Guest Bio
Daan Oxener is the co-founder of Home of Friends Guesthouse & Community Experiences Uganda, a community-rooted guesthouse and adventure travel hub based in Kapchorwa on the slopes of Mount Elgon. Originally from the Netherlands, Daan’s path to Uganda began with an early fascination for Africa, later deepened through travel, social entrepreneurship, youth development, and sport.
Over the past seven years, Daan has worked alongside local guides, athletes, families, and community members to shape immersive travel experiences that reflect the strengths of the Mount Elgon highlands. Through Home of Friends, he helps visitors connect with the region through hiking, biking, trail running, cultural exchange, and locally led adventures that support long-term opportunities for guides, youth, women, and local families.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Daan Oxener, co-founder of Home of Friends Guesthouse & Community Experiences Uganda. Based in the highlands of eastern Uganda, Daan shares how Home of Friends has grown into more than a place to stay. It is a meeting point for travelers, runners, guides, families, and community members who want to experience the Mount Elgon region in a deeper and more personal way.
Daan talks about the unique appeal of Kapchorwa, a mountain town known for its high-altitude running culture, welcoming communities, waterfalls, remote trails, and strong traditions. It is also the home to world champion runners such as Joshua Cheptegei and Jacob Kiplimo. He explains how travelers can experience the area through multi-day treks, cultural encounters, running experiences, biking, and visits with local families who share skills such as bamboo basket weaving, farming, and honey wine making.
The conversation also follows Daan’s personal journey from the Netherlands to Uganda, including his early interest in Africa, his background in business and human resources, and the decision to leave a corporate path in search of more meaningful work. Along the way, Jason and Daan explore what it takes to build a community-based tourism enterprise in a rural setting, the importance of slowing down, and why the future of adventure travel in eastern Uganda is rooted in relationships, patience, and local strengths.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Home of Friends is both a guesthouse and a Community-rooted adventure travel hub in eastern Uganda.
- ✓ Kapchorwa, whose name literally means ‘home of friends’ in the local language is know for hospitality, sports culture, and natural beauty.
- ✓ The Mount Elgon highlands offer a blend of waterfalls, viewpoints, farms, trails, and cultural experiences.
- ✓ Daan and his team design experiences that connect visitors with local guides, families, athletes, and community members.
- ✓ The Mosopisiek Trail combines trekking through remote highlands with meaningful cultural exchange.
- ✓ Eastern Uganda offers a quieter, less-traveled alternative to the country’s better-known gorilla and safari routes.
- ✓ Many travelers are beginning to look beyond standard itineraries toward more immersive, off-the-beaten-path journeys.
- ✓ Daan’s work grew from a passion for youth development, sport, and social entrepreneurship.
- ✓ Building a rural tourism enterprise requires patience, trust, collaboration, and respect for the pace of the community.
- ✓ Home of Friends supports local opportunity by involving guides, women, youth, athletes, and families in the visitor experience.
What You’ll Find on Home of Friends Guesthouse & Community Experiences Uganda
- Community-rooted accommodation in the Mount Elgon highlands
- Guided hiking, biking, running, and trekking experiences
- Cultural encounters with local families, artisans, and farming communities
- Access to Kapchorwa’s high-altitude running culture and local athletes
- Remote trails, waterfalls, viewpoints, and rural landscapes
- Travel experiences designed to create local impact and meaningful connection
Learn more about Home of Friends Guesthouse & Community Experiences Uganda and connect with Daan at:
https://www.homeoffriends.com/explore
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.241)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today. And I’m also super excited. We’ve got a fascinating guest for you today. His name is Daan Oxener. He’s the co-founder of Home of Friends Guest House and Community Experiences in Uganda. Daan, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Daan Oxener (00:22.754)
Thank you, Jason. Great to be here.
Jason Elkins (00:25.716)
We’re going to have a fascinating conversation. spoke a few weeks ago. I think you were actually in Uganda when we spoke and and now you’re visiting family. Where are you right now?
Daan Oxener (00:35.31)
I’m right now in the east of the Netherlands, not far from the German border. And that’s where I grew up and lived up to 18 years of age.
Jason Elkins (00:42.461)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (00:47.133)
We’re gonna get really deep into how you got from, I was gonna say where you were, but I guess where you are right now, to where you are in life, which obviously is gonna involve discussions of Uganda and all that stuff. Let’s do this. Before we get too deep into that, let’s give our listeners kind of the, I don’t know, 60 second, we can go as long as we want, but maybe the 60 second elevator pitch on.
Daan Oxener (00:56.622)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:13.681)
What is home of friends, guest house, and community experiences? What do you guys do? How would you describe that to people?
Daan Oxener (01:21.23)
Yeah, thank you. That’s a good question to start with. Home of Friends Guest House and Community Experiences is a hub for community-based adventure travel on the slopes of Mount Elgon in the eastern… Again, I landed also in the eastern part of Uganda, In the eastern part of Uganda.
Jason Elkins (01:43.292)
you
Daan Oxener (01:49.262)
And we offer a wide variety of adventure experiences, hiking, biking, running. And we’ve also developed cultural experiences over the years. Sometimes these are separate activities and sometimes they are blended together. Yeah, it’s less than a minute.
Jason Elkins (02:11.988)
What do mean by when you say sometimes they’re separate activities and then sometimes they’re blended together? Help me get a better understanding of what you’re saying.
Daan Oxener (02:20.852)
I was actually meaning, for example, our Mosopisiek Trail that’s a two or three day trekking through the remote highlands of Mount Elgon. That’s where the adventure traveler both experiences the incredible nature, the waterfalls, the viewpoints, the farmlands, and also experiences the culture of an indigenous community.
For example through bamboo basket weaving with a woman in that village or learning how to farm or how to make a honey wine which is popular in that area.
Jason Elkins (03:04.978)
Okay, very, cool. I mean, obviously the guest house part was pretty easy and I want to expand on that a little bit. And then we’ll discuss kind of how it all got, how it all came about. But so what I hear you saying is we’ve got a cool guest house. People come stay with us and then we go do all these different types of activities and adventures that you were just discussing. Is that pretty much summarize it?
Daan Oxener (03:29.144)
That’s the Yeah.
Jason Elkins (03:29.821)
Probably oversimplifies it, I get that. Definitely oversimplifies it, I’m sure. Do all of your guests stay at the guest house? I guess the question is, if somebody’s in the area staying at another place, do you set up tours for them as well? Or is it kind of a package deal where you stay at the guest house and we go do these other activities? How does that work?
Daan Oxener (03:43.948)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (03:54.458)
In 80 % of the cases our guests stay in our rooms. And actually we are getting more inquiries from travelers who may be staying in the nearby Sepe Falls area that is a known hotspot for tourism and who may want to one of our community experiences. maybe 80-20 there.
Jason Elkins (04:19.059)
Okay, very cool. And where are most of your guests from?
