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Enjoy early access to Charles’s story here; before it is published to all of the popular platforms on September 15, 2026.

Episode #200: Charles J Kropke

CEO

The Windjammer Way

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Guest Bio

Charles J Kropke is the CEO of The Windjammer Way, a company dedicated to reviving the tradition of intimate sailing travel in the Caribbean. An entrepreneur and environmental advocate, Charles has spent decades shaping sustainable tourism experiences that connect travelers with culture, history, and nature. His leadership at The Windjammer Way focuses on restoring historic schooners and supporting fragile island economies while offering guests authentic, windswept adventures.

Charles’s journey began in childhood with an early fascination inspired by vintage National Geographic magazines and the original Windjammer Barefoot Cruises. That lifelong interest has evolved into a commitment to preserving maritime heritage and fostering meaningful travel experiences. Beyond The Windjammer Way, he founded Dragonfly Expeditions, an eco-tour company in Florida, and oversees Tropic Moon Holdings, a portfolio of mission-driven businesses emphasizing sustainability and community impact.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Charles J Kropke about his work revitalizing the iconic Windjammer sailing experience. Charles shares the story behind The Windjammer Way, a company resurrecting the spirit of classic tall ship cruises with their flagship vessel, the SV Mandalay, a 103-year-old steel-hulled schooner. Operating primarily in the Caribbean, their voyages emphasize small groups, cultural connection, and a relaxed, authentic atmosphere.

Charles reflects on his early inspiration from National Geographic and how that shaped his vision for sustainable and soulful travel. He describes the unique Windjammer culture where crew and guests blend seamlessly, with no televisions onboard and activities centered around storytelling, parties, and exploring remote islands. The conversation also touches on the challenges of restoring historic ships, navigating Caribbean itineraries with seasonal weather, and the company’s inclusive approach to travelers of all backgrounds.

Throughout the episode, Charles highlights his broader entrepreneurial path, including his eco-tourism company Dragonfly Expeditions and past collaborations with the Margaritaville brand. He invites listeners to reconnect with their inner child and consider the timeless appeal of wind-powered adventure as a new generation prepares to set sail.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ The Windjammer Way revives the intimate sailing cruise experience that Windjammer Barefoot Cruises made famous, focusing on small ships and immersive Caribbean itineraries.
  • ✓ The flagship SV Mandalay is a 245-foot steel-hulled schooner built in 1923, capable of hosting around 64 guests and 30 crew, providing a graceful, historic sailing environment.
  • ✓ Windjammer cruises emphasize a relaxed culture where crew and guests mingle freely, with no televisions onboard and an emphasis on storytelling, music, and social connection.
  • ✓ The company operates exclusively in the Caribbean, including the Bahamas, the eastern and western island chains, and plans for Cuba-to-Cuba cruises once possible.
  • ✓ Itineraries are flexible, generally lasting one week, with captains empowered to adjust plans based on weather and opportunities to explore remote islands.
  • ✓ Charles’s lifelong fascination with Windjammer began as a child through National Geographic ads, and his entrepreneurial journey has included sustainable eco-tours and branded travel experiences.
  • ✓ The Windjammer Way is committed to preserving maritime heritage, supporting Caribbean communities, and maintaining a welcoming atmosphere for a diverse range of travelers.
  • ✓ Seasonal hurricane risk is managed by adjusting ship locations, focusing on southern Caribbean ports during storm season for safety.
  • ✓ The company is restoring historic ships carefully, with the SV Mandalay already under renovation and plans to acquire and restore the four-masted schooner Polynesia.
  • ✓ The Windjammer culture includes traditions like raising and lowering sails to the tune of “Amazing Grace,” creating emotional and memorable experiences for guests.

What You’ll Find on The Windjammer Way

  • ✓ Authentic sailing adventures aboard classic tall ships with a small-group, intimate atmosphere.
  • ✓ Caribbean-focused itineraries exploring less accessible islands and culturally rich destinations.
  • ✓ A crew largely drawn from Caribbean communities, offering local knowledge, warmth, and genuine hospitality.
  • ✓ Opportunities for spontaneous and personalized experiences, including beach picnics, night parties, and stargazing on deck.
  • ✓ A commitment to preserving historic vessels and maritime traditions while adapting to modern travel expectations.
  • ✓ Inclusive travel that welcomes a wide spectrum of guests, from long-time enthusiasts to new generations and families during select seasons.

Learn more about The Windjammer Way and connect with Charles at:

https://www.thewindjammerway.com/

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Podcast Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.

Jason (00:00.876)
Welcome back everybody.

To another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today. And I’m very excited we’ve got a fascinating guest doing something that will resonate with some people. Some people will recognize some of the stuff we’re gonna talk about today, for sure. But what he’s doing with it is is pretty exciting. So I’m anxious to get in and start that conversation. We’ve got Charles J. Kropke here. He’s the CEO of The Windjammer Way, as well as a couple other business ventures. But Charlie, well Charles.

We discuss it. I’m not gonna call you Charlie. Charles, welcome, to the show. Happy to have you here. So tell me where are you physically located? You are. Okay, very cool.

Charles (00:34.031)
Thank you, Jason. Thank you. It’s a pleasure being on board.

Charles (00:45.111)
Yeah, I’m in Miami. Miami is home.

Jason (00:48.716)
All right, good deal. Before we’re gonna like really dig into figure out how you got from where you were to where you are, but I think it’s important to kind of figure out where you are first. It’ll kind of give it some context and our listeners will probably probably appreciate the opportunity to hear what is the windjammer way in your own words. I know there’s a lot of history. We’re not gonna cover all the history right now, but what is the wind jammer way, what’s what’s the concept and what should people know about that before we get started.

Charles (00:58.415)
Sure.

Charles (01:16.419)
Well, we’re the revival of a tall ship cruise line, a legendary Miami brand call called Windjamber Barefoot Cruises. It was around for sixty-four years and they closed shop in two thousand and eight and left behind tens of thousands of die hard fans and we decided it’s time to bring the brand back to life. And so we’re a continuation of that long legacy.

Jason (01:41.039)
I know that some people listen well, probably a lot of people listening to this saw Windjammer way in the on the show notes before they ever click through to listen. But I I know that an awful lot of people, especially around my age range, definitely resonated with the Windjammer Barefoot. They kinda have an idea what that looks like. But I can’t remember if you said tall ship, but let’s for those people that have never heard a Windjammer at all, what are we what are we talking about?

Charles (02:06.425)
We’re talking about beautiful classic sailing ships. so our our queen of the the line is the the SV Mandalay, sailing vessel Mandalay, which was built as a gift by E. F. Hutton for his wife Marjorie Merriweather Post in 1923. It was a gift. And we might know her as one of the wealthiest women in the country and the owner of the Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach.

Jason (02:35.246)
okay. You said S V and then you said sailing vessel. I just learned something new. I’ve spent enough time around water I should have figured that out by now, but thank you for that.

Charles (02:44.567)
That’s all right. S V is sailing vessel and V is motor vessel.

Jason (02:48.416)
Alright, very cool. And are these like for somebody that hasn’t can’t visualize that, are these really big boats, really little boats? ‘Cause everybody’s seen small sailboats. But I think it’s more than that, but it’s also not a it’s not the Caribbean cruise line size a boat either.

Charles (03:02.99)
No.

No, no, no. It’s it’s it’s small for a cruise ship.

It’s big for a a ship. It’s the mandalay is two hundred and forty five feet long and she reaches a hundred and three feet into the sky from her deck. it’s a massive, you know, it definitely catches your eye. very graceful vessel, but it’s it’s kind of moving backward in time. It’s something you expect, you know, from centuries past to see, you know, not something you would expect to see on the high seas today.

Jason (03:37.976)
Very cool. And give us an idea of how many passengers do you call berths, how you know, how many rooms, how many berths, how many passengers could you put on one?

Charles (03:46.643)
so we have thirty between thirty one and thirty two cabins available for guests on the mandalay. so that accounts for a potential sixty four guests and a crew of thirty. So just under a hundred people are sailing around on that ship. we have other ships that we are adding to the fleet, which will have capacity for forty two people, one has forty nine, and the most we’ll probably do is like a hundred and twenty five people because

We’re not about crowds.

Jason (04:18.082)
Yeah, yeah. And where are you operating? what part of the world are we talking about?

Charles (04:23.853)
So we are a Caribbean centric company. It’s only the Caribbean. We include the Bahamas in that. but we go all the way down the eastern chain of islands down to the top of South America, like Los Roques and Margarita Island and Arubo, Bonera Curacao. Then we go over to the western part of the Caribbean and we include the whole coast from the San Blas Islands of Panama up to the Yucatan of Mexico.

that’s you know, Costa Rica and Rotan and all those beautiful places. and then back again, we have great aspirations for a free Cuba to operate and we plan on being the first Cuba to Cuba cruise line, meaning that we’ll we’ll start in a Korea a Cuban port and we’ll go, you know, and end up back at that port again. So that you know, going to a different location.

Jason (05:11.534)
Okay.

Jason (05:17.868)
Alright. That’ll be probably very popular. That would be a I would I would do that for sure. I’ve been to Cuba, it’s a fascinating place. okay. So you mentioned a lot of places there and in my mind, the large cruise ships you

Charles (05:22.819)
We we think so.

Jason (05:36.728)
Go to f you fly to Fort Lauderdale, you get on a boat, you go hit a few of those places, you come back a week later and you get off the boat in Fort Lauderdale. But you named a lot of places, so I can’t and I’m guessing I don’t know if this boat moves faster, your your ships, but you’re not hitting all those places in one week, so tell me more about the logistics.

Charles (05:45.486)
Yeah.

Charles (05:55.161)
Well the thing is, Jason, we we actually don’t touch port in the mainland United States. The only American ports that we will touch base in would be Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands. But Art you have to fly in to the island and start your your voyage. So the itinerary for the Mandalay is Saint George’s Grenada.

Jason (06:01.294)
Okay.

Charles (06:19.225)
where you start and it goes through Grenada and the Grenadines Islands and Saint Vincent and then back to Grenada and then you would fly back to the US or Canada or wherever you’re visiting from. So we’re not a start we’re not a cruise line that starts in American ports.

