Guest Bio
Chris Torres is the founder of The Marketing Coach, specializing in helping tourism businesses thrive through real-world marketing strategies. Starting at the age of 16, Chris’s career journey began in the creative field, illustrating children’s books before moving into design, web development, and eventually marketing strategy. In 2008, he founded his own marketing agency, which quickly became a global force working with travel brands across over 50 countries. Today, Chris helps businesses refine their messaging, grow their customer base, and achieve sustainable growth with data-driven strategies. Known for his no-nonsense approach, Chris emphasizes personal connections, storytelling, and marketing strategies that deliver real results.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, Jason Elkins speaks with Chris Torres, a seasoned marketing coach in the tourism industry. Chris shares his journey from a creative background to becoming a marketing strategist for some of the biggest names in travel. The conversation delves into the importance of direct bookings for tour operators, how storytelling and video content enhance customer engagement, and the power of social proof through reviews. Chris discusses the future of marketing with AI and the value of community support for operators looking to succeed in the tourism industry. He also introduces his Strategy Builder tool, designed to help operators create effective, actionable marketing strategies.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Direct bookings are crucial for tour operators to maintain control over their revenue and customer relationships.
- ✓ Marketing often starts from a creative background, where storytelling is key to engaging customers.
- ✓ Focusing on a niche can lead to greater success in the tourism industry by creating tailored experiences.
- ✓ Delegating tasks and focusing on what you love is essential for long-term business success.
- ✓ Understanding the specific needs of tour operators is critical for delivering effective marketing strategies.
- ✓ Storytelling enhances the customer experience, making marketing more memorable and impactful.
- ✓ Video content is a powerful tool for engagement and should be a central part of any marketing strategy.
- ✓ AI will play an increasingly important role in the future of marketing and customer interaction.
- ✓ Community support and mentorship are vital for new tour operators as they grow their businesses.
What You’ll Find at The Marketing Coach
- ✓ Tailored marketing strategies for tour operators to increase direct bookings
- ✓ Tools and resources like the Strategy Builder to help operators refine their marketing approach
- ✓ Practical workshops and speaking engagements focused on real-world marketing tactics
- ✓ Data-driven insights that help businesses improve their marketing effectiveness
👉 Visit The Marketing Coach to learn more about Chris Torres’s approach to marketing and discover resources to help grow your tourism business.
Learn more about The Marketing Coach & Tourpreneur and connect with Chris at:
https://themarketing.coach/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:00.932)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. I’m very honored today. I have a fellow podcaster here with me and, and marketing expert, and we’re going to have an interesting conversation. We’ve got Chris. Chris Torres is the director of The Marketing Coach and Tourpreneur. Chris, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here. Yeah, this will be a real treat. And before we get going,
Chris Torres (00:21.966)
Well thank you Jason, I appreciate you inviting me on.
Jason Elkins (00:27.588)
Let’s give our listeners just kind of the 30 60 second elevator pitch for The Marketing Coach. That’s kind of my understanding something that is not really new, but kind of new to you. So what would you like our listeners to know about it?
Chris Torres (00:39.466)
Yeah, so it’s literally me being a coach, marketing coach, and also to some extent a business coach for mostly tourism businesses, tour operators, things like that, and helping them figure out how they should be pushing their businesses forward, their brands forward, and being recognized to try and get those direct bookings that they’re all craving for, and trying to move away more from the OTAs, et cetera, which are still important, still an important part of it, but to try and drive more of those direct bookings for sure.
Jason Elkins (01:00.592)
It makes sense. seems like a great niche because actually you’re also involved with the Tourpreneur group, which is a group that I’m in and every day I see tour operators on the world are coming in. Hey, how do I get more bookings? I’ve been relying on them, but I’m only getting actually just this morning someone posted, you know, I’m getting 95 % of my business from the OTAs, which we’re going to talk about. And how do I get more people to book direct so I don’t have
pay those commissions and that’s a whole big conversation. it seems like you’ve got a pretty good niche going. Well, I mean, you have the podcast, right? So that’s what you guys talk about a lot, I know. So very, very cool. And I want to get into the kind of your background as well and figure out how did you get from where you were to where you are now?
Chris Torres (01:35.158)
Yeah, that could be a three hour conversation on its own, right?
Chris Torres (01:44.334)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:55.694)
You know, obviously your accent’s a little bit different, so your story’s probably a little bit different than mine. Where did it all start for you, Chris?
Chris Torres (02:03.822)
Yeah, as you could probably tell by the accent, I’m Scottish, I’m based in Glasgow. And I sort of fell into marketing in a way. I left school at 16. I absolutely hated school. I didn’t go on well with the teachers, do anything else. I didn’t want to go to university or college because it just wasn’t my thing. I just wanted to go out and earn money and work. So I left school at 16.
Jason Elkins (02:11.912)
Well, what were you?
Chris Torres (02:30.722)
been told by all the teachers I wouldn’t amount to much, the usual sort of stuff back then. They weren’t very encouraging, put it that way. And I wanted to prove them.
Jason Elkins (02:39.236)
What were you doing for fun before that point when you left at 16? there interests? School, baby, was not an interest, but what were your interests up to that point?
Chris Torres (02:47.214)
I was very good at drawing. I used to draw a lot, line drawings and things like that. A lot about painting, football, soccer, as you would say, doing things like that. My kids just sit in their room on their iPads all day, whereas I used to be outside playing football and doing the usual things that we probably, we all used to do back as the kids don’t tend to do these days. I was doing all that, just running around playing football and drawing. That was the main things I was doing, watching movies as well.
Jason Elkins (03:09.04)
running around playing football and joining us. That was the main things I was doing. So did you get accused of having maybe some of that ADD, that attention deficit disorder? Because I hear creative and active and I can relate to those.
Chris Torres (03:23.342)
No, for sure. No, back then that wasn’t really diagnosed. No, it was actually, I always remember my mother taking me to a doctor because she says, basically the doctor was just saying he’s just finding the stuff in school, not stimulating enough. And he just, cause he is quite a creative person and that’s all it really was. So, but yeah, ADHD is definitely on the spectrum there. That’s for sure.
Jason Elkins (03:28.464)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (03:35.216)
I’ve noticed in more than a handful of conversations with tour operators and working in this business for a while, there’s something about this space that I think attracts people like you and I that, you know, that kind of like the variety that you weren’t mentioning the word stimulation.
I mean, I think that’s that’s it for me. I’ve been traveling full time for four years, basically just stimulation seeking to be honest, if I were to be completely honest with myself. So so so I get that completely. So all right. So you left school at 16. You said, man, this is too boring. I need more than this. This is driving me nuts. And what did you do?
Chris Torres (04:22.357)
Yeah. Yeah, so I actually went for a job interview at, I’m not mistaken, I wasn’t going to college. I went for a job interview at a place called Jordan Hill College, who were looking for people who were good at art to do kids educational books at the time. So they saw my portfolio, just stuff I just drew at the house and things like that. And I got a job pretty much straight away.
Jason Elkins (04:30.588)
I went for a job interview.
wow.
Jason Elkins (04:46.998)
and get a job pretty much straight away based on what I was drawing. So I used to draw lions and tigers, all sort of using pens, so pen art, things like that. Did all that for about a year or two and then an agency came calling and I went to an agency and it’s been doing that up since, working in branding and marketing and graphic design and all that sort of stuff from that point forward.
Chris Torres (04:48.494)
based on what I was drawing. So I used to draw like lions and tigers, all sort of using pens, so pen art, things like that. Did all that for about a year or two. And then an agency came calling and I went to an agency and it’s been doing that ever since, working in branding and marketing and graphic design and all that sort of stuff from that point forward. And while working my years through various agencies, I was working for one agency, me and…
Jason Elkins (05:12.272)
While working my years through various agencies, I was working for one agency. Me and person called Tom at that time were both sitting there pretty much running the place ourselves. And we decided, why are we doing this for ourselves? Why are we not doing this for ourselves? So that’s what we did. So we went off on our own and we set up, Diane, it was called Dojo Design Studio. We set up Dojo Design Studio, that was 17 years ago.
Chris Torres (05:18.741)
a person called Tom at that time, were both sitting there pretty much running the place ourself. We decided, why are we doing this for ourself? Why are we not doing this for ourself, I should say. So that’s what we did. So we went off on our own and we set up, then it was called Dojo Design Studio. We set up Dojo Design Studio, that was 17 years ago. And one of our very first…
Jason Elkins (05:41.23)
and one of our very first clients we managed to get on board was a company called Max Adventure based in Scotland who were a tour company and they used a platform called TourCMS which was one of the very first booking platforms out at the time.
Chris Torres (05:43.086)
clients we managed to get on board was a company called Max Adventure based in Scotland who were a tour company. And they used a platform called TourCMS which was one of the very first booking platforms out at the time. Alex Bainbridge, I always say Alex Bainbridge is what got me into tourism because his system who was he was a father of booking systems for the industry. He basically got me that client and from there it snowballed when everybody realized what websites you could build with the
Jason Elkins (05:55.536)
Alex Benbridge, I always say Alex Benbridge is what got me into tourism because his system, he was the father of booking systems for the industry. He basically got me that client and from there it snowballed. When everybody realised what websites you can build with the booking platform and everyone’s going, this is what you can do, then we just get more and more and more of it.
Chris Torres (06:11.022)
with the booking platform, everyone is going, this is what you can do. And then we just get more and more and more of it. And quite quickly, seven or eight months down the line, close to a year, we had sort of, we came to a crossroads and we decided, back then we used to work with everyone and anyone. And we decided we wanted to go down a niche. We had two niches, the tourism niche, and we did a lot of work with renewable energy. So wind turbines, solar panels, things like that.
Jason Elkins (06:16.143)
and quite quickly seven or eight months down the line, close to a year, we had sort of, we came to a crossroad. We decided back then we used to work with everyone and anyone and we decided we want to go down a niche. We had two niches, the tourism niche and we did a lot of work with renewable energy. So winter binds, solar panels, things like that. And within about two minutes conversation over a few other things, we decided do we really want to be talking about winter binds and solar panels?