Daan Oxener (04:23.918)
Majority from north western Europe and then also visitors from South America, United States, several countries in Asia, sometimes Australia and expats from the capital in Uganda, Kampala or the source of the river Nile, Jinja.
Jason Elkins (04:28.755)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (04:53.966)
Yeah, so a wide range of backgrounds of our guests.
Jason Elkins (04:59.751)
Let’s I guess because I’m more familiar with maybe the US market, the typical US guest that comes to Uganda. What is the major draw? And I’m I’m I’m guessing what you might say. But what do people in the US think about Uganda when they think I want to go to Uganda to do what?
Daan Oxener (05:19.212)
Yeah, that’s 100 % gorillas. So… Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (05:21.747)
I’m happy you said that because that’s exactly what I was thinking. OK, do the year is that that way for people from Australia, Northwestern Europe as well? I you mentioned several other places. that pretty consistent across the board that that’s what people think they should go to Uganda for?
Daan Oxener (05:43.662)
Yeah, to a slightly lesser extent for those countries. I’ve learned that… Yeah, I’ve learned that the definition of adventure travel for the US visitors is often going from park to park and from gorilla to chimpanzee and being driven around. And the definition in other countries is sometimes a little bit more…
Jason Elkins (05:49.181)
Why is that?
Do you think?
Jason Elkins (06:06.459)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (06:13.6)
off the beaten track, maybe sometimes a self-drive. And that automatically means that more people will also come to the remote area that we are in and the undiscovered east and northern east of Uganda.
Jason Elkins (06:29.597)
Do you, you willing to have a philosophical conversation for what that, why that is that the U S market is different? Let’s skip that. Okay. You’re a smart man. Well,
Daan Oxener (06:36.98)
Let’s skip that part, Jason.
Jason Elkins (06:45.587)
It is interesting. mean, I have some of my own theories, but I definitely I’ll touch on that. think Europeans are very fortunate in the sense that they grow up in a much more multicultural environment. So going to a different country or a place where they speak different languages, I think is just generally more comfortable for a lot of a lot of Europeans. And then I often think of like Australians and Kiwis, they.
Daan Oxener (06:56.098)
Yeah? Alright.
Daan Oxener (07:03.074)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (07:09.875)
I think they all leave at some point in their life and go travel. It’s just because they’re so isolated. Where in the US we have a pretty cool mix of things and you don’t really have to leave if you don’t want to. But all right. Yeah, very cool. OK, so you do not. I believe what I heard you say is your area is not known for gorillas or Champagne chimpanzees. Is that right?
Daan Oxener (07:13.388)
Yeah, that’s in their nature. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (07:21.816)
Right. Interesting.
Daan Oxener (07:32.128)
No, certainly not. No. There is a nearby game reserve which will likely be upgraded to a national park within the next few years. It’s called Pia Nupe and that’s where…
antelopes, giraffes and various other wildlife is being found. Now our area is known for high altitude running and in combination with waterfalls and a culture that’s pretty much intact. So that’s also the unique thing about the whole east of Uganda that they are still
Jason Elkins (08:00.914)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (08:18.006)
Yeah, traditional cultures, interesting experiences, people live in them in the more…
Yeah, original, authentic way, is that the right word?
Jason Elkins (08:27.079)
Yeah, yeah, Is that because you don’t have gorillas and chimpanzees in that area? the tourism, I just wonder about the tourism. was it the other areas are more popular with tourism or have been in the past? So maybe some of the communities were more influenced by outsiders? Or am I totally off?
Daan Oxener (08:34.242)
Who knows? Who knows?
Daan Oxener (08:48.206)
Yeah, possibly. And investments in road network and tourism in general has only come maybe for 10, 15 years now in our part of the country. Whilst the west of Uganda is in that sense more developed and more known for a longer time.
Jason Elkins (09:10.887)
I’m so anxious to get to the part where you tell me how you found this place, why you ended up there. before we get there though, I just want to dig a little deeper. Is it typical your guests, typical, you decide how to answer this question. But I guess the question is, do most of your guests come and do.
Daan Oxener (09:17.848)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (09:35.345)
Western Uganda as well and then come spend some time with you or is it people that have already been to Uganda in the past that come to your area or what does it typically look like?
Daan Oxener (09:46.314)
Five, six years ago, it would be that 80 % of our visitors does the complete Uganda loop, including those highlights in the West. Maybe Jinja, where there’s rafting, and then includes one or more hotspots in our area. But it has…
developed over the years and we see the trends that people are looking for immersive off the beaten track experiences. So yeah, we see an increase of people who just focus on the north eastern loop and then it’s still likely to be ginger come to our Kapchowa slash CP Falls area and then proceed towards the Karamoja
the Karamoja lands with Kideppo. That’s a more remote and beautiful national park in the far north of the country, close to the South Sudan border.
Jason Elkins (10:53.095)
Okay. You mentioned ginger a few times. I think I heard you say that’s kind of the headwaters of the, of the Nile. that. Tell, tell us more about, tell me more about that. Cause please.
Daan Oxener (11:03.576)
Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, this is where, according to the history books, Spiek found the source of the Nile in 1862. There’s still debate we could do, but let’s not get off track about the exact source. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Jason Elkins (11:24.563)
Stay away from politics. We don’t need to talk about that. anyway, but tell me more about ginger anyway.
Daan Oxener (11:33.639)
Ginger’s known for a few decades now for…
water activities on the Nile. So rafting, kayaking, tubing. It used to have the fastest rapids in Africa. A few years ago we got one or two dams that have been built in the Nile. the speed of the waters has slightly reduced, but it’s still a popular place for water.
Sports lovers.
Jason Elkins (12:11.091)
Is ginger a region? it the name of the river there? Is it a park? What is it when you say ginger? What does that mean?
Daan Oxener (12:19.404)
Yeah, Vintja is the name of the town along the banks of River Nile. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:23.45)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (12:27.923)
All right, very, cool. You also mentioned running, high altitude running. was, I am kind of aware of that, but not enough. I wanna learn more and I don’t want our listeners to think, this is, you only go there if you wanna do high altitude running, because I get that clear that that’s not the case. But there’s a lot of people that do go there because of high altitude running, which to me, as someone who hasn’t run in 20 years, I don’t quite understand it.
Daan Oxener (12:35.854)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (12:54.658)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:56.051)
But I’m looking at you, you got a shirt on. You wanted to show your shirt to me earlier. What does your shirt say?
Daan Oxener (13:00.602)
yeah, let’s go then. Here we go. Capchora. So Capchora is the name of the mountain settlement, the settlement, the little town where we are based. And actually it means in the local language, home of friends. There we go. Yeah. And…
Jason Elkins (13:05.063)
Run. Okay.
Jason Elkins (13:21.587)
okay. Well, I’m happy we came here. Okay. All right.
Daan Oxener (13:28.714)
I came in the area the first time in 2014 and that was just a few days after our champion, one of our champions, long distance running, Joshua Cheptegay had won gold in the Junior World Championships in Eugene. So there’s a US link here. It was in early August. We have quite many rain.
