Guest Bio
Eric Segalstad, Vice President & Partner at Gondwana Ecotours, is a seasoned adventure travel professional with over two decades of experience leading and designing meaningful journeys across five continents. Originally from Norway and now based in Vermont, Eric has guided exploratory ski trips in remote regions like Kashmir, Patagonia, and Japan, while also supporting conservation-focused projects in the Ecuadorian Amazon.
At Gondwana, he leads brand experience, operations technology, and tour development—including signature itineraries like the Norway: Western Fjords Adventure, which he co-guides alongside local experts to offer travelers a deep connection with his home country.
Beyond his role at Gondwana, Eric serves on the Alaska Travel Industry Association’s Marketing and Sustainability Committees, contributing to the industry’s push toward responsible tourism. When he’s not curating travel experiences, Eric enjoys making music, surfing, mountain biking, and paddleboarding with his wife and their rescue dog.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins welcomes Eric Segalstad, Vice President & Partner at Gondwana Ecotours. Together, they explore how thoughtful travel can create authentic human connections and leave a positive impact on the places we visit.
Eric shares the origin story of Gondwana’s name—derived from an ancient supercontinent—and how it reflects the company’s values of unity, stewardship, and cultural exchange. He offers a behind-the-scenes look at how Gondwana builds immersive experiences that go beyond sightseeing, from meals shared with local families to partnerships with community-led initiatives. Eric also reflects on how the pandemic reshaped his team’s vision, pushing them to innovate and recommit to sustainability and storytelling.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ The name “Gondwana” represents global connection and ecological unity.
- ✓ Eric is the brand steward at Gondwana Ecotours, creates some of its tours, and oversees marketing and the company’s technology stack.
- ✓ The company creates immersive tours that build relationships between travelers and local communities.
- ✓ Sustainability, storytelling, and stewardship are at the core of Gondwana’s mission.
- ✓ Eric’s early exposure to nature in Norway shaped his life-long love for adventure.
- ✓ Experiences like family dinners and local hikes elevate the meaning of travel.
- ✓ The COVID-19 pandemic challenged the industry but opened new space for reflection and innovation.
- ✓ Gondwana fosters community resilience by partnering with local guides and businesses.
- ✓ Gondwana Ecotours brings a personal touch to every tour, blending cultural insight with hands-on exploration.
- ✓ Adventure travel is about more than destinations—it’s about the people you meet along the way.
What You’ll Find on Gondwana Ecotours
- ✓ Intentionally designed eco-tours led by local and expert guides
- ✓ Cultural immersion experiences like home-cooked meals and artisan visits
- ✓ Small group adventures in places like Alaska, Norway, Rwanda, and Patagonia
- ✓ Deep commitment to environmental sustainability and responsible tourism
- ✓ Unique itineraries that blend comfort, curiosity, and community engagement
Learn more about Gondwana Ecotours and connect with Eric at:
https://www.gondwanaecotours.com
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.029)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the big world made small podcast for the adventure traveler. we’ve got something great going on today. For those of you that can see the screen, my guest is outside, which is wonderful. So there’s some nice, flowers and stuff like that. We were just talking about bears and raccoons. So hopefully that doesn’t interrupt our conversation. Eric Segalstad is with us today. He is the vice president and partner of Gondwana Ecotours Eric, did I say everything right?
Eric Segalstad (00:29.928)
Oh you did of course you did thank you.
Jason Elkins (00:30.727)
Well, that’s because I practiced 10 times before we record, but it’s really not that hard. But I know that, you know, the obvious place to start Eric is gondwana. What does that word mean? And why did you, where did, how did that become the name of the company? I think that’s the obvious first question.
Eric Segalstad (00:49.218)
Yeah. So Gondwana is the name of the old super continent. we had Pangaea and Gondwana land. So Gondwana was up until about 180 million years ago. And we had the continents of South America, Africa, the Arabian peninsula, India, and what is now Australia and New Zealand and probably some other Pacific islands as well. They were all combined into one super continent.
And then over the course of the eons of time, they drifted apart. So when my good friend and business partner, Jared Sternberg founded the company, Gondwana Ecotours he had come across the word through a reggae band actually called Gondwana. And he was really into that band and he was wondering about the word, started researching it and understood its meaning that I just shared. So.
Jared thought that would be a great name for our company because his vision was really to try to bring people together again through travel and make the world a little bit smaller, a little bit friendlier. So that’s where the Gondwana part of the name came from.
Jason Elkins (01:58.747)
Sounds like a good synergy for the Big World Made Small podcast. I see some connections there, because that’s exactly why I came up with the name as well. But I got to ask you, because I always thought that was Pangea. You mentioned the word Pangea. Do you know the difference? Is it just the time frame, or what’s the difference between Pangea and Gondwana?
Eric Segalstad (02:17.518)
Yeah, there was a little bit of a difference in several hundred million years of geological history there. Yeah. No, it’s a… And I probably should speak with even more authority on that, considering that my dad is retired geologist, but here we go.
Jason Elkins (02:21.583)
Okay. All right.
Jason Elkins (02:31.335)
Hey, you, you got it. And you’ve obviously given it more thought than I have. I’d always heard Pangea. so anyway, very, cool name. Does that, does that work? Well, I mean, it sounds like a great idea. Does it create confusion? Do you think for people?
Eric Segalstad (02:48.118)
Yeah, there was a time several years ago where we paused and said, Hey, before we get a lot bigger, should we stick with the name or not? Because we found that a lot of people have a hard time pronouncing it, spelling it. And from a brand perspective, it could be a barrier, right? it’s ideal to have some, something that everyone understands immediately and, and, and is on the tip of their tongue. our name is not.
We decided to stick with it. It seems to be working for us. I definitely hear the criticism that it’s hard to pronounce. If you have never seen the word before, you don’t know what it means. So I guess in one sense it makes it memorable, but you know, to each his own.
Jason Elkins (03:32.113)
Well, I guess the flip side of that is if, you’re traveling, you know, if I’m a guest traveling with you guys and I arrive at an airport somewhere and there’s 50 guys standing there holding signs up with different brands and marks on it, that one’s not going to get confused with anything else. It’s not, it’s not quest. It’s not travel something to have all this, whatever. It’s like, okay, yes, this is definitely our driver. There’s no doubt about it. So
Eric Segalstad (03:56.086)
Exactly. that’s the service that you get when you travel with us. We take care of all the details from when you arrive until when you depart. we do have guides and drivers showing up at the airport with Gondwana. So Gondwana Ecotours. yeah.
Jason Elkins (04:04.612)
You
Jason Elkins (04:10.705)
Very, very good. It definitely stands out. So I guess we’ve discussed the business already a little bit, kind of what’s behind the name and all that. But let’s do this for our listeners, because I want everybody kind of clear on what it is you guys do. So what’s the kind of 60 second elevator pitch? Who do you serve? Where do you go? That type of stuff.
Eric Segalstad (04:31.266)
Yeah, absolutely. So our mission is to inspire meaningful connections between travelers and local communities and ecosystems and creating experiences that drive positive lasting impact. And that positive lasting impact is not just for the travelers who are having a great time. So a big part of our tours to kind of start with the tours and I’ll go more into details about what those things are and what they mean and how we do it. So the first thing is we
We have trips to sort of bucket lists places around the world. Not necessarily I want to go to see the Coliseum and the Taj Mahal, not those bucket list things, but it’s more in sort of the nature, culture, wildlife. So for example, one of our, our oldest running tour that we still are running and is our most successful tour is our Northern Lights adventure in the interior of Alaska.
