Guest Bio
Douglas Grimes is the President and Co-founder of MIR Corporation, a Seattle-based travel company specializing in destinations at the crossroads of Europe and Asia. His journey into the travel industry began in the mid-1980s when he organized a goodwill volleyball tour to the Soviet Union, fostering connections that led to the establishment of MIR in 1986. With over 35 years of experience, Douglas has been instrumental in pioneering travel experiences across Russia, Central Asia, and beyond.
Show Summary
In this episode, Douglas Grimes shares his unique path from organizing sports exchanges to leading a travel company that specializes in culturally immersive journeys. He discusses the challenges and rewards of operating in regions undergoing significant political and social transformations, the importance of sustainable tourism, and the role of travel in fostering global understanding. Douglas also reflects on MIR’s commitment to connecting travelers with the rich histories and cultures of its destinations.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Innovative Beginnings: Leveraging personal passions can lead to unique business opportunities.
- ✓ Cultural Immersion: Deep engagement with local communities enriches travel experiences.
- ✓ Adaptability: Navigating geopolitical changes requires flexibility and resilience.
- ✓ Sustainable Tourism: Responsible travel practices are essential for preserving destinations.
- ✓ Global Connections: Travel fosters mutual understanding and peace among diverse cultures.
What You’ll Find on MIR Corporation’s Platform
- ✓ Custom Journeys: Tailored itineraries to destinations across Europe and Asia.
- ✓ Small Group Tours: Expert-led trips focusing on cultural and historical themes.
- ✓ Rail Journeys: Expeditions aboard legendary trains like the Trans-Siberian Railway.
- ✓ Overland Expeditions: Cross-continental adventures through remote regions.
- ✓ Special Interest Tours: Trips centered around festivals, culinary experiences, and more.
👉 Visit MIR Corporation’s Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Douglas Grimes’ contributions to adventure travel.
Learn more about MIR Corporation and connect with Douglas at:
https://www.mircorp.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Okay, everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast. Today, we’ve got Doug Grimes. He is the president of MIR Corporation. Doug, so happy to have you here on the show. Welcome. Thank you. Yeah, Doug, last time we spoke, you shared some stories of fascinating places that you’ve been the very few of our listeners, I’m sure I’ve had the opportunity to visit and I definitely want to get into that.
Douglas Grimes (01:34.734)
Thank you. I’m happy to be here.
Jason Elkins (01:49.212)
And before we get into that, I’d love to learn a little bit about you, kind of what got you into this and kind of a little bit about your story. So we can just kind of connect with you on that level. So where would you like to start? Well.
Douglas Grimes (02:00.27)
Sure. Well, in the very beginning, I would have to say my parents, I think I mentioned this, my parents were sort of peaceniks. And got me involved with citizen exchanges with the Soviet Union and actually my first trip there was a volleyball exchange. My father was a coach for many years. And that’s how I…
Jason Elkins (02:05.268)
beginning I would have to say my parents I think I mentioned this my parents were sort of the key snips.
got me involved with citizen exchanges with the Soviet Union. And actually my first trip there was a volleyball exchange. And that’s how I got hooked, I would say. Wow, how old were you when you did that trip?
Douglas Grimes (02:29.774)
got hooked, I would say.
Douglas Grimes (02:34.83)
I was 27 and it wasn’t actually that long after that that I started the company because I started, I came back from that volleyball trip which was right at the beginning of kind of perestroika and glasnost for those of you who remember that from Gorbachev’s time. It was a…
Jason Elkins (02:37.738)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (02:49.076)
I started, I came back from that volleyball trip, which was right at the beginning of kind of Perestroika and Glasnost, for those of you who remember that, from Gorbachev’s time, it was a sort of restructuring and opening up of the Soviet Union. And there was a lot of changes and stuff happening. And so we started near and…
Douglas Grimes (03:01.774)
sort of restructuring and opening up of the Soviet Union. And there was a lot of changes and stuff happening. And so we started Mir and Mir Corporation, actually, which was kind of interesting, or Korporatsiya was the Russian version at that time, mainly because there was this idea that
Jason Elkins (03:16.1)
near corporation, actually, which was kind of interesting, or corporatia was the Russian version at that time, mainly because there was this idea that companies were, from Soviet times, were not good. Okay. And we were trying to break down this sort of stereotype that…
Douglas Grimes (03:30.542)
companies or from Soviet times were not good. And we were trying to break down this sort of stereotype that, you know, corporation was not a bad word at the time. And myr means peace and world in Russian. It also means world in Ukrainian and some other Slavic languages. So
Jason Elkins (03:44.46)
you know, corporation was not a bad word. And at the time, and Mir means peace and world in Russian. It also means world in Ukrainian and some other Slavic languages. So that’s where the name came from. You know, I really enjoyed.
Douglas Grimes (03:59.886)
That’s where the name came from. I really enjoyed my trips there. I got heavily involved with travel and doing these exchanges at first, which was like a two-part exchange. So we would take a group of, say, doctors and travel around different cities and visit
Jason Elkins (04:10.428)
my trips there, I’ve got heavily involved with travel and doing these exchanges at first, which was like a two-part exchange. So we would take a group of doctors and travel around different cities and visit with Soviet doctors. And then six months later, we would host a group of doctors in the US. Oh, wow. I’m curious. Doug was
Douglas Grimes (04:29.646)
with Soviet doctors. And then six months later, we would host a group of doctors in the US.
Jason Elkins (04:40.576)
was the, I guess the Soviet government at the time, were they involved in the corporation at all or, you know, without going into great detail of how you were set up, I’m just curious where, was this a part, a partnership or something you were just doing on your own?
Douglas Grimes (04:51.918)
No, uh…
Well, it was a partnership, but it was through a kind of secondary travel company that was under the trade union organization. So there’s this, at that time, most people kind of remember there was Intourist, which was kind of a government sponsored for foreign tourists. There was something called Sputnik, which was for youth travel. And then there was this central council for tourism excursion.
Jason Elkins (04:57.373)
but it was through…
Jason Elkins (05:01.856)
travel company that was a trade union organization. So there’s this, at that time, most people kind of remember there was Intourist, which was kind of a government sponsored for foreign tourists. There was something called SplitNic, which was for youth travel. And then there was this central council for tourism excursion, which was for commie comm countries. So when somebody from…
Douglas Grimes (05:23.854)
which was for Kami-Kam countries. So when somebody from communist Czechoslovakia came to Moscow, they would have their travel arrangements done through them. And I kind of entered this backdoor arrangement with them to be able to do these exchanges. And well, anyway, it went very well. We did a lot of trips. We worked with a lot of nonprofit organizations.
Jason Elkins (05:28.76)
communist Czechoslovakia came to Moscow, they would have their travel arrangements done through them. And I kind of entered this back door arrangement with them to be able to do these exchanges. Well, it went very well. We did a lot of trips. We worked with a lot of nonprofit organizations.
Douglas Grimes (05:51.854)
Even Patch Adams was one of my clients for many years. He would go and clown around in Russia every winter and visit. We’d set up visits to children’s hospitals and orphanages. Then of course, the Soviet Union started to fall apart. Basically when it collapsed, we had to reimagine our business model as a company.
Jason Elkins (05:53.396)
Adam’s was one of my clients for many years. He would go and clown around in Russia every winter and visit, you know, we’d set up visits to children’s hospitals and orphanages and, and you know, then of course the Soviet Union started to fall apart and basically when it collapsed we had to sort of reimagine our business model as a company and
Douglas Grimes (06:21.39)
and started with 17 new countries and kind of promoting those places more, I would say, more general tourism and kind of cultural tourism and some active adventure. And so since then, that’s what we’ve been focused on as a company and, you know, had lots of.
Jason Elkins (06:23.54)
started with 17 new countries and kind of promoting those places more, I would say, more general tourism and kind of cultural tourism and some active, active adventure. And so since then, that’s what we’ve been focused on as a, as a company and, you know, had lots of.
Douglas Grimes (06:49.55)
experience in doing lots of different things just because of our unique, I would say, position in the industry was more we are specialists in these regions and these areas. And if you want to go there and do something, whether it’s private or a group or some unusual thing like Blue Planet Run, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that, but that was a run around the world.
Jason Elkins (06:49.956)
experience in doing lots of different things just because of our unique, I would say, position in the industry was more we are specialists in these regions and these areas. And if you want to go there and do something, whether it’s private or group or some unusual thing like Blue Planet Run, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that.
That was a run around the world and we handled all the logistics from basically the Belarusian border to the Sea of Japan. Wow. And it was a 24 hour non-stop run with a…
Douglas Grimes (07:17.326)
and we handled all the logistics from basically the Belarusian border to the Sea of Japan. And it was a 24-hour non-stop run with people passing a baton. So one person would do 10 kilometers, pass it to somebody, and it was all day, all night. It never stopped. And so it was
Jason Elkins (07:34.936)
people passing a baton. So one person would do 10 kilometers, pass it to somebody, and it was all day, all night. It never stopped. Wow. And so it was for a travel company, it was a very logistically challenging arrangement because we had eight.
Douglas Grimes (07:44.974)
For a travel company, it was a very logistically challenging arrangement because we had eight, I think, 11 vehicles. And they were kind of one passing the other. And then somebody had to drive to the next city to sleep. So they were ready in the middle of the night and vice versa. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (07:53.88)
I think 11 vehicles and they were kind of one passing the other. And then somebody had them drive, you know, to the next city to sleep, you know, so they were ready in the middle of the night. Oh my gosh. Literally a lot of moving parts, a tough, a tough operation to run. I’m sure it’s a, yeah, it’s, it sounds complicated. I’m, I’m curious when you said the Soviet union kind of fell apart and you had to reimagine, I think is the word you used, did it.
Douglas Grimes (08:15.182)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (08:24.44)
get easier or more complicated? Because you had a lot of the ins and the connections and the partnerships that just kind of, I guess, probably crumbled a little bit, some of them. So did life get easier for you? Was it?
