Guest Bio
Daniel Buitrón is the founder of Colombia EcoTravel, a boutique travel agency specializing in personalized and sustainable tourism experiences across Colombia. With a deep passion for his country’s rich cultural and natural heritage, Daniel has dedicated his career to showcasing Colombia’s diverse landscapes, vibrant communities, and unique ecosystems to travelers from around the world. His commitment to responsible tourism practices ensures that guests enjoy authentic experiences while supporting local communities and conservation efforts.
Show Summary
In this episode, Daniel Buitrón shares his journey in the travel industry, highlighting the founding and growth of Colombia EcoTravel. He discusses the importance of sustainable tourism, the challenges and rewards of promoting Colombia as a travel destination, and the role of personalized travel experiences in connecting visitors with the country’s rich heritage. Daniel also reflects on the impact of tourism on local communities and the environment, emphasizing the need for responsible travel practices.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Sustainable Tourism: Implementing eco-friendly practices benefits communities and preserves natural resources.
- ✓ Authentic Experiences: Personalized travel fosters deeper connections with local cultures.
- ✓ Community Support: Tourism can positively impact local economies when conducted responsibly.
- ✓ Environmental Conservation: Travelers play a role in protecting ecosystems through mindful choices.
- ✓ Challenges in Tourism: Overcoming misconceptions and promoting lesser-known destinations requires dedication.
What You’ll Find on Colombia EcoTravel’s Platform
- ✓ Customized Itineraries – Tailored travel plans that cater to individual interests and preferences.
- ✓ Eco-Friendly Tours – Experiences designed with a focus on sustainability and minimal environmental impact.
- ✓ Cultural Immersion – Opportunities to engage with local communities and traditions.
- ✓ Adventure Activities – Options ranging from hiking and birdwatching to river rafting and more.
- ✓ Wildlife Expeditions – Guided tours that explore Colombia’s diverse flora and fauna.
👉 Visit Colombia EcoTravel’s Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Daniel Buitrón’s contributions to sustainable tourism in Colombia.
Learn more about Colombia ECOTRAVEL and connect with Daniel at:
https://colombiaeco.travel/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small Podcast for the Adventure Traveler. Super excited to have all of you back here listening to the show today. And very honored to have our guest today is Daniel Buitron. Daniel, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you here. Where are you speaking with us from right now? Likewise. Thank you for the invitation. I’m really excited to talk to you about Colombia today. So right now I’m located in New York State, actually. Okay, very cool. And what is…
We’re gonna jump in, we’re gonna cover a bunch of things, but you’re in New York, it is early November when we’re recording this. Correct. So are you ready to get on a plane and come back down to Colombia where the weather’s blowing? Absolutely, I’ve already got my plan set for December. I actually will be there in the first week of December. I was there in July. So I go back often. Obviously, we’re talking about Colombia as a destination and the business that I do.
I have the team down there, so I go down there often. And also December in Colombia is fantastic, not only for the weather, but for all the Christmas stuff. That’s true. And December’s fantastic here, and it’s not so fantastic in New York. I lived in New York for a while. I have some memories of that. I’m in, as we were speaking before I hit the record button there, I’m in Medellin right now, which is the city of eternal spring.
And it’s like any month of the year is amazing here. And I’m sure there’s some seasonal fluctuations around the country, but I tell you, I’d much rather be here in December than just about anywhere. So when you come down, we’ll have to get together for a coffee. So Daniel, what I’d love to discuss is a little bit about kind of your background. How did you get into this? People that do this always have some kind of interesting little twist or turn along the way.
Jason Elkins (02:26.65)
And love to hear what is your twist or turn that got you into running one of the most respected tourism companies in South America, definitely in Colombia. So tell us your story. Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. And you’re absolutely right. I think that everyone that I’ve met who runs a tour operator, who is in this industry to some degree, does it because it was a passion or they fell in love with the destination or they themselves went on a trip and they’re like, I love this. I’m going to…
I’m gonna start doing this as a business or as my profession. So in my case, I was living in the Pacific Northwest of the United States in Oregon. And I loved living there, but there came a time where, and I don’t know if you’ve been there, but for people who are listening, it’s famously known for being one of the rainiest places in the United States. It’s absolutely gorgeous in the summertime, which is when we all get amnesia and forget how cold and wet and damp and dreary it is for the rest of the year.
But after living there for almost 10 years, my wife and I at the time were looking at switching it up and we really were wanting to move to a place where the weather was better, where we could buy some land, where we could have a totally different lifestyle. And she had already actually started looking at doing a three month trip to South America. That was kind of one of her lifelong dreams. And that was right about when we started dating and got married and everything. So it worked out really well.
basically said to her, why don’t we go do that trip and make it not only a honeymoon trip, but also a business kind of venture trip. Let’s go figure out if we can actually do something in Colombia. So I convinced her to, instead of doing a whole three month trip around Latin America, we should just focus on one country. And then the impetus for that, of course, is that why Colombia? My mom is Colombian. So from a young age, I’ve been going to Colombia.
and I knew enough about it and I had enough understanding and speaking Spanish fluently helped a lot. So I was able to convince her that we would do Colombia. But we didn’t- Hey, real quick, real quick. Where is she from originally? She’s from New York, from this area, from upstate New York. Okay, she was obviously pretty open-minded to have this, you know, come up with this idea of three months in South America. But I always ask people, especially around Colombia,
Jason Elkins (04:53.718)
What did she think about Colombia before she came? Was like, did you get some pushback on Colombia as a country or all about it? I mean, she trusts obviously me that I’m going to be going somewhere that was gonna be interesting. But also we did our research, right? Before we even started the idea of having a business, I actually started looking at information. So there’s really good tracking that the Colombian government does and other places in the Colombian government like Puerto Colombia that actually.
do it has information about these are the numbers for inbound tourists. This is what we expect that’s going to happen. So I started looking at all this information and then I realized this was back in 2009 and I’m like, wow, there’s a potentially really interesting on tap market here, let’s look at tourism. So I was in information technology. I was doing project management for big corporations. My wife is an occupational pediatric occupational therapist. So she was in the healthcare space.
And we had both done it for long enough that we wanted to change as well, right? So we wanted to change computer, we wanted to change location, we wanted a total upheaval of what we were doing. And tourism is one of those things where there is a learning curve, but the learning curve is you’re learning while you’re doing and usually you’re doing something that’s fun. So learning curve- Makes it a lot easier, doesn’t it? Learning curve is not that bad when you do that. But so I said to her, look, I think we should start a business, I think we should go down to Colombia.
and really pitch and look for opportunities from hotels, tourism providers, anything that we could find out and just network with people. And effectively that’s what we did. We literally had a plan to travel for three and a half months. We went to all the major cities. We planned it, we left in December and we got back in March. So we planned it around all the major holidays through Christmas. So we basically went to, we arrived in Bogota, we went to Medellin.
