Guest Bio
Bader Abdel Jawad is the Founder and Lead Guide of B Adventure, an adventure tourism company based in Jordan. With a deep passion for exploration, Bader has built a career leading trekking and canyoning expeditions across Jordan’s diverse landscapes. His expertise and commitment to providing authentic, safe, and exhilarating experiences have positioned B Adventure as a premier adventure travel company in the region. Through his work, Bader emphasizes sustainability, cultural connection, and responsible travel practices, ensuring that his guests not only experience the thrill of the outdoors but also develop a deeper appreciation for Jordan’s natural beauty and heritage.
Show Summary
In this episode, Bader Abdel Jawad shares his journey from a lifelong love of adventure to founding B Adventure. He discusses the unique challenges and rewards of guiding treks and canyoning trips, highlighting the importance of safety, environmental preservation, and cultural appreciation. Bader reflects on the skills required to lead successful adventure tours and how he has built a business centered around authentic, hands-on exploration. He also talks about the evolving landscape of adventure tourism in Jordan, the growing interest in off-the-beaten-path experiences, and his vision for the future of B Adventure. This episode offers insights into what it takes to run a successful adventure travel business and the impact of immersive outdoor experiences.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Building an Adventure Business – Turning a passion for the outdoors into a successful guiding company.
- ✓ Safety and Leadership – The importance of proper training and preparation in adventure tourism.
- ✓ Sustainability in Travel – Promoting responsible tourism to protect Jordan’s natural landscapes.
- ✓ Cultural Immersion – How adventure travel fosters deeper connections with local communities.
- ✓ Personal Growth Through Adventure – The transformative power of outdoor experiences.
What You’ll Find on B Adventure’s Platform
- ✓ Guided Treks – Expert-led hiking experiences through Jordan’s scenic trails.
- ✓ Canyoning Expeditions – Thrilling descents through Jordan’s canyons and waterways.
- ✓ Tailored Adventures – Custom itineraries designed for all skill levels.
- ✓ Safety-First Approach – Emphasis on proper training, equipment, and secure travel experiences.
- ✓ Cultural Connections – Opportunities to engage with local communities during excursions.
👉 Visit B Adventure’s Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Bader Abdel Jawad’s contributions to adventure tourism.
Learn more about B Adventure and connect with Bader at:
https://badventure.net/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast. Super excited to have all of you here and very happy to have a Bader Abdel Jawad here with us. Did I say that right? Yes, yes, perfect Jason. Hi Jason, hi. Bader is so happy to have you. You’re on the call with us from Jordan, is that correct? Are you in Jordan right now? Yeah.
Yes, I am in Jordan. I’m in Amman, the capital. Wonderful. As we were, you know, we were chatting a little bit earlier and I was telling you, I really don’t know a whole heck of a lot about Jordan. And that’s a big part of why I wanted to have this conversation with you. Cause just from a selfish perspective, I want to learn more about it. And I suspect there’s other people out there that are listening to this that may be in the same boat. So super, super happy to have you here. And first thing I to sure. I’m –
I’m here to answer all your questions. Hopefully get you to come to Jordan at some point. I don’t think it’s going to be that hard for you to convince me. I’m pretty open to just about anything and that’s been on my list for a while. So I’ve actually not been to the Middle East at all. So that would be a great place to start. Just real quick because I want to ask you this and I don’t want to forget about it. Your business name is B Adventure. Just the letter B in adventure. I want to make you the assumptions, but where did that name come from?
that came from a long way of thinking because we weren’t just doing a certain type of adventure. We weren’t doing only trekking or only cycling or canyoning. And we wanted everyone to get immersed into the adventure, into the feel of adventure. So it was be the adventure. But to get you a little bit intrigued, we removed the the and removed the E as well. So it’s be adventure. And everyone’s like, what, what does that mean? So.
It’s a way for everyone to ask about it. That is brilliant marketing. I like that. That’s very cool. I was creating some stories while it’s your first initial, your first name or something like that, but your story is actually much better than what I had created in my head. So thank you for sharing that with me. You’re welcome, but it works as better adventure as well. So if you’re in Jordan and I’m your guide, it can be better adventure as well.
Jason Elkins (03:15.746)
Whatever works for you, whatever floats your boat. So let’s, before we speak too much about Jordan, I know it’s an integral part of you and your life and obviously your business, but I really want to dig in a little bit to you. How did you get into this? I mean, usually people that are working in this business have some sort of story behind it. It’s not something that people typically just kind of, you know, decide early on.
No, no, you don’t get it. I think most people go into this kind of business. It doesn’t start as a business at all. It’s a, yeah, it starts as a hobby and it just grows slowly into becoming a business. And that’s what happened with me as well. So in my early years in university and even before that, I’m just starting with the business part. Before that, I used to take
Just go with my friends, try to get someone to take their parents car or anyone to get out of Amman and go explore someplace. And I would always say, yes, yes, I’ve been there. Of course, just let me take you to this place and you’ll enjoy. And with the days going further in university, some people actually started asking because they knew that.
This person goes on hikes, he climbs, he does this, he’s an outdoor person. So they started asking, can you organize a day hike for us? Can you organize a camping trip? Can you organize something? And it started like that. It started with one week, once a week, then once a month. And then just with time, my schedule started to fill up slowly. So it, I was going through university studying as well. So.
