Guest Bio
Felex Musinguzi is the Managing Director of Kazinga Tours, a leading travel company based in Uganda. With over two decades of experience in the tourism industry, Felex has dedicated his career to creating meaningful travel experiences while supporting sustainability and community empowerment. He grew up near Lake Bunyonyi and has channeled his deep connection to Uganda and commitment to local development into building one of East Africa’s most trusted safari companies.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Felex Musinguzi about his journey from a challenging childhood in rural Uganda to founding Kazinga Tours. Felex shares how his early work experiences and unexpected support from international volunteers shaped his path into tourism and entrepreneurship. He discusses the importance of building partnerships with international operators and how Kazinga Tours offers authentic, community-focused travel experiences.
The conversation also explores the complexities of tourism in Africa, addressing common misconceptions about the continent and emphasizing Uganda’s unique wildlife and cultural diversity. Felex highlights the company’s approach to responsible tourism, including immersive homestays and educational programs that connect visitors with local communities. He also talks about Kazinga Tours’ strategic shift toward business-to-business partnerships following the COVID-19 pandemic and plans to expand across East Africa.
Felex reflects on the personal values that have guided his success, including honesty, hard work, and a commitment to making a positive impact. He shares insights into family life, community projects focused on education and women’s health, and his hopes for the future of tourism in Uganda and the region.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Kazinga Tours operates both direct client packages and business-to-business destination management services, building strong partnerships with international agents.
- ✓ The company brands its ground handling to reflect the referring travel agents abroad, offering a seamless experience for clients arriving in Uganda.
- ✓ Misconceptions about Africa as a single entity often affect tourism; Felex explains the need to understand Uganda’s distinct safety and attractions separately from other regions.
- ✓ Cultural immersion is central to Kazinga Tours, including homestay experiences where visitors participate in daily village life and local customs.
- ✓ Felex’s personal story illustrates the power of opportunity and support, as well as the importance of resilience and honesty in building a successful business.
- ✓ Kazinga Tours plans to expand its destination management model to other East African countries, aiming to represent local operators authentically in global markets.
- ✓ The company emphasizes sustainability and community impact, with programs supporting education and menstrual health among girls in Uganda.
- ✓ Felex highlights the value of education and skill-building for youth, focusing on technical and vocational training to foster self-reliance.
- ✓ The guest shares insights on the challenges and realities of rural life in Uganda and the significance of connecting global travelers with local cultures.
- ✓ A strong network and genuine partnerships with international agents have been key to Kazinga Tours’ longevity and reputation.
What You’ll Find on Kazinga Tours
- ✓ Tailor-made safari and travel itineraries designed around clients’ interests, budgets, and schedules.
- ✓ Authentic cultural experiences, including community visits and homestays that offer hands-on learning about Ugandan life.
- ✓ Dedicated destination management services for international travel agents and tour operators to facilitate smooth ground operations.
- ✓ A focus on sustainability that respects local traditions, supports communities, and protects wildlife.
- ✓ Expert local guides and a team blending deep regional knowledge with a commitment to quality and client satisfaction.
- ✓ Initiatives that give back to local communities, including educational sponsorships and women’s health programs.
Learn more about Kazinga Tours Uganda and connect with Felex at:
https://www.kazingatours.com
The Twende Community Project supports education and community development in Uganda, including work with Kabaya Primary School and local communities around Lake Bunyonyi.
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.028)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today. And I’m also very excited we’ve got a fascinating guest for you today. We’ve got Felix Musunguzi. He’s the managing director of Kazinga Tours in Uganda. Felix, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Felex Musinguzi (00:20.719)
Thanks for putting me this podcast.
Jason Elkins (00:23.98)
Well, it’s it’s been so much fun. I have an opportunity to meet fascinating people like yourself and it’s you know, I travel a lot and this podcast is my opportunity just to have conversations and and meet new people. So so thank you so much for coming on. We spoke I guess it was just last week actually. And I under yeah, I understand you’re coming up on a big twenty year anniversary for your business. So I thought that would be fun to discuss.
Felex Musinguzi (00:42.456)
Yeah, last week, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (00:48.92)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (00:51.77)
Before we get into your background and your story, let’s give our listeners kind of an opportunity to understand what is Kazingatour’s Uganda and it’s n and it’s not just Uganda. You’re doing other stuff as well. But let’s give our listeners an idea of w what it is you do, and then we’ll discuss why it is you do those things and how you got to that point. So what is Kazinga Tour’s Uganda?
Felex Musinguzi (01:17.4)
Yeah, thank you very much. Kazinga 2 as Uganda is a destination management company. A tool operator operating in Uganda now for 20 years. And of course, we do customized packages for direct clients. And until recently, we started doing business to business as a destination management company. That was after COVID.
Jason Elkins (01:40.134)
Okay.
Let’s some of our I think a lot of our listeners know what a destination management company is. But for those that aren’t sure what that means, can you explain in your words what is a destination management company? What do you do differently as a destination management company as opposed to just someone that, you know, people contact and book a tour with?
Felex Musinguzi (02:06.186)
Destination Management Company is a label company.
that represent companies outside Uganda, but would like to bring clients for tourism purposes. So we’ll present their brand, 100%, and also add extra incentives for our partners. For example, if a company from America is trusting us with the clients and we are going to do the ground-handling work for them, we give them incentives like…
marketing materials. My business partner Vincent is a photographer for wildlife and every year he comes to Uganda to take pictures for wildlife, he takes videos and these are the incentives we give to our clients so that they are able to market and they bring clients to Uganda.
Jason Elkins (02:43.216)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (02:48.742)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (03:02.982)
Okay, perfect.
Felex Musinguzi (03:04.277)
Yeah, yeah, we also have a program we call ambassadors program. This is for people who have not been to Uganda, but they do business, they send clients. We teach them about Uganda as a destination. We show them national parks. We do a Zoom call and we do it with the entire team so that in case they get an inquiry, it is easier for them to answer questions before they even call me. Yeah, yeah,
Jason Elkins (03:28.283)
Got it.
So example of that could be a maybe a a travel planner or a travel agent or maybe a company in the US that offers places all around the world and they want to also offer Uganda, but they don’t have the connections in Uganda to put together a whole trip by themselves. So they go to somebody like you, you put it all together, customize it for their clients, and
It sounds like when when the clients show up in Uganda.
They understand maybe you even meet them with a sign or you have signs on your vehicles, or how how do the clients that are used to working with, let’s say, Mary in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to book their trip to Uganda, they get on the plane, they fly to Uganda, and then they meet your team. So do you show up as kind of like, hey, we’re we work with Mary, we’re here to pick you up and show you a good time, right?
Felex Musinguzi (04:30.049)
Yeah, so what I meant that we will present the company 100 % is that the black at the airport is reading the name of the agent in the US or in Canada or where.
Jason Elkins (04:41.786)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (04:43.989)
And the uniform that the driver is putting on is for the same company and the vehicle is branded as the company in America or Canada that is sending us clients because we build a partnership together, we are working together and we want to make sure that the clients feel comfortable when they arrive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (05:04.442)
Right.
Do you in your experience, people from maybe Europe or from the United States, are they more comfortable booking a trip to Uganda through somebody that maybe lives a little closer to where they live? Or what is your experience?
Felex Musinguzi (05:25.733)
The experience with American clients is that they prefer to the local agents, I mean the agents from their country. We’ve had a few bookings for direct clients who come from the US, but the questions are always very many. You know, they want to be sure that, you know, they trust you and you have to…
Jason Elkins (05:33.307)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (05:39.747)
Felex Musinguzi (05:45.867)
why they should book with you not another company. You have to prove that you have references from America, you know. So it goes around, but at the end of the day, I think the business to business is the way to go. You like, you you build partnerships and you make the work easy. And even after the test of COVID-19, know, people who had booked directly with local companies, I think some of them lost money. But those who had booked with the local
Jason Elkins (06:14.437)
Right.
Felex Musinguzi (06:15.831)
agent in their countries, it was easy for them to follow up with the money and all that. So we’ve been successful on that since COVID ended.
Jason Elkins (06:25.35)
Okay. That that makes a lot that makes a lot of sense. and also just things like time zone differences. you know, if you’ve never been to Africa and we should disc we’ll discuss this, but if you’ve never been to Africa, it can feel very overwhelming because it’s a big continent. we hear things about s one place in Africa and we think that it it’s the same everywhere in Africa and it’s not.
Felex Musinguzi (06:34.039)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (06:44.215)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (06:54.37)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (06:54.83)
So it it can be intimidating where if you’re working with somebody that’s based in the US that maybe has has vi you know, been on trips to Africa, understands Africa, it might be a little bit more I don’t know, feels a little bit more comfortable maybe to book with them. It’s it sounds like.
Felex Musinguzi (07:12.193)
Yeah, actually some people think Africa is one country, you know. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. It’s until they come here they start realizing that, you know, there are many countries within African continent. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (07:16.142)
Yeah, I know.
Jason Elkins (07:25.998)
Yes. Yep. Do do you I I think I know the answer to this question. I’ve been around for a while. I’ve been to Africa a couple of times. But when I say I’ve been to Africa, it doesn’t mean that I know Africa because like you said, it’s a big continent. You know, I’ve been to Namibia, Zambia, South Africa, but that’s there’s still so much more in Africa that I don’t know. So I guess my question is if something is happening
in West Africa, maybe in Ghana or wherever, Senegal. and people in the US, they just kind of tend to see, there’s something’s going on on in Africa, so maybe we shouldn’t go right now. Maybe we should wait another year or two. what would you like to share with our listeners about that, other than it’s a big country or a big continent? See, I almost a big continent with many countries.
Felex Musinguzi (08:01.271)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (08:25.869)
I’ll actually give one example. There’s Ebola outbreak in Congo. You must have heard about it. Congo is at the border. We border Congo. Also Rwanda borders Congo.
Jason Elkins (08:33.702)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (08:42.753)
But only one incident happened that one patient from Congo came to Uganda for medical attention and he died. And all the news, CNN, Al Jazeera are recording Uganda and Congo are having rising issues, mean, cases of Ebola. And everybody’s saying we are not coming to Uganda because we see everywhere in the news there is Ebola in Uganda and Congo. So we are to differentiate.
Jason Elkins (08:50.63)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (09:00.88)
Right.
Jason Elkins (09:09.732)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (09:12.727)
that Uganda is not Congo. And so in most cases we get contradictions about those things. But of late, of course, we have worked very hard to market Uganda as a destination. And the world is getting to know that it is indeed a part of Africa.
Jason Elkins (09:35.194)
Right. You know, it’s it’s interesting. That example was interesting because I was thinking if there was an outbreak in Mexico, for example, and they took somebody from Mexico to California for treatment and that person died in California.
you know, would would the news be talking about, there’s an outbreak in the United States. So now people say, Well, we better not go to New York because New York is in the United States and and somebody died in the United States from this outbreak in Mexico, people would be like, No, it’s that’s that’s totally different. But when it comes to Africa, we all just in our heads
Felex Musinguzi (10:06.241)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (10:13.154)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (10:19.66)
I and when I say we, I’m not talking about you. We that that aren’t as familiar with Africa tend to clump it all together in our head and there’s Ebola in Africa, so I better not go to South Africa, I better not go to Uganda, I better not go to Morocco. And it’s yeah, but people are scared. I get that. I’m not knocking it. Yeah. So okay, I think we I think we touched on that. That’s pretty good. Unless there’s something unless you want to expand.