We went to Cartagena, we went to Manizales for the Feria Manizales, we were in Barraguilla for the carnival. We basically did as much of the touristy things that we could. And along the way, what we ended up realizing was two things. First of all, we would tell everyone, we had business cards printed out, we would tell everyone, we are from the US, I’m Colombian, we’re looking at starting a company here to bring tourists. And so they would always be like, wow, that’s amazing. I know somebody who you need to talk to. So we made so many connections.
Jason Elkins (07:18.038)
We met so many interesting people who were just starting anything from an eco hotel to their tour operator walking tour, or they’re like, Oh, I know a friend of a friend that owns a car. So basically all these things, right? Right. Really started to organically grow. And so after three and a half months, we had a nice portfolio of products that we could actually sell. We came back to the US and two things became apparent really quickly. The first thing was.
that we needed to shift our focus to ecotourism instead of just general tourism. Because until we traveled there, before we traveled there, we didn’t realize really the breadth and scope of the biodiversity, the number one. They ranked number ones for birds, for orchids, for amphibians, for pretty much everything that has to do with nature. Colombia is ranked number one. And then secondly, we realized that there were some bigger operators that have been there already, maybe for two or three years.
and they were doing mass tourism. And obviously there was a big operators in Colombia that were catering to the domestic and the Spanish speaking audiences had been there for 40, 50 years. So we didn’t want to compare them. We really wanted to focus on inbound English speaking eco-tourist type of travelers that are more focused on understanding the culture, the nature, and the whole aspect of what eco-tourism brings to you, right? The communities and all of those things. So we really quickly focused
And it was also a very good thing that we focused because our original name was a nod to Putumayo Records. I don’t know if you know Putumayo Records. It’s the label out of New York City and maybe even San Francisco. And it’s based off of the international music. And Putumayo is a region of Colombia. And the founder of this record label was in Colombia in the 1970s and really loved that name. And our company was gonna be called Putumayo Tours. No one in their mind could…
I don’t know how to pronounce, understand what that even meant. And I was like, this is a bad name choice. So I ended up changing that really quickly. How long did it take you to figure that out before? When we got back to the US with our portfolio of products and we started trying to pitch it. Oh, okay. Sometimes people take five or six years before they realize they chose the wrong name. So it sounds like you were pretty quick. Yeah, it was really quick because I knew what it was, but just having to explain it to people. So we immediately changed it to Colombia Eco Travel. Very clear, very easy.
Jason Elkins (09:45.806)
The only other issue there is that people spell Colombia with a U instead of an O. So I had to buy both domains to make sure that people wouldn’t be redirected. All those things which were, you know, as you learn as you grow a business. So that was back in 2010. So since 2010 until now, we’ve been growing the business. But the second thing that became apparent, as I mentioned before, there was two things. First of all was we need to change the name and transfer it to an ecotourism. And the second thing we realized was that we actually did have to move to Colombia.
because of the nature of how the businesses were growing and there were the cultural aspects of doing business. So if you’re used to doing business in a place like the United States, it’s very easy to set up contracts and to have a really close relationships with your business partners, even if you’re not in the same space. What I realized really quickly is that I would have to be down there, literally be in person setting up these different agreements and then really going through that
process of hiring them, training them, doing a lot of things, and even mentoring them through their processes. Because a lot of them had never experienced international tourists before, if at all any tourists. So this was a whole growth process. So we weren’t only selling the products and creating all these tours and experiences. A lot of my job, because we were partners in this, my wife and I, a lot of my job was to go out there and actually find the partners.
train the partners, set the expectations, help them with their billing, help them with just figuring out, for them to figure out how they actually need to set up. How they could work with you. Right, so that they could work with us, right? Because we were, a lot of these people were just single operators, you know, or even a small family, and they didn’t even have the understanding of how to set up the legal process in terms of taxation and all those things. So all of that process was a lot of the learning curve that I had to learn myself.
business in Colombia and then being able to replicate it and teach other people how to do that. So we can even just operate the business, right? So that was like the first two or three years. I remember our first client was a couple from Los Angeles and they were so hesitant. They were like, we really want to go to Colombia, but are you guys real? Are you guys legitimate? Are you like this whole process? And like, yeah, we have insurance, we have everything. We’re going to charge you on your credit card, like all these things. And then they came and they loved it, right? So, but that was our first client.
Jason Elkins (12:09.43)
That was a year and a half after we started the business. So definitely a lot of things there. And since then, obviously we’ve had lots and lots and hundreds and hundreds of clients, probably even thousands now, and operate for bigger businesses that send us clients that we run their business and their tours for as well. So all that, but yeah, it’s been great. And I’m in New York now because obviously pandemic was a big shift and had to transition. But
And right now it’s a really interesting opportunity to be more virtual than even before. Well, it’s all that legwork you did to set up the business. Presumably that now allows you, you’ve got good people on the ground, you better understanding of how you can communicate with them. So it’s probably a good thing that you set all that up early on. Absolutely, most of our providers and the people that I, we built really strong relationships with, that was…
as you just mentioned, that was literally 2013, 2014. So they’ve been with us now throughout this whole time. And those who did survive the pandemic and survived COVID, we immediately reconnected with them. It’s like, how are you doing? Do you need anything from us? What can we do to get back and start working together? So yeah, that was really good. And then now the perspective from my side is I actually see this as an opportunity to be in the US. So…
Literally was just down at the New York International Travel Show last weekend. Just the face-to-face networking with operators and buyers in the US, right? So there’s a possibility for me to just take a quick drive, do that, and be able to Denver, Los Angeles, for the other travel shows and other things. Where if I’m in Colombia, it really makes it a long trip, right? So I’ve got my people on the ground there. I’ve got all my staff that manages all the day-to-day operations, the sales.