At the last year, it was, I hope I get done with my studies. I did. And I was in front of a chance of, should I continue along this path that I enjoy and love? Or should I go with the thing I studied? What did you study? Mechanical engineering. Oh yeah, that’s a little different. Yeah, completely different. If you think about it, when working with ropes,
Jason Elkins (05:42.254)
You get the physics, you get some systems that you can tie to mechanical engineering a little bit. I’m just getting into my head that I didn’t waste six years of my life just studying something that I didn’t use, but hopefully I’m using it. You’re finding ways to use it. And I think that maybe somebody with a little bit of that analytical bend,
or that engineering thing, I can see where that would actually be helpful in business as well. Because somebody that’s working in tourism that’s never had any real training or thought processes around problem solving, creating new things, putting things together, that that could be a challenge for them. I know that’s a challenge I have sometimes. I’m super excited about what I’m doing. But then when it comes to making all the parts on the back end,
work for a business perspective, that can be a challenge. So that, yeah, I could see where you might’ve got some benefit out of that. Was there a specific thing or a specific moment? Cause you kind of explained how it kind of just progressed more and more and more. And then you got to, okay, I’m finished with school. What am I going to do now? Was there a specific moment or thought or something that happened that just made it kind of clear like, yeah, this is the direction I need to go? Or did you just kind of – It was the clear way for me.
kind of, because I wasn’t interested in looking for another thing to do. And doing this was actually something, like I told you, I enjoy. I enjoy every single moment being outdoors, sharing the beauty, the culture, the food of Jordan with people. So somehow it was a clear choice that I should just continue along the path. And I already had some people
helping me, I had a work partner back then as well, he’s still with me right now, Ahmed. And I think there was no choice in that. You know when you have two ways, but you know, this is the clear choice. Even though it’s not the choice my father loved.
Jason Elkins (08:07.662)
But it’s the choice I love to go. It’s funny because you’re right. So there’s two choices and sometimes there’s a clear choice and then a tremendous number of people choose the other option. Even though like, yeah, this is really what I want to do. This is like, this would be so good for me. But then they go this way instead out of fear. Typically, I think, especially in the context of this conversation, they go that other route.
because of family pressure, you know, or people around them, or just stories of, you know, what is their role in society? You know, society tells us that you should get the job, you know, especially if, especially if you go to university, but you should get a job that aligns with that and then create a family and then, and all that stuff. So tell me about your dad, cause you said, it sounded like you said your dad went a different direction or was he supportive of you?
going the direction you went or what was that like? He was trying to get me into a job. He was trying to get me into a job. And although we had already people working in the company and he would always ask me, when are you going to get a real job? Yeah, I heard that a few times. I’m 50, I’m still getting that question. So a real job, I…
I don’t need to be working behind the desk, although I work behind the desk a lot of the time. But I don’t need to be behind the desk. Yeah, exactly. I don’t need to be behind the desk and get the paycheck at the end of the month and wait till the next one so it can be called a real job. Yeah. No, there’s nothing wrong with having a real job that you also enjoy. Right? And yeah, that’s, you know.
I know for me, just having like conversation like this is like, this is my job, this is your job. And we still get to have nice conversations and we’re not trying to, yeah, I get that completely. And I suspect it’s even harder. So it sounds like your dad owns a company and kind of maybe had some ideas of how you were gonna work in his company or did I get that wrong? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He works in construction.
Jason Elkins (10:29.12)
In the UAE Emirates, okay He didn’t want me to work with him, but He wanted me to pursue my career in engineering and engineering. Yeah, it’s it’s Like it has a great Growth along the way you get like into great pages, but not everyone gets Into great pieces if they don’t enjoy working the thing they do
Yeah, no, it’s, I, I know at one period of time I was working with a lot of clients doing some pretty amazing trips and they, you know, doctors, lawyers, engineers, all of those, those things. And, you know, granted they’re in a position where they can afford to go on these great big adventures and that’s great. But I tell you, every single one of them would be like, Jason, I want your job. Man, I wish I, wish I had your job. You must have the best job in the whole world.
Like, well, my bank account didn’t always reflect that. But I’ll tell you what, I was still sitting on the helicopter with them, flying through Patagonia, going fly fishing in the Patagonia Andes. And their bank account looked different, but I was doing what I wanted to do a lot more frequently than they were, because I was able to do what I wanted to do while I was working. So I didn’t have that time struggle that they had.
His time is really the limiting factor for all of us in our lives. Yeah. Yeah. So Jason, if you think about it, the kids usually say the truth. So whenever you meet the child, they’re always then they don’t know how to lie. They don’t lie. So get the kid and show him to people, two ways of life. And he’ll tell you, I want this, this job. I want to do this when I grow up.
That’s the thing when we have younger families the kids are like dad Can I grow up and do this as a job when I grow up? Is it is it possible? And I always tell I tell the kids yes, of course it is just Work hard and study hard. It’s not just like if you want to become a guy you have to be like you don’t study You don’t do anything yet. No, but do everything like It’s supposed to
Jason Elkins (12:52.654)
and then do whatever you want, 100%. You said something really important there. You said, daddy, can I be? Yeah. Right? So that’s like when kids are looking at the world, they know what they want to do, but they’re not sure. They look to parents, they look to sometimes, unfortunately, friends or teachers. I mean, I think it’s good to have mentors, but they look around and say, can I do this?
because they don’t know, they know they want to. So you have to be so careful how you respond with kids because if you say no, if enough people say no, that’s how dreams are killed. Yeah, they get the idea out of their head. That’s it. Okay, I can’t do that. So I’m going to quit thinking about that. That’s not a possibility for me. And then later on in life, they’re 40, they’re 50, they’re miserable. They’re looking out of a sky -rise building.
down on the street and they see someone walking by enjoying their lives and like, man, I wish I was down there. But the difference was their parents, you know, the person doing what they want to do, the person walking around with the backpack and the surfboards dropped on the back was told something different when they were young. When they said, I want to, I want to travel the world and be a, you know, a surfer guide. I’m just making stuff up at this point. You know, they got one response and the guy up inside the
you know, the tower in his office, his corner office was told, no, you can’t do that. You’re not, you’ll never be able to make money doing that. That’s the big one, right? It’s just, how are you like when a parent or somebody says, how are you going to make money doing that? Like that’s their first response. I want to do this. Well, how are you going to make money doing that? Or, you know, you can make money out of anything. You can make money out of anything. That’s the thing. That’s easier. It’s easier when you enjoy it. Yes. Yes. I believe that.
anything you enjoy at a certain point can become your income. Anything, anything, anything. I’m not like an expert in each field, but.
Jason Elkins (15:02.862)
I didn’t know that I will be working in tourism. I never knew that, like, how much guides me or whatever. But every single thing you can enjoy, every single hobby. All the jobs I had were from things I enjoyed. I used to be a swimmer in high school, 10th grade. I started coaching. I started learning. I learned how to teach swimming.