So that’s a big bucket list for a lot of people, right? To see the Northern Lights and experience that and see the amazing sight of just seeing, you know, light just kind of dance across the sky, big black skies. So that is one bucket list experience. Another thing is, you know, going on safari. Now, there are many great destinations to do that in, but we go in Tanzania. We think it’s a phenomenal place to witness the wilds of the African continent.
specifically being able to witness the great migration, just seeing not only the big five and all of the animals that you come and want to see and hope to see, but also just seeing the sheer number of wildebeest and zebras running around and kind of being on the circular track on the great migration. So that’s another example of a bucket list. I can go on Patagonia, seeing the fjords of Norway and so forth. So we are not everywhere.
yet I don’t know that we ever will be everywhere, but we, hand, hand select kind of where we want to go and develop these trips. and they are adventure by day, comfort at night. and then kind of going back to some of these other things that I mentioned earlier, like regenerative travel is sort of a buzzword today. And, when we first started, that wasn’t a term that was widely used or in vogue, but it really captures how we see travel. We see travel as a force for good.
Eric Segalstad (06:49.686)
So we aim to leave a destination in a better place than what it was when we first showed up with our guests. And we want to help promote biodiversity, support local economies, and foster cultural exchanges. So the way that we do that is by working with local partners and partners who typically are maybe about the size that we are ourselves. We really believe in paying people a fair
fair wages, fair amounts for the service that they do. We really want to help also individuals and micro businesses in the places where we visit. So for example, on almost every tour we have, we have taken a lot of time to kind of seek out people who aren’t normally part of the tourist economy, meaning they don’t have a hotel, they’re not an activity provider, but they might be a family living off the grid.
in interior Alaska and they have a small kind of substance type of farm. and they are, you know, after chatting with them and explaining who we are and who our guests are, they are open to us coming to visit, to learn from them and, know, just understand how they live and why they choose to live this way, with, raising a family this way. And we, you know, where else can our guests sit around the table of someone living in interior Alaska eating.
you know, moose stew that has been harvested by the family and everything in the pot is grown by the family in this place called Frigid Farms, you know, like it’s just an incredible experience. And our guests are mostly from the lower 48 of the United States. They are just fascinated. I mean, these are their, this is a fellow country men, country women of them, and they’re sitting there around the table, just having so many great questions. And it’s it’s a
Jason Elkins (08:24.302)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (08:44.622)
It’s a circular thing in a way that the family also gets a lot out of the visits, both financially, but also culturally as well, just in terms of having strangers come into their house, having their young kids who are somewhat isolated in a way, have a chance to kind of chat with people from all over the United States as well, right in their living room and around their farm is an example. So we do this in foreign locales as well. It’s something that’s really
near and dear to us and we see the positive impact it has on our guests and the people. And one small kind of footnote to that is if you read our itineraries, a lot of times you will not even see those things mentioned in the itinerary because if I write about it, sure, I might consider myself a half decent marketing copywriter. That said, it’s not going to have the same punch as some of the other things that we’re seeing that
Jason Elkins (09:27.793)
Hmm
Jason Elkins (09:39.089)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (09:40.974)
seems so grand and magnificent in comparison. Yet when we read our surveys, we see so many people, so many guests are reporting that their highlights of the trip was seeing the Northern Lights and also visiting the family and like learning from them and eating the stew, that kind of stuff.
Jason Elkins (09:56.497)
Yeah.
Well, there’s a couple of things there. One is just the surprise element. It’s, you we like pleasant little surprises. Number one and number two, if you wrote, okay, we’re going to visit a family that lives off the grid in the bush and you’re going to eat moose stew. It’s not, doesn’t mean it’s not a cool experience. It’s just like, how do you capture that ahead of time? It’s one of those things you can’t really, I think, I guess where I’m going with this is like, you say, you’re going to.
sleep in a tent under the northern lights and whatever. Maybe people can kind of visualize that. That’s like, okay, I get what that means. But if you say we’re going to go have dinner with a family, it might even turn be, well, I don’t know, I’m going to go out on a limb here. It might even be off putting to some people that like, why I’m going, I’m on vacation. Why don’t I want go to someone’s house? That sounds weird.
Eric Segalstad (10:52.13)
Absolutely.
Jason Elkins (10:52.251)
But, but, but then when, if you don’t tell them about it then you take them there, it’s like, holy cow, that was really cool. It’s almost that. Geez. We wouldn’t have, we would have never thought of this, which is exactly the kind of experience you want to give. Right. That’s what I’m hearing. Very, cool. You, you mentioned when I asked you kind of where you said, well, there’s the bucket list items. You mentioned Patagonia, African safari, Northern lights, stuff like that. And then we shifted into a conversation more about some of these little.
Eric Segalstad (11:05.591)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Jason Elkins (11:21.809)
kind of unique surprises, you’re really connected with the community. So maybe that was part of the answer to this next question. But I’m curious, like, what do you guys maybe do or that you’re excited about doing in the very near future that the typical person listening to this or maybe even some guests that have traveled with you in the past just isn’t even on their radar. And you guys think it’s really, really cool. It’s not on their radar and…
Eric Segalstad (11:45.454)
Mm.
Jason Elkins (11:49.201)
but it’s something that most people don’t know about, but you’re pretty excited about. Do you have a few examples like that?
Eric Segalstad (11:55.606)
Yeah, I think the first thing that pops into my mind, because it fits what you’re saying, is our… So in August, so just last month, a few weeks ago from when we are taping this interview, we launched a tour to Northern Peru and Bolivia. And we do include Machu Picchu as like a post-trip, because a lot of our guests have been, many of our guests have not been, would like to go.
so the focus isn’t Machu Picchu. but the focus is Northern Peru with like Colca Canyon and Lake Titicaca and, and the indigenous, people who live out on, on the, you know, the islands made from the floating islands made from Reed and Lake Titicaca. And we timed the itinerary for when we are, when our departures are.
is in early April because we’re visiting the uni salt flats in Bolivia, which I’m sure many people have seen photos of or have been to themselves. And the salt flats are, I personally have not been there yet, but the salt flats are amazing. Like they are just like completely flat or scorched. They have some like mountains far in the distance and you get to kind of see this like incredible vista.
Jason Elkins (12:51.399)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (13:14.528)
Like late March, early April seasonally, historically, there’s a thin layer of water of like an inch or two or three inches of water on top there. Guess what? When you’re up at this, you know, altitude, which is, I think it’s a 12, 13,000 feet or something like that. Don’t quote me on the exact altitude. I might have that wrong, but it’s, it’s a high altitude. it’s an Altiplano, right? So it’s, it’s just, it’s up high. The skies are huge and magnificent.
Jason Elkins (13:33.457)
You
Eric Segalstad (13:43.27)
And you may have a few clouds, may not, and it’s just a mirror reflection of the sky and the mountains and everything. just makes it this otherworldly experience. So that’s, think, is an example of somewhere that like, huh, I never thought to go there, but maybe I want to go now. We’re excited.
Jason Elkins (13:53.863)
I’m.
Jason Elkins (14:01.041)
Do you, I’m sure others on your team and some of your guests that have shared the experience with you, told you about it. It sounds like standing inside of a sphere because you’ve got a reflection of the sky all the way to the ground and the, or the reflection on the ground of the sky and 360 degrees around you horizontally. it just sounds like you’re standing in a big sphere of blue and clouds. Is that.
Eric Segalstad (14:12.952)
Mmm.
Eric Segalstad (14:29.646)
Yeah, kind of. I haven’t thought about that as a sphere, but that makes perfect sense to me, Jason. So my business partner, Jared, people on our team are pretty well-traveled, as you can imagine, like everyone else in travel. And one of Jared’s favorite experiences out of everywhere that he’s been over the decades was going there around that time.
Jason Elkins (14:30.311)
I want to see that.
Jason Elkins (14:45.37)
I’m sure,
Eric Segalstad (14:58.188)
When we designed this trip in collaboration with our friend who’s a Peruvian guide who I’ve known for longer than our company has existed, Juan Carlos Yanez, he and Jared, mostly, and our friend Danny who’s also working with us from Argentina, I’d say the three of them kind of collaborated more than anything else to kind of figure this tour out.
