Enjoy early access to Brian’s story here; before it is published to all of the popular platforms on October 13, 2026.
Episode #207: Brian FitzGerald
CEO, Grand Circle Corporation
Overseas Adventure Travel (O.A.T)
Guest Bio
Brian FitzGerald is the CEO of Grand Circle Corporation, the parent company of Overseas Adventure Travel and Grand Circle Travel. Since joining the company over 15 years ago, Brian has held leadership roles across finance, brand marketing, and business strategy, eventually becoming President and Chief Operating Officer before being named CEO in 2019. With a BS in Finance from Stonehill College, he began his career at State Street Corporation in fund accounting and financial controls. Brian’s leadership focuses on meaningful travel experiences as the core competitive advantage in the industry, guiding Grand Circle through significant challenges including the COVID-19 pandemic. He is deeply committed to the company’s mission of changing lives through immersive and authentic travel, emphasizing small group sizes and strong local connections.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins sits down with Brian FitzGerald to explore the unique approach Grand Circle Corporation takes in the adventure travel space. Brian shares insights into the company’s two flagship brands—Overseas Adventure Travel (O.A.T) and Grand Circle Travel—explaining how each serves different traveler profiles with distinct modes of travel and experiences. The conversation delves into how the company prioritizes authentic cultural immersion and sustainable tourism by employing local trip experience leaders and maintaining small group sizes.
Brian also reflects on his personal journey from finance professional to CEO of a family-owned travel company, highlighting the importance of purpose-driven work and the role of the Grand Circle Foundation in giving back to communities worldwide. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of how Grand Circle balances operational scale with personalized service and how the company supports solo travelers, multi-generational families, and those seeking life-changing travel experiences.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Grand Circle Corporation is a family-owned business operating two main brands: Overseas Adventure Travel and Grand Circle Travel.
- ✓ Overseas Adventure Travel focuses on immersive, small-group land tours with an average group size of 13 and a maximum of 16 travelers.
- ✓ Grand Circle Travel primarily offers European river cruises, with about 80% of its trips focused on river cruising.
- ✓ The company has shifted over the last 15 years from primarily river cruising to emphasizing small group, off-the-beaten-path land travel as its flagship product.
- ✓ Group sizes and small ship capacities are intentionally kept low to ensure access to authentic, less crowded ports and personalized service.
- ✓ Local trip experience leaders, all from the communities visited, guide travelers to provide genuine cultural insight and off-the-beaten-path experiences.
- ✓ Solo travel is a rapidly growing segment for the company, and O.A.T does not charge single supplements on land trips, supporting solo travelers with dedicated departures and room-sharing options.
- ✓ The Grand Circle Foundation partners closely with local communities to fund and support sustainable projects, including schools and water access, with direct involvement from staff and travelers.
- ✓ The company prioritizes traveler feedback through detailed surveys, using insights to continually refine and improve travel experiences.
- ✓ Brian’s leadership philosophy emphasizes growth through risk-taking, open communication, and action-oriented decision-making.
What You’ll Find on Overseas Adventure Travel (O.A.T)
- ✓ Authentic small group travel with an emphasis on in-depth cultural immersion and meaningful interactions with local communities.
- ✓ Expert local trip experience leaders who live in the destination and guide travelers throughout their journey.
- ✓ Carefully curated itineraries that explore lesser-known destinations and off-the-beaten-path experiences.
- ✓ A commitment to responsible tourism, balancing traveler access with preserving the integrity and well-being of host communities.
- ✓ Support for solo travelers without single supplements on land trips and with dedicated solo departures.
- ✓ Integration of philanthropic efforts through the Grand Circle Foundation, allowing travelers to see and contribute to community projects firsthand.
Learn more about Overseas Adventure Travel (O.A.T) and connect with Brian at:
https://www.oattravel.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason (01:09)
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today. And I’m also very excited. We’ve got a very cool guest today. He’s got his hands in a lot of things in the adventure travel space, the tourism space. I’m super excited to to connect with him and kind of we’re gonna get into his story, but we’re also gonna start out kind of talking about what he does. So without further ado, we’ve got Brian FitzGerald here.
Brian is the CEO of Grand Circle Corporation, which many of you know is the parent company of Overseas Adventure Travel and Grand Circle Travel. Brian, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Brian FitzGerald (01:46)
Thanks so much, Jason. Great to be here.
Jason (01:49)
It’s gonna be a be a fun conversation. We’re gonna talk a little bit about what you’re doing, and then we’re gonna figure out how the heck you got there. And so we’re gonna go
Brian FitzGerald (01:55)
It’s a great story.
Jason (01:57)
yeah, we’re gonna go into childhood traumas, all those things that happened along the yeah, all the all
Brian FitzGerald (02:00)
All the good stuff.
Jason (02:01)
the good stuff, I I promise. Brian, before we do that, just real quick, I’m I mentioned right before I hit the record button, you’d asked me where I was at. I’m in Phoenix, Arizona. Where are you at?
Brian FitzGerald (02:11)
Yeah, I’m in downtown Boston in an area called the Seaport. at the company headquarters. we’ve been here for I don’t know, forty plus years and it’s
Jason (02:20)
Wow.
Brian FitzGerald (02:20)
a it’s a really fun, thriving neighborhood that’s really transformed over the last ten years.
Jason (02:25)
Spent I lived in Vermont for a while, so I have been to Boston a few times and it’s a pretty interesting city. And I don’t know if I could live there in the winter, but but not that Vermont’s any better, but anyway. Brian, let’s before we get into that that kind of that story and your progression to get where you’re at, let’s share with our listeners for those that maybe are not as familiar. we’ve got a couple things going on. Let’s start. I don’t know. I’m gonna ask this question and you can decide if we want to reshuffle the order, but
I guess the question that I’d like to share with our listeners is what is the Grand Circle Corporation? And let’s
Brian FitzGerald (02:56)
Yeah.
Jason (02:57)
figure let’s see how you go with this, ’cause I know you’ve got a few parts going on.
Brian FitzGerald (03:00)
Yeah, so Grand Circle Corporation, it’s a family-owned business. that’s really the parent company of two well-known travel brands. our flagship is Overseas Adventure Travel, which is coming up on its 50th year anniversary. the family that owns Grand Circle Corporation bought OAT in the early 90s from the founder, Judy Weineland. And what OAT specializes in is immersive, authentic, small group travel authentication.
Off the beaten path for Americans. And then there’s the other brand, Grand Circle Travel, which is coming up on 70 years, was actually founded by Ethel Andrews, who founded AARP as a travel brand for our retired Americans. And really what that’s known for is primarily river cruise, European river cruises, operating, you know, the Rhine Mine, Danube, Senroan Rivers, and yes, almost 70 years in 2028.
Jason (03:51)
Wow,
wow. So help me understand because I I had learned I’m gonna ask some questions that I might know the answer to or I think I know the answer to, but I don’t like to make any assumptions. But I did do a little research and my understanding is Grand Circle Travel, you you mentioned AARP.
AARP started and we don’t need to go too far into the history of AARP, but was Grand Circle Travel kind of an I don’t want to say an afterthought, but honestly that’s the word that’s popping into my head. So help me understand the early connection between Grand Circle Travel and AARP.
Brian FitzGerald (04:25)
Yeah, I mean
I think the whole idea is that Ethel Andrews was a former educator and entrepreneur, founded AARP and had a passion for travel, and Grand Circle was born out of that passion for travel, creating a travel brand focused on retired Americans. And so that was the genesis of Grand Circle travel and operated for many years and in the late 80s was up for sale and the Lewis family who had a passion for travel.
Also continuing the legacy of a female entrepreneur and educator. Harriet Lewis is also a former teacher like Ethel Andrews and like Judy Weineland from OAT and an entrepreneur and really passionate about giving back and changing people’s lives through immersive authentic travel. So a great partnership there. The family’s owned it since the late 80s and have grown into the incredible brand it is today.
Jason (05:17)
Very cool.
I don’t know if you know the answer to this, but I’m I’m curious because when I hear you describe how Ethel kinda started AARP, was a passionate passionate about travel, and I’m imagining a scenario where okay, we’ve got this community. She’d built a community of retired folks and thought, geez, I’ve got an amazing mailing list. I don’t I don’t want to oversimplify
Brian FitzGerald (05:36)
Yeah.
Jason (05:38)
it, but I’ve got an amazing mailing list of people that might be interested in traveling.
so is that kind of what it was? It’s like, hey, we’ve got these people, let’s offer them something that’s that’s probably a little bit more cool than than just insurance or community involvement. D do you think that’s kind of what happened?
Brian FitzGerald (05:54)
I think that was part of it, but I I think it would go a little deeper than that in that
Jason (05:58)
Thank you. Good.
Brian FitzGerald (05:59)
if you think about retired Americans, I think what Ethel Andrews was tapping into and we certainly continue is is really understanding who these people are. And they’re curious lifelong learners who find themselves at a really interesting point in their life where they have time and resources and want to get out and see the world and and continue to foster those people-to-people interactions and and really meet new people. And so there’s the community of American travelers, but also the
relationship with the people in the communities we’re visiting. And so yes there’s a mailing list involved, but I think it goes much deeper than that into time, resources, curiosity, sense of adventure at a really unique phase of life.
Jason (06:41)
Very cool.
I’m I’m happy that you went a little deeper because I realized I was kind of just touching on the surface, just kind of the, you know, because you’ve got a you’ve had a little bit more time to think about it than I have, but it’s yeah, okay. That’s very cool. And then the overseas adventure travel, it’s
Brian FitzGerald (06:55)
Yeah.
Jason (06:56)
different. You’ve got it sounds like two different brands, maybe some crossover. Well, I don’t know. Do you have a lot of crossover clients?
Brian FitzGerald (07:03)
There are. So I mean, just some basics. We are known for our deep relationship and loyalty across all our brands. I would say unmatched level of retention and loyalty with our incredible customers and travelers. and
The difference between the two is really the mode of travel. So there’s people who really see themselves as European river cruisers and then people who see themselves as small group off the beaten path travelers. And that’s where OAT comes in. Now, when you get to seven or more trips with us, which we have a lot of travelers who make it there, we have travelers who made it to seventy five trips with us.
Jason (07:37)
I bet you do. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (07:40)
it’s incredible. but once you get up around
seven or more, yeah, about forty percent of them will have traveled with Grand Circle, OAT, a small ship, a river, small group land. They they’ve they’ve seen and done it all at that point.
Jason (07:54)
Have do you have
a sense for hmm? Cause this might be a tough one, but do you have a sense for are people more likely to s those people that have done both, are they typically more likely to start out on the Grand Circle, the River Cruise type stuff and then work their way into more of the OAT stuff? Or is it the other way around or or is it just a total wash?
Brian FitzGerald (08:20)
It’s really hard. It it depends on the person and as you know, travel is so personal to the individual traveler. Why this destination? There’s so many
You know, personal psychographics as why you want to go to Italy and why you might want to go to Italy could be the food. I might want to go to see my wife’s family, you know. So there’s there’s a million different reasons. But what we typically see is travelers start with OAT because the activity level is higher, and as they age, they’ll graduate towards a river cruise, which is more a slower paced, you unpack once and really use the the boat as your.
floating hotel so it’s a much more leisurely type of travel while you’re still able to get off the boat and into the communities the activity level is is lower.