Jason (06:31.534)
Okay.

Jason (06:36.846)
Okay. And I understand there’s some reasons behind all that, but we won’t get into that. Is but what I’m mostly curious about is over the course of the year, is that itinerary likely to just be a repeated itinerary every week? Will it change seasonally or what does that usually look like or

Charles (06:54.329)
Well we do charters, so destination weddings, in which case there’s a lot more variables. we do two week trips, so that will give us a larger range of islands. in general, you know, the the the set itinerary is a week long.

Jason (07:00.27)
Okay.

Charles (07:12.067)
But anything can change that. And something about windjammer culture is that the captain has discretion to do any wild number of things. If they want to stay an extra day or two because the islands are beautiful. If there’s a storm in front and it’s not likely to be good weather, the captain can make changes to the itinerary almost like a bear bear boat charter. And and can can make some alterations as long as he hews to the general idea of where we’re traveling and the week-long excursion.

Jason (07:34.242)
Uh-huh.

Charles (07:42.023)
So yeah, it’s also we we move around, we don’t really have the capacity to run from hurricanes. Smaller ships, you know, so our northern ships, the ones that would operate out of the Bahamas, Cuba, the Virgin Islands, the Northern Islands that are in the hurricane zone, even probably Jamaica, will

Jason (07:42.787)
Yeah.

Charles (08:08.291)
gravitate south and do like the A B C Islands and the San Blas and places that are outside of the hurricane zone. that’s just a safety feature so that we don’t, you know, ’cause with storms now accelerating at a greater pace and, you know, faster, more powerful, we don’t want to be in the position to outrun a storm.

Jason (08:17.112)
Well but

Jason (08:32.172)
So will you just kinda shift the operation every summer or is that like, okay, there’s something for ’emin’ off the coast of Africa, we better get started going south, or what does that look like?

Charles (08:37.742)
Yeah.

No, in the summertime we will move most of the ships south and do southernly ports. There’s enough. I mean, believe me, the Caribbean offers so many different types of paradise and like in ABC Islands you get desert like environments, you get brooding dark mountains in Martinique and you get, you know, crisp pristine white beaches in and in the Bahamas. There’s just so many different looks to the Caribbean. There’s so much to see. We’re not worried about

what what kind of offerings we you know we we know that people will enjoy our offerings.

Jason (09:16.102)
And also, people kind of know that about the Northern Caribbean in the summer and there’s a lot of people that probably would be more likely to go to, you know, Aruba, Bonaire or something like that, in the summer than than go to the Bahamas. Anyway, and I’m not knocking the Bahamas, I’m not saying people should not go there in the summer. So Ministry of Tourism if you’re listening.

Charles (09:35.533)
No, no, no. Well, no, no, the Bahamas. The Bahamas is actually the birthplace of Windjammer. Windjammer began in nineteen forty seven by traveling to the Bahamas. It will always be a special place for us. even even the close by Bimini Islands are some of the most beautiful places you’ll ever lay your eyes on. the waters there are just you can see from outer space. So

Jason (09:48.866)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jason (09:59.267)
Yeah. You there’s a lot of islands in the Bahamas that I’m f a bit familiar with, but one that I’m definitely very familiar with is Los Rocas and V off the coast and it’s in technically Venezuela. You mentioned that one specifically. So when I’ve been there I haven’t seen any big boats. I don’t really even remember much of a marina or anything like that. So

Charles (10:21.143)
No. And that’s the great thing. We have a nineteen foot draft.

That means that we can settle into ports and islands that the big ships can’t even get close to. And if for instance, if the the they don’t even have a a nineteen foot available draft, we can anchor off the islands and send our tenders sending two tenders in from our ship empties our ship. everybody’s, you know, ashore, two tenders, you know. That’s that’s our our raiding party is two tenders, you know, so

Jason (10:25.176)
Okay.

Jason (10:45.24)
Right.

Which I’ve d I’ve that’s cool. I’ve never been on the big ships, but I I’ve heard stories of people just kinda waiting for the tender boats and I’ve seen them. I lived in Belize and you know, I’d it’d be Belize City, you see people sitting around waiting.

Charles (11:01.485)
We call the f we not to disparage them, but we call them the foo foo ships, that’s our culture, you know, the big ones. And we have this miniature cannon. It shoots blanks, but it’s loud. And whenever we come up on one of them we usually fire, you know. So they they laugh at us, but it’s it’s a warning to you know.

Jason (11:21.23)
Yeah, yeah, well it’s it’s cool. And it touches on what you s what you mentioned earlier that I’d like to go a little deeper into is kind of the windjammer culture.

Charles (11:29.134)
Yes.

Jason (11:29.402)
you mentioned it, you explained a couple things, something like the canon. That’s like it kind of gives people feel for like, okay, this is kind of cool. This is not a big cruise ship. but I also have, because I’m old enough to remember probably some of the advertising, I have kind of pictures in my head of what I imagine it would be like being on one of these ships for a week. But I’d love to hear it from your words, because obviously you know a heck of a lot more about that than I do. So what is it like to be on one of these one of these ships for a week?

Charles (11:57.337)
Well, when I say that we’re a Caribbean centric cruise line, our staff, a large number of our staff and our our even our captains in some cases come from the Caribbean. And the Caribbean people are very warm, they have a really interesting sense of humor, they’re very disarming.

And they’re very protective. So if our guests go for a tour, a lot if they’re from that island or familiar with that island, they will go with our guests just to escort them and make sure that everybody is taken care of and safe.

They say often with a windjammer culture that by the end of the cruise you can’t identify who is the passenger and who works for the company. They mix, they dance, they they they get friendships. And of course, our people are working, but they have this way of of kind of being. And because we are showing the Caribbean, it’s all very appropriate for Caribbean people to be showing us their land, their culture, their foods, their traditions. We have other people that are on board, some American.

American staff, a few Europeans and you know, Canadian, Australian here and there, but our our the plurality of our staff come from our zone, from our Caribbean zone.

Jason (13:19.095)
Guests do a shore excursion pretty much every day or are there days that there’s just fun stuff to do on the ship or what does that typically look like?

Charles (13:27.927)
So it really depends on the person. There are people who are so exhausted by the day to day life that they lead back home that all they want to do is hang around the ship. On the floaties, you know, we’ll we’ll we’ll lower down, you know, a bucket of beer or tropical drinks. they’ll just be on the ship. A lot of our passengers, they have their own cabins. Yeah.

Jason (13:55.615)
Charles, hey Charles. Sorry to do this. Edit, edit, edit. Can you hear can you hear the rain?

Charles (14:02.511)
It’s raining, right? Very loud.

Jason (14:07.448)
Yeah, I think that the editing would take the background sound out, but I don’t want to risk it too much. I don’t want I don’t mind having it a short thing. So usually here it goes really fast. So that’s just kind of yeah, yeah, just

Charles (14:20.173)
Yeah, we’ll wait a couple of minutes. I’m I’m I’m chill about that. I mean, rain doesn’t ruin our party or our parade down on the ships either, so

Jason (14:30.392)
No, this this place that I’m staying at is actually really good for recording. But it does have kind of the tin roof. And it it hasn’t been raining much here today, but or but it’s coming down pretty good out there right now. Yeah. Uh-huh. It was rain Yeah, I love hearing the rain. I just don’t want to hear it on our too much of it on our record thing.

Charles (14:43.479)
As my luck would have it, but that’s all right. I like the tin roof.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

Jason (14:57.07)
I’m gonna I’m gonna when we get ready, I’m just gonna try and pick. I think we made a right decision. When we’re ready, I’ll just try and pick up kind of where we’re at and then I’ll edit it together in a way that makes sense.

Charles (15:04.792)
Okay.

Jason (15:15.628)
Talk about what I want to talk about.

Charles (15:18.617)
We’ll just roll with it.

Jason (15:20.558)
So how long what’s your dog’s name?

Charles (15:23.107)
Her name is Luna. She’s seven years old. She’s Italian greyhound. They call him Iggies. So Iggies. Iggy. I G G like Italian Greyhounds. Iggies.

Jason (15:33.006)
Did you think Beggie?

Charles (15:45.879)
I don’t know. I I think it’s a shorthand name and I don’t even want to get into it because you know what? They have this whole culture. Like, believe it or not, Jason, I’m attorney I’m attending my first birthday party for a dog. Another dog in Miami knows of Luna because she’s kind of famous, I guess, or f and so they’ve invited me and of course they say everyone w has to wear pink to the party and

I told my girlfriend, I said, Are you sure that I’m invited to this? you know, like you know, it just doesn’t sound like a

Jason (16:17.88)
Maybe I should maybe I should turn off the recording just so I don’t accidentally let it get through to the world.

Charles (16:26.261)
It’s just I mean I I mean I I don’t wanna be the only guy to arrive at a party with all these you know, all the women and their little dogs and their in their uniforms and I I don’t know. She says no, she’s certain that I’m invited, but so Yeah. Yes. We’ve been together seventeen years, but

Jason (16:38.936)
Are are you single? You s you said your girlfriend. You you mentioned your girlfriend, right? So okay. You must love her. Okay. Huh, interesting. does does Luna have like an Instagram account? Is she that is that that type of situation?

Charles (16:56.879)
I think she’s she like rules the the my girlfriend’s account itself. I think she’s like the most featured I don’t think she has her own. I I it’s a little bit too much for me, you know, all of that. so

Jason (17:16.002)
Sounds it’s gonna slow down before it completely slows down here and before we get started again. Your your girlfriend, is it cool if I mix her in somehow into the conversation or would you prefer just not discuss that at all?

Charles (17:30.497)
No, it’s fine. But may maybe not. I mean she’s kind of private. She’s she’s a th artist. She’s a three time world champion Argentine tango dancer, so probab probably not, just in case. So

Jason (17:41.199)
cool. pff all right. Okay. Fair enough. I so oftentimes it just kinda comes up in conversation and since now I know she’s there, I’d need to make a conscious decision not to or not there in the room, but you know, I mean I’ll need to make a conscious decision to not bring it up, so

Charles (17:59.213)
Yeah. No, I mean I just I d I didn’t ask her beforehand and she’s out teaching so I don’t wanna

Jason (18:05.238)
Is she I again I’m just curious, is she involved in the windjammer stuff?