all the operational things right now. For me, it’s really a benefit. And so I’m looking at that opportunity to be like, how much can I do to expose Colombia to more people, right? To more operators, more buyers, to more just people in general. And then what can I do to also bring more people to Colombia? Because it’s always that two-step process. First is Colombia is really amazing. You really need to go. I think that you can account to that. Yeah. I can’t remember if I mentioned
Jason Elkins (14:35.854)
Yeah, since we started recording here that I’m actually in Medellin right now. So anybody listening. So when he says that, that’s, I hear everything he’s saying. And I’m, I’m actually because of my knowledge of Colombia, I’m quite impressed that you’ve been able to create what you have, the people are amazing. And also I understand there’s sometimes challenges. And one of the things I’ve noticed about people are they’re very hard working. And many people here will have seven to 10 different businesses, everything from.
selling candy on the street corner to, you know, maintenance of houses, fixing cars. Like I get the feeling like a Colombian, you can say, hey, I’m looking for somebody to help me with this. Do you know how to do that? They’re gonna say yes. Like whether they know how to do it or not. That’s a fantastic point. There’s actually a saying, so you’re in right now in Medellin, that’s the paisa culture. It’s renowned now more than ever because there are so many famous artists like Juanes and Jalvin and Maluma.
that have been really put out there in the entertainment world that are from Medellin. So there’s a whole kind of resurgence, but also places like Cumuna 13 and other places in Medellin have really kind of been spotlighted for transformational social change and community change and a lot of things like that. But additionally, all that being great, historically the people from Medellin have always been the most entrepreneurial and Spanish they call it pujantes or like they’re the most go-getters.
And there’s a saying that I love that basically, you’re not a real paisa if you give up, basically. Oh, okay. Yeah. In Spanish, I’m kind of loosely translating it, but in Spanish, basically says, if you don’t know it, you make it. You basically, if you don’t know what you’re doing, you do it until you fake it until you make it. Fake it until you make it. Yeah. The people, I can attest to. They always say, yes, I can do that. And then they just figure it out as they’re doing it.
Yeah, they’re very entrepreneurial. It’s, I don’t think I’ve ever been any place where I’ve seen people willing to work as hard as they do for such a small reward sometimes, to be honest. I don’t know how else to say it, but I’ve seen people, I’ve seen people doing things here. It’s a pleasure of service of helping people. Yeah, it’s, it’s many, many times that I’m sure you’ll have this experience is, oh, I need something and you’re in the middle of a place or somewhere. And they’ll just literally leap to your service to help.
Jason Elkins (17:02.446)
And then you’re like, Oh, what can I do to repay? It’s like nothing. Why would, why, why would I need something from you? I’m helping. It’s if you get away from the tourist areas, it’s hard to tip or anything. And sometimes I’m like, you know, I’ll buy a coffee and a croissant and that’s, you know, I’ll say eight mil. We don’t need to do that. Bucks whatever. It’s two bucks. It’s two dollars. Yeah. And I’ll have, you know, maybe I’ve just, I’ll give them a little extra just because that’s what I have in cash or whatever. I don’t expect change. And they look at me weird. Like I’ve had.
I’ve had people chase me out of restaurants with money in their hands, because I left it on the table. They’re like, oh, it’s yours, you forgot your money. And like that does not happen back home. I’m not saying that North Americans aren’t honest, but it’s a different culture. Absolutely. You know, I’ve had the pleasure of also running a hostel that we started for five years and that closed.
right before the pandemic, which was kind of a blessing as well. But we had people from all around the world and they all said the same thing. Many of them were traveling, backpacking through Latin America. And they always said, I wish I would have known that Colombia was so amazing. So I could have spent more time here. Most of them had budgeted a month in like in Chile or month in Argentina or whatever, and only like a week or two in Colombia. And they always said the same things like, I’m so in love with this country, in love with the people, in love with the food.
I don’t like the food that much, just personally, but the food’s good. The food’s good. It’s all natural, it’s all local. That’s really the best thing about it. It tastes so good. The cuisine in general is getting better. But Colombia is not known as the Mexico of South America or the Peru or the Italy. But this last year, four restaurants, two in Bogotan and two in Cartagena, were in the top 50 best restaurants in the Latin America list. So they’re getting.
Yeah. Were they serving Colombian food? Yes. They’re in Eo, which is in Bogota. Leonora Espinosa is a famous female chef from Colombia. She is sourcing all of her products from local farmers. And it’s more like Nouveau Colombian. Like, you know how they have Nouveau Peru? I would call it Nouveau Colombian in many ways. A friend of mine owns Cellele, which is a restaurant in Cartagena, I should say. And what he’s done is he’s actually spent
Jason Elkins (19:23.754)
months and months learning all the traditional cooking of the Caribbean coast of Colombia. And he’s put his own hot cuisine twist to it. So you get a 10 course meal paired with all the different drinks and it’s just a fantastic experience. So we’re taking fine dining and applying it to Colombian food and products. And so that’s really where the hits coming from. Like that’s really where the success is. And that goes back to what we were saying about
I don’t know how to do it, but I’ll figure it out. And that entrepreneurship and that like, okay, the American tourists aren’t that excited about the regular paisa arepa and the beans. And beans, beans and rice and arepa. Yeah, we’ve got two dishes, beans and rice and rice and beans, which would you prefer? So I can see that entrepreneurship and that ability to kind of try different things is really paying off. And you said something that
really resonated when you had the hostel, you’d get guests and say, oh, I wish I’d known I would have came here earlier in the trip, I would have budgeted more time for Colombia. And as soon as you said that, on a much bigger scale, and we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording, was on a bigger scale, I wish I would have known so I could have budgeted more time, and I’m not talking about a specific trip, I’m talking about my life.
Literally, I spent Halloween in the parquet they called us in the city of Caldas. There must have been four or five thousand people in the park and not a single one of them looked like me. And I was sitting there like my costume was gringo. I was gringo, man. If anybody asks, that’s what I was going to say. I dressed up as a gringo. I wear my shorts and my flip flops. And no, not really. But
But it was such an amazing experience from the kids all the way up to the adults. And I’ve been through a lot of Halloweens and that was by far the coolest Halloween I’ve ever experienced. Mostly just sitting there at the little, you know, at the table watching people. I bought a bag of candy, I was sitting there handing out. It was so cool. And I’d sent a message to a friend of mine who I haven’t seen since I’ve been back on this trip. And I said, you know, I’m so happy I’m back in Colombia.