Jason (09:05)
Right. So I don’t want myself or the listeners to go away just unless it’s true. I don’t know. I guess the question is with Grand Circle Travel, you mentioned primarily river cruise. We’ve we’ve touched on that a few times already. Is it fair to say it’s pretty much all river cruise or 80%, 90%? Give me some idea of what is the mix specifically for Grand Circle Travel.
Brian FitzGerald (09:29)
For Grand Circle Travel, I would say it’s 80% River Cruise. For Grand Circle Corporation, it’s 80% OAT.
Jason (09:36)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (09:36)
Overseas adventure travel. So that really is why it’s our flagship. And that really represents a unique pivot point for us as a company. As I said, the the family bought Grand Circle Travel first in the late 80s, added on OET in the 90s. And that was a strategic decision to really bet on small group land tours as a future of travel and really reduce our over reliance on river cruising. You know, as we’re looking ahead.
We saw more and more competition entering river cruising, more boats entering the space, and really those rivers becoming more and more congested. So, our mission all along as a company was to change people’s lives through travel, and we found it really harder to differentiate ourselves and the experience when you’re floating alongside 10 other boats hitting the same ports. And so it was a strategic
Jason (10:27)
Yeah, I get that.
Brian FitzGerald (10:28)
decision to say, where can we find that?
differentiation. Where can we go further off the beaten path to find more authenticity and more unique experiences? And that’s been through OAT and that’s why that is now the dominant brand and focus for us as we grow. That’s the type of authentic, life-changing experience we want to focus on.
Jason (10:48)
Right.
And you’ve been there long enough to to get a sense for what I heard is okay, we went the route of OAT to do more of the the land based small group authentic type of stuff. And now it’s accounting for about eighty percent of the business. Did that happen right away or did that was that a when when you first got OAT was it fifty fifty and now it’s eighty percent? I’m just kinda curious what the trajectory looked like.
Brian FitzGerald (11:14)
Yeah, so I’d been here for sixteen years and when I started Grand Circle
travel was 80% of the business and
Jason (11:23)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (11:23)
and the the dominant focus for us. and now that is completely flipped or OET is 80% of our passengers and travelers now. And it’s been an evolution throughout that 16 years to get to that point of really focusing on the unique immersive authentic experiences that OET can deliver and really differentiate ourselves against competition. And and really doing things to go
deeper in the communities and provide really unique experiences because that’s what our travelers looking for. It’s not the destination, it’s the unique access and experience that they want. And that’s what OET really delivers.
Jason (12:00)
I’m
curious how the kind of this thing we talk a lot about kind of over tourism. And generally when we have that conversation, it has you know, the places that come up are places either with seaports or maybe river ports where they’ve got the cruise ships are showing up.
Brian FitzGerald (12:16)
Yeah.
Jason (12:17)
that doesn’t mean it’s all that. I mean I know there’s other places that don’t necessarily have big boats pulling in. but I sus I’m just curious how that
pla has played into it. You guys made a conscious decision to go more deeper into the communities, more authentic, differentiate yourselves. But I I suspect you’ve got your finger on kind of the pulse of this over tourism thing that we’ve been talking about as well. And I wonder if there’s anything we should add to the conversation around that.
Brian FitzGerald (12:41)
Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the things both for OAT and Grand Circle, the group size is just not comparable. It’s so much smaller than competition. So for overseas adventure travel, it’s a group size of max 16, average
Jason (12:57)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (12:57)
13 per departure. And so you’re able to immerse yourself in these local communities without taking over and dominating that local experience. But even when it comes to our
small ships under overseas adventure travel. Our small ships are are technically more closely classified as a yacht than a small ship. We’re talking 50 passengers on a boat,
Jason (13:20)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (13:20)
up to max of a hundred. When competition is saying small ship, they’re still saying four to five hundred.
Jason (13:27)
okay.
Brian FitzGerald (13:27)
So when you’re pulling in with fifty passengers,
you’re going to ports other boats can’t even pull into.
Jason (13:32)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (13:33)
so it really the size of the group allows you to pick more unique, authentic ports, locations that the bigger groups just can’t get to.
Jason (13:44)
I’m I’m happy that came out. Cause I I when you were talking about differentiating and and cruising down the river and you see the other boats and it’s a little harder. But I also recognize the challenge, potentially, I don’t know, I’m curious what your thoughts are. But you can say all day long our boats are smaller.
Brian FitzGerald (14:00)
Yes.
Jason (14:01)
But people I would imagine some people are like, it’s river cruising. River cruising is river cruising. I’ve never been river cruising.
So trying to differentiate between a smaller boat that takes 50 to 100 people or a bigger boat that takes three to four hundred people, I suspect sometimes that gets lost on people. And here’s here’s why I think that, and I would love to hear your feedback is I had a hot air balloon ride business. So I guess the analogy there is I flew a very small balloon and it was mostly couples, you know, some guy wanted to propose to his girlfriend or anniversaries. It was usually two, three, four people in the balloon.
And pretty much all of my competition were flying balloons that could carry, you know, average 16 to 20 some people. But most people had never been in a balloon. So when you’re trying to sell a balloon ride to somebody, they’re looking across the board and they’re saying, Well, your price is, you know, three or four hundred dollars a person, their price is $150 per person. And I don’t know the difference. I just want to go on a balloon. So I had a it was a real challenge for me to differentiate. So I’m I’m I’m hearing that, I’m picking up on that. Is that
Kinda the case, or is that different in river cruising?
Brian FitzGerald (15:06)
So I guess when I’m talking about the 50 and 100 passenger ships, I’m talking about the OAT Mediterranean ships and the the cruise lines that go along up to the UK and Scandinavia. That’s where size
Jason (15:19)
okay.
Brian FitzGerald (15:19)
really differentiates because you’re able to pull into
Ports in Italy that no other boats are at, and you’re not competing with the mega cruise ships of three to five thousand passengers embarking,
Jason (15:30)
yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (15:31)
disembarking. So that’s really where the size is critical to the experience, to really having that personalized attention from the staff on the boat, but also the off-the-boat experience, having opportunities to have more one-on-one conversations with locals, but also the support of your trip experience.
experienced leader can really take the time to get to know you as a traveler when you’re traveling with only 50 other passengers on a boat broken up into groups of 25. They really
Jason (15:58)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (15:58)
get to know you and your interests and help curate those interests when you’re off the ship. And so that’s
Jason (16:03)
Right.
Brian FitzGerald (16:04)
really the size for OAT ships is is really where that comes into play more than the river boats.
Jason (16:09)
Okay,
all right. That’s that’s and I get that ’cause I imagine I don’t know really much about cruising. It’s probably gonna be clear by the end of this conversation if I keep asking
Brian FitzGerald (16:15)
Yeah.
Jason (16:19)
questions like this. But I imagine, you know, a large cruise ship company that takes three or four thousand people, when they’re like, Okay, what are we gonna plan around activities logistically? How do we get everybody off the boat, back on the boat, and not lose anybody, that type of thing is probably a totally different animal than when you’ve got
you know, fifty to a hundred, both the the s the boat is smaller, so you can pull in maybe to smaller ports, but also just I imagine a cruise ship with four thousand people probably has I I don’t know, you know more about this than I do. I’m just imagining the quality of the experiences and the amount of time involved and getting on and off and that type of thing. Where I’m going with this is on the smaller ships, do you have the same
numbers of activities or is it fewer activities but more curated, more more authentic, more connected with the community? What does that look like? What would you like people to know that are trying to decide between a four thousand person cruise ship and one with fifty?
Brian FitzGerald (17:17)
Yeah. It it’s
It really is apples and oranges. It’s a completely different experience.
Jason (17:21)
Sure.
Brian FitzGerald (17:23)
when you’re talking about the mega cruise ships. I mean, their whole business model is generate revenue on the boat. And so they hyper
Jason (17:30)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (17:31)
focus on the on-the-boat experience and really use third-party vendors for the off-the-boat experience. And that’s where we’re different. Yes, we focus on the guest experience and we have incredible hotel managers and staff and wait staff and chefs for when you’re on the boat.
But once again, our mission is to change people’s lives, and we do that one year.
Jason (17:51)
You gotta get off the boat.
Brian FitzGerald (17:52)
Gotta get them off the boat and into the communities. And that’s where we’re different too. We don’t outsource that experience. We have guides with you that work directly for us. We’ve hired and trained that go with you off the boat to curate those experiences off the ship, leveraging local vendors and partners, stuff like home hosted meals. We find local
Jason (18:11)
Ooh.
Brian FitzGerald (18:12)
families who are willing to take our travelers into
their homes for a couple hours, we’ll break you into groups as small as six, and you’ll spend three to four hours at their dining room table sharing a meal and conversation to really understand what it’s like to live there. That’s all the that’s just an example of one of our off the boat experiences to really get you into the communities. Because that’s where the the life changing experiences are. It’s not just sitting on the boat.
Jason (18:38)
I can tell you’re ch you’re already changing my perspective about
Brian FitzGerald (18:41)
Yeah.
Jason (18:42)
cruise ships. If somebody were to go back and listen to the very first like intro episode I did for the pilot the pilot episode or whatever, it’s like, well, I think I said somebody of cruise ships and all inclusive beach resorts or your idea of great time that you’re in the wrong place type of thing. So that’s why I’m really, really happy we’re having this conversation
Brian FitzGerald (18:56)
Yeah.
Jason (18:57)
because what you’re saying resonates. And I have some, you know, some past baggage from the past. I managed a lodge in Belize and we had cruise ships would show up, not at the lodge.
But I’d be in town, I’d see the people getting off and on the cruise ships. And I thought, my gosh, I never want to have that experience. And then recently I was flying through the airport in Miami and I was chatting with these two ladies that I’m pretty outgoing. I just asked people questions and they explained that they had just been on the cruise ship and it was their fifth, fifth cruise for the year. And she’s like, It’s the best vacation, you don’t have to do anything. You just get there, you just eat and drink, and and I’m like, Did you get off the boat? Did you go?
See anything. No, no, why would you get off the boat?
Brian FitzGerald (19:36)
Ha ha ha.
Jason (19:38)
I was thinking it just validated my idea of of cruise ships. And I’m like, I just can’t imagine that. So what I hear you saying is the goal is to get people off the boat. I’m sure you have some people, you know, that don’t leave every day. I get that. But it
Brian FitzGerald (19:49)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason (19:50)
it sounds like that couple the couple ladies I met there in Miami were probably not your typical, typical clientele. And that’s okay.
Brian FitzGerald (19:56)
No. No. Does it
Jason (19:58)
There’s room for everybody to do their thing, but all right.
That’s pretty cool.
Brian FitzGerald (20:02)
There’s a couple of things
there that you said that made me think.
We’ve always said we’re a travel company that was built for travelers, not for tourists. And there’s a there’s a clear differentiation
Jason (20:10)
Ooh, big difference.
Brian FitzGerald (20:12)
there. You know, if you ask a tourist about their trip, they’re gonna pull out a photo of a a famous landmark that they saw. But if you ask one of our travelers, they’re gonna tell you a story about an experience. And more often
Jason (20:23)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (20:24)
than not, it’s about someone they met or something
Jason (20:26)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (20:26)
real unique that happened off the beaten path. And and there’s a real difference there between a traveler and a tourist.
Jason (20:33)
I yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (20:33)
The other thing that
we often say here is if you ask an American about international travel, 99% of them will say Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. And
Jason (20:42)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (20:42)
we operate in over a hundred countries and not really Canada, Mexico, or the Caribbean. We’re going off the beaten path, taking Americans where they don’t typically go.