So I’m extremely excited to go myself at some point. hope I’ll hope they’ll let me. and, yeah, yeah, I’ll see. I’ll see if I can make it happen. No, but, no, so we’re excited. So we just launched a tour. So we haven’t had our guests out. So we’ve done, you know, the, the scouting and the research and putting it together. and then our first departure will happen in.
Jason Elkins (15:29.223)
I suspect they will. You’ve got a little pull around there, don’t you?
Eric Segalstad (15:51.854)
2027, yep.
Jason Elkins (15:55.175)
Okay. It sounds like just the terms in the way you’re describing this, I’m envisioning set departure group trips with extensions to go do something like Machu Picchu because some of the people in the group have been and don’t need to go to Machu Picchu and then others would. So is that what it is? set, set departure group trap with extensions?
Eric Segalstad (16:16.558)
Yeah. Yeah, we didn’t talk about this yet. So that’s a great question. So we, we do small group departures and they are scheduled. Um, so we have set our itineraries. We’ve spent a lot of time developing, uh, and putting thought into that itineraries, which a lot of travel companies do, of course. Um, and, um, our group sizes are between
Jason Elkins (16:36.305)
Well, hold on Eric, Eric, you say a lot of travel companies do that, but there’s also a lot of travel companies that kind of do mismatch of, know, the client comes to them and says, I want to do Machu Picchu, go to the salt flats and, Lake Titicaca and.
They just create something that maybe they haven’t done. I’m not knocking anybody. there’s room for all of us. And there’s that there’s definitely that type of thing where you, know, there’s some people you can go to and they’ll put you together some trip of a bunch of places they haven’t been. It sounds like your angle is a little bit more like, we’ve vetted these places. We know these places inside now, and we’re going to take a group there and really show them a good time. That’s what I’m hearing.
Eric Segalstad (17:00.183)
Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (17:22.796)
Yeah, no, and I think like for us having good flow and good pacing and sort of tell a narrative on our tours is something that’s really important to us where, and I know that our guests pick up on it. was just, I just guided two of our departures in Norway, because that’s where I’m originally from. So just came back from there a couple of weeks ago and you know, it’s so, it’s exciting to hear guests who have traveled with you a couple of times. starting to like pick up on the things that
We consider part of our brand that we consider part of how we run and operate tours, but they have observed that an experience that a few times now to where they’re able to verbalize it back to us where, you know, it’s the tours are kind of building. So if you go on a safari with us in Tanzania and the first, you know, full day we go to the Arusha national park and it’s different than the other national park. Cause it’s like densely wooded and they have some.
Jason Elkins (18:05.607)
You
Eric Segalstad (18:18.518)
You know, they have lots of wildlife there, but because of the dense woods, you don’t see everything, but that’s just the appetizer. Don’t worry about it. Like, sure. We might see, we might see, signs of elephants, but you’re to be extremely lucky if you see an elephant in original national park. Like I’ve, I’ve seen it one time and our guides to go there, you know, have been there hundreds of times. I’ve seen it two or three times. So you don’t see the elephants there, even though they live there because.
Jason Elkins (18:25.294)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (18:43.185)
Hmm.
Eric Segalstad (18:46.656)
It’s so densely wooded. that’s the appetizer. But two days later, when you’re in Tarangiro National Park, guess what? There’s elephants everywhere.
Jason Elkins (18:53.093)
You’ll see plenty. You will see plenty. Do you, do you typically send along a group leader, trip leader, either from the States or somebody that, I mean, I know that the guides on the ground also work with you and represent you, but do you have somebody that goes with the group and stays with them the entire time? Or what does that look like?
Eric Segalstad (19:14.03)
Yeah, that’s a good question too. So in Alaska, we operate our own trips. We contract with our own guides and we own the buses and the infrastructure and have it all set up. So it’s all very, very tightly kind of under our direct control and domain. So there, you know, you’re with two guides for a group size between 14 and 18. So we have two guides. They’re all very qualified to know the area.
And then on our international trips, often we do send trip leaders just to, I don’t know, it’s, it’s kind of a, there’s a couple of ways that we think about it internally. One is, it helps to kind of just be a bridge between the local guides and our groups. it also is a way for us to either in my case or Jared or Danny, who is our operation manager’s case just helps us. Cause we need to go in the field sometimes and then we act as
Jason Elkins (20:11.685)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (20:11.854)
as trip leaders. And then occasionally we also send some of our guides from elsewhere as a trip leader, because it gives them a chance to experience our tours in a different part of the world and get to know guides in different parts of the world, just as a sort of colleague to colleague. And that knowledge that they and excitement that they had from going somewhere else, they can bring back with them to where they are guiding, most typically Alaska.
so far, anyway, so we have, for example, later this fall, we have one of our Alaska guides is going to join as a trip leader in Argentina. And we don’t need a trip leader to kind of run the tour there because we all actually operate that one ourselves too, through Danny who’s from there, but it’s, it’s just a way for, for, for kind of helping make that big world make small again. So it’s just a way to kind of make connections and, and, and bridge gaps. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (21:04.582)
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Jason Elkins (21:09.861)
Yeah. And I promised you before I hit record, this is not a business podcast. We’re not going to discuss business strategy and all that, but I will share one little thing that I used to lead a lot of group trips and mean realistically, there’s a lot of times I didn’t need to be there. had such great partners on the ground. and what an amazing opportunity to connect with your guests, both from the business, but mostly from a personal level and
I remember my boss at the time he’s like, Jason, I don’t like the word sales, but that’s the, that’s the conversation that we had. He’s like, Jason, the best place to sell a trip is on a trip. And he wasn’t meaning it like, you just got to go there. And, know, I wasn’t working on commission or anything. It was just the point being that if I’m with, know, I show up with the guests, get to know them. And within a couple of days it’s Jason, where are you going next? You know, where you, and it got to the point where if I set up a group trip that I was hosting.
it would most of the spots would fill really quick. And then we’re like, well, we probably ought to hold a couple spots for somebody new, you know, and then but then those new people just kind of fit right in. And then it’s like, and then it becomes when are we going next? It’s not Jason, where are you going next? It’s where are we going next? And you know, sometimes half of the group that went to me to Belize with me, might go to Patagonia with me or whatever. And it’s, it’s
That’s part of the fun of doing this work is to create those connections. And it’s like, you’ve got your group of travel buddies and friends and they feel the same way. which honestly is a big part of what draws people to group travel anyway, right? Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (22:34.806)
It is.
Eric Segalstad (22:47.33)
Yeah, absolutely. No, no, it’s, it’s, it’s so true. And it also goes the other way around too now where I was just on these, these two Norway trips and, and got, you know, had examples of people that I’d been with on tour before and had people that been with us on tour, meeting other people in our organization before. And then also some, some people who had never been traveling with us before, but the whole group just gelled so quickly together. And then
Jason Elkins (23:12.327)
you
Eric Segalstad (23:14.926)
You know, some of the first time travelers, they asked me a lot about Tanzania and the safari there. And two weeks after they came back, they, you they were texting with me and then they ended up, ended up booking the trip. And now I want to go with them. So now I want to go to Tanzania because it was a good time. no, but it’s, it’s just, you know, it’s hard to find. mean, if I look, look around, like I have a lot of people in my life in the community where I live.
Jason Elkins (23:31.035)
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Segalstad (23:44.384)
And a lot of them were like, Hey, I’d to go traveling with you. And I’m like, okay. But I don’t know if I want to go traveling with everyone that are in my life at home, but the people that I meet out on tour, they’re more like minded when it comes to traveling. So I actually be more prone to traveling with our guests and some of my friends.
Jason Elkins (24:03.909)
Well, now, now we know that you’re not going to tell any of your friends that you’re on this podcast. I’m sure they get it. get it. the other, if I, know, what I hear you saying is if I told you about this podcast, you’re a friend, you’re one of the friends that I would travel with. That’s what I hear you saying. If you’re one of the people I don’t want to travel with, you’re never going to hear it. Cause I’m not even going to tell you that I was on.