Felex Musinguzi (10:22.657)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (10:45.867)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was, I think it just happened with a clear example, you know, and so I think, you know, for example, we have Africa tourism board that is trying to promote Africa as one destination, working with different countries.
Jason Elkins (11:11.184)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (11:11.425)
Then we have different, every country has got a prison board. So as Africa, of course, we are trying to make sure that Africa is known for good reasons. Because you’ve read the news every time they say, in Africa, there are diseases everywhere. There is this, there is war, there is everything. So in most cases, these things affect business. It goes into particular, yeah.
Jason Elkins (11:35.78)
Right.
Do you think do you think that having like the Africa you said it was the Africa Tourism Board? And they promote so they’re pro they’re trying to promote all of Africa. And I’m I’m curious though, if you spend a lot of time and money trying to promote all of Africa like it’s one place.
Felex Musinguzi (11:43.789)
Tourism board, yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re in place now.
Felex Musinguzi (11:49.741)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:01.786)
Does that sometimes cause problems? Because if you keep telling the US, people in the US or people in Europe, come to Africa, come to Africa, come to Africa, they kind of sometimes maybe think, okay, Africa is the destination. And when there’s a problem in Africa, all of Africa suffers. Do you think it would be better if just each country was promoting itself as
As a place to go as opposed to having people out there promoting Africa as a whole?
Felex Musinguzi (12:35.371)
Yeah, you see what happens, I don’t know which famous expo, is it New York Times Expo? Have you attended that expo in New York?
Jason Elkins (12:43.682)
I I I think it’s it used to be called the New York Times travel show, I think. I don’t know if it’s changed. It’s been a long time. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (12:49.153)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, New Times probably show. So such big expos, what happens is that they have like Africa, like Africa Hall, then they have Middle East, they have North America, they have, know. So what happens is that the different boards of different national countries
Jason Elkins (12:59.387)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (13:10.401)
They go to Africa board and each of them is presenting their country, the uniqueness of their country. But of course, the Africa Tourism Board coming in place was to make sure that people are collecting the different products so that we learn from each other.
Jason Elkins (13:31.962)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (13:31.981)
Because when you go to, for example, go to some West African countries like Gabon, know, when you go to Gabon, go to Central African Republic, you go to Deira Congo, you come to Uganda, and you go to Rwanda, Uganda, we all have different primates, especially the gorillas in Uganda, Rwanda.
then when you go to Gabon and the other and they have Lolland Gorillas you know even in Congo, part of the Lolland Gorillas so in most cases for the regional promotion and making sure that you know the people outside there have different alternatives you’ve been in Uganda today what happens next year or whatever you know so in the long run it helps you know to
Jason Elkins (14:04.923)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (14:19.984)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (14:22.465)
promote the whole continent. But all in all, different countries fighting to say, okay, my country is better, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (14:24.367)
Okay. No.
Jason Elkins (14:30.31)
We yeah, we tend to do that everywhere in the world, don’t we? I think something else I want to ask you about is the cultural differences in these countries, because I’m not sure that’s obvious to people that have not spent time in Africa. so I’d love to hear your take on the cultural differences between.
you know, people in Uganda or Zimbabwe or South Africa or Gabon. ‘Cause I think that there’s a lot more obviously there’s a lot in common, but I think that people that have never been to Africa just kinda think
Everybody in Africa kind of has the same culture and the same, you know, to you know, maybe we think, they all look alike, they all sound alike to us because we don’t understand the native languages. But as somebody that lives in Uganda, what would you like to tell people about cultural diversity? I guess maybe in Uganda, but also in all of Africa?
Felex Musinguzi (15:37.419)
Yeah, we have different cultural differences, course. For example, every country you go to, have different cultural beliefs. when you go to South Africa, you go to Zimbabwe, you go to these countries of Namibia, mean, no, Botswana, you come, we’re all Bantu. You know, if you search about Bantu people, the Bantu, is a linguistic group, the Bantu.
Jason Elkins (15:48.069)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (16:07.343)
speaking, we have very many things in common. When we are speaking, are words we hear and we understand what people are talking about. Then we are differentiated by different, the cuisine, you know, because every country you go to has a different cuisine, but like in Uganda here, we are so unique that, you know, we are so friendly. are the friendliest country in the world that you go on a
Jason Elkins (16:20.422)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (16:35.91)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (16:37.263)
treat and you meet people, you mingle with them immediately and they can welcome you and you know and of course for the last 20 years what Kazinga Tourism has been doing is not only to bring tourists to the national parks but to go deep into people’s lives.
Jason Elkins (16:54.49)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (16:54.581)
They go into communities with organized homestay experience. Like you come to Uganda, of course you have to see a lion, see the mountain gorillas. But in the middle or at the end, you should go and spend a night in a local home. You eat with local people, learn how to cook, go to the garden and get the food, cook it with a local person. like where I come from, men don’t go in the kitchen to cook. know, it is the responsibility.
Jason Elkins (17:09.35)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (17:24.615)
of the woman to go and cook and it is a sign of respect you know to say okay my husband is he’s coming from his come from work so I need to prepare food for him you know so if you come to our community now as a man you may help to maybe collect firewood and you bring home and then the wife
Jason Elkins (17:34.852)
Right, right.
Felex Musinguzi (17:45.191)
and yours will participate in cooking and maybe me and you will go to a trading center and have a beer with other men and you come back home for you know for a drink I mean for dinner and so it’s so like when you come to Uganda it is you really feel at home immediately you know yeah
Jason Elkins (17:48.666)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (17:54.694)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (18:05.86)
Yeah. Do do you
I imagine that people that come visit and they want to have an authentic experience, I’m sure they just e accept what you just said. And I’m wondering, have you had guests that get upset when you say, Okay, Mr and Mrs. Jones, you know, misses Jones, you can help my wife in the kitchen and mister Jones and I are gonna go drink a beer and and gamble on the street, do do s
Felex Musinguzi (18:32.4)
Ha ha ha.
Jason Elkins (18:40.25)
Do they sometimes get upset about that or do does everybody just kind of okay, this when when in Uganda do as the Ugandans?
Felex Musinguzi (18:46.317)
No, what happens, you know, we don’t just bring them into a community and say you are going to do this and all that. We give them a briefing before. We tell them what happens in their community. For example, in a local homestead, the children, before they go to school, for example, they have to wake up very early. They go to fetch water from the well. They bring it.
Jason Elkins (18:56.805)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (19:13.594)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (19:15.531)
They prepare something or they go and fetch firewood from the forest and come back and then shower and go to school. You know? Yeah, the same. Whereas like in America, you guys, I mean, also when you go to.
Jason Elkins (19:21.958)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (19:26.324)
wow. Okay. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (19:33.195)
like to Kampala, my capital city. Of course, I now take my children to school. drive them to school. But to me myself, you know, it was very tough, you know. So we have to give a briefing to the client so that they understand how it works. It is not a must that the woman must go and prepare whatever, but they can go and learn how things are done, you know, learn how to weave baskets, you know, what happens because you go
Jason Elkins (19:56.816)
Right.
Felex Musinguzi (20:03.119)
your craft shop you see a red basket but you don’t know how it is made. You go to a traditional restaurant you see the local food you don’t know how it is made. So going deep and understand and participate you know you make your hands dirty. Some of the things that have made us really do well you know in the last 20 years creating special experiences for clients.
Jason Elkins (20:08.73)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (20:30.416)
Do do you if you have a either a couple or just a man in a group that really likes to cook, maybe he’s a chef, maybe he just really likes to cook and he wants to learn how to make Ugandan food, is that an option?
Felex Musinguzi (20:45.485)
Yeah, yeah, it’s an option. Like we’ve done it. Like you have a big group, so people divide themselves in groups, so men and women can participate and do. But when you are deep in the village and they see a man trying to cook, they laugh at him. They think he’s crazy, you know, they think he’s crazy. this is how, you know, like African tradition has been built that, you
Jason Elkins (20:54.33)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (21:04.038)
Well,
Felex Musinguzi (21:15.293)
given respect but of course we are growing up we’ve known that you know a man must also be responsible you know you have to have responsibilities have you provided for the family have you you know all the things comes hand in hand you know
Jason Elkins (21:22.02)
Yeah. Yeah, there’s a there’s the other side to that.
Jason Elkins (21:32.964)
Yeah. What about children? I suspect you’ve had groups or clients that come with their children. and how do the children kind of participate in an activity like that? Do do the Ugandan children are they happy to have maybe kids from the US or kids from Europe playing with them, doing things with them, or is that
Felex Musinguzi (21:40.546)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (22:01.68)
Tell me a little bit about that.
Felex Musinguzi (22:04.231)
You see, there are some communities where children have never seen… In Uganda we call it Muzungu, where Muzungu is a white person. Muzungu. So they have never seen…
Jason Elkins (22:15.042)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (22:20.621)
a white man or white woman in the community. So if it happens, they are so excited and they will come them and what they want to do, especially the children who’ve done it, they want to the hair, they want to feel like this. You know, I remember growing up one time, it was a funny situation.
Jason Elkins (22:33.326)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (22:43.021)
This guy is cycling around, you know, so he passes through our community and I think he wanted to go to toilet. But then there is no toilet, you know. So what he does, he goes somewhere in the bush and he does his business.
Jason Elkins (22:58.576)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (23:01.421)
And when he left, the whole community went to see and they confirmed if he’s looking like theirs, like ours. I also went there to see, is it really like ours? It was something very interesting. until now, when I grew up, realized that, oh.
Jason Elkins (23:05.466)
Jason Elkins (23:09.478)
Well that yeah. Or is it white?
Felex Musinguzi (23:26.701)
these people, you know, we think they are coming from the Mars or somewhere, like, so coming here, so it was something like that. So the children like we’ve had, I work with a school from the UK and every other bring about 60 students, you know, around 13, 15 years. And what we do is we take them into a community and
Jason Elkins (23:30.468)
Yeah. huh.
Felex Musinguzi (23:53.495)
These guys have come from the UK and they live a luxury life. Everything is there. They have phones. They’re really well off. So the idea is to bring them into the community that is very poor, where children don’t wear shoes. They are not sure if they are going to have lunch. But they just go to school. we get a book and cut it in two so that you can use it many times.
Jason Elkins (24:07.462)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (24:19.271)
yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (24:19.861)
So we bring them there, they are integrated and they become friends so that by the time they leave, they go back to the UK. They have have a mindset change because, technology now is, you know, everywhere. And then they have also taught something to the village children. So they integrate. So this happens a lot that, you know, the children go there and they become friends and, you know, they mingle with the local people. And yeah.
Jason Elkins (24:48.198)
Do you think that children, like let’s say you said this group is like maybe 13 to 15 years old, do you do you sense that children connect quicker and are more open with each other than adults? Like if you brought a group of a similar size group of adults that are forty to fifty years old and put them with
Felex Musinguzi (24:56.235)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (25:16.568)
some of the older people in the community there in the village, will they connect as quickly as the kids or do do you notice that the kids connect quicker or what are w what do you see?
