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Episode #197: Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar

Founder & CEO

The Folk Tales, India

Episode #197: Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar
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Guest Bio

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar is the Founder and CEO of The Folk Tales, a company dedicated to crafting conscious travel experiences across India. With more than a decade of experience, he has focused on responsible tourism that fosters deep cultural connections and supports local communities. Recognized as part of the FORTTUNA Global 100 class of 2026 and awarded the Best Cultural Immersion Operator by the Indian Responsible Tourism Awards, Gaurav combines his interests in travel writing, languages, and photography to enrich the journeys he creates. His work extends beyond business to promote storytelling-centered sustainable tourism that empowers grassroots communities and contributes to meaningful livelihoods.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Gaurav about the importance of responsible travel and how storytelling can deepen a traveler’s connection to India’s diverse cultures. They explore how The Folk Tales curates bespoke experiences that go beyond surface-level tourism to engage with heritage and local communities authentically.

Gaurav shares insights into the challenges and opportunities of sustainable tourism in India, emphasizing the role of grassroots empowerment and cultural preservation. The conversation also touches on how emerging founders like himself are shaping the future of tourism with a focus on ethics and impact.

Listeners gain a clearer understanding of how travel can be a force for good when it is thoughtfully designed and grounded in genuine cultural exchange.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Responsible travel requires a deep understanding of local cultures and traditions to create meaningful experiences.
  • ✓ Storytelling is a powerful tool to connect travelers with the heritage and people of a destination.
  • ✓ Empowering grassroots communities helps ensure tourism benefits those directly involved and preserves cultural integrity.
  • ✓ Tailor-made journeys can offer more authentic and immersive experiences than conventional tours.
  • ✓ Sustainable tourism initiatives contribute to creating long-term livelihoods rather than short-term profit.
  • ✓ Recognition like the Indian Responsible Tourism Awards highlights operators committed to cultural immersion and impact.
  • ✓ Founders in the sustainable tourism space face unique challenges but also have significant opportunities to innovate.
  • ✓ Integrating interests such as travel writing and photography enriches the storytelling aspect of travel offerings.
  • ✓ The future of tourism in India depends on balancing growth with respect for local communities and environments.
  • ✓ Participation in global networks like FORTTUNA provides valuable support and visibility for responsible tourism leaders.

What You’ll Find on The Folk Tales

  • ✓ Customized travel itineraries that emphasize cultural immersion and authentic local experiences.
  • ✓ A focus on sustainable and responsible tourism practices that benefit grassroots communities.
  • ✓ Storytelling-driven journeys that connect travelers with India’s rich heritage and traditions.
  • ✓ Recognition for excellence in cultural immersion through industry awards.
  • ✓ Expertise in creating meaningful, tailor-made holidays that go beyond typical tourist routes.
  • ✓ Commitment to supporting livelihoods through ethical and conscious travel design.

Learn more about The Folk Tales, India and connect with Gaurav at:

https://www.thefolktales.com/

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Podcast Transcript

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Jason (00:01.25)
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today, and I’m also very excited to have our guest today. We’ve got Gaurav here. He is the founder and CEO of the Folktales in India. Gaurav, welcome to the show. Happy to see you.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (00:21.246)
Thank you, Jason. Thank you for inviting me and I’m happy to be on this podcast with you. Excited to start.

Jason (00:27.628)
Yeah, we’ve we’ve had a few conversations, a few more conversations than I typically have with a guest before the call. but just really fascinated by your story and excited to get in and share that with our audience. Before we get into the story about kind of how you got from where you were to where you are now, let’s just just touch on a couple things. First of all, where are you physically located? Where do you live?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (00:52.884)
Well I I split my time between Delhi and the Himalayas. So my work and my office and everything is in Delhi. But personally I like to spend more time in the mountains. and right now also I’m in the Himalayas about three hundred and fifty kilometers north of Delhi. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (01:11.562)
So how do you when you’re going back and forth, I’m just curious, do you typically fly? Because I understand that that the train ride can be quite an endeavor. I don’t know though. So you tell me, how do you get back and forth between the two?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:22.739)
Yeah.

Now so train rides are not really an endeavor because I used to do that a lot a couple of years ago. so I have been on and off in the Himalayas for the last fourteen years. And I used to hang get a train before. Now I have a car, so I just drive between Delhi and the Himalayas, and it takes about eight hours. But trains are quite nice, a lot of people use trains from here, including the tourists. Yeah.

Jason (01:49.528)
Okay. ‘Cause I’m sure you have a lot of guests that arrive in Delhi and then end up transferring or moving up towards the Himalayas and we’ll get into that more. I I was just kinda curious about the geography.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (02:02.192)
Yes, so for entire northern India and Western India, Delhi is the place where people usually come. Even for central India, Delhi is the place. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (02:10.445)
Alright, very cool. We’re gonna I know we’re gonna get into that more. but let’s also give our listeners a quick touch on what the heck is the folktales. two parts. One is how did you come up with the name? But maybe we start with what is it you do, and then maybe it’ll be obvious kind of where the name came from, but I’d love to dig into that.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (02:20.263)
Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (02:30.824)
Yeah. So the folktales is in the simple words we are a tour operator, but we came up with the name the folktales because we wanted each and ex each and every experience to be based on the stories, not just statistics. Because just think about it, like when we were children, we remember stories, we don’t remember what we read in our school books. So

When somebody goes on a tour with us, whether it’s a one-day tour or a 21-day tour, it doesn’t matter. It’s always through the stories of the place and the people. Yeah. So me including, like I also do the tour sometimes. My I have a team who does the tours, and our you know, basic ideologies that has to be through stories with the communities and as much community interaction as possible so that you know you’re taking back memories that are personal for you. Yeah.

