #175: Andrew Lamb
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Guest Bio

Andrew Lamb is the founder of Wales Outdoors, a premier guided hiking and touring company showcasing the landscapes, history, and hidden gems of Wales. With more than 30 years of experience as an outdoor professional, Andrew began his journey pioneering mountain bike guiding in the Brecon Beacons before evolving his business into a full-service adventure travel operation focused on immersive walking tours.

A certified Mountain Leader and Green Badge Tourist Guide, Andrew combines deep local knowledge with formal training to deliver meaningful, responsible travel experiences. His work is rooted in sustainability and a passion for connecting visitors to Wales in an authentic way. Beyond guiding, Andrew has played an active role in shaping regional tourism, contributing to environmental initiatives, leading community programs, and supporting collaboration across the outdoor industry.

His career reflects a lifelong commitment to the outdoors, education, and creating experiences that leave a lasting impression on travelers while protecting the landscapes they explore.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Andrew Lamb, founder of Wales Outdoors, about building a decades-long career in adventure tourism and the evolution of travel in Wales.

Andrew shares how his early experiences in outdoor education shaped his path into guiding, eventually leading him to launch one of Wales’ most established hiking and touring companies. He reflects on the shift from multi-activity adventure offerings to a more focused, sustainable model centered on guided hikes and cultural tours, as well as the impact of technology in making independent travel and small-group experiences more accessible.

The conversation also explores changing traveler behavior, from the rise of international visitors and content creators to the challenges of overcrowding at popular destinations. Andrew offers a thoughtful perspective on sustainable tourism, guiding philosophy, and how operators can balance business success with environmental responsibility and meaningful guest experiences.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Building a long-term adventure business often requires evolving your offerings as markets and tools change
  • ✓ Simplifying operations—like focusing on hiking over equipment-heavy activities—can improve both profitability and lifestyle
  • ✓ International travelers now make up a significant portion of many regional tourism businesses
  • ✓ Social media and influencer culture are actively shaping travel demand and destination awareness
  • ✓ Avoiding peak times and crowded locations can dramatically improve guest experience and sustainability
  • ✓ Small-group, high-value tours allow for better service and reduced environmental impact
  • ✓ Flexibility in modern work culture has changed how and when people travel
  • ✓ Professional guide training enhances both safety and storytelling, even when not legally required
  • ✓ Early exposure to outdoor experiences can have a lifelong impact on career paths
  • ✓ Sustainable tourism starts with intentional decisions at the operator level

What You’ll Find on Wales Outdoors

  • ✓ Guided day hikes across Wales’ most scenic landscapes
  • ✓ Multi-day walking adventures for more immersive experiences
  • ✓ Cultural tours featuring castles, history, and local stories
  • ✓ Expert-led experiences by certified professional guides
  • ✓ Small-group tours designed for a more personal experience
  • ✓ Thoughtfully designed itineraries that avoid overcrowded hotspots

Learn more about Wales Outdoors and connect with Andrew at:

https://walesoutdoors.co.uk

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Podcast Transcript

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Jason Elkins (00:00.758)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today and excited to have our guest as well. We’ve got Andrew Lamb. He’s the Founder of Wales Outdoors. Andrew, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

Andrew Lamb (00:17.577)
Glad to be here. Good afternoon to you, Jason.

Jason Elkins (00:21.598)
Yeah, we’re gonna have a fun conversation. spoke about a week ago or so and I just thought, man, we need to come back and have a conversation, learn a little bit about Wales, because I don’t know too much about it, know very little about it, but mostly wanna get to know you, kind of figure out your story and figure out how the heck you got from where you are to where you are now. But before we jump into that, let’s give our listeners kind of an idea. What is Wales outdoors? What do you guys do?

Andrew Lamb (00:49.555)
So, yeah, backstory really quickly. Wales Outdoors had many iterations and currently it’s a guided hike company covering all of Wales and a guided tour company. So, taking visitors around castles, that kind of thing. So it’s a mixed bag offering, I suppose, tours of, yeah, as I say, guided tours of hikes or castles or landscapes.

but across Wales, so based in the south east of Wales but I like to get around the whole country.

Jason Elkins (01:26.562)
Very, very cool. Are these all day hikes? You do multi-day adventures, groups. Tell us a little bit about that.

Andrew Lamb (01:37.321)
Hiking wise tends to be day hikes. However, occasionally when I’m kind of driven, I will advertise something that’s more adventurous and multi-day. However, the kind of multi-day adventure hike that I enjoy doing is a niche product really. It’s hard work.

it’s carrying your own tent, cooker food, that kind of thing. It’s back country hiking, I suppose. the amount of people that want to do that in Wales when, you know, we do get very good days of weather and runs of weather, but you’ve got to be aware that it’s probably going to Yeah, so it’s a limited client base.

Jason Elkins (02:29.486)
I can imagine and I saw a look on your face when you kind of said, well, when I feel driven, I was like, okay, this sounds like something that’s work. It’s like when I say when I feel motivated, then it means it’s going to be something that requires a little extra motivation and I’m sure a lot more work for you just logistically. And yeah, I get that completely. What is your…

Typical guess I don’t know if you have a typical I’m sure you have a typical guess but are they mostly people from the UK or do you get people from? You know the states other places as well

Andrew Lamb (03:05.769)
That’s a really good question and they’re over the history of Wales Outdoors is over 30 years old now so over the history of The time that I’ve been delivering products through Wales Outdoors The client base has changed and continues to change so today I’ve got a local social hiking group and that’s That’s a very low cost. We meet once a month

go for a hike in South East Wales or Mid Wales. That’s that. So there is a local base to the business. But post COVID, when I found that that business really didn’t bounce back, I went for the overseas market. So the inbound tourists to Wales. And I would suggest, well, I know that all

The majority of business that I get throughout the season, from April to September, the majority of them are overseas clients. So many of whom from the United States, some, and I’d say that’s the biggest client base that I have. And then the rest would be Europe, Australia, Canada, yeah.

Jason Elkins (04:25.57)
Why do you, you mentioned that the local business didn’t really bounce back. so you shifted focus. get that. Why do you think that is? Why did it not bounce back? Is that just curious? All right. I, we’re going to get into this quick. All right.

Andrew Lamb (04:38.054)
I’ve got two theories, Jason. So the reason why the very popular pre-COVID social hiking group didn’t bounce back, I have to lay the blame for that at the door of Facebook. And the issue there was that in February of…

Jason Elkins (05:01.528)
Hmm.

Andrew Lamb (05:07.815)
February or March of 2022, Facebook switched off organic sharing of events. So my local client base were finding the hikes that I was doing through Facebook events and I was getting 25,000 impressions, 50,000 impressions on an event, which gives me enough impressions to get enough people to come along to make it worthwhile.

Jason Elkins (05:23.629)
Mm.

Andrew Lamb (05:36.006)
you

Jason Elkins (05:36.94)
Well, either either that event or just in general, the awareness of your brand and what you’re doing and and all that stuff. I’m sure. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (05:46.555)
Absolutely. So and it didn’t just affect me. It affected the majority of event based businesses. you know, a small band that were putting out their events, they weren’t getting any reach on on Facebook. So if you were reliant on Facebook at that time to get your to get your new clients, it was kind of switched off. And I think that’s that’s gone to pay. They met a move to a payment model.

There is also another reason and the other reason I think certainly in the UK the work-life balance shifted. So I was providing events at weekends for local people who were busy five days a week at work. That completely changed during Covid and certainly in Wales the majority of people haven’t gone back to a nine to five, five day a week existence.

They’re on hybrid working and they kind of spread their workout throughout seven days, taking afternoons off when the weather’s good and things like that. So I think that’s also a contributing factor.

Jason Elkins (06:51.566)
you

Jason Elkins (06:58.402)
Wow, yeah, okay. Both of those make perfect sense in what you mentioned about the hybrid, people shifting to that.

I suspect that that’s something a lot of operators in other countries see as well with their local audit because you know we see it across the board people are just work I know I do you know I work remotely but I worked all weekend because I had things I needed to get done and then I’m you know I might you might take some time off in Tuesday or something like that so all right that makes a lot of sense

Andrew Lamb (07:22.672)
Yeah.

Yeah, and so my Saturday hike wouldn’t work for you, would it? So because you’re gonna take time off on Tuesday because you know you can catch up on Saturday. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (07:37.91)
right, whereas when you’ve got the tourists, somebody coming from the States or other parts of Europe or, or Australia, whatever, they’re kind of on vacation at now. That doesn’t mean that some of them aren’t also working while they’re on vacation. That’s the other thing that kind of, I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if it sucks. I guess it makes it easier for people to travel, but at the same time.

You used to be able to kind of legitimately say, I’m going away with the family for a week. And so I just won’t be able to get anything done. But since your whole job has transitioned into a remote type of job or a hybrid type of job, I think employers probably expect you to, you know, stay in touch a little bit better where you could just disappear in the past, I think.

Andrew Lamb (08:22.244)
So Jason, the only people I know that completely switch off their emails are government employees.

Jason Elkins (08:27.47)
Yeah, yeah, I’m pretty sure you’re right there. Yeah, that’s a whole other conversation, but I think you’re right. I think people just, it is harder to turn off. What about on your hikes? Along those lines, do you have a no, I don’t know, no checking emails policy when you’re out with your clients? Does that come up? Is it a challenge to keep people kind of focused and present?

Andrew Lamb (08:58.504)
The local hikers that I have, they’re not checking their phones. They’re pulling out their phones to take photos. That’s it. International, I don’t know what they’re doing because half of them will be phone in hand for most of the time. And a lot of that is taking photos. Much of it is taking video. I’ve seen a big rise in the amount of people that are coming out.