Chris Torres (06:38.338)
And within about two minutes conversation over a beer, think it was, decided, do we really want to be talking about winter, binds and solar panels for the rest of our life? No, we don’t. So tourism is where we went.
Jason Elkins (06:50.377)
I got it completely when you when you said we had two niches that we were kind of focusing on and you mentioned the other one I I don’t know how to say this but I think my eyes kind of rolled back in the back of my head I’m like oh my gosh wind turbines so but that’s for us I mean I’m not saying they’re not fascinating and I’m sure there’s a lot of companies out there that are doing great work and I guess I’m curious
Chris Torres (07:05.038)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (07:14.958)
Before you got that first tourism, you said Max Adventures, is that right? Yeah. Before you got that, was tourism even on your radar was outdoor? I mean, you were active that we discussed, but was, had you ever left Scotland? Had you ever had desires? Are you one of those kids that grew up with all the national geographics and couldn’t wait to get out of the house to go travel the world? Or did it just kind of come by, come by surprise?
Chris Torres (07:19.618)
Mike’s adventure, yeah.
Chris Torres (07:40.206)
I was quite late. Yeah, I was quite late when it came to travel. However, my father was actually Portuguese. He came from Madeira. So we did travel to see some of the family out in Madeira every so often. So that was probably the only place I’d really been to. But apart from that, no, I didn’t really travel myself until I was in my early twenties, to be honest. A lot of my friends at school, they would go to Ibiza and things like that themselves and do the usual.
Jason Elkins (07:56.644)
I didn’t travel myself until I was in my early 20s to be honest. A lot of my friends at school maybe go to Ibiza and things like that themselves and do the usual teenage party type stuff. I just wasn’t interested in that.
Chris Torres (08:07.384)
teenage party type stuff. I just wasn’t interested in that type of thing to be honest. They were all the sort of people who when they got old enough, they bought cars and learned how to drive. I bought a flat. So I just wanted to be in my own flat and I was probably a bit too sensible at times, but I wanted to have my own flat and do my own thing and yeah, and rather than having a car. I actually wanted a Moen House, which I bought for, believe it not, I bought my first flat for 36,000 pounds, which we may be about 45.
Jason Elkins (08:11.76)
They were all the sort of people who when they got old enough they bought cars and learned how to drive. I bought a flat. So I just wanted to be in my own flat. I was probably a bit too sensible at times but I wanted to have my own flat, do my own thing.
Jason Elkins (08:28.144)
I bought my first flat for £36,000. It was about $45,000. I wish you could buy a house like that in that price now. It sounds like you’re kind of responsible. You sound like an interesting mix of maybe we talked, we said ADD or stimulation seeking, but also you sound like you’re
Chris Torres (08:37.656)
thousand dollars
Jason Elkins (08:58.266)
pretty reasonably kind of grounded as well in some of those regards.
Chris Torres (09:04.174)
That took effort when I was a bit of a rascal when I was younger, to be honest. That’s why I didn’t get well and well at school. And I think a lot of teachers didn’t like me at school and things like that for various reasons. And I think I just played on it because I had enough of it. So I just sort of played up to that sort of thing that they put me on, a pedestal that they put me on. So, but yeah, over the years I have came a bit more grounded, but back then, yeah, I was a bit of a wild child.
Jason Elkins (09:06.354)
yeah?
Jason Elkins (09:11.632)
I think a lot teachers didn’t like me at school and things like that for various reasons and I think I just played on it because I had an awful lot it I just played up to that sort of thing that it could be on. But yeah, over the years I have came a bit more grounded but back then yeah, I was a bit of a wild child.
Okay, so in the marketing, you know, I’d seen something on YouTube a few years ago. I knew that I had some interest in marketing, more the design stuff, like, you know, I enjoy websites actually enjoy putting together email automations, because there’s problem solving involved. And, and it’s very stimulating for me mentally. But anyway, I remember a few years ago, watching a video that someone was talking about my particular like Myers-Briggs personality style, I was kind of getting into that. And this person was
saying how my personality style is drawn to marketing. We think marketing is going to be really cool because we get excited about, you know, the visuals and the problem solving. But then she said, but the reality of marketing for a lot of people is spreadsheets and analytics and reporting and all that stuff. So you’ve had a lot of time in this business. I’m curious, was that part of it a struggle for you? Do you enjoy all of it or what parts really work best for you?
Chris Torres (10:30.766)
I know I have to admit though, I because because I love school so well, everything I’ve done throughout my whole career has been self taught. So I taught myself how to build websites. I taught myself how to do marketing. Obviously I learned some things at the agencies I was at and stuff like that as well. But yeah, for me marketing, you hit the nail on the head. No, for me marketing is basically problem solving. It’s like, how do we get this tour or this product or this service
Jason Elkins (10:49.744)
how do we get this product or this service in front of customers and how do we sell to make those customers want to buy that or really need that product.
Chris Torres (10:55.15)
in front of customers and how do we sell to make those customers want to buy that or really need that product or whatever. And it’s just trying to figure that out. And yeah, I like both the data side of things, looking at spreadsheets, looking at the data, looking at the analytics, et cetera. But yeah, the creative side is where I really sort of come into it and really push it and try to figure out the ways and the stories you tell and things like that and the way to get in front of customers. But yeah, you have to have a strong background in the…
Jason Elkins (11:03.28)
And it’s just trying to figure that out. And yeah, I like both the data side of things, looking at spreadsheets, looking at the data, looking at the analytics, et cetera. But yeah, the creative side is where I really sort of come into it and really push it and try to figure out the ways, the stories you tell and things like that, and the way to get in front of customers. But yeah, you have to have a strong background in the.
Chris Torres (11:24.418)
the data and stuff like that as well because without that then you don’t know if the things that you’re doing are working or not. So yeah, it goes hand in hand in my opinion. I can’t really separate them as such because you can’t have one without the other.
Jason Elkins (11:24.88)
the data and stuff like that as well because without that then you don’t know if the things that you’re doing are working or not. yeah, it goes hand in hand in my opinion. I can’t really separate themselves because you can’t have one without the other. Do you have, and along the way you’ve had other people that you’ve worked with on your team, business partners, that type of thing. Have you found yourself needing to kind of separate out some of those responsibilities to kind of focus on the areas you’re most interested in so you don’t get burned out or do you just feel like you just kind of need to be able to do all of it?
Chris Torres (11:55.246)
No, yeah, when I grew my team though, I recently sold my agency, but when I had a team of 16, 17, eventually grew to at that point before I sold it. And yeah, you have having those different people, those different experts in each of the fields just makes your life a lot easier. And took a lot of the burden off of myself and et cetera. having those sort of people there is a must know. For me, the best thing I ever did was hire a marketing, sorry, hire a business coach.
Jason Elkins (11:55.748)
No, Yeah, when I grew my team though, I wasn’t a soul major, so when I had a team of…
Jason Elkins (12:14.8)
take a lot of the burden off of myself and et cetera. So having those sort of people there is a must know. For me, the best thing I ever did was hire a marketing, sorry, hire a business coach back in the early days. he, his name is Forbes Price. He’s absolutely fantastic. He’s actually retiring this year, so we’re going to go. But yeah, he’s, got us to hire our first member of staff to say, oh, could we afford them? Could we not? we not?
Chris Torres (12:24.462)
back in the early days and he, his name is Forbes Price. He’s absolutely fantastic. He’s actually retiring this year, so we’re doing something for him. But yeah, he got us to hire our first member of staff to say, could we afford them? Could we not? Could we do this? And we brought in our first developer and things like that. And back then when we used to do a lot of bespoke websites. So yeah, that just snowballed and it allowed me to be more creative rather than get stuck in.
Jason Elkins (12:42.704)
developer and things like that. I then used to do a lot of bespoke websites. So yeah, that just noticed no-balled and it allowed me to be more creative rather than getting stuck in the admin side of things a lot more and just dealing with the day-to-day business.
Chris Torres (12:51.34)
the admin side of things a lot more and just dealing with the day-to-day business sort of management and stuff like that. yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:55.6)
of the management of the customer. Right. And you know, this conversation is very similar to what, you know, some of our listeners are tour operators, you know, and they’re listening to this right now and they’re, and they can relate to that because oftentimes a tour operator has a certain personality style or particular interests that they’re interested in. That’s why they get into this business. And then, you know, maybe, I mean, we keep saying
we can help you do the stuff you don’t like so you can do focus on the stuff you do like and focus on the stuff that moves the needle. And obviously now you’re working with clients as a coach and helping them figure out how to do that. So what’s, is that a problem you often see with tour operators? I know you’ve spoken with so many of them and how do you help them kind of get focused? And I work with some too. I’ve got some, they’re amazing. They’re so good with people. They’re so…
outgoing and all that stuff, but man, when it comes to some of the details and some of the things, so what has your experience been? Yeah, I can vary quite well with tour operators. find you’ll get some who all they really want to do is run tours because that’s what they love. So for people like that, if they just want to run tours, they need someone else in the business to bring in the sales and manage the day to day of the business.
Chris Torres (13:54.56)
Yeah, it can vary quite wildly with with tour operators. I find you’ll get some who all they really want to do is run tours because that’s what they love. So for people like that, if they just want to run tours, they need someone else in the business to bring in the sales and manage the day to day of the business. as I found quite quickly, if you try to wear all the different hats in your own business, you’re not going to get anywhere fast. So you need to bring in the right people. My business coach always gave me a
Jason Elkins (14:13.902)
As I found quite quickly, if you try to wear all the different hats in your own business, you’re not going to get anywhere fast.
You need to bring in the right people. My business coach always gave me a good piece of advice. It was always difficult to hire someone who could do that particular job better than you. Because it’s the only way you’ll move forward. it’s looking at people who can drive the business forward to allow you to do the things that you like. So yeah, some two operators just want to go out and guide. Other two operators just see it as a job and want to hire guides and do it that way and manage them and don’t really want to do guides or guiding themselves. That’s fine as long as get the right people, right team, the right guides to
Chris Torres (14:23.726)
good piece of advice. And was always, you’re going to hire someone, hire someone who can do that particular job better than you, because it’s the only way you’ll move forward. So it’s looking at people who can drive the business forward to allow you to do the things that you like. So yeah, some two operators just want to go out and guide, other two operators just see it as a job and want to hire guides and do it that way and manage them and don’t really want to do guides, no guiding themselves. That’s fine as long as you get the right people in the right team, the right guides to do what you need to do.