So there are two ways to do a tour. One is you look at a monument, you take photos and you just exit. Okay. Nothing against that. There are many places that you have where you have to do that. but as much as possible, we try to engage the people with the community and the story so that it becomes a personal experience that they can go and you know share with others as well. Yeah. And remember perhaps for a very long time.

Jason (03:49.868)
Right. I this is probably a horrible example, but as someone who knows very little about India, I’m just trying to get my head around a kind of an example of this would be you can I you can go to the Taj Mahal and you can see it. You can take some pictures and so you can put on Instagram and all that. Or you can maybe do some sort of Taj Mahal experience that really digs into the story about why it was built and what was going on in the area at the time and

And connect it more to a story. That’s is that that’s the only example I can come up with. Is that is that kind of am I hearing it right?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (04:22.44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, I could give you a very nice example here if you would like me to. Yeah. So no no, I’m I’m giving you an example of Taj Mahal only because it’s very famous and almost everybody in the world knows about it. So let me pick up the example of Taj Mahal only, but I will tell you how it becomes like a story that you remember, not just a monument. So usually what we do is we just don’t don’t do only the Taj Mahal, we do Taj Mahal.

Jason (04:30.573)
Please please do better than the Taj Bahal. I’m sure it’s an amazing place, but

Jason (04:40.759)
They can relate, sure.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (04:55.316)
From two two or three different directions. So one is you go into the monument, you do a typical tour, that’s it. The second is you go to the villages around the Taj Mahil and you see the Taj Mahil from other angles, like from you know, maybe through a cycling tour or through a walking tour, while you are having tea with you know some family in a village, and there is Taj Mahil right in front of you. Yeah? And then you’re not just

Jason (05:19.925)
Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (05:21.416)
Buying a ticket and going inside, you’re looking at Tajmehel like the way it is for the locals. Yeah. That is another way view of looking at the monument. Then Tajmehel uses some you know a very interesting art form called the inlay art. Yeah, where you use precious stones and you you know put them inside the marble, like you cut it in the form of leaves, flowers, whatever, and you put it inside the marble. and that brings about a design, yeah.

In Italian, it’s called a pietra dura, pietra dura. And this art form also actually exists in Italy. That’s why I gave this example to you. Okay, so the other way of knowing the monument much more deeper is to actually visit the artisans who are still doing this work of in layout in Agra and participate in a small workshop where you can learn how to do it yourself. Okay. So

Jason (06:01.677)
Okay, sure.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (06:20.05)
So basically you’re you’re visiting a monument, taking a ticket and just going inside and doing a tour. You are visiting various families around the Taj Mahal, looking at it from various angles, from a farm, from a village, and then you are spending time with some artisans learning the art. That gives a very holistic experience of a monument, which is just, you know, run-of-the-mill place, to say so. Yeah?

Jason (06:38.805)
Mm-hmm. So it turns out that is a really good example. and I appreciate that. That was you because I think anybody listening to this can kind of get the difference. There’s going to there’s going to see the Taj Mahal and then there’s going to experience that area, the Taj Mahal, the art the artisans and all that. So okay. That’s very, very cool. Do you and you mentioned obviously you do more things than just the Taj Mahal. But since we’re on the to on the topic of Taj Mahal,

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (06:44.392)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (07:08.595)
Is that a place that just everybody goes on their maybe not their first trip to India, but is that that’s the place, right? So I’m sure even your guests that want that full on experience, it’s it’s important to them to see the Taj Mahal. I I guess I should just ask you, what percentage of your clients like insist that they see the Taj Mahal on their trip to India?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (07:30.63)
Well, even if a person wants to go to let’s say the Himalayas, right, and they want to spend most of the time in the Himalayas, they still request for a one day visit to Taj Mahal from Delhi. Yeah? Even if they go for a wildlife safari in the central India, they still prefer to take a day trip to Taj Mahal. It’s like that. Yeah?

Jason (07:41.857)
Yeah, that’s kinda what I figured. Yeah.

Jason (07:51.15)
Okay. I I kind of figured that that was the case. So it sounds like it’s just part of the itinerary that that’s built in. I gotta jump on the wildlife safari thing because help our listeners kind of visualize what a wildlife safari you said in central India?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (08:11.432)
Central India, wildlife safaris are there in eastern, northeastern India, they are there in northern India as well, southern India as well, they’re everywhere. Like India is full of national parks. and there yeah. depends on whichever area you go, and if you have some interest in wildlife, there is an opportunity to let’s say see the tigers, lions, elephants, rhinoceros, and various like if you have interest in birds, you could go for a birding tour. there are snow leopards.

There are snow leopards in the Himalayas, and so there are people who exclusively come for snow leopard photography. so yeah.

Jason (08:48.149)
Very cool. And it’s and let’s discuss the safari part a little bit more because I’m aware you’ve got elephants, you’ve got tigers, you’ve got other things, I think, but for our listeners that are really into wildlife that for some reason India hasn’t been on their radar yet, or maybe it is on their radar, give them an idea.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (08:56.818)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (09:09.259)
Let’s talk a little bit more about a a an Indian safari. What does that typically look like and if you can contrast that to maybe like an African safari because I think people are more familiar with that. what should our listeners know about that?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (09:23.924)
Well I have personally never been to Africa so I cannot draw a comparison but I can say like I can give you a view of Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So an Indian safari could be done in a very touristy trail also, which a lot of people end up doing. And it could be done in a very unique way also. Like a touristy trail would be you get up into get into a Jeep or you get into a like a bus which is all which already has ten to fifteen other people.

Jason (09:28.885)
No, but I bet you’ve seen I bet you’ve seen a lot of videos and photos just like all of us, right? Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (09:54.483)
And you go on a route which is already set for everyone. A unique way of doing a safari, let’s say in Western India, a tiger safari, is to take your own Jeep, and in that Jeep, that will be only personalized for you. There will be a naturalist with you. And you not only just see the tiger, you after you see the safari, after you have done several safaris in the same national park, you also meet the community that is

I should say the conservationists of tigers. Okay. So this community that we think is a very important part, and we should not really ignore them as part of responsible tourism, they were poachers at one point. They they used to kill tigers for a living. Now they are conservationists, so they are protecting the tigers for a living. Why? Because now they are making like things like handicrafts, textiles with tiger motifs all over them.