Jason Elkins (21:41.21)
And I’m spending, you know, I sent her a couple of pictures and I said, I wish I would have known 30 years ago. You know, I’m 50. Cause if I’d come here 20 years ago, oh my gosh. I mean, I’m happy with the direction my life has taken. I’m here now, but I don’t think I would have left. So I get it. I had an opportunity. Yeah. The truth is though, 20, 30 years ago, you probably went to Colombia because it was totally different. I know. Not culturally and not those magical moments.
you know, the land of magical realism. Really, if you talk to anybody who’s been to Colombia, there’s like, there’s a, that whole idea of magical realism, which made Gabriela Garcia Marquez’s book famous, and there’s a whole campaign around that and the whole Encanta movie, like all that magic. I think it’s very real in Colombia. And there’s definitely this essence of magic that happens because of the people, because of the culture, because of the nature, the exuberant nature that’s there, all these things.
call us and make this really unique place. But 30 years ago, and I remember this because 30 years ago I went to Colombia as a teenager and people were still putting car bombs in front of banks and people were getting shot in the street. And there was a lot of here every day because that was that crux, that really pivotal moment when the FARC were still very active and the government was very active and the cartels were very active and there was a lot of things happening. But, you know, really
in the last 10, 15, 20 years, that transition has been pretty rapid. And so I’d say the last 10 years, anybody who’s made the move, like in your experience has been to Colombia, loves it, wants to stay there. And there’s also just a ton of opportunity for anybody really, but more importantly in the tourism space because Colombia is still very low in the numbers of inbound tourists. It’s still…
I just literally was pitching to a person. The first thing they asked me was, is it safe? Even now, even with having more than 6 million inbound tourists in the last two years, there’s still a lot of perceptions that need to be overcome. There’s so many things. I’m happy you brought that up. I’m going to say I’m happy you kind of called me out in a sense when I say, oh, I wish I would have come here 30 years ago. You’re right. That could reflect a little bit of, I don’t know.
Jason Elkins (24:04.654)
I’m trying to think of the word, but insensitivity, that’s the word, right? So, cause like maybe I owe my, maybe I should reach back out to my friend and acknowledge it that when I say, oh, I wish I was here 30 years ago. Well, she was. Yeah. She was here 30 years ago. She’s told me stories about, you know, her mom forgot to pick her up after school one day, thought her dad was going to pick her up, whatever. She spent three hours sitting outside the school house with these ideas on her head that, you know, she was never going to see her mom again because of things like you just described.
Right. You know, she grew up in that reality. She’s the same age. I grew up in the reality of watching that stuff on TV. And Colombia is like it was like Afghanistan or like, whoa, no, that’s the negative stuff. And unfortunately, what happens when that type of stuff ends, the news coverage ends. Right. So it’s like, and you’re just left with whatever you saw last. If your last impression.
There’s no, there’s no, Colombia is actually amazing. You should come and visit, you know, so you’re still stuck in your head or where it was. And it’s a pretty vivid image if you lived it for sure. And if you just, even if you just saw it, it’s a vivid image. So I know that when I came, it was two years ago, I sold all my stuff, but when we take it, I was the only planning to be around for a month or so before I continued on my journey. And I remember two days before I got on the plane.
My father copied and pasted the entire State Department warning off the State Department website, copied and pasted it into a text. I didn’t even know you could do that. I didn’t know you could make a text that long. And he sent it to me and said, Son, I really think you should reconsider. And I’m like, wow. That was actually the first moment in my life where I thought, oh, I think I’m more adventurous than my father. He was a blue pile. He was very good at Colombia.
and get killed, murdered, robbed, who knows what. Yeah, and a week later, a week later, I’m sitting at a cafe drinking coffee, eating a croissant thinking, oh my gosh, nobody knows about this. In my mind, nobody knows about this. You’ve been in tourism so people know. I’m not saying that right. It’s the world being kept secret, but at the same time, it’s crazy. It’s like, you definitely want people to go, right? Yeah, yeah. So the question is it safe? Because any place in the world,
Jason Elkins (26:25.546)
has places that are not so safe. You and I have discussed that a little bit, but the perception and the reality are definitely two different things, especially for people maybe from North America. So how do you answer that question? Absolutely, and that’s the thing. When people ask me, is it Colombia safe? And I literally respond saying, I lived there for 10 years. There are places that as a tour operator, I’ve been to that I would never send a…
an North American or any of my clients too. I’ve been there because I was looking for post-conflict operators, people who literally used to be part of the FARC or who actually are victims of that violence who are now looking at tourism as an opportunity. That’s literally why I’ve been in these places where you’ve got to drive for, you gotta wake up at five o’clock in the morning and drive for six hours in a four by four vehicle up a mountain where the cliffs are precipitous. You know, you look down and it’s like you’re in the mountains, right? So the Andes, it’s like, wow,
3,000 foot drop or whatever. But yeah, those are the places that tourists will never go to unless they’re like Bear Grylls or some ridiculous adventurer, right? So I explained to them, it’s like, you’re gonna be going to the most biodiverse country in the world. It’s the happiest place on earth for most people. And we’re gonna send you to places that you enjoy, right? If you like to go birdwatching, if you wanna go look at animals in the safari, if you wanna just go and eat amazing food or drink coffee or explore whatever you want, we’re gonna make sure that you’re gonna do that.
And not only that, there are many, many more unsafe places around the world that you could go to. Nobody talks about Mexico still being relatively unsafe. Or even some places in the US. Exactly. So it’s really all matter of perspective, like you’re saying. But the biggest thing is that one of the major reasons I think people do actually, who are feeling like Colombia’s unsafe, but then really want to go because they’ve been told by a friend or a family member that they just went and they loved it. They usually do find an operator to help them with that.
The second thing is usually the language barriers. If you don’t know any Spanish, there are some places in Colombia that if you don’t know any Spanish at all, it can be really hard to navigate and to communicate. Not in Medellín. I think you’re being, yeah, I think there’s a lot of places in Colombia that if you don’t speak any Spanish, can be quite challenging. Can you do it? Am I believing that? I mean, you can do it.
Jason Elkins (28:51.042)
might not speak English. You can still survive most situations. When I came here two years ago, I knew nothing. No Spanish at all. And I managed to do just fine and fell in love with the place. But I’m also very outgoing. And I realized quickly that if I want to connect with people, if I want to make friends, I better learn some Spanish. But yeah, so it’s… But in general, again, if you’re coming as a tourist and you had a totally different plan, you obviously also traveled.
a lot, you’ve been in this industry, you know how to connect with people, you know how to manage in this space. But if you’re just like, I just want to go to Colombia because I really love this, or I’ve been told to go because of this, it’s more of that comfort level, right? Oh, yeah. Well, it’s honestly- Like the majority of the people that I’ve met in the last six months here in New York state, that will walk, you know, I’ll be walking around with my Colombia eco travel cap on, or my water bottle, they got all my stickers.