Jason Elkins (09:07.64)
Right.

Andrew Lamb (09:28.168)
And I’ll have a conversation with them and I’ll say well, what do you do for a living? I’m developing myself as a reseller, a salesperson and I’m doing it through TikToks or YouTube videos. So yeah, I think that they are working when they’re taking videos, but they’re working on creating them, creating in…

Jason Elkins (09:52.172)
Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Andrew Lamb (09:58.505)
creating themselves as a brand. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (10:01.218)
So what I hear you saying is kind of that the label influencer, right? They’re trying to build an audience so then they can do affiliate marketing or whatever number of things people are doing. That’s interesting, yeah, that makes sense. And that’s a pretty big shift probably. When did you start to see that?

Andrew Lamb (10:06.908)
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah.

Andrew Lamb (10:21.648)
And, well, there’s quite a funny story, I think. The first time would have been, it was two American women that I picked up from Cardiff. They had booked a day hike up to the summit of Pennyvan. That’s the highest mountain in South Wales. And we got most of the way. And then they said, we just wanna do a quick photo shoot. And I thought it was a bit odd, because one of the women was wearing

a kind of an old fashioned tweed suit. And so they did this photo shoot and I said, what’s going on? she’s dressed as the queen. And this looks a little bit like Balmoral, the landscape, it looks like Scotland. So we’re pretending she’s in Scotland. We didn’t get to the summit of the mountain, but I took them to two other places that had royal connections in South Wales. And as we got to each place,

Jason Elkins (11:09.39)
You

Andrew Lamb (11:19.532)
We stopped the car and she got out the one in the tweed suit and she said just wait a minute I’m just going to get changed and one time she got changed into 1960s mini dress that Princess Anne once wore and then also she changed into a dress that Catherine had worn just a couple of weeks before when she visited Abba Van which is where there was

dreadful mining disaster in the late 1960s. So I think she was doing this off the back of, I think, is it a Netflix series, The Crown? It could be Prime, I don’t know, but yeah, either one. But a big series called The Crown that followed the life of the Queen, really, through childhood, right the way through. And Aberfan was featured quite

Jason Elkins (12:07.65)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (12:16.04)
quite highly in that series. So that was a good place to visit. But yes, that was the first time. I couldn’t believe how much work she was putting into it. And I asked her friend how many followers does she have? I expected thousands and she had 500. So a lot of work, but she was building. I don’t know how far she’s got.

Jason Elkins (12:33.017)
yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (12:39.18)
Wow. as I was listening to you, like, I don’t necessarily like the word.

Product but we use it right when you think of developing new products and stuff like new experiences There’s different words we can use but as I was listening to us I was imagining you little light bulbs going off in your head or they were going off in mind just listening thinking maybe do we do a an influencer package It’s it’s three days I stay in a nice hotel and then we I take them to scenic places so they can take pictures and do their videos and and and just specifically target them

Andrew Lamb (12:47.997)
Mm.

Andrew Lamb (13:05.404)
Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (13:15.472)
I don’t know. Did any new products come out of having a new crop products cropped up in your mind or that you’ve developed or places you take people now because of so much attention to Instagram and tick tock and influencers or do you just kind of do your own thing and

Andrew Lamb (13:34.409)
That’s a great question. the tours that I’ve developed are tours that I want to do myself and they do change over time really to maintain a freshness of delivery. My wife Kate, she’s currently undergoing training to become a South West Wales tourist guide. So she’ll be adding new products in but tried and tested products.

Jason Elkins (13:41.612)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (13:47.982)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (13:56.142)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (14:03.964)
You know, we’re kind of also, I’m kind of also driven by the influencers. So it’s less coming from me, it’s gonna be more coming from their side.

take one area in the Brecon Beacons National Park, it’s called the Waterfalls area of the Brecon Beacons. It’s hugely popular and people travel I think from all over the world to go to this one place to see four, five or six waterfalls and they’re very much worth seeing. It’s a lovely environment but you know it’s it kind of

astounds local people if they approach somebody and say where you from and they say United States and say well where you been I flew to Paris and then I flew I flew over to London and came straight here because I want to see the waterfalls it’s and local people don’t necessarily value the locations as much as people from overseas do

Jason Elkins (15:00.526)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (15:08.27)
And I’m curious because, well, a couple of things. I’m guessing it probably gets kind of crowded because a lot of those types of places can get very crowded. Number one, number two, you know, the so many people are going to places so they can get that Instagram picture or so, you know, so they can get that. Look where I was. I’m and I’m not knocking it. I think it’s I think it’s good when people get out and explore the world.

Andrew Lamb (15:17.298)
Yep.

Jason Elkins (15:38.238)
Most motivations are pretty good if they get, you know, if they get out and see new things. I guess what I want to ask you is if you get two inquiries come in at the same time and you’ve got one that’s wants to go get the Instagram glam photos at these waterfalls and the other, you know, two people and another one is like, Hey, we just want to go check out some, you know,

We just want to find some seclusion and we just want to kind of go enjoy nature and enjoy the moment and we don’t even want to take pictures. We just want to be super present. The pay is the same. Which one are you going to do?

Andrew Lamb (16:16.495)
well.

Jason, the key to being able to take both bookings and do them at the same time, which is what any tour provider really ought to be aiming for, is to make sure the walk is long enough and adventurous enough to satisfy somebody who wants peace and quiet. I’ll talk to you a little bit about the overcrowding in a sec, but the other is to allow enough time for those…

Jason Elkins (16:29.633)
Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (16:40.482)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (16:49.018)
at various stops for people that want to get loads of photos and video, just give them enough space to be able to do that. Overcrowding is an issue certainly in the waterfalls area, certainly on some mountains in Wales. maybe about 10 years ago, Wales Outdoors, myself and my wife, we made the decision to, during the high season, not take any bookings at weekends. Now that is…

It’s financially damaging to us because we lose a lot of the British market Because we’re not we’re not taking bookings at weekends or at least not taking bookings on our standard tours So we will take private bookings where we can direct people away from the busy areas But you know we run small group

A small group, I’d say they have to be now small group, high value to us. Generally working a maximum of about seven to eight clients per guide. And if we’ve got people paying a substantial amount to come out with us to cover our costs and to make some profit, we don’t wanna be taking them to a theme park.

Jason Elkins (18:14.252)
Okay, I love it.

Andrew Lamb (18:14.746)
And some places are kind of a bit like a theme park on weekends and bank holidays. The UK has several holiday Mondays throughout the year and they’re usually very busy days in the outdoors, especially if the weather’s great, yeah.

Jason Elkins (18:25.486)
Hmm?

Jason Elkins (18:34.232)
Sounds like a great business decision on many different levels, I’m, I’m imagine, I’ll tell you what I’m imagining and you can, you know, correct me if I’m kind of missing it, but most of your clients are coming from overseas. So they’re on vacation. So they’ve got some flexibility in their schedules. So the person that you say, Nope, it’s not available on Saturday. They’ll probably go on Friday, Tuesday or whatever for one, right?

Andrew Lamb (18:59.514)
Yes, so our overseas clients, will have that flexibility. often some will plan to visit Wales when they know that we’ve got a tour available that they want to do.

Jason Elkins (19:03.277)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (19:11.446)
Yeah. And, you don’t have the people that, you know, they read all the great reviews on your website. They, know, or wherever, and they decide, we want to go. And then you take them on a Saturday and it’s crowded. And then they, they write a review because, my gosh, they took it as place. It was so crowded, da da da da da. Why take that risk?

when that say when you can probably get that same person to go on Thursday. So yeah, it’s. Yeah. I I love that.

Andrew Lamb (19:39.749)
It’s kind of directing people, isn’t it? yeah, yeah. And also it’s good for the environment, it’s good for the local communities. So, you know, generally when we’re on a tour, there are opportunities for our clients to spend money either at cafes or gift shops and things like this in the communities that we’re visiting. It’s unlikely we would do that on a very busy weekend because

Jason Elkins (19:51.394)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:03.554)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (20:08.53)
there may not be any seats in the cafe available and the gift shop might look a bit too crowded. we’re spreading tourism out into, even though we’re in the high season, we’re using the days which are kind of the low volume days during the high season.

Jason Elkins (20:11.214)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:26.69)
This it it sounds like a sustainable tourism strategy on kind of a micro scale. talk about, you know, well, I don’t know if it’s micro scale, but I get what you’re saying. I think that’s pretty cool. And and I also want to know.

Was that also just a peace of mind thing for you guys? Like, Hey, we can kind of just take weekends off and not deal with the crowds and not be stressed out by trying to find a spot to park or a place to, for the clients to eat lunch and that type of thing. It just makes life easier too. Right. More.

Andrew Lamb (21:01.628)
much easier and if we’re doing something that’s adventurous, safer. We’re walking on footpaths that if they’re crowded then people do get too close to each other on occasion. We don’t want that. I think…

Within the UK as a whole, and I think this is also the case globally, there is a lot of discussion about pressure on honey spot locations. I think it’s important for tourism providers to make individual choices. Now, not everybody would be able to say, I’m not going to work weekends, but we can choose if we do work weekends, where to work and try to move our clients away from the busy spots.

Jason Elkins (21:47.309)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (21:51.091)
So as I said, I will take work at weekends, but those will be private bookings and usually a group booking. So a couple of people, they would buy me as a guide for a day and I would advise them that no, we’re not gonna go to Pennyvan, but we’ve got all these other options. Which ones do you want to do? Yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:10.926)
Yeah. Do you, do you feel like an awful lot of clients kind of come to you with, this is the place we saw this on Instagram. This is where we want to go. And, and, and you probably figure out that there’s other options. There’s better options, but I guess what percentage of people say come with a specific place they want to see. Do you think, or is that hard to tell because they book on your website and they just pick a, they pick a tour, guess, but.