Charles (18:09.999)
she basically is gets all excited about the merchandising for Sea Chest, which is our onboard ship and online ship, online store. And she wants to curate a lot of it and she’s got really good ideas for that. but, you know, she gives me her opinion and her ideas and, you know.

Jason (18:19.682)
Store. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Charles (18:31.519)
And where she does tango trips. So they’ve already they’re gonna charter one of the first cruises for tango in the Caribbean, you know. When the top deck is made of teak, so you can actually dance tango on the top deck.

Jason (18:47.362)
That sounds really interesting. when you it

Charles (18:49.281)
I had to I had to walk underneath the boom to make sure that tall guys could clear it, you know, otherwise it then it’s not much of a dance floor, but I I assured her that yes, we had head clearance of about that much, so and I’m six four, so if they can clear my head, there’s not too many people gonna bump their head on it.

Jason (19:03.726)
Yeah, okay. So you’re you’re good.

Yeah, and the ones that could are really aware of where their heads are. They’re pretty good at avoiding things.

Charles (19:15.191)
Yeah, if you’re taller than me you’re I mean, I already know the the duck around everything, so if you’re taller than me you you’ve your experience.

Jason (19:23.864)
Well, it’s what she’s doing sounds pretty interesting. If she if you think you know, if you mention what you’re doing and she’s like, I’d yeah, I’d love to go talk about tango trips, that actually sounds really cool. So anyway, it might be fun. All right, I think the rain has has dropped off and it’s it’s likely to stay quiet for a little while. So I’m gonna

Charles (19:32.653)
Yeah, we’ll we’ll do that.

Charles (19:42.767)
So we were talking about Caribbean centric and the Caribbean employees.

Jason (19:46.264)
Yeah, and then we got yeah, and I’m not

Okay, I think I know where to go. Alright, edit, edit, edit.

So Charles, I know like on I don’t know, but I imagine that on the really big ships, they’ve got, you know, different activities to choose from every day, probably a whole menu of activities and everybody, you know, maybe takes an hour getting off the boat. I don’t know. And then they go do their activities and they come back. So I’m curious a couple things. One is do your guests is this a lot of activities to choose from, which might even result in

Analysis paralysis, or is it just kind of a curated few activities? Do most of the guests do expect, you know, them to go as large groups? Is this like we have three tours, you pick one and and you might have thirty people on one and two on the other? Or what is what does that look like?

Charles (20:43.299)
Yes, more more like fewer tours, but good options. there are things in Winjammer that you do together.

Like you don’t miss the parties at night, you know. you don’t you don’t miss story time, which Windjammer invented. That’s where the captain sits down and tells stories and jokes and kind of initiates the day and talks about how things are gonna work and where we’re going or where we are, the history of the island, and it’s the good captain, the our captains have to learn to be very outward people. A lot of captains are shy. Ours can’t be. so that’s part of our tradition.

we don’t have a pool, so that means you dive off the side of the ship. That’s usually okay. and there are no televisions, no televisions on our ship. None. There is Wi-Fi. There is Wi-Fi because you know people can’t be cut off in emergency from their family or but we we don’t watch them watching television. It’s not

Jason (21:35.116)
Is there Wi Fi? Okay. And that

Jason (21:47.512)
Yeah, yeah, no I get that.

Charles (21:47.989)
doesn’t fit the culture. and there’s a lot of spontaneity. but we have a like a we have a night picnic on one of the one of the islands in the Grenadines where everybody gets off and the chefs and all the the kitchen crew and we transport to a local beach and we eat on the beach. Like a big bonfire.

In fact lot of the passengers kind of make their own i itinerary. Some will party to the late hours on the aft deck. that’s where the loud ones go, or where the party won’t won’t stop. and a lot of people will not want to stay, even though the cabins are are comfortable and cocoonish, they’ll actually take their bed sheets and they’ll go up and they will make beds on the top deck and they’ll sleep under the stars.

Jason (22:18.446)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (22:40.131)
in the Caribbean. I mean that’s that’s Windjammer culture.

Jason (22:44.044)
Yeah, that’s I appreciate you appreciate you sharing that. One of the things you mentioned though was about the parties and you said nobody misses the parties and then you said some people stick around the parties a little longer than others. d does that present a challenge for you guys as far as like where the rooms are and or do people that go on this thing they just kind of expect that it’s gonna be loud or is there enough are you able to move people around based on that?

Charles (23:09.039)
Yeah.

The the the aft deck kind of like isolates the sound back there. It doesn’t really affect people unless they’re light sleepers. most people are up for it. We won’t let them know if they’re on a deck that’s near some noise or in an area with this near some that it might you might want to take that in consideration if you’re early sleeper or you you you’re easily woke. But it’s a very kind of permissive culture. It’s a very easygoing. Everybody is just they

forget time, they forget obligations, they’re just like, you know, it it’s a different world. and it creates an emotive end. So in our tours we start with the the raising of the sales is done to amazing grace. That’s tradition. And the last sales going down to amazing grace. And I can tell you that

You get a lot of people that cry when that when those sales come down at the end of that tour. It’s a very emotional experience, Windjammer, and it gets deep into people.

Jason (24:13.71)
Tell me again when the boat the ship that your flagship ship I don’t know if you call it that, but is when was it built?

Charles (24:23.181)
Nineteen twenty three. It’s a hundred and three years old.

Jason (24:26.102)
twenty three. Okay. All right. You

Charles (24:29.539)
But it’s not wood, it’s a steel hull.

Jason (24:31.95)
Okay, all right. I can’t remember where I was going with that question. You know where I was honestly where I was going with that question? that’s I’m just gonna put it out there. you said Amaze and Grace. I know the a little bit about the history of Amaze and Grace and tied to, you know, the I guess the West African slave trade. And I also recognize that they used a lot of big sailing boats in that slave trade. I’m guessing there’s some sort of connection to that. and I’d love to just ask you about it.

Charles (24:53.711)
Yes.

Charles (25:00.407)
Amazing Grace was a r story of a redemption. it was of a captain that was you know, kind of full of himself and probably didn’t necessarily do the right things in life and he was beset in a storm and it looked very likely that he and all of the his shipmates were gonna die.

And he basically asks, you know, God i if he’s brought through to this, that he will change his ways. And so that’s what the that’s what amazing grace is about, yeah. Yeah.

Jason (25:39.597)
just sent shivers up my spine. I kinda knew the story a little bit, but just listening to you say it was yeah, so that’s that’s that’s pretty cool. Hmm. Hmm, interesting. Okay. On I know I remember what I wanted to ask when I s

Charles (25:44.803)
Yeah.

Jason (25:56.247)
Started thinking about Amazing Grace. Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And the question I had is in my mind, I imagine back in the day, I imagine this was all like young people that were single, and you’d go on a wind jam or barefoot cruise to to meet potential romantic partners. And I just that’s the story or the image I have in my head. I’d love to hear your perspective, perspective of what it was like and where you see that going now as you kind of revive.

Yeah.

Charles (26:27.417)
There’s a famous story in the nineteen sixties where the founder of the original Winjammer, Michael Burke Sr., had a group of missionaries, religious group, on board praying and you know, and and they got washed overboard, but they were recovered, they were okay. no, yes, there were a lot of singles. It was a l you know, it was a great time of life for people.

But windjammer is not a demographic, it’s what we call a psychographic. So it’s how you think. So if you think free spirit, if you think adventure, if you think you’re a pirate, you belong with us. If you think that’s why I’m on the I’m I’m definitely right up there. You know, if you think that service needs to be on a silver tray with a napkin folded over your arm and someone calling you sir or ma’am and

Jason (27:09.154)
Which is why you’re here on this show, the Adventure Travel Podcast.

Charles (27:22.797)
then you’re not potter by psychographic. I mean it’s not that we it’s not about service, but it’s just about the way that you’re served. our bartender, in this case Mashup, you know, you just say, Mashup, you know, give me my drink. He knows your drink, right down to the little umbrella, you know, he’s got a big smile and a joke. And that’s more of our culture. Now we have with us very frequently multimillionaires

And then we’ll have the mechanic that will s save up all year to take his wife on their annual windjammer cruise. And we want to keep it that way. So our pricing is in the dynamic of not making it unaffordable and to always reach out

to the middle class and people who have aspirations of this exact kind of vacation. I don’t want it to be a pu a luxury product in that sense. I it it doesn’t suit me and I well I’m saying me, but our company. And it we want people that can just all be together and and and enjoy each other’s company and make new friendships no matter what background they came from.

Jason (28:11.778)
Yeah.

Jason (28:32.152)
Very cool. A as I hear you discuss this and as I these things roll around my head, I’m imagining I’m imagining maybe those singles who met on one of these, you know, thirty, forty years ago or whatever, that met on one of them are probably gonna be super excited

Charles (28:51.331)
They’re super excited. a lot of them got many many of got married on the ship or met on the ship. But some of also met on the ship and are now divorced, you know, and so so we like to say that they can come they can come back and get a new girlfriend on the ship. They you know, if you made a mistake thirty years ago, it’s okay. But I I should basically speak to the women too. Get a new a boyfriend or husband out of that, you know. It’s not always the

Jason (28:55.832)
Uh-huh.

Jason (29:02.4)
N well they get to they get to bring their new girlfriend or whatever.

Jason (29:15.084)
Yeah. Exactly. Or or or bring the one if they’ve already got a new boyfriend or a new husband or or wife or whatever. They c they can be like, you know, I remember this thing I did thirty, forty years ago. It’s really romantic and a lot of fun. We should go and not they don’t have to tell them the whole story.