Felex Musinguzi (25:28.869)
It depends which community, but you know, there is always like what we call culture shock. You know, the culture shock, you know, like now these children, like what I’ve noticed, like when they reach into the village.
Jason Elkins (25:36.142)
Yes, right.
Felex Musinguzi (25:45.131)
that culture comes in and then they become shy and somehow, know, like, you know, most of the things are strange. There is no flashing toilet. They are using a pit latrine, you know. So for children, sometimes it is very complicated, but later when they, you know, they get used, you know, it is okay. But for adults, it becomes easy to, you know, to really mingle and…
Jason Elkins (25:56.24)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (26:04.72)
Take some mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (26:14.381)
connect with the local people. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (26:17.474)
Okay. That’s a little that’s a little different than I thought. So I’m happy I asked that question. But it makes sense because if you look at kids th thirteen to fifteen is a really difficult time for kids. To they have a hard time making friends in their own community sometimes. There’s a lot of a lot of yeah, i it can be a challenge. I’ve I have kids and I remember when I was that age, so
Felex Musinguzi (26:22.22)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (26:31.073)
Very difficult, yeah.
Jason Elkins (26:45.534)
I also remember when I was twelve, I went to Australia and the children in Australia were fascinated. We looked the same, but our accent, just the accent. They I remember these these girls. I was there with my brother, and I remember these girls that would they just wanted to hear us say their names. They were just like, please say ooh, say my name. Say my name. Because the accent
Felex Musinguzi (26:51.085)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (26:57.356)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (27:12.617)
I it was interesting.
Jason Elkins (27:14.584)
Yeah, ’cause the accent. So I can imagine you know, Uganda’s there’s obviously accent, language, so many cultural differences. all right. That’s that’s very cool. Now let’s talk about when you were thirteen. Let’s let’s go back into your story and figure out how the heck
Felex Musinguzi (27:32.109)
You know, remembering when you went, we gathered to check if it looks like ours, you know.
Jason Elkins (27:39.246)
Yeah, yeah. So I just I want to hear a little bit about your childhood and figure out kind of how you ended up doing what you’re doing. The last time we spoke, you told me a little bit about your history, but I want to dig into that. So tell us, I guess, about your family. What was it like growing up when you were, you know, 10, 12, 13, whatever, in your family?
Felex Musinguzi (28:03.819)
Yeah, actually, 10, 13, I was more doing things of an adult, you know. But I take you like, but you know, I’m the first born in my family. And we were at the end, we we were 11 brothers and sisters. So I was the first born.
Jason Elkins (28:14.009)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (28:29.882)
Wow. Wow. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (28:32.391)
The first child in the village, the local setup, course, by the time you are three years, you already start doing work because they have to send you pick this, you know. So I started very early when I was really growing up, but life was very complicated, you know, it was very complicated.
My family was the poorest in the community. If there is competition for poor people, we would take a medal. But my parents, my father was very strong. He had the belief that education is the key. I remember when I was growing up, he would tell me that if you don’t go to school, you’ll be the one working in cleaning the roads and whatever.
Jason Elkins (29:01.414)
Okay. Yeah, okay.
Jason Elkins (29:12.774)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (29:22.374)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (29:22.601)
And so if you get an opportunity to go to school, but he never had capacity to send me to school. So by then…
Jason Elkins (29:28.804)
And and I assume I assume he didn’t go to school, probably. Yeah. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (29:32.991)
No, no, no, no, he did not go to school. Yeah, so them growing up, the parents would give them land. When you are like 15, you get married or whatever. And but yeah, so so what happens now? And we had a problem with religion, you know, a Catholic.
and protestant majoring with a dominant religion. So I cannot go, I’m a Catholic, so I should not go to a protestant school. So I have to walk for like one hour to go to a Catholic school. No shoes, no packed lunch. I have to go and I only drink water from the well and then I come back, come back home. So.
Jason Elkins (30:01.316)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (30:19.386)
How how old were you when you started going to school?
Felex Musinguzi (30:24.263)
I think was five years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No sweat, nothing. And yeah, and of course, other children from the community are going, so I’m not going alone. So you’re going together and…
Jason Elkins (30:28.302)
So you’re walking an hour to school barefoot at five. Wow. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (30:46.661)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (30:48.575)
So I study and by then the government was paying for us. It was not expensive. So the parent would only provide food and buy books for the children. But you find when I’ve gone, I have no book. I have to write on the ground, you know, and I’m not the only one actually, you you have to write on the ground, you know. And so…
Jason Elkins (31:00.985)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (31:08.538)
Right. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (31:15.179)
that period passed and the first session of primary school I passed it. But you know you are going to school as you grow up you have no lunch. When time for lunch comes the people who came with packed lunch will go and for you to stay there looking. If you are lucky they will call you and say you can come and eat but if it happens every day then they start mocking you you know.
Jason Elkins (31:27.632)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (31:33.486)
Ooh, yeah. Okay.
Jason Elkins (31:43.77)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (31:44.557)
Yeah, so sometimes you rather say, okay, let me just stay there. Maybe I start playing whatever if you’re lucky, maybe they give you like a sweet potato. You put it in a in a polythene bag. You come with it and yeah, so maneuver. So.
Jason Elkins (32:01.734)
Do you do you remember ever just telling the other kids, I’m not hungry because you felt bad about the situation? So maybe you just like, no, I’m not hungry. I didn’t bring lunch because I’m not hungry. Would you say something like that or would they just know you were lying? Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (32:18.647)
They would know because they knew from a very poor family. So sometimes a good Samaritan would say, okay, please join us. They even would pull my hand and say, please come and eat. And even in a community, they would mock my father when they are in a training center. say, for you, you are poor.
Jason Elkins (32:22.886)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (32:42.522)
What did your yeah, what did your father do to support a family with eleven kids? What kind of work was he doing? Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (32:50.889)
nothing like he it was my mother who was doing all the work my father
My father sometimes he somehow became a cameraman at some stage and then didn’t work and then later He was trying to do some farming but because he didn’t have enough land. It was not possible So during my childhood age of from six going seven eight ten I would go with my mother to farm in people’s gardens So that they give us food, you know to take home and we eat with our siblings, you know, so my mother was
Jason Elkins (33:03.75)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (33:24.93)
Okay. Right. Right.
Felex Musinguzi (33:28.079)
most of the work with me because I was the first born. And so after the primary school because you have to go to secondary school.
Jason Elkins (33:30.222)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (33:36.494)
Well, let me ask you this before we before we get there. So you had eleven kids in your family. Did the other
Felex Musinguzi (33:39.521)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (33:43.693)
They kept every year my mother was producing. Every year. Yes, my dad was busy. So… Yes, yes, yes. But the thing is, what you must understand, that all eleven children were not together. Some died and all that. But every year, my mother’s job is to…
Jason Elkins (33:47.802)
Yeah. S so your dad was doing something. He was contributing something to the family. Okay. D
Felex Musinguzi (34:12.685)
go and farm in people’s gardens so that they give her food to feed the family. So as I was growing, I have to escort her so that if they were to give her one kilo of beans, then they’ll give her one and a half, you know? Something like that. And you have to farm the whole day, you know? So it was very tough. But then my father…
Jason Elkins (34:24.442)
Okay. Yep.
Jason Elkins (34:29.476)
Yeah. Okay.
I can’t I can imagine.
Felex Musinguzi (34:35.007)
So my father was always, he’s like, you have to study hard. He was really very tough on me. so after that level, I’m going to secondary school. There was a secondary school nearby and it was not expensive. So we start going, you have to walk for like one and a half hours. You go there.
Jason Elkins (34:47.654)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:59.098)
So how how old are you when you start secondary school?
Felex Musinguzi (35:03.181)
When I started Secondary School, was 11. I think I was 13. I was 13 when I went to Secondary School.
Jason Elkins (35:09.99)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (35:13.978)
How did I do want to ask you this though?
thirteen.
Jason Elkins (35:22.852)
Okay. I I have I have two questions before we start talking about that. I guess the first is you had what did the typical family did the other families have that many kids or did you have all like what do you think the average number of kids was was for a family in your community at that time? Eight. Okay, so yeah, so you were a your family was a little bit bigger than average. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (35:29.122)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (35:45.609)
eight eight yeah so it was it was general yeah so it was because you see there is no familiar planning and and so i mean what do you expect you know yeah yeah yeah and and so
Jason Elkins (35:56.486)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (36:01.25)
Yeah, yeah, no, I I I I get that. That that tends to happen.
Felex Musinguzi (36:08.205)
I start now the journey every day you have to go. If the school fees like $10, you must pay at least $2, know, at the start. sometimes my father is lucky he has the $2 to pay you go and then the community members actually, they were in a trading center and the one whose child was going to school with me, she told him that for you.
You just let your child escort our child our children because for you cannot manage to pay school fees You know you get it properly that Telling my father that for me I’m escorting the other children to school because he cannot afford to take a child in a secondary school You know
Jason Elkins (36:45.55)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (36:56.486)
Okay. I wanna I wanna und I wanna understand that, Felix. What I hear you saying is because you didn’t have money to pay for school, you your job was to escort and maybe take care of the other kids and then I I’m confused.
Felex Musinguzi (37:05.675)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (37:10.943)
No, no, no, no, no. So the community members were mocking my father, telling him, they’re laughing at him, that for you, cannot take a child in a secondary school. That what he can only do is to follow our children because for us, we’re able to pay. You know?
Jason Elkins (37:17.104)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (37:21.446)
okay.
Jason Elkins (37:26.936)
Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (37:27.789)
Yeah, so that’s how it was and so my father remained very strong. So from time to time, we would write letters to take the principal of the school and ask him if he can let me study and then he can pay slowly by slowly maybe, you know. And one year I was done and I was doing very well in class. I was very intelligent, you know, and…
Jason Elkins (37:52.388)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (37:54.253)
second year comes and then life is becoming very complicated. So I go there and then I cannot pay school fees. It is really tough.
Jason Elkins (38:06.116)
When you said it was two dollars, is it two dollars per month? Two dollars
Felex Musinguzi (38:09.485)
It was like $10, $10, it was like $30 per year.
Jason Elkins (38:15.864)
Okay, thirty dollars per year is what we’re talking about. That’s what it would and that was difficult. Okay. Yeah. And I’m curio I guess the other question I want to ask is because you were a firstborn, you were the first child in your family. In in Uganda, was that significant? Did you get special treatment? Was it did they make a a
Felex Musinguzi (38:17.739)
Yes, yes, yes, by that time. Yeah. Yes, it was very difficult. Yeah, you know.
Felex Musinguzi (38:29.579)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (38:39.674)
bigger effort to get you through school because you were the first and like maybe like number eleven in your family, did they have the same privileges or what what was that like being first born in the family?
Felex Musinguzi (38:53.261)
You see, when you’re the first born, know, like they say, first born, especially when you’re a boy in a community, you’re like a blessing, you know? And that’s why they even called me Mbusingusi, which means a winner. So it’s like my father was regretting that he is one because his first child is a boy, you know? Yeah. So, so he tried, he tried really, he tried. And so the second year, it was difficult.
Jason Elkins (39:01.775)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (39:12.76)
Okay. interesting. Yeah. Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (39:21.825)
That was in 1996, it was very difficult. So what happens now, I go back home, I cannot proceed. And my father is very stressed and he’s like, my son cannot proceed. And so what happened? Yeah.