Jason Elkins (13:50.791)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (13:56.844)
rainy season. So I can remember it was raining a lot that day. We were doing an exploration hike and I had the honor and the luck to be invited at Joshua’s home in his village, just five kilometers higher up the mountain. And I learned that day that the hospitality in the area was just amazing.
I I had some challenges later because I got chapatis, that’s Ugandan pancake and African tea which can produce some gases, you know. And I was new in the area so I couldn’t refuse. That was a day that inspired me later, two years later.
Jason Elkins (14:38.803)
And at altitude I hear that can be worse.
Daan Oxener (14:54.382)
on the name for our guest house.
Jason Elkins (14:58.023)
I think we’re at the point we better start discussing how you got from where you are to where you are. You know what I mean? Where you were to where you are. So let’s go back. Daan, how far back do we need to go to kind of understand why this European guy ended up running this guest house and operation in Uganda? How far back should we go?
Daan Oxener (15:05.9)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (15:16.131)
Yeah.
Yeah, 2012. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (15:21.541)
Okay, so 2012, how old were you in 2012?
Daan Oxener (15:26.286)
28 years? Yeah.
Jason Elkins (15:28.887)
Let’s go further. Come on. I suspect something something happened before 2012 2012 was probably a pivotal moment. I get that we’re going to come back to that. But when you were growing up when you were like if I went to you when you were 14 15 years old and said Daan what do you want to do when you grow up? What were what were your thoughts? Do you remember?
Daan Oxener (15:37.292)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (15:43.234)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (15:47.688)
I wanted to become a professional tennis player actually. By then I was training almost every day. But around that age I also learned that I would not become the next Roger Federer. So yeah, I was also starting to look at other options in life.
Jason Elkins (15:51.475)
Jason Elkins (15:55.155)
Okay, wow.
Jason Elkins (16:00.883)
Okay, so why tennis?
Yeah, where did tennis come from? That’s interesting.
Daan Oxener (16:10.766)
Good question. Yeah, actually from a family and parents who had played my both both of my parents were into ball sports. They didn’t get full opportunities when they were young, especially my father. So there was a lot of encouragement when I was six, seven years to try out different sports and I had to choose. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (16:35.709)
You used the word encouragement. I like that. You used that. Was that a specific choice as opposed to pressure?
Daan Oxener (16:44.526)
Jason Elkins (16:44.723)
Was it pressure or encouragement? I’m just curious.
Daan Oxener (16:48.194)
No, was, yeah, no, no, no. My parents are definitely not those type of parents that we sometimes see also along football pitches, et cetera. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (16:57.953)
huh, okay.
Did you have opportunities to travel, explore the world? Was that even on your radar?
Daan Oxener (17:08.59)
By then, maybe I started thinking about it. It came a little bit later in my students’ time that I felt the urge to discover, that was by then West Africa. Did an internship there in Togo for 10 weeks.
Jason Elkins (17:28.843)
wow.
Daan Oxener (17:31.244)
But before moving to Uganda…
Jason Elkins (17:31.417)
Okay, so what, what, got you started? That’s cause you said that you started to get in interested. What, what was the pivotal moment? mean, you didn’t just automatically just go to Togo for the hell of it. I mean, something, something inspired you. So what was going on at that time?
Daan Oxener (17:47.054)
It’s hard for me to point it out rationally. It’s more of an intuition and feeling that based on what I had seen, maybe also a presentation from the parents of a friend when I was only six years old. Yeah, something is coming up. Who lived in… Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re getting somewhere.
Jason Elkins (18:07.961)
okay. That’s why I ask these questions, Okay, six years old. See, we went from 28 to six, so we’re doing good. All right, what? Very cool. So you saw a presentation, tell me about that, what you remember.
Daan Oxener (18:17.966)
Yeah, 1990, yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (18:27.118)
They had lived in Africa, so by then we called them DIA projectors. Is that the same word you use? These manual projectors that used to be there in the 80s and 90s to sprite projectors.
Jason Elkins (18:37.33)
the slide.
Jason Elkins (18:40.989)
the slide projectors where you had the carousel with all the little plastic things that yeah, yeah. There’s some people listening to this that are gonna have no idea what we’re talking about. But I know what you’re talking about. okay, so.
Daan Oxener (18:47.636)
Exactly,
And for some reason that fascinated me, the colors I saw and the people I saw and the smiles.
I guess that was a trigger, a first early trigger.
Jason Elkins (19:09.523)
Yeah, I get that. Do you happen to remember, was it just Africa in general or was there West Africa or a particular place that they had been that, or do you even remember as just Africa to you at that
Daan Oxener (19:22.498)
By then it was Africa in general for me. But sub-Saharan Africa I would say, yeah.
Jason Elkins (19:25.115)
I’m sure. Yeah. Yeah.
There’s only one Africa for most people in the US. Which we can discuss as well. But anyway, alright, so you saw those those images and obviously, yeah, okay, that’s, that’s very cool. And now, now fast forward to when you decided you’re not going to be Roger Federer. And something was going on in school and you ended up in Togo. So what what was going on in school?
Daan Oxener (19:34.57)
I know, yeah.
Daan Oxener (19:48.653)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (19:56.008)
Hmm now I have to dig a little bit into my memory
Yeah, maybe it relates to what I said before, the urge to explore and to learn about a completely different place. Yeah, and by then, there’s also that pragmatic reason that’s there for a lot of people actually, is to add that experience to your CV, right? Before you start sending out your applications on the job market after graduation. So, yeah.
Jason Elkins (20:12.787)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (20:33.127)
What were you studying?
Daan Oxener (20:35.296)
Business Administration. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (20:37.267)
okay, all right. Okay.
Business Administration, so you, yeah, that make, and again, that’s a, I don’t wanna say a European thing, I don’t wanna go into the stereotypes, but as I was saying earlier, I think things just maybe feel closer to Europeans, I don’t know, so it’s, you know, going to Africa to work, build something up on your CV is probably, just seems a little bit more, yeah, that makes sense. All right, very cool, and when you were studying business,
Daan Oxener (20:57.358)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (21:10.067)
Because you went to do this to build up your CV, you’re studying business administration, what kind of business administration did you want to do? When you talked about sending out applications, what types of places were you sending them out to, or what kind of work were you wanting to do?
Daan Oxener (21:24.494)
On the one hand, it was still broad. So I knew I wanted to get to a place where I could learn a lot. I was aware enough to know that business administration is quite abstract in university. I did choose HRM for my masters. So it did get me into the direction. Yes, correct. Yeah. So, and I had always enjoyed…
Jason Elkins (21:45.917)
So human resources, HRM, human resources, okay.
Daan Oxener (21:53.518)
from those early moments in my youth of being on the tennis court, I was actually not a very individual player. I was flourishing and getting happy when it was the yearly annual competition with a team and I could coach and I could encourage. There’s the word again. Maybe that also explains why it got me into the Masters.