What’s your take?

Andrew Lamb (22:42.504)
That’s a really good question. think you’re going to be amazed by the answer. You know, I said some of our tours are quite high value. We get people that book tours, turn up and they don’t know what they’ve booked onto. They just, I’ve got a free day. This guy’s the only one that’s available. I’ll spend the money and I’ll just do it.

Jason Elkins (22:58.89)
Jason Elkins (23:07.422)
surprised as you might have thought but I I’m curious because you know things probably more so now but people are more tuned in with you know Instagram and social media and stuff but I’m not terribly surprised I remember when I was a fishing guide in Montana you know we were I spent a lot of time on the Yellowstone River it’s like one of the most famous rivers in the US anyway and people come there and they’d book a fishing trip and sometimes halfway through the day they’re like

So what river is this? I’m like, whoa, they just were in the area and wanted to go fishing. They had no clue what was around and they, they hired a guide and you’re like, wow, you’re floating down the Yellowstone river. just paid four or 500 bucks to do this and you don’t, and you don’t know what river you’re on. I was like, okay. So, and I’m not knocking them. Yeah. You know,

Andrew Lamb (23:38.47)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (23:56.265)
It never ceases to amaze me.

Jason Elkins (24:00.266)
So what they’re doing something. I, they don’t need to know where they’re going. I actually like tours. I could probably show up in Wales and you know, just, Hey Andrew, I don’t know where we should go, you know, but I’d love to spend a day with you. Show me some stuff. That’s kind of the way I am. so there’s wide range of people. that’s pretty cool. You mentioned something about your wife getting or training to get certified or whatever as a guide.

Andrew Lamb (24:14.428)
Mm. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (24:29.07)
for Southwest Wales certified. I don’t remember the exact term used, then I wanted to.

Andrew Lamb (24:35.432)
Tourist guide I think.

Jason Elkins (24:38.048)
Okay. Yep. So does Southwest Wales have its own guide training program certification program? Is it? I just was curious about that.

Andrew Lamb (24:52.55)
Okay, so in the UK as a whole, there is no requirement for anybody leading guided tours for tourists to have any qualification. However, there is an association of guides, several associations across the UK, one that’s all of the UK and then within Wales a separate

association that’s affiliated to the national and these offer professional training for tourist guides. It’s actually when I did my qualification I would go so far as to say it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Simply because we everybody undertaking the training were having to do things that were outside of our normal

Jason Elkins (25:37.486)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (25:50.579)
kind of sphere of knowledge. And this is part of the training. It’s to make sure that you’re going to be able to take tourists around attractions and cities and landscapes in a safe manner, whilst also delivering a wide variety of information. you know, for example, we did an exam towards the end of the course.

Jason Elkins (26:11.95)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (26:20.04)
the Pan Wales exam. So this is an exam covering Wales, but it covers history, society, politics, geography, geology, and we don’t know what the questions are going to be. So it’s kind of quite a stressful exam because you can’t cram one small area of one subject and know that you’re going to pass because you’ve done the revision. The questions are random.

Jason Elkins (26:34.307)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (26:48.712)
And if you didn’t know that that bit of history, well, you can’t answer it correctly. Can you so? Yeah, so it was quite tough. You’ll be the training also trains you to be a guide on coaches so the person who sits at the front of the coach and Explains to everybody behind them what’s going on with their journey? And Yeah, it’s about delivery delivery of your content as well and also research skills

Jason Elkins (26:53.954)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Andrew Lamb (27:17.074)
So research skills with the, when you decide to bring in a new location.

Jason Elkins (27:18.766)
Okay?

Jason Elkins (27:23.63)
Okay. Did, do you feel like the, the training experience that you had aligned well with the realities of being a tour guide? So I’m not, guess I’m not trying to ask you to judge the program or the association or whatever. I’m just like, I guess here’s a better way to ask this. If somebody had never been a guide, that was fairly outgoing.

and went through this training program and then they came to work for you, would they feel like, okay, the training I went through aligns well with the actual job.

Andrew Lamb (27:59.485)
Hmm. So I wouldn’t employ somebody that wasn’t qualified because I make it a condition of, a set, it’s a USP for the business is that everybody’s qualified. And I think, I think it’s important to do that to support the association of guides. One of the problems we have in the UK,

Jason Elkins (28:05.902)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (28:12.782)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (28:27.196)
because there isn’t a legal requirement to be a qualified guide. It’s probably the same across much of the world because how much training do you need to do a food tour walking around a city center? If you want to do it really well, the training does come in exceptionally handy. So I highly rate the training for tour guides. And the training for tour guides is delivered…

in the same way in all European countries because it’s covered by an overarching European organization that kind of monitors the standard of training. I think tour guide training is very important. If you’ve got somebody who’s effusive and personal and knowledgeable, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t do a tour.

Jason Elkins (29:07.63)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (29:24.914)
and there’s no law to stop them in the UK. However, being a qualified tour guide also means you’ve got access to tour guide insurance and all this kind of stuff as well. I would say it’s unwise to step outside of the box because if anything ever did go wrong and somebody got a serious injury and took you to court, you’d need to be able to justify what you were doing in front of a judge.

Jason Elkins (29:54.222)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (29:54.682)
I don’t necessarily need to do that because I’ve got the weight of the qualification behind me.

Jason Elkins (30:00.684)
Yeah, that’s a really good point that people tend to not think about until it’s maybe a little bit too late. But you mentioned things like, yeah, insurance and all that stuff. But technically, if I wanted to put up a website and say I’m doing hiking day tours anywhere in the UK, they’re not going to come arrest me when I show up with my clients or whatever. if I, yeah, OK.

How long is that? Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Lamb (30:30.984)
Here’s one for you Jason, you’ll find this surprising I think, and I don’t think this is the case in some other European countries, but you could come across to Wales and I could take you out for a day’s climbing. The very next day, overnight you could build your website and just, you know, you’ve got some understanding of tying a couple of knots and how to belay. Yeah, you can be a climbing instructor in the UK for adults. So you can’t take children on their own.

but you would be able to take adults and their own children. quite amazing.

Jason Elkins (31:07.18)
Well, maybe the one caveat though is since I am not legal to work any job in the UK, then that might be the issue. So there might be, you just can’t work. You know, if you’ve got a work permit, then you can go, you can be a climbing guide. But okay. darn it.

Andrew Lamb (31:17.02)
Yeah,

Andrew Lamb (31:24.902)
Yeah, yeah it wasn’t enough for anyway Jason so…

Jason Elkins (31:30.678)
No, I’ve been climbing a bit. It’s not something I would want to be responsible leading people up the side of the mountain. Yeah, that’s that’s for sure. How long is the training program?

Andrew Lamb (31:43.453)
So it’s six months. And it’s quite intensive. I think, yeah, six months. And it’s a minimum of one day a week in person time and then quite a few days of doing research throughout the week. So it’s not something you can easily do while you’ve got another job. At least you wouldn’t be able to devote.

Jason Elkins (31:45.874)
wow.

Andrew Lamb (32:09.946)
as much time as you should to it if you did have something else on the go.

Jason Elkins (32:14.22)
I guess a scenario, this scenario I imagine is maybe work for the tour company on in some other capacity, you know, clean, clean vehicles, help with reservations, do something like that while you’re while you’re going to school because.

Andrew Lamb (32:23.334)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (32:32.43)
And anybody that signs up for something like that, you pretty much know that there’s serious about it because presumably there’s a financial investment as well, not just time. And, um, so yeah, it’s, it’s pretty smart as a business person to say, look, I’m only going to hire people that have done this because not only is it part of your USP, your unique, unique, uh, position or, um, that all of your guides are certified, but it also probably helps you with turnover. Cause you don’t get somebody who, you

just woke up one morning and decided I think I want to be a guide they’ve got a good personality and then you hire them and you train them for you know and then two months later they’re gone and anybody that’s that has done the six-month program they’re you know if they still want to be a guide at the end of those six months then they’re probably gonna stick around a while

Andrew Lamb (33:24.742)
Yes, the, you know, the one of the issues that we do have is age of guides. So it tends to be the most the age is older rather than younger. It’d be great to have a few more younger guides in in tourist, tourist guiding. You plenty of younger mounting guides around. So I think.

Jason Elkins (33:50.339)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (33:53.415)
I think that’s something to do with, obviously, youthfulness and fitness and things like this, but also a broad generalisation. I think a younger person doesn’t see somebody holding up an umbrella with 10 people following them in a city centre as that kind of a sexy thing as compared to, we’re going climbing up a mountain today. So there’s a difference of view of these.

Jason Elkins (34:15.822)
you

Andrew Lamb (34:22.13)
two different styles.

Jason Elkins (34:24.686)
Have you given thought to, you know, what should the guide association do to help bring in more younger people? mean, are there, do you guys have conversations about this?

Andrew Lamb (34:36.794)
I don’t, I’m not at that level. The executive probably do. Yeah, they probably do. Yeah, I don’t know how we do it. It would be great if the executive had a word with the university and made it part of a tourism degree.

Jason Elkins (34:39.79)
No, but they didn’t ask. Well, here’s your opportunity. They’re gonna listen to this.

Andrew Lamb (35:03.15)
And so tourism graduates are leaving with this qualification. That would be fantastic.

Jason Elkins (35:08.76)
Well, cause if, if you’re going to school for hospitality and tourism or, you know, even outdoor recreational type program or something like that and come out as a certified guide and, yeah. And then, and then, you know, we’re a lot of people that I’ve had on this podcast started out as guides.