And I started coaching for some years until university and it was my income as well. So I enjoyed being in the pool. I enjoyed teaching kids how to swim, how to do the different strokes. And now some of the kids I taught, I see them on Instagram or Facebook or whatever. I see them like…
Oh, we got the first place in the Asian competition. We got this first place at the Arabic games or whatever they do. And it’s a huge, it’s not just, it’s not all about money. Of course you need money to live. You need, but when you get the feel, when I feel this great accomplishment that I taught this kid breaststroke like nine or 10 years ago, and now they’re doing something great with it. Yeah.
It’s a great accomplishment for me too. It’s not just for the swimmer themselves. Oh yeah, if you can be a part of inspiring somebody to do what they want to do, you know, and create a life for themselves. Because we all have that opportunity to create a life for ourselves. I’m aware there’s people that have had really horrible things and difficult challenges come up in their lives.
And I get that, but I think it’s great what you’re saying. I love that. Now, do you have a family now as well? Yes, yes. I’m married and I have two endorphins, two girls. All right. How old are they? Seven months. Holy cow. Well, I got to say this. I think they’re pretty lucky because if you still have the same mindset when they’re
Jason Elkins (17:22.478)
When they’re five and six and seven and they’re asking questions about what can I do? And you still have that same mindset. How lucky is that they fell into the right spot twins? Hopefully they’ll get everything. The best thing that I can offer them. I trust they will. I was actually pretty fortunate growing up. My, my father, he was an accountant. My, my parents got married. He was an accountant. He was a CFO for a big mining company out in Wyoming. And.
when I was probably six or seven, I guess a little older than that, maybe around 10, 10, 11 or something like that, he quit his job and he got the state of Wyoming to buy him a hot air balloon. He’s fairly persuasive and he convinced the state of Wyoming where we live to buy him a hot air balloon. And the plan was he was gonna travel around the country with the balloon in the back of the pickup and we were gonna go from town to town and go to balloon festivals and fly the balloon and.
promote the state of Wyoming. It said Wyoming down the sides, had a big bucking horse on it. So when I was like 11 or 12, we started spending our summers doing that with him. And I started learning to fly balloons when I was 12. And in some ways I was a little bit out of touch with, put unquote, reality, because that was the model I saw. I saw my dad traveling around, flying hotter balloons, making friends in every town and doing this total random thing. And I thought everybody’s parents did stuff like that.
You know, so at some point I kind of, you know, left and went and got around a group of people that were a little bit more traditional. And I just realized, man, I’m not sure how to fit in here. I don’t like, I was starting to meet people. You mean your parents didn’t travel in the summers? You didn’t fly balloons? What did you do? What did you do? Yeah, what were you doing? I mean, oh my gosh, that sounds horribly boring. And.
I was in relationship with people that thought I was weird, you know, as a young single man, you’re like, I want to meet people. I want to get, you know, create relationships and stuff like that. And it’s very, very, it’s very unlikely that I’m going to bump into somebody else that’s in the group the same way. So I, I actually created, got in the story. Well, okay. In order for me to be like, not single for me to be in a relationship, I need to change. I need to.
Jason Elkins (19:47.31)
not be like my dad, I need to be something else. And it took me a few years to kind of figure out that that didn’t really work for me. It took me a long time. My last relationship I was in for 18 years. So it took me a while. But anyway, I digress. Did you act normal? Did you act normal in that relationship? I tried really hard. Normal. So when you say normal, yes. I tried to act normal.
from other people’s definition of the word normal. Yeah, that’s what I’m asking you. Yeah, I did the job. I had the house, the car, the dog, the cat, the… And I don’t regret it. I mean, those memories are amazing. I have an amazing 17 -year -old son who I’m working with to help encourage him in the same way to just do what he wants to do. He’s traveled the world with me. He spends his summers. Last summer, we spent…
a couple months in Southeast Asia, the summer before was Central America, Guatemala and all that type of thing. So I’m at the point now where I’m like, okay, I see the value that I got from my dad. I also recognize the challenges because maybe he didn’t do the best job setting expectations with me. He should have said, Jason, we’re doing all this cool stuff, but please understand when other people are not going to quite get it. So I’m working with my son now to help him see both sides of it so he can choose what he wants to do.
Well, that’s I think that’s the best thing you can do. That’s there. You give him the the imagine like the thing that you can do the life you can have and the other life you can have. And you can choose whatever suits you best. It’s absolutely. And I mean, I can say the last several years I’ve been traveling full time for two years now. And the last few years before that, as frankly as the marriage.
we finally figured out we weren’t really aligned. And I was doing real estate. I was selling residential real estate in Arizona, which in my mind is like the complete opposite of adventure travel and tourism. And it was just like all the houses in Arizona looked the same. It was just, I met some great people. And at the same time, I felt like I was gouging my eyeballs with ice picks. And that’s what Jackson saw, you my son from the age of
Jason Elkins (22:09.358)
probably 11 to 15 or so, that’s what I was doing. And frankly, I was quite miserable. Every weekend I was sitting in an open house, you know, with, I’d put out signs and say, come see me at my open house. And it just wasn’t for me. So he got to see kind of the unhappy side of me. And then as I started traveling again and really getting back into tourism, it’s, he’s able to see the happy me, my relationship, even though I’m not with him quite as often, when I am with him, we’re doing some pretty cool stuff and my relationship with him is much better.
He’s happier, I’m happier. So anyway, I’m not sure his mom still thinks my plan is great, but. Yeah, but I don’t think anyone got the same childhood that you did. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. And I got a lot out of it. So I want him to have the same. But anyway, so I think your daughters are super, super fortunate to, you know, to.
I just imagine their future being exposed to all this stuff. It’s really, really cool. What’s the, one of the things I wrote down that I really want to chat with you about, cause I know that it is an issue, especially for Americans when they travel anywhere they travel, oftentimes the thing that comes up is safety. And the, the less they know about a place, the more that conversation comes up, you know, and sometimes they go to a place and then afterwards they like, Oh, I don’t know why I was worried.