Jason Elkins (14:50.93)
do you need to do. So it just depends on what the operators want you to do at end of the day. Some love marketing, some don’t, some hate it, some don’t really like technologies, they hate websites and don’t want to even think about building websites and stuff like that. So the only way you can drive a business forward is to get the right people and I think that’s why
Chris Torres (14:51.778)
So it just depends on what the operators wanted to do at the end of the day. Some love marketing, some don’t, some hate it. Some don’t even like technology, so they hate websites and don’t want to even think about building websites and stuff like that. So the only way you’re going to drive the business forward is to get the right people. And I think that’s why OTS have grown the way they have, because there is a lot of operators out there who just don’t want to deal with marketing and don’t want to deal with websites and that side of things.
Jason Elkins (15:09.744)
OTS have grown the way they have because there is a lot of operators there who just go from to deal with marketing and go from to deal with websites and that sort of That’s actually, I’m going to touch on that and before we do, what I hear you saying is there is no one size fits all type of ants. You can’t just say, okay, Mr. Tour operator or Mrs. Tour operator, the first person you need to hire is an accountant. Just throwing out example or bookkeeper.
because everybody, every organization is a little bit different. So if you were to write a blog post and say, the key to success, to being a tour operator, going from a one man show to a successful business, that’s not just you creating work for yourself, is to hire X, Y, or Z because you don’t know, it depends. Which is probably why it’s really helpful to have a conversation with a coach. Because I think a lot of people aren’t really sure what they like about it. know, you almost, I suspect a lot of your initial,
consultation calls are trying to dig down into, okay, what got you into this in the first place? What are you really excited about? What do you get up in the morning excited to go do, right?
Chris Torres (16:12.407)
Yeah, that’s…
Chris Torres (16:16.174)
Yeah, there’s plenty of that. And the usual question you ask people is, no, where do you see yourself or see the business in five years time? 99 % of the people can’t answer that. No, they can’t even think five months ahead, nevermind five years. yeah, you’ve got to have an angle.
Jason Elkins (16:22.416)
They’re like, I’m trying to put together a new tour that I’m going to release in two months, but that’s hard to think. And I get that. Honestly, I run into some of those struggles with my business.
Chris Torres (16:41.87)
Yeah, if they’re creative, if they’re creative, no, and a lot of tour operators are because they want to create new tours and they’re always thinking about new tours and wanting to put stuff together. to me, that’s, that’s a detriment to try and grow the business. Because sometimes if you’re just, and I’m guilty of it myself, to be honest, but if you’re a tour operator, might have three or four or five tours there that could really sell well if you put some effort and time into pushing them and promoting them, et cetera, rather than thinking, I’m not making enough money. What will I do?
Jason Elkins (16:52.912)
detriment to try and grow the business because sometimes if you’re just and I’m guilty of it myself to be honest but if you’re a tour operator you might have three or four or five tours there that could really sell well if you put some effort and time into pushing them and promoting them etc rather than thinking I’m not making enough money what will I do I’ll create another tour maybe that one will sell and you just keep creating more more more more tours and you’re just a busy fool at the end of the day so it’s doubling down on the things that you have you’d be
Chris Torres (17:09.484)
I’ll create another tour, maybe that one will sell. And you just keep making more and more and more more tours. And you’re just a busy fool at the end of the day. it’s doubling down on the things that you have. Love the product you’ve already created because if you love the product and you feel it’s a product that people would want or an experience that people would want, promote that. Don’t just keep trying to rehash or create a new wheel for every time you think something’s not working. It just takes some things, it just takes time to embed.
Jason Elkins (17:22.8)
Love the product you’ve already created because if you love the product and you feel it’s a product that people would want or an experience that people would want, promote that. Don’t just keep trying to rehash it. Create a new wheel for every time you think something’s not working. It just takes time to invest. Right, because if people are not seeing your tours and you just keep adding more tours, you just have more tours that people aren’t seeing.
Chris Torres (17:46.922)
Mm-hmm. And more headache.
Jason Elkins (17:47.888)
So you’re from the market or from the yeah, cuz I yeah cuz I’ve you know, I’ve met with tour operators that you know, they have 20 tours on their website maybe more and They’re like, well, we’re not people aren’t converting on the website or we’re not getting traffic to the website and and Then I say well, we talked about how many tours they have and they say well We’re gonna add 10 more over the next year and I’m like hold on Let’s try and sell what you got before you know
And also sometimes, yeah.
Chris Torres (18:17.678)
It’s not just that. So I was just going to say it’s not just that. If you give people too many options, they switch off. So if it’s just like going to a restaurant and we’ve all been there, you went to go to a restaurant and you’re presented with almost like a folder menu where you’ve just got page after page after page of different options. And basically what that just tells me is the chef isn’t confident in one or two or three or four or five dishes of what he can do. He’s just trying to cater for everyone and anyone. And that’s what
Jason Elkins (18:24.986)
Yes.
Chris Torres (18:47.054)
happens when you’re on a website, if you have 20, even 20 tours, I think too many, if you have 20, 30, 40 tours on a website, people are just going, well, what do want to do? No, they just look at it all and they just get confused. If you can present them six, maybe 12 tours max, and they’re each different and they each can give that particular customer, enhance their lives by the experience that they want to do. tours should enhance in someone’s life and give them something they remember.
Jason Elkins (19:02.16)
and they’re each different and they each can give that particular customer enhanced lives by the experience you’re going to do. Because it should enhance someone’s life and give them something they remember through the storytelling and things that you do. If you give them less options, then you’ll probably find yourself more. Right. It’s kind of that option overload, analysis, bi-paralysis, all these different terms that we use. I, for a period of my life, I worked in real estate and it was the
Chris Torres (19:15.147)
through the storytelling and things that you do. If you give them less options, then you’ll probably find you’ll sell more.
Jason Elkins (19:31.706)
the Zillow effect, right? Back in the day, if somebody wanted to go buy a house, you know, they contact an agent and the agent had a big book with all the listings in it. And the agent would go through and pick out three or four basically for the, for the client and say, okay, this is what’s available. And they go out and one afternoon they drive around, they look at three or four houses and they make a decision. And, from the client’s perspective, it’s like, okay, those are the three or four houses or no need to look at anything else. But now you’ve got
Zillow or all these apps on your phone and your agent can set you up for a search and they’ll send you 40 listings and then you know, okay, what do I do with that? And you go, you can look at more than three or four houses a day. You can’t make any decisions anyway. Or the minute you find a house, you think it’s the right house, then tomorrow you get another email from Zillow saying, look at these new listings. And it’s kind of the same thing. I guess that’s why I’m sharing that.
Boy, there’s so many topics here. I do want to touch on this though, because when we were discussing a little bit about tour operators doing what they love and transitioning and growing their team, I expect that I know because I did this myself is I had built kind of a one-man tour operation business at one point and went out there and just worked my butt off and got all the great reviews and had all the great experiences, all the great memories. And I remember kind of feeling like, okay, well,
Can I really trust anybody else? Like, I know that I can’t keep doing this all by myself, but I’ve worked so hard and all every review mentions Jason by name and how do you, how do you let go of that? And I suspect there’s a lot of tour operators that it’s just that, that gets in the way of them moving forward. So how do you get past that?
Chris Torres (21:20.618)
Yeah, again, you basically have to learn that. No, you do need to put your ego to one side. If the business, I’ve came across a lot of operators that that person is the business. No, it’s they take out the tours. You’re basically buying into that person. And that’s fine if that’s the type of business that you want to run. Just you won’t be able to scale that business as readily as you could do if it was a touroperator.com.
Jason Elkins (21:29.422)
the business I’ve came across a lot of operators that that person is the business though, they take out the tours, you’re basically buying into that person and that’s fine if that’s the type of business you want to run, just you won’t be able to scale that business as readily as you could do if it was a touroperator.com whatever brand rather than a personal brand and you’re driving that forward by the different guides and making the guides the star of the show and I’ve always said this when it comes to
Chris Torres (21:47.896)
whatever brand rather than a personal brand and you’re driving that forward by the different guides and making the guides the star of the show. And I’ve always said this, when it comes to marketing a tour or any tourism business for that matter, the best way to market that is through the people within a business. So the tour guides or whoever, even the people who works in the back room, the admin, everything else, tell their stories and get them across. at the end of the day, know, tourists are very different from buying a pair of…
Jason Elkins (21:56.622)
marketing a tool or any tool as a business for that matter.
the best way to market that is through the people within the business. So the tour guides, or whoever, even the people that works in the back room, the admin, everything else, tell their stories and get them across. Because at end of the day, know, tourists are very different from buying a pair of Adidas shoes or whatever would be. They buy into other people. So they want someone to take them out on tour, who’s going to take them on a journey and give them a look.
Chris Torres (22:15.91)
Adidas shoes or whatever it would be. They buy into other people. So they want someone to take them out on tour, who’s going to take them on a journey and give them, the storytelling element has to be really high. And they want to feel something at the end of it. They’re not there to just listen to a few facts and figures and stats. That just bores people to death. And that’s not going to be memorable. they…
Jason Elkins (22:29.85)
storytelling element has to really high and they want to feel something at the end of it. They’re not there to just listen to a few facts and figures and stats, that just bores people to death and that’s not going to be memorable. by telling the stories and whether that’s through, I’m a huge fan of video and marketing, so through video, through blogs by your guides or at least seen as if they came from your guides, you’ve got a marketing agency or something like that writing this sort stuff for you.
Chris Torres (22:43.086)
by telling the stories and whether that’s through, I’m a huge fan of video and marketing. So through video, through blogs by your guides or at least seen as if they’ve came from your guides. If you’ve got a marketing agency or something like writing this sort of stuff for you, get them to the fore because at the end of the day, it’s gonna be your people who will sell your products to the customers. I actually wrote this in my first book, but the reason why I picked Japan when I went to Japan was off the back of one video from one tour guide.