I just came back from Colombia. Randomly, they’ll just poke at me. It’s like, hey, I just came back from Colombia. People are excited to tell you, aren’t they? Super excited. Yeah, I’m like, where’d you go? I went to Cartagena just for the weekend. I loved it. I want to go back. I’m like, well, here’s my information. If you have any questions, I can never say, oh, go with me. No. If you have any questions, I just want people to be better informed so that they actually can have a good experience. But usually, that’s it. They’ll be like, my friend just went. Are we going to do, we just saw an article on New York Times or whatever magazine.
And they literally would just buy a ticket straight to New York City. It’s a super quick flight. They’ll be there for three days. They love it. They’ll do all the independent traveler kind of thing. Then they fly back. And I think for a lot of people, that’s a good entry point. And then if they’re more adventurous or they’re more dedicated to looking at Colombia from like a, from a whole different lens of just like really going deep.
then they’ll do that next step. But I think that that’s fantastic that even people are doing that. And usually it’s those kinds of people like from bigger cities, New York City, et cetera, who also are used to quickly jumping on a plane to Iceland or to Europe, right? So they can just go and do things on their own. So those are the kinds of people that I think are really going to be pushing a lot more of the awareness around Colombia and they’re gonna start telling more and more people as it’s those independent travelers that are doing a lot of that work. And that happened to us- I’m not sure. Back in 2009.
Jason Elkins (31:09.006)
when I traveled to Colombia for the first time, all of the people that I would run into were backpackers, predominantly from Germany and the Netherlands. And so all of a sudden- Still a ton of them here, aren’t there? Right, yeah, exactly. But that was in 2009, and this was like, I saw zero foreigners. That was like all the specific places. And it was very interesting, because obviously now you can go to Cartagena, Medellin, and it’s just covered. I mean, there’s some places in Medellin that if you look around, you’re-
there’s more foreigners than there are Colombians actually. It’s interesting that you say that and in my experience and you’ve got more than I do with the country but in my experience it’s still awful good percentage of them are Europeans. You know the German, the Dutch, the French. I see a surprisingly small percentage of North Americans just considering it’s so easy to get here.
time zones, all that stuff. I was- If there are more North Americans. Canadians, yeah, yeah. More Canadians. But I’ve been to some meet and greets, some language exchange type things, and I’m like, wow, there’s a lot of foreigners. Maybe they call them gringos, but they’re not from the States. Which is great, actually, if you’re a adventurous traveler and wanna, if you really, if you just wanna go meet people from all over the world. Honestly, it reminded me of the Star Wars. It had the scene where they’re in the bar with all the-
different aliens from all the different places and you hear all these different languages. Yeah, it can be like that in some areas of Medellin. Absolutely. And the bigger, I don’t even remember what the bigger point was where I was going with that, but it’s, yeah, it’s a special, oh, that’s where I was going. The only people that I believe, that I’ve come across that bad mouth their experience or their time, or they…
you know, they’re super critical of their experience in Colombia. It’s interesting. They fit a very particular demographic of what they’re looking for when they come to Colombia. If you’re coming to Colombia for those things that maybe you’ve heard about, you know, illicit activities or things other than the nature and the culture, those guys have a, and I’m going to say guys, help people if you’re not sure what I’m talking about. Those guys,
Jason Elkins (33:27.23)
You have a tendency to complain about a lot of things and while this and that, the Colombian people are dishonest or this or that, but it’s only those people. If you come to Colombia for any other reason. You’re here for very, unfortunately, the dark side of tourism. And Colombia is, I would, I don’t know if it’s famous for this, but I’d say it’s famous for beautiful women, beautiful people. Obviously we’ve, we’ve trafficked in, in a lot of different illicit.
substances and it’s the big C, not coffee, the other one. So there’s a lot of things that happen there. And I think that from the operator side, from a professional and tourism perspective, the Colombian government is doing a lot of work to combat everything from human trafficking to sex exploitation of minors and teenagers. And there’s a lot of work that goes along that, but the demand is unfortunately rather high.
And the corruption that goes around that is also rather high. So we’re seeing more and more of that happening in Cartagena, more specifically. So you won’t see it as much in Medellín, it happens, but Cartagena has become a hub. And so there’s a lot of work and there’s a lot of organizations also from the United States and other places that are coming in to really try to help that. My point on that is that I think that the more that operators, individual people can do to help
create more of the normal type of businesses and more of the normal type of experiences that people will actually enjoy. They will try to push some of that away and prevent that from happening. But it’s an easy sell, it’s an easy sell, right? So it’s always a challenge. And so I think it’s just understanding that it’s a reality. It’s a reality in pretty much every Latin American touristy place that I’ve ever been to. Cancun has a very similar situation, Acapulco, right? So.
It’s all about that. And it’s just understanding that that’s something that can be a damper. Also for people like me, right? It’s like, I don’t wanna be in a place where I’m being offered things with it. Remember, I might be traveling with a tourist or something or guiding a group and all of a sudden people see things that make you uncomfortable. Then that’s a perfect opportunity to discuss it and why that’s happening and all the dynamics that makes that happen to just bring more context to the reality of everyday life of a Colombian in many ways.
Jason Elkins (35:50.874)
And I think the Colombian people, my take on it is, there’s a tremendous amount of pride about being Colombian and there’s some, maybe some shame. They don’t necessarily say I’m ashamed of, but there’s some things that have happened in the past in their communities that they’re not real proud of, but they’re so proud to be Colombian. So the reason I’m bringing this up is anybody listen to this, especially if you’re gonna just go to Colombia and try and find your way around on your own.
there’s some topics that are kind of sensitive. You don’t want to show up and say, oh, can I get the, there are people that offer tours, you know, the Pablo Escobar tour, that type of thing, but don’t show up and just start asking about that. And so, you know, cause most of the people, the people that you want to talk to, probably don’t want to talk about that stuff. I would agree. The people that do want to talk about that stuff, probably are not the people that you want to spend time with in Colombia.