Jason Elkins (22:12.253)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (22:23.018)
thesis direction of human resources and organizational psychology. Eventually I applied for a traineeship with a consultancy company in the public sector. And fast forward a few years later I was working as an education consultant.
Jason Elkins (22:47.891)
Was your first trip then to Africa, that the time in Togo? said it was, did you say 10 week or something like that? Okay, how old were you?
Daan Oxener (22:56.439)
Yeah.
Yeah, that was in between the bachelor’s and the master’s periods in between. So I was 23, 24.
Jason Elkins (23:04.615)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (23:08.679)
Okay, because the question I was going to ask you is what did your parents think of that? Were they supportive of that? Did you get pushback from them? But you were in your 20s as opposed to, know, sometimes people go do a year abroad when they’re 16 or 17 or that type of thing. So all right. But what did your so your parents, were they supportive of you going to Togo?
Daan Oxener (23:21.772)
Yeah, that was not a big deal.
Daan Oxener (23:29.142)
Yeah, absolutely. They enjoyed it very much. There’s always a little tension, I think, in general.
Jason Elkins (23:36.167)
Wait, wait, wait, they enjoyed it. They enjoyed you not being in the house. They weren’t with you, were they? mean, what do you?
Daan Oxener (23:41.038)
I already left the house already earlier.
Jason Elkins (23:44.883)
That’s well that’s you we won’t talk about that but yeah okay all right very very cool and what was your what was your impression like what was that like for you?
Daan Oxener (23:50.508)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (24:03.52)
Energy is the first word that pops up.
Jason Elkins (24:05.595)
Mm hmm. Okay.
Daan Oxener (24:10.37)
language barrier, form a French colony and I had French in my high school but I of course didn’t learn how to speak.
Jason Elkins (24:22.446)
Yeah, I can really, I took French in high school as well and I remember when I went to France, I was like, you know, I was 16, 17 and it was like, oh, this is gonna be amazing. And I quickly realized, yeah, they weren’t impressed.
Daan Oxener (24:26.979)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (24:31.444)
Yeah, yeah. And the heat. lost, I remember losing 10 kilos and that’s where my parents actually got a little worried in the first few weeks because of sweating in the night as well. But yeah.
Jason Elkins (24:42.108)
OK.
Jason Elkins (24:48.829)
Wow. And what were you doing there? What was like your purpose, your role, or what was your daily, you know, what was going on?
Daan Oxener (24:57.772)
It was part of an international student organization called Isaac. So I was helping students to develop business plans.
Jason Elkins (25:11.581)
These are local, you were helping local students develop business plans or other traveler, what do you mean?
Daan Oxener (25:17.186)
No, exactly. Students from the University of Lomé, the capital there.
students in entrepreneurship.
So Daan, while you were in Togo, was there a moment that you remember thinking, yeah, I’m definitely gonna be coming back to Africa. I’m gonna be living in Africa or had that even crossed your mind at that
Daan Oxener (31:10.297)
You
Daan Oxener (31:14.223)
Great. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (31:29.711)
No, actually it didn’t. Not yet until that year of 2012, I mentioned earlier.
Jason Elkins (31:36.433)
Okay, what happened at, well, before we get to 2012, anything happened between Togo and 2012 that you think was a big influence? Or should we just jump right to 2012? All right, cool, I know you want to. Tell me about 2012, Daan.
Daan Oxener (31:48.409)
Let’s jump to 2012. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, so I was working at the consultancy company for three years by then. I remember standing in the elevator together with the CEO, big company, 1200 people. I can’t exactly remember what we shared, but there was a moment where I felt like this doesn’t connect. And at the same time, I was
I in my job. I had survived some huge layoff after the economic crisis those years after. I was working together with lot of different consultants, seniors, so I could learn a lot. So satisfied, but feeling inside that there was something more meaningful to chase in life.
Jason Elkins (32:46.599)
So something happened on the elevator and you don’t want to go into details. But you remember what it was. But we don’t need to talk about that. I get that. I was working for a company that had gone through, I’m not going to share too many details either, but I had gone through some difficult times and I remember something that a very senior leader in the company said about layoffs.
Daan Oxener (32:50.391)
No.
Daan Oxener (33:14.883)
Right.
Jason Elkins (33:16.069)
It was like, Okay, this just doesn’t, something doesn’t feel right here because, you know, I knew lot of the people that were laid off and it yeah, it can be a tough thing. All right, so you decided this is not my place. how did, what actions did you take? What did that look like?
Daan Oxener (33:21.475)
Not my place anymore.
Daan Oxener (33:34.755)
Yeah, I knew that I wanted to do something with youth and sports. I had experienced myself in my youth how it helped me as a shy boy from a remote area in the Netherlands to connect with new people, to develop my talents, but also to develop other skills that come along with it.
Yeah, so I started sharing with people in my hometown by then Utrecht and actually exploring, talking to a lot of people and developing an idea for sports for development projects. I didn’t know by then exactly where that would be and certainly not how. But I was just this drive.
Jason Elkins (34:25.011)
Did you get people, because what it sounds like is, I was successful doing well in the corporate world, and now I’m starting to talk about, you know, I think my purpose is to develop younger kids in sports, and maybe I’ll walk away from this paycheck and go start something somewhere. Did you get pushback or people thinking you were crazy? What was that like?
Daan Oxener (34:50.895)
Yes, I think many, I was in a group of young professionals and quite intense training program and good colleagues actually. yeah, I think by then quite many of them later that changed were in that red race that I consciously tried to escape.
Jason Elkins (34:57.331)
Huh?
Jason Elkins (35:19.431)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (35:21.071)
It was a mix. Some people understood it and gave me new connections in that direction and others probably still don’t understand.
Jason Elkins (35:33.945)
Or I’m sure there’s a handful that did not understand at the time But this was a while ago and now they’ve probably experienced more life and they’re looking at you like Daan, man You’re you’re the smart guy. Look at you Live living the dream, but yeah, all right Okay, so you started so anyway, you started asking around creating, you know figuring out how you were gonna do that how long Did it take what just tell me more about that? What did that progression look like?
Daan Oxener (35:47.639)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (36:03.331)
Yeah, actually there were two parallel processes there. In the two years before I decided to quit my job, is exploring what I’ve just shared and developing the idea. And the other bigger one is to collect the courage to jump. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (36:24.689)
Yeah. So how long did it take you to collect the courage to jump?
Daan Oxener (36:30.671)
That’s about two years.
Jason Elkins (36:33.102)
Okay, what advice do you give your younger self if you could go back and look at Daan when he is one month into that two year process? What advice would you have given him?
Daan Oxener (36:45.775)
Think about how to sustain yourself financially in the first years after making the jump.