So now their livelihood has shifted from poaching to making something, and that is sold to the tourists. So this is a story that you know gets along very well with the Safari. And of course, it’s not just about visiting the community, it’s about introduced, getting yourself introduced to an ex poacher, getting yourself introduced to the story of that poaching community. And also, if you like to get something hands-on, you can do things like block printing, you know, take a little block printing workshop.

I see that you know our groups really like that and take back a souvenir something from there. So that could be a very meaningful safari in my my you know experience. Yeah.

Jason (11:28.205)
Okay.

Jason (11:31.873)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. D is it couple things. The com you mentioned that they used to be poachers. I don’t know a lot about the history of tiger conservation or poaching, but what was the value in poaching a tiger? Was it the skins or was it why w what was the why were they poaching them?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (11:56.103)
Well, it was definitely the skin because in the you know, before at least before India got independence a lot of kingdoms in India they hunting was for was for them a leisure activity. So, you know, if you have a tiger skin in your palace it would be considered like you are somebody who have achieved s something big in your life. Yeah. So but then tiger was it was banned.

Jason (12:17.367)
Somebody special, yeah. All right. And when they switched over to

Mm-hmm. So when they banned it and they switched over to more of the con well first of all, are there still poachers? Is that still a problem?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (12:38.568)
Well, I don’t think so that there are poachers in the tiger area, but yes, there are some poachers and some poaching still goes on in the northeastern India, which is the national parks known for rhinoceros. Okay. Although because of the horn of the rhinoceros, it is it is in a lot of demand in China. So the rhinoceros conservation has been very exceptional in India.

In the last several decades, they have done really good work. And the population of rhinoceros has increased. And this place called the Kaziranga National Park, it is also there, like you can read about it online, the amount of work they have done in terms of rehabilitating the poachers and also kind of creating such strict rules that if you’re caught poaching, you could be actually shot, you know, directly without even asking. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (13:32.846)
Okay. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, yeah. okay. I in my mind and actually you and I had a conversation a week or two ago and you’d mentioned something about

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (13:36.412)
But there is still some poaching happening in that area. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (13:51.732)
traveling around y where you live at night. And I don’t know if you were making a joke, but you said something about getting eaten. And and I don’t know if that was a joke or if that was serious. Like so I guess the question is are tigers something that people like I don’t know. I guess the question is, is it something that you worry about when you’re

navigating around or tiger is something that people just generally are scared of and how does that influence conservation efforts?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (14:24.18)
So when I said about being eaten that was like a joke. But Yeah, yeah, yeah. But definitely you could get okay, let me tell you let me create a proper context so that you know people don’t feel like I am in a dangerous place or something. so I I am in the Himalayas, okay? And usually the life in the Himalayas is that people wake up very early in the morning, like six o’clock, five o’clock, they wake up and they start their morning work.

Jason (14:28.883)
Okay. I I I wasn’t sure because but okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (14:53.822)
Yeah, very early. And as soon as the sun is down, they start to like wind down. Okay. They are not there is no nightlife over here. So people tend to close their shops, they go inside their houses, and then that’s their family time having dinner and everything, and then go to sleep pretty early. Normally nobody is you you won’t find people walking around in the Himalayas in the jungles at 8 o’clock or 9 o’clock in the night. Because it’s the time for the animals to come out.

Okay, and it’s not about being feeling afraid from the animals. Animals are not in our place. We are in the animals region. Okay?

Yeah. So yes, I have seen leopards in my area. Okay, and you know usually they don’t just attack people out of the blue. It’s only if you are you know they have gone crazy or if you have done something like if you are trying to hit the animal, then they would attack you back. But there is a very common misunderstanding that if you see a tiger it will just attack you. It it doesn’t happen like that. If an animal has a stomach full, it will not attack you.

Jason (16:06.685)
Alright, I g I got that. And do I mean that’s your your perspective and your perspective obviously is more

Jason (21:29.131)
Hey there. I w I was hearing you just fine. I know it sounds like my screen froze on your end, but I was hearing you just fine and then all of a sudden you disappeared, so I wasn’t sure. All right.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (21:37.188)
Yeah, I could also hear you, but your screen was frozen, so I was not sure. Yeah.

Jason (21:42.016)
Okay. I yeah, yeah, I apologize. I should make it clear. As long as we’re communicating, stay in the room. If if don’t worry about the screen freeze up because it’s gonna upload in the background and that’s that’s normal. So so anyway, so we’re good there. So all right. So so go Gordov, tell me about because I know in some places the reason that animals are threatened is because people are afraid of them. So an example might be the western United States, where people would

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (21:48.837)
Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (21:54.148)
Right, right. Okay, all right. Right.

Jason (22:12.907)
Bears, kill grizzly bears, or they would kill wolves. Both because maybe they felt that they were dangerous, but also that the wolves, for example, would eat, you know the thing.