Charles (29:22.223)
Exactly. No, it’s

Charles (29:32.387)
We actually have we have people who were in their twenties when they were introduced to Windjammer and are writing to us now and saying, Look, we wanna bring our grandchildren and introduce them to what we experienced. So in the summertime actu that’s the time that we

Jason (29:46.377)
I’ve heard a

Charles (29:49.909)
open it up more to families and to children. Generally during the year it’s not children are not on board or not welcomed on board. but in the summer we have special programs and pirate themes and you can bring the whole family. you know, so there’s a chance to introduce the kids to that to that culture too.

Jason (30:10.822)
That comes up in a lot of the conversations you know with with guests I’ve had on the show where they’re maybe they’ve been in business long enough that now they’re starting to see that some of their first guests are coming back with their kids. You know, because they they want them to see that. And that’s pretty cool for people that have like a brand, Winjammer, you, your business, to be able to see that is pretty cool. that I I like that. So

Charles (30:24.471)
That’s right.

Jason (30:35.534)
All right, we’re gonna I know we’re gonna discuss more of this as it as it comes up in the conversation, but I’m also I just happen to know you have a pretty interesting story and things that have happened in your life that kind of help get you to the point you’re at now.

So let’s go back and and touch on some of those. And if you don’t mind, I’d like to go back pretty far. I you know, well I I shouldn’t say pretty far. That makes you sound older than maybe you are. But but let’s go back to, you know, Charles when he was young. what were you into? Where did you grow up? And what was it like growing up there for you?

Charles (31:00.625)
I’m old.

Charles (31:11.609)
So I was born on the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland, in a place called Chesapeake Beach. And there would all very often be skipjacks, which are the sailing vessels of the Chesapeake Bay, they would be out on the water, crabbing and fishing and and I was also

an avid reader as a kid of National Geographic. Avid reader. And in the back of National Geographic they had these little ads with a beautiful sailboat for windjammer barefoot cruises. And I said back then I was eight years old. That would be the dream of my lifetime. You know what Jason, I’ve spent my entire life chasing this dream. So eight years old.

Jason (31:58.023)
So we definitely had to go back to your childhood. We would have missed that whole damn thing. So

Charles (32:02.403)
That’s that’s going back. Yeah. So my family moved to Florida when I was eleven and I eventually sure.

Jason (32:10.178)
Well hold on hold on a sec, Charles, if you don’t mind. I think we I wanna learn I I’m curious about this, cause you mentioned specifically National Geographic.

That comes up a lot in these conversations. Nat Geo is there’s a bit of a common thread here. but for you to, you know, for me and a lot of the guests I’ve had on the show, it’s been more of just kind of a generic, like, you know, they take the maps out, put the maps on the wall. They they flip through the different Nat Geos, and and maybe it turns on turns them on to the idea of exploration. But you this is the first time I’ve heard something that specific about Nat Geo. That’s pretty cool. So my

My question is, how did you end up getting the Nat Geo’s? Why were there Nat Geo’s in your hands?

Charles (32:55.759)
so it was inexpensive for my mom to go to the bookstores and get National Geographic that was, you know, used that people had subscriptions and she would buy me whole stacks of them because I would read through them like crazy. I have a like a photographic memory, so I would consume information like at incredible levels. but it took me to different worlds, National Geographic did it you know, and they used

to write elongated stories. They’ve come up to the opinion now that we don’t have the patience or tolerance for a long story anymore. And I think that that’s in my opinion, that’s moving away from the essence of what made them great. And I don’t think that they’re great anymore. in fact I don’t find too much that’s you know that I can consume of the recent publications, but

Jason (33:49.866)
It’s it’s changed a bit. Yes. Yeah.

Charles (33:51.939)
More than a bit. So but but they were you know, they were formative a part of my life and I can’t I I must have read four or five hundred National Geographics cover to cover, so

Jason (34:03.64)
Wow. Did you pull the did you have any interest in the maps as well? I’m just curious. And pa

Charles (34:07.933)
I’m a I’m a map fool, you know, I like I’m I’m still all over the map and you know I hoping one day to come up with a treasure map, but you know, I actually know enough about pirates and and gold and so forth that there was never, ever in history a known treasure map. It’s all

Jason (34:11.874)
Guessing.

You know I spoke

Jason (34:29.102)
yeah. Well that yeah, I can’t it’s a fun story, I guess. Right, yeah, yeah. yeah, it’s part of why I asked about the maps. Actually, I just spoke with someone the other day that ran the map division for National Geographic for sixteen years or something like that. And I might have a little bit of the details wrong.

Charles (34:32.227)
Disappointing, but you know. Yeah, it is.

Jason (34:49.186)
He may be an upcoming guest on the show, but I was expl I was telling him, I was like, Do you know how important these maps are to people that are working in this business? And he’s like, Yeah, I’ve heard it a few times. So

Charles (35:00.739)
No, they’re imprinted in my head, you know, and it’s it’s why I can you know, I can move around in my mind from all those maps and can tell you about routes and cities and locations and I can design a you know, a new itinerary from the from my head because I know, you know, from all that I’ve read and what are the different you know and then I just prove it out by going and making sure that everything is, you know, lines up but yeah.

Jason (35:26.222)
Right. What you mentioned about when I asked you where did they come from, and you said, well, my mom was able to get them inexpensively, get the whole stack and and bring it home. So I don’t but I don’t want to make any assumptions. When you were that age, when you were young, did you have opportunities to go explore further away from your neighborhood? Did you have any opportunities to travel or was it all just kind of through the National Geographics?

Charles (35:51.383)
No, I was you know, I’m the product of a working class family. our excitement was to go to Ocean City during the summer, on the Atlantic Ocean. That was a big adventure. We went we went to Disney World one time in a camper that my dad built out of an old truck. I

Jason (36:09.964)
my gosh.

Charles (36:10.679)
It was fun for us kids, but it was a monstrosity and it broke down so many times. But no, I mean I and that’s part of that’s part of when I talk about making windjammer available. I don’t want people to be left out of this experience because it’s too expensive or it’s only for wealthy people. I don’t want that. I want for people who have this dream of this being an ultimate win

Jason (36:15.596)
I can relate to that. My childhood sounds very similar.

Charles (36:40.683)
to spend a vacation to be able to do it. And so I keep that in mind all the time. Maybe I do it subconsciously to cover my younger self, you know, that had I, you know, been able to do something like that. But

Jason (36:43.49)
Something that’s hopefully in reach, yeah.

Jason (36:54.126)
I get that. Did you but you were on you were on the coast. You mentioned, you know, obviously Chesapeake Bay. I ha I have fond memories of my childhood. We went to Chesapeake Bay and fished off the Del Mar, I think it was the Del Mar Bridge and went cra crabbing with a piece of chicken on a string. Some k yeah, th so that’s what I want to ask you, is like were you into that stuff, into fishing and and grabbing and stuff?

Charles (37:10.115)
Yep.

I can still catch a crab like that.

Charles (37:19.577)
We used to catch dozens of crabs and I to this day I can pick a crab like none other, you know. Yeah, I I I have a whole I I teach people actually. we were just at a crab house this past week and there was a a a y family, a young family that came in from South Africa and I th their first time experience in with a crab and I was telling them how they had to go through it and

Jason (37:25.794)
Yeah, that’s

Charles (37:44.771)
You know, the with the banger and so forth, the crabs splattering everywhere, it was a great adventure for them. They called it the Great Crab Adventure, but yeah.

Jason (37:47.378)
That’s pretty cool. Did you the way we did it, and I didn’t grow up on the coast, but the way the people at the campground told us to do it was just a like a chicken leg with a piece of string around it. You throw it out there and you wait ’til you something starts tugging and you s very slowly lead it in and then you

Charles (38:07.469)
You have to slowly bring it in and on the other hand you’re out at a distance and you gotta slowly come up. The thing about it, Jason, the big ones, the ones you really wanna catch, the ones that have eaten well all their life, they are smart. They don’t actually tug the line.

Jason (38:23.286)
That’s how they got that big.

Charles (38:24.675)
They will just sit there and eat it without tugging. They know if they tug the line, I don’t know, th they could get caught. Somehow they’re smart enough to just sit there and eat it while the line is limp and then you pull it up and your chicken’s gone. That’s the big crabs. It’s the ones that always get away and like that’s right, that’s how they that’s how they get so big.

Jason (38:30.446)
Yeah.

Jason (38:38.477)
Yeah.

Jason (38:44.568)
Very cool. Did you have siblings growing up? Okay. All right.

Charles (38:46.851)
Yes. I have two brothers and a sister. I’m the middle I’m the second second oldest.

Jason (38:52.43)
Were any of were you the only one in the house like going through all the nachos and and doing all that stuff, or was this a sh a little bit of a shared interest?

Charles (39:01.489)
my younger brother my younger brother had a lot of interest in the same field. he loved the story of American Indians. he was you know he’s to this day is very involved in wilderness. he still likes to be out in the wild. He’s spends most of his time out in the middle of the Everglades right now, so

Jason (39:21.758)
Okay, hey, when you saw when you started seeing Windjammer on these National Geographics, you told me you decided at eight, that’s my vision. That’s what I’m going after. Sometimes people decide on visions, but they kind of don’t think they deserve it. They just kind of keep it to themselves because they don’t want somebody to poo-poo their idea.

I’m curious, were you that type or were you the type that ate like, I’m gonna go do this. This is what I’m gonna do with my life. I’m just curious, what were you which one were you? What type?

Charles (39:53.239)
You know, I

I’ve been an entrepreneur since I was fifteen years old and I’ve learned that in order for me to succeed I have to give my permi myself permission to do things that I never thought were the things for me. You know, if I if I didn’t come from a family that was had a business background and I didn’t come from a family that went to country clubs or that mingled with people who would eventually be investors, I had to say, Look, you have the right

Jason (40:20.408)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (40:24.869)
to do this, you have the right to pursue this. Even though you think you might not, you think you might not be worthy, you know. y that’s a self-conquering thing and that’s how you, you know, eventually build up to going out there and and and making you know, making a business out of something that is as capital intensive as this business is.

Jason (40:50.2)
There’s a couple of things there. One is I heard you say you gave yourself permission. That’s re rewording it maybe, but you gave yourself permission and when you’re trying to get other people on board, obviously when you’re this is interesting actually.

Charles (40:54.126)
Yeah.