Jason Elkins (37:00.467)
Okay. But presumably that’s what you were thinking at the time and that might be part of why it took two years was how am I gonna sustain? So it sounds like you were already thinking about that. About how I’m gonna sustain it.
Daan Oxener (37:14.125)
Yeah, it’s of course a bit double, because on the other hand, would I have ever jumped when I knew it would become so challenging as well in the first years. So, yeah.
Jason Elkins (37:32.986)
Yeah, I asked someone a similar question not too long ago and she responded, I said, what would you tell your younger self when you were getting, when you had this idea of your start of starting your business? And she literally just said, get a job. Sounds like that’s my family’s told me that a few times as well as I’ve endeavored to start new things. So, all right, I get that. Was there.
Daan Oxener (37:48.239)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (37:57.283)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (38:01.223)
But looking back, is there any part of you that just wished you would have gone quicker and just said, screw it, I’m not going to wait until I have financial sustainability? you feel like you waited too long? I guess is what I’m asking. Do you wish you would have jumped quick?
Daan Oxener (38:17.135)
Not really.
Jason Elkins (38:20.401)
Or slower. Do you wish you would have jumped slower?
Daan Oxener (38:22.755)
Hmm, good question. No, life unfolds in a certain way and it comes along with… No, that’s how I’ve experienced it and yeah, staying with… Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (38:30.513)
It worked. Yep.
Jason Elkins (38:36.487)
Yeah, so easy to look back and say, well, you know, I could have, should have, would have whatever we did. We did what we did. All right. So were you.
Were there people in your life that were seriously impacted by you? This is my way of asking you, were you in a relationship? Was there somebody in your life that was, you know, supporting this decision or fighting against it or what was going on personally on that level?
Daan Oxener (39:04.173)
Yeah, I wasn’t in a serious relationship by then.
Jason Elkins (39:11.303)
That makes it easier. It’s a little different when you got a wife and two kids and you’re saying I want to go coach kids to play soccer and running. All right. Okay. So, so what, what did you do when you jumped? Tell, tell me what that was. That was like, and what did you actually do? What did jumping look like to you?
Daan Oxener (39:12.461)
makes it definitely easier. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Bye bye. Yeah.
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (39:34.649)
Yeah, the jump was a little bit less rough, I can say. Smooth, actually, because of an old friend from high school who was organizing a program for new social entrepreneurs in Kampala, the capital of Uganda. And that was a one-month program that opened a lot of doors. yeah, there was this team setting where we were helping each other to develop our project ideas.
Jason Elkins (39:51.859)
okay.
Daan Oxener (40:04.823)
So yeah, that.
Jason Elkins (40:06.375)
And were these mostly Europeans or were there Ugandans there as well or?
Daan Oxener (40:10.351)
Yeah, mixed 50-50 Europeans, Dutch people actually, with Ugandans from the capital. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (40:13.128)
Cool.
Jason Elkins (40:17.363)
Okay, was there something that happened in that month that very clearly led to what you’re doing now?
Daan Oxener (40:25.677)
Yeah, opportunity with a sports university near Kampala to work as a linking pin between university and community sports coaches to organize events for youth, to develop training programs for the coaches. Yeah, that gave me really the opportunity to also live in the community and
in this case a student community which has its specific characteristics. yeah, that’s where I actually met a sports science student from Kapchowa. So eventually he took me to his home area, highly passionate about sports potential and the beauty of his place. Yeah, and the rest is history.
Jason Elkins (40:58.493)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (41:03.367)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (41:24.275)
Was this opportunity, none of my business, but I ask questions, this is what I do. Was this kind of a paid opportunity or was this just getting paid by making a lot of connections and maybe the cost of living was low? I don’t know, what was that like?
Daan Oxener (41:28.644)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (41:39.757)
Yeah, it was a pro bono arrangement with free accommodation and free meals.
Jason Elkins (41:43.025)
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Jason Elkins (41:48.509)
Well, that’s good.
Daan Oxener (41:50.359)
And a driver in transport. was actually a good other benefit.
Jason Elkins (41:53.403)
yeah, alright.
cool so then what
Daan Oxener (42:03.609)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (42:05.075)
Well, I was just saying, so then, so you got up there, you’re kind of doing all this pro bono is the word you used. How did you end up turning that into the business now with, you know, home or friends, guest house and community experiences? How did, how did you take it? Cause like when you got there, did you just know this is the place and I’m going to hang out here and start this. Okay.
Daan Oxener (42:26.381)
No, I didn’t. No, I first stayed in a hotel in Captura Town for five, six months in total. I was still traveling back and forth between Campara where I had another, again, not a fully, maybe semi-paid job. And yeah, after a while, I saw my savings money.
Jason Elkins (42:45.66)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (42:53.251)
declining and I was looking for a house to rent. For me to sleep and to eat, but also to have meetings with our community sports coaches because we had started that youth project by then. And that was on a piece of land with old fence and a few cows, chicken maybe. And yeah, one house.
where I stayed for about one year until I shared with the owner of the place who is now my business partner. He liked my business plan for a place where sports lovers would meet and learn from each other, inspire each other. He had the money and I had the connections and the ideas.
and that turned out to be a match and is still a match up to today. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (43:56.967)
All right, so that property that you’re just talking about is where the guest house is now. I take it, I don’t want to, okay, all right. What has changed, like your idea of a place where sports lovers can come together and community and all that stuff, has that changed or do you still feel like that’s kind of what you’re doing?
Daan Oxener (44:01.269)
Exactly. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (44:18.031)
Yeah, that’s what we are doing. maybe not on a daily basis because the types of guests we get, it varies. But there lot of moments where we even have these interactions between the running champions from our small community and they spontaneously meet with their fans. yeah, those are moments where it can just be a selfie, but sometimes…
Jason Elkins (44:20.082)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (44:45.945)
There’s a little bit more of interaction and there’s a collaboration coming out of it.
Jason Elkins (44:51.419)
It sounds like, and maybe you’re like, duh, Jason, I’ve tried to explain this, but it sounds like a mix between a community center and a hospitality, tourism. It’s like an interesting mix of things, which I’m sure is exactly what you’re trying to tell me, right?
Daan Oxener (45:09.293)
Yeah, yeah. And also not a typical lodge in the sense that there’s a mix of, I guess, from the town, from the villages around and international. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (45:25.011)
That’s very, very cool. Do you feel like your guests kind of get that before they show up or is it just like they don’t know what they don’t know and then they get there and they realize that this is a whole different thing than what they expected or what are your thoughts?
Daan Oxener (45:39.663)
You were referring back to meeting these runners?
Jason Elkins (45:44.83)
Well, I’m just talking about your guests, like the people that come and stay with you, maybe from Europe or the US, do they kind of already get this interesting mix of community center and hospitality and activity base, or do they just kind of walk into it blind and then they get there and like, wow, this is not what I expected. I mean, what’s your experience with that?
Daan Oxener (45:52.345)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (45:59.631)
Alright.