The idea was that they would chase the livestock, kill the livestock, the cows, the stuff like that. So in my mind, not knowing much about India, I can imagine that that might be a similar scenario with things like lions and leopards. So I’m curious, is that the case? and I mean, is are there some people in India that would just prefer to have all all of the tigers gone because they feel threatened by them or they worry about their livestock?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (22:51.888)
No, so I’ll create a different context for you here. Animals, especially even the wild animals in India, whether it’s about tigers or leopards or any other wild animal, even the lion, they also have a spiritual and a religious significance. So if you go to, let’s say, a temple in the Himalayas, you will see statues of a tiger there. OK, so killing a tiger is something that is considered

Like people would not just do that because the tiger was threatening them because a tiger is supposed to if you see a tiger in the hills People say that you know You have good luck like that. So So it is not just an enemy it’s a part of your Culture it’s part. It’s a part of your religion as well. It’s a bit’s there in the temple as well however, sometimes it happens that you know a few tigers or or a leopard might

Jason (23:31.405)
Okay. All right.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (23:48.621)
so to say go crazy. In that case, what people would not just kill the tiger directly, they would call the authorities, they would come and they would try to catch it first. They would not just shoot the tiger. They will catch it, they will take it wherever they want to take it and then try to see what’s going on. At the end of the day, there are very few cases these days where the authorities have decided, okay, let’s just kill it straightforward.

Jason (23:51.277)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (24:18.551)
In the last several years, have seen or I have heard in the news only one such incident where the authority has decided that, OK, we need to kill it and that’s all we can do.

Jason (24:31.079)
that. you said the word lions and I was like, I don’t maybe I’m missing something. What do you mean by lion in reference to India?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (24:45.871)
Well, a lion is a lion. I mean…

Jason (24:48.789)
Okay, I’ll I’ll b I’ll be vulnerable. I had no idea there were lions in India.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (24:51.589)
Okay.

There are lines in Western India. Yeah.

Jason (24:56.931)
wow, okay. I was I was almost afraid to ask because I feel like that’s something should know, but okay. Huh. I wonder how

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (25:01.935)
Yeah.

Well, I guess there is only one thing in this world that’s called a lion. There are no two things. So that thing that you know is there in India. OK.

Jason (25:09.537)
Well well well hold hold on now, in my in my own defense, we have we have a th we have a thing in the US we call a mountain lion, which is more like a puma or so it’s it’s it’s a different animal. But I know what you when you say lion, that was I was thinking like an Afri like a lion I would think of in Africa. I just honestly I didn’t know. I I I maybe I’m the only one that didn’t know that, but I suspect some of our listeners might not.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (25:24.74)
Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (25:31.077)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (25:35.977)
Jason (25:37.16)
that’s interesting. Okay. All right. So let’s let’s get back to it’s it sounds like obviously part of the the experiences you offer to your clients would be the wildlife safaris, you’ve got the Himala Himalayan stuff. Give us kind of a a rundown, and I know you like to tie it all in with stories and community and I and I get that, but give us a rundown of kind of the the

The majority of the stuff you do. Obviously a lot of it’s in the Himalayas. Does that mean trekking, climbing, just what what other kind of stuff?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (26:11.483)
So we are not an adventure tour operator. We do not do adventure sports. We do not have expertise of that. Although we do some bit of trekking in the Himalayas. And when I say trekking, it is medium grade trekking. We don’t do that high-altitude trekking where you need that mountaineering gear. We don’t do that kind of thing. So we are a cultural travel company. Cultural plus soft adventure.

So we are currently doing a trekking trip going on in Ladakh. And these people are going to walk from several villages, like one village to the other. And they will be camping overnight. But I would grade this as a medium-grade trek. So they would have porters, chefs, cooks with them who will make simple food for them overnight. They will have some horses to carry the luggage.

But that doesn’t mean the entire trip isn’t just about trekking. Trekking forms just four days or five days of the whole tour. The other part of the tour is also has a very heavy element of cultural tourism. So when I say cultural tourism, it means that you engage with the community as much as possible. How can you do that? One way is to stay in accommodations that are run by the community. OK, so this could be home stays.

And when I say homestays, homestays are not always very basic. There are luxury homestays as well, which are run by communities. I’m saying this because a lot of times when I speak to people, think that, OK, homestay, it has to be a very basic accommodation. It doesn’t have to be like that.

That is one way. The other way is to participate in the activities with the community. Like activities like what? Let’s say they go to Himalayas and they want to learn some local Himalayan cuisine. So rather than going and tasting it in a restaurant, why not have it, you know, make it with the community and have it with them as a dinner meal? Okay. Let’s say one community has expertise in Himalayan pottery, which is a little difficult, difference, different.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (28:27.343)
than the pottery in other parts of India, the way it is done. So, you know, rather than just going to a shop and buying a pot, why not spend time with a family on a one-hour workshop, learn how to do that pottery and take back a souvenir? Yeah. You don’t become an expert in one hour, but it gives you an experience of how it happens and then buy it directly from the artisan, you know.

Jason (28:52.641)
Gaurav, you you mentioned

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (28:57.691)
Yeah.

Jason (29:01.773)
And I I’ve made the argument a few times on this show is like, well, geez, it like to me going to India doing a a four-day track or not even the track, but just going and learning how to make cuisine in the Himalayas with the community or or the pottery or how to do the the inlay stuff that you discussed when we were talking about the Tajpal, to me that’s a friggin’ adventure. And I think it is for a lot of a lot of people. So I just I just wanted to I’m like, I think you’re an adventure.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (29:06.157)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (29:21.711)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I will correct myself there because I understand your point of view. A lot of times when we do a trip of these offbeat places, we call it an adventure tour only because there is a difference between traveling somewhere in Europe versus traveling in India. So if you are traveling, let’s say I have been to Europe, so I have seen some tours there. You have a very, you know,

Jason (29:31.567)
But yeah, but any

Jason (29:45.718)
Uh-huh.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (29:59.355)
everything runs extremely smoothly. You reach from one point to the other, nothing happens in between. But let’s say you’re traveling in India and Ladakh. If you’re going from one place to the other, there might be some group of cows in the middle of the road and you have to navigate through them. You might need to climb a little bit of a hill to reach a home stay, or you might need to wait, somebody gets late because…

Jason (30:07.478)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (30:28.659)
family that you need to do pottery with. They got stuck in traffic somewhere and they are 30 minutes late. So, you know, this is the adventure that we are. I always say, you you are on an adventure. Even if you are on a luxury trip, you are still on an adventure. And you should, you should take it as a part of India experience. You know, that’s how things are.