Jason (20:51)
Is as you look at your business, I can see I can sense it from you, but and and me personally am much more interested in kind of those off the beat and bath places. but are there times when you know maybe there’s a board meeting and somebody says, you know, this would be a lot easier if we just did, you know, cruises out of Miami, or there’s so much demand that we’re missing out on. Maybe we need to.
Do more stuff in Cancun or or whatever. Does that come up sometimes and you have to pull someone aside and say, hey, that’s not who we are? Or just curious.
Brian FitzGerald (21:25)
It really doesn’t come up, and I think that’s one of the great things about working for a family company that’s so committed to the culture we have here, our values, and our mission. you walk into our lobby here at the headquarters in Boston, there’s a sign above the desk that says we help change people’s lives. And so that’s our North Star,
Jason (21:42)
ho ho ho ho.
Brian FitzGerald (21:43)
and you’re not gonna do that for us with
Jason (21:45)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (21:45)
you know, five thousand passengers on a cruise out of Miami. This is
Jason (21:49)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (21:50)
taking Americans where they don’t go, finding those emotions.
immersive authentic experiences with locals. That’s that’s the goal, that’s the mission.
Jason (21:58)
Don’t wanna go, you know, this is not a business podcast, but and I’m just curious. Do you when you do your marketing, when you’re discussing getting in front of people, is there an effort to get in front of people that maybe have extensively traveled the US and then are ready to take the next step? Or do you even bot I’m gonna say, do you even bother? Have you guys decided that you know what, the person that’s only been to Mexico or Canada?
And that’s maybe even a small portion of the US market. Do you just kind of say, yeah, that’s not our audience? So you go specifically to other types of travelers? Or how do you how do you figure out, you know, what’s the goal? Is the is it to get Americans that haven’t traveled outside the US to travel outside the US? Or is that a uphill battle that you just like, no, that’s not even worth it?
Brian FitzGerald (22:45)
I think great branding and great marketing tells people exactly who you are and let them decide. We we say internally blow them in and blow them out. If you’re looking for unique, authentic, off the beaten path experiences, we’re the company for you. If you’re looking for a fun in the sun, all inclusive Caribbean vacation, we’re not the company for you. Yeah, you’re on the wrong business. Yeah.
Jason (23:06)
You’re in the ro just like the podcast just like the podcast. All
Brian FitzGerald (23:10)
So all
Jason (23:11)
right.
Brian FitzGerald (23:11)
we do is focus on telling people exactly what type of company we are, what type of experience you’re looking for, and let them decide.
Now the demographics do support that people want experiences more than ever. They’re investing more of their money on unique experiences. the demographic that we serve, retired Americans, it’s the wealthiest generation in the history of the world. And they time and time again are saying unique, authentic experiences where they’re they’re going. And that’s where we come in. So we want to tell exactly who we are, let them decide, but
Jason (23:45)
Love it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very cool. Do and is it all we could have a conversation about the word Americans? ‘Cause I’ve
Brian FitzGerald (23:53)
Yeah.
Jason (23:55)
’cause I’ve spent a lot of time in Latin America and a lot of people in Latin America, hey, we’re all Americans. you know, I
Brian FitzGerald (24:00)
Yeah.
Jason (24:00)
I I get that. But in for the sake of this conversation, is it pretty much all people that live in the United States that are traveling with you? Do you pick up some Canadians? Do you have some
Europeans or other people that travel with you as well, or is it spot on like USA?
Brian FitzGerald (24:19)
USA.
Jason (24:20)
All right.
Brian FitzGerald (24:20)
And
that that was a strategic decision because there’s group dynamics that come into play here.
Jason (24:25)
Yes.
Brian FitzGerald (24:26)
And so really part of the experience is the idea that you’re joining a community of like-minded, curious travelers that share some interests. but also there’s no language barrier there. Your your relationship with the fellow travelers while you’re on safari for 18 days is as much of your experience as it is with the animals or or the native.
that you’re meeting with. And so designing the itineraries for the American consumer in terms of logistics, food, menu, topics, communication, it was very intentional there because that adds to the experiences is sharing that with the community of like-minded curious travelers.
Jason (25:07)
Yeah,
yeah, I get that. Are all of the departures set date departures that people can book into? Or if somebody called you and said, My family wants to go here, can you set it up for us? I’m just curious what the business model looks like on that end.
Brian FitzGerald (25:21)
Yeah, we do have all departure dates set per itinerary. we do some private group departures. I wouldn’t say that’s the majority of it, but we do have a groups department. So if friends and family or affinity groups want to say, Hey, we want an exclusive date to Japan, yeah, we can
Jason (25:39)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (25:40)
accommodate that. But I would say the majority of our departures, pick the destination you want, here’s the departures, and you
you’ll be joining other active adventurers.
Jason (25:51)
I think there’s I think there’s there’s crossover. There’s some people that really like group trips and there’s some people that really like private departures and then
Brian FitzGerald (25:58)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (25:58)
there’s a bunch of people that cross over and kind of depending on who we’re talking about. If the if it’s their family with their grandkids, they might want to go do a private thing. If it’s you know, if it’s them and their spouse or if they’re single and want to go meet people, it might be a group departure. I think where I’m going with this is because we just talked about US market.
shared kind of shared values or shared you know shared that shared experience with other people that you have some common grounds, language, that type of thing. But you’ve also we’ve discussed retired folks. So somebody wants me to ask you, can a younger person go? If you know I’m not quite retired. I’m 53.
Brian FitzGerald (26:37)
Yeah.
Jason (26:37)
I know a lot of people that are quite a bit younger. So if somebody in their 30s or 40s
wanted to go on one of these trips, is that an option? And would they feel what would you like to say to them?
Brian FitzGerald (26:48)
Yeah, absolutely it’s an option. We our only cutoff is thirteen and above. So certainly we do have some
Jason (26:53)
Okay, so they
Brian FitzGerald (26:54)
thirty-year-old, forty-year-old travelers. and one of the things we recently did to better accommodate younger travelers is offering shorter trips. up until a couple of the years ago, we focused primarily on
18 day to 25 day trips. And so that’s really prohibitive for anyone who’s still in the workforce. And so our travelers said we would love to take more trips, but shorter trips, especially the ones as people are working later in their lives. You know, the age
Jason (27:22)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (27:22)
of retirement’s been increasing. And so they asked for shorter trips and we launched what we’re calling overseas adventure travel emergence. There’s seven to twelve day trips to some of our iconic destinations.
And that’s really resonating with a younger traveler who might still be working.
Jason (27:38)
Right. What about single travelers? And the reason I’m asking this question is, you know, my mom is single. She’s in her seventies, has the resources, has the time. There’s some issues with dog care. She’s got dogs, so
Brian FitzGerald (27:51)
Well.
Jason (27:52)
that’s a whole I won’t I won’t bother you with that part of the question. But the question is, you know, she’s single, she’d like to meet other people that want to travel. When I talk to her about cause I’ve I’m traveling full time and I and I’m like, mom, why don’t you ever go anywhere? And she’s like, Well, I don’t want to go by myself.
Brian FitzGerald (28:06)
Yeah.
Jason (28:07)
And she’s I’m guessing she’s not alone. I think there’s a lot of single people that that would like to go travel but don’t want to have those experiences on their own. But then also maybe they’ve got some insecurities around joining a group of people they don’t know.
Brian FitzGerald (28:21)
Yeah.
Jason (28:22)
so let’s touch on this the single traveler. Is that common? Is that do you have trips that are almost cater specifically to that or or how does that work?
I know. Good luck.
Brian FitzGerald (28:33)
Solo
travel has been the fastest growing segment my entire time here. and it’s really a strategic pivot point that the company made very early on when we acquired OAT was to not charge a single supplement on any of our land trips, which is really uncommon in the industry. A lot
Jason (28:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (28:53)
of c competition is charging, you know, five hundred dollars up all the way up to the cost of two travelers for a single room. And so
We made a decision very early on to not do that on OAT and it’s been
Jason (29:05)
Now Brian, i is that
is that because another model that I know people use, I know I used it when I was setting up trips, there’s kind of that if you’re willing to share type of thing.
Brian FitzGerald (29:15)
Yep.
Jason (29:16)
is that what it is? Is as long as you’re willing to share with another traveler of the same sex, or do you guys just how do you handle that?
Brian FitzGerald (29:23)
So we have on each product we set aside single rooms that are available without a single supplement.
Once we sell out of those, so on an average of sixteen passengers per departure, each trip will have four to six singles available on that departure that we set aside free. If we get above that, then yes, there’s that idea of a share. If you’re willing to share and we can find an acceptable match that works for everyone, then yes, you’re your sharing room. But our prime most of it is the true singles, the four to six per departure. And almost half of our travelers now.
every year are traveling solo and a lot of them are facing the the same concerns your mom is having around is it safe am I gonna be excluded from the group? and we say travel solo but you’re not alone and we mean that a couple different ways. We have 35 worldwide offices so you’re gonna have support of a local office for anything that might come up on the road. I think any experienced worldwide traveler will say there’s always some hiccups in logistics and so
So
we have a worldwide operations team to really address those as they come up. You’re going to have a trip experience leader who’s a local to the destination you’re traveling to to help foster those relationships with locals. So you have the support of a trip experience leader with you every step of the way. But also in each departure, there’s going to be three to five other solo travelers. So you’re traveling solo, but there’s other solo travelers there to share that experience with.
and so it’s really
Jason (30:50)
Yeah. I imagine a
imagine a scenario of ’cause sometimes we know you might know something about your business, I may know something about my business, and it’s like, if I could just ic help people see this. Like so if you’re speaking to the solo traveler who’s like, Man, I’d love to you know, like my mom’s always wanted to go to Scotland. I don’t know if do you have Scotland?
Brian FitzGerald (31:11)
We do.
Jason (31:12)
Okay.
All right. I’m gonna make sure she hears this conversation. So she’s like, I always want to go to Scotland, don’t want to go by myself. But then there’s that kind of like, Well, I don’t want to hold anybody back. And she’s in pretty good shape. But there there are some concerns. And like I’m imagining someone like you is like, Carol, trust me, if you just just come give it a try. You like because you see it every day. You your team
Brian FitzGerald (31:32)
Every single day.
Jason (31:33)
experiences it every day when somebody
goes on their first solo trip, maybe they lost a partner at some point in the last several years and that was their travel partner and now they’re like they want to travel, but it’s that’s hard. That’s that’s that can be scary. so I hear you say, Yeah, just come come give it a try. Trust me, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (31:50)
Please just trust us.
it’s people who’ve lost partners, but it’s also what I hear stories of my husband doesn’t want to travel with me. And I am not gonna sit home. I’m gonna go
Jason (31:58)
I knew I knew you were gonna say that. I’ve heard that too.
Brian FitzGerald (32:01)
without him. Or I wanna share this trip with my daughter or my sister or a friend from church. they are just so passionate about hitting the road, they’re not gonna let anything get in the way.
Jason (32:12)
And it’s so cool when you see that because it’s like a a switch is flipped sometimes. It’s that, you know, okay, we’re married, taking care of kids, doing the thing. I’ve always wanted to travel. My partner, you know, I’m the one who sits there and watches YouTube videos of people traveling, and my my partner is like, my gosh, do we really have to watch another travel video? And then there’s that sometimes that that switch gets flipped. And it’s like, you know what? Instead of me trying to convince you to go with me.
I’m gonna go. And it’s maybe good for both sides. And the he and he or she is like, yeah, okay, whatever. And I have no idea where I’m going with this. I’m just visualizing it. I’ve I’ve
Brian FitzGerald (32:50)
Yeah.