Right? At a younger age, that was their first opportunity. And then they’ve grown up to build these larger businesses all the way up to, you know, people are working at high levels in these big businesses and they got their start working as a guide. So it seems like it would be a good service for the university and the association to kind of help make that happen. Just for people and just for long-term investment in the community. I would think.

Andrew Lamb (35:32.552)
Yep.

Andrew Lamb (36:00.381)
It’d be fantastic and it’s one of the things I think every country does badly is give the ability of enable young people to have life skills. for example, something that was discussed in the UK was every school child when they leave school has a valid first aid certificate. So just something like that.

Jason Elkins (36:02.626)
In case they’re listening.

Jason Elkins (36:28.11)
Mmm.

Andrew Lamb (36:30.448)
a life skill that they may never use, but often an employer will put them through a first aid course anyway. So it’s already done. So it’s something that they can say, I’m already first aid trained. somebody attending a tourism hospitality degree, they leave with an actual qualification that they can then use directly in the workplace straight away. Fantastic, isn’t it?

Jason Elkins (36:38.36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (36:58.542)
I could actually get a job. Wouldn’t that be cool? Kids getting out of university with job credentials. would be pretty cool. All right. So I think we covered a bit of what Wales outdoors is and we covered, we went into a lot of cool stuff, but let’s now I want to dig into how the heck you got to where you are. Cause you’ve, the business has been around for 30 years. I believe you said.

Andrew Lamb (37:00.742)
Yeah, yep, yep.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (37:24.492)
So let’s go back further than that. don’t want to, I don’t want to just go back 30 years and I’m not going to ask you your age or you look very young, but how far back do we need to go Andrew to get kind of a feel for how you ended up in this.

Andrew Lamb (37:40.499)
Well, originally I’m from South East London and I had a great geography teacher. So any teachers out there listening, you hold the future of your pupils in your hands. If you do great stuff with them, they will remember and it will influence lives. So I certainly was influenced by the geography teacher. He ran the outdoor pursuits program in school.

Jason Elkins (37:44.098)
Andrew Lamb (38:10.696)
We did things in that outdoor pursuits program that you could never get away with now. One example is we went on a two-week tour in Scotland, wild camping. I think it was probably about 15 boys were put onto a boat. We were motored across to an island off the coast of Scotland. We got off the boat, we had our…

Jason Elkins (38:17.486)
You

Andrew Lamb (38:38.3)
backpacks with us, our food tents, that kind of thing. The boat just drove off and said back in 24 hours. You could never do that today, but it was a great experience.

Jason Elkins (38:44.065)
Nice.

Jason Elkins (38:48.878)
This was, this was just the students stayed on the No, I love it.

Andrew Lamb (38:52.872)
Yeah, no teaching staff at all. I would have been, I would have been 12, I would have been 13 when that…

Jason Elkins (39:00.438)
Yeah. If, if, if you arranged something like that now, you’d be in jail a long time and lawsuits and my goodness. Yeah. Uh-huh. That’s pretty cool.

Andrew Lamb (39:06.544)
Absolutely.

When I was in my early 20s, I met a girl from Cardiff. She wanted to move back to Wales. So I accompanied her. We’re not in a relationship now. I’ve got a different wife. I call her my current wife. Yeah. And yeah, so…

Jason Elkins (39:32.352)
Yeah, how does that work for you? I’m sure she appreciates that.

Andrew Lamb (39:41.957)
Once in Wales, I had access to the hills and I started to, and this is why the teaching is really important because I remembered that we did all of that stuff in school and I had done some hiking and things in between but not a lot. And I got back into it when I was in Wales. I was working for Welsh Water, worked for Welsh Water for five years, took voluntary redundancy.

with them and it was so voluntary severance and I used that money to set up Wales Outdoors which originally was just mountain bikes and mountain bike guiding. So mountain bike hire and guiding. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (40:23.437)
Oh, okay. Let’s, let’s, let’s pause here for a second because I want to, that’s a good place to come back to, but I want to dig a little bit deeper kind of into the childhood. said Southeast London. That means something to people that are familiar with London. Um, what, what, what should our listeners know about growing up in Southeast London? First of all,

Andrew Lamb (40:32.925)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (40:48.78)
I have no idea. don’t know what kind of neighborhood that is. don’t know. What was your childhood like? I guess is what I’m asking.

Andrew Lamb (40:49.307)
London.

Andrew Lamb (40:54.76)
Yeah, yeah. London is a city possibly now of possibly 10 million. I don’t think anybody really knows, but it’s going to be 8, 10, 12 million, something like this. A big metropolis. At the time, my school was in central London, so I started commuting to school by train when I was 11. So is that… Yes?

Jason Elkins (41:20.503)
wow. By yourself. Okay.

Andrew Lamb (41:23.996)
Yeah, so that was a 30 minute train journey into the centre of London. So my commute was about 45 minutes to get to school. London was a good place. South East London was a good place to grow up as a child. I’ve got very pleasant memories. Times are very different now and they’re very different everywhere. So you know the story I said about being dropped off on the island by the teacher and said,

back in 24 hours. I remember walking to school as a primary school student, probably started walking to school when I was about six on my own. And this is just what happened. People were, yeah.

Jason Elkins (42:05.134)
Mm-hmm.

I yeah, was noticing already the trend when you started talking about taking the train alone and then the school outing alone. And, and as a younger kid,

Andrew Lamb (42:13.532)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (42:23.148)
What were your parents like? mean, obviously I’m guessing they were pretty, that’s just kind of the way I don’t, was it that way for everybody or was it just something specific to your parents just really gave you a lot of independence? guess that’s what I’m asking.

Andrew Lamb (42:37.928)
I think it was that way for everybody and I’ll give you an example very briefly. When I was 13, I said to my mother, can I go on summer holiday with my friends from school? And my mother said yes, all of my friends’ parents said yes. We planned a two week holiday where we got the train from London to Scotland to Glasgow. It’s a very long way, it’s like 600 miles.

We got a bus from Glasgow to Lus, which is on the banks of Loch Lomond. We blew up the rubber dinghies we’d taken from our parents’ garages and we spent two weeks paddling around and camping, wild camping, on the islands in Loch Lomond. So, I mean, a bit too adventurous for us, but nobody blinked an eye about it. And of course, if parents were found out today that their kids were off doing this…

social services would be called. But it’s a different time today.

Jason Elkins (43:40.62)
What? did you?

I know you’re saying everybody, but I hear you saying your friend group, not everybody wants to go do what you just described. Did they? Or, mean, was there some weird thing going on in Southeast London where all the kids wanted to go do this stuff and had all kinds of independence? I mean, I had a lot of independence, but I grew up out in the, in the mountains. And so I had some, a lot of alone doing stuff, but I don’t know. it.

Or do you think there was something specific to your friend group because of the schools you went to or the people your parents hung out with? I’m just trying to get my head around this.

Andrew Lamb (44:15.952)
It may have been the Friendship Group, it would have been a lot to do with the adventure training we were getting through the Outdoor Pursuits program at school. If you didn’t have that in your school, then you wouldn’t have even thought about doing it, going to Scotland, would you? So, yeah.

Jason Elkins (44:33.034)
Okay, that that makes sense. Okay, that brings us back around to the teacher, the history teacher that that changed your life. And now it’s all now I got my head around it. Thanks. Thanks for guiding me there. You’re very good guide. Appreciate that. All right. So at that age when you were doing this stuff,

Andrew Lamb (44:38.704)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (44:55.66)
What did you think you were going to do? What was like, did you have a someday I’m going to be type of plan or thought process? And I’m just curious what that was.

Andrew Lamb (45:06.364)
Yeah, that’s something that I’ve actually thought about on random occasions throughout my life, is how did I get to where I am today? And in a way, I think I’ve been like a billiard ball just hitting different bits and bouncing off and just going with the flow and seeing what works at the point that I’m at.

Jason Elkins (45:34.638)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (45:35.642)
I’ve had no real drive to become a millionaire or…

I had no fixed career plan, if you like. I think I always knew I wanted to be self-employed, but that’s kind of about it.

Jason Elkins (45:49.517)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (45:57.806)
If we had a time machine and this is just based on what you recollect or what you think maybe you were thinking, but if we had a time machine and we could go back to when you were 16 or 17 and one of your mom’s friends, your dad’s or some, some adult, I was having a conversation with you and said, Andrew, what do you want to do when you grow up? What do you think? What it came out of your mouth?

Andrew Lamb (46:29.032)
I think at 16 it would be the lead singer in a very popular punk band.

Jason Elkins (46:35.566)
okay. Very cool. Was there a specific band that you were interested in?

Andrew Lamb (46:42.792)
Loaded all of them. Quite amazingly, a lot of them still play today. We’re getting on for, what, 76? Yeah, we’re getting on for 50 years later, aren’t we? So, yeah.

Jason Elkins (46:44.618)
All of them. Wow. Punk rocker.

Jason Elkins (46:56.227)
that’s pretty cool. Was that a common, would that have been a common response for teenage boy in Southeast London at that time?

Andrew Lamb (47:06.15)
Yeah, yeah, but, but only kind of only within certain groups so everybody everybody Not everybody would have liked punk bands You would have had

Jason Elkins (47:06.924)
Yeah, okay. All right.

Andrew Lamb (47:26.364)
you’d have had different musical types. Youth movements that are focused on a certain musical genre and your friendship group comes out of that as well, doesn’t it? But because within the school that I went to, the friendship group was quite mixed. So people didn’t just congregate in a group of punks in a corner and a group of people that like soul over there. We did mix quite.

Jason Elkins (47:32.066)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (47:51.15)
Alright.

But I think it’s a it’s a common, yeah, in my in my age group as well. I think a lot of people I want to be famous. I want to be a singer. You know, I was. Yeah, I get that. Did you actually actually your teacher? think he said actually was a geography teacher or was it history and geography? It was geography. OK, yeah, I just realized that I had mentioned history earlier, but.