Jason Elkins (39:36.346)
What Felix, if you don’t mind
Tell me a little bit more when you say the second year was difficult. What was what was going on in your world that second year that made it so difficult?
Felex Musinguzi (39:50.807)
Yeah, so my father could hardly raise the installment payments that I would take to school. And so he gave up and said, you know, I have tried my everything and yeah, they cannot allow you to go to school when I have not paid. You know, and so I go back and all my age mates, all my age mates, they are thinking of getting married. You know.
Jason Elkins (40:19.12)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (40:19.445)
And so that was also my journal, like, okay, maybe I should try to build a small hut, you know, the small round huts, and then maybe I look for a woman. So one day I clear the ground and then when my father comes in the evening, my mother tells him that your son is clearing the ground and he says he’s going to build and marry. My father called me.
Jason Elkins (40:28.847)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Jason Elkins (40:45.946)
Wow. At you and you were like fourteen probably. Yeah, okay.
Felex Musinguzi (40:49.729)
Yes, so my father calls me and he’s like, you know what? I’m gonna teach you a lesson. He told me to look for the… He told me to lie down that he’s going to beat me, you know? And he told me that I must cover the land. That ground I was clearing, I must cover it. I should never think of that, you know?
Jason Elkins (41:10.822)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (41:19.91)
Okay, because it what I hear is he didn’t want you to give up on school, but he had given up on paying for your school.
Felex Musinguzi (41:28.022)
Yeah.
Yeah, but he also did not want me to now start thinking of getting married, you know, at another age. Like, I should have been, yeah, you by then you don’t know the age very well, but I think I should have been like 15 or something, you know? So…
Jason Elkins (41:35.814)
Okay. Okay.
Jason Elkins (41:45.966)
Yeah. Well what it what did he want you to do? He didn’t want you to build a hut and get married. Okay. He didn’t want you to give up.
Felex Musinguzi (41:49.909)
He was hopeful. was hopeful that maybe he would get money and then I go back. He was hopeful. So at 16 years I escaped from home. I escaped from home. I have to look for survival because I can’t stay home. I’m not going to school.
Jason Elkins (41:59.097)
Okay. All right.
Jason Elkins (42:04.641)
okay.
Felex Musinguzi (42:12.065)
They are laughing at me, they are laughing at him, you know. So you are not a fit in the community. So what happened, I went to a place called Lake Binyoni, you know, look for a job and I landed on a campsite.
Jason Elkins (42:16.422)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (42:26.746)
How how far away was Lake I d pronounce it for me again, Lake?
Felex Musinguzi (42:30.765)
I worked, I left around 5am and I stole my mother’s mat. I carried it along and the idea was that I should sell it on the way and get some money to facilitate on meals and something. Yeah, I worked for like two hours. Yes, the mat, you know the mat? Yeah, the mat, you know the… Yes. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (42:36.389)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (42:47.75)
Okay, you s you stole y you stole I you stole her mat, like her what she would sleep on? Okay. Yeah.
Okay. All right. Okay. How did that work out?
Felex Musinguzi (43:00.501)
So I sold it a few cents and I was able to buy lunch on the way. So I was very lucky that I got my first job at a campsite. It was called the Karibuni Beach around Lake Bonyoni. And what made me get that job? So lucky, lucky enough.
Jason Elkins (43:08.358)
Okay? Wow.
Jason Elkins (43:18.094)
Yeah. How how did you get that how did you get that job? I there’s a story there.
Felex Musinguzi (43:26.753)
The first family that I went to, I was actually looking for a job to be a shamba, you know the shamba boys? Like people who like I come to your house and I have to do the cleaning, I have to, you know, to do all the dirty work at home, you know. If you have cows, I can take care of them, you know. I was looking for that kind of job. By luck, this family has a campsite at the lake and they are looking for a person who can speak English.
Jason Elkins (43:41.519)
Okay. All right. Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (43:55.902)
Who can who can go and work? So I say don’t speak very good English
Jason Elkins (43:56.262)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (43:59.621)
Why did why did they want s why did they want someone that spoke English?
Felex Musinguzi (44:04.461)
Because it was a campsite where tourists in the overland tracks would go for camping. So I get this job and I was so excited. The first time I reached there, every day the tourists are coming and I’m speaking English. I was doing the cleaning, I was doing the serving food, I was opening the gate, everything.
Jason Elkins (44:09.126)
For tourists. Okay. Okay. Got it. All right. Okay.
Jason Elkins (44:30.318)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (44:33.485)
I’m there, all smiley and all that. was very happy that my life has changed, my family’s life is gonna change. And so, this job is very interesting. after like six months, a young couple is called Abi and Miles. Abi was an American. She’s called Abi, Abigail Kaplan.
Jason Elkins (44:41.338)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (44:58.107)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (45:01.429)
and the guy was called Miles from Australia. They were young couple. So they are on an off-land truck and what happens is that they are wondering, I’m a young man, boy I’m speaking good English, other kids are going to school, me I’m not going to school. And they see I’m working very hard than any other worker so they pull me aside and they start asking me how come…
Jason Elkins (45:06.18)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (45:25.819)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (45:25.847)
How come you are here and others are in school? I said no, life became tough, I could not proceed. So I’m lucky to have put in this job and that’s why I’m here, I’m raising money. So maybe in future I can go back to school. So they say, okay, wow, that’s very interesting. So they asked me if they would sponsor me if I would go back to school. I said, yeah, that’s good news.
Jason Elkins (45:42.726)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (45:52.102)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (45:55.63)
That’s amazing news. That’s wonderful. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (45:55.757)
So they say, okay, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. they stop their trip. They never proceeded from anywhere. They said, we are going to stay here. We want to help you go to school. So Lake Wunyuan is very interesting. It has 29 islands.
And one of the islands has a secondary school, has a primary school, has a church, you know. So we went by, cannot ask for admission to be admitted in that secondary school. So I go there. They give it to, they give us the vacancy, they pay. And we go back now to my job to say, I’m saying bye bye. I have got an opportunity to go back to school. My employers were not happy about it.
Jason Elkins (46:41.83)
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (46:45.815)
They locked my luggage in the storage and said, you are not going anywhere. So this young couple, what they did was to say we are going to police to report. First of all, this is child labor. And secondly, this guy has an opportunity to go back to school. It was his dream. So that’s how they accepted and they went to school.
Jason Elkins (46:52.157)
wow.
Jason Elkins (47:00.614)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:06.054)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (47:12.301)
Now, the funny thing is that reaching that school, remember they have paid for one term. They have gone, we don’t have any contact. They are moving, you know, like these guys who move, they get a job somewhere. After working, they proceed like traveling. That’s what they were doing. Remember, I have lost the other job. I’m in school, they have paid for first term. The second term, I didn’t have money to pay.
Jason Elkins (47:18.757)
Night.
Jason Elkins (47:32.058)
Yeah, yep.
Jason Elkins (47:39.675)
Yeah. Well be before we get into that, the school was on an island. You said you so you said you left your okay, so you left your jent to the island and you stayed at the school. It was like a boarding school. Okay. What did do you remember what it cost for a term of a I assume room, a place of sleep, food and school?
Felex Musinguzi (47:44.673)
Yeah, on an island. Yeah. So it was you could sleep there.
Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (47:54.251)
Yeah, like when you’re second in school, Yes.
Felex Musinguzi (48:08.685)
Everything was $300 per year. Yes, $300. Yeah, so it is three times. So $100 for each time.
Jason Elkins (48:12.368)
Per year, okay. All right. Just to put it into perspective. Okay.
Jason Elkins (48:19.878)
so okay, I gotcha. So there’s three terms in a year and they paid for the first term. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (48:22.145)
Yeah, three times. Yeah, in some places they are in semesters, but for us it was just terms. Yeah, so what happened now, I have lost a job, these guys have gone, the school wants money for the second term. But because that island was very popular, it was very popular that it would host
Jason Elkins (48:31.35)
Okay. All right.
Jason Elkins (48:41.082)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (48:46.999)
Tourists people would go there they go in canoes and then they want to around you know there was also a leprosy colony like where all the lepers would be and they had some good history and all that it was a very big island so I start now thinking what am I going to do I cannot get my job back so what I did I just declared myself as a tour guide of the whole island you know you know you know
Jason Elkins (48:52.41)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (49:14.178)
Yep. Yeah, I love that.
Felex Musinguzi (49:15.757)
So I just created a job by myself. And, luckily enough, the first group that came was coming from the US. There were about 10 people. And so I see them coming in the canoe, I go and welcome them.
Jason Elkins (49:28.506)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (49:37.067)
I introduced them and I was trying to speak American accent, you know, when they told me we are from America, I hi, you know, I’m trying to speak American. And then all of them were laughing at me like, you guy, are funny. So this young man who was like one year older than me, maybe we were age mates called Kevin Schultz, he becomes my friend. He’s like, you know what?
Jason Elkins (49:41.152)
huh.
Jason Elkins (49:50.299)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (49:58.64)
Uh-huh.
Cool.
Felex Musinguzi (50:04.045)
You are very interesting guy and I told them why I’m doing that job while others are in class. He’s like, my mother is a teacher. I’m going to talk to her when I get back home. You know, I’m going to talk to her to see if she can sponsor you.
Jason Elkins (50:15.814)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:19.984)
Wow. And this and this was your very first, I guess we’re gonna call it a guide your first guide trip, right? Man, you’ve got a lot of luck going. Yeah, okay. Yeah. But you but and you know what is I love that you just took the initiative to just to just tell the universe I am a guide, you know, a as opposed to
Felex Musinguzi (50:24.447)
Yes, yes the first group you know you see how God does wonders you know yeah so
Felex Musinguzi (50:40.791)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (50:44.439)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (50:47.62)
Maybe someday I can go to school and become a guide. You’re just like, No, I am a guide. Yeah, I love that.
Felex Musinguzi (50:50.677)
No, no, no. I’m a tour guide because you remember, I was all these guys who would bring the tourists knew me. I was working at the other campsite at the mainland. Yeah. So these guys go, there is no communication. He was only sending a letter. So I only gave him the address of the school. So the first check they sent in through a post office, the one hundred dollars was
Jason Elkins (50:59.536)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (51:12.483)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (51:19.083)
was in an envelope, sent a school post box and they received the envelope, it was for me. They picked the money and kept quiet.
Jason Elkins (51:21.712)
huh. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (51:34.722)
jeez.
Felex Musinguzi (51:36.961)
You know? So me, I’m there at school, I’m playing with the children of the guy who, he was, I think, he was a vice, the deputy head teacher. The children of the guy tells me, we saw your letter at home. You know? Why didn’t you pick it? So we just went home, picked it, and a very good handwriting from girl Schultz.
Jason Elkins (51:48.336)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (51:54.778)
Yeah, wow.
Felex Musinguzi (52:04.789)
who accepted to be my sponsor, is saying that I’m gonna be your sponsor, I’ve taken an extra job. You know, she was a teacher in Illinois and so, an art teacher, so she got another job somewhere to raise money to pay for me. You know? You see what happened, the first money she sends is swindled, I can’t access it, so I went to town, there was a fax, you know.
Jason Elkins (52:07.504)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (52:19.536)
Wow Wow, yeah.