Daan Oxener (46:08.365)
Yeah, it’s a real mix. we do have people even come to stay for longer and they have already planned with us to engage with the community and to book different experiences. And sometimes, we call them impact volunteers. So that’s for longer periods and people really come to train our guides, for example, on a specific topic. And then there’s also a whole bunch of
Jason Elkins (46:29.139)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (46:39.023)
guests who may have booked via a tour operator and there’s already an itinerary and activities planned to the waterfalls. Then it turns out to be a surprise to them. Or that link is not being made because we know we have travelers who go faster and travelers who go slower.
Jason Elkins (46:49.96)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:06.003)
All right, very, cool. What was the, in the beginning, what was the hardest part? mean, well, you mentioned you’re dwindling savings. get that. But maybe as far as just culturally or just being in a place, you know, pretty remote. mean, what was, what were the biggest challenges for you either personally, emotionally, business wise?
Daan Oxener (47:29.379)
Yeah, two things spring into mind, expectation levels and collaboration.
Jason Elkins (47:37.107)
Okay, when you say expectation levels, are you talking about your expectation levels?
Daan Oxener (47:41.185)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I remember a metaphor being used by a colleague in an online leadership training in 2015. I was explaining my plans in the early stages and he described a situation with two horses, Daan in the middle, trying to…
keep them both on track. But one horse was much faster than the other. So yeah, as much as I did my research and I took five months to learn the language to connect with the people in the community where we started the youth projects, I had this idea about a sport for development project and
Jason Elkins (48:07.794)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (48:32.495)
For example, we introduced many sports, but after a months, because of the strong running culture, everyone was back into the long distance running. So I had to learn to slow down and to tap more into the existing strength of the community in the running, the lifestyle, in the healthy lifestyle of the place.
Jason Elkins (49:00.979)
It’s, I’m sure, I’m sure you, you’ve thought this out and I’m not surprised you, when I say this, but what I just hear is it’s a very interesting thing because we’re talking about speed. You’re saying I need to slow down and almost the same sentence that you’re saying they just want to run. It’s like, Oh, I told you cause, cause if we just set aside the running part, you know, culturally, think, okay, you’re from. Okay. You know, you’re.
Daan Oxener (49:20.001)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (49:30.555)
European European guy and an African nation where probably the pace of life and just Development just the way things go. I would imagine is very different So I can see what you say well I need to slow down but then you’re talking about they like to run a lot it’s it’s I don’t know it’s it’s Yeah, it’s a it’s kind of Anyway
Daan Oxener (49:49.581)
Yeah, there’s a paradox there. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (49:58.483)
All right, so that was a big one was just your maybe your expectations of okay We can get this building project done. It should only take us three months, right? There’s I’m just guessing but then the reality of it is that things don’t work that way I’ve lived in Latin America long enough. have similar things going on here and I and I managed to lodge in Belize and The the staff there were always on it
Daan Oxener (50:14.659)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (50:23.569)
way different time schedule than I was on. It was really hard to adapt to that. But I also respected that about them. It was part of what I loved about the culture. And it was like, no, this is what’s more important right now. We’re gonna spend some time talking and BSing and doing something interesting instead of, you know, go work on the tractor to get fixed or whatever, you know, so yeah. All right, very cool.
Daan Oxener (50:32.132)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (50:37.4)
Yeah, yeah,
Daan Oxener (50:46.189)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (50:51.485)
Did you have other Europeans around you in the beginning at all or did you struggle with isolation or was that a challenge?
Daan Oxener (50:59.907)
In the first period of the youth sports project there were no other Mzungus as we call them East Africa, foreigners around. And actually how the guesthouse started was also with the second Mzungu in the area, the coach of several of the running champions, fellow Dutch, who came in 2017.
Jason Elkins (51:07.731)
Mm-hmm.
Daan Oxener (51:29.839)
to build a team around the guy I’ve already mentioned, Joshua Cheptegay, and who stayed… Remember, there was one building at the start, two under one roof, two family houses. He was staying next door for two years before he found his own place.
Jason Elkins (51:35.175)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (51:45.328)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, was that, I mean, you have a personal relationship with it. We don’t need to go into too many details, but for you, just was it, was it exciting to have another, you said mazungo? That’s, what’s the word?
Daan Oxener (51:53.519)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (52:00.813)
Yeah, Muzungu.
Jason Elkins (52:03.091)
Mzungu, okay. Was that exciting? I think it would be for me sometimes.
Daan Oxener (52:06.607)
Yeah, definitely to share your inspiration and your challenges. But the challenges can also be that much that doesn’t always help, right? One way or the other, you have to find your way to build your collaboration in the community.
Jason Elkins (52:17.373)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (52:33.491)
Do you remember a moment when you felt like you’d been there long enough that the community started to see you as just a regular staple of the community as opposed to an outsider?
Daan Oxener (52:46.735)
To a certain extent. No, never fully for sure. And that comes back to expectation levels, what I’ve mentioned before. As a Muzungu, you are a walking wallet. Some of my community sports coaches thought that there was a…
Jason Elkins (52:50.277)
Or maybe that has an app. I don’t know. You tell me. I don’t know what it’s like living there.
Daan Oxener (53:11.599)
a huge head office in the Netherlands behind our initiative, yet there were only two friends who voluntarily helped in their free time, maybe one hour a week to at least get a few donations in to support it. So, yeah.
Jason Elkins (53:21.075)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (53:28.476)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (53:34.638)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (53:35.795)
What’s the biggest struggle now?
Daan Oxener (53:39.619)
Hmm
I have to think about that because actually also after a few years, obviously around COVID and a few years after, it was also staying with a lot of discomfort in the sense of it. We are not in the area that naturally gets a huge flow of tourists. So it is tight. But we are now in a period where things… I’m really proud that we’ve…
We’ve taken our time to build things slow but sure, which I came to believe it might be the only way that works in the rural context. So it’s hard to think of a challenge right now.
Jason Elkins (54:33.361)
If I’m curious if if you had access to a pretty good marketing budget and you wanted to bring more people into your community would your goal be to get more people to visit Uganda or would it be to get a bigger percentage of the people already visiting Uganda to your area. I know that they both would move the needle. But what do you think like if you could only choose one we’re going to promote Uganda.
Daan Oxener (54:33.711)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (54:55.469)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (55:01.561)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (55:01.689)
or we’re gonna promote the area where we’re at, what do you think would move the needle the most?
Daan Oxener (55:08.493)
Yeah, promote destination capture linked to that northeastern loop I mentioned before.
And we see the interest is growing also among international tour operators. So, yeah, that is also maybe why I can’t come up with that challenge right away. There’s kind of a flow in… Yeah, we’ve also become more aware maybe of our strength and of course the network, the warm network has been growing. Our guides play a very crucial role here. So I see a lot of confidence.
bigger confidence than compared with a few years ago in the way they connect and also do their part of the marketing of the destination. So yeah, we are in a good stage.