Eric Segalstad (24:09.424)
now it’s alright. It’s all good.
I wasn’t talking about you, good friend. I was talking about them.
Eric Segalstad (24:24.75)
Exactly, that’s that.
Eric Segalstad (24:32.064)
Yeah
Jason Elkins (24:32.099)
So, all right, that sounds like a good deal. and kind of touching on that, or what you were just saying was it was so much fun back in the office. We had a smaller team that you have. but it got to the point where like, I had traveled with some of the same people that Jeremy had traveled and Abby had traveled with.
So like when their names came up in the office, it’s like, yeah, well, when we were in Mongolia, Bruce did this and that and yeah. Well, when he was in Brazil with me, did this and not making fun of them. Maybe it sounds like that’s what I’m saying, but it’s just, it’s so much fun as a team to, have these mutual people that we maybe have never seen in the same place at the same, like Jeremy and I might not be in the same place with Bruce, but he’s been somewhere with Bruce. I’ve been somewhere with Bruce and it’s just, it’s fun and
Honestly, I think that that’s where some of the tour operators that only do the kind of the custom trips or the Bespoke itineraries that don’t travel with their guests very often. I think that’s kind of part of the fun that they miss out on But you know, but I also recognize that trip waiting can can be a challenge as well Because not everybody in a group is always a lot of fun. I mean, they always are they’re always a lot of fun What do you so someone that’s listening to this that?
Eric Segalstad (25:35.692)
Yeah, no.
Jason Elkins (25:50.865)
thinks that, I would love to lead group trips. That just sounds like what a dream. Just travel the world with people and show them all this great stuff. What advice would you have for anybody that might be thinking that that hasn’t done it?
Eric Segalstad (26:03.564)
Yeah. Are you sure? Are you sure? No, think it’s a phenomenal lifestyle for some people, but it requires a unique set of skills, I think, because you’re basically working 18 hours a day with people who are your guests, your customers.
Jason Elkins (26:05.095)
Because you like it looks so easy, Eric. I think I could do that job.
Eric Segalstad (26:31.806)
And you have to make sure everyone is seen and heard and having a good time. and then, you know, people are people. there might be things that come up, that are within your control or not within your control. and you just have to kind of problem solve and think on your feet. And again, just always for the smile. so just, just kind of that part of it is perfect for some people depends on how you are wired, but for a lot.
I’d say probably for most people, when you’re kind of grinding that out on a 10 day trip, that might be too much for a lot of people.
Jason Elkins (27:08.869)
Yeah. Yeah. would agree. Do you think, can you think of like a, when you say types of people, maybe they’re wired for it. And I’ve had this conversation with a other people. So I’m curious what your thoughts, if you were to, if you were recruiting for trip leaders and you hired a recruiter to go do that, what industry would you suggest they go after? If they had to go find people that have never been trip leaders, where would you suggest that they go look for candidates that you thought could have a better chance of doing the job?
Eric Segalstad (27:28.867)
Mmm.
Eric Segalstad (27:35.222)
I’ve had, yeah, in terms of finding guides over the years, I’ve had great success with former teachers, retired teachers, because they’re used to being sort the leader in a group setting classroom. They’re used to dealing with all sorts of different personalities who are in the sense of kids, they might be kind of doing all sorts of weird things all at the same time that you need to kind of hurt them.
Jason Elkins (27:52.665)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (28:04.982)
get them back together and make them focus. So I think there’s a lot of skill sets there that, that, that transfer.
Jason Elkins (28:07.879)
And it can be like that with a bunch of 50 and 60 year olds too, on vacation.
Eric Segalstad (28:14.424)
can. mean, it’s not to the same extent, at least not with our guests, it’s not to the same extent. I would not compare it to a classroom. what I do stand by though is that I think that a teacher’s skill set really translates really well with additional training to become a great tour guide for small groups. I really do believe that because they are
Jason Elkins (28:19.687)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (28:35.591)
Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (28:37.346)
You know, teachers, are fond of knowledge and sharing it and are good at finding a way to share that. And they’re good at being leaders for a group and kind of getting people to kind of focus together and also do so in a fun and communal way. So that’s why I do find that teachers are fantastic, usually make for fantastic tour guides.
Jason Elkins (28:59.847)
I figured you might say that because I agree completely. um, and the other one I’ve heard come up that makes sense. And I don’t know because I never done it, but is bartenders. I’ve heard that people that have, you know, work bars long enough. I’m pretty good at juggling a bunch of interests and people and maybe long shifts and, just making sure, you know, that you, cause you’re just dealing with a bunch of different people. It’s a little different obviously on a tour, but.
Eric Segalstad (29:25.56)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (29:27.995)
but also to be a good bartender anyway, you have to be fairly outgoing and driven to accomplish the goals and able to follow the rules as opposed to just letting people walk all over you. And I’m not saying that tour leaders have a problem with people walking all over them, but it’s more like, hey.
We do need to get going because somebody’s waiting for us, doing it, but doing it in a way that people feel like it’s natural. And it’s not like, man, you know, our guide was running us around like a drill sergeant, cause that’s not going to work either. So, but anyway, it’s just a, so, you know, if, if we don’t, if we don’t stop our 62nd elevator pitch soon, we’re going to miss out on some other thing. So I know that’s where this all started. Let’s take a pause on this because I want to make sure that.
Eric Segalstad (30:11.33)
Hahaha
Jason Elkins (30:18.225)
Cause this show is really about the connection. think you mentioned it’s kind of human interest, whatever. And I’m super interested in you as a human as well. So I want to make sure we take an opportunity to figure out how the heck did you get from wherever you were to where you are now? So how far back are you comfortable going to help us walk us through the journey? We don’t have to cover every, we don’t have to cover every detail, but when do you think it things started to happen that maybe shaped your, your future?
Eric Segalstad (30:45.388)
Yeah. I think looking back, it was probably pretty early just in terms of, my sense of adventure. spent a lot of time outdoors, you know, hiking and camping around in Norway where I grew up and, with my family as well. We, my dad, I think I mentioned a little bit earlier, he’s now retired, geologist. So he was a professor at the university of Oslo. and, we,
Growing up in Europe, like Spain, like Southern Spain is sort of the Florida of Europe where a lot of people from Northern Europe will fly down to Southern Europe to soak up the sun during the winter months. And my friends would go to the Canary Islands and the Gold Coast down there to kind of soak up the sun. And we never did. I was like, I was pissed about that when I was seven or eight years old. Like, why do we have to, why can’t we do this?
Jason Elkins (31:40.711)
You
Eric Segalstad (31:44.47)
So, but I come to really recognize later that a big sense of adventure came from the things that we did as a family. we had, for example, we went to Iceland twice and would take back then there was a car. It was a ferry where you could, it was a car ferry. So you could go from Bergen on the West coast of Norway. And then it was like two and half or three day sail over to Iceland. So we would go with our car. This was in the eighties.
Jason Elkins (32:07.31)
Eric Segalstad (32:13.23)
to go with our car over to Iceland. So the first time we did the ring road all the way around Iceland, and that was in our, know, I think maybe like in late 70s Volvo station wagon. so that was the first trip. But then two years later, we came back and by then, my dad had one of the G wagons, like it was a four wheel drive vehicle. And this time we crossed Iceland, there’s no road.
Jason Elkins (32:27.28)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (32:41.166)
And so there are just sort of like tracks and you cross like glacial streams along the way. You need to kind of find your path to safely cross this cross the streams. Uh, I think there was like one place that was sort of like a. Lodging of questionable standard in the middle of there somewhere, but everything else was just camping, you know, and we’re like in lunar landscapes. There’s no, there’s no gas station. had Jerry cans of, of gasoline on the roof and uh,
Jason Elkins (33:07.409)
Hmm?
Eric Segalstad (33:10.146)
So that was like a great experience and I was like 10 years old doing that with my family.
Jason Elkins (33:13.756)
Let me ask you this. Let me ask this before I forget. You described two, three day ferry trip. Did you like camp in the car or I mean, did this.