Jason Elkins (52:27.014)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (52:32.779)
But then fax and letters was the only thing of communication. So I write a letter, I tell her, you know, this and this happened. I didn’t get the money, but you know, here is the owner of this communication center. He has a fax. He also has a Forex Bureau. So you can talk to him. His contacts are these. He knows me. He’s going to help me make sure that when you send money, it is reached. It reaches.
Jason Elkins (52:34.958)
Yeah, yep. I remember those.
Jason Elkins (52:59.994)
Wow. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (53:01.493)
So we agree now, it’s like, okay, I’m going to send you first of all money to go and pay school fees, but also money that you’re going to open your own postal box number, PO box number, you know? So that when I send you a letter, it is going to come directly to you.
Jason Elkins (53:10.83)
that’s smart, yeah. huh. You don’t have to worry about somebody else Yeah, I get it. Yep, okay.
Felex Musinguzi (53:19.189)
Yes, so that’s how it came that I was owning the PO box at my early age and now she started sending me school fees. I studied hard, hard, hard, you know, and I was doing very well. I continued doing the guiding job at the island, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (53:30.992)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (53:40.623)
Uhhuh. And this is a woman this is a woman you never met. You met her son. You met her son who is one year older than you. And he went back and said, Mom, I met this guy named Felix in Ugandi. He’s really cool, but he needs he needs some money for school. Yeah. That’s pretty cool. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (53:44.885)
No, I never met. I never met. I met the son. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (53:54.893)
Yeah, he’s a funny guy. think he used all the sweet words, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So girl accepted to pay for me and that’s how the journey, my journey began. But now you remember I have my other siblings. My parents are not afford to pay for them, so I took them up.
Jason Elkins (54:16.016)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (54:19.785)
I’m studying, I’m doing some other jobs, so I have to pay school fees for them. And so, when I was going to high school, I started selling crayfish. know, the crayfish is like the robsters, you know. I started that business, you know, and I connected with volunteers who were in the neighborhood. I would take crayfish to them, and so I earned extra money.
Jason Elkins (54:23.12)
Mm-hmm.
Wow. Okay.
Jason Elkins (54:36.368)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (54:48.095)
So I met another friend of mine, okay, she was a volunteer called Anne Davenport from the UK. She helps me and she’s like, yeah, I’m gonna make a banner for you to market your business and all that. So we become friends and then she introduces me to her twin children, he had twins. And so when I was going to university, they raised, they said we’re going to support you.
Jason Elkins (54:48.24)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (55:16.287)
so that by the time you complete your university you have enough pounds to start your own business. So I said yes this is very good, this is very good news. Now I also continued selling my crayfish in Kampala and every weekend I would sell crayfish in Kampala.
Jason Elkins (55:25.84)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (55:39.866)
How how would you tell tell me more about that? What was that like? ‘Cause you were living on an island in the lake and you were
Felex Musinguzi (55:45.769)
After secondary school, I left the island and went to study. The high school was in town. So that’s when I started that business because I was so creative that I needed to start making some money.
Jason Elkins (55:50.362)
Okay.
Okay, all right.
Jason Elkins (56:00.487)
Okay. Were were you still interested in the guiding or did you give that up to sell okay.
Felex Musinguzi (56:05.665)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the guiding. Yeah, the guiding actually, the guiding was still interested, but I what I did was to to get other job to work at another campsite, you know, during holidays, during holidays. It was also at Lake Mwenoni. So every every holiday I’m working, but I’m also selling the crayfish. Yeah. So that’s an
Jason Elkins (56:20.601)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (56:28.678)
Okay. Right.
Felex Musinguzi (56:33.823)
has got me a deal to raise money. They are sending me money every month. It is meant for school fees, I mean for starting a business when I complete my studies. But remember I have my siblings who need to go to school. I touched that money and started paying school fees for my siblings. So I somehow disappointed them. You remember your, you know?
Jason Elkins (56:45.392)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (56:49.573)
Right.
Jason Elkins (56:54.746)
Yeah. Right?
Jason Elkins (56:59.142)
Okay. Well that’s that’s a tough spot to be in. It’s hard to hard to sit with money in your pocket when you’re when your siblings are need help. Yeah. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (57:03.649)
You know?
Felex Musinguzi (57:07.597)
You know, so I’m like, okay, but luckily I was able to also go ahead of course and start the business. But you know the idea, if you’re giving me money, I need to do it for the purpose you’ve given it to me because they did not want me to carry the responsibility of my father. They were like, no, the other one is his responsibility so he must take care.
But I understand the situation. To cut a story short, I go to university and I say I must go and study tourism. So this tourism I do it because this is I have come from. It is what connected me to people and I love it. I love meeting people. And I say I must start my own business. So when I completed the university, I was working and then later…
Jason Elkins (57:36.069)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (57:48.23)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (57:54.875)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (58:05.133)
I went back to the campsite at Lake Wuyoni to work and then after a short time I quit and I started working somewhere in the town where there was a local museum talking about the local people, about the culture of Bachiga people. I’m a Muchiga by tribe.
Jason Elkins (58:26.022)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (58:29.803)
So the museum was majorly to showcase the culture, how the old people used to live, how they would do this, how they do whatever. And the idea was that we could also integrate some travel business. There was a community project where volunteers were coming from Slovenia. The founder was a Slovenian guy called Miha.
Jason Elkins (58:37.349)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (58:58.565)
out the first trip we something happened and we are not in the same direction so I left then I started working in another job as a manager of the restaurant and an internet cafe you know and from there it’s when I started in my first company called Felix the cat you know you you had you know the cartoon called Felix the cat right
Jason Elkins (59:14.096)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (59:25.496)
I do, yeah, Felix the cat. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (59:27.051)
Yes, yes. So the reason why I started, I called my company Felix the Cat Africa Safaris was everywhere I introduced myself to Americans, they would say, are you Felix the Cat? You understand? So, so, so the idea was that if I start, if I name the company Felix the Cat,
Jason Elkins (59:35.91)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (59:42.982)
yeah, that that makes sense. I get that. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (59:54.138)
People will remember it. huh.
Felex Musinguzi (59:54.637)
going to be very popular, that was my idea and with that I can start getting business.
Jason Elkins (01:00:02.17)
Yeah, that’s smart. Yeah.
Well let me let me ask you this. When you started Felix the Cat, what what what did that look like when you say I started my first business? Because in a sense you started businesses but you started a business on the island when you decided I’m a tour guide and then you start and then you started your safari company, but at least you’d gone to school. You went to school and got a and studied in tourism.
Felex Musinguzi (01:00:16.929)
Yes.
Felex Musinguzi (01:00:23.549)
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:00:33.634)
So you start Felix the Cat. Did you go out and build a website? Did you go out and print brochures and signs? Or what it what did that mean when you say I started the business?
Felex Musinguzi (01:00:42.827)
Yeah, so it was very funny. I was targeting like volunteers who come in that region as my first customer. So I have like brochures. If they want to go for a day excursion, I’m there. If they want to go to see the gorillas, I am there.
Jason Elkins (01:00:49.976)
Okay. Do volunteers did they have money?
Jason Elkins (01:01:01.519)
Okay.
Okay. So the volunteers that were working there, they had some money. So that was you y they were able you were able to get some business. Okay. Very cool. All right.
Felex Musinguzi (01:01:08.973)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, in that region. yeah. We used to have many volunteers, Yes. You know, and I have brochures, I take them to hotels and all that. So people have to call me. And surprisingly, my first client was from the US. You know, she’s called Hero Doll. And so the husband…
Jason Elkins (01:01:24.55)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:01:29.604)
Yeah? Uh-huh.
Felex Musinguzi (01:01:35.659)
Henry was, the husband was visiting her. So here I says, you know, I’m gonna give you the business. You’re going to take us to a national park. We want to go here and here. I made the calculation and I hired a car. I got a driver because I didn’t know how to drive. So I went as a guide.
Jason Elkins (01:01:54.139)
Yeah All right. Yeah
Felex Musinguzi (01:01:56.127)
I went as a guide to the national park. had never been to, you know, but the driver, the driver knew where I was going. So I, but I was able to create an itinerary. costed it and they paid me. I paid everything. So they were my first customers, you know, and
Jason Elkins (01:02:04.229)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:02:09.125)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:12.678)
That’s so cool. Did did they know did they know they were your first customers? Okay. All right.
Felex Musinguzi (01:02:17.099)
Yes, I told them. Even up to now, celebrating 20 years, I said you should be here because you opened the doors for me. You know, but then after that, of course, business was not easy. You could not get business and all that. So now that’s why I went back to the tour guiding part. You know, and now apply. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:26.712)
Yeah, yeah. That’s so cool.
Jason Elkins (01:02:38.406)
Okay. Well let me ask you this. Let me ask you r this real quick. When you started this business, were you supposed to have a guide license? Did you have a guide license? Did they did the government care that you were promoting your tourism business and guiding in a national park, or was that okay?
Felex Musinguzi (01:02:58.273)
So this one, how it works is that, know, like I started business, you are my client, so I’ll take you to the national park and I pay entrance fees. And I pay for all the other activities so the government benefits in that line. But I did not have the license, I did not have, you know, but the driver was, I don’t, I think so, but.
Jason Elkins (01:03:08.431)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:03:13.656)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:03:17.178)
Were you supp were you supposed to? Were you supposed to have a license? We don’t need to talk about that. We don’t we don’t want to get you in trouble. Yeah. no, I know. It’s hard to it’s hard to start a business when you’ve got to pay licensing and yeah. Okay. So we won’t talk about that anymore.
Felex Musinguzi (01:03:22.901)
Yeah, but by then, yeah, we were supposed to have a license. I was supposed to pay tax. But, know, as a beginner, it was not possible. It was not possible to have. Yes.
Yes, so as luck comes in, I know a certain Dutch guy, runs a restaurant and his son had started a tour company and I tell him that I want to be a tour guide for the company and so they give me the opportunity. The first opportunity they gave me is when I met Vincent.
Jason Elkins (01:04:00.647)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:04:05.175)
Who is now Vincent van’t Hoff? Who is the co-founder with me? Who started the company with Kazinga Tours? So now, he did not know that it was my first trip, you know? But I had a driver, I am going as a tour guide, but I do not know. I mean, I know facts about the national park, but I don’t know, I’ve never been there. So…
Jason Elkins (01:04:05.785)
okay. Who’s now your business partner? Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:04:12.678)
All right.
Jason Elkins (01:04:16.229)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:04:31.844)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:04:33.261)
We go, I try to understand the interests of him and his wife. So we eat somewhere, we are supposed to have lunch and by then…
Jason Elkins (01:04:39.92)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:04:45.069)
There are many internet cafes in each town so you have no internet on the phone so you have to go to the internet cafe. So we stopped. He wanted to go to the internet cafe. I said I also want to go to the internet cafe because I need to see if I have got an email. So he’s trying to ask me what do you do.