Jason Elkins (22:56.59)
Wow
Chris Torres (23:12.93)
And I still remember his name, Tyler Palmer from Inside Japan Tours. We saw the video, me and my wife, and then we said, right, we’re gonna go to Japan and we’re gonna book through this company just because of the way he came across in the video. And we were gonna go for two weeks. We ended up extending our stay for a month traveling around Japan. Two weeks guided, two weeks self-guided, but they organized all the things for us. But the thing that really I love about the story is we got to the airport.
Jason Elkins (23:27.376)
We were going to go for two weeks. We ended up extending our stay for a month traveling around Japan. Two weeks self-guided but they organized all the things for us. But the thing that really I love about the story is when we got to the airport, it was Tyler Palmer who met us and he happened to be our guide. So it was almost like you got to the airport and you met a friend and said, yeah I saw you in the video and you got chatting and it just broke the ice and you can’t really get that in any other industry.
Chris Torres (23:40.684)
It was Tyler Palmer who met us and he happened to be our guide. Just out of coincidence. So it was almost like you got to the airport and you met a friend and say, I saw you in a video and you got chatting and it just broke the ice. that you would, can’t really get that in any other industry apart from tourism. it’s.
Jason Elkins (23:56.366)
I’m curious, how did you come across that video? Was that just something in social media, YouTube, or had you already heard of the company and then saw the video? Okay.
Chris Torres (24:03.309)
YouTube.
Did I Google search? No, this was just before we decided to start a family. And my daughter’s gonna be 16 this year. So this may be about 17 years ago. And this company was using YouTube extensively. I know people now who don’t have you posted up one video on YouTube, nevermind, 17 years ago. So they were using YouTube extensively and one of their videos popped up. And it was through that that we decided to call the company. And because there was no online booking at that point.
Jason Elkins (24:11.568)
Okay.
Chris Torres (24:34.446)
So we decided to call the company and they just took us through the journey of saying, did you know you can get to top of Mount Fuji? Do know you can go and see a real life geisha and do that? We’re like, really? But we can do all this and that’s why it made us extend our stay for a month.
Jason Elkins (24:37.584)
Okay. It’s very cool. you mentioned that, yeah, there’s some operators out there that haven’t posted anything. And I kind of get that because actually, I think that’s the, I’m going to say I’m going to use the word brilliance. I think that’s the brilliance of things like podcasts, especially if we’re recording them video like you like, so for example, you and I
recording this on video. Most of our listeners probably not seeing the video, but when I’m done with this, I’m going to chop it up. I’m going to have a little clip. I’m going to put it out on LinkedIn and somebody’s going to see you on LinkedIn saying something brilliant about your business. And it’s like, okay, cool. And then if you said, Jason, that was amazing. Can you give me 12 more clips? I’ll give you 12 more clips. And we, and then you’ve got three months worth of video content that you can push out there.
And what’s great about that is it overcomes that resistance to, you you tell an operator, you tell one of your clients, hey, you need to post video. You should take your phone, walk down the street and talk about something, or you should walk through the woods or along the bank of the river and talk about something. It sounds great, but who’s going to do that?
Chris Torres (25:58.009)
Well, that’s the thing, it’s, you know, everyone’s got a phone. It’s, there is no excuse not to do video now. And the thing it always, the thing that always gets me as some operators, a lot of operators really that I’ve spoken with say, I don’t know if I want to be in front of video and you’re in front, you’re in front of customers. You are basically telling a story. You’re taking people out. Why is that any different? Just because you’ve got a camera in your face. There is no, just be you. No, you don’t need to think that you’re Audrey Hepburn or, or whoever. No, just.
Jason Elkins (26:03.748)
Well…
Jason Elkins (26:11.982)
Yeah. Okay. But here’s the here’s the thing that’s easy for you and I to say that we both do podcasts. We both work in marketing. We’ve both done it a few times.
Chris Torres (26:27.106)
Go out there, just record. Doesn’t need to be a Hollywood blockbuster. Just go out and do it.
Jason Elkins (26:40.272)
But the reality is, I think, is that there are so many, like you said, I don’t want to be on camera. They might say that their initial response might be, oh, I don’t really want to be on camera. I don’t want to look bad. you know, my, my hair or the wrinkles in it or whatever. They’ll say that. But those same people, if you say, look, Hey, why don’t we just show up, have a conversation? know. Cause I’ve done 120 episodes now that started with, Hey, you seem interesting. Why don’t you come on my show? We’ll have a conversation.
They come on the show, we’ve got the camera going the whole time. We have an amazing conversation and now you’ve got an hour worth of content that they didn’t even have to think about. So the point is whether that’s on my show, your show, any show, just find somebody to interview you so you don’t have to think about what to say. Maybe, I don’t know. That’s kind of where I’m going with my thought process.
Chris Torres (27:30.126)
Yeah, it’s just been as natural as you can. No, some people will want this sort of, you know, if you’re, I always say every, every tour should have a tour itinerary video where you’ve got the guy just doing a 30 or 60 second video of saying, you’re going to come on this tour. This is what we’re going to see here. Some hidden gems and some things you’ve never probably seen before that on a tour page can sell a tour massively. And that’s just something that can take 60 seconds to record and put up there on YouTube and embed the link. Again, it’s, it’s the tools are there for people to use. It’s just,
Jason Elkins (27:36.112)
say every tour should have a tour itinerary video where you’ve got the guide just doing a 30 or 60 second video of saying, we’re going to come on this tour.
seen before, that on a tour page can sell a tour massively. And that’s just something that can take 60 seconds to record and put up there on YouTube and embed the link. The tools are there for people to use. It’s just using it and just getting over yourself and just getting out there doing it. It’s not going be perfect the first time you try it. The more and more you do it, the better it’s be. And I think that the conversational aspect is what lowers the
Chris Torres (27:58.594)
just using it and just getting over, basically getting over yourself and the skin out there and doing it. You’re not gonna, you’re not just, it’s not gonna be perfect from the first time you try it, but the more and more you do it, the more and more, the better you’re make it become.
Jason Elkins (28:13.166)
lowers the stress and the anxiety around it. So if I’m a tour operator, I’ve got a tour guide. I’m not going to say, Hey Mike, can you record a minute and a half for me talking about what to expect on the tour and what you like most about the tour? Yeah, they’re not going to do that. I mean, they’re going to whatever, but instead you, you know, the tour operator or somebody on the team that’s good at asking questions can say, Hey Mike, can I spend 20 minutes with you next Tuesday afternoon? 20, 30 minutes.
I just want to ask you some questions about you, what’s going on here, the trips that you like the most, whatever, whatever, whatever. And Mike doesn’t need to prepare. Mike just shows up, maybe has the right shirt on with the logo, whatever. And then you go away and you’ve got the stuff, you create all this content. But there’s also like this idea recently I’ve had, I haven’t really seen it. It’s probably out there is the about us pages on, on websites. You know, people do, I believe go to those pages.
And sometimes they’re not that stunning. They’re just like, okay, you’ve got one person, you’ve got 40 people. And what am I really getting out of that? I’m not really sure, but I tend to, think people tend to go look at it just to make sure that there’s not some guy that looks like he just got released from prison on the page. I’m not really sure why people go there, but what…
Chris Torres (29:29.262)
But that proves my point that people buy from people, they look at these pages because they want to see the friendly faces. They want to see the smiles and things like that. And yeah, if you’ve just got a bland about us page and it’s also, it needs to be good for SEO as well and all the other technical side of things. if people go there and they just see it and they can, I always tell operators that if you’ve got a team of people and you can click into the profile, you read that person’s profile. And then if you’ve got blogs as if written by them or maybe written by them in real life.
Jason Elkins (29:36.847)
Right?
Yeah, if you just get a bland about us page, and it’s obviously, it needs to be good for SEO as well and all the other technical stuff. If people go there and they just see it, and they can, I always tell operators that if you’ve got a team of people, click into the profile, you read that person’s profile, and then if you’ve got blogs as if written by them, or maybe written by them in real life, attached to that profile, then people can start to learn each other’s styles and things like that, way they tell stories, all that, everything just helps.
Chris Torres (29:59.054)
attached to that profile, then people can start to learn each other’s styles and things like that, the way they tell stories. All that, everything just helps in the long run.
Jason Elkins (30:07.568)
Because you remember, you mentioned that people don’t want to go on tours for stats and figures and you know, that idea that, you know, I don’t want to go on this experience so I can figure out what the elevation of the city is and when it was first settled and all this stuff. mean, those are good things to know in case people ask, guess, but it’s about the storytelling. So if you go to an About Us page and it’s, this is Mike, he’s 37 years old.
He grew up in Wisconsin and has spent the last three summers guiding with us and has three children, two dogs and da da da da. So that’s the whole point of this conversation is right. If people aren’t looking for a tour like that, don’t make your about us page like that. Cause it’s going to turn them off. but what, but what if each person on your about page had a, a minute and a half or a minute, clip from a conversation, from an interview.
Get everybody on your staff to go be on a podcast and get a one minute clip for each one of them. And, you know, you’ve got their, you’ve got their picture and you say, Hey, meet, meet Mike. And there’s a little play button and they play it. And Mike is telling a story about a client that he led to the top of a mountain one time or something. And just to create that personality. And it’s not that hard. It’s, it seems overwhelming to do it. If you’re the tour operator listening to this right now, you’re like, yeah, Jason, easy for you to say.
But it can be done. Reach out to someone like Chris, myself, whatever. We can help you make it happen. just so much more personality. That’s.
Chris Torres (31:37.486)
Yeah, and there’s so many online tools now. Yeah, there’s so many online tools now. can do the Riverside, for example, that can create all these different things really easily. I always remember a tour guide. It was Grayley in Iceland, actually, and one tour guide, again, maybe it’s just my luck, but it happened to be her tour guide when I was in Iceland. And she was on the bus, but she did this video. It was all about how Viking culture and Icelandic culture and all these sort of things.
Jason Elkins (31:45.744)
I always remember a tour guide, was Grayley in Iceland actually, and one tour guide, again, maybe it’s just my luck, but it happened to be a tour guide when I was in Iceland, and she was on the bus, and she did this video, it was all about how Viking culture and Icelandic culture and all these other things, and how they don’t have a word for thank you, it’s just not in a book either. In Iceland it’s basically, that’s it. But it was just a funny little bit.