Jason (32:51)
se I I’ve I’ve experienced it. yeah, all right. Very cool. Do we won’t talk about well I don’t know. Have you guys done like
meet and mingle singles types, like specifically singles trips that are for like people that would like to find a maybe a companion or somebody that or is it just happened naturally? If it if it needs to happen.
Brian FitzGerald (33:10)
It does happen.
It does
happen naturally. I was actually on a riverboat a couple years ago where there was a wedding. It was a it was a travelers who had met on one of our trips who then planned
Jason (33:20)
Cool.
Brian FitzGerald (33:21)
a river cruise with their family and our captain actually performed a wedding ceremony. So it does happen organically. We don’t really foster that
Jason (33:29)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (33:29)
at this point. We’re not really in in that business at all. but when it does come to solo travel, we do set aside solo women specific trips.
It’s just a whole departure of solo women. And that’s once again that idea of you’re traveling solo but you’re not alone and a whole departure of women who are in the same boat, who are lifelong curious learners and looking to foster that relationship with other curious travelers.
Jason (33:56)
Do you do you have men’s only departures? And if so, why not?
Brian FitzGerald (34:01)
We do not.
and they’re not asking for it. Unfortunately, my experience is
Jason (34:05)
That’s why I’m
Brian FitzGerald (34:07)
that the women tend to be more adventurous than the men.
Jason (34:10)
I know. It’s
it is an interesting thing. I I worked in the fly fishing travel business. You know, I worked for a company called Orvis and led a lot of group trips. So we did have men’s groups, but I
Brian FitzGerald (34:20)
Yeah.
Jason (34:21)
think it was only because it was fishing, you know, and
Brian FitzGerald (34:23)
Yep. That makes sense.
Jason (34:24)
but we also had a lot of groups where it wasn’t necessarily we never said this is a men’s only trip, by the way. I should throw that out.
But it just kind of naturally tended to work out that way.
And every once in a while we’d have a single single gal would show up and and they were always better fishermen, fisher persons. or we’d have some couples and it was honestly it was always more fun when it was more of a mixed group. ‘Cause
Brian FitzGerald (34:46)
Yeah.
Jason (34:47)
a group of guys I’m gonna say a lot of things I shouldn’t, but a group of guys that just wanna
fish and talk about fishing and sit around and smoke cigars and drink scotch every night, that can get a little boring too. So And yeah, yeah anyway.
Brian FitzGerald (34:57)
Yep. I could see that.
Jason (35:02)
let’s move on past that. so is there a we kind of touched on the single thing.
Think we kind of covered it, but I always I don’t know. I would o always like to ask, but I want to ask, is there something that is usually the biggest surprise that your clients have when they finally book a trip with you? And it’s like, wow, I expected this. I and that could be country specific, it could be departure specific. I don’t know, but I suspect there’s some things that you’ve heard before where people are just like, wow, that really surprised me. So I I guess I would like, if you would, just share with people.
What’s that thing they might not expect that that you want them
Brian FitzGerald (35:38)
Yeah.
Jason (35:38)
to consider?
Brian FitzGerald (35:39)
For me, I think it comes down to how each travel company defines the word authentic. It it’s a it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot. and for us, we always describe it as authentic is the good, the bad, and the ugly. You can’t kind of protect the message and try to control the narrative. And so we hire local trip experience leaders. And there’s a difference between a guide reading from a corporate screen.
speaking through a megaphone, carrying a flag as I walk through the market, and someone who grew up down the street and is really excited to welcome people into their hometown and show off their neighbors’ businesses. And so i it it’s a completely different definition of the word authentic. part of our trips is
Because we’re not scripted, we give the guides, the trip experience leaders, freedom to talk about controversial topics. You know, what are important matters that the local community or country are are are facing? And a lot of times that can be the role of women in society. And so those type of conversations, not presentations, you know, there’s a difference there between we’re gonna have a discussion in a conference room in a hotel.
and a conversation you have with someone in the middle of the street about their life and the economic opportunities and the roles of women in in the country. That’s what authentic
Jason (37:00)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (37:01)
means to us and and once you s experience it, it’s hard to go back to the megaphone, the flag, and experiencing a country from a bus window.
Jason (37:10)
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I had a conversation with somebody recently that without going into too much detail, it was the companies that he had worked for, there were certain topics that were just kind of off limits. You know, you go look at a particular animal and the company might want you to talk about how great the animal is and what what we are doing to conserve the the area and all this stuff.
But there wasn’t any flexibility to discuss other sides. So
Brian FitzGerald (37:39)
No.
Jason (37:40)
for example, maybe we’re looking at polar bear. I’m going too far into this. We’re looking at polar bears, and it’s important that we conserve the polar bear. But whatever you do, don’t talk to the guests about polar bear hunting because that’s controversial. So they’d they’d have to say, it’s important to conserve the polar bears, but I can’t talk about the number one thing killing most of the polar bears might be hunting.
Brian FitzGerald (38:03)
Yeah.
Jason (38:03)
It’s just
an example hypothetical. I don’t know, maybe. so I I love that it sounds like y your team has the the ability, like you said, the good, the bad, the ugly, all that stuff. ‘Cause ’cause that’s important.
Brian FitzGerald (38:16)
And
wherever possible we try to give both points of views, especially if there’s two sides of the story. An example,
Jason (38:20)
It’s
Brian FitzGerald (38:23)
you know, we we have a trip to Israel and you’ll sit down
and hear the Jewish side, and then you’ll sit down and hear the Palestinian side. And
Jason (38:29)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (38:30)
it’s a very emotional topic and we want to present, you know, both sides of that story and really have the travelers engage in that conversation.
Jason (38:38)
Do you because anytime you’re dealing with people, especially groups of people that are mix mixed groups, you know, they’re all from the US, but as you and I both know, there’s varied political views and and ideas in the US. I think I know what you’re gonna say, but what about on these group trips? Do you have many conflicts? Does it come up? Are your is your team
trained to deal with somebody who’s maybe on the Palestinian support a hundred percent in on that and kind of critical of the Israeli side or vice versa. Does that happen often? Is it is it even worth discussing, or do you just is is everybody just so curious that goes on these trips that they’re pretty open minded? What do you think?
Brian FitzGerald (39:22)
Yeah, I mean we set ground rules and our our trip experience leaders are are really well versed in setting the framework for our how we behave. And one of those ground rules is we don’t talk US politics. Now, we want to engage with the local communities and hear about their life and get to understand their lives. So we found that we have curious travelers who are so interested in the topics that whether they’re Republican, Democrat, from New England.
England or the middle of the country, it it really isn’t about our experience. It’s about learning about the local experience.
Jason (39:55)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (39:56)
And that seems to trump all issues that come up. So very few and far between that curiosity, that’s a trap. You know, that was an accident.
Jason (40:01)
You you use the word Trump. Anyway, we’re not gonna discuss US politics. It’s
it’s one of the the greatest joys that I’ve had out of traveling, as much as I’ve been fortunate enough to travel, especially the last five years traveling full time. It’s just meeting so many people from different places and in my experience
There’s there’s two parts. There’s the meeting the local people, having conversations with them about what’s important to them and getting to kind of connect with them and understand what’s going on. But then there’s also meeting other travelers.
Brian FitzGerald (40:33)
Yeah.
Jason (40:34)
And it’s I don’t know why it’s a surprise, but well, I ran into s somebody in the last five years. I I haven’t had this experience, hadn’t had it before, but I ran into someone recently in the last year, the first traveler
That I looked at him and I thought, wow, what is he doing here? What like he was so out of place. He was very, very opinionated and kind of quite racist and just a kind of one of those pain in the ass kind of guys. But what was what was good about the experience running into him was it gave me a moment to reflect on how seldom that happens.
Brian FitzGerald (41:07)
Yeah, it really
Jason (41:08)
And
how it’s like, jeeze, you know, I had to work really hard to find one guy, one traveler that was a real pain in the butt. And it it just it made me realize and appreciate how curious and open minded most travelers are when the when they’re out and about doing that. So
Brian FitzGerald (41:22)
Yeah, that’s been our experience. It’s really hard to be a closed minded person who’s also very interested
Jason (41:26)
Yeah, why are you gonna do it?
Brian FitzGerald (41:28)
in international off the beaten path travel. Those are are conflicting ideas. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason (41:32)
Kinda self s self selects for open minded curious people. Yeah.
Let’s get into you, Brian. That’s this is
Brian FitzGerald (41:40)
Yeah.
Jason (41:40)
the moment when because what you’re doing’s cool. Anybody that’s listening to this probably hears it in your voice. Anybody that’s watching the video version of this can see the look on your face, the passion on your face. You clearly care about what you’re doing. You’re you’re not, you know, there’s a lot of corporate CEOs that maybe have different I don’t know. I just sense in you that you’re serious about this. It’s not like
Brian FitzGerald (42:01)
Yeah.
Jason (42:01)
it’s just the best business, you know, best job opportunity you could come across. I’m guessing.
So, well yes, in in a way it is the best I don’t want to put words in your mouth. I’m
Brian FitzGerald (42:10)
Yeah.
Jason (42:11)
trying to trying to say I don’t think you’re doing it for the money. So anyway, let’s go back to the beginning. Where did you let’s start with where did you grow up and what was that like?
Brian FitzGerald (42:20)
Yeah, I I mean
Not to steal the headline here, but I am so fortunate. I love what I do. This is not just a
Jason (42:26)
I could tell.
Brian FitzGerald (42:27)
job. I love the people, I love the product, our travelers. I it’s it’s every day I’m learn I’m still learning something new and it’s still something that I’m curious about learning more and going deeper. so I’m I’m incredibly fortunate. And I wish it was by design that I had planned this all along. but I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I grew up just outside of Boston.
You know, a family of four. I have two brothers and a sister. Almost my whole life is within thirty square miles. so just outside of Boston. I went to college outside of Boston and I work in downtown Boston. I still live just outside the city with my wife and three kids. and I get to
Jason (43:05)
For for an overseas adventure travel business.
Brian FitzGerald (43:08)
Yeah, run an international travel business, operates
Jason (43:11)
I love it.
Brian FitzGerald (43:12)
in a hundred countries, thirty-five worldwide offices. I never
Jason (43:15)
Yeah, yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (43:16)
even traveled internationally outside of Canada, Mexico as we said, until college. my girlfriend
Jason (43:21)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (43:22)
at the time was studying abroad and that was my first time going over the seas. And I fell in love with
Jason (43:25)
Okay, very cool. Well let’s let’s
Brian FitzGerald (43:27)
it.
Jason (43:28)
let’s dig in a little bit more to like so high school, you mentioned that you’ve got three siblings. What kind of stuff did you do? What were you interested in, like kind of those early teenage years or even maybe before that? What what things were going on in your world? What was exciting?
Brian FitzGerald (43:43)
Yeah.
Growing up, I would say pretty traditional New England boy, loved baseball. so I played baseball my whole life, passionate about music. so I played the saxophone all growing up and then got to high school and joined a band and and started to sing and play guitar, and it’s something I still do with one of my friends from high school. so I I’ve always loved music and and when I travel I’m always interested in in seeing live music and and just
Engaging in the in the whole scene there.
Jason (44:11)
So let me let me ask you this. So y what
I heard you say was saxophone, band, singing, and baseball. Right? So
Brian FitzGerald (44:20)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason (44:22)
was that a was that an anomaly? Because I grew up in music as well. I was in doing the the theater and the music, and I was, you know, voted most talented boy in my senior class. But I was but when it came to sports, it was that was just didn’t quite work for me. I was never very good at it.