Jason Elkins (01:04:51.344)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:05:01.157)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:05:05.271)
Why do you have to check Internet? I said no, no, no, they own of this company is my friend and He knows I have a small company. So I’m checking to see if I can I have an inquiry or something So we go and then he had told me he want to You if I see any nice sunset, I should tell him he told me I’m the driver but
Jason Elkins (01:05:16.996)
Right. Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:05:26.703)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:05:30.349)
Actually, I’m the one who was driving and the other guy was a guide but I see would later to be I was seen as more knowledgeable than the guide So immediately reached the National Park. He was busy having a drink. I saw a very nice sunset I went and called him I said there’s a very good sunset Please come and we go you take the photo on the river Nile, know very nice sunset so he went and took the picture and he told me
Jason Elkins (01:05:39.214)
Uh-huh. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:05:59.509)
You are the first person who I told in Africa that I like this and then immediately you are on point and you have showed it to me. So well done. So that’s how the connection started. You realize that I’m very focused. I know what I’m doing. I’m working very hard to achieve many things. And during the trip, because it was for three weeks,
Jason Elkins (01:06:10.182)
Nice. Yes. Okay. Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:06:21.286)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:06:25.085)
We agreed that I need to change the company name. Felix Tekati was funny. So I now had to change it later, but we selected many names, but we settled in on Kazinga Tours. Kazinga Tours because we have the second largest national park in Uganda called Queen Elizabeth.
Jason Elkins (01:06:41.798)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:06:48.646)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:06:49.365)
Formerly it was Kazinga National Park until the Queen visited and the Queen of England visited the area and they changed it into her name. So I was lucky to have that name, you know, for my company. So that is how Kazinga 2 has came into place, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:06:52.797)
okay.
Jason Elkins (01:07:00.688)
Wow.
All right.
Jason Elkins (01:07:08.474)
Were you were you happy about that? Like when when Vincent said you should change your name from Felix the Cat, did you agree with him originally or w did you did you kinda want to keep the name or what was that like?
Felex Musinguzi (01:07:13.708)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:07:22.093)
Now he explained to me the meaning like what you must do for you to have a successful business. always want to ask why this name and all that, you So he thought I needed to have a local name that had some influence and I dropped the other. And so I already knew why I should drop it.
Jason Elkins (01:07:44.465)
Okay. But it makes sense kind of if you’re if you want to make money and maybe sell to higher end tours and stuff like that, you might maybe want a respectful name that has some significance to the community. I love I love Felix the Cat, but yeah, I I get that. All right, okay, very cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:08:02.477)
Yeah, yeah, so the the idea we said we are going to start a company but looking at my history where I’ve come from let us create very good experiences to people who in turn go back and change communities. We have a special concept whereby the tourists will come and visit Uganda.
Jason Elkins (01:08:24.546)
Mm. Yes.
Felex Musinguzi (01:08:31.285)
not look at money but create experiences that will make them fall in love with Uganda and leave an impact in the community. So because of that approach, the two worlds of the Dutch and the Ugandan complementing each other, we are able to achieve that because education in Europe is more advanced. I was here with a lot of course excitement so we have to connect and you know…
Jason Elkins (01:08:39.568)
Nice. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:08:49.382)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:09:01.247)
And so because of that, we have been able to run the company for 20 years, which is a very big milestone. In 2006 is when we opened it. And then one year later is when we got our first agent from Germany called Romeo Kluger.
Jason Elkins (01:09:11.174)
Very cool. And we’re we’re recording this I was
Jason Elkins (01:09:26.533)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:09:28.941)
He’s like, ah, I’ve seen you guys have a good website, so I want to see if I can partner with you. So our first agent from Europe, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:09:29.488)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:09:38.596)
Did you how did you start the b I I guess this is a question I asked before about something else, but how did you invent to actually start the company? What was like what what happened that like, okay, now we’re in business, Kazinga, was it a website? Was it just a business agreement, a contract? How did you start the business?
Felex Musinguzi (01:09:59.157)
In the beginning actually, Wante told me, but I said, you have seen my journey. It will be good if we do this together because he had a very big job in Netherlands. You know, he was the manager, earning a lot of money and I don’t think he ever thought that he would really be an investor in Uganda.
So we started small, like I registered it, then he worked on the website, worked on the graphics, have a logo and all that, and then we started marketing. So in 2007, it was my first time to go in a plane and go to Europe, to go and attend an expo and present the company.
Jason Elkins (01:10:17.85)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:10:24.88)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:10:34.128)
Okay? Yeah.
What was that like?
What was that like?
Felex Musinguzi (01:10:43.595)
that being in a plan
Jason Elkins (01:10:46.266)
Well, just g you know, leaving Uganda, getting on a plane, going to Europe, like you’re you know, the African guy coming over from Africa to Europe, never never been out of Africa. What did you did you feel welcome? Was it you’re pretty you’re pretty courageous guy, so I’m assuming it wasn’t that big of a deal. Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:10:49.677)
Hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:11:06.477)
Yeah, very courageous. Everything was, I mean, I I don’t think really I was focusing even in selling the company. I was so excited seeing the tall buildings, seeing the trends, the whatever, like everything, know, like you can imagine I landed at Shipo Airport in the morning. It was, I think, 6.45 in the morning.
Jason Elkins (01:11:18.746)
Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:11:31.423)
and I just see the Burger King, which I never seen and I saw I had to order for a burger which was like, it was called the whooper and you know, it was my breakfast, you know, and yeah, so, so it was, it was very interesting to of course, I was so excited and yeah, so.
Jason Elkins (01:11:31.494)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:11:36.302)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:11:44.218)
Yeah. yeah, yeah. I that’s exciting. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:11:55.803)
Yeah. Did you feel like did you feel like, man, this is all working? Look at this. This is all working out ex in a way that you never you never imagined when you were fourteen and clearing the ground to build your hut.
Felex Musinguzi (01:12:12.437)
I kept believing, you know, I kept believing and my mother, she’s so prayerful, like she’s always praying for me. So I always believed, I kept believing, I knew that, you know, with hard work, honesty, know, sticking to the principle would really bring results.
Jason Elkins (01:12:14.82)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:12:33.914)
This is gonna maybe sound like a strange question to some people. Like it even sounds strange to me and I haven’t asked it yet. But do you ever reflect and think I’m happy that my dad laid me down on the ground and whooped my ass?
Felex Musinguzi (01:12:50.805)
Yes, and because of that, know, right now my father in the community has respect. He addresses very well. He’s very proud that his toughness, even when he had no capacity to pay for me, that he thought he would at some stage get money and take me back to school. So his dream also came
Jason Elkins (01:13:01.211)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (01:13:08.442)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:13:15.814)
Felex Musinguzi (01:13:16.461)
And so I had to now build for them a house. He’s always dressed in a suit. He drinks beer anytime he wants. But also because of that story whereby a girl had to pay for me and I had never seen her.
Jason Elkins (01:13:19.163)
I get it.
Jason Elkins (01:13:27.802)
Yeah. Wow.
Felex Musinguzi (01:13:39.31)
You know, until 2019 after 25 years that I had to go and meet physically, which was an emotional moment. You that story. Yeah, it was really, I mean, we’re all in tears and, you can imagine, you know, what $300 every year.
Jason Elkins (01:13:39.653)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:13:44.058)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:13:50.286)
Yeah, tell me about that.
Felex Musinguzi (01:14:02.53)
did to make sure that I go back to school, she paid for me at the university. And so that story has made impact in society because most of my clients, they read my story and they say we want to help another child somewhere. So we have very many children who have been sponsored because of the legacy that Gale started.
Jason Elkins (01:14:30.854)
Yeah. Yeah. Tell me tell me how tell me about how you met her, where you met her, like how did you end up meeting her?
Felex Musinguzi (01:14:31.657)
you know and I think
Felex Musinguzi (01:14:41.133)
No, no, no. You remember I told you that I met her son who had come on holiday and then… So 25 years later is when I had to now go with my wife so that we go and meet her physically. Yeah, so we went to Florida, Crystal River.
Jason Elkins (01:14:46.296)
Right. I Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:14:57.028)
Yeah, that’s what I wanted to hear is how did you and your wife where where did you meet her?
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:15:04.139)
Yeah, so we went, she came with her husband, they picked us at the airport. I gave a very big hug to her. I’ll send you that picture, when she was holding each other and were holding tears. Yeah, but for me, seeing her like physically was the biggest achievement.
Jason Elkins (01:15:15.397)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:15:21.53)
Yeah. Wow.
Jason Elkins (01:15:30.446)
Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:15:31.071)
Yeah, and so right now, just recently, I started a community project more in honouring artists, to end a community project in Uganda, and it’s majorly for supporting schools.
Supporting the school where I studied from and later I’ll support other schools, sponsoring children who are in a very bad shape that I was in during that time, who are in similar situations, supporting women who do not have like single women, supporting orphans who are, you know, the children who are there, they are having hopes, but they have no access to opportunities, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:16:14.48)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:16:19.643)
Tell me tell me the name of the project again. I wanna make sure that our listeners hear it correctly.
Felex Musinguzi (01:16:24.937)
It is called 20 Project Uganda. 20 Community Project.
Jason Elkins (01:16:33.124)
Wind.
Felex Musinguzi (01:16:34.313)
Twende means let’s go. Twende is like a Swahili word. Twende Community Project Uganda.
Jason Elkins (01:16:37.254)
twenty okay. Twenty community project. Okay. Felix, do me do me a favor, do me a favor later and send that to me. I’ll put that into the show notes so our listeners can go there and and get that as well. So all right, that’s very cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:16:49.677)
Fantastic, Yeah, yeah, I will do that. And you can imagine it just a story. know, some of my clients have told me that, you know, this money that girl sacrificed to get an extra job to pay for you is just one dinner in a nice restaurant in the US. You know, and she sacrificed, she had all the energy and said, let me help this guy because
Jason Elkins (01:17:11.204)
Yeah. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:17:18.925)
But you look at the journey and you’re like, these miracles, everything was happening and you see now we have a very successful safari company in Uganda. We have touched many people’s lives. So we see how you touch one and then the whole line is this.
Jason Elkins (01:17:43.623)
But I what I you know, and what I love about your story is there’s there’s a couple elements. One is the people, just the people that you were fortunate enough to connect with, obviously is a huge part of it. But then there’s there’s the other side of it because here’s the thing. Every person that you’ve mentioned that that helped you move forward, those same people have met a lot of other people that
Felex Musinguzi (01:17:52.311)
Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:18:09.85)
Did not take advantage of those opportunities and did not follow through. So my point is you’ve got meeting the right people, but also your ability maybe to seize the opportunity, maybe even to maybe even to ask for it in a sense. Maybe you didn’t say straight out, hey, will you give me money? But you shared your story and you made it clear and they saw something in you that maybe they didn’t see in other people. So it’s it’s a combination of
Felex Musinguzi (01:18:22.487)
Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (01:18:30.348)
Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (01:18:36.589)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:18:40.082)
you supporting yourself in a sense, but them supporting you, them seeing all that, is there anything else that you think you would like if I asked you what Felix, you’ve been it sounds like your life has been so easy, and I know it’s not, but you just seem like you’re very lucky. You just keep these things keep happening for you. But if I asked you what’s the secret to your success, what would you say?
Felex Musinguzi (01:19:08.235)
Yeah, first of all, I’m a very honest guy. know, that, you know, and I came up from a society like where my mother told me that, you know, always be on the right side, you know, let people judge you, but for you, know who you are, you know, and
Jason Elkins (01:19:14.338)
Okay. That’s good. That’s a that helps.
Felex Musinguzi (01:19:33.653)
I have been, I think of course many people have taken advantage of me because I’m a good person. I worked very hard to give everything to other people before I think about myself. And because I started something, the business I love.