Jason (41:06.262)
So sometimes we’re trying to get people on board that are our family that aren’t necessarily gonna be donors or contributors, but just kind of that moral support. And then there’s getting other people on board when you’re looking for investors to go out and buy a ship like this. It’s you know, not a lot of people have all the money in their pocket ready to go. so I guess my question is, were you

Were you able to tell your mom when you were eight or when you were ten or twelve or whatever what you really wanted to do? Or was it something you kind of held internally for when you were young and then you started talking about it? I was just curious what that was like for you.

Charles (41:39.991)
My mother knew that I was hard headed and I was gonna do whatever it is that I’m gonna do and my father called me the wild one, you know, my father has passed but he always said that’s the wild one. but yeah, I did you know, I told what I was gonna do and oftentimes they s said that I should probably go and get a job and

You know, but it’s okay. I I you know, I know that the per from the perspective that they were coming from that they couldn’t envision this kind of thing and so that was okay. That was okay.

Jason (42:10.082)
Which

Which is an important part for me in having these conversations is because there may be somebody listening that, you know, maybe a young person that’s kinda like, Yeah, I wanna do this, and now they’ve got the opportunity. They hear people like you that are doing it. People that were told maybe the same things they’re being told by their parents. And I get it. I remember when I I a few times in my life when I said to my mom, Hey, I’m gonna do this. And are you sure? Don’t you think maybe you should just get a job? How are how are you gonna live being a fly fishing guy?

Charles (42:36.365)
Right.

Jason (42:40.704)
How are you, you know, the the and and now I’ve doubt her, hey mom, I’ve got a podcast. You know, I’m gonna be a podcaster. So that’s worse. She’s like, couldn’t you can’t you just go back to being a fishing guide?

Charles (42:41.911)
Exact.

Charles (42:52.131)
Right, exactly.

No, that that’s just how it rolls. You know, one of the things that I’m actually critical of, I’ve been many occasions I’ve been asked to speak in forums and many times there are forums where there are a large number of young people there. and the one thing that I hate is sort of entrepreneurs and business people and people asked to speak oftentimes edit their own personal story. And they’ll only go from highlight to highlight, from from com accomplishment to accomplishment to achievement. And they do

wrong because the young people listening to that say, Well that’s not how my life experience is so I guess I’m not the right one to do these things. I’m not the one to go for this because look at this guy, all he did was succeed and I’ve you know already failed at half the things that I do. Mind you, that guy has failed so many times, but he doesn’t want to say, I failed. I’ll tell you, I failed. I failed at many things. and Yeah.

Jason (43:33.751)
Right.

Jason (43:49.613)
Yeah, I’m so happy you were sharing this ’cause I agree with you a hundred percent. It’s and bec and the other yeah, it’s it’s kinda like, okay, so the first time you hit that spot where man, I got enough money to buy two packets of ramen noodles and and maybe a bottle of hot sauce, you start thinking, clearly my mom was right or my somebody was right that told me I should go get a job in accounting and all the s self-doubt comes in. But if you see somebody like

yourself that i is doing those things that people want to do and can admit that yeah I ate a lot of ramen noodles or whatever it is, you know, I mean hot dogs and ramen noodles and

Charles (44:26.855)
yeah.

I’ll go further. I mean I you know, I slept in my car several times during my entrepreneurial journeys. You know. I you know, I I there’s many things that I’ve done just to get to the next day on whatever I am what I I’m doing. but now I have also directed my own life my entire life. So that’s the other benefit is that you don’t get told necessarily what to do. you you decide what you were gonna do. So

Jason (44:33.73)
Yeah.

Jason (44:57.976)
Yeah, and that’s that’s super important. So on that note, what did you d you ’cause you mentioned it I don’t remember what age, but you mentioned that the family moved to Florida. How Okay, and what what big things happened there?

Charles (45:07.011)
When I was eleven we moved to Florida. and well

I mean the town we moved to was Fort Myers and back then only retirees so I had to make friends with the seventy and eighty year olds in my neighborhood because there were no kids. but you know I I I loved it. I love Florida, I love the you know, the tropical, I love the the un unusual that Florida represented. Didn’t want to leave, so I stayed here through college. and in my entrepreneurial kind of journey

I once saw an ad around the year 2001, 2000, 2001, of this super cool expeditionary tour company of Florida and the Caribbean called Dragonfly Expeditions. And they were looking for guides, and I’m like

Jason (45:57.71)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (46:01.379)
Well, I wasn’t necessarily interested in being a guide, but I was thinking about starting an eco tour company and I loved the way that they did this thing. So I reached out to the guy and as it turned out successively, I ended up buying in as a partner and then buying the company. so the company was ten years old when I bought it and I have been running it for twenty five years since. So the today the brand is thirty five years old and

And it has been, I mean, hiking, biking, kayaking. I walk waist deep in the Everglades, walking sticks with alligators. You know, I have taken people swimming with sharks in the Bim Bimni Islands. I’ve flown on seaplanes and I, you know, so many adventures, so many stories. I I say all the learning sciences. So history, culture, ecology, food, art, architecture, paleontology, you know, whatever it is, we’ve created

created these tours and I’ve got a chance to kind of write my own story each time and sell these tours and it never gets old. through that process I got to know people from

Jason (47:14.21)
Hold on, hold on, hold on. I I think I know what you’re gonna say. I have a couple questions before we go there. Cause we’ll never get back if we if we keep going, we’re never gonna get back. Okay. You said something, you kinda you didn’t I’m not gonna say you glossed over it, but I wanna make sure that I I heard it and I wanna touch on it. You said we moved to Florida, we’re fire Fort Myers, it’s mostly retired people, I had to make friends with a bunch of seven year olds. I

Charles (47:19.937)
Right.

Jason (47:39.747)
think in my head I know enough about human development and sales and just psychology to think that was probably a a big part of the story and I want to touch on that a little bit. So what did that do for you and at the time maybe it seemed boring, you know, there’s no kids around here, but what how did that impact where you are now?

Charles (47:49.645)
Absolutely.

Charles (48:00.015)
So I’m going down the street in my neighborhood and this old lady comes out of her house and she’s like, Boys, boys She’s trying to get my brother and I are on our bikes. My older brother kind of knew what was in store, so he just takes off.

But I’m a little bit more polite than him, you know, and I stopped and I’m like, Yes, ma’am, what you know. She said, I just need some help around here and I’ll pay you some dollars, you know, and her name was Mrs. R. T. Collins, and her husband had passed away and she had introduced two hundred varieties of tropical plants and palms to the state of Florida. She was a pioneer in tropical vegetation from around the world, and she was very southern.

And I worked like nonstop. I mean, just nonstop for her, you know, go go go do this and go to that and you know, pull fill this and I would be dirty and and she she would give me a couple dollars, five dollars, ten dollars, you know, and she say, I thank you till you’re better paid. And of course, not being from this part of the south, I didn’t know what the hell that meant. I’m like, you know, maybe she’s got a fortune, she’s gonna leave me, you know, but I mean I wasn’t thinking that way, but what kind of I was. But

Jason (49:01.684)
Yeah.

Jason (49:09.462)
Yeah, I would have interpreted it the same way at that age.

Charles (49:10.745)
So Mrs. Collins passed away, you know, and and when I bought my first house it was surrounded with all kinds of crazy tropical vegetation that was out of control. And I got out there like Edward scissor hands and I’m like you know, and I could fix anything, make it grow, make it look right, you know, tr prune it back, you know.

Jason (49:27.95)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (49:35.303)
And and all of a sudden it came back to me, I thank you ’til you’re better paid. I’m like, that’s what Mrs. Collins, you know Yeah, that’s what she did. She taught me how to work with plants and I’m to this day that talent was due to her.

Jason (49:52.36)
And I suspect there’s definitely the plants part, but I I don’t know, I’m a parent, so I remember when my kids were young,

Some people would say, don’t let your kids talk to strangers. You know, and encourage them to talk to strangers, meaning mostly older people. And that ability to approach and have a conversation with somebody that’s probably wiser than them, like if if you only let your 18-year-old kid talk to other 18-year-old kids, where do you think that’s gonna go? but if you but if you’ve got your you know, 12 year olds, 13 year olds are space.

I mean geez, you what you got out of that was the plant thing, but also just the ability to connect with people that later on might be investors, business partners, clients, all that stuff, right?

Charles (50:32.387)
Mrs. Collins, yeah. Mrs.

Charles (50:45.369)
For sure. I mean I I don’t really have a fear to talk I should have some fears, but I don’t have a fear of talking to anyone. and I I’m six foot four, so I mean that’s not a problem these days. But you know, yeah, I mean, I I’ve gotten myself into some of the problems I’ve gotten myself into in life are maybe from having a rapport with someone crazy, but that’s all right. I I have no regrets whatsoever and that gives me more storytelling power than anyone I know, so you know.

Jason (50:56.055)
Yeah.

Jason (51:13.827)
Yeah, yeah, very cool. What did you end up majoring you mentioned going to university, what did you end up majoring in?

Charles (51:20.131)
So I I actually had a double major, political science and business administration, and I had a double minor, which was linguistics and music. So I took a total of eight years of French, eight years of Spanish, so through school high school and college. And I speak both of those today, Spanish obviously because I’m in Miami, but I I can do pretty good in French too.

Jason (51:29.839)
Okay,

Jason (51:47.908)
Did you was it just purely out of like I just really like learning languages or was it more of a if I’m gonna own Windjammer someday, it might be helpful if I know some languages.

Charles (51:57.581)
Well, I I went to a private Catholic I went to a private Catholic high school, so that was about language. You’re you’re required to take another language in in that c environment. But I overdid it and I and I, you know, I wanted to. I wanted to be able to un unlock the world that other languages allow, you know, into spaces and you know, so it’s like these days

You know, because I sp spoke so much French, I became friends with in college with a a community of Haitian kids. And I can speak some pretty good Crayole, which, you know, makes people wide eyed when they hear me trying to speak you when we hear me speaking in Crayole or using Crayole language. So but yeah, I I’m never so I’ve never been sorry for the language part. And music is just a passion. I played saxophone in college and so

Jason (52:37.081)
That’s impressive.