Jason Elkins (56:03.705)
Is being a guide in that area, is that a fairly high social status job? I would guess, but I don’t know. mean, so your guides, like when your guides are downtown and, and, know, like, he’s a guide. He’s, know, maybe they dress a little differently. I remember when I was in Belize, for example, our guides would at the end of the week, they’d get on the boat to go back to town and
Daan Oxener (56:12.376)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (56:21.198)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (56:27.011)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (56:27.463)
These guys are very, very humble looking around the lodge and working with their clients. But then when they get on the boat to go back to town, they’ve got the gold chain on and the Nike sneakers. Because they know that when they get back to the dock, there’s going to be people around to see them. And they’re like, you’re a fishing guide. I’m just curious if it’s similar in your community.
Daan Oxener (56:34.883)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Daan Oxener (56:40.161)
Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (56:45.283)
Yeah, yeah, that’s similar. Pretty high status, but still below the champions. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (56:48.679)
you
Yeah. yeah. Ooh, yeah. I bet. Because you’ve got a culture of very well known athletes there. that’s interesting. Hmm. Very, very interesting. You mentioned earlier something kind of about just the kind of the infrastructure was part of why there’s not so much, you know, tourism there. Is that still a concern? I mean, if you could.
Daan Oxener (56:59.245)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (57:19.399)
wave a magic wand and put in a super highway leading right into the neighborhood or an airport or something like that. Is there anything like that that would instantly solve the, not solve a problem, but just bring more tourists in? And would you even want those tourists?
Daan Oxener (57:27.545)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (57:36.335)
Yeah.
Yeah, that’s a good question. I wouldn’t know the full straight answer to that because I would say an airport. But does it then bring in the type of tourists that really want to connect with the community? And yeah, that’s a question. It may depend. The highways is really a positive development. the last five years, we’ve been connected to the Kenyon border behind Kapchowatown. There’s a new highway. There’s even solar.
streetlights in the night. It’s a complete transformation of the surroundings of the town in the town. So I noticed that it also helps our stakeholders and guides to be confident and they’re really happy about it. it’s kind of… It has been a very isolated area, not much recognized.
Jason Elkins (58:13.021)
Nice.
Daan Oxener (58:38.925)
in the past. So I guess it has to do with recognition as well.
Jason Elkins (58:46.941)
You mentioned earlier, I think.
at a map but I think you said you’re fairly close to the Sudan border as well.
Daan Oxener (58:56.815)
No, not really. That’s the Kideppo National Park I mentioned, but we are close to the canyon border, 80 kilometres from the canyon border.
Jason Elkins (59:01.051)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (59:06.163)
Okay, the reason I brought that up is there’s a few countries or words that trigger people around safety concerns and issues. So the question I just asked you is very probably a difficult question, maybe for people that like Africa, well, what do you know about Africa? They think about things that are not so pleasant and places that they probably should not go.
Daan Oxener (59:28.847)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (59:34.323)
So let’s just discuss that for a minute. Let’s discuss attitudes about Africa. Let’s discuss safety in Uganda and what do you, I guess the question is what do you think are the biggest misconceptions that you would want to share with people?
Daan Oxener (59:36.857)
Yeah, sure.
Daan Oxener (59:50.499)
Yeah, safety, you’ve mentioned it first. Uganda is a very welcoming country. The people are laid back and friendly. So it’s really easy to hire a car and to travel around. Anytime there’s an issue with your car, you will get help. Mechanics jump up from nowhere.
Jason Elkins (01:00:17.811)
Let me just, I wanna make sure I’m clear. I also wanna make sure our listeners, because when you say hire a car, that maybe sounds different to some people who might say rent a car, and then I might say hire a driver. So I just wanna be real clear on what you’re saying. You’re saying hire a car, meaning you could show up, rent a car, and drive yourself around.
Daan Oxener (01:00:37.819)
Yeah, that happens quite a lot. Maybe 30 to 40 % of our guests do that.
Jason Elkins (01:00:40.891)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:00:48.435)
I’m not going to ask about your US guest. I think I already know the answer. But that’s why we’re having this conversation. you know, is, yeah, what expectations? We talked about expectations. So you can go there, rent a car, presumably book rooms, whether they’re staying with you or maybe just book hotel rooms and motels and places to stay and.
You said, and you said that if your car breaks down, a bunch of mechanics will show up. it, I wonder if you can, it’s another, maybe it’s just cause I spent so much time in Belize dealing with locals in Belize. noticed that like pretty much everybody could do anything, whether they could really do it not. But, but if, you know, I would show up at the boat ramp, you know, when I’d go into the city and people would say,
Daan Oxener (01:01:32.281)
Right, yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:01:42.425)
know Mr. Jason do you have a job for me? I say well don’t know what do you do? Well what do need? If I said I need a generator mechanic, yep I’m a generator mechanic. If I said I need a boat captain, I’m a boat captain. If I said I need a dive master, I can do that. So yeah that’s…
Daan Oxener (01:01:47.449)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:01:54.041)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I recognize that question from applicants. People come with an open application. That is the common thing they say. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:02.961)
Yeah. I can do whatever you need, which is great. I love that enthusiasm. And it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s actually a really a smart approach in life as opposed to, you know, just sit around. Well, I only know how to do this one thing.
Daan Oxener (01:02:09.231)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:02:15.438)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:21.755)
So I’m just that I am a carpenter and that’s all I do and that’s all I know. And there’s no carpentry jobs right now. So I’m just gonna sit around and wait for a carpentry job as opposed to maybe just, you know, convince somebody that I’m a car mechanic or whatever. So yeah, it’s an important, important skill to have. Okay, so are there places in Uganda? I’ll just direct question. Are there places in Uganda that…
Daan Oxener (01:02:31.161)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:02:35.619)
Yeah, right. flexible and adaptive to the needs. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:50.961)
visitors really have no business going to?
Daan Oxener (01:02:54.223)
at the moment? No. No.
Jason Elkins (01:02:56.455)
I know that’s a tough question and I could edit this out later if you don’t want to, but you know what I mean.
Daan Oxener (01:03:02.989)
No, there are no go areas at the moment, would… Let me think.
There has been a little security issue along the Congolese border, but that’s some time back. But it’s really in the western, far western part of the country. But as far as I can oversee, that has been fully brought back to a stable situation. people are freely traveling the country, actually.
Jason Elkins (01:03:43.091)
Have you had conversations? I suspect you have had conversations with people that will say things like, I heard about something. I don’t know. I don’t want to name any countries, but I heard something about something. So we’re holding off on our plans to go to Africa. And you’re like, that’s.
Daan Oxener (01:03:54.137)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:04:01.139)
4,000 miles away. They just think of Africa as this one country and anything that’s going on in Western Africa must be impacting what’s going on in Eastern Africa and so on and so forth. I’m sure that comes up a lot. What’s your typical response?