Jason (30:33.421)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason (30:42.903)
Yeah.

Jason (30:48.439)
Yeah. Because I I would suggest that probably ninety nine percent of people in the US, if they had the opportunity and some desire to travel, there’s some people that just don’t like to do stuff. But the ones that do like to do stuff, if they had the opportunity to go to India and spend a week or two

doing things other than the standard Taj Mahal tour, it’s probably gonna be the biggest adventure of their life. I mean, you know, that’s to go to India and do all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (31:16.388)
Actually, Yeah, I was thinking of adventure from only one perspective. But now that I hear you, I think you’re very right, because it’s a completely different cultural change. So it is an adventure, definitely, even if you’re going to a city like Jaipur. It’s an adventure, because the streets of Jaipur are different from the streets of, let’s say, London. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (31:36.246)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason (31:42.38)
I think when I when I started the podcast I

Started out with the kind of okay, adventure travel podcast, because what it meant cause what that meant to me was pretty much anything except for a big cruise ship or an all-resort inclusive all all inclusive resort hotel or beach hotel. I was like, it’s all an adventure because that’s just my mindset. But then I re I recognized, you know, some of the some of the guests I reach, potential guests I reach out to, like, well, we don’t do adventure, we just do, you know, st street food tours in Amon Jordan. I’m like, that that sounds like an adventure to me.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (31:55.375)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (32:14.415)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, Yeah.

Jason (32:15.791)
So anyway, where do is it easy for you to I don’t know if this is easy to answer, but where do most of your clients come from? Are they mostly European from the States or do you have a lot of Indian clients that you work with?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (32:32.315)
We mostly work with international clients. We are currently not working with the domestic market. The only reason is that the kind of product that is designed for an international customer cannot be just sold to an Indian customer. The expectations are different. sure, sure, of course. No, no, no, there is no politics. So the difference is that, let’s say,

Jason (32:51.191)
Can we can we touch on that? I I I don’t know if there’s politics involved in this, but I’d like to touch on that. What are th what are the differences?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (33:01.167)
We get a lot of people from the UK. Let me just tell you the geographies first. So we get a lot of people from the UK, US, Canada, and we also get from South America, Spanish speaking world. Then we get people from Australia, New Zealand, sometimes Singapore.

Basically anybody who speaks English, that person could be an Italian, but if they speak English, you know, we have had them before. yeah, we started doing Spanish tours, Spanish speaking tours like two years ago, and now that we are doing in that language as well. So when I say that the expectations are different, let’s say a British client, they usually come for anywhere between two to three weeks at once.

An Indian customer would never travel for three weeks. That is just not a part of culture. So an Indian customer they want is like a weekend trip.

Jason (33:56.568)
Well that’s a that’s a big difference right right there.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (33:58.991)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they want three days, four days, five days. They would never do 21 days. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (34:09.983)
And also, I I can understand from a business standpoint, I could imagine somebody w let’s work with people that want to do three weeks because it just makes more sense on many levels. But as far and it just gives you a lot more flexibility to provide a a more complex itinerary. But the Indian customer that only wants to do three or four days are

Are they inclined to wanna do the same types of activities but on a shorter scale? Or does somebody that grew up in India have no desire to go make pottery in the Himalayas or learn how to cook Indian food? I mean I can imagine they just want something different maybe.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (34:51.705)
Well, there is a growing set of people who want to experience Indian culture as well. And I’ll tell you the reason why. Because they have been living in the city for like generations. Their children are born and brought up in a city like a metropolitan city like Delhi and Mumbai. Their children have never seen a village before. Their children have not seen a countryside before. So for them, the reason to take this kind of a trip is to show to their children, not for themselves.

Okay, when they do, let’s say they take a pottery class, they take a cooking class, they are not doing it for themselves. They are doing it because they want to show it to their children. For a foreigner who is coming from the UK, everything is new. Like a monument is new. Cooking class is new. Pottery is new. Like everything is like novelty. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (35:45.666)
Breakfast is new, lunch is new. Yeah, I g I get it. Ever everything is like, yeah, that’s cool. All right. Okay. Cool. Let’s I wanna dig into your past. I wanna figure out how the heck did, you know, we get to this point where you and I are here having this conversation about your business in India and what you what you were doing with your clients. Let’s figure out how you got there. So

I would like to I like to go back, you know, into childhood at some point. I’ll let you pick when, but I mean what was it like growing up for you? What what was your childhood like, especially those things that you recall that maybe influenced your decision to end up working in tourism?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (36:25.263)
Yeah. Well, when I was a little child, I did not know that there is something called tourism. For us, it was just going with a family on a pilgrimage. That’s all. And typically in traditional Indian families, when I say traditional, it means the families that go in like in a bunch of 10 or 12 together. So they usually don’t go for adventure tours or cultural tours. They would generally go for a pilgrimage.

Jason (36:47.853)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (36:55.737)
Okay, and since my childhood, I have been on such pilgrimages with my family. So that was all about tourism for me. Till the time at least I graduated from my college. Okay.

Jason (37:08.343)
Can do you mind can we dig in a little bit more into what a pilgrimage is? I mean, I have an idea in my head, but how would you describe to somebody these pilgrimages you went on as a child?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (37:21.062)
Yeah, so a pilgrimage tour for an Indian family would be to go to, let’s say, the Ganges, the Ganga River in the Himalayas, stay there for two to three days and maybe go to different temples, pray, have some food, maybe stay in a monastery if they are more inclined towards practicing spirituality and then come back. For some people, it could be a pilgrimage of even 10 to 12 days if they are going to walk in the Himalayas.