Jason (52:51.031)
Very cool.

You know, I guess I here’s how I’m gonna ask this question. You mentioned, okay, eight years old, up, yep, wind jammer, that’s my thing. And sometimes that happens. Sometimes like somebody kind of implants an idea, and then they kind of go off course and they go do something else, and they kind of forget about the idea. But then when they see the opportunity, maybe you could say they manifested it, whatever, but when they see the opportunity, then they’re like, I remember when I was eight, I was really intrigued by this. So that’s one path that some people take, and then others just have

have like the same vision the whole time and they every step they take, is this gonna get me closer to my vision? So my question is, when you were taking business classes in university, were you still thinking windjammer or did that w how did that work?

Charles (53:37.397)
always thought windjammer it comes in it came and went, you know, it was certainly not possible in my early years. I mean it’s it it seems impossible even at my current age, you know, like I’m I you know I’m I own ships and you know and taking people in the Caribbean. so the yeah i i it came and went but it was always there. It was sort of like the epitome.

Jason (53:41.487)
Okay.

Jason (53:53.251)
Yeah.

Charles (54:04.715)
of what I thought life should be like. To explore I’ve always been fascinated with the Caribbean, with the tropics sp specifically, but with the Caribbean. and to me it’s the penultimate thing to, you know, to be able to do. so

Jason (54:12.068)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (54:20.58)
Well, when you’re moving towards when you’ve got a target, it tends to get you closer to your target. And because what I hear you say is like with with with Dragonfly, you know, that’s in the direction of Windjammer. You’re going the right direction. Even and even if Windjammer never came up and it wasn’t an opportunity, there’s a lot of similarities.

Charles (54:37.38)
Yes.

Charles (54:45.539)
Well, one of my failures, which was it was kind of a failure of of just not being able to pull off the whole scheme, but I wanted you know, the megalomaniac in me wanted to be the the king of tours of the Caribbean region by land, sea and air.

Jason (55:05.231)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (55:06.23)
So by land it’s Dragonfly, by sea it’s windjammer. I actually made a run on an old airline here called Chalks Ocean Airways, which flew in Drummond seaplanes. And

that business required because the seaplanes were so old they weren’t safe and so it was a double whammy where I had to manufacture a new set of Grumman seaplanes to FAA’s requirements, which I started the process of and then deploy them in a you know in a fleet of airlines of my own landing in islands. so I didn’t get that far. It didn’t happen the way I came close, but it didn’t it didn’t happen. No.

Jason (55:44.046)
And then and then hope that and then hope that it’s profitable. Do do you envision some point in the future where you at least have a float plane? Just maybe just one float plane? J

Charles (55:56.995)
well there’s a new company in Maine that’s fascinating me called Mallard Seaplanes. If they’re still operating, I’m gonna buy one of their seaplanes eventually. they’re they’re they’re doing what I was gonna do, and I think their seaplanes are marketed somewhere around five million dollars. To me that’s a seaplane, a flying boat, can land anywhere. You don’t need an airstrip. You can land in a in any kind of remote island and you take off in the same. You can also take off on land and land and land.

take off on one, land in another. It’s the most kind of universal way of traveling. And as the world gets, you know, more kind of traveled and known, the unknown places that are still unexplored that people want to see are not easily obtainable unless you have something like a flying boat, a seaplane. So I see the time for it. But I don’t think I’ll create an airline around it. I just I will have one for my own edification. Yeah.

Jason (56:47.916)
I absolutely I’ve I’ve Well that that’s what I’m saying. Maybe just a plane. Probably a little I don’t know, prof more profitable or not, but just at least not as risky risky.

Charles (57:01.229)
They say in the airline business, if you want to become a millionaire, you have to start off as a billionaire. Yeah. Yeah, that’s pretty true. Yeah.

Jason (57:04.94)
Start with two. Yeah, or a bill, yeah. That sounds sounds about right. And but it is a cool it is a cool thing. I’ve done the float plate thing in Bahamas. I flew from Nassau out to one of the islands on a float plate. Yeah, it’s pretty cool and then did it in Brazil, you know, flying into the Amazon, landing on one of these little rivers and like it would have been a hell of a lot of work to get there any other way. So

Charles (57:22.82)
Yeah.

Charles (57:26.275)
So there’s a difference between a float plane and a and a seaplane. the the flying boat is the the base of it is a boat. And so the difference is is that a seaplane can go further and can land in rougher seas.

Jason (57:30.96)
Okay, I guess I’m talking about flow planes. Mm-hmm.

Charles (57:41.751)
Like a a a float plane can break its legs. It’s got these little skinny legs and it can break off. Whereas a seaplane can come in plowing, you know. so it can it can hit some pretty tough seas. And it it it ha it carries a a larger payload of fuel because the way it’s designed, and it can be a heavier plane and so you can go further distances with them. But yeah, but it’s still it’s still the same romance. You fly low, you get into remote places, it’s it’s has the same kind of calling.

Jason (57:43.216)
yeah. Yep.

Jason (58:03.824)
Okay, that makes sense.

Jason (58:11.854)
Wasn’t there like the was it the spruce goose was like the big seaplane that was so Yeah, right, I think yeah, yeah, absolutely so. All right, let’s get back to you because you while you were already involved with Dragonfly

Charles (58:15.075)
Yeah, that was the biggest, but that was a big monstrous wooden boat, yeah, yeah. Howard Hughes. That was Howard Hughes. Mhm.

Jason (58:32.272)
And I know that you went on and had some really other interesting adventures and I think you were just starting to touch on that. You ran into somebody or somehow connected with somebody that added a whole nother layer of interesting stuff to kind of your project list. So tell me more about that.

Charles (58:48.163)
Well, what I who I ran into or who I met in the process was the beloved singer songwriter Jimmy Buffett. And we created the first tourism kind of brand in Margaritaville. We called it originally Margaritaville Travel Adventures and then Margaritaville Adventures.

Jason (58:55.471)
Yeah.

Charles (59:08.363)
and we followed the the s the script and the name of Jimmy’s songs by permission, you know, with licensing. And we created these movable journeys, that f that traveled in places that Jimmy sang about and wrote about. And it was just probably the most wonderful, fantastic period of my life, you know it up until now. it was so much fun, I swear. I I it was just like

Jason (59:15.066)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (59:38.189)
you talk about a pure fun script. Now some of some of the employees of my company said, yeah, well, you get to frolic around and tell stories, you know, we have to do all the back work and the, you know, reservations. I’m like, Yeah, well, you know someone’s gotta do it, you know. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be me. but yeah, that was wonderful. It was a very wonderful period, and I got a chance to meet Jimmy and his business partners and

Jason (59:47.728)
Aren’t you happy you have a job? Somebody’s gotta do it. It could could could be worse.

Jason (01:00:04.388)
Let me

Charles (01:00:04.397)
Just really great people, very very imaginative and very capable people, yeah.

Jason (01:00:14.212)
Because we have such a broad audience of people listening from all around the world.

and ages and all that stuff. Like you say Jimmy Buffett to me, I’m like, yeah, okay, yep, I get that. Margaretaville, yep, I get that. and I don’t wanna spend a lot of time talking about who Jimmy Buffett is, but I’m just gonna for anybody that’s wondering, you know, he was a singer. He wrote some some great songs and and you correct me ’cause you know him but I don’t really know him. I I did, I told you the first time we met that

One experience with Jimmy, I was working in a fly shop in Montana. And this guy walked in and he asked for the owner by name. He’s, you know, hey, is George around? And I’m like, well, yeah, I think he’s in the back office. And this guy looks at me and says, Well, tell him Jimmy Buffett’s out here. And I just kind of grinned at him, like, yeah, buddy, whatever. Ha ha ha, that’s funny. I don’t know. I knew the name, but I’d never I would never never would have recognized him. So I go in the back to George, like, hey, George, there’s some jackass out front that says he’s Jimmy Buffett. And George stands up, looks out, and says,

yeah yeah yeah tell them I’ll be there in a minute. I I just gotta finish this call. So then I was like, because j

Charles (01:01:21.347)
Yeah, he was

He was a very imma he was he wrote songs I think what made him famous he wrote songs that you knew by heart, that you could sing. His songs were always equated with being out on the water, being on vacation, being in the Florida Keys, being on a boat. so it was almost like whenever you thought of your vac vacation mode of life, whenever you thought about, you know, escaping, it was Jimmy’s lyrics that were the backdrop. And that’s part of what he cast

Jason (01:01:30.628)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (01:01:53.025)
captured so well. He was also a very, very, very good writer. he wrote a number of books that were j are just like they were New York Times bestsellers and to this day they’re some of the best books that I’ve ever read and believe me I’ve read a couple of thousand books, so that’s saying something. Yeah.

Jason (01:02:08.785)
Okay. wow, that’s good endorsement. Now I’m gonna ask a question that I kind of feel like I should know the answer to, but I don’t, so I’m not afraid to admit it. Cause I know the songs were kind of about places that but is Margarita Ville before he wrote that song and sang that song, I don’t know if he wrote it, I’m assuming he did.

was there actually a place called Margaritaville or is this a more of a conceptual thing that was created because of the song, right? Okay. I thought that was the case, but

Charles (01:02:34.871)
Yeah. It’s a it’s a it’s a made up place. It’s a made up place with a tropical drink and you know.

Well yeah, it’s definitely from his it’s from his imagination. His first song was actually called Come Monday. the first kind of popular song. But yeah, Margaritaville was a place that he conjured up. obviously he loved the concoction of a margarita and you know, and so this was where margaritas were served from morning to day l to to you know, nighttime and it was always a hammock and

Jason (01:03:10.405)
Yeah. And it and then it in my mind anyway basically became a brand. Like I I know I’ve seen like margaritas makers probab maybe at Walmart that say Margaritaville on them, you know, through branding and licensing agreements and all that stuff. You kind of touched on that already.

Charles (01:03:16.283)
Yeah.