Um, but sometimes they are ahead of time and the Middle East sometimes is one of those places that we just don’t know so much about. So exactly. The Middle East is a really weird region because it’s, uh, and especially Jordan located in the middle of all conflict areas. So Jordan is located between, we have a city in the North Iraq and the East Saudi Arabia, which is.
find the South and Palestine, Israel on the West. So on all sides, except for Saudi Arabia, we have conflicts. So everyone assumes whenever something happens in one of the countries, that all of the countries are affected by them. Well, just the fact I say the Middle East, like that is the Middle East is the Middle East to a lot of people. Africa is Africa.
Jason Elkins (24:36.206)
to a lot of people. It’s not just the Middle East is not one country. It’s different countries, different. So Jordan, for example, is like this safe zone, the safe region of even in the what is known as conflict areas, Iraq, Syria, Palestine. Some of them are they’re usually safe. They just have.
Hot zones, hot times. But for Jordan, Jordan is totally safe. So Jordan is the safe zone of the whole region. I can say that everyone that comes to Jordan has a completely different experience than what they expected, especially from someone who thinks that, OK, the Middle East is dangerous. The Middle East has some problems. So when they come to Jordan, they’re
There’s nothing. I mean, as like a safety, people are welcoming. People are, I can’t say anything more than welcoming. They’re just welcoming. Wherever you go, Jason, you’re walking in the street today. This morning I was on a hike. People were just welcome, welcome, welcome. They don’t know what, what nationality, what religion, what gender, race, whatever you are, they’re super welcome.
to everyone, they just welcome everyone to their homes, they invited us for lunch, we were like, come on guys, we can’t, that’s super nice of you, they insist, insist, insist, and you have to keep avoiding that because you have some, you have a schedule, you have to stick to your schedule, but everyone wants to invite you to coffee, at least they’ll say, okay, if you’re not having lunch, at least drink some coffee with us, the father, the mother, whoever is on the street.
call the son, the daughter, fast, go home, bring the coffee before they leave. You have two minutes. Yeah, hurry up, just get the coffee and come back. And we’re waiting on the street. We drink some coffee and chat a little bit and then leave. So that happens every single day in Jordan. Even if you’re walking, even if you’re hiking in the middle of nowhere, you’ll find the family somewhere or you’ll find a shepherd.
Jason Elkins (27:01.07)
that will invite you back to his house. You’re walking anyway, so let’s walk to my house and then we’ll have the dinner, lunch, or whatever it is at our place. So I think that gives you an idea of Jordan. Just what you said, yeah. Just what you said right there, I can imagine somebody that has a preconception of the Middle East and goes to Jordan,
And how’s that experience? Like, this totally changes the entire perception. Just you describing it is, I can imagine. Jason, if you leave your phone somewhere in the street or in a building, if you don’t find it in the same place, you’ll find it at the reception at the Lost and Found. Yeah, that’s cool. So you can leave something you can.
By mistake, leave your wallet somewhere. It happened to me like two weeks ago maybe. In a public place, I left my wallet. I forgot about it. Two hours went, then I remember that I left it there. It was in the exact same place with everything in it. So you can imagine, yeah, we don’t mind sometimes we leave our campsite.
in the middle of the desert. We we put our temporary campsite, our tents. I don’t think anywhere else in the world, not of course there are some places, but that you can leave everything the way it is. You have your socks hanging on the tent, everything, you’re drying your shoes, whatever you’re doing. You can go for the whole day, do whatever your activity is, climb, hike.
whatever you want and come back in the evening, you’ll find everything the way it is, even if there were people there, even if there were no people and people passed by, it’s always the same, the same situation. But have you been to the US? Have you been, have you had the opportunity? No, not yet. Not yet. Okay. So I, and I suspect you probably, I mean, it’s normal for everybody to have perceptions about places based on a variety of things and you’re,
Jason Elkins (29:22.862)
And you’re probably unique in the sense that you’ve interacted with an awful lot of people from the U S and, and you have colleagues and connections and you probably know a lot more about the U S than a lot of people that have never been. Um, and the reason I’m asking this is because when you’re describing this stuff and I’m thinking, wow, the irony that I asked you about, you know, that I brought this subject up and there’s people from the U S that are worried about visiting Jordan because of safety.
And it’s almost like, oh boy, they have like what you just know. It’s like, oh yeah. It’s almost probably feels, I would imagine it feels strange to try and help people repeatedly. Cause I’m pretty sure what you just told me, I’m pretty sure you’ve had to tell a few other people that before they paid their deposits to come to you. And it’s like, oh, isn’t that interesting that the guy from Oakland or Detroit or St. Louis, Missouri.
is asking you about safety on their trip to Jordan. And it’s great that they ask, but I mean, it’s sometimes it’s like, yeah, you’ll be safer here than you are probably back home. I guess we’re in going with that. Because I can relate to that. I’m in Columbia right now. There’s an awful lot of Americans that probably wouldn’t go to Columbia for the same reason. And what they don’t, what they just don’t see how great the people are in these places. And what you just described is like, wow, that’s right up my alley. Because that’s, I’m.
I love just meeting people like that. So that’s cool. Thank you for sharing that. In every single country there is the bad side, but there’s the majority that people don’t know about. The majority is the good. Yeah, you don’t hear about that. Yeah, you only hear about the one situation that someone had their tooling somewhere. I don’t know how it happened, but it’s one incident.
It happens everywhere, of course, but everything else is you never hear about it. Well, and that’s really a big part of why I’m doing this podcast. It’s, you the name of the podcast. We talked about the name of your business. Mine is big world made small. And it’s like, that’s what it is for me is because it is a big world, especially if you don’t travel. But once you start traveling, once you start meeting new people from new cultures, all of a sudden the world gets a lot smaller. And I did this, I came up.
Jason Elkins (31:51.47)
business name right after I had first gone to Asia. This was just this past year. I had gone to Asia and I thought as soon as I got there, I was like Asia has always been so far away in my mind. And now I’m here. Yeah, it’s like I was on the plane. But and I’m like, yeah, things are different here. You know, it’s different, but there’s still people and it felt like it didn’t feel like it was that far away. I mean, the plane flight, it was a long plane flight. I’m not going to.