Douglas Grimes (08:38.477)
It was definitely more challenging, I would say, especially in the beginning. I had kind of, honestly, sort of pre-breakup of the Soviet Union had started working with setting up a small private enterprise actually in Russia to also start handling travel arrangements and stuff away from this.
Jason Elkins (08:40.408)
Definitely more challenging, I would say, especially in the beginning. I had kind of, honestly, sort of pre-breakup of the Soviet Union had started working with setting up a small private enterprise, actually in Russia, to also start handling travel arrangements and stuff away from this.
Douglas Grimes (09:07.854)
trade union organization. And so we had a little bit of a head start already.
Jason Elkins (09:12.88)
trade union organization. And so we had a little bit of a head start already. Was that because you saw kind of the, you were able to kind of see what was happening or did that just, you just were doing that independently or?
Douglas Grimes (09:21.486)
I think it was, I mean, I certainly didn’t expect that things would break up so quickly in that, but it was a time of opening. And so there was these new kind of free enterprise companies, they call them cooperatives, which was kind of the first step in allowing small business enterprise in the Soviet Union at the time. And I thought, oh, we should be supporting that. And so I had a…
Jason Elkins (09:23.972)
I mean, I certainly didn’t expect that things would break up so quickly in that, but it was a time of opening and so there was these new kind of free enterprise companies, they call them cooperatives, which was kind of the first step in allowing small business enterprise in the Soviet Union at the time. And I thought, oh, we should be supporting that. And so I had to found a partner.
Douglas Grimes (09:50.734)
found a partner and he was already doing some things and we kind of added the travel element to it. And that was sort of the beginning. And then I think it was like almost every year after that, I had to like re-register a new entity because it kept changing so much. And, you know, but we did. And actually it was kind of a good thing we did because the very main contact with the trade unions that I had.
Jason Elkins (09:52.704)
He was already doing some things and we kind of added the travel element to it. That was sort of the beginning. And then I think it was like almost every year after that, I had to like re-register the entity because it kept changing so much, you know, but we did. And actually it was kind of a good thing we did because.
very main contact with the trade unions that I had, and had established over the years was a fellow who was quite high up in the organization. And he kind of just disappeared one day. Okay. I think I have a feeling he like went to Cyprus or something. Uh-huh. But I never heard from him again actually.
Douglas Grimes (10:20.75)
and had established over the years was a fellow who was quite high up in the organization. And he kind of just disappeared one day. I think I have a feeling he like went to Cyprus or something. But I never heard from him again, actually ever. So it was a good thing that we had this other kind of setup because it allowed us to move forward.
Jason Elkins (10:43.3)
Okay. So it was a good thing that we had this other kind of setup because it allowed us to move forward, you know, without a gap or anything like that. And, but in terms of challenge, of course, then it was all these new countries kind of figuring out, okay, who’s the charge and like, you know, so it was almost like starting over, it pretty much was. I can imagine, I can imagine
Douglas Grimes (10:50.638)
without a big gap or anything like that. And, but in terms of challenge, of course, then it was all these new countries kind of figuring out, okay, who’s in charge and like, so it was almost like starting over. It pretty much was starting over as a company, yeah.
Jason Elkins (11:13.856)
kind of patterns or routines in place that then when all of a sudden you’ve got all these individual countries, there are probably a lot of just trying to figure stuff out on every level. And the, the history of, you know, or the past anyway, that the way it’s set up isn’t going to work in this new world, but the patterns are still there and the attitudes and ideas, I’m sure probably took a little while to get shifted. I’m
Douglas Grimes (11:24.686)
Exactly. Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (11:41.806)
Yeah, it was kind of like a wild, I would say wild east. People were figuring things out, and so were we. I mean, the business had to be kind of rebuilt at that time, too, because quite a few of the organizations that we worked with that were doing these exchanges suddenly decided, oh, we’ve kind of done our job, and we don’t need to do that anymore. And so we had to kind of go after a new market.
Jason Elkins (11:44.952)
in Wild East. You know, people were figuring things out. So were we. I mean, the business had to be kind of rebuilt at that time too, because quite a few of the organizations that we worked with that were doing these exchanges suddenly decided, oh, we’ve kind of done our job. We don’t need to do that anymore, you know? So we had to kind of go after a new market and…
Douglas Grimes (12:11.246)
and ourselves. And so it was kind of like, oh, okay, well, how are we going to do this now? You know, and it took a long time, too, because with that change, there was instability as well. And so it wasn’t that many people, you know, like, oh, let’s all go to Tajikistan now, you know. You know, it’s open. I mean, there was a few, but not
It wasn’t people like flooding like France or something. You know, let’s go to Paris.
Jason Elkins (12:44.776)
France or something. Right. Well, and as a tour operator that is trying to put together trips and, and send people on these trips, uncertainty is not something you want a lot of. That’s, that’s a challenge as a tour operator, because the people going on these trips expect us that’s their book and a trip with you because they want the certainty they want to kind of know what, what to expect from it. So I can imagine that was quite challenging and Doug, I want to take advantage of the opportunity that I have here because.
Douglas Grimes (13:06.574)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (13:14.404)
I think I’ve ever had a conversation with someone that knows as much about the former Soviet Union and then this, this whole thing that has happened. So I’m just going to probably not tourism related, but do you feel that the typical person and Russia or any one of these countries
generally feels that things are better off now, or are there still a lot of people that reflect back and say, well, it was easier in the past or what’s the general consensus of how people feel about everything with the Soviet Union collapse?
Douglas Grimes (13:48.462)
I think there’s, I would say it’s mixed. There definitely are still people that are nostalgic for those days and kind of remember the positive things. I would say that’s more of the older generation and that the younger generation has really embraced a more free enterprise and free press.
Jason Elkins (13:50.888)
I would say it’s mixed. There definitely are still people that are nostalgic for those days and kind of remember the positive things. I would say that’s more of the older generation. And that the younger generation has really embraced more free enterprise and free press.
Douglas Grimes (14:18.798)
looking forward and you know instead of backwards I would say you know given current situation it’s fairly difficult for me to like even talk about Russia to be honest with you. I still have a lot of you know contacts and friends there and stuff and you know I can tell you that they
Jason Elkins (14:19.896)
looking forward and instead of backwards, I would say, given current situation, it’s fairly difficult for me to even talk about Russia. Yeah, no, I get it, yeah. I still have a lot of.
Douglas Grimes (14:45.806)
At least in terms of my age or younger, they’re not supportive of this war and are afraid to speak out about it, actually. To me, that’s just sad. So having spent 36 years…
Jason Elkins (14:46.252)
At least in terms of my age or younger, they’re not supportive of this war.
Jason Elkins (14:57.552)
and are afraid to speak out about it actually. And that’s just sad. You know? Yep.
So yeah, having spent 36 years trying to foster the belief that we’re all people and people are people no matter where you are.
Douglas Grimes (15:13.902)
kind of trying to foster the belief that we’re all people and people are people no matter where you are. And actually we have, that’s interesting because one of the things that a lot of people visiting Russia felt there was like this kinship with the Russian people, you know, we’re very similar and kind of our, you know, just thoughts and culture.
Jason Elkins (15:26.648)
And actually we have, it’s interesting because one of the things that a lot of people visiting Russia felt there was like this kinship with the Russian people, you know, where we’re very similar, you know, kind of our, you know, just thoughts and culture and certain things anyway. That it was easy to get along with them. And, you know, I feel like that’s, you know, we’ve gone backwards, you know, a lot of years to.
Douglas Grimes (15:43.022)
certain things anyway, that it was easy to get along with them. And, you know, I feel like that’s, you know, we’ve gone backwards, you know, a lot of years to and then, you know, I’m not sure what’s going to happen.
Jason Elkins (15:56.556)
and then, you know, not sure what’s going to happen. Yeah, it’s a difficult situation for everyone involved and you’re closer to it than most Americans. So I appreciate you sharing that with us and I can also appreciate why we’re not going to go too much further into that. And though you said something else that was interesting. You said that…
Douglas Grimes (16:05.998)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (16:20.472)
At one point kind of as the Soviet Union collapsed, there were people that were like, okay, well, we did our job. We don’t need to do that anymore. So they go do whatever maybe they really wanted to do. I’m just curious, like, did you find like the people that you were interacting with prior to that time, let’s just say maybe a guide, let’s just call them a guide, a person that’s interacting with your guests. And you look at the…
guide profile back then compared to the guide profile maybe five years ago, six years ago. Did you find that the newer guides or the people that were doing it more recently were doing it because they wanted to do it and not because it was just the job that was assigned to them? Did you notice that difference?
Douglas Grimes (17:06.445)
I think that happened very early, you know, and not that short, like in the mid 1990s. There was a lot of, you know, I would say smart, you know, people with really good English that, you know, studied, you know, to be guides and wanted to, and that was really their desire. And, you know, some of them I know are still, you know, guides today, and they, you know, that’s what they want to do, and they love that job.
Jason Elkins (17:08.036)
I think that happened very…
Jason Elkins (17:16.776)
you know, I would say smart, you know, people with really good English that, you know, studied, you know, to be guides and wanted to, and that was really their desire.
Some of them I know are still guides today. And that’s what they want to do. And they love that job.
Douglas Grimes (17:36.046)
And so, yeah, I think it’s certainly more of a choice thing. And, you know, people in the industry, I mean, let’s face it, people get into travel, they it’s kind of hard to get out of it because you get hooked and, you know, it’s like you kept, you know.
Jason Elkins (17:40.9)
So yeah, I think it’s certainly more of a choice thing. And people in the industry, I mean, let’s face it, people who get into travel, it’s kind of hard to get out of it. Because you get hooked and it’s like, you know, I mean, I’ve traveled a lot myself. I’ve been to all of our, almost all our places.
Douglas Grimes (18:01.038)
I mean, I’ve traveled a lot myself. I’ve been to all of our, almost all our places and been to Russia over a hundred times and Central Asia and we have an office in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and one in Georgia, in Tbilisi, Georgia. And I travel to these place, a lot of the times the same places, but I’m always thinking about, oh, where haven’t I been yet too?