And when I say Himalayas, doesn’t mean that spiritual tours only happen in the Himalayas. They happen all over India. It depends on which region you want to go to and which region you associate yourself with.

Jason (38:04.887)
So how did paint a picture for us it’s like you and your family? ‘Cause you mentioned it’s usually kind of a larger traditional group, family group traveling. Tell me a little bit about your family. Did you know, how big is your family? Do have a lot of siblings? And what did that what did that look like? Kind of exp like describe going on a pilgrimage, like in a way like with a story maybe.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (38:12.08)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (38:29.253)
So it would be like, you know, Indian families, they would just pack up their own food. They would not eat in a restaurant. That is another cultural difference. You when a British person comes, they do not want to pack their own food from UK. But an Indian family, especially they’re going on a pilgrimage, they would have like a box of food from their home all the way to the destination. And they would be planning it for a few days.

Jason (38:36.627)
c yeah, yeah, okay.

Jason (38:43.077)
Ha ha ha.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (38:58.181)
they do not do very advanced planning. They would just plan for let’s say two to three days in advance and they would say, okay, let’s just book whatever hotel we get, cheapest hotel. Also, the difference is that the kind of hotel and the hotel experience is not one of the major decisions here. Okay. The decision is to go on a pilgrimage. Even if you just stay like four people in one single room, it doesn’t matter. Okay. And then you get on a car. Usually people go in a car.

And these days, people have a little more money, so they start hiring a luxury coach as well. But in olden times, people used to just go by car or sometimes on a public bus. And they would reach, let’s say they would reach a place called Haridwar, which is in the Himalayas. I mean, it’s a very, very religious place where people just go for religious tourism. So they would get down, they would take some public transport.

and they would find some hotel. Sometimes people just land there and then find their hotel. And most of their time would be spent in going from one temple to the other and visiting the temple. And their only intention would be to absolutely be praying in front of the God. For me, it was a little different. For me, I also go to temples, but my interest lies in

Jason (39:59.502)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (40:22.169)
What’s going on over there? Okay, let me observe what other people are and why they are doing this. Let me try to find out the reason why they are doing this. Okay, temple is built like this. Why is it built like this? Okay, why is it built over a mountain? So I always had those questions in my mind. For me, a pilgrimage was not just about going to a temple and praying and coming back. Yeah, I think that was…

Jason (40:43.575)
Yeah. Actually actually on that on that point, the way you described that something came up in my head. I guess the question I want to ask is

Do a lot of the Indians that go on the pilgrimage like this, is this a, this is gonna be fun, we’re gonna spend time together as a family, and we’re gonna go have this adventure in a sense, or is it more out of a sense of obligation? It’s like this is just part of our culture, this is just what we do. We need to go pray in the Himalayas, we need to go to the Ganges River. So is it out of sense of obligation or is it kind of like a little mini vacation?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (41:21.5)
So it depends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it depends. Let’s say sometimes people just like to go together and spend some time together once or twice a year. And from that context, it is just a time to bond with different family members, bond together. Yeah. There are times when it’s an obligation as well. Let’s say somebody has died. Some family member has died.

Jason (41:21.675)
And I’m sure it’s different for different people. It sounds like for you it was a little bit more about the absorbing new things.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (41:49.165)
and you want to do the last rites of that family member. And for that, you go to a pilgrimage. Then it becomes an obligation. It’s not like to bond with each other.

Jason (42:00.224)
And what about I also because I spent a lot of time traveling around the US with my father and my brother when I was younger. And it was not luxury travel in any sense. We were in the the pickup truck, we pretty much slept at, you know, truck stops and stuff quite often. oftentimes would buy a bunch of food and bring it with us in instead of doing restaurants. So I get that. But I also remember

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (42:07.737)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (42:26.381)
I guess where I’m going with this is siblings. Like when you put a bunch of kids in a car and I’m just curious if you had that experience of, Hey, you’re on my side of the seat or hey, she he won’t leave me alone or she like do Indian kids fight with each other on these pilgrimages? Is that like kind of a stereotypical thing? Or do you feel like Indians get along pretty well when they travel together?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (42:38.907)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (42:51.451)
Well, I’ll say a statement that could be taken as a humor and but I would prefer that it is take it as a humor like Indians Indians have no sense of person space. Okay, So So if and you know before I said that I said that please take it as a humor because if if you’re going in a car Okay, and the car has a capacity of five people

Jason (42:58.229)
Okay.

Jason (43:06.847)
I have heard that.

Jason (43:13.324)
Yeah, yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (43:19.715)
you could easily stuff in 10 people in the same car. Okay.

Jason (43:23.317)
Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (43:26.35)
And they would have no problem. Nobody will say you are in my seat, you are in my space. Nobody will say that. They will just sit on top of each other and they will go. Okay.

Jason (43:32.587)
Wow.

Jason (43:37.261)
Yeah.

And for cul the cultural differences, you know, you take a typical American, you know, a family from the US and probably presumably Australia and some other places as well. You know, you put two kids in the back seat and they’re fighting the whole time. You know, it’s like he’s on my side of the seat. So it’s an interesting cultural difference, which I actually appreciate. I love cultural differences, but all right, that’s that’s that’s kinda fun. Thank you for sh thank you for sharing that. That was funny.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (43:51.801)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm, mm, mm. Yeah.

Jason (44:07.823)
Alright, so so your travel experiences as a child were mostly these pilgrimages. You were it sounds like a little bit more interested and how did the this get here, how you know the history, the the backstory basically than others. if I went to you when you were fifteen or sixteen, if I had a time machine and I said, Gordoff, what do you want to do when you grow up? What do you think the answer would have been? Did you have any idea?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (44:35.83)
what did I want to do when I was growing up?

Jason (44:37.729)
When when you grew up, like when y when you’re an adult, what kind of work do you want to do when you’re when you’re an adult? Do you do you know what you would have said at that age?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (44:43.305)
okay.