Brian FitzGerald (44:37)
Yeah.
Jason (44:38)
So I’m curious about the the young man growing up in high school that that plays sports and does music stuff.
Brian FitzGerald (44:45)
Yeah.
Jason (44:45)
what was that like?
Brian FitzGerald (44:47)
So I think I learned I wasn’t good enough that the sports was gonna be a career for me and it had more of a shelf life and music
Jason (44:52)
Okay. huh.
Brian FitzGerald (44:54)
was something I could continue for the rest of my life.
Jason (44:58)
Very cool.
Brian FitzGerald (44:58)
I would say I I an interesting pivot point was in high school decision. I went I was public schooled my whole life and then at high school I went to Boston College High School, which is a Jesuit school. And I
Jason (45:08)
Hmm. Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (45:09)
would say, one, I learned quickly I was not good enough to play baseball at that high school. so I pivoted to wrestling and even there I was good
at wrestling until I I dislocated my shoulder and that ended my wrestling and sports career. so
a more pivot into music was very timely at that point. but also
Jason (45:28)
Was there was there s
somebody in your family? Why do you think it ended up on music? Did you have musical influences, your parents or
Brian FitzGerald (45:34)
yeah.
Jason (45:35)
something like that? Is that where that came from?
Brian FitzGerald (45:37)
Yeah, it was my relationship with my grandmother.
so my grandmother was part of a a band. Her, her sister, and her brother were part of a band called Bells and Bows. And what they would do is ever since they were kids, they would go and they would sing at nursing homes two, three times a week. And so when I learned the saxophone, once a week, I would go and I’d play saxophone at nursing homes with my grandmother. And so it was a great time
Jason (45:59)
wow.
Brian FitzGerald (46:00)
for me to connect with her. And my mom is the oldest of eight, and so there was a lot of grandkids around.
I think there’s 30 of us on that side. And that was always a unique opportunity for me. I was the only one to really lean into that with my grandmother. And I’m the youngest card-carrying member of the Bells and Bows. So
Jason (46:17)
That is that is so cool.
I don’t think in my entire life I’ve ever heard the words my grandmother was in a band. I mean, I’m sure
Brian FitzGerald (46:23)
Yeah. Yeah, she would
Jason (46:25)
there’s a lot of people that grandmothers were in bands, but it it hasn’t come up in a long I can’t remember every time we have been a conversation. that’s that’s pretty darn cool. so what did you end up doing? well let me ask you this, because I heard I heard everything you said about baseball, music,
Brian FitzGerald (46:39)
Yeah.
Jason (46:40)
and I’m curious if I had a time machine and I could
sit down with you, go back in time, sit down with you when you were I don’t know if maybe if I say sixteen you’re gonna say baseball, but by seventeen you realize that wasn’t gonna go there. So my
Brian FitzGerald (46:53)
What?
Jason (46:54)
question is, if I’d asked you, what do you want to do when you grow up, Brian, what w what do you think you would have said? Do you remember?
Brian FitzGerald (47:00)
I have no idea at that point. E
Jason (47:01)
yeah, okay.
Brian FitzGerald (47:02)
even even when I graduated high school and I was picking a college, I asked my grandfather ’cause I I I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was always good at math and and and
science, so I I thought that would be a career path but I had no idea what to do with it. So my grandfather was a career navy man, he worked on on submarines, and then when he left the Navy, he did very well for himself in real estate. And so I was just asking him, what would you do? And he put me on the path of finance. He said, If you know how the business makes money, you can always find a way to help. So if you learn how the business operates, you can then decide do you want to be in sales, do you want to be in marketing?
But that’s a great foundation to build off if you don’t know what you want to do. So that’s what I did. I got a finance degree.
Jason (47:47)
Probably
probably really good advice because I think there’s a lot of people that are very excited about business, especially in the tourism space, that really are passionate about what they’re doing, but that whole finance part of it’s kinda like it’s not my thing. So
Brian FitzGerald (48:00)
Yeah.
Jason (48:01)
somebody somebody like you that can come in and and help get control that ’cause I think there’s a lot of amazing tourism businesses that really struggle because the finance part wasn’t that interesting or they just
Brian FitzGerald (48:10)
Yeah.
Jason (48:11)
kind of didn’t get their head around it. Did you have any like
Do you have any thoughts of going into music for a career?
Brian FitzGerald (48:18)
I didn’t. much like baseball, I I just didn’t think I was good enough to cut it there. and it was more of always just a passion project and still is. me and my bat we’ll play live shows maybe two, three times a year, but that’s not what really does it for me. I’d rather just play at my friend’s house in his basement, in his back room,
Jason (48:35)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (48:36)
the rest of my life. It’s just a a person personal passion that I love.
Jason (48:39)
I
I love that. Was there anything from your childhood that you remember that was remotely travel related? anybody you knew that was doing it, any like I’m looking for a seed that you didn’t at the time you had no idea that the seed was being planted, but in hindsight you can look back anything at all?
Brian FitzGerald (48:58)
Nothing growing up. Nothing at all.
Jason (49:01)
Wow.
Brian FitzGerald (49:02)
we did not travel as a family. We were very lower, middle income.
Jason (49:05)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (49:06)
I don’t think I even was on a plane until the seventh grade when my class went to Washington DC. so the travel was not something that was a lived experience for me and my family at that time.
Jason (49:17)
Any any outdoor
activities, I mean fishing, yeah, maybe there’s fishing.
Brian FitzGerald (49:22)
Yep.
I I mean, I growing up in the eighties and early nineties, I mean it’s a complete different experience than kids today. we I I I often joke with my wife, we were feral.
Jason (49:29)
Yeah. I remember I was there too. Not not in Boston,
but yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (49:34)
My
mom there was no way to track us. We’d get home from school and as long as I was home by the time the lights were on, the streetlights,
Jason (49:39)
Yeah, yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (49:40)
you know, the the streets were ours. And so I was fishing, I was out in the woods, I was playing with the neighborhood kids, and I was a Boy Scout, so there was definitely camping every summer with my family, but I would say we stayed to New England for the most part. A lot of a lot of memories going up to Maine and and New Hampshire, Lake Winnipesaukee. so I loved the outdoors, but I wouldn’t say it was you know the
International travel was ever something I ever considered.
Jason (50:04)
There’s a there’s a connection. I would make the argument that there’s a connection. some kind of similar to me in that regard. Not the finance part, the music part, maybe the and the the the fishing, getting out in the outdoors, I think is kind of a precursor to somebody that might end up working in the travel business
Brian FitzGerald (50:21)
Yeah.
Jason (50:21)
later on. Just that curiosity, right? And that just like, this is the difference, this the stimulations you mentioned.
Boy Scouts, for anybody that’s watching the video. I’ve got I’m visiting my mom. I’ve got the picture of my brother and I on the wall back here with in our c in our Cub Scout uniforms. Or Boy Scout Boy Scout, yeah. Yeah. So Yeah, yeah,
Brian FitzGerald (50:37)
I see that feet that curved cheek there. Iconic look there.
Jason (50:43)
exactly. So anyway, that’s that’s pretty cool. So you decided to go to s was it straight on like you majored in finance right out right out the gate? Okay. Did you enjoy it?
Brian FitzGerald (50:51)
Yeah. Yeah, majored in finance
with a minor in economics, at a local school, Stonehill. and yeah, and then my first job was at Steed Street Bank doing mutual fund accounting. And
Jason (51:02)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (51:03)
I did that for five years.
I enjoyed it for the most part ’cause i I was on the service side, so really working with the client and helping in problem solving and and really answering their questions while building a team. I was able to manage a team of fifteen people and I really loved that experience of working with a team and having a client and really focusing on problem solving and communication. but I was there during the financial crisis and that was a big wake up call for me on just looking at what am I doing
Where’s this going? Am I happy with what I’m I’m really trading my hours every day to price a bunch of mutual funds? And was I getting a lot of self gratification out of that? Was I growing? Was I challenging myself? and so coming through the financial crisis I said, I think it’s time for a change. and I was looking for more of a a company with a mission, something giving back was a big core of my upbringing. my mom
was someone who really gave whatever she had to the community. we did foster kids growing up.
lived with us. and then when I went to high school, I I went to a Jesuit high school and to graduate, every senior had to do I think it was two hundred hours of community service in order to graduate. And the the mantra of the school was becoming a man for others. It was an all-boys school. And so this idea of service was something that my mom instilled with me, reinforced it at at high school, and so I said, you know, it’s it’s how how can I do more of that and less of just the financial side?
And so my
Jason (52:26)
Right.
Brian FitzGerald (52:27)
first job at the travel company was in the foundation. That’s what brought me to this company. Yeah.
Jason (52:31)
okay.
Be real quick before we go, if you were to look back, you’re working the finance, you’re doing the mutual fund stuff. before the financial crisis, were you already kind of thinking this is not for me or was it the financial crisis that triggered you to think, Okay, I gotta find something else because this is killing me? I I’m putting words in your mouth. You didn’t say killing me.
Brian FitzGerald (52:52)
Yeah. Yeah. It
was before that I already knew that I wasn’t aligned, you know, I was looking ahead at, you know, my boss, my boss’s boss, my boss’s boss, and saying, If that’s me in fifteen, twenty years, how am I gonna be happy with the choices I made? And no offense to those people, it it’s for some people, it wasn’t for me. And then the
Jason (53:11)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (53:12)
financial crisis said, Well now’s the right time to really pivot. it just worked out that way, that you know
I was kind of hit over the head multiple times there. It’s time.
Jason (53:21)
Do you think that we’re gonna discuss real quickly how you got into the foundation at at Grand Circle? But at the time, were you like, would you have been open to, you know, if I had a half dozen things and all of them were different, I don’t know, industries, but all of them were foundation giving, something meaningful. Would you have had a particular affinity towards the travel at Grand Circle stuff, or would it have
Did that have anything to do with it? ‘Cause you hadn’t traveled but maybe you wanted to. I don’t
Brian FitzGerald (53:51)
Yeah.
Jason (53:51)
know. I’m just curious.
Brian FitzGerald (53:52)
Even still, the travel wasn’t the draw. It was more the
Jason (53:55)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (53:56)
idea of being of service and giving back. And
Jason (53:58)
All right.
Brian FitzGerald (53:59)
so that’s what brought me here was the foundation. And then I fell in love with travel and really our way of doing travel. it being a family-owned business and owning so much of the distribution channel, you really get to know the customers at a deep level, and so that relationship was so unique. Our relationship with our vendors all
Over the world. This idea that we’re providing leadership and economic opportunities in communities where that doesn’t exist. And so the
Jason (54:26)
Yeah, yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (54:27)
scope of what I thought was giving back was so small compared to the opportunity here, it completely blew open my mind to the possibilities. And I would say that’s a theme here is for me here, and I think a lot of people is we set our own boundaries of what’s possible, and you need sometimes external forces or people will
Jason (54:45)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (54:45)
just shatter.
those constraints you put on yourself and and that’s been a through line for me here. I’ve had a lot of great mentors, Alan Lewis the founder constantly was pushing me outside my comfort zone and saying stop limiting yourself.
Jason (54:59)
Mm.
Brian FitzGerald (54:59)
I would say one of the things
Jason (55:00)
Wow.