Andrew Lamb (47:55.272)
quite a lot. yeah.

Andrew Lamb (48:15.612)
Yes, geography, yeah.

Jason Elkins (48:25.752)
Did you like?

Did you end up going to after you call it high school, secondary school, I guess probably what you call it in the UK. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (48:33.776)
Yeah, secondary school. We’ve shifted to high school now, secondary school at the time.

Jason Elkins (48:38.254)
Okay. Did you happen to go on to university? If so, what was your major? what were you studying?

Andrew Lamb (48:47.122)
So I didn’t go to university at that time. And for any young people listening, don’t go to university at 18. It’s not something I recommend. I went to university later in life. And I did politics and creative writing. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (48:57.039)
Hahaha!

Jason Elkins (49:09.102)
Okay, so when you got out of high school, what were you doing? Because I want to work up to you said you were working. You went straight into work doing what kind of work?

Andrew Lamb (49:13.539)
I went straight into work.

Yep. So I went straight into work for British Telecom and it was office-based work and it was amazing because at the time, and this wouldn’t be the case today, at the time young people were paid an adult wage from the get-go. you were on the lowest rung of the pay scale.

but you were on the standard adult wage. There was no youth wage or trainee wage or anything like this. So…

Jason Elkins (49:55.918)
Is that a, when you say the standard adult wage, is this, are we talking about like minimum wages that are set by the government or are you just saying that you were pretty well paid? I’m just trying to get my head around what you’re saying.

Andrew Lamb (50:11.791)
Yeah, so it’d be the salary structure, whatever position you got as a young person, it’d be the, I went in as what was a CA, clerical assistant. And so that was the lowest rung within the organization. And I would have gone in at the lowest point, pay point on that scale, but it was an adult salary. So somebody coming in,

Jason Elkins (50:35.597)
Right.

Andrew Lamb (50:39.683)
new to the company who was 30 years old would have been on the same rate as me. So there was no differentiation between young person and older person, which we do have now.

Jason Elkins (50:44.546)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (50:51.182)
Oh, okay, because I’m not familiar with that. So when you say we do have now, that’s why I was confused. hadn’t really, I mean, I knew that some jobs were typically filled by teenagers because adults, you know, didn’t want to do them and it was lower pay, but there wasn’t like, there wasn’t a system in place that said, if you’re 17 doing the same job, you get paid less than somebody that’s 19 and doing the same job, but they do that now in the UK.

Andrew Lamb (50:55.898)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (51:17.575)
Yeah, so well, the situation’s different now. So I started work as a 16 year old. You can’t start work as a 16 year old now. You have to remain in employment until you’re 18. And then the, sorry, in education. You have to remain in education until you’re 18. And then they have a…

Jason Elkins (51:34.306)
Wait, you have to remain in school until you’re 18. Okay, okay, gotcha.

Andrew Lamb (51:45.68)
a young person’s minimum wage, is likely what you’ll get. So you won’t be on an adult pay salary structure. So yes, to get back to what you said, yes, I felt I was absolutely loaded. I was living at home with my parents, paying them a pittance for my room and board. And yeah, lots of disposable income, it was great.

Jason Elkins (51:49.365)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (52:04.195)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (52:09.334)
Okay. So, and you started this with any 18 year olds out there listening, don’t go to, don’t go to university right away. and then I hear you say, you got a job, you had money, you were staying at home, you had, you know, yeah. And my, my son right now is still living with, with his mom. He’s 19. He just got his first full-time job. He’s going to tech school and they got a job in the, in the HVAC industry. And he’s like, yeah, he’s.

You know, he’s got, he’s three paychecks in now and he’s like, man, I got money. My mom wants me to start paying rent. And his mom’s yeah, she’s good for her. I think it’s great. I’ll, I’ll leave it that way. Um, so why do you, why do you say don’t go to school right out of school?

Andrew Lamb (52:46.79)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (52:55.836)
Hmm.

Andrew Lamb (53:03.984)
I… yes, so I would say that now because…

Andrew Lamb (53:11.451)
I think it’s really important if you’re going to spend three or four years of your life studying, you choose the right subject. And I’m not so sure that many 18 year olds know exactly where they want to go. So they just pick something to go. I’ve got a feeling that university life for some at that age is problematic.

Jason Elkins (53:19.928)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (53:39.528)
There’s lots of drinking and partying all the time and it does damage some. But more importantly, I think if you are able, find an employer who likes you and will pay for you to go to university whilst you’re working for them. And that is something that is certainly available in the UK. And so why would you take out a student loan

Jason Elkins (53:58.466)
Mm.

Andrew Lamb (54:08.551)
And the average debt that a student has in the UK is £50,000 at the end of their degree. And I hear that in the United States, certainly if you’re Ivy League, it can be $200,000, something like that. So you’re saddling yourself with a huge debt, which possibly could have been, you could have kind of stepped around by getting a good employer to pay for that for you.

Jason Elkins (54:37.494)
Is that what you were able to do? You had it. Cause you said you went back later. You, you paid for it yourself. But. Okay.

Andrew Lamb (54:41.401)
No, I still paid for it myself anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I paid for half of it and the Welsh government paid for the other half. we have a very strange system in the UK. If you live in England, you pay for everything. If you live in Wales, you pay for half. And if you live in Scotland, you pay for none. It’s all funded by the state. So if…

you good advice to somebody living in England as an 18 year old is move to Scotland, spend two years there and after the two years then go to university in Scotland will pay for it.

Jason Elkins (55:13.848)
Get a job in Scotland.

Jason Elkins (55:22.156)
All right, very cool. anybody listening that look at all the useful tips and information we get from our guests. So, all right, very cool. Okay, so you were working, you met someone special and you moved back to Wales with her, right? And you’d never, you spent time in Wales? Did you know anything about Wales?

Andrew Lamb (55:26.671)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (55:41.767)
Yeah, yeah, that’s where she was from.

Andrew Lamb (55:48.528)
Yes, so my very first girlfriend was from Wales. She was from Caerphilly. A different woman. A childhood holiday romance. And yeah, she was from Caerphilly. also, going back to the geography teacher, several of our outdoor expeditions took place in Wales because South East Wales and the Brecon Beacons

Jason Elkins (55:55.489)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (56:16.463)
are the closest mountains to London. So yeah, it’s a three hour journey along the motorway called the M4.

Jason Elkins (56:24.408)
Are you still in touch with any of the other students that were in this outdoor pursuits group?

Andrew Lamb (56:31.301)
No, unfortunately not. However, the geography teacher does follow me on Instagram and we do exchange a few words every now and again. Yep.

Jason Elkins (56:37.185)
Over.

Cause I was, cause I was curious if you’re, yeah, if any of these other, at the time were kids, I guess, but if any of any of them went into kind of, you know, doing stuff similar to what you’re doing outdoor stuff, did you, do you know if any of them headed that direction or is it just, you’re the one.

Andrew Lamb (56:58.875)
Yeah, I don’t think they did. The school that I went to was kind of strange. It’s called London Nautical School. It was an all-boys school, no girls, and it trained the boys to be merchant seamen.

Jason Elkins (57:10.167)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (57:19.704)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (57:21.351)
And so the more adventurous boys, they did go into either the Royal Navy or the Merchant Navy. Like a lot of things in life, it was probably a bad decision to go to that school, although I did get a lot from it because the UK’s merchant fleet collapsed as I left that school. So the UK doesn’t have any sort of UK-owned shipping anymore.

Jason Elkins (57:51.342)
All right. When I, when I asked you if we had a time machine and we went back to your 16 or 17 and so, and I, somebody asked you, what do you want to do when you grow up? You were going to a nautical school.

Andrew Lamb (58:06.405)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:07.192)
to that, presumably people might choose to go there so they can end up in the Navy or in the merchant Marine type of thing. But you didn’t answer. I wanted to be a sailor or a merchant Marine or anything. You said you wanted to be a punk rocker. Was there a point when you wanted to be a sailor? I mean, why did you go to that school?

Andrew Lamb (58:15.207)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (58:28.743)
Yes, probably when I was 10 or 11. But, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:31.502)
Okay, but you got that out of your system by and by the time you’re 16 you wanted to be a punk rocker. All right. Cool. What about your parents? Did they were they hoping you would be an admiral in the Navy or something like that? I’m presumably they were involved in your decision to go to that school as well.

Andrew Lamb (58:49.519)
Yeah, I think they wanted me to go to that school because it had a good reputation, I think.

And my father’s father, he was a merchant seaman. And my father’s brother, worked on, it’s a joke really, he worked on the Woolwich Ferry, which is a little ferry that goes across the Thames back and forth. So we did have nautical stuff in our blood, yeah.

Jason Elkins (59:18.702)
Okay. Family full of sailors. And we almost missed this. missed and I was asking you about your friend group. Like, and now I understand, oh, you’ve got the friend group of people that are going to a nautical school that at least their families see them as somebody that’s going to go sail the world and do all these things. So, okay. I think I’m starting to, starting to, you did have, you probably had a little bit of a unique friend.

Andrew Lamb (59:28.231)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (59:47.64)
compared to maybe some of the other kids. I don’t know. It sounds interesting. Yeah, yeah. Were your parents disappointed that you didn’t go join the Navy or drive a ferry boat or any of that stuff?

Andrew Lamb (59:50.533)
Yeah, maybe, yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:00:02.976)
No, think that I think my mother was happy. I wasn’t away at sea all the time anyway, so yeah, so Yeah, I think I think that was that was fine

Jason Elkins (01:00:14.19)
All right. What did they, what did they think when you, you moved to Wales and eventually opened up a bicycle, shop and, guide a bicycle guide service.