Eric Segalstad (33:23.2)
Yeah, so it’s no so you park the car on the ferry on the on the bottom deck. And then they had some very, simple, I would not call them staterooms like cabins, you know, very simple that you could say it was not a fancy, fancy ferry. But it was it was good enough to kind of get across and yeah.
Jason Elkins (33:35.655)
you
Jason Elkins (33:44.583)
And it was presumably more economical than flying and renting a car.
Eric Segalstad (33:50.378)
probably, but I also think my dad liked the idea of bringing his own gear and things like that. So yeah.
Jason Elkins (33:55.557)
Yeah. So then the other, I’m just guessing he’s a geologist and you’re going to Iceland. was more about the interesting geology there and where you guys like, we say spend a lot of time climbing around in the creek beds and picking up rocks or.
Eric Segalstad (34:07.256)
That was…
Eric Segalstad (34:12.28)
A little bit. Yeah, a little bit for sure. mean, the thing is like a lot of our vacations ended up, I started sensing a pattern after a while, you know, I’m not the smartest guy, but after a while it started to be like, vacation ends up being an interesting volcano or some other geological feature.
Jason Elkins (34:26.983)
Well, yeah, when you’re young, you don’t put that together. You’re like, okay, this is just what the world looks like. The world looks like a lot of volcanoes and, and glaciers.
Eric Segalstad (34:32.001)
Nah.
Eric Segalstad (34:38.414)
So yeah, so that was like early, early formative experience, I think, like doing that. And then once I was old enough to kind of branch out on my own, you know, I went to college in the United States and I have a background in business. I was actually studying finance and economics. And I liked it as like an academic kind of academic discipline. It sort of made sense for me at the time.
and then my goal, I, my goal in like high school in the early part of college was like, okay, I’ll just work, make a bunch of money and then retire early so I can travel and see the world. And then sort of my senior year, I was like, wait a minute, like, why wouldn’t I want to see the world while I’m still, you know, young at. Yeah. So, I got, I got a job out of college in, in, in the financial field, which was a great.
Jason Elkins (35:17.383)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (35:24.811)
Yeah. And what if? What if you never know what’s going to happen, right?
Eric Segalstad (35:37.486)
kind of, it was actually a really great opportunity for what I was interested in at the time. But I kept living like a college student. So meaning I had a good paycheck, but I like, I was so frugal, and I saved all of the money. And then I worked for like a year or so. And then I went traveling, I got a one way ticket to Central America and spent almost a year traveling around. And just kind of got a
It was like a sense of adventure, a sense of freedom, a sense of exploration. So that was a nice time. And after that, I came back to Norway. helped co-found a search engine optimization company. And this was like in 2000. that was, there was like, people didn’t even understand. A big part of my job was to kind of do these like little seminars to kind of.
teach people the importance of SEO and what it was. That was a brand new discipline and then try to convince them that they should, you know, buy services from us. So, and it’s a hard sell. You as a sales, you know, former person in sales, sounds like you know this, Jason, like it’s easier when people know they have a problem that they want to fill that you can sell. It’s a lot harder when you have to explain that they do have a blind side that they didn’t know about and we’re here to fix it. we did, we did.
Jason Elkins (36:56.231)
And they’re not usually particularly that interested in learning about it.
Eric Segalstad (37:01.568)
No, so, it, it, we did okay, but it was, it was, we’re kind of a little bit too early, I think, almost for that. But so I helped do that. I helped grow that business for three years or so. And then I sold it to the majority owner and then did the same thing again, took my state meager savings and, and this time traveled around Southeast Asia. I traveled in Spain, Morocco and a few other places. So again, just like kind of.
getting these experiences that were important to me. I’ve also been a long time passionate backcountry skier. So skiing big mountains, you climb up on skins on your skis and then you ski down. So we also had, with a couple of friends of mine, we went to Iran to ski in the mountains there. there was like, the reason why I’m sharing that is like that a big part of, for me is travel and experiencing new places, but also finding
different places to go ski mountaineering has also been a big driver for me. So I’ve had experiences in, yeah, in Gulmarg, Kashmir really early on. It’s another project I did called Line of Control, where I was a sponsored blog where there wasn’t really any information about skiing in Kashmir. This was back in 2006, 2007. So I was able to kind of put a
project together with a media company, you get some industry sponsors from equipment manufacturers and so forth. And then documenting, you know, skiing in Goulmour, again, they have a couple of ski lifts there from the sixties and it was kind of like a wild west at the time out there. that honestly helped put that place a little bit on the map. was a lot of people kind of coming in the seasons beyond that, that came.
Because of the blog and I say that with conviction because I know several of the people have been going there ever since and started businesses and to bring people there that were inspired by that. So I skipped ahead just one step. So in between, before I went to Kashmir, I felt really an urge to get into storytelling. So just being able to communicate in writing. was a big reader and being all these
Eric Segalstad (39:23.608)
places, traveling to all these places, just my mind was going places that it wouldn’t go at home. And I think most travelers can appreciate that, especially if you’re traveling on your own or in really, really small groups and you have like a good pacing where that kind of allows you to let your mind drift a little bit. So I got really drawn to writing and I saw that storytelling was a good skill to have.
I got accepted into master’s program in journalism, not because I wanted to become a journalist, but it was more because I really wanted to become a better writer and a better storyteller. And I talked my way into some creative writing workshops for the master’s program in creative writing, which was a different program. But through, I was able to talk my way into those, which was also very helpful. So kind of coming out of my graduate studies, I
I spent a couple of years as a skiing and outdoor journalist while I was working on some other writing projects as well. So I did a lot of work with ski and skiing magazines and Mountain Gazette and other outdoor publications. And that’s when I ended up in creating this project in Kashmir around that time. And then I saw that while it was a fun…
life and living, didn’t really see a financial future that was where it was achievable to buy a house and kind of grow up and kind of have more grown up expenses. And I was, I was getting a little bit, you know, I was at that point, I was probably my late twenties, probably. And keep in mind, I was coming out of like business school 10 years earlier where, you know, my peers from business school already kind of exhaled from a financial and built. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (40:53.231)
Mmm.
Jason Elkins (41:11.153)
They’re, they’re directors, VPs and, and you’ve got a really cool travel blog.
Eric Segalstad (41:14.318)
And here I am just like, yeah, and I, you know, I don’t pay for my skis and gear, but I don’t have much else to show for it either. So.
Jason Elkins (41:20.935)
you
Jason Elkins (41:24.935)
But at the same time, I bet they were all looking at you thinking, my gosh, look at him, right? That grass is always greener type of thing, yeah.
Eric Segalstad (41:31.746)
grass is always greener. you know, I think that for me, I just knew that there was there’s a very, very select few people in that world who’s able to make a decent middle class living, you know, and I, and there’s, it’s just a hustle on the grind. I don’t mind working, I’ve worked, you know, hard at going through my going to my goals or achieving my goals for my whole life. But it was a different kind of grind that wasn’t
Jason Elkins (41:45.264)
Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (42:02.7)
there was very little financial reward at the end of that grind. that kind of helped shift my focus a little bit.
Jason Elkins (42:07.515)
And I’m.
And I’m curious, we don’t need to go into this, but it’s an interesting thing that, myself and other people that I’ve had conversations with. Recognizes a challenge, especially when you’re traveling to that level and you have, you know, maybe some instability in your life. can make developing relationships with people, maintaining relationships with people. so I wanted to touch on.
How did your parents feel or other people in your family feel about you? And you kind of just took off to go do this stuff. And what did the relationship stuff kind of, was that part of why I think I need to go buy a house and grow up now? And I’m trying to use your words. but so that’s the question. And then like, what advice do you have for other people that are still in the traveling stage? you know, that might help them figure some of this out a little quicker.