And if you’re listening to this podcast, I’m pretty sure that’s not you anyway, because that’s not what we’re about. So, sorry. But there is definitely, and that’s a good point to bring up because there is definitely a lot of people who are offering those types of experiences and offering also like I can, I’ve seen this and so again, obviously did not condone it at all, but how to go and process cocaine, how to do these kinds of things, right? So these are the kinds of things that are just not helping at all in terms of the…
overall international view of Colombia, right? Now, if you look at- That’s interesting. What you just said, I’m not gonna lie, is interesting on some level, but yeah, I can see where that’s not good for tourism to Colombia to think that’s what you’re gonna do in Colombia. Yeah, right. I mean, versus, for example, going up to the Sierra Nevada and Santa Marta, where the Kogi, the traditional groups of the Sierra Nevada, which are the Kogi, the Anahuacola, the Uiwa, and the Guancamos live and habitate
with cohabitating with all these different tribes and the coca plant, which is the native and sacred plant to not only the community but also in Peru and Bolivia, they utilize that as a sacred mother plant which they utilize for their ceremonies or a lot of different things including alleviating fatigue and altitude sickness, totally different experience with the plant than what these kinds of dark tourism people are trying to promote, right?
Jason Elkins (38:19.402)
So I’m so happy, so happy you brought that up because I remember when my son first visited me here and we went up to Park A RV and there’s a little shop on the side of the road and they had a cocoa leaf tea or whatever. And I had only been here a couple of weeks and I was like, well, honestly, I was kind of like, I did not understand. And my son’s like, ooh, I want to try it. Like, no, your mom will never let you travel with me again. So it took a little while to get through that. So I’m happy that you’re mentioning it because yeah, when people come here.
It’s actually, it’s cool to get involved in that part of it. Just because they use this particular leaf, you know, derivative of that eventually ends up being something that’s not so good. I mean, we could say that about a lot of things, right? A lot of alcohol is made out of stuff that we put our peanut butter and jelly on, you know what I mean? It’s just, and it’s an important thing. And so for me, it’s more about that, right? So like, if you take…
And there’s a lot of people, Wade Davis, I don’t know if you know about Wade Davis, I actually am a big fan of Wade Davis. He’s a Canadian ethnobotanist and he came to Colombia in the seventies to actually study the coca plant. He was the first foreigner to actually come and actually do it in a professional laboratory type of way to understand the plant. And not only the botany of it, but the
ethnicity, like the ethno aspects of it, like the culture of the people. They’ve written a lot about it and it’s really cool to see that and how that really is one of the really unfortunate aspects of a plant that is so fantastic for so many medicinal purposes and it’s been turned into something so devastating and so bad for so many people. There’s a whole bunch of discussion around that. It’s still happening. We’re at a record high of coca leaf production right now. It’s really ridiculous.
the amount of deforestation and everything that’s happening in Colombia around that, the demand is still super high. So we can go into a whole conversation about how situations in North America and Europe are causing more demand because there’s just a whole, there’s a direct link around that. But in my purpose right now is to actually work with organizations that are preventing deforestation that are actually doing a lot of work to help these farmers.
Jason Elkins (40:38.454)
get money from planting trees and protecting the forest instead of chopping them down and planting coca. It’s hard because coca is a lot of, it’s really, you know, you get good money from planting coca leaf. And so it’s, again, this constant battle of preserving nature, preserving these places, having people enjoying them and having tourists pay top dollar, appreciating the whole aspect that they’re contributing to, and then also building all that network of people and…
teaching them, training them, and having them also have the understanding of why we’re doing what we’re doing, so that they have a better outcome with the land that they have. So again, so many things we can have conversations about. There’s one more thing, I don’t even know if you wanna go there with this, but one thing that does come up, it’s kind of related is other plant-based medicinal plants, ceremonial stuff, ayahuasca, other things like that. So in Colombia we call it ya-hay.
ayahuasca is, so Colombia, just like many other places in South America, has a very strong shamanic tradition. There’s tribes in Colombia, I think there’s currently still like 56 tribes that are actively participating in the culture of Colombia and they most of them coming from the Amazonian area and they’ll come to from where like Menedine and then they’ll set up shop and then be like, okay, cool for Colombians and for tourists.
we have a space where you can safely do ayahuasca or yagé, as it’s called in Colombia. And they set up the whole experience for tourists and for locals, right? But it’s very much ceremonial. So there’s that, there’s a ton of processes that if you go further south into Colombia to Putumayo and to Valpés and those areas where there’s actually full communities of Amazonian tribes and stuff, they fully…
It’s hard to get in there as a tourist, but there’s definitely opportunities to do that. I’m curious, does your company assist people that want to have that experience or be exposed to that? Or is that outside of your wheelhouse? No, so yeah, we’ve never had anyone ask us for any of that kind of experience. In the 13 plus years that we’ve been operating, we’ve never had anybody ask us for that. But we also don’t offer it because for us,
Jason Elkins (43:02.13)
it’s kind of a liability in many ways. Yeah, no, I get it. We can’t, we know that if we offer you an experience that we’ve done and that we have some, you know, expectations around it, it can be whatever it is. It could be a mountain bike trip, it could be a water rafting trip, bird watching, it could be a coffee experience, it could be whatever it might be, right? A culinary experience. We have some set parameters. If you go do your ayahuasca.
We have no idea what’s gonna happen. We know- Who knows what the outcome’s gonna be. We know the location, we know the benefits and the amenities that are gonna be exposed, you know, the offer. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. And even if my understanding, and I don’t have experience with it, but my understanding is even if all those variables that you’re talking about are taken care of, it’s a very individual experience. Correct. That nobody can control, nobody can even tell you what you’re gonna experience.
So I can see why you might not want to touch that. So we haven’t offered it, but we usually get people saying, I want to do this. For example, perfect example is, I just was talking to a guy last week, he wants to go to Salento. Salento has been on the tourist map for a long time. It’s got the famous wax palms. It’s become a massive tourist trap in the last five years. So what we said was like, you know, wax palms are everywhere. I have a property in Colombia that has massive amounts of wax palms. It’s not just Salento.
So we started looking around and we found another place called Salamina. It’s in the opposite direction. It’s got way more wax palms.
Actual real.
Jason Elkins (44:41.042)
Bonio Pueblo, son.
Is it, so, this is only like 50 years old. This other town is 120 years old. All the tradition. Daniel, just a moment there. We’re going to edit that out. Cause I think. Yeah, we lost the signal completely. Hopefully we got it back. Yeah. Where I heard was he wanted to go to Salento, but we’ve got this other place, different direction, way more wax palms. So we talked about that. So if you want to pick up somewhere there, I’ll try and edit together. So let’s do it this way. So you’re talking about.
Salento, he wanted to go to Salento, but you’ve got this other area, so. Right, so unfortunately it has become a very massive tourist trap. And so we said, we can look around and find you another place. So this place called Salamina, it’s an actual patrimonial pueblo. It was founded 125 years ago, has all the beautiful architecture. And when we started sending people there, the people would come back and be like, this was, they were blown away. They were the only tourists.