Jason Elkins (18:07.192)
been to Russia over a hundred times, and Central Asia, and we have an office in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, and one in Georgia, in Tbilisi, Georgia. And I travel to these place, a lot of the times the same places, but I’m always thinking about, oh, where haven’t I been? Or what’s my next trip gonna be?
Douglas Grimes (18:29.262)
or what’s my next trip going to be? It only lasts about a week or two when you’re home, and then you’re like, OK, where should I go next? It gets under your skin.
Jason Elkins (18:32.804)
It only lasts about a week or two in your home. Yeah, I, I do the same thing. I just like, I pull out my phone. I’m looking at flights all the time. I’m like, last time you and I spoke, we spoke a little bit about Georgia. And I had mentioned to you that I’d already been looking at like Airbnb’s there. And I was like, it’s so hard for me to stay put. And so I get that completely.
Douglas Grimes (18:55.79)
Ha ha.
Douglas Grimes (19:00.75)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (19:00.848)
And, uh, and, and also like back on the guide thing, I, I’m trying to imagine like a guide working with a guide that is doing it because his, somebody above him said, you’re going to be a guide. Your job is to escort people and make sure they take pictures of the right things and not the right, another thing, you know, and I’m like, yeah, that just doesn’t sound like a lot of fun to be with a guide like that, whereas
Douglas Grimes (19:14.19)
Yeah, yeah.
Douglas Grimes (19:25.902)
down.
Jason Elkins (19:26.692)
Typically guides in most places are doing it because they’re passionate about it. They’re excited about it. They want to have the engagement and the cultural exchange. So I kind of imagine that I’m sure it shifted probably pretty, pretty quickly. So it’s very cool.
Douglas Grimes (19:39.566)
Yeah, I did. I mean, it was not within a few years after the Soviet Union fell apart that I think the whole guide pool was different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (19:48.984)
in a few years. So you should be able to park there. The whole guide pool was just up there. You can imagine. Yep, that makes sense. So you also mentioned, you said, you know, you’re thinking about where have I not been? I guess I just want to ask a question. Magic Wand, you can go anywhere for, you know, let’s say a couple of weeks. Where would you go right now?
Douglas Grimes (20:10.382)
Oh, you know, that’s kind of a trick question in a little bit, because my first thought, to be honest with you, would be to go back to Georgia. It’s one of my favorite places. My partner and I, Annie, we have an apartment in Tbilisi. We like to go spend time there. We have some kind of tourism development projects that are not far from the capital.
Jason Elkins (20:17.28)
first thought, to be honest with you, it would be to go back to Georgia. It’s one of my favorite places. My partner and I, Annie, we have an apartment in Tbilisi, we like to go spend time there. We have some kind of tourism development projects that are not far from the capital. And so, you know, we’re always kind of scheming like, okay, when can we go back, you know?
Douglas Grimes (20:40.142)
So we’re always kind of scheming, like, okay, when can we go back? So that, I don’t know, that’s… Same time, there’s definitely some places on my list that I would like to go that I haven’t been. Like I’ve never been to India.
Jason Elkins (20:48.104)
So that, I don’t know, same time I, you know, there’s definitely some places on my list that I would like to go that I haven’t been. Like I’ve never been to India. Oh, okay. You know, never been to Egypt. Surprisingly, You know, so some places that maybe a lot of other people have been to that I haven’t, you know, because I
Douglas Grimes (21:02.894)
I’ve never been to Egypt, surprisingly. So some places that maybe a lot of other people have been to that I haven’t because I spend so much time going to our places. Yeah, right, right.
Jason Elkins (21:17.489)
so much time in places that most people have not been, very few people have been. You, and there’s a few, let’s dig into a couple of those because as I recall, you said that we discussed a little bit about North Korea and I’d love to kind of dig into that a little bit. What are you comfortable sharing with us about that experience and what do you think people should know? Yeah, well there was a, I think a wind
Douglas Grimes (21:30.606)
Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (21:37.422)
Yeah, well, there was a, I think a window in time that was pre Trump, let’s say, where things were, you know, kind of moving in a positive direction. It seemed like there was talks were starting and things were, you know, kind of opening up and, and it was okay to travel there. I mean, in general. So I went as a.
Jason Elkins (21:50.04)
moving in a positive direction. It seemed like there was talks were starting and things were kind of opening up and it was okay to travel there in general. So I went as a…
Douglas Grimes (22:07.054)
on a kind of representative trip, what was like an inspection trip. And I was the only American, but, there was like a couple from Germany and Swiss fellow and somebody from China and somebody from, so it was like a international kind of delegation of people from the travel industry. And we chart our own guide kind of watching after us and traveled around.
Jason Elkins (22:10.052)
representative trip, what was like an inspection trip. And I was the only American. There was like a couple from Germany and Swiss fellow and somebody from China and somebody, so it was like an international kind of delegation of people from the travel industry. And we chart our own guide kind of watching after us and traveled around.
Douglas Grimes (22:37.294)
Pyongyang and down to the DMZ, the demilitarization zone border, so between North Korea and South Korea and several other parts of the country. So that was kind of my introduction. I thought it was fascinating. It reminded me a lot of kind of really early days of the Soviet times and quite…
Jason Elkins (22:38.304)
Yang and down to the DMZ, the demonization zone border, so between North Korea and South Korea and several other parts of the country. So that was kind of my introduction. I thought it was fascinating. It reminded me a lot of really early days of Soviet times and, you know, quite
Douglas Grimes (23:04.334)
even more restrictive, I would say, in terms of what you can and can’t do. But still, it was an introduction to the people in the country and got to talk to people individually and kind of see the countryside.
Jason Elkins (23:04.84)
even more restrictive, I would say. Okay. In terms of what you can and can’t do. But still, you know, it was a introduction to the people in the country and you got to talk to people individually and kind of see the countryside. So what was the, I don’t wanna assume anything. It sounds like this is a.
Bring in some tour operators, show them all the great stuff that we have to offer so that maybe they will start bringing clients. Was that kind of the idea? And sponsored by the state, I assume.
Douglas Grimes (23:38.542)
Yeah, it was sponsored by the state tourism organization. And yeah, and that was the whole idea. And people did, people did started bringing trips, including us. We did a series of small group trips there over the next, I would say year. And some people might remember that was kind of right around the time when…
Jason Elkins (23:46.528)
Yeah, and that was the whole idea. And people did. People did start bringing trips, including us. We did a series of small group trips there over the next, I would say, year.
Douglas Grimes (24:08.014)
I think Dennis Rodman went to North Korea the first time. So it was around that time. Anyway, and I had some very interesting experiences there, which one I can just tell you quickly about was down at the DMZ. I was with this group and the DMZ tour is given by a guy in military uniform.
Jason Elkins (24:10.572)
the first time. So it was around that time. Anyway, and you know, I had some very interesting experiences there, which one I can just tell you quickly about was down at the DMZ. I was with, you know, this group and the DMZ tour is given by a guy in military uniform.
Douglas Grimes (24:36.942)
and you kind of wind your way in and there’s a multi-story building that sort of overlooks these three little houses where in each house the border is like in the middle of the house and there’s a table and there’s a line and you know anyway so he’s giving his little spiel and talking about how this is the DMZ and you know and if the Americans do this we will launch our nuclear weapons and destroy the United States you know.
Jason Elkins (24:37.408)
and you kind of wind your way in and there’s a multi-story building that sort of overlooks these three little houses where in each house the border is like in the middle of the house and there’s a table and there’s a line and you know anyway so he’s giving his little spiel and talking about how this is DMZ and
you know, that the Americans do this, we will launch our nuclear weapons and destroy the United States. Oh, wow. And, uh, and you know, you can take pictures. And so right after that, I go up to him like, I’m from the United States. Yeah. I said, okay, can I have a picture with you? And I just want you to know that, you know, Hey, we’re people just like you. And, you know,
Douglas Grimes (25:05.262)
And now you can take pictures. And so right after that, I go up to him like, I’m Doug Grimes. I’m from the United States. Yeah. Shake his hand. And he’s like, oh. And I said, OK, can I have a picture with you? And I just want you to know that, hey, we’re people just like you. And sometimes politics get in the way. And we should be friends. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (25:28.716)
sometimes politics get in the way. We should be friends. And how did he receive that? Yeah, he was a little standoffish at first, but yeah, he smiled and I said, well, you know.
Douglas Grimes (25:34.702)
And he’s like, oh, OK, yeah. Yeah, he was a little standoffish at first. But then, yeah, he smiled. And I said, well, what do you like to do for your spare time? Somehow we talked about that we both like beer. And so then the tour was over. And we came back to the place where the tour started. And there’s a gift shop where they sell stuff. And I go in, and I said, hey, do you guys have any beers? You know?
Jason Elkins (25:47.432)
Somehow we talked about that we both like beer. Ah, okay. And so then the tour was over and then we came back to the place where the tour started and there’s like a gift shop where they sell stuff. And I go in and I said, hey, you guys have any beers, you know? And they’re like, oh yeah, but it’s not cold. And do you want ice? And I’m like, no, just give me two cans of beer.
Douglas Grimes (26:04.078)
And they’re looking at me like, oh yeah, but it’s not cold and do you want ice? And I’m like, no, just give me two cans of beer. And bought the beers and then asked my guide, I said, hey, can I give this guy beer? She’s like, oh sure. So I went up and said, hey, it’s nice to meet you and I wanted you to buy your beer and here you go. And at first she’s like, oh no, no, oh no, I can’t take it. And the guide said, you know, and then the guide said something and he said, well, OK.
Jason Elkins (26:12.892)
and bought the beers and then asked my guide, I said, hey, can I give this guy beer? She’s like, well, sure. You know, so I went up and said, hey, it’s nice to meet you. And I wanted you to buy your beer and here you go. That’s cool. I go, no, I can’t take it. The guy said, you know, and then the guy said something.
He said, well, okay. He smiled. He took the beer. We made, I made a kind of small connection with him. And sure enough, my next, my second trip there, I came back and it was the same guy and he’s like, the beer guy. Oh, that, that is, yeah, that is so cool. And, and the guide, you, you mentioned the guide was there and kind of had a conversation with the soldier.