Andrew Lamb (01:00:24.977)
Well, I think I was quite lucky with parents. My parents were always very supportive. My father, often highly critical, which is not necessarily pleasant at the time, but sometimes it’s good to have criticism. But yeah, very supportive. so…

Jason Elkins (01:00:39.256)
They’re like that. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:00:50.795)
And I suppose when you’re starting a business and you’ve got concerned parents, you know, he’s going to fiddle away his money on something that isn’t going to be successful or stuff like that, then it does make you think a bit harder about the decisions you’re making within your business because you’ve got this critical eye on what you’re doing. It can’t all be dreams that you’re spending money on.

Jason Elkins (01:01:12.174)
Well, you got to prove it right. You got to, got to, you know, when they’re like, are you sure this doesn’t, how are you going to make money doing that? And if, if you’re going to move forward, you’re getting like, I got to figure out how to do this because, you know, and I mean, you should, uh, yeah, you should, uh, you should have sought, you should have saw the conversations. I’m 52. So

Andrew Lamb (01:01:26.215)
I’ve got people watching me haven’t I? Yes, you’ve got to get some of it right.

Jason Elkins (01:01:37.592)
two and a half years ago when I started this podcast, you should have heard the conversations between me and my mother about how, I figured it out. I’m going to start this podcast and I’m going to build websites for adventure tour operators and that, and she, yeah, that was a, that was a different conversation. yeah. So 170 some episodes and just to prove that mom, see, I told you could do this. So I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So, and what about, was she,

Andrew Lamb (01:01:43.814)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:02:02.012)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:02:07.086)
Already your wife. Yeah, I guess she would have been your the first wife. I don’t want to get this out of order. Okay

Andrew Lamb (01:02:12.891)
I’ve only been married once. My current wife is a joke, just a little joke, but yeah, I’ve only been married once.

Jason Elkins (01:02:18.944)
Okay, but the one the one you met and move back to Wales with she was okay. I don’t I think I got lost on the relationship status. Okay, whatever you what

Andrew Lamb (01:02:24.687)
Mm-hmm.

I would say in the UK, girlfriend I suppose or partner. Yeah, girlfriend is a younger way of saying it and partner is a mature, mature way isn’t it? yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:02:36.673)
Okay.

The woman that you were in Wales with that you went to Wales with was presumably still involved in your life when you started the business. All right. Was she interested in the business? Was she supportive of that? And the reason I the reason I ask is because that can be sometimes a challenge for people to work and you know the outdoors and guiding and and finding people that are aligned and and kind of get it or at least appreciate it.

Andrew Lamb (01:02:43.023)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:02:49.255)
Yes, she was,

Jason Elkins (01:03:07.566)
as opposed to the one that, well, can’t you just get a real job? Yeah, because there’s some people, I’ve heard that before too. So tell me a little bit about, not the details of that relationship, I’m just kind of curious about starting a new business that’s outdoor adventure type of stuff with a partner in your life. What did you learn through that process and what advice do you have for anybody that’s listening that maybe wants to do the same?

Andrew Lamb (01:03:36.636)
Yeah, that’s actually a very difficult question to answer. I think within every relationship there’s a different dynamic. And the key is to be financially independent and not impact the relationship with any financial hardship because of decision making that’s ongoing.

And also not to lean too heavily into time as well. You know, it’s very easy to get so involved in your own business that everything else starts to disappear and time just goes. So you need to create time for each other or for people in your life.

Jason Elkins (01:04:18.136)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:04:25.272)
Kind of ties back to earlier in the conversation when we were speaking about this hybrid thing where people are working more across seven days, but especially when you’re an entrepreneur trying to prove to your parents that you can do this, it very quickly becomes completely time consuming. And I know, I remember, I’ve had a few businesses in this space.

Andrew Lamb (01:04:32.124)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:04:53.174)
you touched on the first one is make sure that your decisions or trying to find a way that your decision isn’t going to have a financial impact on the other people or mitigate that as best you can. Because I remember I I have a I had a I don’t have a first wife. had a first wife. I had a second wife. The first wife when I told you know I was doing restaurant management and when I told her I wanted to quit that and go be a fly fishing guide.

Andrew Lamb (01:05:11.879)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (01:05:22.126)
And I love her to death. If she ever hears this, I’m not ashamed to say it, but she, she looked at me and said, Jason, that’s the dumbest. She used different words, but she said, basically said, that’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. But it was because we were married with a young child. I had just got out of the military. was working as a restaurant manager and I’m like, I just want to go be a fishing guide. And it was a really dumb idea from her perspective.

Andrew Lamb (01:05:35.27)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:05:40.101)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (01:05:48.982)
I didn’t end up being a fishing guide later on after we were divorced. So I waited until the right time. But then, yeah, so I get that. And that’s why I like to these questions about relationships and going, opening businesses and starting businesses, because I know it’s, it’s something that comes up for a lot of people. So I just thought I’d ask.

Andrew Lamb (01:05:49.105)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:06:08.231)
I guess it comes down to generally eliminating areas of friction where you can, isn’t it? So, know, where the relationship is going to rub up against what you’re doing with the business. If you can foresee what that’s going to be, then just try to keep it in mind and try to stop that happening. yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:06:17.304)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:06:30.87)
Right. Very cool. So did you have you mentioned mountain biking? You were selling bikes, doing tours. What did you actually have like a storefront?

Andrew Lamb (01:06:43.877)
Yeah, so I set up the first mountain bike guiding business in the Brecon Beacons National Park and I had a bike hire unit which was close to my house. and it was I think I probably had about 25 bikes for hire. But mostly I wanted to be out guiding. So I did a mountain bike qualification, a load of bikes.

did a qualification on bike maintenance. And after about a year, I thought, although I really thought this was for me, coming back off a ride or taking the bikes in off clients at the end of a day and then realizing I’m gonna be up until three o’clock because they’ve punctured every tire. The bike maintenance was the thing that killed it for me. So.

Jason Elkins (01:07:36.396)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:07:42.938)
Yeah, it’s just too much. But also up by then, I was getting lots of inquiries and people were saying, yeah, do you do anything else other than mountain biking? You know, we want to do gorge walking or hill walking or stuff like this. I broadened out. Yeah, mountain biking is actually a big investment if you’re going to do bike hire as well.

Jason Elkins (01:07:57.272)
And you’re like, holy cow, I just need a pair of shoes and a water bottle. And off we go.

Andrew Lamb (01:08:13.735)
But yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:08:14.03)
And if you don’t do the bike hire, yeah, it’s still, I mean, I guess it gets a little bit easier, but then, I don’t know, just.

Andrew Lamb (01:08:21.703)
Well, you can control where people are going if you’re guiding and you can control their speed. You know, you can’t control what the environment’s doing. So we may be, I may have planned to go down a country lane and a hedge cutter has just been in and there was spiky bits of thorns all over the road. yeah, can’t control that.

Jason Elkins (01:08:42.136)
Cause, cause even if you’re not doing, even if you’re not doing the bike hire, you know, they’ve got a rental bike or something. They get a flat. It’s going to impact you. You know? Yeah. You’re, you’re stopping and dealing with that. Or maybe, you know, you don’t have enough tubes or yeah, I can, and I appreciate equipment is. Equipment is a challenge. You know, I had a hot air balloon ride business and I had a.

Andrew Lamb (01:08:52.558)
absolutely.

Andrew Lamb (01:08:58.748)
Hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:09:08.653)
$50,000 hot air balloon that I depended on every time I went out and guess what? Those get holes in them too. You know, and they’re, they’re, they’re big and they’re heavy. So you got to have somebody to help you move it around. And, it was, yeah. And we used to have some days where, you know, the weather wasn’t good. We couldn’t fly, but we’d just go out and walk around in the desert and I’d show them cactuses and birds and stuff like that. And, and it was like, man, I kind of, that’s, yeah, I love flying balloons, but.

Andrew Lamb (01:09:14.747)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:09:31.047)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (01:09:37.728)
It was so much more relaxing to just kind of go on a desert tour and take a walk. It was just more, you know, I didn’t have to think about all the other stuff. So I didn’t get paid when we do that.

Andrew Lamb (01:09:42.939)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:09:47.688)
Well, that’s what my business developed into. Over the years, it turned into a multi-activity adventure business. And it ran through like that until…

Jason Elkins (01:09:58.242)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:10:06.311)
26 2015 2015 and up and then I made the decision at 2015 No, I want to do what I wanted to do when I first started the business which was Guided mountain hikes guided mountain walking, but I couldn’t do the guided mountain walking 35 years ago because the internet didn’t exist in its current form so If I wanted to

If I wanted to take a group hiking, have to, 35 years ago, I had to wait for a fully formed group to approach me and say, will you take us hiking? And then if I was available, yes, I can. And we’d organize a price. Today, with the amazingness of the internet, I can attract seven individuals, bring them together, and I’ve made my own group.

Jason Elkins (01:11:05.464)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:11:05.647)
and I can take them hiking. And so it’s much more, it’s much easier for me to be able to plan what work I’m going to be doing. I’m not waiting for a phone call. If I’ve made a hike available on a day, I know it’s gonna get some people on it. So it’s a lot easier as a business to be able to guarantee a continued income.

Jason Elkins (01:11:32.398)
I got lost somewhere. Help me with this. In 2015, you decided to go back to do what you originally wanted to do. And now you have the internet. You could do the hikes. You could put together the groups. Yeah, yeah, I get that. But but when you described what you were doing before that, I think he’s called it multi adventure. How did you define your business before 2015? What did you offer?