Chris Torres (32:04.822)
and how they don’t have a word for thank you. It’s just not in the vocabulary. It’s based, it’s an Icelandic space like do it. And that’s it. I but it was just, it was just a funny little video all about that. And again, it’s just seeing the personalities and the funny stories from the perspective of the guys just, just makes your brand more welcoming and makes people want to go. I want to take it to that person.
Jason Elkins (32:16.368)
Yeah, let’s just see the personalities and the funny stories from the perspective of the guys. Just make sure brands are welcoming and makes people want to go. I want to take care of that. Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing that’s come up recently, was probably an entrepreneur, someone who was talking about the fake reviews and with AI now. And I know that as a tour operator, I can also reply to a review using AI, but that means people can write reviews using AI and that means systems can write reviews.
And there’s some credibility issues that are starting to come up. It’s like, okay, you’ve got 150 five-star reviews on TripAdvisor, but do I really believe that? And which got me thinking, you know, social proof on your website is important. And most operators, even on my website, I’ve got a list of, comments and reviews that people have left. And wouldn’t it be great to have a handful of video testimonials, you know?
You’ve got a great, you’ve got a guest that went that was amazed. They wrote an amazing review. They’re really outgoing and you reach out to them and say, Hey, Julie, you know, I saw your view on TripAdvisor. Gosh, it was so much fun having you guys. I got some great pictures when you were here. How do you feel about me doing a zoom call or Riverside call, whatever, and just chatting with you for, you know, 10, 15 minutes about your experience and then, you know, share that with some of our
you know, potential future, future guests. And then you’ve got instead of the little excerpts along your website, the little roller of excerpts, you’ve got a roller of thumbnails from clients that have actually been there.
Chris Torres (33:52.462)
Yeah, it’s a great idea and though all a customer can say or a customer can say is no, but you’ll probably find a few will say yes. And if you get a handful who will do it that you can then post up on reels and shots, also your video, your website, et cetera, then that’s all going to help. No, it will just help massively.
Jason Elkins (34:06.544)
your website, etc. you know what they’ll do? If you do a short or you do a little clip of or even a highlights reel of the conversation, they’re going to share it in their social media too. You know, they’re going to make sure everybody they know in their social media saw, hey, I went to Patagonia and we stayed at this amazing place and wow, they interviewed me for their, I don’t know, it doesn’t have to be a podcast, but they
they interviewed me and here’s the clip and isn’t this cool? I mean, if they’re the type of person that says, yes, they’re probably going to want to share it. So there’s, there’s so many, so many good things you can do that, like you said, could be just Riverside. We’re recording this in a platform called Riverside. I should say there’ll be a link in the show notes because I do have an affiliate link, but I’ve, but I’ve never really thought about things that way. I probably should, but anyway, so, so all kinds of, kinds of cool things out there.
Chris Torres (35:04.01)
Yeah, on reviews actually just very quickly. It’s one of my bug bearers where I come across a tour operators website. They’ve got amazing reviews on Google or TripAdvisor or whatever their reviews happen to be. And then they just stick out the reviews and the footer of their website or a little logo somewhere that nobody can see it. It should be high up on the page. It’s your trust builder. So why hide it? Why have it stuck in a footer where no one will go to?
Jason Elkins (35:13.392)
Amazing reviews on Google or TripAdvisor or whatever.
Jason Elkins (35:20.506)
website or a little logo somewhere that nobody can see. It should be high up on the page. It’s a trust product so why have it stuck in the…
Chris Torres (35:30.912)
If anyone’s listening and you don’t have your reviews high up on your homepage, please do the show now.
Jason Elkins (35:33.072)
high up on your homepage and please do this your way. At this point if I see a website that doesn’t mention reviews I’m thinking there’s a problem right but but but the truth is you’re right I’ve you know because I look at a lot of websites as I communicate with people and do some of the stuff and I’ll look at their website and I’m like okay websites are I see nothing about reviews then I’ll hop over I’ll Google it and get Google reviews trip by the reviews I’m like wow
Chris Torres (35:42.926)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (35:59.984)
They’ve got 374 five-star reviews and there’s no mention of TripAdvisor anywhere on their website. And maybe it’s because they’ve got this concern about OTAs or, well, if I linked to TripAdvisor, if I mentioned TripAdvisor, most people, I’m curious to know what your thoughts are, but if I’m already on your website and I see a scroller that says you has a trust index of 5.0 and you’ve got 700,
five star reviews and I see a few excerpts and maybe even a video of a client. I’m probably not going to DripAdvisor. You probably don’t need to worry too much about that. I’m probably sold. I’m ready. I’m not leaving this website. I don’t know. Do you think it’s a…
Chris Torres (36:42.542)
No, it’s true. I agree with that. There’s two ways you can look at it. So if someone’s on a website and they see all those videos and great reviews and everything else, they’re probably going to book direct. If they do see a TripAdvisor badge and they go off, there’s maybe an issue that you’re not explaining on your website, your terms and conditions or your refund policy or anything like that, because they know they can go to TripAdvisor and it would be an issue. If they ask for a refund or something happens,
Jason Elkins (36:46.32)
There’s two ways you can look at it. So if someone’s on the website and they see all those videos and great reviews and everything else, they’re probably going to book on by the time they’re ready.
Jason Elkins (36:58.512)
may be an issue that you’re not explaining on your website, your terms and conditions or your refund policy or anything like that because they know they can go to TripAdvisor and it would be an issue if he has a refund or something happens, they’ll just get their money back and that’s it. It’s same with booking.com, they all do similar things. But if someone’s booking on TripAdvisor or any OTA after being on your website… Something’s wrong. Why have they done that? It’s probably because he doesn’t answer the
Chris Torres (37:10.478)
they’ll just get their money back. that’s what it’s the same with booking.com and all the others. They all do some of things. But if someone’s booking on TripAdvisor or any OTA after being on your website, I would start to question why have they done that? It’s probably because you’d never answered the question on the website by your refund policy was your cancellation policy and things like that. So you really need to make all that clear.
Jason Elkins (37:34.1)
But also like and because the other mistakes some people make that’s almost the opposite mistake is they’re very proud of their trip advisor reviews and they almost tell people go look at us on TripAdvisor. I don’t you don’t need to do that. Don’t say we’re number we’re the number two operator in Arusha.
read our reviews on TripAdvisor. You don’t need to use those little widgets that TripAdvisor will give you. You know, you can just take a screenshot, whatever. Yeah, we’re number two. Here’s some excerpts.
Chris Torres (38:03.896)
Well, there’s plugins out there that allow you to pull them in and things like that. You don’t need to use those stuff.
Jason Elkins (38:07.136)
Yeah, yeah. But you don’t want to send them to TripAdvisor because you’re right, they go to TripAdvisor. There’s a lot of distractions because sometimes you go to an operator’s page on TripAdvisor and then you see you might also like or that similar experiences or whatever and you can lose them that way. So that’s a bouncing out.
Chris Torres (38:26.894)
Oh yeah, for sure. The sort of rule of thumb that I give is if a customer has left or if a customer has booked through an OTA because that’s platform that they trust getting to leave the review on the OTA. If they’ve booked direct, always use Google. That’s basically the rule that I always say. And if you are more heavily reliant on OTAs, then start to migrate people towards to get more onto Google as well. Because with…
Jason Elkins (38:33.008)
left, or if a customer has booked through an OTA, because that’s a platform that they trust, getting to lead the review on the OTA. If they’ve booked direct, always use Google. That’s basically what I also do. And if you are more heavily reliant on OTAs, then start to migrate people towards to get more onto Google as well.
Chris Torres (38:54.87)
If you do more on Google, do more reviews on Google, that’s just going to help your SEO and do all the other things going forward.
Jason Elkins (38:55.478)
you do more Google, do more reviews on Google, that’s just going to help your SEO and do all the other things going forward. Right. So you’re saying, so you’re speaking specifically to like after they’ve had the experience, they booked through Viator or whatever. you might encourage the client to go leave a review on Viator as opposed to if maybe they booked direct, then go a different route. And I think that’s
I think that’s actually something else that I saw recently. Someone was asking and they said, we’ve got all these reviews on TripAdvisor, but we don’t have, you know, we don’t really have anything on Google. And the person was, I’m afraid to ask them to leave two reviews. And I think something that I learned a long time ago was you give them an option, you know, say, look, well, first of all, you probably send them an email and say, how was your experience?
you know, zero to five, you know, zero to five stars. And if they select anything less than five, it takes them to a page where they can tell you you about it. And if they select five, it takes them to a page where it’s like, you know, here’s if you like Google, here’s the link to leave a review for Google. If you like TripAdvisor, here’s a link to TripAdvisor. If you like, you know, give them the option because like some people like some of these platforms, you have to get a user account or whatever you got to
know, set up a name and people are just like, I leave Google reviews all the time. It’s easy for me. So I’m probably going to go do that. So give them a few options and then, you know, then you’re kind of, yeah, let, let, let them decide is.
Chris Torres (40:30.956)
Yeah, let them decide.
On reviews, briefly, as you were talking about, I try to make them personal to the brand and things like that. If you’re a guide and you’re out there asking for, every guide should be asking for a review at the end of the experience. And they can even make fun of it and say, hey, look, love you to leave me a review. And again, make light of it. If my boss sees me, I’ve got many reviews and you’ve named me and I might get a wage rise or something, I don’t know, just make light of it. Always try to make sure that the person leaves a review with the guide’s name in and stuff.
Jason Elkins (40:50.8)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Chris Torres (41:03.522)
you were talking about AI and all these different things that may be writing reviews. When it looks like they’re naming people and you’re mentioning places that you’ve been and seen and things like that, then that’s going to come across as more genuine.
Jason Elkins (41:16.97)
I it’s a good way to keep your guides engaged. You’re asking the guides to make an effort to get the clients to their name, but also the guides, you know, I’ve been a guide, I’ve done that. And if I do a guide trip for a company and then later on my client posts a review on their website and mentions, wow, Jason was great, it was so much fun, that keeps them engaged as well. I think that’s really, really good advice. What’s, what,
What you think is the biggest, I’m not going to ask you what’s the biggest challenge with AI because that’s 14 more episodes that we could do. And you’re already discussing it and I actually have another show that I’m co-hosting. talk about AI stuff as well. So we won’t get into that too much. Let’s talk about this though. Your family. Because you mentioned that you went to Japan before your daughter was born, I believe.