Absolutely. So I have a clear answer to that. did engineering. I did engineering when I was growing up, but it was not my choice. I did engineering just because everybody else was doing it. Okay. And as people know all over the world, most of Indians are engineers. Okay. So, but my interest was always into either becoming a pilot, like a commercial pilot or a fashion designer. I don’t know why fashion designer, but

Jason (44:49.271)
Yeah.

Jason (45:15.661)
It’s an interesting mix. Yeah. Let me ask you on the on the pilot part, was it because you were really interested in planes and how they work in aviation, the engineering side of it, or was did you see it as an opportunity to travel and explore?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (45:15.897)
But yeah, yeah, it’s an interesting mix.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (45:33.465)
Yeah, I had no interest in planes. My interest was in travel. yeah, when the commercial pilot license is quite expensive to get in India, at least for an Indian middle class Indian family. So that is one of the reasons why we couldn’t like why I really did not have money to become like a commercial pilot. But after I was like while I was doing the engineering, I actually tried to become a pilot in the Indian Air Force. So that

If not the commercial pilot, at least I become a fighter pilot. Because I’ll tell you why. Fighter pilots do not travel all across the world. But the sound of the plane, the sound of a fighter jet above you is so thrilling, like you get goosebumps when you hear the sound of a fighter jet. And that is what excited me. I wanted to get those goosebumps. Actually, I have them now also, like why I’m talking to you. Yeah.

Jason (46:29.079)
Just thinking about was do you remember was there a particular thing that happened or something you saw, like a movie or something like that, that that caused you to get excited about that? ’cause I remember Top Gun, you know, with you know, back in the day the fighter jets and it was it that made me want to go be a fighter pilot. I’m just curious if there was anything like that in your world.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (46:42.469)
Hmm. Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (46:54.457)
I don’t remember exactly if I saw a movie or something. I used to see a lot of Hollywood movies in my childhood as well. I think I was the only one in the family who was watching non-Hindi movies back then. But I don’t think a movie inspired me. It was just the sound of the plane that was so exciting that I wanted to be in that plane.

Jason (47:05.973)
Okay. Mm.

Jason (47:15.927)
Was there was there an air force was there an Air Force base near where you lived or I did you go to an air show or I when do you remember the first time you heard a jet like that and got excited?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (47:22.159)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (47:28.354)
Yeah, I mean, in Delhi, around Delhi, there are a few Air Force bases. And maybe I would have heard some fighter going above our house and somebody might have pointed out to me that that’s a fighter jet. And that’s how I came to know that that’s not a civilian plane. That’s like a military plane. Maybe, but I don’t remember exactly this part.

Jason (47:45.387)
Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right, so which which direction did you go? Did you end up in the Air Force or did you w where did where did you go from there?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (47:52.219)
No, Yeah. I did not end up in the Air Force because the maximum age of entering the Air Force is 21 years old. And by the time I already crossed 21, like I was 21 and a half when I realized that, let’s explore being in the Indian Air Force. So that was not an option anymore. I did engineering, and I was an engineer, like a software engineer for almost eight and a half years.

worked in India, I also worked in the UK, where I was based in a place called Milton Keynes, that’s a bit further away from London. And when I was there, working as a software engineer, then I got the chance to basically do a lot of backpacking across Europe. And that was the first time I got introduced to the concept of solo backpacking.

Before that, the travel was always like in a big family group and spiritual travel. That was all travel for me. So I saw that people were just taking backpacks, taking a train or a flight, some cheap European flight and going to different countries. And I wanted to do that. So I bought a backpack and took some leaves on and off and started traveling across Europe. And I did quite a few journeys across Europe. So that opened up my perspective about, know, okay, so there is a lot more to what I already know.

Then I came back to India after two years of staying in the UK. And then somehow I was no longer interested in software engineering. I started exploring different avenues. So what happened was my interest in travel started going up. And at the same time, my interest in software engineering started going down.

Jason (49:41.41)
I’ve got this girl, I’ve got this image in my head of your parents, like, great, we our son is an engineer. he’s going off to the UK and then he’s starting to backpack around and then you come back and you no longer wanna be an engineer. So

Did you break your mom’s heart? Did your was your family supportive of of this shift or were they like, w I knew we should have never we never should have let him go off to the UK because now he doesn’t want to be an engineer anymore? Was there any of that?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (50:17.113)
No, I don’t think they were ever, you know, they ever said that we should not let him have let him go to the UK because they were quite proud of me going to the UK and working over there. And as an engineer or even if I were something else, they would see my going to the UK was not associated with my profession. They looked at me as like a little child, like I was 24, but for them, I was still a little child. So this looked at me as a little child going to a foreign land.

Jason (50:26.337)
Uhhuh, as an engineer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason (50:36.001)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (50:47.087)
For them, it doesn’t matter whether it was software engineering or something else. So when I came back from there, and I did not immediately leave engineering, I still continued in that for almost five years after coming back. But slowly and steadily, I started exploring different avenues. So I tried, first of all, 3D animation. I did a degree course in 3D animation because I thought that if I could do that, I’ll go to the US and probably work in Hollywood.

Jason (50:51.917)
Okay.

Jason (50:59.757)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (51:15.445)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (51:16.988)
But then after I completed the animation course, I realized that after wasting so much of money, I do not want to do it. Okay? Yeah, it was a quite expensive course like it was it was in dollars. It was not even in rupees. It was quite expensive. But my family did not say anything because as long as it was my money, it doesn’t matter. Like I was not asking them for money. Okay, then after that, I did travel writing. I did blogging. I still have a blog and

Jason (51:24.147)
huh.

Jason (51:40.983)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (51:47.053)
I tried to make it as a career, but I realized that it could be as a hobby, but it is very difficult to make blog as a stable income source.