However, it’s just the flight, but people are the same. Yeah, you know, the language difference, whatever. There are small differences between cultures, languages, but people at the end, we’re all one, we’re all people, we’re all human beings. And we, we, we feel the same feelings. We have the same things we, whatever we do, it’s like at the end, when we talk, if we have the mutual language, whatever it is,
we can there’s no issue in that. You know I think the quickest way to see that is when you see families. So for me for example you know one of the one of the spots I stayed actually for quite a while was Malaysia. It’s my first Muslim country or you know Islamic country and people were dressed different but you know what they’re walking down you know through the malls around the street holding their kids hands and
tweeting their kids, looking at their kids with the same adoration and love that anybody else in the world does. And I didn’t think I had any sort of preconceived ideas about the Islam world, because I felt like I’m pretty open -minded. I love everybody. And when I got there and I noticed that, just the fact that I was so surprised that everybody was interacting the way they were was like, oh, I think I did have a preconceived idea. I think maybe I did have some biases.
And I didn’t realize I had them until I saw just how like everybody’s just the same. And I’ve been to 30 some countries and it took that trip to Malaysia for me to realize that, oh, I really had some ideas that are kind of, I’m just going to say stupid. And all these ideas in my head rolling around. And it was just so cool to really connect with that. So I just think everybody should travel. I think like – 100%. Oh my gosh.
Jason Elkins (34:19.054)
I think a lot of these problems we have in the world would go away. They should all just take a tour together, enjoy the experience, and they would solve all the problems. Yeah. I say we watch in the news and start traveling. Yeah, exactly. Those two things, the world would be totally different. Yeah, whoever is in conflict, just get them on an experience together. They’ll just get what the issue is. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it’s amazing. We connect so easily with people when we’re in close proximity and not watching it through a news channel or some news media type thing. Even there’s, I went into this beautiful little Iraqi market in Phoenix. That was before my trip to Asia. And I really had, the only exposure I’d ever had to Iraq really honestly was.
just the news, watching stuff. And I was in the army around the time some of that was going on. I didn’t deploy. Um, and I walked in this little market. These people are the sweetest people. Like they were so nice. You’re like giving us some catlip hot samples and here you should try this and you should try that. And I didn’t even know as I racked, yeah. I finally asked them like, well, where, where are you? Yeah. Like where am I? Cause you’re, you’re so it’s like you described just like so gracious.
And I’m not knocking any cultures at all. I’m not knocking the United States culture, but that doesn’t happen when I go into a typical market anywhere else. You know, the carnicerías, kind of the Mexican meat markets and butcher shops and stuff are great. And that maybe that’s, I just love that stuff. That’s why I travel. But yeah, there’s so many opportunities to meet great people, even if you can’t travel. Like if you, for some reason, can’t travel right now, listen to podcasts.
You know, listen to people that are not spreading fear and all this stuff. So I, I’m off on a rant. So thank you for indulging me. So, and the other thing is, okay, so we talked to that was, that was amazing. And I also realized there’s not that much I know about Jordan Wadi Rum. That’s, that’s it. That’s my last, um, I guess there’s, I guess there’s a river there. People like to go visit.
Jason Elkins (36:44.168)
religious pilgrimages and stuff like that, but tell me, tell me some stuff that people just don’t realize that you have there. So I just spent 13 days in Jordan with two people that didn’t visit neither Petra or Wadi Rum or the Dead Sea. Well, we passed by the Dead Sea and they just, we just passed by the Dead Sea, but we spent – I’m happy you brought up Petra.
I’m happy about it, Petra. That was on my list. I guess I just like that one. But yeah. OK. So usually when people visit Jordan, we have to include Petra, Wadi Rum, and the Dead Sea, the main three sites. But everything else is kind of on the way or it’s just attached to the main sites. So what we try to do, OK, we.
Personally, what we try to do is just get you away from the busy site. You will visit Petra, you will visit Wadi Rum. Wadi Rum is amazing. It’s like no other desert. Okay, there are many deserts all over the world, but having the sandstone mountains, the beautiful red colors, the different layers in the stone, just amazing. I don’t know. I think you’ve seen the Martian.
Yeah, I was going to ask you because my understanding, yeah, they film a lot of that really cool movies and stuff in those areas. So for anybody listening that hasn’t, you know, yeah, that’s a good. Yeah. So the Martian was shot, was filmed in the, in Wagram and many other movies, many other amazing Hollywood.
Aladdin was finger. I don’t know if it’s Disney or whatever. So when they’re looking so when they’re looking for someone that’s like an like an otherworldly, otherworldly. That’s where they go. They come to Jordan. Yes. You get the chance to stay in a whatever type of accommodation you can do wild camps, you can do family, family, like home stays, small hotels, dive centers, hotels, Bedouin camps.
Jason Elkins (39:06.702)
the Martian bubbles, the domes. So all of this is just available. And let’s start with the east a little bit, which is usually overlooked. It’s people don’t know much about the east of Jordan. And it is almost empty, but there are amazing things you can do. So for example, just heading one hour away from the capital, from Oman, you get the
It’s the natural reserve. It’s a wetland reserve. It’s… that a wetland reserve? Wetland reserve in the desert. See, my mind just blew there. It just blew my mind. Wetland, okay. I never would have thought of that. There’s an oasis in the middle of the desert. Of course, it’s been endangered for a while. And we have…
and a society in Jordan that’s the Royal Society for Conservation of Nature, RCN. And they do great work here in Jordan and they try to conserve the last bits of this wetland. We have some buffalos there. We have some in the middle of the desert to have water buffalos next to the oasis. So it gives you a little bit of the diversity you have. So you’re going east, you’re going to the desert. It’s…
It’s an amazing place. You go there, all the rocks are black because there was a volcano millions of years ago. But if you just scratch the surface, you start seeing the sand, you start seeing the different parts of the desert. And there’s in the middle of the black stone desert, the Basalt, there’s a white desert, a completely white sandstone, white, not yellow, not orange, it’s white.
desert in the middle of the blackness around it. That’s some of the sites that are usually overlooked. And if you go, you can go east all the way to Iraq and there are more and more places to visit. It’s mostly outdoor places. It’s not like the archaeological sites or historical sites, but there are lots of caves, for example, we can do caving there.