Douglas Grimes (26:33.614)
And so, you know, he smiled, he took the beer, you know, we made, I made a kind of small connection with him. And sure enough, my next, my second trip there, I came back and it was the same guy and he’s like, the beer guy, you know, and smiled, you know, so.
Jason Elkins (27:01.496)
Was, is, would you use the term kind of handler for the guide that you’re with? Is that kind of, he kind of gave the soldier permission to go ahead and accept the bear, it sounds like. Yeah. The guides there are, uh, yeah, responsible for the people.
Douglas Grimes (27:06.318)
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The guides there are responsible for the people and responsible to make sure you don’t leave the hotel at night and you’re not supposed to go out of the hotel by yourself at all. So yeah, to keep you safe and keep you out of trouble. So anyway, it was.
Jason Elkins (27:24.944)
To keep you safe. You’re not supposed to go out of the hotel by yourself at all. And that’s to keep you safe, right, Doug? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because, yeah.
Jason Elkins (27:37.448)
Anyway, it was.
Douglas Grimes (27:39.694)
It was a window in time. I mean, we haven’t done trips there since then, unfortunately, and it’s not really on the radar right now. But…
Jason Elkins (27:46.98)
Unfortunately, it’s not really on the radar right now. Well, I’m curious, though, because that’s your what I hear you saying is your business didn’t continue to take trips there for political, you know, political reasons, all that. But I’m curious about the tour operators from other countries. Have they continued doing trips or for some did.
Douglas Grimes (28:08.334)
Uh, for some did for a time, while after that, especially there was some operators out of China that were doing that. And I think they still are, but with certain restrictions, I mean, like in terms of who you can take with you. So right now, as far as I know, Americans are not able to travel there.
Jason Elkins (28:13.036)
especially there was some operators out of China that were doing.
I think there’s still are, but with certain restrictions, I mean, in terms of who you can take with you. Oh, okay. Right now, as far as I know, Americans are not able to travel there.
Douglas Grimes (28:38.062)
So.
Jason Elkins (28:39.277)
Okay. Are you, are you optimistic that you’ll be able to offer Trips? There’s, I mean, I know this is like, who knows, right? But I just, yeah.
Douglas Grimes (28:48.43)
Yeah, I don’t know. It’s hard to say. I mean, I think if somehow the relations between North and South kind of started talks again and maybe going in the right direction and it looked like things were going to kind of open up more, then it might be considered that as good timing. Honestly, right now we’re kind of focused on other areas. So.
Jason Elkins (28:58.247)
between North and South.
Jason Elkins (29:11.732)
consider that as good timing. If they, if they Right now we’re, you know, kind of focused on other areas. Yeah. That’s kind of where I was going with it was I was curious if like, if all of a sudden things are better and they said, okay, you can come back to North Korea. Like, would you be excited about that? Would you put a lot of effort and resources into that? Or do you feel like there’s just other opportunities out there for your clients that are maybe just better? I don’t know.
Douglas Grimes (29:17.966)
as a company.
Douglas Grimes (29:37.23)
I think there’s a lot of certainly a lot of opportunities in our current, you know, destinations we offer. And there’s a lot of people who have not been to some of those places or have just scratched the surface, you know. I would certainly consider it, you know, if the conditions were right, because, you know, we know a certain amount about it. I, you know, personally, been there three times.
Jason Elkins (29:38.308)
I think there’s a lot of, certainly a lot of opportunities in our current destinations.
Jason Elkins (29:47.376)
in to some of those places or just scratch the surface. I would certainly consider it, if the conditions were right, because we know a certain amount about it. I personally been there three times.
Douglas Grimes (30:07.022)
feel like we could maybe offer people in doing it with kind of the right guidance and perspective and stuff.
Jason Elkins (30:18.213)
out with the people and doing it with kind of the right guidance and perspective. Got it. So we’ve discussed Russia, we’ve discussed North Korea, both are places that not a lot of people are chomping at the bit to go right now or the limitation or even able to go I should say. So let’s shift focus to those places that you’re excited to send people to right now.
Douglas Grimes (30:20.494)
Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (30:26.702)
Right, right.
Douglas Grimes (30:35.406)
Right. Yeah, well, one of the kind of hot, hot areas for us and is doing really well, finally kind of recovered this year after, you know, being closed from COVID and that. And actually the last one of the last countries to finally open after COVID was Turkmenistan, which is in Central Asia. And we, you know, missed the spring window with them because they
Jason Elkins (30:48.804)
COVID and that, and actually the last, one of the last countries to finally open after COVID was Turkmenistan, which is in Central Asia. And we, you know, missed the spring window with them because they opened at the end of April. So, and the season for Central Asia is typically spring and fall because of the
Douglas Grimes (31:04.878)
Yeah, I think they opened at the end of April. So, and the season for Central Asia is typically spring and fall because of the desert climate there. It’s part of the old Silk Road. Uzbekistan is where kind of the, I would say the real gems of that region are in terms of some of the historical architecture and the…
Jason Elkins (31:16.296)
desert climate there. It’s part of the old Silk Road. Uzbekistan is where kind of the real gems of that region are in terms of some of the historical architecture and the beautiful blue minarets and blue tiled minarets and mosques and noble squares and fortresses.
Douglas Grimes (31:33.262)
beautiful blue minarets and blue tiled minarets and mosques and noble squares and portresses. The people themselves and the handicrafts and things like that have all come back and are flourishing now and tourism is kind of booming in the area actually.
Jason Elkins (31:44.556)
and the people themselves and the handicrafts and things like that have all come back and are flourishing now and tourism is kind of booming in the area actually. Less so for North Americans but there’s a lot of Europeans traveling there, there’s lots of people.
Douglas Grimes (32:01.422)
you know, less so for North Americans, but, you know, there’s a lot of Europeans traveling there. There’s lots of people from not only China, but also India, and really all over from different parts of the world.
Jason Elkins (32:13.432)
not only China, but also India, and really all over from different parts of the world. What do you think is getting in the way of more North Americans visiting? I think it’s just the knowledge of the, you know.
Douglas Grimes (32:28.238)
I think it’s just the knowledge of the, you know, in terms of, you know, knowing how great it is and, you know, what there is to see and experience there. But also it’s far. I mean, it’s literally from where I am, my home in Seattle, it’s exactly 12 hours different. So it’s on the other side of the globe. So you know, getting there is challenging in terms of, you know, how far you have to fly and…
Jason Elkins (32:35.416)
rate it is and what there is to see and experience there. But also it’s far. I mean, it’s literally from where I am, my home in Seattle, it’s exactly 12 hours difference. So it’s on the other side of the globe. So getting there is challenging in terms of how far you have to fly. And…
Douglas Grimes (32:57.006)
and of course expense for flying that far. But there’s more and more choices all the time for that. I think Turkish air now has five or six cities that they service just in Uzbekistan itself, directly from Istanbul. So it used to be just the capital cities, like Tashkent, and now there’s secondary cities even.
Jason Elkins (33:04.032)
You know, there’s more and more choices all the time for that. I mean, I think Turkish air now has, you know, five or six city that they service just in Uzbekistan itself, directly from Istanbul. So, you know, used to be just the capital cities, you know, like Tashkent. And now there’s like secondary cities even. I mean, some of them are like flights every day or four days a week.
Douglas Grimes (33:26.542)
I mean, some of them are like flights every day or four days a week. And like Tashkent itself, I think is like at least two flights a day or something like that. So, and not just them, but there’s United Arab Emirates, you know, Lufthansa has some service in there, Korean Air going the other direction from Seoul. You know, so there’s more and more access.
Jason Elkins (33:38.253)
and not just them but there’s United Air Memorandum, Lufthansa has some…
service in there, Korean Air going the other direction. So there’s more and more access seems to be coming on. I think that’s helping. One of our most popular trips that we do in the region is called Journey Through Central Asia, the Five Stands. So we claim.
Douglas Grimes (33:56.206)
seems to be coming on. And I think that’s helping. One of our most popular trips that we do in the region is called Journey Through Central Asia, The Five Stands. So we claim that we coined the five stands as a thing. I’m pretty sure we did. And it is, I think,
Jason Elkins (34:14.764)
that we coined the five stands as a thing. I’m pretty sure we did. And it is, I think, popular because you are kind of seeing not just one country, but you’re seeing five countries and the region all in one trip. Wow. 22 days long. And still you’re kind of moving quickly.
Douglas Grimes (34:25.742)
popular because you are kind of seeing not just one country, but you’re seeing five countries and the region all in one trip. That trip is like 22 days long and you know, you’re kind of moving quickly, you know, even with that to kind of take in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, you know, which is more…
Jason Elkins (34:43.608)
Yeah. Even with that to kind of take in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, you know, which is more, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, at least the parts we go to are more mountainous and kind of more…
Douglas Grimes (34:52.078)
Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, at least the parts we go to are more mountainous and kind of more, I would say, a little bit more adventurous. And then Uzbekistan is more kind of city-based and you’re going from sort of desert citadel city to the next desert citadel city. And Turkmenistan is like one of those places that most…
Jason Elkins (35:01.912)
I would say a little bit more adventurous. And then Uzbekistan is more kind of city-based and you’re going from sort of desert citadel city to the next desert citadel city. And Turkmenistan is like one of those places that most people don’t know anything about. And it was kind of, it’s a little bit like North Korea to be honest with you. It’s kind of…
Douglas Grimes (35:19.662)
people don’t know anything about and it’s kind of, it’s a little bit like North Korea, to be honest with you. It’s kind of, you know, controlled sort of society. It’s not as controlled, I would say, as North Korea, but anyway, it has that same sort of leadership down feel.
Jason Elkins (35:31.012)
you know, controlled sort of society. Doesn’t seem as, it’s not as controlled, I would say, but anyway, it has that same sort of leadership down feel.
Is it a socialist country still? I mean, are they still communist? I don’t, I’ll admit, I know almost nothing about the area, which is part of why I wanted to have this conversation with you. So, um. Well, the leadership there.