Is your daughter, the rest of your family, you know, or is everybody enthusiastic about this travel stuff? Are you traveling very often to work with clients? cause I know you do the mark, you know, you’re not a tour operator, but you deal with a lot of tour operators and I suspect you travel a bit.
Chris Torres (42:25.326)
Yeah, I travel quite a bit. So I’ve got a daughter Heather, who’s gonna be 16 actually in August, so not that far away. My son Kyle, who’s nine. So I have an age difference in between them. I decided to have a little gap. My wife is an architect, Maggie, so she’s an architect, but she decided to basically work on her own or leave her job just because I was traveling so much to help look after the family and stuff like that. So she did a massive thing by doing that.
Jason Elkins (42:41.872)
My wife is an architect, she’s an architect, but she decided to basically work on her own or leave her job just because I was travelling so much to help her family and stuff like that, so she did a massive amount of with doing that. And yeah, I travel a lot, I speak at conferences, I run events, tour per hour, I travel to run workshops and coaching sessions and things like that, so I do a lot of that. And it tends to be a bit heavy at the start of year and the end of the year, that sort of…
Chris Torres (42:54.702)
And yeah, I travel a lot. speak at conferences. I run events through Tourpeneur. I travel to run workshops and coaching sessions and things like that. So I do a lot of that. And it tends to be heavy at the start of year and the end of the year. That’s September, October time all the way through to February, March. It’s usually that sort six month period is when it’s the busiest. And yeah, I’m going to be in Charleston actually in November for a big event called Tour Week that we’re running. But yeah, so I do travel a bit and it’s just…
Jason Elkins (43:09.776)
September, October time all the way through to February, March. It’s usually that sort six month period is when it’s the busiest. And yeah, we’re gonna be in Charleston actually in November for a week. Great, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I do travel a bit and it’s just nothing, as much as we do all these things online, and obviously going through pandemic, have to do, we can do everything, but there’s nothing better than meet people face to face and have good conversations with them and sharing a beer with them and just having those conversations, just a lot.
Chris Torres (43:24.652)
Nothing as much as we do all these things online and obviously we had the pandemic, had to do, that’s all we could do with things online. There’s nothing better than meeting people face to face and having good conversations with them, sharing a beer with them and just having those conversations because a lot can come out of them. And that’s why I love these events and doing those events and speaking at events because you’ll never get the true feeling of what someone’s feeling about their business unless you actually see the whites of their eyes and probably get them a little bit drunk and a little bit more truthful.
Jason Elkins (43:39.803)
That’s why lot of these events are doing this. You’ll never get the true feeling of what someone’s feeling about the business. Well, the video stuff is about as close as you can get, but it’s still not quite the same, right? And like you said, there’s that casual element of not feeling like you’re on a business call.
Chris Torres (43:59.448)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (44:08.164)
per se, you’re just sitting there having a beer around a group of people and you can have, you might have seven or eight people in a group and your conversation hits it off with one person because they’re like, wow, this is something I’m struggling with in my business. it starts, maybe it’s reviews. Maybe you say, well, do you mention the reviews on your website? Whatever. And the conversation can go just like it does, but it can extend into other topics and subjects. And that’s pretty cool.
Chris Torres (44:24.717)
Yep. Yep.
Jason Elkins (44:37.05)
Do your kids travel with you at all? they historically? I you mentioned your daughter is 16, so maybe she’s at the point where she…
Chris Torres (44:39.406)
Yeah, no they do, they do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no they do. They do it anytime we go on a family holiday. Portugal we go to a lot obviously because we have a family in Lisbon and Madeira. So we go to Portugal a lot. And we were in Croatia last year. First time in Croatia, absolutely loved Dubrovnik. Thought it was a stunning place. So we do travel at least one big holiday every year with them and stuff like that. but yeah, more than I did. I never did that when I was a kid. My parents couldn’t afford it at the time really to be honest.
Jason Elkins (45:07.268)
Yeah.
Chris Torres (45:07.36)
So we try to travel with them as much as possible when we can.
Jason Elkins (45:11.436)
I know as a parent, we sometimes maybe want things for our kids, but we don’t always want to say what we want for our kids because we want them to make, you know, choose their own path. So I’m just curious though, if I were to ask you, Heather, and you said, was it Kyle, your son? Yeah. you envision either one of them going the tourism route, the travel route? Would you discourage them from it, encourage them or what’s, what’s your philosophy around that?
Chris Torres (45:38.19)
No, I wouldn’t discourage them. Heather’s quite a creative as well. She’s a really good artist and stuff like that as well. So she’s probably going to go down more of a creative route. She actually likes drama and stuff like that. She says that she maybe wants to be a director. So she’s looking to go down that sort of route. My brother-in-law happens to be a film director and music video director and stuff like that. So she’s trying to learn a few things from him as well. So she’s probably going to go down that route. Kyle.
Jason Elkins (45:47.664)
of route. She actually likes drama and stuff like that. actually, she says it, maybe wants to be a director. So she’s looking to be doing that sort of route. My brother-in-law happens to be a film director and music video director. So she’s trying to learn a few things from him as well. So she’s probably going to go down that route. Kyle, Heather, Heather’s one of these people, she’s got a mature head. I’ve not got any worries about Heather.
Chris Torres (46:06.944)
Heather’s one of these people, she’s got a mature head. I’ve not got any worries about Heather. Kyle, on the other hand, I think he’s going to be like me when I was younger. I can already see it. So I think we’re going to have some issues with him going forward, be honest. All he wants to do is he wants to be a YouTuber or, and this is a God’s honest truth, he loves Lamborghinis. And he says he wants to deliver enough pizzas to buy a Lamborghini. So that’s what he wants to do.
Jason Elkins (46:13.504)
Yeah
I hear some of you, I actually hear some of me when you describe that. Definitely my son, my goodness, my son just turned 18 and yeah, he’s ambitious but kind of some out there stuff. that’s very, cool. But knowing what you know about the tourism business and stuff like that, let’s say we’re.
let’s say somebody else’s kid is listening to this. What advice would you give for somebody that’s thinking about going to tourism or what should they consider that might not be obvious to them or even marketing?
Chris Torres (47:11.79)
Tourism is a great industry to be in. People will always want to travel. So it’s one of those industries, unless something major happens in the world, but people always want to travel no matter what. They’ll always want to visit new destinations and do different things. So travel is not going away and it’s only going to grow year after year after year. It’s just where you go to and the destinations you go to may change and they change all the time and stuff like that. So if you want to go to tourism, do it. It’s a great industry.
The only thing I would say is if you’re wanting to run tours, example, try to, don’t just try to copy. There’s plenty of tours of the Vatican. There’s plenty of Rome tours of the Coliseum and things like that. Try to do something that’s different, that’s not out there. Or if you’ve got a passion, or I’ve got a passion, probably tell me my background for those that are watching the video. I’ve got a passion for movies and films and I collect film in my billiard. If there was someone who did tours to various…
Jason Elkins (47:52.08)
I would be interested in trying to something that’s a bit different from your
Chris Torres (48:10.156)
movie location sites and things like that and stuff that you maybe never really know that are there. You probably walk past all the time. Things like that I would be interested in because that’s my passion and trying to do something that’s a bit different from your generic type tours. That’s what will make you stand out and that’s what will make people want to take out those experiences rather than being the, you you do a search on Viator for road tours and about 6,000 come up and no one’s going to look through 6,000 tours. So try to do something that’s completely unique. Try to do something that’s different. And this day and age being truly unique is hard.
Jason Elkins (48:21.072)
generic type tours, that’s what will make you stand out and that’s what will make people want to take out those experiences rather than being the, you know, do a search on Viator for Roman tours and about 6,000 come up and no one’s got more than 6,000 tours. So try to do something that’s completely unique, try to do something that’s different. And this day and age, being truly unique is hard, but you can be unique if it’s true to what your passions are and what you,
Chris Torres (48:40.162)
But you can be unique if it’s true to what your passions are and what you love yourself. And if that comes across when you’re delivering those experiences, if it’s something you really love, and it’s not, as I say, just reading out stats and it’s a job basically.
Jason Elkins (48:46.608)
love yourself and if that comes across when you’re building those experiences, if it’s something you really love, it’s not as I say just reading out stats and it’s a job for itself. Do you think that there are, I should give a tourism analogy reference, maybe it’s an analogy, but like in like when I do real estate for a while, which I hated by the way, was like gouging my eyeballs out with ice picks, but I was you know, trying to keep family happy. But
But what I remembered is a lot of people would show up at all. They, know, new people showing up to do real estate and I love houses. I like houses, you know, why did you get a real estate? love houses, which I thought was weird. To be honest with you. I know we talked about flats and the great deal you got on your flat when you were young. But for me, the only thing I enjoyed about the real estate was the people part. The houses I couldn’t care less about. But it’s kind of the thing with
with tourism, where going with this is you might get people that, I want to be a back country guide because I like to be outdoors. Or I want to be, I don’t know, I could be everything from being an airline flight attendant because I like to travel or just getting into tourism because you like to travel. I’m not sure that’s enough. What do you think? are the…
Chris Torres (50:11.982)
No, it’s not enough. it’s really going to be a passion. Unless it’s something you truly want to do or you truly, sometimes you do need to just do something to pay the bills. And that’s just the nature of living the life that you live to buy a house and look after kids. And that is what happens. No, it’s the reason why I sold my agency just back in February there is because I got after 17 years of running it and I just recently turned 50. So maybe I’m going through a midlife crisis. I have no idea.
I just thought I’ve been working in marketing agencies and design agencies, et cetera, over 34 years, because when I left school at 16, and I just thought I’ve had enough. No, I’ve done my time. I’ve enjoyed doing it. I love the creative side. I’ve done all that sort of things. I still love marketing. I still love the creative side of it. I just wasn’t enjoying the running of a business and the admin and all the other things. Because although I brought more and more people in to do the certain things to grow the business and to make
Jason Elkins (50:44.528)
Wow.