Eric Segalstad (43:05.996)
Yeah. Well, I think with my parents, think they already knew years before that I was very driven to do my own things. I was always academically good at what I did. So that was an important thing for them because they’re both academics. So they were, that was really important that I kind of went and got a degree and, know, and then
Jason Elkins (43:19.899)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (43:26.811)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (43:34.956)
Beyond that, there were definitely some destinations that would go to such as Iran and Kashmir where they’re like, really? Are you sure about this? I don’t know about this, but they also knew that they couldn’t stop me and nor would they necessarily try to stop me. But they were just, you know, being what good parents should do, which is when you are concerned about something, you bring it up. And at that point I was an adult. So then, you know, I would have to do what I wanted to do with that information and that opinion.
Jason Elkins (43:41.895)
you
Jason Elkins (43:49.35)
Hmm?
Jason Elkins (43:58.673)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (44:03.953)
Great.
Eric Segalstad (44:05.26)
So that part was good. In terms of relationships, think actually I was, I think I felt more connected to more people then than I do, that I did immediately thereafter. This was still a time where people, or at least I took the time to write long emails to people that were like of a personal nature to stay in touch as a, you know.
Jason Elkins (44:16.454)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (44:31.116)
Hey, we’re past a letter writing, but I’m still writing an email, like a letter. So I was actually really good at keeping in touch with people that lived in different places that where I had lived, I had connection to. then sort of this notion of like house was not that I wanted to buy a house then and there, I was just kind of looking ahead in the future. Like, I don’t know what I’m going to be doing, but I don’t think, I think this is a really fun and great experience to have had for a few years, but this is not what I need to be.
Jason Elkins (45:00.931)
Maybe not sustainable, huh? Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (45:01.358)
continuing. Yeah, it’s not sustainable. just didn’t. And I think a big part of it was maybe even less of the money and more the grind for very little money. Because, you know, for anyone who’s written for magazines, you know, you spend a lot of time pitching coming up with a story. you’re pitching an article idea. So you’re already doing a bunch of work upfront for just on spec speculation, you have no idea. And then if the editor likes likes it,
Jason Elkins (45:25.179)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (45:30.786)
then great, then they might say, okay, now do a story and they might change the focus of the story a little bit to fit what they think works better for their publication. and then maybe you do the work and you get paid by the word. and then, but you don’t get paid yet. So you deliver, all the work and you get paid within like a month or so after the publication of the story. And in terms of like pre-articles, like magazines, you could do the work.
like eight months before and then get paid before publication and get paid like 10 months later. So then 10 months after you kind of did the majority of the work, you’re getting paid a little bit of money. It’s just, it’s it’s just this grind. It’s just like not a great business model for a writer.
Jason Elkins (46:01.817)
No.
Jason Elkins (46:15.771)
Well, and also, I I don’t, I’m not going to suggest this about you, but myself who’s passionate about travel. I’ve been traveling full-time for four years. I’m, I still need to grow up. I was growing up for a while, but anyway, I’ve been traveling for four years. And for me, it’s because I love, I like the variety. I like the uncertainty, actually thrive in the uncertainty. but for me to plan my, my budget eight months in advance.
If I’m doing work now that I’m not going to get paid for eight months for that’s like outside of my window of I, I almost can’t even see that far into the future. So it’s hard for me to do the grind for something that’s going to pay off eight months from now. So I just maybe, you know, when you were at that point in your life, I don’t know. Uh, yeah, I can see the challenge. Um, so, so when you, so is that how you ended up in Vermont or walk me through the next steps to what got you there?
Eric Segalstad (47:05.506)
Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (47:14.284)
Yeah, no, was in, I was in, based out of Boulder, Colorado during the kind of my ski journalism phase. and, I was in a relationship with someone from Vermont who lived in Colorado and she wanted to move back home for her. so I did, the relationship didn’t work out over time.
Jason Elkins (47:19.824)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (47:30.663)
Hmm.
Eric Segalstad (47:39.554)
But I found a great community here of people and I found my now wife here as well. So she was living here as well. She’s not from Vermont either. So that’s how I ended up here. And while I was here, this kind of brings us to this next phase, which explains how I ended up in the travel business, was I spent time.
working as a marketing consultant because I, at this point, just kind of summarizing some of the skillsets, you know, like I have the business background, I’d already helped build a company in the early stages. I knew how to use modern technology, digital marketing tools in order to be seen, in order to be found, and also had the storytelling experience as well from
all of the writing that I’d done. just kind of putting all of those things together and continuing to want to live an independent life and not be someone going into an office every day. I was working as an independent marketing consultant. So was helping businesses grow and there’d be all different kinds of businesses. There were, you know, small to medium businesses. And I would come and help establish like
help established marketing teams with some of their tasks, or it might be someone like a law firm, for example, that doesn’t have someone on marketing, but they’re an active law firm and serving the community and they also are facing competition. They need to make sure that they’re being found and so forth. So that is, that was one of my clients was a law firm like that. And I did a, I think a great job for them. And then.
Uh, one of the partners there mentioned me and my skillset to his wife, who was a director for a tour operator. And she was like, this sounds like someone that we should meet. So I was invited to come into this meeting, um, that I, you know, it was a sort of like word of mouth and you know, that’s how it works for a lot of, a lot of us is word of mouth. So I came into the meeting and the president of that company, the tour operator was also there and,
Jason Elkins (49:45.244)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (49:55.158)
We had a meeting and it went really well and they wanted to engage me for like 15 hours a week or something like that, which, which worked with my schedule. I was excited because the first time I met someone when they kind of. At that time I had, you know, my resume, had like travel, you know, I just kind of had like different countries I’ve been to. And for the first time, that was like an important part of my resume, you know, first meeting.
Jason Elkins (50:15.033)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right, right.
Eric Segalstad (50:19.544)
where they’re like, my, you’ve been to all of these places and we have tours and almost all of them and you’ve been to most of the places. So that was like an additional kind of skillset, right? So they didn’t need to tell me what it’s like in Morocco, right? Because I spent time in Morocco, not on their tour, but I read the itinerary, I talked to the tour manager and find ways to, you
Jason Elkins (50:34.331)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:42.107)
Well, and you’ve got a proven interest in travel because the reality is can go to most people, if you go to them and say, we’ve got a job in the travel industry. Do you like to travel? Are you excited about travel? Most people are going to say yes. You know, they might, they might be really good marketers. They might be really organized. They might have a lot of skills, but they’re going to say yes. But then when you look at the person that’s
got a passport stamped full of stuff and just went on their own because they were drawn to do it. That’s a totally different thing. Right. So I get that. Whereas maybe a more traditional type of company interviewing you or meeting with you might look at your list of all the places and said, this guy has no stability. He’s only going to be around for a year. He’s obviously got ADHD and it might actually count against you. I don’t know. What do you think?
Eric Segalstad (51:38.786)
Yeah, no, I agree. Like that was the first time I was like, wow, this is actually something positive. I like this. So, and it was a great, it was a really great organization. So I would do some work independently and I’ll come into the office and I actually enjoyed the people that were there. And I was like, wow, these are my kind of people, right? These are people working in the travel industry. And I don’t think that I would have, I feel like I came in at the right time for me.
Jason Elkins (51:40.397)
you
Eric Segalstad (52:08.098)
Right. So I felt like I needed to have this journey until I started working with, with that company. And over time it ended up being a lot more work, you know, so I got more and more work and responsibility as I was able to deliver. And at the end of, at the end of my tenure there, I was the director of marketing for, the company and helping, helping drive.
Jason Elkins (52:08.241)
you
Eric Segalstad (52:32.482)
the business helping maintain the brands, not as much shaping it because it was already pretty established brand. So I learned a lot from people that were there and learned a lot about the travel industry as well. And while I was working for them, also, cause I was still working as a consultant for most of my time there. So I was at liberty to work with others. So I expanded to work with other
non-competing travel businesses as well. So, one of my other clients do, predominantly like Arctic cruises and some Antarctic cruises, for examples, that was non-competing with the company I was with. So that kind of expanded my, my, expertise a little bit as well, because you learn from how different companies are doing different things and different guest profiles and different destinations, different style of travel.