Douglas Grimes (35:59.63)
Yeah. Well, the leadership there is currently the president is the son of the previous president, who was the doctor of the original Soviet leader who died mysteriously and the doctor became the president.
Jason Elkins (36:05.872)
son of the previous president.
Douglas Grimes (36:26.414)
Yeah. Uh… Well, yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (36:27.976)
the original Soviet leader who died mysteriously when the doctor became a
Douglas Grimes (36:35.502)
Yeah, yeah. It’s a fascinating place, I think. It’s one of those kind of places that you want to go and sort of see for yourself to kind of understand it, understand the culture in that. They have one of the claim to fames as the most white marble of any city in the world is Ashgabat. Ashgabat was kind of built up. They have a little big natural gas.
Jason Elkins (36:48.536)
They have one of the claims of fames as the most white marble of any city in the world. Ah. Is Ashgabat. Ashgabat was kind of built up. They have a big natural gas.
Douglas Grimes (37:05.326)
underground in Turkmenistan. It’s one of the biggest reserves or something. And a matter of fact, one of the other famous places there is this famous pit of hell, it’s called. It’s the burning darvaza, which is a giant sinkhole in the desert that caught on fire after it.
Jason Elkins (37:07.66)
like underground, the biggest reserves or something. And a matter of fact, one of the other famous places there is this famous pit of hell. It’s called, it’s the burning darvaza, which is a giant sinkhole in the desert. Oh yeah, I’ve seen that. Under fire. Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (37:34.062)
I guess doing some kind of excavations or something in this like giant sinkhole. And then it’s been burning ever since, you know, and you can go out and stay in the middle of the desert, you know, near this. And it’s it’s this giant, you know, flaming kind of hole. And at night, it looks like a beam of light going up into space. And it’s yeah, it’s pretty interesting and something very, very different. You know,
Jason Elkins (37:34.948)
doing some kind of excavations or something in this like giant sinkhole and then it’s been burning ever since. And then you can go out and stay in the middle of the desert you know near this and it’s uh it’s this giant you know flaming kind of hole and at night it looks like a beam of light going up into you know space.
It’s pretty interesting and something very, very different. You know, anywhere else in the world. Yeah, I think I’ve seen that on YouTube or a documentary somewhere. And it’s like different colors, right? Are the flames or maybe I’m thinking of another spot. But it’s not really.
Douglas Grimes (38:03.662)
don’t see anywhere else in the world.
Douglas Grimes (38:15.886)
It’s not really, I mean, maybe at night, it’s a little bit different, but it’s basically natural gas that’s just burning, you know, and has been. And you can get fairly close to the edge, you can come up to it and see, you know, look into the pit and see the flames.
Jason Elkins (38:23.2)
It’s basically natural gas that’s just burning. Okay. All right. You can get fairly close to the edge. You can come up to it and see, you know, looking to the pit and see the flames. Good for Instagram photos too, I’m sure. Yeah. So there’s a nice yurt camp now close by. So you can overnight there.
Douglas Grimes (38:39.854)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And there’s a nice yurt camp now close by so you can overnight there and it has proper facilities and stuff. Used to be it just, you could, the only way to stay there was like set up a tent. We would arrange like a tent camp for one night or something. But now there’s a nearby yurt camp facility with a restaurant and places to stay in regular.
Jason Elkins (38:51.324)
It used to be it just peaked. The only way to stay there was like set up a tent, you know. We’d do the range. Tent camp for one night or something. Right. Now there’s a nearby camp facility with a restaurant. You know, places to stay and regular power, bathrooms, or shepherds and everything. All right.
Douglas Grimes (39:08.814)
bathrooms with showers and everything.
Jason Elkins (39:13.128)
So one thing you mentioned, you mentioned a few things about kind of the architecture of the area, you were discussing marble and the blue tile mosques, I guess it was. Um, you did also mention the people and culture. I’m really curious about that. I, what should we know about the people there that, you know, that your clients are engaging with?
Douglas Grimes (39:19.214)
Mm-hmm.
Douglas Grimes (39:36.142)
Yeah. Well, I mean, I would say, and this is true for her, I would say all over Central Asia is that, you know, the hospitality is very high there and people are very friendly. And, you know, it’s not a, it’s a common question to get asked, you know, when you’re walking around the old towns or like, oh, where are you from? You know, oh, I’m from the US and oh, you know.
Jason Elkins (39:38.092)
Well, I mean, I would say, and this is true for, I would say all over Central Asia, is that.
hospitality is very high there and people are very friendly. You know, it’s not a, it’s a common question to get asked, you know, when you’re walking around the old towns or where are you from, you know, one from the US and oh, you know, welcome and you know.
Douglas Grimes (40:05.23)
welcome and we’re happy to have you here. I have a cousin that lives in Toronto and I’m like, well, that’s Canada. Or something like that. Or Wisconsin maybe. So it’s not uncommon to meet people and have them be super friendly, invite them into their home for tea.
Jason Elkins (40:10.165)
I have a cousin that lives in Toronto. And I’m like, well, that’s Canada. Or something like that. Or Wisconsin, maybe. So it’s not uncommon to meet people and have them be super friendly and invite their interior into their home for tea.
Douglas Grimes (40:35.566)
is very common there. And they have also tea houses where people will invite you to sit down and have tea and chat. So I would say in terms of the culture, it’s a very positive experience for people visiting. It took some time, I think, after the Soviet Union for people to sort of embrace their, re-embrace their original…
Jason Elkins (40:36.176)
is very common there and they have also tea houses where people would invite you to sit down and have tea and chat. So I would say in terms of the culture it’s very a very positive experience for people visiting. It took some time I think after the Soviet Union for people to sort of embrace their
Jason Elkins (41:03.788)
re-embrace their original Uzbek culture or Kyrgyz. And that has, I would say, fostered and been encouraged. And you can really feel the sort of distinctions between the five Central Asian countries by the traditional dress or sort of…
Douglas Grimes (41:05.166)
you know, like Uzbek culture or Kyrgyz. And, you know, that has, I would say fostered and been encouraged, you know, and, you know, you can really feel the sort of distinctions between the five Central Asian countries by, you know, the traditional dress or sort of.
you know, Kyrgyzstan is really known for its like horsemanship and you know, the step and people have original some some people still live and then raise animals and live in traditional Kyrgyz yurt and you can go and see how a yurt is made and it’s different from Mongolian style yurt, you know, and What are the differences and sort of handicrafts and things like that?
Jason Elkins (41:33.112)
Kyrgyzstan is really known for its horsemanship and the steppe. Some people still live and then raise animals. Traditional Kyrgyz yurt, you can go and see how a yurt is made. It’s different from Mongolian style yurt.
Douglas Grimes (42:02.67)
And that has really kind of come into its own, I would say, in each country.
Jason Elkins (42:05.593)
And that is really come into its own, I would say, in each country. What do you think prompted that? You think it’s just a pride that comes back? Or has tourism helped encourage that? I would say both.
Douglas Grimes (42:18.638)
I would say both, the pride and wanting to reconnect with those original Uzbek traditions or Kyrgyz traditions or Turkmen or whatever, and to bring them back into their family and their society. The handicrafts have certainly, I think,
Jason Elkins (42:28.248)
reconnect with those original sort of Luzbek traditions or Kyrgyz traditions.
Jason Elkins (42:38.884)
bring them back into their family and their society. Yeah, the handicrafts have certainly, I think.
Douglas Grimes (42:48.046)
Um, you know, having a lot of visitors come and it being a part of, uh, you know, sustainability for, for people, you know, uh, there’s a lot of, you know, independent entrepreneurs or, or small businesses that are relying on, you know, visitors, whether it’s, you know, miniature paintings or, uh, traditional hand stitched suzannes, which I don’t know if you can see in the back behind me there. There’s.
Jason Elkins (42:50.68)
you know, having a lot of visitors come and it being a part of, you know, sustainability for people.
Jason Elkins (43:05.undefined)
small businesses that are relying on visitors, whether it’s miniature paintings or traditional hand-stitched suzumés, which I don’t know if you can see in the back behind me, there’s a long hanging.
Douglas Grimes (43:17.998)
There’s one hanging, hats, ceramics. There’s a ceramics master in the capital Tashkent that’s like a sixth or seventh generation ceramics master has been passed down from son to son family. And they still use traditional dyes and methods.
Jason Elkins (43:22.82)
ceramics, you know, there’s a ceramics master in the capital of Tashkent that’s like a sixth or seventh generation ceramics master has been passed down from son to son family. And they still use, you know, traditional dyes and methods for their pottery and things like that.
Douglas Grimes (43:45.326)
for their pottery and things like that. So I think those have really been embraced because, partially because they were sort of taken away during Soviet times, you know? And it’s like people were looking for, you know, how can we bring back our, you know, identity and share that with, you know, visitors and that, so.
Jason Elkins (43:49.564)
I think those have really been embraced because, partially because they were sort of taken away during so many times. And it’s like people were looking for, you know, how can we bring back our, you know, identity and share that with visitors and that. Was there a resurgence in religion as well with all these churches and mosques and what does that look like for the area? Yeah, definitely.
Douglas Grimes (44:15.726)
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Central Asia is mostly Muslim. I’d say it’s very secular or tolerant and not very strict. But still, people go pray at mosques and some people are more sort of religious than others.
Jason Elkins (44:22.328)
Central Asia is mostly Muslim. I’d say it’s very secular or tolerant and not very strict.
Still, you know, people go pray at mosques, and some people are more religious than others.
Douglas Grimes (44:45.742)
You don’t see in the area too many women with their heads covered or things like that. Some, I think it’s more a personal preference. There’s no kind of government mandates about it or anything like that, like in some other countries. But you’ll find…
Jason Elkins (44:57.216)
Yeah, some. I think it’s more a personal preference. There’s no, you know, kind of government mandates about it or anything like that.
Right, right, that makes sense. It’s the… But you’ll find what’s interesting, for instance Bukhara, which is a very, very old city and still has that kind of old mud brick field in the old town where you walk around very narrow streets and that and you’ll come around the corner and there’s a small mosque and then two blocks later there’s a synagogue.