Nobody spoke English. The architecture is gorgeous. The food is pretty decent. And then we would take him in a Jeep Willy, which is the traditional Jeeps that are found in the region, about an hour drive through these wax palm forests. And I’m talking about like forests, not like in South End, when it was like one or two years, like covered and then you get to this family farm, that day saw the opportunity and it was just his family and this guy learned English. He learned how to run his business. He’s 18 years old, his name’s Alex. And we send people to him and he’s just like,
knows everything about wax palms now, knows everything about how to do the interpretation of the environment, learn English like I just said, and people just love it. And so we started sending people there and you can also adopt a palm. So for one time, $20 donation, they basically planned a wax palm for you. So all these kind of fun things. So what should people know that aren’t familiar with Colombia and don’t know?
Jason Elkins (46:42.609)
And a lot of people don’t even know. Sorry, go ahead. Okay. Hang on a sec. How’s your signal? Look.
Not better, it was a little loose, it was a little soft a moment ago, but not better. Okay, so for those that are listening and they hear you saying wax palms, I don’t know much about wax palms, I know what they are, but what should people know about wax palms and why do people wanna go to see wax palms? Right, right, okay, good point, good point. Okay, so maybe we need to step back a little bit. Like I was saying before, Colombia is usually number one on pretty much the entire list of anything that has to do with nature. That includes…
Colombia has, I’m not exactly sure the number, but it’s over 250 species of palms, the most palms in any other country in the world. And one of those is the wax palm. The wax palm is the tallest palm in the world. And the reason why it’s called the wax palm is because the leaves are coated with a thin wax. And there’s about four different species of this wax palm. The most famous one is the one that you see in Salento.
The reason why it’s also the national tree of Colombia, technically it’s not a tree, but that’s the national tree of Colombia. And because it was almost, it’s critically endangered because they were using it to use the wax on Palm Sunday. And also, sorry, they’d use the leaves of the palms on Palm Sunday and also the wax to make candles and other types of wax products. So for many years, they would cut down these trees or they would let them die. But the most amazing things about these palm trees
is that they are not only the tallest, so they can be up to 60 meters tall, which is, I mean, I don’t know in feet because I’d have to do the conversion really quickly. That’s like 150 feet or something like that. Yeah, they’re super, super tall. Pretty tall. Right, so not only are they the tallest in the world, they’re only found in Colombia and small parts of Venezuela, like we’re predominantly in Colombia. There’s only one, there’s one bird, that’s the yellow-eared parrot that lives there. It’s the only place that they will ever live, so that’s their natural habitat.
Jason Elkins (48:49.918)
And then ultimately they’re the longest living palms of that size. They live up to about a hundred to 130 years old. So slow growing and then they live a really long time. So they have some very unique characteristics. So it became the national palm tree, national tree of Colombia, I should say in 1985. And then now there’s been this huge effort to reforest them and to protect the areas where there are. So that’s one of the reasons why people, if you look up Salento,
in Colombia, not in Portland, not in Sicily, you will see that there’s all these wax bombs, people taking pictures with them and etc. And it’s an interesting landscape for sure. All right. That’s very cool. I have not been to that area yet. I have not seen a wax bomb, but I will. It’s just down the road for me now. So I thank you for sharing that. I really I didn’t know then. This place is just even in Medellin though. Like I remember
I was here a few days and I was walking down the street and I heard some crazy noises and I looked up on the side of a building and there were parents on this side. They sound like dogs. I thought they were dogs barking at each other. I think they sound like tackling hens or something. There’s just some- Yeah, they’re just like this weird like, and then I’ve seen like Scarlett McCoy. I remember I was up in one of the high rises at a WeWork working one day and I look out and this Scarlett McCoy goes flying by and I’m in a city with four or 5 million people and there’s big stands of the-
of the bamboo, it’s just amazing. So anybody listen to this, whatever fears, concerns you’ve had about it. I mean, you know, reach out to someone like Daniel, obviously they can help you address your unique situation because not everybody is gonna buy a one-way ticket and an Airbnb. But whatever’s holding you back, you will not be sorry, you will not regret it. Daniel, I feel like we could have 14, 15, 16 episodes just about Colombia. I probably will start a Colombia pop test
I love it so much. It’s home. As I was saying to you earlier, I just got back here a couple of weeks ago and I felt like I just got home. And so it’s fascinating. What else, what is there that I should have asked you? What did I fail to ask you? What do you want to make sure that people get out of this before we wrap it up? Absolutely. Well, I think, well, first of all, thanks again for the invitation. It’s always a great opportunity to share the love about and information about Colombia and
Jason Elkins (51:13.066)
Really right now it’s like go on to Colombia EcoTravel, our website or even Colombia’s national brand travel. There’s a brand new campaign and the campaign for Colombia is the country of beauty. And so the whole idea is really emphasizing our nature, which is obviously our core business and what we do, but there’s so many more things. And I really think that people should be open to discovering.
places like Colombia because as we said a moment ago, it is a well-kept secret. And when people do go, you’re the perfect example, right? You’ve been there now, just recently and then before, and you’re like one of the ambassadors now of Colombia, I’m sure. And so many people are like, you were saying, no, like I’m, yes, I’m one of them. I’m the one who’s sitting in front of you right now. Yeah. But I’ll tell you, and especially once you go, all of a sudden you’ll notice like everybody else is like,
you’ll all of a sudden notice your friends on Facebook are going to Colombia and you’re like, I never really thought that much about Colombia, but all of a sudden everybody’s bragging about it, talking about it, shouldn’t be bragging, raving about it. So yeah, yeah. So I mean, other than that, I mean, if anybody loves birds, like bird watching, anybody loves orchids or any type of flower, if anybody loves really good, well-made meats and other types of, type of like that kind of food, not as good as in Argentina, but still pretty good.
interesting cuisine. If you like amazing, amazing landscapes that are that almost like change around every bend of the road, there’s places I mean, you’ve experienced this, you’re just driving, it’s like, wow, it really is like that. And, and you know, it’s just such a diverse, diverse and unique country in so many ways that you can easily spend. I spent three months and only discovered my first
official real trip to Colombia as a scouting trip. I spent three and a half months and I only really discovered less than a quarter of it. And instead, living there for 10 years, there’s only basically there’s only two spots that I didn’t go to because they were just too unsafe to go to. But otherwise, everywhere you go, it’s just everything’s so majestic and so wow. It’s like, it’s just incredible. And I think that for people who can go, they should go, or who would like to mention.