You know, I’m doing something that I love and we agreed with Vincent that, let’s not look at money. Let’s create a difference. Let’s have very special experiences and these experience that are going to change lives. They’re going to come back to you and later we’ll have capacity to be happy. You know, and here we are. 20 years later and, and, and, know, I told you about Romeo, Romeo Kluger.
Jason Elkins (01:20:10.598)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:20:21.307)
Yes.
Felex Musinguzi (01:20:21.677)
was our first operator outside Uganda to trust us with his clients.
There was no way we could appreciate him. We said later, we are going to put you also in the company. We appreciate you for having trusted us. So like I mentioned earlier, we are not looking at the money, but you are building networks. And we believe that together we work harder, we achieve together, and we make an impact in the community.
Jason Elkins (01:20:35.951)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:20:44.09)
Yes. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:20:53.485)
I can tell you that all this is on the ground. We are very happy that everything is going very well.
Jason Elkins (01:21:02.65)
What’s what do you have planned for the next twenty years?
Felex Musinguzi (01:21:06.029)
Yeah, so we started before we used to have the combination of B2C, B2B and whatever. But when we were hit by COVID-19, we realized that the trend has changed, has shifted.
So that’s when we set up the five-year plan with a strategy of B2B whereby we represent companies and we have now covered three years and it’s going very well representing companies. So far we’re the best destination management company in Uganda and because we are flexible we understand the business, how it works, how to help our agents to be competitive in their markets. It has become easier that
Jason Elkins (01:21:37.478)
Okay. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:21:51.131)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:21:53.407)
Some even tell others to connect with us and work with them. what we want to do is that after the five-year strategy, we want to carry the same strategy. take it to…
either to Kenya or Tanzania. start, one of the countries will start partnering with the local person, use the same strategy, aiming at making sure that the agents we working with will represent them 100 % in East Africa, while working with local people who are born in that country. And we hope the next 20 years will have achieved that in all the East African countries. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:22:16.037)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:22:26.19)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:22:34.64)
Nice. I love that. Do you have do you have somebody well let’s we talked a lot about your childhood, what it was like growing up. tell me about Well, I I don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m just gonna ask Well you said did you say you and your wife went to Florida? So there’s a family there. So tell us so tell me a little bit about your you finally got married and you didn’t live in a mu in a hut.
Felex Musinguzi (01:22:53.899)
Yes, yes.
Jason Elkins (01:23:01.978)
You didn’t build a hat, it sounds like. So tell me story about you know, tell me what’s going on in your family with your wife. Do you have kids? Is are they interested in the work you do?
Felex Musinguzi (01:23:11.969)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I married actually, you see, after school, I did not want to waste time. So I thought it was easier that I could have a family. So I married, I never planned, I never went for courtship, I never did anything. Just, okay, I need to have a woman. So I just met random woman and we, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:23:21.99)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:23:25.702)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (01:23:35.898)
Gosh, I hope she’s not listening to this. A r a random woman, okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:23:37.525)
No, no, no, no, no, what I’m saying, like what happened, like, no, no, no, so we, we, we got married, but for sure we never had like a connection. didn’t have things like the process of really choosing a partner. I think he’s supposed to be really take time, study each other and whatever. So my first marriage was not successful. So I had to, you know,
Jason Elkins (01:24:02.706)
Okay, I got it.
Felex Musinguzi (01:24:03.457)
Yeah, to put it aside until I later met a young lady, Maria, who was young but very intelligent. And she found me when I was in a very complicated situation. You know, think I can sum it up that I was disorganized. like you have opportunities around you, but you are working, you you are not…
organized and whatever and so she She opened the most of the things to me like, know, you have you’re very intelligent guy you have this you have this talent you have these you know, like revealing trying to to expose what you are, you know, you know, can be having a Person that you don’t know, you know, so me I was just going to work going back home and that’s it
Jason Elkins (01:24:58.406)
Right. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:25:02.285)
But the connection was fantastic that we connected well and, you know, we have three children with her and we were really doing very well. She’s now working in the company. Yeah, she’s a tour consultant. She works, represents many agents, tour operators, you know, works on them and yeah, so.
Jason Elkins (01:25:19.493)
cool. All right.
Jason Elkins (01:25:30.056)
very cool. Very cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:25:30.893)
Yeah, so I’m a very happy man. I’m taken care of like an African man. You know? I do not go to the kitchen, you know?
Jason Elkins (01:25:38.726)
I love it. Hey, do you well and and she works as a tour consultant for the company, so yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:25:49.261)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know, like, yeah, I know that I force her to do, but she takes good care of me, you know, she… Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:25:56.623)
Yeah, yeah. That’s very cool. Do you guys do you guys talk about business at home or are you able to you do? Okay. All right. Cause some people are like, well, if you work with your partner, then you should not talk about business at home. I was just curious. But I think tourism I don’t know, tourism can be stressful for sure, as you know. Yeah, yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:26:03.179)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:26:16.589)
Yeah, I know. thing is, actually, what is funny is that our office is in the same compound with our house.
Jason Elkins (01:26:26.018)
Okay. All right. yeah, that’s
Felex Musinguzi (01:26:27.085)
So we leave the house, we go to office where the other workers come and join us and we are together. Then we go back home, which is a few meters, just a few steps. And of course you have to be to understand the situation, otherwise it can be boring, but you you go through it sometimes, take a holiday, you go somewhere, you know, and yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:26:32.837)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (01:26:53.924)
Yeah. How old are th how old are your kids?
Felex Musinguzi (01:26:55.853)
My first child is 23 years. Yeah, he’s an artist. He does the drawing with a pencil. He can draw you within a short time and then frame you the drawing. Yeah, so he’s now doing a course in animation and visual effects.
Jason Elkins (01:26:58.907)
wow. Okay. All right.
Jason Elkins (01:27:06.064)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (01:27:13.028)
No cool.
Jason Elkins (01:27:21.012)
okay. That’s cool. Was was he ever when growing up was he ’cause if he’s twenty three, your business is twenty years old. has he did he get involved in the business at all? Was that something he was interested in or he just had no d no desire to do what you’re doing?
Felex Musinguzi (01:27:28.481)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:27:33.397)
No, not yet.
Not yet. He started his coffee company. He’s in two coffee. He started a coffee company. So I have my other… The second one is a daughter who is 20 years. The other one is 18. But I have a son called Kevin who is a footballer. He plays soccer. He’s… Kevin. Kevin, yeah. I connected it…
Jason Elkins (01:27:43.215)
okay.
Jason Elkins (01:28:01.051)
You said his name wait, you said his name is Kevin. Is there a is there a connection to another
Felex Musinguzi (01:28:07.053)
I connected it, it was more of appreciating Kevin having connected me to the mother. Yes, I named him in a way because what can I give Kevin?
Jason Elkins (01:28:13.412)
Yeah, I I got that. I recognize you have two Kevins in your life.
Jason Elkins (01:28:22.862)
Yeah. Well, that’s a huge huge tribute. So all right. Very cool.
Felex Musinguzi (01:28:26.485)
Yeah, so it’s a very huge tribute and so Kevin is a soccer player. He’s making 13 years Yeah, he’s doing very well. He’s very good and I think He’ll end up in Europe or in America. He’ll really want to play for professional soccer
Jason Elkins (01:28:44.772)
Well, and is he he’s your youngest?
Felex Musinguzi (01:28:47.309)
No, no, the youngest is six years. He’s born. My youngest is six years, No, no, Kevin is 12 years.
Jason Elkins (01:28:50.72)
okay. okay. So Kevin is okay, so Kevin is the eighteen year old. We gotta get all this n I’m totally lost.
Okay. I’m counting how many kids do you have? okay, I gotcha. I heard three, but I understand three with Maria or something like that. Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:29:05.389)
So I have seven children. I have seven children. Yeah. I was trying to make… So I have seven children in total and… Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:29:20.742)
All right. Do any of are any of them excited about tourism? That’s the question I’m trying to get to.
Felex Musinguzi (01:29:24.301)
I am weird to find out because one of the girls likes IT related things and likes like cosmetic things. Then the other girl just completed the course in the cabin crew. She wants to work in the air hostess.
Jason Elkins (01:29:37.894)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:29:48.931)
yeah, okay. All right. Well that yeah, there’s a cadravel connection. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:29:52.961)
Kevin is in soccer, he wants to be a businessman, he hasn’t picked interest. Then the daughter, another daughter, she wants to be a doctor, you know, so maybe at some stage I’ll get one who is interested.
Jason Elkins (01:30:08.902)
But okay. Would you would you like one or more of them to be interested? ‘Cause sometimes people are like, I don’t want my kids doing what I do. I want them to go do their own thing. And other people are like, I want my kids to be involved and carry on the company. Do you have what is your philosophy or your your approach?
Felex Musinguzi (01:30:26.897)
The philosophy is that I want the children to independently think what they want to do and open the door if they feel they are interested in tourism that I can mentor them into being entrepreneurs in tourism. It is always good when people are not forced to say, you must come and work with me.
Jason Elkins (01:30:35.365)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:30:51.866)
Yeah, yeah. I I I I agree with you completely. I get that. one thing I know I wanna touch on and then I’ll ask you what else we should cover, but we talked a little bit about your community project, and helping other
Felex Musinguzi (01:31:03.573)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:31:06.84)
Other kids that are in, you know, young kids that are in similar situations to what you were when you were younger to make sure that they have an opportunity to go to school. we’re gonna have a link in the show notes so people can learn more about that. But just in general, what do you want people in the US or Europe or other parts of Africa, anybody listening to this, what do you how would you describe the process? Like what would you say? Hey, you can help a kid go to school with
Felex Musinguzi (01:31:15.019)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:31:35.076)
by doing this, how easy is it? What is involved? What should people know about what it w what it would take to help?
Felex Musinguzi (01:31:43.497)
Yeah, so far what we’re doing is that we always take kids who have completed primary school and they are going to secondary school because most of them end up getting married or whatever and so we say let’s look for those children who have completed the primary seven and they have performed well or even if they didn’t perform well but they are from very complicated families.
Jason Elkins (01:32:12.389)
Right.
Felex Musinguzi (01:32:12.613)
difficult family so we have partnership with a few schools where the children go and after the secondary school we always opt to take them to to do the technical education so that they learn a skill you know that this school this skill can help them to be self-employed or they can change a life or whatever and then
Jason Elkins (01:32:18.918)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:32:29.414)
Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:32:40.685)
because it is not good to now take the children to school, then they go to university, they are doing an arts course where they cannot have a skill. So we try to help them, then we help them to create jobs for themselves or they can use their hand to earn a living.
Jason Elkins (01:32:51.226)
Right. Yes. Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:33:00.058)
Somebody somebody listening to this wants me to ask, is this boys and girls? Yes, okay. I just wanted to Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:33:04.973)
Both. We do not discriminate. So we have at least 10 people normally choose. You know, we do not, when people say, I want a child to…
be sponsored then we ask community members when they have leadership they recommend a child who should be sponsored because we can put names of the children on the website or whatever but I don’t think it’s a good idea it’s better yeah it is better that you know there is a person who is willing to change the life of a child most of them will say I want to say to I want to help a girl another will say I want to help a boy you know and then
Jason Elkins (01:33:33.008)
I agree.