Douglas Grimes (45:14.766)
It’s interesting, like for instance, Bukhara, which is a very, very old city and still has that kind of old mud brick feel in the old town where you walk around very narrow streets and that and you’ll come around a corner and there’s a small mosque. And then two blocks later, there’s a synagogue. Because there was a big Jewish quarter in Bukhara, there used to be actually quite a
Jason Elkins (45:39.108)
because there was a big Jewish quarter in Bukhara, you know, there used to be actually quite thriving.
Douglas Grimes (45:43.63)
thriving Bukharan Jews that were from that area. It’s not as prevalent as it used to be and it’s because of during Soviet times and that a lot of people immigrated to Israel and other places. But there’s still a Jewish quarter in Bukhara.
Jason Elkins (45:59.34)
during Soviet times and that.
Jason Elkins (46:09.818)
There’s still a Jewish quarter.
Douglas Grimes (46:13.742)
And there’s also an Armenian quarter and there’s a Christian, which is more part of Orthodox Christian. And so it’s a mix. And I think you find, especially cities like Bukhara where it’s like, there’s not a tension about it or anything. People are living amongst…
Jason Elkins (46:16.12)
to an Armenian quarter, and there’s a Christian, which is more sort of Orthodox Christian. And so it’s a mix. And I find, you know, you find especially cities like Bukhara where it’s like, you know, there’s not a tension about it or anything, you know, people are, you know, living.
Douglas Grimes (46:43.726)
themselves freely.
Jason Elkins (46:44.292)
themselves, you know, pre-node. Huh, interesting. So I think maybe some of our listeners and myself included, I really like to enjoy different types of food as I travel. So is there anything noteworthy that our listeners should know about food in Central Asia and these, and these countries? Yeah. Well, the, the food scene is
Douglas Grimes (47:01.966)
Yeah, well, the food scene has been, I would say, is developing.
Douglas Grimes (47:10.446)
little bit slower than some of our other, I would say other areas like the caucuses is a little bit, I would say, farther ahead, in my opinion, in terms of diversity and choices and that. I mean, I would say more recently, like within the last three to five years, there’s kind of a little bit more creativity happening. It used to be pretty much a period.
Jason Elkins (47:10.937)
little bit.
Jason Elkins (47:28.58)
say more recently, like in the last three to five years.
a little bit more creativity happening. Okay. It used to be pretty much very meat and potatoes, a lot of shish kebabs and you know that.
Douglas Grimes (47:40.046)
meat and potatoes, a lot of shish kebabs and that kind of thing, which is still a big main staple for the region, I would say. But depending on which country you’re in, people will say, oh, well, we’re famous for, for instance, Uzbekistan, we’re famous for our plov. Plov is like a rice dish that takes six hours to make, and you have to make it with this and that.
Jason Elkins (47:46.728)
And which is still a big, you know, main staple for the region, I would say. But, you know, depending on where, which country you’re in, you know, people will say, oh, well, we’re famous for, for instance, Uzbekistan, you know, we’re famous for our plov. Plov is like a rice dish that takes, you know, six hours to make. And, you know, you have to make it with this and that. And, I mean, they have these big.
Douglas Grimes (48:09.358)
I mean, they have these big, there’s a really kind of cool restaurant in Tashkent, which is a real, I would say, locals place too. It’s not really made for tourists, but it’s a big plov center. And they have these six or eight foot circular walks on fire that they’re making this giant plov in.
Jason Elkins (48:12.2)
There’s a really kind of cool restaurant in Peshkent, which is a real, I would say, locals place too. It’s not a made for tourists, but it’s a big plov center. And, you know, they have these six or eight foot, you know, circular walks.
you know, on fire, you know, that they’re making this giant plov and, you know, that’s cool. Serving everybody a bowl from this giant, huge, you know, plov dishes. And, uh, you know, so that’s kind of a cool place to go and get like a local dough and it’s inexpensive too. Um,
Douglas Grimes (48:38.638)
serving everybody a bowl from this giant, huge, you know, plob dishes. And, you know, so that’s a kind of a cool place to go and get like a local meal. And it’s inexpensive too. But really, you know, tasty. You know, but there are also new places too that are like doing, like I said, more innovative things, like taking sort of old recipes and, you know, making new dishes and things like that. So that’s just kind of starting to happen in Uzbekistan.
Jason Elkins (48:52.344)
but really tasty. But there are also new places too, that are like doing, like I said, more innovative things, like taking sort of old recipes and making new dishes and things like that. So that’s just kind of starting to happen in Uzbekistan. Parts of Kazakhstan has maybe, I would say, a little bit more, has more variety because they’ve got more sort of European restaurants they’ve adopted and things like that.
Douglas Grimes (49:08.334)
You know, parts of Kazakhstan has maybe, I would say, a little bit more, has more variety because they’ve got more sort of European restaurants they’ve adopted and things like that. The new capital there, Astana, which is kind of in the center of Kazakhstan. The former capital was Almaty, which is in the south. It was very close to the Kyrgyz border.
Jason Elkins (49:23.42)
The new capital there, Astana, which is kind of in the center of Kazakhstan. The former capital was Almaty, which is in the south. It was very close to the Kyrgyz border. And some years back, the president that was at that time decided to centralize the capital when it was moved.
Douglas Grimes (49:37.358)
Some years back, the president that was at that time decided to centralize the capital and it was moved to this new location, which was at that time just like a small village. And so the capital there is now like this whole new city. Everything was built from nothing. And it’s pretty impressive actually. So they’ve got all their government buildings and of course then there’s commerce and there’s
Jason Elkins (49:46.436)
to this new location, which was at that time just like a small village. Hmm. So the capital there is now like this whole new city. Everything was built from nothing. Yeah. Interesting. It’s pretty impressive actually. So they’ve got all their government buildings and of course, there’s
Douglas Grimes (50:07.182)
hotels there. And so with that came more sort of European restaurants and things that sort of developed during that time. Other places made more traditional still. Turkmenistan is I would say pretty traditional still in terms of not a lot of choices, but some. Tajikistan I haven’t really mentioned much. That’s the southern.
Jason Elkins (50:09.736)
And so with that came more European restaurants and things that sort of developed during that time. Other places, you know, more traditional still Turkmenistan is, I would say, you know, pretty traditional still in terms of, you know, not a lot of choices, but, you know, some Tajikistan, I haven’t really mentioned much. That’s the southern.
Douglas Grimes (50:35.854)
a kind of neighbor of Uzbekistan has a border with a big part of its southern border is with Afghanistan. And it’s mostly mountainous. It’s like 92% mountains, I think, is the territory of Tajikistan. And it’s famous for its Pamir Highway, which runs right along that Afghan border for a big section and then winds its way up into…
Jason Elkins (50:36.836)
kind of neighbor of Uzbekistan and the border with a big part of its southern border is with Afghanistan and it’s mostly mountainous it’s like 92% mountains I think is the territory of Tajikistan and it’s famous for its Pamir highway which runs right along that Afghan border for a big section and then winds its way up into
Douglas Grimes (51:04.366)
Kyrgyzstan and then the border with China in the very far western part of China. The highest peak in Central Asia is located in Tajikistan. For climbers and that, that used to be called peak communism. It’s one of the seven summits.
Jason Elkins (51:04.868)
Kyrgyzstan and then border with China in the very far western part of China. And you know, the highest peak in Central Asia is located in Tajikistan. For climbers and that, that’s used to be called peak communism. It’s one of the seven summits.
Douglas Grimes (51:34.19)
So yeah, a bit more adventurous there. Most of the road system is still very rough, I would say. And you need four-wheel drive for a good portion of that Palmeer Highway. And we’re talking about high, kind of remote mountain villages and fantastic scenery and passes and things like that. And a lot of it untouched.
Jason Elkins (51:36.454)
Yeah, a bit more adventurous there. You know, most of the road system is still very rough, I would say. Like four-wheel drive, a good portion of that, you know, Palmier Highway.
Douglas Grimes (52:04.046)
that it’s hard to find anymore these days. So yeah. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (52:07.651)
and fantastic scenery and passes and things like that. And a lot of it untouched, it’s hard to find it in all of these days. That’s very cool. I’ve got one more food question and then I wanna get to logistics a little bit. No, I wanna get back to the logistics, but as you were speaking, I think I saw something on YouTube.
think it was in Central Asia. If not, you probably know where this is. But they have these big clay ovens with a hole in the top of them. And the guys would take a big ball of dough and lean into the hole and smack it up against the inside of the oven. And it was a way of making bread of some sort. Does that sound like does that sound familiar to you?
Douglas Grimes (52:37.23)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s a very traditional bread of Central Asia. It’s made in a, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you said, it’s a big clay oven and usually it’s with regular coals and fire. It’s not a gas or whatever, a traditional way. And each town has its own…
Jason Elkins (52:47.896)
Okay, at least I’m in the right part of the world. That’s good.
Jason Elkins (52:59.848)
and fire. It’s not a gas or traditional way. And each town has its own sort of stamps or symbols that they put in the bread. So the bread is first, like you said, kind of made into circles. And then they slap it into the side of the clay oven. And then when they pull it out,
Douglas Grimes (53:09.39)
sort of stamps or symbols that they put in the bread. So the bread is first, like you said, kind of made into circles, and then they slap it into the side of the clay oven. And then when they pull it out, they’ve pre-stamped kind of the center part of it. And those stamps kind of change depending on, you know, what village or what bakery or something.
Jason Elkins (53:25.924)
they pre-stamped kind of the center part of it. And those stamps kind of change depending on where, what village or bakery or something. So you’ve seen this done, I assume. Oh yeah. It sounds like, and when I watched it, it was quite fascinating because frankly, these guys look like they’re gonna fall into the hole. Just from what I saw, I don’t know if maybe the video is a little bit more extreme, but they like lean into the oven and
Douglas Grimes (53:38.414)
Oh yeah.