Chris Torres (51:10.21)
to bring on those experts to make those SEO experts, content writers, all that sort of stuff. I first found myself being less and less involved, which was great, gave me more time with the family, but my creative outlet wasn’t being served, because I was basically doing more and more admin. So I ended up, after 17 years selling that agency, and now I’m looking at doing some hobbies, as well as doing the marketing coaching and stuff like that. I’m trying to find a balance of the family, doing hobbies, as well as…
Jason Elkins (51:19.52)
I’m trying to find the balance of the family, doing hobbies as well as…
Chris Torres (51:36.118)
still coaching and helping the businesses that I love and still being that sort of creative side. So I’m just trying to get more into the creative side and doing things. So I’m back into maybe where I started, almost starting again, but now with all that wisdom of the last 30 odd years, being able to know what to do going forward and should work out.
Jason Elkins (51:36.688)
still coaching and helping the businesses that I love and still being that sort of side. So I’m just trying to get more into the creative side and doing things. So I’m stepping back into maybe where I started, almost starting again, but now with all that wisdom over the last 30 odd years, being able to know what to do going forward. Have you put something in place to keep yourself from getting back into it? Because here’s what I’m thinking and you can tell us as much as you want, but.
Okay, you did the agency thing, you did all kinds of SEO, web design, analytics, ads, all this stuff that your team did. And you’re like, okay, I’m done with that. And now I’m going to coach people on how they can improve their marketing. And I can imagine client calls with you. Hey Chris, I need a new website. Well, okay, okay. I can do the website for you. Okay, I can help you with the Google ads. And before you know it, I can imagine.
You’ve got another agency. How do you prevent that just because your strength and your will or did the company you sold the business to you said, hey, no compete clause. I am not doing websites. All right. That’s good.
Chris Torres (52:33.868)
Not a chance.
Chris Torres (52:45.55)
Well, there is that, yes. Don’t get me wrong, there is a non-compete clause for about 18 months or something like that. So I can’t do anything like that. But it’s just because I was done with that. I was actually just asked the other day, could you help us build a website or least help us with SEO and stuff. I do get asked a lot and I just say, TMA, a tourism marketing agency, great agency I used to own, go and ask them. I do not want to be building website. I love creating the strategies.
Jason Elkins (52:59.512)
I’m sure you get asked a lot.
Chris Torres (53:11.81)
coming up with storytelling elements and giving that to the operators or the businesses that I’m helping and say, either you do this and here’s how you can implement all these things or take it to an agency and get them to implement it as well. Cause why I tend to find there’s a lot of agencies will do the absolute basics. don’t give you your, no, I would do like a 12 month plan, quite in depth detail and stuff like that and say, look, although you might not be able to do everything in this, this is what I believe it will take to grow your business. Cause I always say, and especially in today’s market,
Jason Elkins (53:27.984)
give you your, I would do like a 12 month plan, quite in depth details and stuff like that and say, look, although you might not be able to do everything in this, this is what I believe it will take to pull your business. Cause I always say, especially in today’s market is anyone who’s thinking about running a tourism business or any business for that matter. So let’s just say if you’re going to run a tour operator business, don’t start out or have the mindset of running a tour operator business. You have to have the mindset of becoming
Chris Torres (53:42.077)
is anyone who’s thinking about running a tourism business or any business for that matter. So let’s just say if you’re going to run a tour operator business, don’t start out or have the mindset of running a tour operator business. You have to have the mindset of becoming a media company just because of the amount of things that you have to put out there. Videos, content, social posts, all the stuff that’s happening with the AI. There’s so many things you need to get out there to be seen now and get through all that brand and marketing clutter that you basically have to become a marketing.
Jason Elkins (53:56.858)
because of the videos, content, social posts, all the stuff that’s happening with AI. There’s so many things you need to get out there to be seen now and get through all that brand and marketing clutter. But you basically have to become a marketing company yourself or a media company. So become a media company, have a media company mindset that just happens to sell food tours or happens to sell adventure tour, or whatever that would be. You need to have that mindset because without that in today’s world, you’re not going to be able to grow the business.
Chris Torres (54:09.518)
company yourself or a media company. So become a media company, however, have the media company mindset that just happens to sell food tours or happens to sell adventure tours or whatever that would be. You need to have that mindset because without that in today’s world, you’re not going to be able to grow the business as much as you want. And agencies should be able to help with that and things like that as well. But just make sure that they give you a strategy that allows you to become the business you want to become going forward.
Jason Elkins (54:24.72)
much you want. And they just should be able to help with that and things like that as well. But just make sure that they give you a strategy that allows you to become the business you want to become. That makes a lot of sense because I also, you because I’ve had conversations like this as well that it’s like you run across someone and they’re thinking, this is my need. I need to refresh my website. I need to get a new reservation system. I need to
have a podcast, whatever it is, they’re oftentimes by the time they meet with a freelancer or an agency, they kind of already have in their head what they need. Probably because they read so much in social media, maybe even in the Torpreneur Group.
Chris Torres (55:08.182)
They’ve seen the next shiny thing. It’s like, right, Creating new tours. They think, oh, I need to do this. My website’s not working, so I need to get a new website. And most of the time it could just be a quick fix and that’s it.
Jason Elkins (55:18.096)
Yeah, so I get it from the agency’s perspective because you mentioned some agencies don’t necessarily spend a lot of time on the strategy part. They’re maybe pretty good at implementing and maybe they’ve got become that way because most of the time when their client shows up, their client says, I want an email drip. I wanted this. And the agency is like, OK, we can do that. And they do that. But you are doing something interesting. And I know because last time I spoke with you, I went over and took a look at your website. I think we should discuss touch.
touch on this about basically coming up with a strategy plan. So what would you like our listeners to know about this cool thing that you have on your website?
Chris Torres (55:57.376)
Yes, so I’ve taken my 30 odd years of knowledge, my books and strategies that I’ve created in the past and the frameworks that I tend to follow myself. And I’ve uploaded them into ChatGPT to create like a bot as it were, or an agent. And I’ve got a web face into it. I call it the strategy builder, it’s on my website. And it’s an AI tool that shall allow you to input the tours that you want to promote, a bit of information about the business, et cetera, et cetera. And it will create you, and I can’t believe how
Jason Elkins (56:13.392)
and I’ve got a web face, I call it the strategy builder, it’s on my website and it’s an AI tool which will allow you to input the tours you want to promote, bit of information about the business, et cetera, et cetera, and it will create you, and I can’t believe how good it actually generates us to the point you shouldn’t know how much AI has changed over the last 18 months, but it will create you a 60 plus page strategy document with a 12 month strategy, strategy on ads, strategy on social media, et cetera, et cetera, following your brand.
Chris Torres (56:25.88)
could actually generate system and it just shows you how much AI has changed over the last 18 months. But it’ll create you a 60 plus page strategy document with a 12 month strategy, strategy on ads, strategy on social media, et cetera, et cetera, following your brand, your brand voice and the products, et cetera, you’re trying to experience, you’re trying to promote. It will look at all that and create using the frameworks from my book, Lookers and Typicals, and will take all that.
Jason Elkins (56:42.544)
your brand voice and the products accepted by what we’re trying to promote. We look at all that and create some of the frameworks for my book, Lookers into Bookers. It will take all that and create that strategy document for you and then give you a bit at the end to say, okay, this is a lot of information. I understand that. It’s giving you everything I think you need to do over the next 12 months. But if you’re only going to focus on certain things, here’s what to focus on in the next three months and it gives you that as well. So they could in theory then take that.
Chris Torres (56:53.388)
and create that strategy document for you. And then give you a bit at the end to say, okay, this is a lot of information. I understand that. It’s given you everything I think you need to do over the next 12 months. But if you’re only gonna focus on certain things, here’s what to focus on the next three months. And it gives you that as well at the end.
Jason Elkins (57:10.934)
either to the company you use to own that you recommend, also to, they could bring it to me. They could take it to somebody else and say, Hey, so, which is great for the, for someone like myself or someone like, you know, the, like the past you, somebody comes in and they have a reason why they want to do this and they’ve thought it out. And, and it’s, yeah, that’s, that’s, it’s pretty cool. You know, one thing that
I’ve come across is there’s so much talk about how AI and so we’re going to touch on the AI a little bit, but I think there’s a lot of people out there that have not used AI that the message they keep hearing is you can do everything with AI. You can build a free website with AI. can create a podcast with AI. can create viral content with AI. And if you haven’t actually sat down and figured out how to do any of that,
It almost sounds like it’s like no work. So when you say I took my 30 years and built this AI chatbot with chat GPT, somebody’s listening to this thinking, well, that took Chris no time whatsoever. It’s just another chat GPT thing that, you know, that why would I, I don’t even, I don’t even remember how your pricing works or plans or whatever. You can discuss that if you want, but it’s on your website.
But sometimes people think, well, this is, does it have value because it’s using AI? But, well, what’s your response? I don’t know where I’m going with this.
Chris Torres (58:47.084)
No, to be, I, I’m in a cab. I’ve been using different AI tools for many of your basis since it started really sort of coming to the fore. And there’s a lot of good tools out there, but there’s a lot of bad tools out there. think some operators probably listening to this and some other people or any business listening to this, have probably been burned by a few AI tools. Now for marketing, there’s going to be a lot that AI will do going forward. In the next 18 months, the landscape is going to change massively.
Jason Elkins (58:51.504)
using different AI tools for many of your business since it started really sort of before. And there’s a lot of good tools out there, but there’s a lot of bad tools out there. Some operators probably listen to this and some other people or any business listen to this. They’re probably being burned by a few AI tools. Now, for marketing, there’s going to be a lot that AI will do going forward. In the next 18 months, the landscape’s going to change massively. But there’s still things out there that’s more to take. There’s still, because you can trade it not well enough, but there’s still not things out there that can manage it.
Chris Torres (59:13.688)
but there’s still things out there at this moment in time. It still does okay, but not well enough. No, there’s still not things out there that can manage your ads as well as a human being. There’s still nothing out there that can build a website, a good enough website, and have it all connected to WordPress, for example. No, there’s nothing really out there that does all that, that well at this moment in time. It will come, but it’s not there yet. You still need a strong human element to give it the right prompts and do all the right things. And then you still need to do a lot of refinement.