Brian FitzGerald (55:00)
he said to me most often was, you can’t become who you’re gonna become being who you are today. I heard that probably
Jason (55:06)
Yeah. Yep.
Brian FitzGerald (55:07)
once a week of saying, keep growing, keep changing. You don’t even realize what’s possible. You’re you’re s you’re your own limiting force right now.
Jason (55:15)
Yeah, absolutely. That’s very cool. Did I do want to touch on cause cause you mentioned it briefly in passing, you’d had a girlfriend that you ended up to go visit her. So let’s touch on that real quick. Where did she fit in? Where are you?
Well, we don’t need I don’t need to know all the details. I I’m actually you know what, I’m not even interested in her unless unless unless you’re married to her now. But you said ex girlfriend. So okay. So let’s just discuss the trip. Where did you where did you go? That’s all I’m trying to get at. Where and when in the process? What’s that?
Brian FitzGerald (55:38)
Yeah. Yeah, she studied in London. She
studied in London
and so I went over there my junior year for Thanksgiving and spent a week. And that week was just absorbing as much of the culture as we could. I was a history fan and a a music fan. I was the Beatles are always my favorite band growing up, still are. And so going to Abbey Road and the history of it, but then the connection to the Beatles, it was just all my passions, history, and music at the same time, and and this idea of a how much more is
there to experience of the world and it it just w was my first taste of that.
Jason (56:15)
So it’s interesting because the way I just saw and and heard you describe that, you said it was your kind of your first taste. it seems like it was a a good a good experience. But it didn’t exactly, based on our conversation so far, it didn’t exactly cause you to change direction.
Brian FitzGerald (56:30)
No.
Jason (56:31)
You were still kind of doing the financing. Did it plant enough of a seed? Like were you thinking I want to come back here someday? I just give me some kind of idea, or was it just
It just kinda laid dormant until later on in life or what?
Brian FitzGerald (56:44)
I guess I just didn’t think at that time I was still in college, that it was possible. As as I said, I I grew up w w middle income, lower middle income,
Jason (56:53)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (56:54)
where I I just thought that this was an experience that was reserved for the wealthy people were were able to travel.
Jason (57:00)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (57:01)
which is also another thing I love about our company is we’re trying to change people’s lives and we’re making that accessible. It’s not just for the top one percent. You know, we’re a lot of our our our travelers are former.
educators, former teachers, lifelong learners, and and our value and how we put together our trips is a key component because we want to make them as exclusive, not as exclusive as possible. We want to make them as accessible as we can.
Jason (57:27)
Right, very cool. So when you got the job, tell me what was your your first role with the foundation?
Brian FitzGerald (57:34)
Yeah, I was the head of finance. I came in as head of finance and then eventually was head of finance and controller of the foundation. and at that time I was the first I would say financially minded member of the foundation. It was always
Jason (57:50)
I was gonna that was
the next question I was gonna ask is how did you fit in? You were the finance
guy.
Brian FitzGerald (57:55)
It was
a small team and it was a passionate team. And and certainly Alan and Harriet, the owners of the company, they they founded the foundation in 1992. And since then they’ve pledged or donated over 260 million dollars giving back to the communities we traveled to. So they were passionate about the work, but there was not a lot of controls and structure in place with how we were getting donations, getting funds to the local communities and and tracking progress of
of the different works. And so I came in and inherited a bit of a financial mess there, but brought a lot of structure and discipline to it and with that changed a lot of the ways we thought about what the foundation could be. And I would say that was probably the first thing that really put me on Alan’s radar at the time was the challenging of the status quo and and really the idea that I could improve on something and be curious and want to learn and and and part of a you know building something bigger.
Jason (58:51)
I suspect that in your past you maybe identified as I’m a finance guy, right? I’m a finance guy, I work do mutual funds or I’m you know, organizing and making sense of the donors and payouts and what we’re doing with the foundation. But if I were to ask you right now, if I just match out of the blue, which I kind of did this morning Not quite, we
Brian FitzGerald (59:12)
Ha ha ha.
Jason (59:14)
we arrange this a little bit, but you know
You probably wouldn’t have said, Hey Jason, my name’s Brian. I’m a finance guy. you know, because now you’re I I envision you or I see you more of as a passionate world traveler and changer of of lives, right?
Brian FitzGerald (59:30)
Yeah.
Jason (59:30)
So I’m curious, do you remember when it shifted from I’m the finance guy to, I’m in this because I really like the travel stuff and even you know, and
D do you know what I’m trying to ask? Do you know what I’m trying to ask? I’m not sure I know.
Brian FitzGerald (59:44)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I I c I often joke, you know, our CFO, Chris Sigma, he’s been here twenty plus years. He was my boss for a long time here and a great mentor of mine. And I always joke now that I’m seeing I was I was really a poor finance guy for all those years. Why did you let me go? And he said, No you weren’t. You don’t don’t say that. But I think what you’re saying is
Finance guy is such a limiting term. And I would say it was really Alan the founder who pushed me
To dream bigger, and he did this with everyone that came into his orbit was to push beyond our self-limitations. And so with every update I give, yes, I’d give them the numbers, I’d give them the financial update, but then you’d say, Great, now what do you want to do about it? There’s such a strong bias towards okay, don’t just keep score, do something. What would you do if you were the business owner? What action would you take? And that’s something that really resonated with me. I’ve always been more.
of
an action-oriented person than someone who wants to just keep score. I want to influence the company, those around me. I want to have a say and I want to go to action and and try to improve something. This idea that we can constantly be improving and taking action and learning really connected with me. So that exploded my mind from just being someone who keeps score to okay what what would what should we do? Let’s try something. Yeah.
Jason (1:01:01)
Yeah, what are what do these numbers actually mean and what can we do with
them? Do you I I’m sh I’m sure it’s a stereotype. Maybe it’s a stereotype I have in my head, but do you think that maybe people that identify as finance people, maybe people that go to school for finance, is that a challenge for the typical person that goes into finance? as opposed to maybe the person that goes into outdoor recreational
Brian FitzGerald (1:01:25)
What’s that?
Jason (1:01:26)
or s or something like that.
It I don’t know, is that is that a common thing that if you were to go out and interview people and they say I’m a finance person, are you gonna ask specific questions to try and judge their ability and their to be flexible and to to take action?
Brian FitzGerald (1:01:43)
Yeah, I do think it it’s a a common stereotype of finance, but I I think it’s all of all of us. when we let ourselves stay in a box, what we’re really saying is we’re afraid of being accountable. Because the more you put your ideas out there and recommendations and actions, the reality is not all of them are gonna work. And so you have
Jason (1:02:01)
Right.
Brian FitzGerald (1:02:02)
to be open to making mistakes and learning from them and growing and knowing that success is only built on
hundreds and hundreds of mistakes where you’ve learned what not to do and you’re okay with that. You have thick enough skin to say, yeah, I’m gonna continue to put myself out there to grow, to learn, and be open to the criticism, real or perceived. You know, in in my experience
Jason (1:02:23)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:02:24)
it’s more perceived criticism than real. and
Jason (1:02:26)
Mm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:02:28)
and so
That ability to keep pushing and keep getting in the batter’s box and swinging is the only way you’re ever gonna get a hit.
Jason (1:02:35)
You I don’t I don’t know your whole family situation right now, but so do you have young people in your life? That that you’ve got three kids. All right.
Brian FitzGerald (1:02:44)
Yeah, yeah. I have three kids. Three kids. a son
who’s turning ten next week,
Jason (1:02:52)
wow.
Brian FitzGerald (1:02:52)
a daughter who’s seven and another daughter who’s four.
Jason (1:02:55)
So you’ve got a lot of years ahead of you of repeating what you just said to me. To to it well, not exactly the same way, but to them, right? Cause that’s a big challenge of being a parent is is moderating that space between teaching them how to be responsible, but also teaching them how to take risks. That’s
Brian FitzGerald (1:03:15)
Yeah.
Jason (1:03:15)
a challenge, right? I
Brian FitzGerald (1:03:17)
Mantra
is get comfortable being uncomfortable. You know, because that’s where growth happens. It’s outside your comfort zone, it’s on the other side.
Jason (1:03:23)
Right on the other side. It sounds like you read some of the same books
and talked to the same s people I have. That’s cool.
Brian FitzGerald (1:03:28)
Everything worthwhile is on the other side of your comfort zone. So
Jason (1:03:31)
Yeah,
yeah, I get that. Well your your kids are very, very lucky to have you.
And I’m curious because I you know, I’m guessing you had an amazing childhood. Your parents gave you the tools you needed, but your life back then, when you were 10, is very different from your children’s lives, because presumably
Brian FitzGerald (1:03:49)
Absolutely.
Jason (1:03:50)
they’re getting exposed to travel probably already. Actually, let’s let’s dig into that.
Brian FitzGerald (1:03:54)
Yeah.
Jason (1:03:56)
tell me a little bit about how you’ve exposed your kids to travel, kind of what that looks like. What’s what’s it gonna look like growing up in your household?
Brian FitzGerald (1:04:03)
Well the goal is it’s one international trip per year. Now we did wait a little bit to start and then the pandemic threw a little bit of a wrinkle in that. So
Jason (1:04:11)
yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:04:12)
we’ve done two international trips as a family so far. Our first
Jason (1:04:15)
All right.
Brian FitzGerald (1:04:16)
one was to Iceland. because my youngest at that time was maybe a year and a half. And so Iceland from Boston, it’s an easy flight. So we said let’s test this and it was so incredibly successful. My kids really
really
just as a family what a unique time to bond together in this completely foreign landscape. It was such a mix of this downtown Reykjavik, there’s the farmland just outside, and then there’s almost like a moon landscape of just volcanic fields as far as you can see. And it was just so foreign. It was such a great experience to say, hey, this is something different that we’ve never seen or experienced. and
Jason (1:04:55)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:04:55)
me and my wife loved it so
So much we we then went to Italy this year. I was there for work for a couple days. I said, Why don’t you guys come with me? And we got to go to the Coliseum, got go to the Vatican. it was really, really excited. So we’re in the middle of planning our next one, either Ireland or Scotland. we talked about Scotland.
Jason (1:05:11)
That’s burk, yeah, yeah.
They’re still pretty young. And I remember traveling with with my kids a bit when they were younger, specifically my my son when he was a teenager. We’ve done quite a bit of traveling the last few years. But when he was 10, 11, or 12, there wasn’t a whole lot of appreciation for
Brian FitzGerald (1:05:29)
Yeah.
Jason (1:05:30)
pretty much anything that wasn’t his idea. So
Brian FitzGerald (1:05:33)
Yeah.
Jason (1:05:34)
do you see it in their eyes? Do they seem excited? Maybe the 10-year-old,
What are your what’s your take so far? Do you think they’re gonna continue to enjoy this for a while?
Brian FitzGerald (1:05:43)
I think they will. you know, as along with music, I’ve always been a lover of movies. And so I’ve had a long list of movies I’ve wanted to share with my son when he was older. And we just finished up watching the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies, and now
Jason (1:05:56)
Uh-huh.
Brian FitzGerald (1:05:56)
he’s passionate about going to New Zealand. And I said, Okay, we got maybe a little bit later, because I don’t know if I’m ready to take that flight with my four-year-olds. But
Jason (1:06:06)
Yeah, I get it.
Brian FitzGerald (1:06:06)
We’re seeing
stuff and he’s connecting it to I wanna go and see it myself, not just experience it on the screen.