Douglas Grimes (53:48.206)
Hehehehe
Jason Elkins (53:55.18)
and like smack it up in the inside of there and then come back out. And, and I just thought, wow, that has to be incredibly dangerous because if they’re not strapped in, as far as I can tell, they’re just, I don’t know, it’s had nerve wracking to watch them do that. Or would you do it? I I’ve done it. Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (53:59.854)
All right.
Douglas Grimes (54:11.374)
I’ve done it. I’ve tried it. It wasn’t having to lean down too much because it was, this one was, the hole was sort of made in a side so you could reach in sideways but you still had to, you know, you’re reaching in there with the flames and it’s hot and you know it was…
Jason Elkins (54:20.417)
lean down too much because it was this one was the hole was sort of made on the side. Okay. Yeah, these guys, the hole was right in the top of the thing. And they were like, yeah, I just blew me away. So anybody that’s interested, go look that up on YouTube. What do you call it?
Douglas Grimes (54:44.27)
I’m not sure if it has a, I mean tandoor, it’s like a tandoor oven, you know, they call it. So, yeah. But if you, if you…
Jason Elkins (54:46.912)
other than just bread. Is it, oh, okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. That’s interesting. So anyway, I wanted to ask you about that. Cause I thought that was pretty interesting. I’d like to see that. So.
Douglas Grimes (54:57.614)
Yeah. If you go to the bazaar in, for instance, Summercon, like their famous market bazaar there, there’s like a whole bread section and like every stand and they’ve got tons of different kinds of breads and some of them decorated and some not and it’s like really pretty. And the bread is like super tasty too. I mean, you know, yeah.
Jason Elkins (55:07.008)
like a whole bread section and like every stand and they’ve got tons of different kinds of breads and some of them decorated and some not. All right really pretty. Very cool. And the bread is like super tasty too. Is it? Yeah. Very cool. Especially coming right out of the ovens and breaking off the pieces. Yeah I love that. I mean I just love going to like little bakeries and like a croissant with a coffee
Douglas Grimes (55:24.91)
especially coming right out of the ovens and breaking off a piece.
Jason Elkins (55:36.24)
I just love to try that everywhere I go. I want something kind of like that, but okay. So back to logistics, because as you were describing these places, I was curious, are these most of these places or some of these places, the type of place where a digital nomad could go. Let’s say you work remotely and you. You can just go and travel around as are there, are these places that I could just book a ticket, fly in, get an Airbnb, rent a car, hang out for months at a time, or is it more restricted?
Douglas Grimes (55:36.334)
Ha ha.
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (56:03.78)
Because one of the countries you mentioned sound like it was quite restricted. Yeah. I would say in general.
Douglas Grimes (56:05.294)
Yeah, I would say in general, Central Asia is not sure that high on the list of any of those countries for digital nomading. Maybe Kyrgyzstan, just because they have a little bit more liberal in terms of how long you can stay and things like that. The one country that is, I would say, really good for that would be, again, Georgia.
Jason Elkins (56:16.704)
any of those countries for digital nomading. Maybe Kyrgyzstan, just because they have…
Jason Elkins (56:26.676)
of how long you can stay and things like that. The one country that is, I would say, really good for that would be, again, Georgia in the South Caucasus, because you can go without a visa as a US passport holder for a year. You can stay there without a visa, and you can work. And you have a digital moment.
Douglas Grimes (56:35.47)
in the South Caucasus because you can go without a visa as a US passport holder for a year. You can stay there without a visa and you can work as a digital nomad. You can open a bank account. There’s a lot of things that there’s… They have one of the…
Jason Elkins (56:57.016)
bank account, I mean, you know, there’s a lot of things that there’s, they have one of the, I don’t know the number now, but it used to be in the top 10, ease of doing business or something like that, was Georgia. That has also just, to be aware, has been one of the real
Douglas Grimes (57:03.918)
I don’t know the number now, but it used to be in the top 10 of ease of doing business or something like that, was Georgia. That has also just, to be aware, has been one of the real appealing countries for Russians to go to that were trying to get away from the war. And that has affected the economy in Georgia some because with the big flood of…
Jason Elkins (57:21.252)
appealing countries for Russians to go to that were trying to get away from the war. And that has affected the economy in Georgia some because with a big flood of 100,000 Russians coming last year, it’s been a little more year now, kind of when that started, it drove up the…
Douglas Grimes (57:33.742)
you know, 100,000 Russians coming, you know, at a last year. Yeah, it’s been, I would say a little over a year now kind of when that started. Drove up the, you know, rents and, you know, prices and stuff quite a bit. So some of the, you know, where it used to be really inexpensive to live there, you know, to get a, you could get like an apartment for, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month or something. You know, it’s now like double or triple that.
Jason Elkins (57:47.172)
rents and prices and stuff quite a bit. Some of the, where it used to be really inexpensive to live there, you could get an apartment for a couple hundred bucks a month or something. It’s now like double or triple that, which is still inexpensive. And so there are people that I know are digital nomads that are taking advantage of spending time there.
Douglas Grimes (58:03.886)
which is still inexpensive. And so there are people that I know are digital nomads that are taking advantage of spending time there. The other thing is you can leave for a few days and come back and stay another year or so. Uh. Ha ha ha. Ha ha.
Jason Elkins (58:15.172)
The other thing is you can leave for a few days and come back and play another year or so. Oh, nice. All right, it’s starting to sound better and better as you speak. Yeah, so that’s one of the, I would say, from our area.
Douglas Grimes (58:25.134)
Yeah, so that’s one of the, I would say for our areas, probably the top one. I’d have to look and see, I think, I want to say Romania also has some, kind of, has geared some positive things toward digital nomads, you know, in terms of encouraging that, or at least that used to be, I’m not sure that still is.
Jason Elkins (58:41.73)
here.
Jason Elkins (58:48.704)
At least it used to be. All right. Well, let’s, let’s remove the digital nomad part of the equation. Let’s take that out of the equation and go back to central Asia. And maybe, I guess the question, maybe I should have phrased it. Like, could somebody just go there and find their way around, be safe and, and have great experiences or do they really need to go with a tour operator to be able to experience, I mean,
Things are always better with a great tour operator. I get that and we’re having this discussion. And is this the type of place where you could go book a room for a couple of weeks, rent a car, drive around, explore and get something out of it? Or is it just a waste of time?
Douglas Grimes (59:16.75)
Hehehehehehe
Douglas Grimes (59:29.518)
Uh, I mean, you could, you could. I think the, the caveat with that was, do you have time to waste? Uh, because, because some things would really, you know, take time to kind of find, you know, find the right connect contact or, or, you know, setting up, you know, kind of the right places or, you know, just going and renting a car is not so straightforward, you know, as
Jason Elkins (59:33.592)
think the caveat with that was do you have time to waste? Ah, interesting. Okay. Because some things would really, you know, take time to kind of find, you know, find the right connect contact or setting up, you know, kind of the right places or, you know, just going and renting a car is not so straightforward, you know, as other parts of the world. Got it.
Douglas Grimes (59:58.798)
other parts of the world and things like that. So if you have spare time, certainly I think it’s possible and people do do it. If it’s high season, it’s also can be challenging because a lot of places honestly are full and we’re finding we have to book stuff earlier and earlier. And so that’s the other thing that could be challenging is like you think, oh, I’m gonna show up and.
Jason Elkins (01:00:02.092)
things like that. So if you have, you know, spare time, you know, certainly, I think it’s possible and people do it, you know, and if it’s high season, it’s also can be challenging because a lot of places honestly are full. And we’re finding, you know, we have to book stuff earlier and earlier. And so that’s the other thing that could be challenging is like you think, Oh, I’m gonna show up in September and then
Douglas Grimes (01:00:27.726)
September and then it’s like you can’t even find a one space in like a hotel at ten hotels in Tushkent or something, you know. So that can be tricky.
Jason Elkins (01:00:29.812)
It’s like you can even find one space in like a hotel, like 10 hotels in Tushcan. OK. All right. So it sounds like the do-it-yourself thing, Robbie, is better in Europe or some other places. And this sounds like something that’s just. I’m not saying you can’t.
Douglas Grimes (01:00:44.782)
Yeah, I mean, I’m not saying you can’t do it. I would just, you know, you’d have to do some pre-planning yourself, I think, you know, to be able to make it happen, you know, without running into a lot of, not a lot, but I mean, certainly running into some stumbling blocks and things that, you know. So most people, I mean, that were…
Jason Elkins (01:00:59.32)
running into a lot of.
Jason Elkins (01:01:09.868)
Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (01:01:11.886)
kind of working with, you know, don’t have a lot of extra time to waste. And so, you know, we’re trying to, you know, set as much up as possible to kind of give them what they want. And we, we have small group trips, but we also do private journeys. So, you know, somebody can say, oh, I just want to go and spend 10 days and, you know, do this and that, or this is the most important thing for me. And, you know, we can set it up from scratch, you know, so.
Jason Elkins (01:01:19.752)
up with some of the folks who are kind of giving them what they want and we have small group trips, but we also do private journeys. So, you know, somebody can say, oh, I just want to go and spend 10 days and, you know, do this and that, or this is the most important thing for me. Got it. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I just realize, you know, recognize that some countries are easier than others. Some countries…
Douglas Grimes (01:01:43.342)
Oh yeah, sure.
Jason Elkins (01:01:44.768)
You know, you go to New Zealand, rent a car, you can go see a lot of cool stuff. Um, but other countries are more, you know, well suited to an organized itinerary with like, okay, there’s a lot of distance in between the different things you want to see. And let’s not waste your time trying to figure out how to get point A to point B and let’s just make it happen. So I, I appreciate the insights there. And I did want to touch on one more. If, if you’ve got a moment, I’d love, um, we talked a little bit about Iran.
Douglas Grimes (01:01:48.302)
Right, right. Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (01:01:58.894)
Right.
Douglas Grimes (01:02:04.27)
Yeah, yeah.
Douglas Grimes (01:02:15.086)
Yep, yep, we did.
Jason Elkins (01:02:16.013)
Is there anything notable there that we should discuss that our listeners might be kind of an eye opener for them?