Jason Elkins (59:21.072)
well as human being. There’s still nothing out there that can build a website, a good enough website, so it can have it all connected to WordPress like I said before. There’s nothing really out there that all that that well at this moment in time. It will come, but it’s not there yet. You still need a strong human element to give it the right prompts and do the right things, and then you still need to do a lot of refinement. It’s great at writing content, but you still need to go in and do all these things as well. Unless you’re going to spend, though I spend…
Chris Torres (59:41.006)
It’s great at writing content, but you still need to go in and refine it, fact check it, do all these things as well. Now, unless you’re gonna spend, though I spent weeks and weeks and weeks training my AI agent to learn my thought process, learn my frameworks and learn all the stuff that I do to get to a stage where I think it actually does a really good damn fine job at creating a strategy that I would create. So if you put in the time and effort, it can help you, but where AI can help a lot of operators is through automation in the background.
Jason Elkins (59:50.372)
weeks and weeks weeks training my AI agent to learn my thought process, learn my frameworks and learn all the stuff that I do to get to a stage where I think it actually does a really good damn fine job at creating a strategy that I would create. So if you put in the time and effort, it can help you, but where AI can help a lot of operators is through automation in the background, through those admin tasks. Again, to give you an example, in the past, if I was working with a business, I had say 10 staff.
Chris Torres (01:00:10.68)
through those admin tasks. Again, to give you an example, in the past, if I was working with a business, I had say 10 staff, I would send them a brand questionnaire. Each of them would have to fill out this questionnaire individually without conferring so I can get everybody’s thoughts on what the business was and what they thought the business was, et cetera, to see if there’s any disconnects and connections and likes, et cetera. I would spend a good week or two manually going through all that and figuring things out. Now I can just upload all that into AI and it tells me.
Jason Elkins (01:00:19.088)
I would send them a brand questionnaire. Each of them would have to fill out this questionnaire individually without conferring so I can get everybody’s thoughts on what the business was, what the business was, cetera, to see if there’s any disconnects and connections and likes, et cetera. I would spend a good week or two manually going through all that and figuring things out. Now I can just upload all that into AI and it tells me what everyone thinks and where’s the disconnects and the likes. So I can do that within an hour now. I we’re probably less than that to figure all that sort of stuff out.
Chris Torres (01:00:39.342)
what everyone thinks and where’s the disconnects and the likes. So I can do that within an hour now, probably less than that to figure all that sort of stuff out. So AI is great. If you can do things in the background, it’s going to speed up your own processes. So you have more time to deliver more tours or serve your customers or get in more sales and things like that. That’s a good thing. So the manual stuff, that’s what AI can really excel. But for a lot of the marketing things at this point in time,
Jason Elkins (01:00:48.08)
So AI is great if you can do things in the background that’s going to speed up your own processes. So you have more time to cover more tours or serve your customers or get more sales and things like that. That’s a good thing. That’s what AI can really excel, but for a lot of the marketing things at this point in time, there is some good ones out there, but it’s not quite, in my opinion, got to the stage where you could just forget it, leave it and let it run and do it. It’s just not. Right. It’s an interesting.
Chris Torres (01:01:05.176)
There is some good ones out there, it’s not quite got, in my opinion, quite got to the stage where you could just forget it and leave it and let it run and do its own thing, post up on social media and all that. It’s just not there yet, in my opinion.
Jason Elkins (01:01:17.488)
So people are hearing the message, build a free website in minutes, free with AI. That’s the messaging they’re getting. And then they talk to someone and say, I need a new website and that the freelancer or the agency says, well, we charge, you know, $3,000, $5,000, $7,000 for a website. And the operator is like, holy cow. thought I.
Chris Torres (01:01:23.854)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:01:43.16)
You know, if I can do it myself for free with AI, why am going to pay you three to $5,000 to do it? But I think what’s, and then so you, know, but they hire you anyway, and then you’re doing it. And, and you know, I’m going to chat GPT asking it, geez, I’m having a problem figuring out how to do a sticky frame or what a sticky thing on the website. So I’m using AI to help get me along and help me produce a better website. And then I had a client not too long ago. It’s like, he’s like,
How did you come up with this? And I said, well, I actually did some research on AI and the clients. Well, I’m not paying you to use AI. And I’m like, well, if you don’t, if you’re not paying me to use AI, you’re going to get a lot lower product because the AI is such a tool that I think what I’m saying is I feel like you can get a much better website now for $3,000 or $5,000 than you could back then because your developer, your designers using AI to take it to that next level.
It’s still taking them time. They’re still probably putting in just as much time and effort. You’re just getting much better result. Am I? What do you think?
Chris Torres (01:02:48.27)
Yeah, no, I used AI to build, not build some websites, but do things like no sticky floating buttons on a page and things like that, because it will give you the code to do it and the CSS and it will just give you all that. I’ve used it in the past myself. My agency, actually just, we used to build a lot of bespoke websites for a long, long time, back when you could charge 20 grand for a website and things like that, you just can’t get unless you’re building a bespoke working platform, is silly these days. anyway, no, we used a $80 theme. Now that’s what my agency used and it allowed us to deploy.
Jason Elkins (01:03:00.24)
Yeah.
Chris Torres (01:03:17.302)
websites quickly. The amount of money we charged was for manually migrating content and getting the website and the pages set up and things are not for the actual website build itself. It was actually getting all the content together and the pages together and making sure it was optimized and things. That is basically what you were paying for now rather than the actual website build.
Jason Elkins (01:03:30.384)
That is basically what we’re paying for now rather than that’s your website though. Right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that AI does help with some of that. They can give you some wireframes and frames. And then of course, once somebody’s built a few websites, they start to kind of develop their own little library of things so they can go a little bit quicker. anyway, Chris, we’ve discussed a lot. could keep going all day on many, different topics. And I want to be respectful of our listeners time as well.
We just gave them lot of great stuff. Chris, what else? What did I forget to ask you? What do you want to make sure that our listeners do here before we wrap up?
Chris Torres (01:04:06.222)
Yeah, that’s the last thing. Obviously I’ve got the marketing coach, but I also run a community of 20,000 tour operators called Tourpuner. We have a free Facebook group which you can search on Facebook called Tourpuner. And it’s where operators, guides, whoever can just jump on, ask advice, see the podcasts that we’re posting up. So there’s a lot of free content on there. And it’s just, although me, another guy called Peter Syme and another one called Mitch Bach, we…
Jason Elkins (01:04:17.392)
on Facebook called Turbo. And it’s where operators, guides, whoever can just jump on, ask advice, see the podcast posting up, so there’s a lot of free content on there. it’s just, although be another guy called Peter Syme.
another one called Mitch Back. We’re all partners in Tourpiner. We run it, we run events, et cetera. We’ve actually got an event happening in Charleston in November called Tour Week. So we’re running that just now. And that’s going to bring lots of different tour operators and guides together to then hopefully learn from each other and get business together by sort business development. So we’re doing that. But the community is a great place to start off with. It’s a free community. You can jump on, get advice,
Chris Torres (01:04:35.64)
we’re all partners in Tourpreneur. We run it, we run events, et cetera. We’ve actually got an event happening in Charleston in November called Tour Week. So we’re running that just now. And that’s going to bring lots of different tour operators and guides together to then hopefully learn from each other and get business together by sort of business development. So we’re doing that. But the community is a great place to start off with. It’s free community. You can jump on, get advice from it and…
Jason Elkins (01:05:04.466)
I agree. And we’re going to have the links both to, the marketing coach to your website and I’ll put in something for Troubredure as well, because I think it’s a great group. And I’ll be honest with you. You know, I, didn’t really stumble across it until fairly recently. And it was actually a guest that I had on the podcast.
Chris Torres (01:05:05.186)
That’s probably the first place to start.
Jason Elkins (01:05:27.534)
I asked him, he runs an operation in Africa. said, how did you find me? How did you connect with me? And he said, well, one of your guests, one of your previous guests had shared their episode in this Tourpreneur group. And I saw it that’s how I connected with you. And I was like, that’s pretty cool. And I went over and joined and yeah, there’s a lot of great conversations going on.
mean, there’s a lot of great resources, but I think even if you just kind of watch the feed, just the things that come up in the feed, gets the juices flowing. These conversations we’re having earlier today about, you know, reviews and OTAs and these different things, those are conversations that are happening in the group.
Chris Torres (01:06:11.18)
Yeah, and all the operators are helping each other. It’s not necessarily, you know, myself or anything jumping on. We do, and we answer questions, et cetera. But everyone’s helping each other out. It’s a great community to be in.
Jason Elkins (01:06:14.87)
Yeah. I read one this morning before we got on here, somebody asked a question about something and then five or six different operators all chimed in and it was actually about reviews. It was the person that mentioned that they had a bunch of TripAdvisor reviews, but they thought they should get some Google reviews and how do they do that without diluting the TripAdvisor reviews and all this. And yeah, five or six other operators had already jumped in.
real quickly and shared what they were doing. So if you don’t want to spend a dime on any of this stuff, at least just go join the group. Because you’ll get a lot of free support and community, which I think community is a challenge because a lot of operators work small teams or maybe one person teams. And we’ve got weird work schedules and we don’t always have colleagues sitting next to us to chat with. So anyway, I think it’s a great resource.
Chris, thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking time to come on here and share some of your story and some tips and pointers. A lot of the episodes are, know, for anybody that’s listening that’s like, hey, Jason, you’re usually talking more about tours and places and this and that. You know, this was a slightly different bent. Obviously the people that work in this industry are benefiting from it. But honestly, I think anybody that works in any industry can benefit from a lot of the conversation we were just having today.
Chris Torres (01:07:16.216)
No, that’s all.
Jason Elkins (01:07:44.474)
So thank you so much. Appreciate you being here.
Chris Torres (01:07:46.178)
No thank you Jason, appreciate you asking me on. Thanks everyone.
Jason Elkins (01:07:48.526)
Yeah, be fun. Let’s do it again sometime soon. Bye Chris.
Chris Torres (01:07:52.238)
Bye.
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