Andrew Lamb (01:11:44.769)
Because I can bring individuals together. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:12:01.324)
multi-activity, a multi-activity business. So I was offering caving and climbing and gorge walking and coasteering and the full range of outdoor adventure activities. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:12:05.004)
multi-activity builds.

Jason Elkins (01:12:13.182)
Okay. Okay. I gotcha. And, and some of those involve equipment issues as well. you don’t, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Repelling and caving and stuff like that. okay. So by cutting it down to guided hikes, it simplifies the business as far as like all the equipment.

Andrew Lamb (01:12:21.007)
Yeah, almost all of them,

Andrew Lamb (01:12:38.567)
It’s huge cost saving. So no…

Jason Elkins (01:12:42.22)
Yeah, yeah, no, I can imagine.

Jason Elkins (01:12:48.59)
Hey, let’s pause for just a second, Andrew. That’s okay. Edit, edit, edit. That’s what I forgot to say this morning before we started.

Andrew Lamb (01:12:49.359)
yeah, yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:12:55.419)
Yeah, I did do it. I put that on silent. One second, till I move away now. I’m going to throw it out.

Jason Elkins (01:13:03.8)
That’s okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you’re okay. I’m gonna come back and edit this out later.

Andrew Lamb (01:13:17.563)
One sec.

Jason Elkins (01:13:17.697)
If you’re, yep.

Andrew Lamb (01:13:25.223)
There we go, I’m sorry about that.

Jason Elkins (01:13:26.86)
No, no, it’s if your phone’s like mine, if somebody calls and it’s on, do not disturb. And then they call again within 60 seconds. It’ll ring anyway. So I have to put mine completely on airplane mode and stuff like that. So, all right. So anyway, edit, edit, edit. So yeah, obviously if you’re just doing the hikes, that makes life a lot easier because presumably maybe, I mean, do you even do you

Andrew Lamb (01:13:36.23)
Bye.

Jason Elkins (01:13:54.786)
Typically meet the clients at a meeting spot. Are they responsible for getting themselves there? Or do you have or do you have vans and go pick people up and?

Andrew Lamb (01:14:04.625)
So, yeah, huge cost saving over delivering a wide range of activities. You you’ve got a different helmet for caving, as you have for mountain biking, as you have for climbing. So you’ve got a kit store full of all these, all of these bits of kit that go out of date rapidly. So if you’re a diligent adventure activity provider, your helmet really only lasts about five years for any of the activities, so you’re constantly refreshing.

Jason Elkins (01:14:12.462)
Hmm?

Jason Elkins (01:14:22.638)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:14:32.689)
So it was good to get rid of a kit store and get rid of the kit. With regards to meeting people, mostly I pick them up because I’m dealing with clients that are generally staying in Cardiff, the capital city of Wales. They don’t have transport and I’m sure the transport company Transport for Wales would say they have excellent service and they do.

but it doesn’t generally go to the places that people want to go to, at least if you’re a hiker or you want to see beauty spots in Wales. You’re not going to get a train to the foot of Pennevan for example, or you won’t even get a bus to the Waterfalls area of the Brecon Beacons National Park. So I offer a service where I pick them up in my minivan. Currently I’ve got two minivans.

Jason Elkins (01:15:08.428)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:15:29.863)
And as I say, they’re small, we run small group tours. So one will take a maximum of seven, the other a maximum of six, fully electric, which was a bit of a leap in the dark, but since I’ve got the electric vehicles, they’re actually quite easy to live with. And I’ll pick them up, hand hold them through that journey, do the hike.

and then take them back and drop them off at the end of the day. So it’s a complete service.

Jason Elkins (01:16:02.734)
Okay, so your kit, the term you use kit is your equipment package is basically your minivan and your little day pack that you probably carry. Do you?

Andrew Lamb (01:16:16.535)
I carry a big bag. Because it’s got an emergency shelter, big first aid kit, spare trekking poles and all sorts of things.

Jason Elkins (01:16:18.86)
Okay. Yeah. okay.

Jason Elkins (01:16:27.758)
I wasn’t trying to imply that you were girly man, you All right, so you got the big bag. So you’ve got that stuff. But you don’t do you provide anything to your like, do you have guests that need to borrow rain jackets or hiking shoes or anything like that? Or that’s pretty much on them on them to show up with that stuff.

Andrew Lamb (01:16:36.454)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:16:53.543)
So we leave it to the client’s discretion, provide as much information as possible and make it as easy as possible for a client to be able to access the kit that they need. So they’ll pay for the hike. If they feel that their footwear isn’t appropriate, then we do hire out boots. We hire out trekking poles. We hire out day packs and different bits of kit. So they can…

Jason Elkins (01:17:19.689)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (01:17:23.045)
Whilst they’re booking, in the same checkout, they can tick a box and we’ll bring a pair of boots along for them. Obviously we’ll have a conversation about sizes. yeah, so we make it as easy as possible, but we find that people are generally happy with their own stuff. And sometimes people get a bit wet during the day because their waterproof isn’t that good, but it’s nothing that’s gonna end in a disaster.

Jason Elkins (01:17:51.576)
Do you wish that you could get rid of the higher, the boots? Like if you just remove that as an option, obviously that might impact the number of bookings you get. Or do you think it would very much? I guess I’m asking you, why do you put yourself through that? Presumably out of necessity, but help me understand it.

Andrew Lamb (01:18:07.942)
No.

Andrew Lamb (01:18:16.871)
So we added kit hire in just last year actually. up until then we weren’t doing kit hire but we had a couple of occasions where the most dramatic instance really was somebody that turned up for a 10 mile hike in the waterfalls wearing flip flops. And as she approached the minivan I said have you got any other footwear? She said no and I said I don’t think you can come. And she said no I wear these all the time.

So it’s like, you’re an adult. I did a safety brief with the group there. so, absolutely, all safety briefs in front of everybody. Did the safety brief. I explained that this, know, it’s inappropriate footwear. She was adamant that she walks everywhere in them. And she did get around halfway. But then she had to bin it. So…

Jason Elkins (01:18:54.05)
So you’ve got witnesses. remember the days.

Andrew Lamb (01:19:15.985)
So it really, it’s providing an extra level of service to clients. that in that instance, she could have seen that there were boots for hire and I don’t think she would have hired boots. I think she felt she was happy enough in her flip-flops. But I mean, they weren’t even outdoor flip-flops. They were kind of beach flip-flops, but there we are. So that was the kind of most amazing.

Jason Elkins (01:19:40.942)
Yeah. Yep. All right.

Andrew Lamb (01:19:45.402)
instance of that but it drove me to think if I have to say to somebody absolutely not you can’t come on the walk then they’ve already had this chance haven’t they to rectify their own shortcomings in kit.

Jason Elkins (01:20:03.512)
Yeah, well, yeah, it’s trip planning documents and packing lists and stuff like that have always been an interesting challenge for anybody that’s doing this type of work. It’s because you can provide an awful lot of information, but some people just don’t read. And I’m one of them. I’m usually that guy that shows up.

Andrew Lamb (01:20:27.655)
Where are going?

Jason Elkins (01:20:28.496)
I didn’t know about that. Where are going? Why are you wearing Crocs? Flip flops? Yeah. But, but I’ll also admit it when I’m like, yeah, I really should have read that. That’s on me. And, and, yeah. So anyway, all right. So, so that’s what you’re doing. What we’ve, we’ve discussed a bunch of things. I want to make sure we’re not missing anything important.

Andrew Lamb (01:20:34.875)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:20:54.658)
What you’re doing with the business sounds fascinating. really enjoyed your story. Andrew, what do you wish that I had asked you already or what did I forget to ask you that you want to make sure that our listeners know about either you, Wales outdoors, Wales in general, guiding, life, relationships, before we wrap up. there anything?

Andrew Lamb (01:21:13.223)
Hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:21:17.659)
Okay, I think it’s important if you’ve got a business to have a passion for it. And I think the passion should also lead you to want to see innovations in your own industry or where things can be made easier for other providers perhaps or where things can be made easier and safer for clients. So I’ve been involved in a few innovations in Wales.

So I was the catalyst that developed the environmental charter group for outdoor activity providers. Also the catalyst for the South Wales outdoor activity providers group, which is an organization that has outdoor activity providers talking to each other. So that’s a networking kind of thing and it delivers safety and best practice.

Right now, I’m kind of focused on direct booking.

The majority of travelers still use, or use, OTAs, online travel agencies, and they take between 25, 35%. One will take up to 50 % of the ticket price. And that is bad for sustainable tourism. It’s bad for the provider.

It’s bad for the local community within which the provider lives because the money is disappearing out of that area and going off to wherever the OTA is based. So I’ve been working on a platform for Wales that’s very easy to onboard to and is direct booking only. So anybody that’s on there, any user that’s on there,

Andrew Lamb (01:23:22.875)
when they see a product and they want to book, they’re booking directly with the provider, be that accommodation, attraction, or experience provider. It is a buzzword within the industry at the moment. If you mention direct booking anywhere, maybe LinkedIn or on social media, other social media, people will engage with you and start talking about it. There’s a lot of…

I would say I’d use a word as strong as animosity towards the OTAs. In many ways, the OTAs have expanded the consumer’s desire to do things, to get out there and take part in experiences that are guided. But I think it’s time that those experience providers took back control of their own business environment.

Jason Elkins (01:24:19.116)
Yeah, it’s like you said, it’s definitely a hot topic that it comes up in, you know, many of the conversations that we have here on the show is we’re discussing that about, you know, getting, getting more direct. The organization that you mentioned, sounds kind of like a, what we call it, I guess, a DMO destination marketing organization. Do you see it that way? Is it, is there any government support?

Andrew Lamb (01:24:28.839)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (01:24:48.526)
or

Yeah, I I would like to touch on that a little bit more. this just, how did that come about? Because I think it’s important for other people to hear this as well.