Daan Oxener (01:04:03.048)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:04:12.313)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:04:17.295)
Yeah
Yeah, used to passionately then start talking about our area and how beautiful it is, but later I’ve learned that that doesn’t necessarily convince them. So I guess over time I learned a little bit more to, yeah, then to really, really explain the real situation on the ground. Yeah, maybe also…
Jason Elkins (01:04:22.833)
other than Africa is a big place.
Daan Oxener (01:04:48.751)
connect them to travelers who’ve been here already or to use it as a showcase, an example. And also to… It’s actually something we are working on at the moment to still figuring out how to do it, but to have some FAQ answers on our website that tackle some of these early concerns.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:05:19.495)
I wonder, I think somebody that books a trip, like actually takes the initiative to initiate something and then gets nervous because of they see a news report or something like that. That’s one thing. I think that that type of traveler is maybe worthwhile to help them, you know, learn and, and ease their concerns. But I suspect like if you go to a trade, let’s say you go to Berlin, a trade show in Berlin.
Daan Oxener (01:05:32.239)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:05:43.908)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:05:49.331)
And there’s and you run into people and you just happen to mention you do this thing in Uganda and they’re like, oh, Africa is really dangerous. It’s probably you’ve probably I’m just curious. Have you just got to the point where there’s no point in me trying to get to even take the time to share with them anything? It’s like they’ve already made that decision. And. I don’t know where I’m going with this other than I remember I had when I worked at.
Daan Oxener (01:06:13.411)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:06:17.427)
I was running a big travel business inside of another business and an employee of that company came to me one day and said, Jason, we really need to set up more trips like to Europe for people that don’t like to travel or they’re afraid. know, they’re like people because like my wife, want to take my wife to Europe, but she’s afraid of this and afraid of that and just afraid of everything. And we should set up trips for people like that.
Daan Oxener (01:06:32.449)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:06:43.407)
I actually have to think now of a family member who said when I left the Netherlands, I won’t specify the person any further, but what does Daan have to do in dark Africa? What sense is there in this decision?
Jason Elkins (01:06:53.523)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:07:01.542)
It’s.
So a person that already believes that way, I don’t know how much you can do to influence them. can say, you should talk to so-and-so, you should talk to so-and-so, you should talk, but they’re already kind of, and it’s like that in everything in life. I mean, it’s politics and so, so many different things. I I remember when I started traveling full-time, I started my voyage in Columbia.
Daan Oxener (01:07:08.697)
Bye.
Daan Oxener (01:07:17.133)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:07:21.071)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:07:27.577)
And I’m in Columbia now. I haven’t been here the whole time, but yeah, I remember when I left, had family members that like, why on earth would you want to go there? And even to this day, there was something happened here in Columbia a few weeks ago and I got messages from people back home. And they’re like, is everything okay? And I’m like.
Daan Oxener (01:07:28.238)
I just.
Daan Oxener (01:07:37.027)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:07:48.423)
What are you talking about? I didn’t even like make the connection. I kind of saw the news report, but it’s like, yeah, whatever. And they’re like, I hear the country’s in chaos and da da da da da and this and that. And I was like, I literally didn’t know. I had to go on my phone and look up like, what are they even talking about? But but anyway, yeah, it’s it’s it’s a challenge.
Daan Oxener (01:07:51.266)
No.
Daan Oxener (01:07:58.479)
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:08:05.987)
Right,
Jason Elkins (01:08:12.467)
We’ve discussed a bunch of things. We’ve covered quite a few topics. We got all the way back to when you were six watching a slideshow, which is really cool because actually, you know, I have some memories when I was pretty young where I saw some slideshows that were pretty influential in my life as well. And so I appreciate you sharing that because it kind of triggered a memory for me as well. So that’s that’s very cool. But Daan, what did we not discuss or what do you wish that I would have asked you?
Daan Oxener (01:08:20.342)
Thank
Daan Oxener (01:08:27.437)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Okay, okay. Nice.
Jason Elkins (01:08:41.171)
Before we wrap up, I just wanted to give you a chance to share anything you’d like with their listeners that maybe we missed over or glossed over.
Daan Oxener (01:08:47.157)
okay. Alright,
Daan Oxener (01:08:54.415)
Thinking, thinking… No, I… There’s no question. Well done, job well done. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:09:00.285)
You think we got it on? Okay. Well, as soon as I push the stop record button, then something’s going to come to your head. But that’s okay. It just means we have to come back and do it again later. No problem.
Daan Oxener (01:09:10.605)
Yeah.
If we would have another hour, but then we have to plan another session, I would love to dive deeper into how to build a team and the human resource part of growing a social enterprise in a remote area. yeah, I’m okay, we can’t cover everything.
Jason Elkins (01:09:32.595)
It’s not easy. No, it’s not easy. you’ve developed, and I know, because I’ve been around long enough, is that you’ve developed a skill that very few people ever do. To go into another culture and build a team and build an enterprise that’s community focused, that’s not just a business, but is also giving back and involving people, that’s a huge thing.
Daan Oxener (01:09:46.671)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:10:01.427)
Do you have any, any new new projects that you’re thinking about you want to mention or is that still that in the future to be seen?
Daan Oxener (01:10:10.233)
Yeah, the focus is actually a lot on telling the story of what we’ve built and the uniqueness of our destination here back in the Netherlands. So what was supposed to become a family and friends visit at the moment is more of a work. It’s still a holiday because, yeah, talking about your passion is not really work, right? And in line with that,
Jason Elkins (01:10:33.842)
Yeah, yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:10:39.129)
Yeah, reaching out to magazines, outdoor travel magazines, running adventure magazines. That’s what I’m actually… This morning I was working on an article about the secrets behind the running success in Kopchoa and the real roots of the champions and how nature, community and the running culture are connected there.
So yeah, guess it’s just also, yeah, believing in the uniqueness and then following up on that and sharing that story more and more. That’s the flow we are in at the moment.
Jason Elkins (01:11:20.467)
Very cool.
And that’s why we’re here. So thank you so much, Daan. Thanks for coming and sharing your story, the story of Home of Friends. I feel like I want to say Home of Friends and then I feel like, should I say the whole thing or, but you know, Home of Friends Guest House and Community Experiences, which is a little bit of mouthful, but I appreciate that because it says so much. love the, you know, Home of Friends is, it’s just pretty cool. I like that. I mean, it’s like, you just.
Daan Oxener (01:11:25.422)
Go.
Daan Oxener (01:11:36.472)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daan Oxener (01:11:44.185)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:11:49.809)
You feel like you’ve made friends before you even get there. So anyway, look forward to hopefully visiting you someday and.
Daan Oxener (01:11:52.051)
Yeah, right. That would be great, Jason. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:11:58.866)
Yeah. Daan, thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your time and look forward to chatting with you again soon.
Daan Oxener (01:12:03.587)
Thank you very much, Jason. Okay. Bye.
Jason Elkins (01:12:05.907)
All right, bye Daan.

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