Jason (1:06:13)
That’s yeah, that’s very cool. I wonder I’m just sharing this because maybe someone in that’s listening to this will find it useful as well. But one thing that I love what you just said about making the connections, right? And my son got into this game called Geoguesser where okay, where they
Brian FitzGerald (1:06:29)
Yep. Yep. Familiar.
Jason (1:06:31)
they kind of drop you in a Google map somewhere and you can kind of navigate around and the idea is that you try and guess where you’re at and pin it on the map and see how close you are.
He and I play he’s 19. We still sit on the couch and play jail guesser together.
Brian FitzGerald (1:06:43)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:06:44)
And he’s done enough traveling now that, you know, I remember a couple years ago. We’d we’d gone to Malaysia. We’d been in Kuala Lumpur, and he reached out to me one day. He was still in high school and he he was play playing jail guesser in school, which probably wasn’t supposed to be doing. But anyway, they dropped him right in front of the peddling market in Kuala Lumpur, which is like Chinatown.
Brian FitzGerald (1:07:08)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:07:09)
He was so
excited. He’s Dad, Dad, you’ll never guess where they dropped me. And so my point is sometimes those those connections, like it’s not like when he was there with me, honest honestly, he was bitching and moaning about something. He was hungry and wanted to go to McDonald’s or whatever, you know. So at the time, or the it kind of stinks, you know, there was there was a fish market there and he was kind of complaining about this and that. But when they make the connections to other things in the world that aren’t just this
Brian FitzGerald (1:07:33)
Yeah.
Jason (1:07:34)
is what my dad and I are doing.
It starts to tie and then it starts to get cool. So that’s
Brian FitzGerald (1:07:38)
Yeah.
Jason (1:07:38)
you know, so that that’s what resonates with me when you mentioned New Zealand. That’s that’s pretty cool. Do you envision a time where you do s like one on one or you know, maybe you and your son go somewhere and don’t take the whole family? Is that on the radar? Because that can be interesting. I don’t know. I mean, I guess I’ve had it, but it wasn’t a conscious choice. I just said only had one kid that was the right age to travel with me at the time. You’ve got
Three. So have you thought about doing that?
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:06)
Yeah, me and my wife have both talked about that being our goal down the road, especially as they they start to become more young adults, is that opportunity for one-on-one, both of us taking
Jason (1:08:16)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:17)
different trips with them to it’s such a a great opportunity to bond with one another on the road
Jason (1:08:21)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:22)
and experience something new and and to just check in with each other outside of the day-to-day. You know, that’s the great thing about traveling is you leave all your day-to-day responsibilities behind and you’re somewhere where you can really immerse yourself in the present.
Jason (1:08:34)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:35)
And so
Jason (1:08:35)
Are you able to do that in your
in your role though? Because some people have a hard time doing that. It’s they drag the computer with them everywhere. What is your how do you balance your work life balance work life balance?
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:46)
I would say there’s two tricks. One it’s having a great team that
Jason (1:08:49)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:50)
you could delegate to, and then the trip has to be at least ten days long.
Anything shorter than that and it takes a couple days to leave everything behind. And then
Jason (1:08:59)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:08:59)
if it’s only seven days, you’re right into gearing up for all everything I left behind. It’s is already getting ready for. So I I found that ten day trip, there’s a beautiful period right in the middle where you’re out of the day-to-day and you’re not worrying about what you’re coming back to yet.
Jason (1:09:12)
You’re actually there. I love it.
And and I’m also curious because I know when I worked at Orvis, I would do a lot of they were work trips and then every once in a while I get a chance to actually just go somewhere because I wanted to. But I didn’t want to go to anywhere where they knew me. They didn’t know where I was from because you’d show up and, you know, maybe it’s your vacation, but the lodge manager
the guy from Oris is coming. And then before you know it, all the guests at the lodge know that there’s a guy from Orivis coming. So I show up, and the first night there they start telling me about the bamboo fly rod that their grandfather gave them, or the or even worse, the leaky waders. You know, why can’t you guys make waders that don’t leak and all that stuff? And it was just kind of really hard to to actually feel like I was able to have my own experience, I guess, especially
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:01)
Yeah.
Jason (1:10:01)
if family’s with you.
So I guess where I’m going with that is when you travel, do you tend to go on maybe not with the the kids, but what does that look like for you, Brian, if you want to go on a trip with the kids? Like do they always know you’re, you know, Grand Circle Corporation or OAT or or do you try and avoid those situations?
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:22)
I would say most of the time it tends be more incognito, but
Jason (1:10:26)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:26)
On each trip, I do see it as an opportunity to learn and then I do kind of put on the hat and say, okay, what a unique opportunity. Please tell me what can we do better? That opportunity
Jason (1:10:35)
I know. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:37)
for that live feedback on the gr on the road, there’s nothing
Jason (1:10:40)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:41)
like it. So sometimes it there could be a breakdown between what we believe is happening in Boston and what’s actually happening. And so
Jason (1:10:47)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:48)
that opportunity to really have that conversation, get that feedback, it it’s so valuable that I found
It’s great to have those conversations with vendors, with employees, and travelers wherever we can,
Jason (1:10:58)
And customers.
Brian FitzGerald (1:10:59)
because often we’ll run into groups of our travelers where we are. And if I’m able to, I’ll do a cocktail hour with them at the hotel bar and say, hey, I’m here. I’d love to just hear about your trip. What’s what I know what’s going great, but more, what can we do better? That’s kind
Jason (1:11:12)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:11:13)
of where I focus is how can we improve.
Jason (1:11:15)
And and I get that because I could say, they always know who I am. Yes, but you know what, and realistically, and I hear it in your voices, maybe for a day or two I just wanna like have not anybody not have anybody know where I’m from, not like trying to show me everything. But but then my curiosity kicks in.
Brian FitzGerald (1:11:33)
Yeah.
Jason (1:11:34)
And I know I’m gonna start asking questions that the typical guest is never gonna ask. And I’m gonna wanna know so much more. And sometimes it’s like the only way they’re gonna open up to me is if I tell them why am I asking.
all these questions. and it yeah, and then the conversations with with people that you you hear so many valuable things. Sometimes when they just they wow, I’ve got I’ve got a set of ears to listen to me share everything I always wanted to share about Ouro, but I’ve never had a chance to so anyway, that’s pretty cool. So go ahead.
Brian FitzGerald (1:12:01)
Yeah. We just a quick story
there in in listening.
We’ve always had a belief that we’re co-parenting these brands with
Jason (1:12:08)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:12:09)
our travelers. You know, anyone who’s an international traveler, it’s not just something they do, it’s part of their identity. And they
Jason (1:12:15)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:12:15)
who they travel with is a key decision they’re making. So right now, all of our bookings go through our call center that we operate ourselves. And an average booking call is almost 50 minutes, 5’0. Because
Jason (1:12:29)
Wow.
Brian FitzGerald (1:12:29)
we’re really trying to understand from the traveler why choose this destination.
What do they want? But we’re also learning a lot about them and connecting with them. And then after each trip, we send a survey out 100 to 120 questions about their experience. And we make changes to products based on what they say. So if they don’t
Jason (1:12:47)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:12:47)
like a hotel, they don’t like a restaurant, we make changes. And so this idea that they’re co-parenting the brand and that we’re listening, it’s a gold mine of feedback and data points to help make
sure that we’re still offering the right experience that our travelers want.
Jason (1:13:03)
Probably the the idea is that if the traveler feels like they’re helping shape the company, they’re helping shape the experience for the next person, but also for themselves. You know, when they when they go on the next cause as you mentioned, you said you’ve had travelers have had like seventy five trips with with you.
Brian FitzGerald (1:13:18)
yeah. Yeah.
Jason (1:13:20)
So yeah, if you’re gonna keep going with somebody, you might as well pitch in and help help influence it a little bit. I do want to touch on the I think you called them
The experienced people, the people on the ground. What was the term you use for the leaders? Trip
Brian FitzGerald (1:13:35)
Trip experience leaders.
Jason (1:13:36)
experience leaders. And those it sounds like most of the time or maybe always are the local people on the ground.
Brian FitzGerald (1:13:43)
Yep. One hundred percent of the
time we hire someone who lives in the community where you’re traveling. We train I mean they’re they’re they’re guides by by trade, but then we train how to deliver the experience for our travelers. But they’re they’re all
Jason (1:13:56)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (1:13:57)
vocals. And that that’s really one of the the secrets and the sauce of of overseas adventure travel is going direct and i it it adds to the authenticity we discussed.
Jason (1:14:06)
Do you also either always or on occasion or ever have kind of that that trip leader? So what I’m envisioning is the trip leader maybe is from the US or some maybe from the US, but then you’ve got the locals that actually run the excursions and are very involved in the experiences, but you’ve got a tour manager, whatever name or title you might give it. Do you have that as well? Or
Brian FitzGerald (1:14:31)
No, so
none of our our our trip experience leaders are from the US. So imagine you’re going to Egypt, you’re gonna fly into Cairo, when you land
Your trip experience leader is someone who grew up in Egypt, will meet you at the airport. They’re with you for every day, staying at the same hotel, going to the same restaurants, along
Jason (1:14:51)
Okay.
Brian FitzGerald (1:14:51)
with every experience, until they bring you back to the airport and you fly home. And that’s someone who’s a local, grew up in that community, who’s really opening the door to their home and really showcasing their community to you. but it’s it’s not someone from the US going with you. No.
Jason (1:15:09)
Just to restate what I heard, and I think you made it very clear, but what I heard was if you go on one of these traps, the only other Americans, people from the US, that you’re gonna see on those trips in close up anyway, is are the other travelers with you. There’s no US trip leader, it’s just but you’ve got a very good local person that’s doing it. That’s pretty cool. Do you get has it always
always as long. You guys have been around for a while, but has it always been that way? Because I I recognize some some tour businesses, some travel businesses think they need to send a US trip leader for the, you know, for the guest to feel more like there’s another American there that’s in charge, type of thing. So I’m just voicing it out loud. Has has it ever been that way? Does that ever come up? Or have you guys just consciously made the decision, yeah, we’re not gonna do that?
Brian FitzGerald (1:15:57)
Yeah, that’s always been our model is to go local. And, you know, if you wanna come to Boston, I’m the right guy to show you around town. But if you wanna go to Botswana or Tanzania, there’s no one like a local to show you the hidden gems, the off the beaten path. You don’t wanna go where all the tourists go. Tell me where the locals are and where
Jason (1:16:13)
Yeah, I get that.
Brian FitzGerald (1:16:14)
are they going. Where’s the best restaurants? It’s it’s more often not not the tourist traps. So that’s Ben how we’ve designed the trips always is they know, you know
how to showcase their their communities and and really where the the gems are. So
Jason (1:16:29)
I
I get I get that completely and and you answered that very, very clearly. And I guess it i I went back to the flashback of when I would lead some trips for Orvis. It was like, yeah, I was not the expert. I never pretended to be the expert. I was just
Brian FitzGerald (1:16:41)
Yeah.
Jason (1:16:42)
I was just the guy there to to to sit and how’s your day, you know, at the end of the day, or j or just go with them and just be part of the experience. And they’d ask me a question. I’m like, I don’t know, let’s ask let’s ask the the person that lives here because I’m just really here just to
sometimes make people feel more comfortable. An example might be, you know, I lead a trip to Venezuela. And maybe there’s, you know, some of the people that might might want to go to Venezuela are not going to go to Venezuela unless there’s somebody that looks like them, sounds like them, and and that will go along with them, even though I wasn’t really adding any value. So I just was but yeah,
Brian FitzGerald (1:17:19)
Yeah.