Jason Elkins (41:33.798)
cycling, hikes, some four by four off -roading there. So you can do two, three nights easily where people don’t even stay spend the night. There are some historical sites, some Islamic castles that were built there for different purposes. But so you can combine everything that’s just in the east of Jordan that
So now let’s go to the main site. So East is usually just forgotten. It’s locked part. So when you go to the West and let’s start from the North to South. From the North, when you stand at Umqais, there’s an archaeological site, a Roman site. Beautiful place. You can see Syria, Palestine.
It’s like the borders of three countries. So you’re standing in Jordan, you can see Syria and Palestine. It’s all green valleys.
It’s like the grass might be like two meters high, which is around six feet. I’m just, I did the math in my head. Then you had the little bit south in Ajlo and in Jarosz, there are many forests. So we have 3 % of our land in Jordan has forests and 99 % of these forests,
are in these two cities. So most of these two cities are kind of Mediterranean climate. You have forests, you have everywhere you go in Jordan, there’s history. Like Jordan was inhabited for thousands and maybe million, I don’t know about millions, but thousands of years. And you can see that this Romans were there, the Greek were there.
Jason Elkins (43:37.102)
and Nabataeans were there. There are lots of time, I’m not talking about history, I’m just talking about the sites, the places, the cities. So when you go down from the forest, you go back a little bit, you go down to Amman, which is the capital. You can, Amman is a great city, it’s just like any other city in anywhere in the world. It’s…
Super busy the we have we have skyscrapers we have Everything that’s a city. Yeah, and then yeah, it’s a city It’s but people usually when they come to Amanda that’s what why I’m just talking about it a little bit people just and Assume people are riding camels in the desert so with me they assume that we don’t have cars or they assume that me and my wife and my girls I
just take our camel and go, for example, to visit their parents with. Well, unfortunately, no, you’re you’re you’re right. I get it. And on one hand, I can I can see why, because what we see of the Middle East is not that stuff. What we see is usually conflict areas. What we see are are people that are are struggling with bombs and stuff. And so.
It’s, yeah, we just don’t naturally think of, you know, this major metropolitan area with all the modern amenities, unless you travel, unless you go to places like that, it’s really hard to get your head around. And Jason, even some people who travel here, they don’t get to see all the aspects or the sides of Jordan. They get to see Petra, where the camels are waiting for you to take some pictures. Oh, yeah, that’s true. So you go, even people who visit, they…
also show the same picture that was shown from the different sides as well. Because that’s what they put on their Instagram or whatever, their families and friends to see, right? Of course, you’ll see them taking a camel ride in Petra, taking camel ride in Wadi Rum, taking a jeep tour in Wadi Rum or whatever they is the… And they don’t get to meet people, they don’t get to meet the families even in the small villages.
Jason Elkins (46:06.35)
people that assume maybe they don’t do, they’re all shepherds or they’re all farmers or whatever. You meet the small families in the small villages and you understand that, okay, we’re getting it wrong. People are doing, even in small villages, you have doctors, you have engineers, you have teachers, you have the guides, you have an accountant, you have everyone, you have everything in every single place. So it’s…
You have to meet the people, you know, you can’t just assume something just from the picture. So it’s a… Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. Hey, I’m curious because I see the tremendous value of somebody visiting a place like Jordan with somebody like yourself or your team, because you’re able to really help them connect with the local people and see things that you’re just not going to see if you’re not with somebody like you guys.
And I’m curious, so if someone like myself, fairly adventurous, obviously probably looked like I didn’t grow up in Amman, but if I got on a plane and flew to Amman and looked like an Airbnb for a few weeks, rented a car, just hopped in the car, drove around the countryside, what would my experience be like? Is that doable? Is that popular? Is that what comes up? That’s totally doable.
you’ll have lots of you’ll meet lots of people in the villages in the small cities or everywhere and you’ll get to try a lot of their food. We know we me I’m talking about me and the guys in Europe we know a way of getting around the invites but you guys you can. Okay.
Every like in every village you want to pay a dime to get food you’ll just have breakfast at someone’s house and then you’ll be invited to lunch and dinner and you’ll have the someone wanting to show you their village the sights around. Let me show you where my cousin went. We went hiking the other day we did we camped there.
Jason Elkins (48:26.034)
Me and my parents go barbecue there whatever their interesting thing whatever interesting they have in their village their town their city They will show it to you. That’s cool. What about what about language? What should I know about language? So everyone of course, it’s an Arabic country. So everyone speaks Arabic and the majority of people do speak English So everyone in Jordan in school, they learn English
Some just don’t practice along with them as they grow up. So they just forget. But everyone else speaks English. Maybe not perfectly, maybe not fluently, but you’ll get by. And that’s even better because… Yeah, what I have found is that if people have had some English in school or something like that, regardless, maybe they forgot a bunch of it.
They generally are still excited to speak to someone like myself. You know, a good example is in Columbia. Most of the people here do not speak English. Some of them learned some in school and the ones that learned some in school back in the day usually are excited to use a few words. So they’re like, they’re not too intimidated. They’re like much more likely to try and speak to you. And of course I’m speaking Spanish not very well.