Jason Elkins (53:35.638)
Yeah, I’m going to mention one more because you said if you like birds, if you like nature, if you like meats and all this stuff, and I know that it underlies all this and I know that you’re thinking it, but I’m going to say it because from my perspective, I would say if you love people, if you love, if you love people, I, I love people. I’ve been a lot of places, but if you love people, if that’s the only thing you like, I would say that’s enough to come to Colombia. No, well, yeah, it is. Culture.
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. The culture comes out from this exuberance of life, right? It’s just an extension of all the life that you experience. People are happy. That’s why it’s always ranked in the top two or three happiest places on earth. People are so happy. There’s 365 days in the year, and I believe that there’s 347 days in the year in Colombia that there’s some sort of festival experience, some sort of activity. It’s a national… A soccer game or something.
is and then also there’s 33 or 38 I can’t remember exactly the number national holidays so there’s a lot of partying going on all the time I think we have the most national holidays either we in Switzerland somebody like that like every other weekend is a three-day weekend there’s always a reason to party there’s always a reason to have a get together there’s always a reason to enjoy life and that really that is the extension of the exuberance of life that you can
Jason Elkins (55:01.954)
And even if you don’t speak the language, they’ll figure out a way to communicate and connect with you. Oh yeah, it’s so much fun. And as I’m listening to you as I wrap it up, I’m thinking, how lucky am I that I’m gonna wrap up this conversation with you. I’m gonna walk down the street now and get a coffee and a croissant or whatever the Galciabunuelo or something. Pandewanu? Have you tried the pandewanu? Oh, I see, yeah. Yeah, I’ve tried it all.
If I see something at the Penadria that I don’t recognize, that’s what I’m gonna get. And it’s been amazing. But as I walked, it’s three or four blocks away, I’m not in, trust me, I’m not in a tourist area. And I’m sure I’ll have five or six people say, Buenas tardes, caballero, como estas, or whatever, there’ll be some sort of greeting. And that doesn’t happen back home. I’m gonna say that doesn’t happen back home, but I’ve decided this is home for me now.
Well, I’m glad to hear that. It’s absolutely rude to walk down the street, other than the big, big cities, even in Medellin, I’ve said hi to people. But it’s absolutely rude to pass by somebody in the street and not say, Wendy or one of the yes or whatever, just to say a quick hello. If you don’t say that, people will think something’s weird with you. Something’s, you know, they’ll think you’re- Yeah, and I’ve noticed- And then second thing, going into an elevator. I don’t know if you’ve experienced that. Ah, yeah, yeah. Always, everyone goes to the elevator.
They say hello to the entire group when they’re leaving, they say goodbye. I’ve started doing that here in the US and people are just like, wow, yeah, thank you. Thank you, I will have a good day. But I think that you need to spread more of that love and more of that joy. It doesn’t take anything away from you to actually be nice, be kind and just say hi to people. Look them in the eye when you’re walking down the street, get them off your phone, stop looking around, just look at people. That’s what I’ve started doing after coming back from living almost a decade in Colombia. I literally just…
say hi to people all the time. And you can just see them automatically. It lights them up. It lights me up, you know, partially because I’m not so used to it. And I grew up in the Rocky Mountain West where people are like, you drive down the dirt roads, people wave at each other. But this is like a whole new level. And it’s not just the Buenos dias, it’s the como estas, how are you? Like if you walk into a tienda shop to buy a pack of gum, there’s this whole little exchange.
Jason Elkins (57:21.366)
Hola, como estas? Oh, estoy bien y tu? Excelente, gracias. And then you start negotiating the business transaction. And we have to learn this. It’s about people first, always. As someone from outside, we have to remember that because like my natural habit is to walk in and say, I would like a Coke, please. And then I forget that part. So you gotta remind you, you know, or if you’re sending message, you’re written messages. Yes. Oh yeah. If you’re texting someone. You don’t say good morning.
someone, did you go to bed with me last night? That’s like a typical response, like what did we go to sleep together last night? Why are you so sad? Because I’m a single guy and I’m dating, so I’m learning some of that stuff. It’s like, you know, that first message needs to be… It’s a very… So last thing I’ll say, in general, the culture is… So for many, many years, it was a very closed culture, right? Nobody would come in, nobody would leave,
because why would you go to Colombia? You had crime, you had gangs, you had murders, you had all these bad things. So they had to develop their economy internally. They had partners like France, for example, which was always a long time partner, but in the UK and Ireland, but the economy was closed. Almost every single company that you see in Colombia is a Colombian company. There’s very little external, then now there’s more, but 10 years ago,
you would walk in or even when I was going as a child, nothing really, everything was Colombian. So the culture is very closed and it’s just now opening up. So it’s very conservative, it’s very formal. There’s a lot of formality. As you mentioned earlier, walking around in your flip-flops and shorts, how many Colombians walk around in shorts? How many of them do flip-flops? They don’t, they just don’t. Everybody- Yeah, I said that as a joke, by the way. Anybody listening? Yeah. Do not, yeah.
It’s not a great way to make friends and gain a lot of positive attention if you show up with your flip flops. Right. Well, I was always wearing flip flops. Yeah? Everybody would make fun of me. All my Colombian friends would make fun of me. It’s like why you get out and show up to business events and flip flops. Because that’s kind of as confident as you. I want to be in. That’s my signature thing now. I think it’s like because people started commenting that I was always wearing flip flops. So I started doing that. So they were like, you know, I don’t know if that was a bad thing. But it seems to have worked for you.
Jason Elkins (59:44.834)
But you know what? It was 75, 80 degrees every single day. And I realized that I’d rather wear flip-flops and be comfortable than wear clothes, toe-to-toes and not be comfortable. Just, that’s just me. And I’m there to do business and to build relationships. I don’t care if they see my toes or not, right? I don’t care. That’s cool. I like that outlook. That’s a, maybe I need to reassess something. I think that if you’re courteous, if you’re kind and you’re courteous and you’re actually genuinely interested in people, like you’re just saying, because they’re genuinely interested in you, you have a great time in Colombia.
All right, cool. Well, Daniel, I look forward to seeing you in person. I’ll still be here in December, so let’s make sure we connect. Absolutely. I’m not sure when people are gonna listen to this, but I’m super excited to share it with the world because it’s obviously one of my favorite topics with one of my favorite new friends. So Daniel, thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it very much.
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