Andrew Lamb (01:24:57.393)
So.

Andrew Lamb (01:25:03.089)
So what I’ve developed is basically an app. I don’t see the app as, I think it’s great. It’s got lots of functionality, lots of ways to claw back people to visit it again. And it’s also an unbranded app, so it’s not my app. It isn’t a Wales Outdoors app. So the idea is that any tourism,

provider could share it with their clients once they’ve received their first booking and their clients can then use it to further plan and enjoy their stay in Wales. The key to it succeeding is government. So I am urging the Welsh Government Tourism Department Visit Wales to make a small contribution to provide me with a financial contribution to provide me

Jason Elkins (01:25:39.694)
Okay.

Andrew Lamb (01:25:58.32)
not with financial support, but with the gravitas and authority that are behind it to say, look, the government are behind it, so you should onboard, right? I’m doing that with all of the local authorities as well, but to be honest, it’s gonna be a very slow journey. If I have an idea, I move rapidly and I just get it done. A government department,

Jason Elkins (01:26:04.878)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:26:10.094)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:26:27.543)
or local authority, they need lots of cups of coffee and very many biscuits.

Jason Elkins (01:26:32.781)
Do you, you do know that they might hear this episode, right? Well, cause it, cause it, you know, oftentimes in these conversations, I realized there’s, know, there’s other opportunities. are organizations out there like visit Wales. know, most, most tour operators fall within some sort of community that has something like that.

Andrew Lamb (01:26:38.029)
It’s fine. They do know me.

Jason Elkins (01:27:00.966)
And when we talk about direct bookings, that seems like it would be a natural partner because visit Wales. I mean, obviously their job is to get as many people come to Wales as possible. but I don’t know that they feel beholden to the OTAs cause OTAs are going to do their thing anyway. where if visit Wales would work with the individual partners to provide a large platform.

You know, where they can have direct bookings and, or even provide some sort of, I don’t know. I’m just thinking out loud, but if visit Wales had a website where you could go on and book pretty much any activity that’s available in Wales, even if it was booked through that platform at a very, very, very low commission or maybe no commission or whatever, that would be tremendously helpful to the local operators. And they’re the ones who are voting. So I don’t know. seems.

Andrew Lamb (01:27:56.678)
Yeah. Yeah. mean, Visit Wales has a platform that has a good reach and any any tourism provider can be listed on it. But Visit Wales doesn’t have the desire to make it a booking platform. So. So the issue, the issue there is.

Jason Elkins (01:27:58.604)
Seems like it makes sense.

Jason Elkins (01:28:21.838)
Fair enough, mean, yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:28:26.213)
you get lots of browsing, but you don’t get the bookings from it. And it’s complicated and difficult for people to plan because there are no trip planners or you can’t collect several bits of accommodation and several experiences and collect them into one space. So that’s what I think is needed. And it needs to be as the minimal amount of clicks as possible to get somebody to make that booking.

Jason Elkins (01:28:53.378)
Yeah, because otherwise they’ll go to an OTA.

Andrew Lamb (01:28:54.407)
and it feels clunky if you go from the Visit Wales platform for example, then you’re off onto a different website and you have to learn the architecture of that website.

Jason Elkins (01:29:04.856)
that has a WhatsApp number. Book now and here’s a WhatsApp number. And the expectation, there’s a disconnect, right? And then it’s, I mean, sometimes to be fair, well, I’m going to say it. I see a lot of the conversations of the group talk about, we need more direct bookings. And the same person that’s like, I want direct bookings. I’m sick of paying da da da da da. But then you go to their website and there’s no mechanism to book on their website.

Andrew Lamb (01:29:13.007)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:29:35.013)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:29:35.15)
or just poor information in general and a WhatsApp number or a contact form that I don’t know if they’re going to respond to in three or four days. I’m like, even if I started on their website, I can see where somebody might go to an OTA and book it. you know.

Andrew Lamb (01:29:52.924)
Yeah, mean websites need to look good. They need to be functional. They need to always have core to actions to book and the booking process needs to be quick and easy. Because I’m collecting lots of different providers, as say accommodation, attraction and experiences, there are a huge number of ticketing platforms that they have, but I’ve found a way

to be able to effectively embed their booking widget or booking page within every single listing that I can put on there. So the platform is available to anybody no matter what state of, what level of booking functionality they have on their own website. And even if they don’t have any, it’s got an in-house booking system anyway. I think all the bases are covered.

Jason Elkins (01:30:30.264)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:30:46.595)
That’s cool.

Andrew Lamb (01:30:51.681)
I just need the Welsh Government to at least get behind it with a small contribution then I can start reaching out and getting the content in there. I think I’ve probably got about 50 or 60 businesses on there at the moment which is a good start but I don’t want to be putting a shout out until I’ve got more authority from a couple of local authorities and the Welsh Government behind it.

Jason Elkins (01:31:04.355)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:31:08.824)
Cool.

Jason Elkins (01:31:17.998)
What do you think if we do a little five or 10 minute video of each person that’s participating on the platform? So part of the content is a five minute clip of conversation with them on a big world, may small podcast or something like that. that, cause I think, so anyway.

Andrew Lamb (01:31:36.404)
That would be great. mean, yeah. I tell you what works better is a previous guest you had, Martin Rosenberg, I think user uploaded content. So I’ve just made that available on my app. if a user has…

Jason Elkins (01:31:48.342)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:31:52.238)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:32:00.808)
made a video like one of the people that comes out with me and they’re making their influences and they’re making tik tok videos they’ll end up with a shareable link it be a facebook upload or a video or a youtube if they i’ve made it so it’s they puts it two bits of information into the the um the form um it

it takes their video link but it links it to the product that they filmed it with so it could be an accommodation or whatever and then that goes onto a video wall which if you click on that it opens up the product it’s just great it just works really well

Jason Elkins (01:32:34.754)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:32:43.202)
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s cool because most door operator, like for example, we discussed it earlier. People out on your trip sticking videos, you’re guiding, you know, you’re, don’t want your clients to feel like they’re at a photo that they’re at a photo shoot for you. They’re there for their photo shoot, but, but you know, you don’t, it’s, it’s, know, it’s pain. It’s just not appropriate for you to be doing a bunch of video and you know,

Andrew Lamb (01:33:01.575)
Hmm. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:33:12.928)
Hey, what do you think of this strip data? You know, you can do it sometimes, but it’s uncomfortable. It’s awkward. It’s hard to set up, but your clients, your guests are videotaping stuff constantly uploading it to tick tocker, whatever for their own reasons. So if you can tap into that content, that source of content to help future people understand what it is you offer, what it is you do. I mean, that’s, that’s pretty cool.

Andrew Lamb (01:33:19.131)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:33:41.326)
and yeah, the conversation with Martin about that was, was fascinating. And the whole thing, my whole connection with him was, you know, having that conversation about, you know, video testimonials on your website instead of, know, we all have, not we all, but a lot of people have, you know, a carousel of TripAdvisor reviews. Well, that’s great, but you’ve got the TripAdvisor logo on there and like, I’m going to go to TripAdvisor and read more. Some oftentimes.

people link directly to their page on TripAdvisor, encouraging, you know, check us out on TripAdvisor. Then you, know, the, the client goes clicks or the potential client clicks goes to TripAdvisor. And then when they get to TripAdvisor to read your reviews, there’s three or four other properties, competing properties and saying, Oh, read these reviews too. And people don’t even remember where they started. And yeah, it’s a, it’s a challenge where if you had like a little carousel of

Andrew Lamb (01:34:13.787)
Yeah.

Andrew Lamb (01:34:30.716)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:34:39.982)
I don’t know, five, 10 people that are either on the experience or recently been on the experience chatting about, my gosh, how we went with Andrew. It was great. We saw, you know, he took us away from the crowds or whatever. You know mean? There’s so much value in that stuff. So very, cool.

Andrew Lamb (01:34:55.207)
Yeah, and the other thing is is Geographically locating every single product. So so that’s what I’ve done with that. So if somebody clicks they’re on the video wall, they see some like a Screen grab of a video they click on it of a waterfall they click on it They see the waterfall they like that or they click on that they’ll see the waterfall hike as a product But then underneath it they get accommodation

Jason Elkins (01:35:07.15)
Mmm.

Andrew Lamb (01:35:25.361)
free stuff to go and visit and maybe some other guided tours by other providers, you know, they, and so they, but it’s all geo-tagged. So they get stuff within an area. And I think like, this is the way to go. The way for accommodation to get bookings is to sell it through user uploaded experiences. I think it’s definitely the future of tourism.

Jason Elkins (01:35:34.978)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:35:47.564)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, it’s pretty exciting. We’ve got a lot of cool stuff with AI, both positive and negative. Everything has two sides. Actually, for me, all this AI content out there is fine because it just people want the real stuff. So they’ll come in and watch a conversation like ours and realize that there’s no AI going on here other than maybe in the show notes, maybe it’s sorted out a little bit. anyway, Andrew, this

Andrew Lamb (01:35:56.271)
Hmm. Hmm. Yep.

Jason Elkins (01:36:18.446)
Just a fun conversation. know we went a bit longer than we had planned. So I appreciate your patience and sharing so much of your time with with me and the audience and look forward to collaborating on some stuff with you in the future. Thanks for thanks for being here.

Andrew Lamb (01:36:23.943)
That’s fine.

Andrew Lamb (01:36:31.695)
Yeah, very much so. And thanks for inviting me, Jason. Thank you very much indeed.

Jason Elkins (01:36:36.906)
All right, we’ll chat with you soon. Have a good day.

Andrew Lamb (01:36:39.377)
Okay, bye.

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