but I’m speaking Spanish. So because I’m speaking Spanish and they know a little English, it’s like we can kind of both be a little embarrassed and awkward together and it’s okay. Whereas somebody that doesn’t speak any English, never learned any English. And if the person that’s in front of them isn’t trying to speak any Spanish, they may be reluctant because they don’t want to admit that they don’t, you know, it’s awkward, it’s very uncomfortable. So in Jordan, if what I hear you saying is if…
Last majority of people have some exposure to English at some point. I can see where that would work better. I think that’s That’s pretty cool. And I probably won’t learn Arabic when I go to Jordan. I’m guessing No, you will learn some work. I’ll learn a few words. Yeah So whenever we start the tour whenever we start I meet people so the first word I teach them it’s a little silent welcome because Everywhere we go
Jason Elkins (50:50.318)
you’ll hear this everywhere you go you’ll hear ahlan wa sahlan welcome welcome come on in come on in and the second word is tamam so when i’m when talking to people i’m just telling them um we’re going to do one two three four tamam i tell them it’s like in for some reason i can’t say okay okay i tell them tamam you have to reply tamam so tamam is like okay okay
Tamam? Exactly. Tamam? Tamam. No, I tell people. Tamam? Tamam. Okay. Then that’s okay. Well, okay is such a like, okay is a good word. Even in English, it’s just like, okay, I’m communicating with you. Whatever it could have so different, so many different meanings, right? Yeah. Yeah. That’s cool. Oh man. I’m, I got a, I’m, I, you’ve sold me. Do you work for the Ministry of Tourism there as well? Or I mean, that was, I’m like, that sounds amazing. I’m,
I’m kind of regretting that I haven’t been yet. So, okay. I’m coming. You should plan it soon. You should plan it soon. I am. And I have a feeling that when I come there, we’ll do some more podcast episodes in person, on site, because I can just tell there’s going to be some really interesting people to meet there. I can just… 100%. The way you describe it. Okay. We covered a lot. We’ve been chatting for a while. Is there anything that…
I’m going to chat with you again. We’re going to do this again, but is there anything right now that you really think that I should have asked or something that you want to get out to anybody that’s listening either about, you know, your beautiful country, your business or anything at all? So Jason, we just talked a little bit about me, the company, a little bit about the company and a little bit about Jordan. We still didn’t cover the rest of the, of Jordan because I just reached Amman.
We still have all the time. I know, I know. Well, I don’t have anything going on. What are a couple more highlights that because I what I just heard you say was Jason, there’s so much more we have. We just barely scratched surface. So give me a couple of highlights that people can like because one of the great things about medias, we’ve got YouTube, we’ve got your website. You’re a great resource. So give us a couple of teasers and then I’m going to encourage people to reach out directly to you.
Jason Elkins (53:17.742)
to have a conversation and figure out what’s the right place for them. So Jason, it depends on for everyone, but I personally love canyoning. Canyoning is walking in a canyon, up sailing, sliding, jumping. It’s like it’s the best activity that you can have with a family, friends, even alone. Well, alone, I would always get you with some people. So don’t worry about it. You’ll.
You’ll never be alone, but unless you want to. So for me, canyoning is one of the best experiences.
Jason Elkins (53:59.31)
There are many canyons in Jordan you can do on your own with the guide or with a guide. So just going south of Amman, I’m thinking about canyoning, visiting Petra, Wadi Rum, the Dead Sea, the main sites, but also don’t forget Aqaba. It’s usually overlooked. The city by the sea, we have the Red Sea, we have a short coastline on the Red Sea, but it is amazing. The reef is…
beautiful. It’s really well conserved. The variety of fish, the sites you can do the dive, the snorkeling. So there are many things to do. I feel like you mentioned that you mentioned the canyoning and I’m so happy you did because I remember our first conversation you told me about that. I was like, okay, I can kind of picture what that looks like. And I’ve done that.
I didn’t call it canyoning, but there have been a couple times I walked off of a mountain through a canyon. It wasn’t necessarily a plan. But so on the canyoning, is that I imagine you can do a day trip, but is that something you do overnight trips as well? So canyons, there are just day trips, like you just said, and there are two days, just an overnight, one night in the canyon. There are technical canyons that include up -sailing. So.
some ropes included, some gear that you have to carry. But there are other kinds. I heard you say the word. Upsailing. Upsailing or rappelling. I don’t know what word you use. OK, rappelling. No, I appreciate the clarification. Yeah, I know what is rappelling. But so where you need to use some gear, ropes, stuff like that to get over obstacles or down them. Exactly. Yeah, OK. 100%. So we have a variety of both. So you can do one day of.
just walking in a canyon, which is technically maybe gorge walking as some people would say or just easy canyoning. And then you can do some with some water, some slides, some pools, and then you can go to the technical, more technical. You can start with the easy stuff. If you’re just a beginner, you’re just getting introduced to canyoning.
Jason Elkins (56:24.014)
or you can do the 100 meter repels down a waterfall. So we have a huge variety. You can do it on one or two days. For someone that has not been repelling, because I am envisioning a situation where you’ve got clients, probably every group, you’ve got somebody in the group that has never been repelling. And I don’t think if you’ve never been repelling, I don’t think it’s easy to understand how rewarding that can be.
for someone’s self -esteem, confidence, it’s exciting and it’s a big thing to overcome. The adrenaline rush you get when you’re just getting off the side of the waterfall or cliff or whatever, it’s just overwhelming. But before we get to that point, we do a briefing about the equipment, how to use the equipment and we also let you try it.
on horizontal ground. So you’re not just you’re not thrown on the vertical thing right away. You’re not thrown on a waterfall or on a cliff right away. You try it in your comfort zone in a place you’re familiar with. You get the feel of the rope. You understand how everything works. And then when you’re on the actual vertical line, you get a chance of like you get the
feel that, okay, I did this, this is similar to the one we did, it’s just vertical. Now, this is the only difference, that’s the only difference you get. So you get a little bit off from the fear of not trusting the gear, not trusting the rope, because usually people don’t understand that the rope they’re hanging on or the anchors or whatever, it’s just, believe me, it’s…
carries a lot of people. It’s not just one person. Sometimes we have like a hundred kilogram person, around 200 pounds just asking me, will the rope hold me? I always say inshallah, like hopefully. I think so. I think you’re good. Let’s try it. Let’s find out. Exactly. Exactly. So it’s, it carries like, it’s not the…
Jason Elkins (58:45.806)
The rope, the systems, the equipment, when they’re well maintained and of good quality, they’re never the issue. Well, yeah, those ropes are rated, you know, five, six, seven, ten times the load you would probably put on it. I mean, you’re more of a climber than I am, but it’s, but and it’s, it’s really just overcoming that innate fear that we have as humans about falling. You know, it’s a normal fear. It’s a healthy fear.
gravity doesn’t say the word gravity doesn’t fuck around. And it’s important to realize that and overcoming that, that ledge thing, right? There’s there’s a lot of people, some people can walk up to a ledge, but actually going over the ledge over that no matter, no matter how great the ropes are, no matter how great the people are with you, you’re still going to overcome that internal fear. And I’ll actually think, because I’ve done both, I’ve jumped out of airplanes, I’ve done a lot of repelling.