Douglas Grimes (01:02:23.086)
Well, I think the first thing is, you can go to Iran. There’s no restriction technically in terms of being able to travel there as a U.S. passport holder. If you look at the State Department warnings and stuff, it’s obviously level four and they discourage that. But that’s not the only place in the world that’s like that. So, it’s certainly possible.
Jason Elkins (01:02:25.54)
I think the first thing is, you can go to…
Jason Elkins (01:02:37.572)
State Department warnings and stuff. It’s obviously level four and they discourage that. But that’s not the only place in the world that’s like that.
Jason Elkins (01:02:50.268)
certainly possible. We’ve done trips and programming in Iran for over 25 years actually. It’s probably not a place I would suggest going on your own. You know better to have it organized and you need a visa and the visa process is pretty extensive. So it’s not
Douglas Grimes (01:02:52.91)
We’ve done trips and programming in Iran for over 25 years actually as a company. It’s probably not a place I would suggest going on your own. Better to have it organized and you need a visa and the visa process is pretty extensive. So it’s not necessarily a problem. It just takes time and planning.
Jason Elkins (01:03:18.692)
It’s not necessarily a problem, it just takes time and planning. Different times of our involvement with doing trips to Iran, it’s kind of been boom or bust. So there’s not a lot of interest in it right now, especially after recent events in the Middle East.
Douglas Grimes (01:03:22.894)
that. You know, at different times of, I would say, our involvement with doing trips to Iran, you know, it’s kind of been boom or bust. So, you know, there’s not a lot of interest in it right now, especially after recent events in the Middle East, Israel. But, you know, I don’t know, eight, ten years ago.
Jason Elkins (01:03:50.308)
you know, I don’t know, eight, 10 years ago, like one year we had maybe 600 Americans in one year. Wow. And we can go around. So destination itself is certainly worth a visit if the timing’s right, because it’s ancient Persian culture and architecture and fantastic archeological sites, you know, and.
Douglas Grimes (01:03:52.782)
I think one year we had maybe 600 Americans in one year traveling to Iran. So destination itself is certainly worth a visit if it’s a timing’s right, because it’s ancient Persian culture and architecture and fantastic archeological sites. And talk about hospitality with people, it’s one of the…
Jason Elkins (01:04:18.116)
talk about hospitality with people. It’s one of the, I would say, you know, some of the most friendliest people I’ve ever met, you know, and just people from the street. You know, that said, we as a company shifted kind of our focus a little bit.
Douglas Grimes (01:04:22.318)
I would say some of the most friendliest people I’ve ever met in Iran and just people from the street. That said, we as a company shifted our focus a little bit. During COVID, we had decided we were going to expand a little bit into the Middle East because we’d already had Iran.
Jason Elkins (01:04:45.88)
sort of during COVID, we decided we were going to expand a little bit into the Middle East, because we already had Iran and Turkey and we had Saudi Arabia and Oman, UAE.
Douglas Grimes (01:04:52.046)
Turkey and we added Saudi Arabia and Oman, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan and Iraq to our kind of offerings and kind of had kicked that off earlier this year. And I don’t know, it seems we like to pick places that are controversial or something, you know, because…
Jason Elkins (01:05:02.568)
back to our offerings and kick that off earlier this year. And we like to pick places where we have that. You named a few.
Douglas Grimes (01:05:20.046)
Started off well and…
Started off quite well and now we’re, I mean, we’re still, I’m still very positive about the region and I think, I have to say especially Oman and Saudi Arabia, I think have a lot to offer and their tourism is pretty new to that area. I mean, Saudi Arabia only open to tourism really in…
Jason Elkins (01:05:27.684)
I mean, we’re.
Jason Elkins (01:05:45.705)
Saudi Arabia only open to…
Douglas Grimes (01:05:49.838)
the fall of 2019 and it was only for a short time and then COVID happened. So international tourism to Saudi Arabia is new, it’s very new. And and it has, I think the country itself has a lot to offer.
Jason Elkins (01:05:52.036)
and it was only for a short time when COVID happened. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:06:04.904)
Cool. I think the country itself has a lot of talent. It’ll be interesting to see what develops in the world as a whole, but I gotta give you credit though, Doug. You’re pretty adventurous and I’m gonna say ballsy because I’ve spoken with so many tour operators over the years and then with this podcast and for you to like, oh, I’m gonna start my tourism career with the Soviet Union, North Korea.
Douglas Grimes (01:06:12.814)
Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (01:06:31.534)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:06:33.184)
You know, central Asia, Iran and all these different places, that takes some serious commitment either to kind of just your vision of connecting people. I believe, you know, Mir, let’s go back to the, you know, the name of your business, right? You said it was world or and peace, right? Yeah. I mean, that’s. I think that’s, you know.
Douglas Grimes (01:06:49.55)
Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s, you know, it’s been our philosophy even up until now that we, you know, I believe that people, I mean, it’s one thing to listen to news and stuff. And, you know, it’s another thing to go in person and really meet someone yourself from from a country and sort of understand it from the perspective of your own viewpoint, you know, and I, I think that
Jason Elkins (01:07:02.288)
I believe that people, I mean it’s one thing to listen to news and stuff.
thing to go in person.
meet someone yourself from a country and sort of understand it from the perspective of your own viewpoint. And I think that, you know, we’d have a lot less wars and disagreements in our world if everybody, you know, was more open to kind of visiting and traveling and learning about, you know, our cultures.
Douglas Grimes (01:07:23.758)
You know, we’d have a lot less wars and disagreements in our world if everybody, you know, was more open to kind of visiting and traveling and learning about, you know, our cultures. And, you know, I mean, I have a friend in Saudi Arabia. I have a friend in Russia. I have a friend in Ukraine. You know, I have a friend in Iran. You know, you know, I have a different perspective.
Jason Elkins (01:07:40.192)
You know, I mean, I have a friend in Saudi Arabia. I have a friend in Russia. I have a friend in Ukraine. You know, I have a friend in Iran. You know, I have a different perspective on.
Douglas Grimes (01:07:53.774)
the people and the culture there because of that.
Jason Elkins (01:07:57.529)
you know, the people and the culture there because of that. You have a friend done the DMZ in North Korea. I do. It’s, it’s, it’s so cool because I’m not knocking any tour operators. I think they’re all doing what they’re doing for a reason. And, you know, it’s one thing to say, okay, I’m going to do trips to Paris. I’m going to do trips to Italy. Um, and I think there’s a lot of value in that, but I think.
Douglas Grimes (01:08:00.43)
I do. I do. I have a guy who likes beer just like me, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:08:23.964)
It’s really clear as I listen to you and as I look at you here on the screen is that there’s something bigger there behind this. It’s not just tourism, right? Obviously, it’s not just tourism because if it was just tourism, you’re not doing Central Asia because you think nobody else is doing it and we can make a bunch of money, you know, or some of these countries. I’m just guessing. And I respect that. So I just want to acknowledge that.
Douglas Grimes (01:08:31.886)
Yeah.
Douglas Grimes (01:08:44.174)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah, thank you. And I, Mir, we have a very good team, I would say, you know, we have a lot of people that have been with the company a long time and very experienced and like Joanna, who’s one of our salespeople, she was a guide on one of our early trips to Poland. And, you know, when she, you know, married an American said,
Jason Elkins (01:08:51.256)
near. We have a very good team.
Thank you.
Jason Elkins (01:09:02.756)
She was a guide on one of our early trips to Poland. And she married an American and said, oh, I’m going to be, I’m in the United States now. And I said, oh, well, do you want to work with me? She’s been with the company ever since. We have a Ukrainian guy who’s, you know, I mean, we have people who know the areas and a good team of people that, you know, are
Douglas Grimes (01:09:10.702)
going to be, I’m in the United States now. I said, Oh, well, do you want to work for us? You know, and she’s been with the company ever since. And, you know, we have a Ukrainian guy who’s, you know, I mean, we have people who know the areas and really good, good team of people that, you know, are passionate about our destinations as well and sharing them with our clients. So it’s not just me.
Jason Elkins (01:09:38.853)
passionate about our destinations as well and sharing one with our clients. It’s not just me. Yeah. No, I get it. But you’ve obviously attracted these people for a reason. So there’s a lot to be said for that. Doug, we covered a lot of things. I have a feeling we could cover a lot more and-
Douglas Grimes (01:09:40.942)
Nice.
Douglas Grimes (01:09:46.126)
Sure.
So.
Douglas Grimes (01:09:54.318)
Oh gosh.
Jason Elkins (01:09:55.624)
I’m curious though, at this point, is there anything I should have asked, forgot to ask, or anything that you think our listeners should know either about you, Doug, or about Mir, or about anything else before we wrap up?
Douglas Grimes (01:10:08.846)
No, I think there’s a lot of information on our website. So that might be a place that people could go. It’s mircorp.com. And we do a lot of blog posts and trying to help spread the word about our destinations and educate people. Because like you said, not everyone is a good person.
Jason Elkins (01:10:20.214)
Yep, and we’ll have that. We’ll have that linked in the show notes as well to make it real easy.
Jason Elkins (01:10:30.776)
spread the word about our destinations and educate people and you know because you know like you said too many people know that much about the areas or regions and we feel like we’re educators too so yeah um but I think yeah covered a lot of it and I encourage everybody to check it out and maybe we’ll see you in Central Asia or the caucuses and or Middle East
Douglas Grimes (01:10:37.742)
Too many people know that much about the areas and regions, and we feel like we’re educators too. So, but I think I covered a lot of it, and I encourage everybody to check it out, and maybe we’ll see you in Central Asia, or the caucuses, or Middle East.
Jason Elkins (01:10:59.724)
Yeah, very cool. Well, very interesting conversation, Doug. I appreciate you taking time to share all this with us. And you’ve got a bunch of ideas rolling around in my head. And I’m sure that anybody that’s listening to this is, you know, considering new places that they maybe never thought of before. So thank you. I think we did, we did a good job. Thanks, Doug. Appreciate you being here. All right. We’ll connect with you soon. Thanks.
Douglas Grimes (01:11:17.71)
Great. All right. Thank you.
Okay, bye.
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