Jason (01:03:30.331)
think probably even restaurants and bars. I don’t know. So give us just a quick idea what what is if I say what is Margaritaville other than a song by Jimmy Buffett, how would you describe what Margaritaville is now?

Charles (01:03:42.381)
So it’s mainly a brand, and there are a lot of independent company owned individual companies that license the brand and they produce products on the spec. my dog is coming to life. Let me set her down. they produce products on the spec of the company, and they’re approved. So there are Margaritaville Foods, Margaritaville liquors, there are

Jason (01:03:56.977)
Yeah.

Charles (01:04:09.603)
mean p s restaurants, bars, hotels, now cruise ships, they have a couple of of kind of mid sized cruise ships. so yeah, they they but their their coalition are made up of independent companies that have that meet the standards that the brand insists on. And and they market this this escapism idea.

Jason (01:04:28.593)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (01:04:33.681)
Yeah, I c I I love that. And it sounds like correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you labeled some of your tours as a Margaritaville tour for for Dragonfly. Okay.

Charles (01:04:42.895)
Yeah, our first one was the Lost Shaker of Salt Tour, yeah.

We never found that we never found that shaker of salt, but we looked for it very diligently.

Jason (01:04:54.001)
That’s that’s really it’s really cool. are you still doing anything Margarita Ville branded or is that that was just okay.

Charles (01:05:02.189)
No, no, there was another company that came in and kind of give us the boot, so a company much bigger than us, yeah. Yeah, no I didn’t eat too many ramen noodles. Thank God I kept my other companies going at during that time, so

Jason (01:05:08.911)
So you went back to eat so you went back to eating ramen noodles for a while. Things don’t always work though. I’m just just making a joke. It’s because things change, right? You know, that’s that’s part of life and business. Yeah.

Charles (01:05:22.765)
Yeah, well I’d be willing to eat ramen noodles or whatever, you know. I c I can do it.

Jason (01:05:28.881)
Very cool. Alright, so I don’t want to skip over anything big, but I want to figure out, okay, how do we get from some other company came in, we’re no longer doing Margaritaville stuff with Dragonfly. I’ve decided not to buy an airline. But look at this windjammer thing that’s presented itself. So give us kind of an idea how the heck that happened and what you’d like to share with us about that.

Charles (01:05:48.153)
So

Charles (01:05:51.695)
The founder of the company, it the company held sway most of his life. When he got older and really couldn’t manage affairs, his adult children took over. there was a lot of infighting, as you often have in the second generation of a family company.

And that infighting took the concentration of the family members off of the brand and its delivery and its dream and splintered it into a million pieces and the company started making mistakes and not oversee you know, just things started falling apart. and at that time I it was in the headlines very frequently in Miami and I was even talking to them about buying the brand before I thought the inevitable.

but I was outvoted within the family. Some of wanted to sell and some of them did not. And so they held on to the company and eventually it closed its doors in nineteen eighty-seven. I’m sorry, nineteen eighty two thousand and seven or eight.

Jason (01:06:52.005)
You mentioned

Jason (01:06:56.177)
Okay. And you mentioned i it was in the press that maybe that it was for sale or whatever and that’s I but they were having troubles.

Charles (01:07:03.383)
No, not that was for sale, but they were having troubles. That was good. And to me that’s indicated like, well, maybe if I can put together the capital structure I can come in and I can re envision the company before it closes its doors. But it wasn’t to be.

Jason (01:07:18.831)
Sometimes yeah, sometimes companies get into struggles and they go out of business but but it’s just kinda like, okay, they went out of business and then other

Charles (01:07:27.021)
Yeah. Well they did not go bankrupt. They did just close the door. So that was one good thing. That you know, there was a there were some people left holding the bag and there were some clients and there were some very disappointed people and you know, and the ships eventually scattered to all the winds.

So the only ones that are left now are the Mandalay, which we now own a hundred percent, and have already started the full restoration and have made a lot of progress. and the Polynesia, which is a four masted schooner that’s sitting in Portugal, and we are in talks with them trying to acquire it. It’s but it’s considered a national treasure by the Portuguese government. They wanted to try to keep it within the realm of the country, but it doesn’t look like there’s the either

Jason (01:08:03.876)
Okay, so it

Charles (01:08:14.081)
either the appetite or the wherewithal to see it properly restored. Well that’s still an unknown story how it ends, but if we can get it we will and we will restore it. And that will be two of the remaining five ships that Winjammer had when she closed.

Jason (01:08:30.091)
Is i have you experienced or do you foresee PR issues around whatever press and happened in the past? Is it like we’re really gonna have to, you know, pull our boots up and really dig in to to address some of the PR issues or do is that

Charles (01:08:46.583)
No, not at all. I mean the Windjammer clientele are very forgiving, first of all. And it has been t almost twenty years. I think that I mean obviously customers that are still

mad about this, you know, they may choose not to come to us, but we have no relationship to that earlier entity except for a continuation of the culture and and running the ships. But I’m not worried about it. I I really am not I we have thousands and thousands and thousands of ex customers that are waiting for the return of this experience.

Jason (01:09:24.975)
Let’s let’s touch on that because I don’t know how important it is to our listeners, but maybe it’s important that just to be clear, you did not buy windjammer barefoot cruises. You just bought a ship that they used to use and you’re it

Charles (01:09:39.735)
Well, I I yes, I bought their Queen ship that was left over. I’m aspiring to get their other ship if I can get it. What I am committed to is carrying on the culture.

Jason (01:09:54.095)
Yeah, that’s what I wanted to be clear on.

Charles (01:09:54.625)
And I studied for years and I’ve I have interviewed everyone. I mean everyone is including family members and top executives and people, you know, and so I am hiring as my senior staff, my captain, my chief exec my chief chef, executive chef, my chief bartender are all from the previous brand with decades of experience. So they know the culture and how to, you know, revive that culture on board and teach the

Jason (01:10:20.517)
Mm-hmm.

Charles (01:10:24.529)
ones how to do it. so we we hew I mean obviously we let go things that don’t make sense for the modern era, but there’s not too many things that don’t make sense. They had the culture honed down and so we’re committed to the ships.

We’re committed to the territory of the Caribbean, we’re committed to the Caribbean staff, we’re committed to the name, we’re committed to, you know, the maritime heritage. And we see ourselves as the successors to the brand and that’s anyone can counter that and say, Well, you’re not but th that’s up to them, you know.

Jason (01:11:03.919)
Yeah, yeah, okay. Well I I appreciate you going into that. there was something you said.

But I was so excited about listening to what else you were gonna say that I forgot about what what you said that triggered a question. so yeah, I get that. That’s now I was gonna ask you about if the government of Portugal said, you know what, you guys we’re gonna make you a screaming deal to start up a a cruise ship company in Portugal using this boat, is that something you’d want them to reach out and discuss with you or is it just no way?

Charles (01:11:36.295)
no, what we will do so what we what we said we would do is that we would fully restore the ship and make sure she was built in nineteen thirty nine. She’s part of what they call the Great White Fleet of cod fishing ships that are considered part of the maritime history of Portugal. There are four of those ships left.

One of them is the national flag carrier for Portugal that goes when the big ships like the celebration of the 250th anniversary, they send the ship over. one of them is operating as a training vessel and as like a it it you know it takes people on it. one of them is owned by the city of Philadelphia. And this last one is rotting at the docks in Portugal. It’s owned by a private company.

Jason (01:11:59.269)
Uh-huh. Yeah.

Jason (01:12:12.145)
Okay.

Charles (01:12:19.265)
So what we would need them to do is say, you know, we’ll let it go. And then our honoring of that ship would be to have an onboard, small but onboard comprehensive museum about the Portuguese cod fishing industry and the history of the ship as it fit into that. And to have it mirror the the the standards of the Portuguese national museums. So so we’re buying it if we buy it or

Jason (01:12:39.345)
Okay.

Charles (01:12:49.189)
acquire it from a private company, but they are a very proud Portuguese company and they are a s a cod fishing company. They’re one of the largest of the cod fishing. So they’re very steeped in tradition. And I told them that we would honor that tradition if they let us have this ship. And then we’ll make sure that this ship is not in Davy Jones locker at the end of the day. And that’s a very real possibility. Ships are machines. They have to be worked. If you don’t work them they don’t stay.

Jason (01:13:12.209)
Yeah, yeah.

Charles (01:13:19.109)
d they don’t maintain. ships are like planes or any kind any kind of big machine needs to be worked.

Jason (01:13:25.775)
Yeah. I’m gonna ask you the question that somebody that clearly knows nothing about international shipping or registrations and all that stuff but might be thinking it, ’cause I’m thinking it. Can you just say the Portuguese government we’re gonna keep it registered and fl flagged Portuguese flagged ship and use it in the Caribbean? Because I see boats that are flagged in all kinds of weird places that are operating in other places.

Charles (01:13:42.829)
Yeah, if Yeah, if they allow us if they allow if they allow us to carry their flag or they insist that that’s something that they want, I I don’t think that you know, they have European standards for the ship ma maintenance and safety that would be something that we would negotiate. But we we only operate in the Caribbean, so they will know that it’s their brand, but it’s it’s down here, you know.

Jason (01:14:03.045)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well I just thinking maybe they’d be like, we’ve got a Portuguese flag on the back of it or it might be a I don’t know, whatever.

Charles (01:14:11.319)
Yeah, you know, I mean w yeah, that’s something we’re willing to do. I mean, we’ve talked to several other brands and we’ll be flying some European flags at least for a number of years on some of the ships that we’re looking to acquire right now.

Jason (01:14:25.041)
Alright, I just trying to learn a little bit about the b how that flagging thing works, but so what’s I don’t know if I wanna add what’s been the biggest surprise from the moment you

Kind of like, okay, here’s the the ship, we’re gonna move forward. I’m just curious what like were there any like really big surprises or advice that you give to somebody else listening to this that’s tr that’s gonna do obviously not a windjammer thing, but something you know, equally ambitious?

Charles (01:14:55.929)
You know, I don’t know about advice, but one of the craziest stories that occurred was that the mandala had been abandoned outside of the Carinage, which is the the circular port entry of the traditional Saint George’s Grenada.