So that was one of several examples where I worked as a consultant for a lot of different companies in our space. So that kind of brings me to a assignment that I was on. I was working with, it’s basically volunteer work with the Rainforest Alliance. And this was probably 13, 14, 14, 15 years ago or so. So I was in,
Jason Elkins (53:28.455)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (53:57.42)
I was in del Oriente in Ecuador in the Amazon part of Ecuador. And the Rainforest Alliance were helping a collection of indigenous owned lodges in Ecuador and Amazon. And they were all different standards. They had no similarities other than the fact that they were owned and operated by the indigenous tribes in the areas where they were. So I was there as part of a sort of an industry contingent from
Jason Elkins (54:02.117)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (54:27.436)
North America where there’s five of us, I think, and we were experiencing the largest, as a guest. And then we would kind of be really aware since we are from the industry and then we would, then we had a meeting in Quito in Ecuador, the capital, after it all wrapped up, after we had a chance to experience the largest. And then we had a sort of a, you know, hotel meeting room type of meeting with the,
with the leaders of each of the lodges and just offering them advice on different things on how they could do tweaks they could make to kind of make their product better or their marketing better or their branding better and so forth. for example, it could be as simple as, Hey, we noticed that your mosquito netting was all brown and American North American travelers, when they come in and see that, how do they feel about it?
Yeah, it’s kind of gross. It doesn’t feel a lot of clean, all that stuff. So that it could be something at that level to, Hey, when I go on your website, you position yourself as being this. But when I experienced it there on the ground, it actually felt more like that. There’s nothing wrong about this or that. But if you’re that, then let’s try to manage expectations by, positioning yourself on the website in a different way, which is a major thing, right? Because if you miss that.
Jason Elkins (55:23.025)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (55:48.721)
Alright.
Eric Segalstad (55:53.186)
then guests come and they show up and they feel like they don’t, they’re not getting what they signed up for.
Jason Elkins (55:59.463)
Or the flip side is maybe the place is actually, I don’t want to use the word nicer, but maybe it’s nicer. That’s just for simplicity. Maybe the actual location is much better than what’s represented on the website. So then they’re missing out on opportunities there. So either way, it’s not a win. Yeah, I get that. All right.
Eric Segalstad (56:21.39)
So while I was there, so the first lodge we went to was the Kapawi Eco Lodge. And it was beautiful. was pretty simple, not like basic, but it was kind of simple. There’s no AC or anything. It’s all kind of built up over kind of a wetland area set aside from a river.
Eric Segalstad (56:50.434)
the Atchuar who are the tribe that live there, they just absolute bad asses in the rainforest, you know? And it was a really cool experience where you learned a lot from them. I think it’s perfect, not for someone looking for like premium accommodations and lodging, but someone who wants like nice and clean and good food, but not extravagant, but like focus on.
Jason Elkins (57:13.594)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (57:17.602)
sort of what you’re there to experience. Like it’s perfect for them. So while I was there, I met a younger than me man who was, who was volunteering for the, at the village for the atuar. And then about once a week he would come to, he would travel by canoe and foot to kind of make it to the lodge to access wifi. So he could check his beloved soccer scores.
from the European league and you send an email to his parents saying it was good and kind of catch up and maybe talk English with someone who was a native English speaker, that kind of stuff. So he would show up at the lodge. So I meet this guy, his name is Jared, and he was about to enter his last year of law school. He was studying environmental law at Tulane in New Orleans. And he said, hey, I really don’t want to become an attorney anymore. I really want to start a travel company.
Jason Elkins (57:55.217)
Right, right.
Eric Segalstad (58:15.694)
And I liked the guy and so we had some great conversations and
Jason Elkins (58:20.999)
Did he kind of know what you’d been doing when he said that or is he just was so anxious to tell somebody that he told the first person that he could?
Eric Segalstad (58:25.518)
No, no, he already, yeah, he already knew at that point, he already knew that I was in the, the business. And it was kind of like in, in the world is, is, is a little bit small. It was just kind of, I was representing a company that
he went, he traveled with that company, the same company on his first international trip with his parents. So like it was his introduction to international travel was with the company that I was representing at the time. so that was kind of an interesting coincidence and connection. so, we, had some great conversations, over the course of, you know, two days and then I left and I gave him my information so that he can keep in touch. and I was just.
Jason Elkins (58:56.967)
okay, so you guys, media connection. Yeah, yeah.
Eric Segalstad (59:14.638)
helping him, you know, I was just kind of sharing as you know, in the weeks and months and year that that that followed, I would, you know, take time to answer his questions via email. And also we had some phone calls. And then he founded going to want to Ecotours. And he said, Do you want to do you want to join me? I want you to work with me. And I was like, Yeah, that’s, you know, he wasn’t funded, right. So I was like, Yeah, that’s I have a life now. And I just couldn’t do that financially. It just didn’t make any sense to me.
But I said, I’d love to keep helping you and I’m happy to do so. But now that you’ve started the company, it probably makes sense for you to start paying me even if it’s just a little bit. So he paid me what was for him, a decent amount of money out of his meager budget. And what’s for me at the time, a teeny amount of what I pulled in as a consultant in the business. But again, this was just like, I, you know, I really felt
Jason Elkins (59:55.143)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:00:06.705)
Uh-huh.
Eric Segalstad (01:00:13.302)
Like he was a, he was a friend, right? We had developed a friend kind of friendship, but at the same time I was helping his business. So, yeah, so I’ve been involved since, before the company was founded and the whole plan, the whole, the entire way along was once we got to a level that made sense that I would join full time. yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:00:36.807)
So out of a meeting while on a trip, working in the business on a trip, you created this. And I couldn’t help but be reminded when we were discussing earlier, when I said the best place to sell a trip is on a trip. It’s because of those connections. It’s because you have such a different connection with someone when you meet them at an eco lodge, let’s say, know, in Ecuador or wherever.
As opposed to a LinkedIn connection, a phone call, or you happen to run into somebody down at the pub or whatever. That’s pretty cool. So, and now you’re there and you guys are doing big things. So how long have you been at a point where you were actually making money? I don’t know how else to ask you. When did you go from kind of a…
Eric Segalstad (01:01:27.214)
Hahaha!
Jason Elkins (01:01:32.273)
barely paid consultant to, I’m on the team and I’m all in now.
Eric Segalstad (01:01:37.006)
Oh yeah, you mean with with Gondwana? Yeah, so it’s just yeah, my contract expanded a little bit over time, but it was still fairly meager. And then I must have phenomenal timing because I joined the business full time and then kind of swore off and you know, winded down all my other contracts that I had as a consultant with others on. So January 1st, 2020 is when I joined.
Jason Elkins (01:01:38.961)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:04.239)
I knew you were going to say that, but, but you know, your other contracts probably would have struggled too. So I don’t know. Was it a good, I you say it kind of jokingly, was it actually a good thing or.
Eric Segalstad (01:02:14.307)
It was.
Eric Segalstad (01:02:18.018)
I think it was a good thing. here’s the thing. I kind of, you know, at this point I had the house and my wife and I were married and had been for, you know, five years, six years at a time. we kind of had this life, right? That most people live where you have expenses and bills to pay and, you know, all of that.
Jason Elkins (01:02:19.654)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:36.933)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (01:02:39.054)
Um, and so I joined like we’re doing, I’m doing this full time now. I’m fully on the team. Don’t have any other distractions work wise. This is it. And then, you know, three months, not even three months later, poof, you know, we give each other a very, um, generous 50 % pay cut to try to kind of make, make this go by. But I think it was good in the sense that I was able, actually I was able to pick up some.
Jason Elkins (01:02:53.553)
Yeah.