Felex Musinguzi (01:33:45.673)
send them like two names then they select you because always have a story with each child and then they and we are now we we got a sponsorship from a group of women in Germany they have sponsored a project of menstrual health like to help young girls learn about menstruation teach them how to make the reusable pads
Jason Elkins (01:33:50.854)
Okay. All right.
Jason Elkins (01:34:06.64)
Sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Felex Musinguzi (01:34:13.581)
So it is going to start next week. We already got the funds, $1,700. It is going to train 250 girls.
Jason Elkins (01:34:13.934)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:34:26.576)
Hundred and se no, one thousand seven hundred dollars to train two hundred and fifty girls.
Felex Musinguzi (01:34:30.365)
Yes, yes and they are going each of them is going to have is going to learn how to make a reusable pad because we have to buy materials and this
Jason Elkins (01:34:38.927)
Okay. Let’s
Felex Musinguzi (01:34:42.473)
So they learn how to make reusable pads so that they are confident because most girls get, they drop out of school because they have no pad. They have to wrap themselves with some funny cloth or something. So we’re trying to build confidence, especially in the girls so that they are comfortable in the class. They have a reusable pad, they can use it, they wash it. So we want to make sure that they have at least two.
Jason Elkins (01:34:57.797)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:35:12.109)
Dupatt. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:35:13.68)
Okay. It’s it’s a it’s a topic that a lot of people outside well in diff in some places aren’t aware of. They don’t realize that’s an issue. And I remember when I was visiting Africa at one point, I was in it’s probably Zambia and they and that topic came up there as well and they explained how these young girls, you know, they get to twelve, thirteen years old, they either just quit going to school completely or they they miss a whole week of school every month.
Felex Musinguzi (01:35:31.223)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:35:42.638)
because of these issues and it’s it’s hard I think it’s hard for some people to get their head around, well, why do they need to learn how to make pads? Why can’t we just make sure they have pads? Like it seems easier to just make so help me understand that.
Felex Musinguzi (01:35:56.801)
You see now…
So you see the normal pads, they are very expensive first of all. And you just use them once and throw away. So we are looking at sustainability. There are now materials that you can use. We teach them how to make the pads themselves and then they can use them over and over. After they have used them, they can wash them.
Jason Elkins (01:36:05.584)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:36:09.71)
Right? And they’re expensive, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:36:15.375)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:36:22.213)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:36:25.635)
Right.
Because because if you say to a family, Okay, here’s a hundred pads and then when you run out you’re gonna need to go find more, it it’s expensive. So it gets to the point where it’s like, Well
Felex Musinguzi (01:36:40.119)
Very expensive. I mean, they are struggling to afford a meal and then you are talking about the price. You know? You know? Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:36:45.316)
That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. When you have to decide between, okay, are we gonna make sure our daughter has or our five daughters have pads to go to school or are we gonna feed the family, the choice is gonna be, you know what, maybe they just need to stay home because we need to feed them is more important than sending them to school.
Felex Musinguzi (01:36:57.535)
Yep. Yep.
Felex Musinguzi (01:37:06.273)
They cannot afford to buy parts. Even the mothers cannot afford. Many mothers in the villages cannot afford. They don’t. So the idea is that we won’t start with the children, but after we want to extend, if we get other funds, it’s to extend to the mothers.
Jason Elkins (01:37:13.39)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s
Jason Elkins (01:37:18.692)
Yeah, that’s yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:37:24.496)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:37:30.224)
Sure. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:37:30.861)
There is a motivation of course now if a child is having a pad and the mother does not have a pad, you know, you know, yeah, so we want to train the mothers and You know when a woman is confident, you know, everything is perfect Well, we already have
Jason Elkins (01:37:37.594)
Yeah. Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:37:47.866)
Yes. i life is better for everybody. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:37:51.029)
Yes, we already have the concept what will be done. First of all, it is not about having a part, but also teaching them about the whole process. How should they be clean and what they should do and things like that. They teach them about other pregnancies and, know, it is a complete story. So they’ll be there for four days and it’s going to make a very big impact. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:38:16.804)
I love I love that. I love that. So you’re doing some you’re doing some really cool things. I knew you were before we chatted and after this conversation, it’s like I I was able to connect all the dots to kind of why you’re doing this stuff. your your why is really big and I I really, really enjoy that. we discussed a lot of things and I do want to ask you this before we wrap up. What did I forget to ask you or what do you wish that I’d asked you, or just what else do you want to share with our listeners before we wrap up?
Felex Musinguzi (01:38:48.225)
I think I didn’t hear you well.
Jason Elkins (01:38:50.65)
Yeah, I was just saying, is there you know, what else would you like to share with our listeners before we wrap up the conversation?
Felex Musinguzi (01:38:56.523)
Yeah, the internet, I think the internet is not good.
Jason Elkins (01:39:00.888)
Okay, hang on a second. Edit, edit, edit, edit. Okay. So we’re just gonna pick up, I’ll go back and cut that part out. So Felix, what we’ve we’ve discussed quite a few things and I’m curious, what did we forget what did I forget to ask you or what would you like to share with our audience before we wrap up?
Felex Musinguzi (01:39:02.157)
Now I can’t hear you.
Felex Musinguzi (01:39:19.629)
First of all, I have to congratulate you that
Jason Elkins (01:39:24.208)
Hold hold on hold on one second. We’ll let that finish.
Jason Elkins (01:39:30.266)
Since I gotta edit anyway, we might as well let that finish. You think it’s done?
Felex Musinguzi (01:39:35.629)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:39:36.518)
Okay. All right. So Felix, we discussed a bunch of things. I’m curious, what did I forget to ask you or what do you wish I would have asked you? so you can share with our audience before we wrap up.
Felex Musinguzi (01:39:48.109)
First of all, I think we’ve covered most of the things, but going back to the business side, currently I have not gotten an opportunity to connect with American Air Tour operators who sell trips in Africa. We sell trips to Africa and…
Jason Elkins (01:40:12.165)
Okay.
Felex Musinguzi (01:40:15.541)
So I I think it would be how I can connect to that portfolio of American operators, but also inviting whoever is listening that, know, Uganda is a very beautiful country. It is the power of Africa. We have the more than half.
of the total population of the gorillas. We have the biggest population of the mountain gorillas. We have the chimpanzees. We have the big five. We have the source of the river Nile. If you’ve heard of the river Nile, very interesting locations. It is the best place where you can go with your children. It’s the best place where you can come. You spend two weeks. You do the hikes. You do safari.
Jason Elkins (01:40:56.708)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:41:13.409)
You know, you see everything. And so I think it would be nice even to invite you to come to Uganda, you know, so that you you see what I’m telling you, you see it on the ground and then you can go back and extend the story back home. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:41:21.594)
I would love that. Yeah. Absolutely. Yep.
Jason Elkins (01:41:31.706)
Yes. Very, very cool. I know we’ve got people listening to this right now that if Uganda’s been on their radar, but maybe they haven’t, whether it’s somebody wanting to go travel to visit there or a tour operator that that sees an opportunity and their offerings. And that’s that’s why we do this. We do this to have conversations with folks like yourself so so we can make connections. So we can make you know, ’cause we’ve talked a lot about connections and the importance of that. So very, very, very cool. Felix, thank you so much.
Felex Musinguzi (01:41:51.159)
Yeah. Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:42:00.671)
Yeah, you’re welcome. I’m very happy that you hosted me because I have to congratulate you also to say to have the courage of telling stories, sharing the experiences to your followers. think it’s something very, very, very nice. I think you are changing lives and you don’t know.
Jason Elkins (01:42:22.668)
I thank you. I hope so. But it’s
Felex Musinguzi (01:42:25.099)
Yeah, because I’ve just shared in my story how my life changed and I know there are very many people who going to listen to this story and they say we want to change our lives somewhere.
Jason Elkins (01:42:30.373)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:42:35.662)
Yeah. Well I on either side, Felix, because they can hear your story and if they’re struggling, if they’re trying to figure out their situation, they’ll find inspiration from it. And if they’re on the other side where they want to support somebody or and they’re able to support somebody else to make it through that time, it’s great. We’ve hit kind of both sides of that. And that’s that’s why these conversations are so special. So thank you.
Felex Musinguzi (01:43:00.813)
Yeah, and maybe the request is if you can reach out to girl and give my appreciation to her, you know, because I have said thank you very much many times. I have said what can I give you? know, so reaching out to her and say I met your son. I had him on the podcast and he talked about you.
and he told how you changed his life and how your support has changed his community. I think it will be something very instrumental, the biggest gift I can ever give her, which I think, yeah, as we celebrate 20 years of Kazinga tours, that you say this is your gift, you know?
Jason Elkins (01:43:34.342)
I love it.
Jason Elkins (01:43:47.655)
Very cool. Wow. What a what a I’m not sure I’ve had somebody tribute a potty a podcast episode before. So that’s awesome. I will I will do that. Felix, when we’re done, you send me her contact details, you connect me with her, and I’ll reach out and I will make sure that she sees this conversation. I’m sure I I’m sure you will as well. But it’s it’s great. It’s it’s we’re we’re changing lives and thank you for coming on and sharing your story about how Gail helped you change your life and
Felex Musinguzi (01:43:54.477)
Thank you.
Jason Elkins (01:44:15.172)
You’re inspiring people. Good good job, man. Good job. All right. Let’s let’s stay in touch and do this again.
Felex Musinguzi (01:44:17.185)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Yeah, and probably I host you here soon in Uganda.
Jason Elkins (01:44:25.834)
I man, I hope so. It’s the more I’ve learned about Uganda, the more intrigued I am by it. And it’s yeah, absolutely. So when I’m when I swing by that neck of the woods, I’ll definitely definitely reach out.
Felex Musinguzi (01:44:38.347)
Yeah, so if you get, if you have connections to, if you know some, some two operators in America or other connections, who would like to connect, who would like to connect to, to get a reliable agency? Because like I told you with my connection in Europe and, and Uganda, we, we, we are the, the best and we have
Jason Elkins (01:44:46.662)
Well hopefully they’re listening. Yeah, hopefully.
Jason Elkins (01:44:56.261)
Yeah.
Felex Musinguzi (01:45:05.495)
really been there. 20 years is not easy. Yeah, it would be nice to get those connections. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:45:09.67)
It’s not easy at all. That’s a
Well, and that’s that’s what another part of the show is, you know, it’s Big World Made Small. It’s to create connections to make this big world feel smaller by creating those connections. And and I guess, you know, while we’re at it, might as well mention that w something new that we’ve done recently over on bigworld made small dot com is set up kind of an AI assisted network and community of folks like like Felix and and and others from around the world, including agents and operators in the US.
Felex Musinguzi (01:45:18.837)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:45:43.346)
So exactly what you’re discussing. and that whole goal was to create better connections between all the folks that we’ve had on the show. So Felix, I’m gonna suggest you do it and anybody that’s listening to go over, you can look up Felix on there. just look up Uganda, he’s gonna pop up and you can, you know, watch this conversation obviously or you know, connect with him right there through the website. So
Felix, thank you so much. Appreciate and of course Felix’s Felix’s website will be right in the show notes as well. That’s the most important part. So Felix, thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you again soon. Have a great day.
Felex Musinguzi (01:46:07.446)
Here we go.
Felex Musinguzi (01:46:15.563)
All
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