She was anchored offshore and there were a couple of staff members who were abandoned and who were watching the ship to make sure it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t pillaged or whatever. But it was rotting out there and the owners had disappeared and the port authority had claimed the ship, you know, for back payments that were owed to the port.

Jason (01:15:25.254)
Right.

Charles (01:15:37.235)
And she was at anchor and I was trying to buy her and they were holding off for bids and the two crew that were on there, three two or three, were off on shore getting supplies, and she broke anchor on her own. And she started to sail towards the largest tourist attraction in Grenada, which was the Blue Reef.

And it it’s the number one producer of the tourism economy there and she would have plowed that reef up. And they saw her making the her way, you know, a a ghost ship now towards their number one tourist attraction and they sent out th their coast guard or their their and one of the guys happened to used to be a windjammer employee and wrangled it like a horse and stopped her journey.

Jason (01:16:27.729)
Uh-huh.

Charles (01:16:30.467)
But they were very upset and they considered it emergency now that this ship was posing this kind of a hazard. And so there’s there’s something called a private treaty that the islands have left over from British law that in an emergency situation they can sell to a bidder who is not is not a competitive bid. It can be an individual bidder and guess who that bidder was.

Jason (01:16:55.409)
I had a feeling. As yeah, as soon as the ship is at risk of taking out the blue reef, it’s like we probably need to find somebody with good insurance. Yeah. Do you know a conspiracy theorist could come up with some interesting stories about how that thing unfolded, but we won’t go there. Congrat

Charles (01:17:03.853)
Yeah, so me and me and the mandalay, we had a little pact, we worked together on it and it just worked out great. She was meant to be ours.

Charles (01:17:20.163)
Yeah, and I’ll let the story live on its own.

Jason (01:17:24.261)
Cong congratulations. You know, I don’t know why, but for some reason I wanted to ask you about this because you mentioned that there were these two crew member that were crew members that were staying on board and it it gave me kind of a a flashback to when I was working in Belize. We were on in a small island thirty miles offshore. We always had a staff person on

least watching the boats or just on the beach. We always had somebody awake. And the guests would quite often ask us, they’re like, I I was up at two in the morning and went outside on the patio to smoke a cigarette or whatever. And they’re like, there was this guy walking up and down the beach with a with a machete. What’s that all about? And our canned response was, well, there’s pirates out here. So we’ve got to have somebody, you know, out on the beach at night because there’s pirates.

Charles (01:18:09.747)
yeah.

Jason (01:18:14.942)
they would never believe us. And you know, like, yeah, ha ha, whatever, that’s funny, and they would usually just stop the conversation. But we referred to people that would come by late at night and steal boat motors or boats as as as pirates.

Charles (01:18:27.656)
they’ll steal anything. Yeah, so so in the region where the mandalay sits today, right now, there’s a considerable amount of offshore piracy.

And they’re not they’re they’re pretty rough dudes. and so our executive chef is one of the people who s watches the ship for us to this day. And his name is Boston Brown. And and then Mashup, who is our chief bartender, is also there, he’s a side kick. They they have been protecting this ship all along and they have physically had to fight off pirates several times.

Jason (01:18:52.402)
Love it.

Jason (01:19:06.694)
Yeah, it’s it’s a thing. We kind of I don’t know, maybe it sounded like I was kinda joking about, but because people envision pirates like we were talking a little bit about earlier, you know, pirate ships, pirate maps and stuff like that. But it is an issue. And it’s not just the Caribbean, it’s not just water, it’s I mean

Charles (01:19:22.723)
No, I I had a I had a piracy incident on the north branch of the Amazon River for a client of mine that we were they were going on a an Amazon expedition on a private yacht and I insisted that they have protection and and they didn’t think it was necessary, but I had to hire Brazilian air force machine gunners and they were on board and had they not been on board that ship would have been seized and probably the people killed on it

but they they did have an attack in the middle of the night and guys in these little rubber pontoon boats attacking the ship and the machine gunners saved the day or night. So

Jason (01:20:04.934)
You’re I’m not guessing you’re gonna mount machine guns on the front of your boats your ships. The th you got the cannon.

Charles (01:20:09.975)
Our cannons actually our cannons should keep people at bay. We we go for a little bit of antiquity, machine guns are too, you know.

Jason (01:20:16.838)
But ha how fast can you reload it though? That’s the question. Cause the first one they’re just gonna get their attention. You you gotta follow up with us at least a second shot. But it’s but we you know, we’re talking about piracy, but then we also kinda like, okay, it be so piracy really means

Charles (01:20:20.504)
Charles (01:20:24.141)
Yeah, I I think it’s pretty f I think it’s pretty fast in reloading, yeah. You have to kind of jam it and

Jason (01:20:36.698)
water based, is that right? W like ’cause we can call a pirate if it involves water, but if they’re if it’s somebody on land and they steal your car, we don’t call it piracy. But it’s basically the same thing, right?

Charles (01:20:47.555)
No, so so piracy generally refers to somebody who targets ships. So it they can be land based or they can be sea based, but if they’re targeting your ship or your shipping operation, then that’s considered piracy. It’s like in Somalia, when they attack ships in Somalia the pirates are based on the land and then they they see a ship on the horizon and they go out to get it.

Jason (01:21:04.27)
Okay, cool. Yeah.

Jason (01:21:12.464)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s all right. So w the listen people listening to this, when you go on the wind j with the windjammer way, probably don’t need to worry too much about pirates. Right? are there maybe the maybe those kind of pirates might be fun at a party. But alright. Charles we’ve

Charles (01:21:24.899)
Hopefully not. Except for except for our native variety. So yeah. They’re usually harmless.

Charles (01:21:34.371)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jason (01:21:38.973)
We’ve discussed a bunch of things. I know this about you that we could probably do four, five, six more episodes and have new stories each time. But I want to be respectful of your time. I appreciate you coming to share these stories. But I also want to ask you, what did I forget to ask you or what do you wish I would have asked you? What else do we need to not need to, but what else would you like to touch on for our listeners before we wrap up?

Charles (01:22:03.159)
I think that we we’ve covered most of the basis of, you know,

I would like to invite people to to revive, you know, there’s something in a traveler that when they touch their childhood ideas, a more innocent, a more expansive view of what could be possible in the world that opens up, you know, new horizons. And I would like all of you to get in touch with your inner child and come out and join us on these cruises and see

See if this is the right thing for you. For some it might not be, but we’re pretty sure that for many of you it will be and that you’ll wanna do it over and over again. And it it’s

I’m looking forward to this as the highlight of my life, you know, these trips and what we’re doing and what we’re gonna be throwing out there. And so I’m excited and I’m hoping to invite as many people as possible into into the world that we’re creating.

Jason (01:23:08.722)
It’s very, very cool. And I suspect that the listeners of this show at least are probably exactly the type of people that would enjoy that. And yeah, yeah.

Charles (01:23:17.557)
Absolutely, Jason. I mean when I saw when I saw you know when I learned about your your show, I I’m like, well there couldn’t be a better group of people to, you know, to talk about this. I think I reached out to you and I said, you know, you just have the the audience that would appreciate this kind of travel because I know that, you know, I I’ve looked at your your other travelers and your other guests and they have so many fascinating things that they do and you know

Jason (01:23:32.732)
Uh-huh.

Charles (01:23:47.461)
all points of the globe. and so I I knew this was it was what they call preaching to the choir. So

Jason (01:23:54.833)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And for for the listeners that are listening to this, ’cause I know some of you are gonna reach out to Charles or through his team

Please mention, say, hey, I you know, I saw you, heard you on on Jason’s podcast, and then hopefully Charles will circle back around and say, Hey Jason, we just had a family that came out and had a great week with us because they heard us on the you know, there’s no kickbacks or nothing like that. I just it just makes me feel good because I want people to go do stuff, and this is the type of thing that I would want to go do. And so thank you so much for for coming here and having that this conversation. and you know what else? Somebody listening to this

At some point during this conversation, they had a memory of a National Geographic magazine and a Windjammer ad on the back page. Somebody has it on their bookshelf. Somebody has older National Geographic magazines on their bookshelf. They’re like, yeah, I’ve seen those ads. Somebody might even be holding one in their hand right now. So Ugh

Charles (01:24:55.449)
I don’t think I’ve seen one in fifty years, which is partly giving up my age, so I would love to you know, to see one again, even if you just show me a picture of it, take a picture of it and show it again.

Jason (01:25:07.666)
That that would be that would be super cool. I’d love that too. So all right, cool. Thank you so much, Charles. We’re gonna have obviously a link right to your website in the show notes. So a little bit more information just for h people to help them connect with you.

Charles (01:25:17.901)
Yeah. Well our cruises, the ships are all basically right now under repair and so forth and and preparation. So the new cruises will start in twenty twenty seven. The new new schedules.

Jason (01:25:27.206)
Okay. I’m happy you mentioned that because being a podcast, somebody could be listening to this three years from now and think, I wonder when they’re gonna launch.

Charles (01:25:36.099)
Yeah, no, no, no. No. It’s their their ships will be sailing in this upcoming year and you know, we’re we’re we’re plowing a lot of money to make sure the restorations are top notch.

Jason (01:25:47.442)
Very, very cool. I look forward to to joining you someday. It’s it’s sounds really, really, really cool.

Charles (01:25:51.591)
that’s that’s definitely you’re actually gonna be joining us and maybe even doing some live you know Yeah, I I think so.

Jason (01:25:57.052)
Wouldn’t that be cool? You know what we c we could do? We could set up a little studio right there on the aft deck and during the party and we can we can have conversations with your guests and your crew and and all that stuff and sounds good.

Charles (01:26:04.385)
I’m I’m planning on it. I’m I’m planning on it.

You you just get down island and you know, and you’re you’re on the ship and you know, you’ll give you a cabin and bring somebody along and we’ll we’ll make it a great adventure.

Jason (01:26:20.656)
I’ll work on I’ll work on finding a companion. Thanks, Charles. You have a great day. I’ll talk to you later. All right. Bye.

Charles (01:26:23.125)
All right. All right, thank you, Jason. All right, bye bye.

 

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