Jason (1:17:20)
I I understand why you’re saying
Brian FitzGerald (1:17:20)
I think one of things
there, there’s a couple things. A lot of people have heard this idea of traveling like a local. And and
Jason (1:17:26)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:17:26)
with this model, you’re traveling with a local. It’s someone who grew up there. But
Jason (1:17:29)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:17:32)
you also keep in mind, to your point, OET has been doing this for almost 50 years. You’re in circle for almost
Jason (1:17:36)
That’s yeah, yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:17:37)
70. So we have deep relationships with these communities, with the vendors, with the partners. so that’s also what you’re getting is that these are vetted experiences.
Experiences that we’ve delivered for years and you have the support of a local office if if safety is ever a concern of yours. we have thirty-five worldwide offices and we’ve been operating seventy years. We’ve we’ve seen and and and been through it all.
Jason (1:18:00)
Yeah,
yeah. These the local experts that you hire, is there an age consideration when it comes to is it maturity? So for example, if you’ve got a group of retired folks from the US, is it helpful to have maybe an older tripletor or or does it matter in your experience? just
Brian FitzGerald (1:18:20)
No, I I wouldn’t say that age a c is a consideration, but we do have pretty strict training guides and expectations, high expectations for delivering a life-changing experience. And so as I said earlier, we survey every traveler, hundred to a hundred and twenty questions about their experience. A lot of them are about the guide. And at the end of the day, we get a seventy-two percent response rate from our travelers who are giving us
Jason (1:18:43)
Wow.
Brian FitzGerald (1:18:44)
feedback and we’ll only continue to schedule
guides if our travelers are rating the experience excellent. if they’re not meeting our standards then then we will train them up or or or not schedule them anymore. Because it it’s so critical to the experience, that relationship with your trip experience leader.
Jason (1:19:00)
You’ve done an amazing job touching on the authenticity and the experiences, the the authentic experiences that you wish to share with your customers. That at this point, now I can I feel com comfortable asking you, how big is Grand Circle Corporation? Because we’ve done a good job of connecting with the
Brian FitzGerald (1:19:19)
Yeah.
Jason (1:19:20)
authentic experience. And you don’t I don’t want to lead in with how big is Grand Circle, because people might just shut down, it’s a big corporation, da-da-da-da-da. But sometimes it does take.
a lot of people to offer really high level experience. So on that, how many employees do you guys have?
Brian FitzGerald (1:19:35)
So we have about three thousand associates and independent contractors supporting us in in the work we do in a hundred plus countries around the world. as I said, we we go direct and that’s two to three thousand local vendors and small business owners around the world, from small boutique hotels or restaurants that help deliver the experience. So it’s a pretty sizable organization. but
Jason (1:20:00)
Yeah.
Brian FitzGerald (1:20:00)
that’s also what you’re buying is w it it’s
It’s White Glove Service. We have planned all the logistics for you and have an operations and system that allows us to read and react to anything that might happen on the road to continue to deliver a a life-changing experience.
Jason (1:20:16)
Cool.
And your your planners and I guess the planners or advisors are they all in Boston?
Brian FitzGerald (1:20:23)
So Boston is headquarters for corporate, we have finance accounting here and and some marketing, but the trips really live with the regional leaders. As I said, I’m not gonna sit here in Boston and design an itinerary for Rome. I’m gonna go to our Rome office and say, hey, how do we wanna design this experience? Who should we partner with? Who are the vendors? So our regional leaders are the ones who help us design the itineraries and the experiences.
Jason (1:20:49)
okay. I
didn’t want to use the word sales, but I think it’s what I was was getting out of your sales your sales team.
Brian FitzGerald (1:20:54)
Yeah. Sales, that that’s in Boston. You call into Boston and and
we have our sales associates are all here in in the US, in different parts of the country.
Jason (1:21:04)
Does it do you think most of the people on your sales teams kind of feel like this this job is the bomb? This is pretty cool. I get to work in the travel business. I suspect there’s opportunities for them to go familiarize themselves occasionally and and those opportunities. So somebody that’s listening because I believe we’ve got a lot of people listening to this that might be interested in working for, you know, Grand Circle Travel or OAT. what what would you like people to know that
maybe interested in coming to work for you. I don’t even know if you have any jobs. I don’t know if you how often you open them up, but what would
Brian FitzGerald (1:21:34)
Yeah.
Jason (1:21:34)
you like somebody to know that’s listening to this that thinks, man, that might be a cool job.
Brian FitzGerald (1:21:39)
one, yes, there are some jobs available. We’re we’re always looking to add incredible talent to the team. I would say this place has changed my life and for the right person who has the right values, it it can certainly change yours. If you’re interested in travel, so we
Jason (1:21:52)
What are the right values? What are the right values?
Brian FitzGerald (1:21:54)
have company values are risk taking, open and courageous communication, emotional maturity, teamwork, speed, and quality. and really the first three are
How we define a leader. And that’s what we’re looking for. It’s that idea of I was financed, but I wasn’t leading, until you go to action and you really put some skin in the game. So we’re looking for people who are willing to take a risk, people who are gonna be open and courageous and say the unpopular thing. There’s no non-discussibles. If there’s a hot issue or or a barrier, we need to put it on the table. We need to address it with urgency. You know, this idea that we want to change people’s lives through travel,
What an incredible mission. But these are fellow American travelers who’ve waited their whole life to take this safari. This is a bucketless trip that they’ve dreamed about
Jason (1:22:40)
Mm-hmm.
Brian FitzGerald (1:22:41)
for 20 years. We set a high bar in in delivering that. So we don’t lack for committed, passionate people. And if you want to join some of the most talented, curious, passionate driven people, this is the place for you.
Jason (1:22:55)
Yeah, and I suspect that anybody that listens to the Big World Made Small podcast probably gets that part of the value. And so if they’re listening to this conversation, they should you know, look into it.
Brian FitzGerald (1:23:07)
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason (1:23:08)
Brian, we we’ve discussed a a lot of things, but I also recognize there’s some things that we just absolutely are n probably never gonna get to. But I wanna make sure you have an opportunity. I just wanna ask you, Brian, what do you wish I would have asked you? What do you feel like we’ve left out?
Brian FitzGerald (1:23:22)
Yeah.
Jason (1:23:22)
that
maybe we should touch on before we wrap up.
Brian FitzGerald (1:23:24)
The only thing I would say, we touched on a little bit, but the the role of the Grand Circle Foundation, it’s not only what brought me in here, but it’s another way we fulfill the company’s mission of changing people’s lives. It’s giving back to the communities that give us so much. And it’s not just financial resources, we do it with real sweat equity. So our associates around the world are working side by side with the communities on what projects can we partner on that are going to improve.
The quality of life in that in that area. And so we support a lot of schools around the world. I know the Lewis family was just on Safari and they visited one of the schools, and they’re funding wells, making sure that the school has access to water and bathroom and sanitation needs there just to make going to school a little easier. And so it’s not just something that we do afterwards. A lot of times our travelers get to go and visit these schools, and these different foundations.
sites and see it firsthand. And that emotional connection and this idea that we’re we’re not just over tourism and taking from the communities but but really partnering with them to honor and give back it’s a key part of who we are and I really just wanted to underscore that that I’m really grateful to our travelers who are passionate about the work and donate over a million dollars every year to help us support the communities around the world because they see it and they want to be part of that. And so it it’s
It’s
been a win-win relationship with us, with our vendors, with our communities. It gives us great access. but then our travelers helping us on a mission of giving back. It’s it it’s really powerful.
Jason (1:24:55)
Yeah, I can
tell. And I suspect this is not all your travelers donating directly. You guys are doing a lot as well. And here’s where I want to go with this is I think that sometimes some travelers, probably not your travelers, but some travelers, when they’re on a trip and they’re taken somewhere where there’s a school project or a well or a community center and they feel like, okay, here’s your chance to donate.
But they just kind of feel like, okay, this is what the company’s doing for this school is they’re bringing rich I’m gonna say rich Americans and hoping that the rich Americans will donate or buy or something like that. But the organization, the maybe the tour operator isn’t doing anything else other than giving these communities an opportunity to pitch their their needs or whatever.
Brian FitzGerald (1:25:45)
Yeah.
Jason (1:25:46)
But I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here. So
Brian FitzGerald (1:25:48)
No.
Jason (1:25:49)
that’s why I wanna ask I’m not I
Brian FitzGerald (1:25:51)
Yeah.
Jason (1:25:51)
don’t know what the question is, but please
Help me with that.
Brian FitzGerald (1:25:54)
Yeah, I I would say there’s a couple things here. One, the the travel company funds all of the overhead costs of operating the foundation. So one hundred percent of all traveler donations go right back to the community. There’s no administrative GNA costs associated with the foundation passed on to the traveler. Two, we’re working with the different foundation sites or communities on specific projects that they need. And then we’re helping facilitate those. It could be new
desks we’re not just cutting a check it’s our office in that area is going and purchasing and delivering the desks and then our travelers get to go and see here were the old desks now here’s the new desks that our travelers helped fund or we do volunteer days around the world where this office will be going to a site and will help clean up or paint or or really dig the the wells and really that’s the sweat equity component of we’re in it with the community working side by side it’s not
just cutting a check and providing financial resources. We want to make sure that the work is getting done and partner with you and and that investment is almost as great as the financial resources. It’s it’s that level of support that we’re in it with you and it’s it’s a a real sense of community that our travelers see it it’s it’s incredible when you see it firsthand.
Jason (1:27:11)
Cool. I during this entire conversation, I’ve seen the passion that you have in your face. I hope that anybody that’s only been listening on audio go back and at least jump in at any point during this conversation and see the look on Brian’s face. If there’s any doubt in your mind of how how passionate you are about this, then then I want them to see your face. and can can somebody participate.
In supporting the foundation without ever going on a trip with guys? I suspect so. All right.
Brian FitzGerald (1:27:40)
Absolutely. We have we would love the support. we’re doing some great projects all around the world. As I said, we’re in a
a hundred and plus countries. And so anyone who’s interested in learning more about the types of projects and the sites that we’re supporting, from schools to orphanages, to women’s initiatives, just go to Grand Circle Foundation dot org and
Jason (1:28:04)
All right.
Brian FitzGerald (1:28:04)
There’s
a lot of great information there about the work that we’re doing as well as an opportunity to support.
Jason (1:28:10)
And we’re going to have a link to your website right in the show notes as well. And I suspect that if they don’t remember what you just said about.org, they’ll re they’ll be able to go through the link that we put in the show notes.
Brian FitzGerald (1:28:21)
Absolutely.
Jason (1:28:22)
yeah, and I just want to make sure people are able to connect with you, whatever that looks like.
Brian FitzGerald (1:28:26)
Mm-hmm.
Jason (1:28:27)
because I learned so much. I’ve been in the travel space for a long time, but really haven’t had the opportunity to learn really anything about Grand Circle Corporation. And you a lot of the
ideas and thoughts and stuff I had my in my head you just blew out of the water. So thank you so much. This is this is this has
Brian FitzGerald (1:28:45)
thank you, Jason.
Jason (1:28:46)
been a fascinating conversation. Brian, let’s let’s stay in touch and and see what else we can do to kind of get your word out there about the the foundation, but also just see if we can change some more lives together. So thank you so much. I appreciate you showing up today.
Brian FitzGerald (1:28:59)
thank you. It was fantastic.
Jason (1:29:01)
Talk to you real soon. All right, bye.
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