Eric Segalstad (01:03:08.48)
work outside of the industry because of, you know, people I know and I’ve worked with before. So was able to work specifically with a friend of mine locally here who owns a design marketing agency and he doesn’t have a lot of my brand skills in, or he doesn’t have that in house. So I was able to join on product projects with him that benefited his company, benefited his clients and also benefited me.
Jason Elkins (01:03:21.831)
Okay.
Eric Segalstad (01:03:37.134)
Right. Because I was financially, I was able to do moonlight and do some of that. But going back to Gondwana, it was, you know, it was hard for everyone in the travel industry. Of course we, you know, something that was unprecedented for any of us in our, in our business. And, know, I’d been through the 2008 financial crisis and seeing what that could do. I’d been through, um, you know, volcanoes and Iceland blowing. like the whole like Northern Europe.
Jason Elkins (01:03:37.615)
Right, right, right.
Eric Segalstad (01:04:05.174)
summer season is shot for a company that relied on that. It’s like, I’d seen that, but never had I experienced that you couldn’t even utter the word travel. Like that was new to all of us. So we hunkered down and there was three of us at that point that were able to kind of sustain and maintain. And we hunkered down and we did the best that we could. And then we decided
Jason Elkins (01:04:06.822)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:04:16.793)
Yeah, yep.
Eric Segalstad (01:04:34.318)
Well, at some point, we don’t know when, at some point people will start traveling again. We are guessing that it will be gradual that people either will not be comfortable traveling internationally when it first starts opening up or they’ll legitimately be impossible due to, you know, red tape from the, from the different countries. So, you know, 90 % of our clientele.
Jason Elkins (01:04:51.783)
Great.
Eric Segalstad (01:05:01.774)
are from the US. that’s who majority of guests are. So we were just thinking, you know what, where’s a place, a bucket list place that we think people are going to travel to when it opens up? Alaska. Well, we already had, the time we had, I think we only had two itineraries. Maybe we had three at the time. don’t remember. We had two or three itineraries in Alaska at the time. And those were more or less year round because in between Northern light season and the summer season.
Jason Elkins (01:05:14.734)
Alaska, yep.
Eric Segalstad (01:05:31.458)
That’s almost year round in Alaska. So we kind of put all of our chips in for the summer season to begin with and also winter season, but put all our chips in by getting hotel reservations. And we’re like, let’s just have a bunch of reservations. We can cancel them without penalty if we do so, so far in advance. They’ll totally understand if we do, because if people aren’t traveling yet, they’re not going to be able to fill them anyway. it’s, you know, let’s just try. And then we, I mean, we
Jason Elkins (01:05:56.775)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Segalstad (01:06:01.432)
We didn’t sit on our hands doing nothing, but we’re kind of sitting on our hands doing nothing, waiting for the phone to ring, right? So in the spring of 2021, phone started ringing. Hey, we’d like to go to Alaska. And within like a couple of weeks, we were completely sold out in Alaska for our summer. So we, given where we were set up and what the few chips we had to kind of play on this table, we ended up in retrospect ended up playing them the best way that we could have for our size.
Jason Elkins (01:06:15.952)
Wow, yeah.
Eric Segalstad (01:06:30.988)
our network. we came out of the pandemic, like many other companies too, but we came out of the pandemic, kind of like a rocket. So we had several years of just being really with you catering to all that pent up demand. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:06:32.167)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:06:45.467)
Well, that’s good for the guests as well, because when they’re able to find an operator that was planning ahead and actually made reservations and had space, then that’s, that’s good for them as well, where there were a lot of operators that just like, we’re not doing anything. Like, we’re not going to spend a dime on anything. We’re not going to do any new product development. We’re just, just going to see if we can keep, you know, not even keep the lights on, just turn the lights off and hopefully.
You know, when things come back, we can jump back in the pool. So one, one minute, maybe just one more personal question is your wife, does she work in travel or you, was, you didn’t get the double whammy there, did you? I mean, maybe she wasn’t working at all. I don’t know, but,
Eric Segalstad (01:07:28.65)
No, no, we’re both, no, no, no, no. Yeah, so she’s a, she’s a mental health therapist. So yeah. Yeah. She, she still is busy.
Jason Elkins (01:07:35.855)
well, she probably was really busy. I don’t mean to say it as a joke, but I mean, it’s a reality. That’s one, my understanding, just through personal experiences with my family, that was an area that saw a pretty big increase in demand, which is a sad thing as well, but at least, all right, very cool. Eric, we’ve discussed a.
Eric Segalstad (01:07:53.506)
slowly.
Jason Elkins (01:08:01.543)
Bunch of things. Um, I think you’re a super interesting character. think that anybody that’s already doing business with you needs to hear your story. That’s just my personal, personal take on it, but also, um, you know, listeners that haven’t connected with you, haven’t connected with your company. There’s going to be a link right in the show notes. So I’m going to encourage them to go down there and go take a look at some of these trips and, um,
Maybe go check out salt flats or any, any number of places, but really just connect with you guys and see, see what makes sense. but before I let you go, is there anything I forgot to ask? I absolutely should have asked you or anything you want to make sure our listeners know either about you, life storytelling, the world, anything in particular that you want to make sure they, they hear before we wrap up.
Eric Segalstad (01:08:50.83)
I think the only thing, and you touched on this a little bit earlier in one of your comments, which is what draws you to travel, which is very similar to what draws me to travel, which I also think is the same that goes into how we create our tours and what also draws our guests to keep coming back. that is adventure is excitement. It’s.
feeling alive and it’s experiencing new things and meeting new people and really being humbled by learning new things from new people, just kind of understanding and seeing that things can be done differently than what you’re used to. And they’re just as sound, right? And the food that they eat might be completely different, but they’re just as sound. People are eating and living off of this. And what’s so awesome about travel is all of that and the fact that
for me, a good trip, you know, it’s physical, it’s mental, and there’s intellectual aspects all bundled into one. And that’s what I find so enticing about travel. And I think Jason, that’s maybe using some different words, but that’s probably what excites you about traveling too. And same for our guests. And, that kind of brings us back to our name. I know we didn’t really touch on Ecotours as much and what that means to us, which is okay, but
Jason Elkins (01:10:01.328)
yeah.
Eric Segalstad (01:10:12.278)
You know, it kind of brings us back to Gondwana and Big World Made Small where we’re kind of putting all of these things back together again. Cause I think that in times like these, I get so encouraged and inspired by seeing people coming together and coming together and finding common ground.
and experiencing things together and being able to laugh at ourselves a little bit and not take ourselves so seriously. I think that’s a beautiful thing. So while I cannot and we cannot solve the world’s biggest problems, I do feel like we’re making a small impact for a number of people within our spheres. And I think that goes the same holds true for you, Jason, and for all of our guests and all of your other panelists too. So thank you for putting this together.
Jason Elkins (01:11:00.711)
There’s absolutely, yeah, there’s absolutely nothing I could add to that. That’s, I have the privilege of looking at your face as I hear you say that. And it gets me excited because it resonates, resonates the same with me. if we can just bring people together, things change, you know, and, and I guess the only one thing I would add is there is a bit of a challenge and maybe our space because oftentimes.
the companies will hire really, really organized trip planners that really crave order and routine and certainty. So you take somebody that’s really good at making sure that things are certain and organized and happen flawless, and then try and figure out, OK, how do we mix in just a little bit of spontaneity to how do we
build into the itinerary that dinner with the family, living off the grid in Alaska. That can be a really hard concept for somebody that’s maybe coming from the banking industry or typically, you know, even finance industry. So it’s a challenge and it sounds like you guys are doing a pretty good job of it. so I think that’s pretty cool. So Eric, thank you so much. Appreciate you and a great conversation and look forward to doing it again at some point in the future. Thank you so much.
Eric Segalstad (01:12:21.25)
Jason, thank you so much for having me on and us on. I really love it. So it was a great time chatting with you. Thank you so much.
Jason Elkins (01:12:27.425)
Absolutely. Talk to you soon. Bye.
Eric Segalstad (01:12:29.688)
Bye.
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