I actually think repelling was, I mean, I guess I did that first. So it was a little bit more challenging, but I still think it’s a legitimate challenge because when you’re repelling, you’re closer to the ground. When you’re the first couple, first hundred feet or so off the ground is typically where you have the most depth perception. So it’s real. It’s like, it looks real. You’re familiar with it. You’re used to looking at things that are within a hundred feet.
jumping out of an airplane, you’re so high off the ground, it’s not even real. The ground just looks flat, there’s no depth perception. So you’re not overcoming, I mean, obviously you’re probably a little anxious about jumping out of the plane, but you don’t have the visual cues messing with you. When you’re rappelling or bungee jumping, you’ve got that depth perception thing is very real. You’re like, oh, you can see the ground, you can imagine the ground coming up and smacking you in the forehead. Yeah, you can imagine what’s happening.
Yeah, so even somebody that’s been skydiving, I think will get a kick out of repelling. So I’m happy we had that conversation. They were. Ah, very cool. Any crazy stories?
Jason Elkins (01:00:54.51)
not of losing people. I don’t want to know you’ve never lost any. We have like we have 10 % of we can I can lose someone in the canyon. It’s fine. So I can leave them there. It’s the 10 % 10 % rule there in Jordan. Yes, the 10 % policy. So when if we have a group of 10 people, I can just lose one. It’s fine. You come back with nine. You just have to count them.
Yeah, I don’t think they’re just like nothing happened. It’s fine. Did I tell you that I’m going to use this podcast? We’re going to cut up this into little clips for sick talk. So be careful what you say. Okay. No, but it’s a joke. We don’t, we didn’t use anyone. We don’t have a 10 % policy, but it’s, or if you’re the, if you’re the one that, if you’re the one that we do leave in the Canyon, we’ll refund your credit card.
Yeah, that’s fine. That’s fine. Exactly. Okay with that money back guarantee if we don’t bring you back to the back to camp then back to safety. But yeah, when money you’ll have your money back to your credit card. I had a I had a hot air balloon ride business. And yeah, it was kind of some of those same jokes, you know, that would would come up and like, well, if if if you know, if I don’t get you back to town or whatever, you don’t have to pay me or people all the time. It’s a it’s so interesting.
My passengers quite often, I say all the time, but let’s say quite often, like they book based on my website, they’d book based on my reviews, whatever they’d meet me. Some people didn’t really spend a lot of time planning. They’re just like, I’m in town, I want a balloon ride. I came up first, so they booked it. Anyway, we’d be in the balloon, a thousand feet off the ground and somebody would look over me and say, how long you been doing this? Like, how can you not like,
Oh, I’m gonna watch about 10 minutes, 15 minutes. This is I just got my license last week. How am I doing? That’s the same exact thing. Like, how long have you been doing this? Like for canyoning? It’s I just it’s you’re my first group actually. So I’m quite what time did we meet? If anything happens, just please forgive me everything. I’ll try to make it as safe as possible.
Jason Elkins (01:03:20.438)
in a place where I’ve been more than a hundred times. So, yeah. It was just always interesting to me because I’m like.
What made you wait that long? Cause now we’re in it, especially in the Why did you wait until now to ask me how long I’ve been doing this? That’s not, doesn’t seem very bright. You know, you probably should have asked me before we took off or something, because at this point it’s like, it doesn’t matter what I say, you know, cause or it doesn’t even really matter what the truth is because we’re up in the air and, and most people have never been in a balloon. Like you don’t know.
You can’t even imagine what a landing is like in a hot air balloon if you’ve never been in a hot air balloon. So like in a plane, sometimes I used to have this idea that if something happened to the pilot, I might be OK. I might be able to because I’ve watched movies. I’m like, I can probably figure out how to land it, which is ridiculous because I don’t know how to fly an airplane. But with the balloon, it’s like it’s like what are you going to do? Yeah, exactly. So what happens to me if something happens to me, what are you going to do? But anyway, that’s the.
So we mentioned the Canyon Ring, I mentioned a lot of different activities. You’ve got a lot of great stuff going on. I’m going to have the link to your website in the show notes so people can obviously connect with you through there and find you on social media and all that good stuff. Any parting words that you want anybody to hear before they reach out to you or before they, oh, actually maybe this is, maybe this is a good question.
Who is Jordan not for? So sometimes it’s easy to say, oh, it’s for people like this, people like that. Sometimes it’s just easier to say who it’s not for. It’s for everyone. It’s for everyone. Because there is something for everyone to do. Whether you’re an adrenaline junkie, you want to do the highest mountains, or you want to do a walk, just visit the sites. You can do anything. Do whatever you want.
Jason Elkins (01:05:26.702)
whatever you have in mind, Jordan has it to offer. So it’s cool. It’s for everyone. Definitely for everyone. Yeah. All right. I’m going to get off the call. Ah, yeah. Welcome. I can’t remember how to say OK. OK, gracias. Because I’m going to say it in Spanish because I’m starting to think in Spanish now. But gracias. Que Mable. So I’m super looking forward to do that. That’s.
I know that as soon as, oh yeah, as soon as I get off this, I know what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna pull out my phone, I’m gonna go to kayak and I’m gonna start looking at flights to Oman. Cause every time I get excited about a place, that’s the first thing I do. And it seems like usually within a couple of months I’m there. So I’m definitely, that’s how you’re leaving me. you get the ticket, whenever you’re getting the ticket, just send me the details and I’ll show you some of the stuff we have. Yeah. Sounds amazing. Thank you so much. Real appreciate you taking time out of your day to be here and.
Thanks Jason. to working on some projects with you in the future. Thanks, Potter. It was an amazing opportunity. Bye bye. All right, thanks.
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