Jason (51:59.95)
Was your blog was your travel was your travel blog specific to India or other places as well, or just I’m just curious?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (52:09.531)
So the theme of the travel blog is rural and responsible tourism. That could be in India or that could be anywhere else. Yeah. I still have that blog, by the way. It’s still online. I simply do not have time to write on it these days. Then I also tried to do photography. I am pretty decent in photography, not like a professional, but I tried to make it like a professional thing. It did not work. I realized that, I can do it. Then I gave myself a little break.

And I started thinking, okay, what to do, what to do. And then I came up with this idea of the folktales. I do not have any degree in tourism. I have not studied tourism anywhere. So for me, this was a risk. I did not know how to run a business because like I had not done any business before. And doing a business versus doing a job are two very different things.

Jason (53:01.953)
Well yeah, they d they probably don’t teach a lot of that in engineering school, I’m thinking, or yeah, right, of course, yeah. All right.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (53:06.317)
Of course they don’t. They don’t even teach us what to do in a job, let alone a business.

Jason (53:12.717)
That’s that’s that’s a whole nother conversation. That’s yeah, but I I hear ya. Okay, all right.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (53:17.956)
Yeah, that’s a whole other conversation. So then we learned it on the go. We made mistakes. I also, along with the business, for a very long time, I did content writing to support myself in the background. Because I could not just leave everything and do only business.

We learned and then we identified a target market, whether we want to work with Indians or foreigners or like small groups, big groups, what is our really sweet spot. And then finally we arrived at the sweet spot that, we want to be a tailor-made tour company doing either independent groups or small groups with foreigners who want to visit India and they want to see a different side of India through stories. That’s what we really found the sweet spot.

Jason (54:10.807)
wonder if I missed something because all of a sudden I heard you saying we. so I don’t know I don’t know if I missed something, but you said we did this, we looked at this, we came up with this plan. So somebody else is involved. So let’s at the at that point was or were you when you say we meaning you yourself and you or what is what does that mean?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (54:33.051)
No, So when we started the company, I had another co-founder with me. And now she was with me for like six months. But then after that, she had to geographically move to another part of India. And from there, in those days, it was not easy to just coordinate for over 3,000 kilometers. So she decided to move away.

Jason (54:53.345)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Was she an engineer as well, or did she have some a little bit of knowledge about tourism or business that helped in the beginning?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (55:05.253)
No, she was from the development sector. She worked for non-profit organizations. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (55:09.44)
Okay.

So you’ve got this plan, so were and you were still doing some work on the side as you started the business? or your primary business, maybe the the business was the side hustle. I don’t know. What how long did it take before you got to the point where you were able to really kind of fully focus on the folktales?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (55:19.557)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (55:24.005)
No.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (55:31.867)
So between 2014, like we started in 2014, and up to 2000, let’s say around 19, I was doing content writing as well. And content writing was never the main thing. Business was always the main thing. I was giving my business most of the time. Content writing was like a support system to keep me stable, just in case something goes wrong here. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (55:52.376)
Sure. What is c what is content writing? Because we talked about blogging. You said it was hard to make money blogging. But when you say content writing, what kind of content were you writing?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (55:58.415)
Hmm. Hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (56:04.527)
Yeah. So blogging, the thing that I was doing was an independent WordPress blog that I had hosted online. OK. And I was just doing travel based content. Yeah. Yeah. So when I say I was doing content writing to support myself financially, that was for other businesses. So and that need not necessarily be travel content.

Jason (56:14.677)
Okay, so we’re t we’re still talking about your blog. When you say content writing, you’re talking about for your blog. Okay.

Jason (56:29.546)
okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (56:33.551)
Because I come from an engineering background, I did content writing for everything. Like I did for chemical industry, construction industry, shipping, manufacturing, education, prefabricated houses, construction, everything. I could do that because I come from engineering background. But at the same time, my focus was entirely on building the business.

Jason (56:57.527)
Did when you just described some of those industries and writing content for some of those industries, the thought in my head, and this just me, was like, my gosh, that sounds painful for some for for me. It doesn’t mean it was for you. Maybe it was very easy for you and you enjoyed it. But I’m curious, were you feeling like I need to hurry up and get this folktales thing going full-fledged so I can quit writing articles about soap?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (57:01.433)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (57:13.647)
Well.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (57:23.26)
Not really because I was enjoying both because like for me, I did not want to run away from the content as soon as possible. First of all, I had a good team and the people who are my managers, they were really good and I was enjoying working with them, but I was not in a full-time job. I was working like remotely. Secondly, this kind of content, who doesn’t like money coming in?

So, so even if I do not enjoy a certain part of the content, I’m happy to do it because I know that it is supporting me in order to build something even more meaningful. But I was not like under suffering or under any torture or anything. I in fact wrote for a lot of American companies as well. I have done content for your container industry, shipping container industry. I have done content for petroleum fracking in US.

Jason (57:55.285)
It’s nice sometimes, yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (58:23.291)
like completely different things and you but that opened up my perspective so much.

Jason (58:23.549)
wow, okay.

Jason (58:28.237)
Well

Yeah, well sometimes the variety too. If you’re if you’re only writing about shipping containers for six years, that might be a different story. No, okay. All right, so it so it sounds like you said in twenty nineteen is you kinda went to the next level with the business or what happened in twenty nineteen?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (58:36.943)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (58:52.133)
So basically 2019, I went through a phase where I was quite sick. Like I could not do content, I could not do business, I could not do anything at all. And I was going through some treatment in a hospital for several months. And after that, the COVID came. So eventually, like I was pushed out of the content automatically by the universe. And when the COVID got over, everything got over, it made me time to rethink. It gave me time to rethink and kind of re-strategize my entire life.

And when COVID, after COVID, the travel started again, I moved 100 % into travel.

Jason (59:33.463)
Okay, w at this point were you did you have any partners or was it pretty much you and I mean who else was involved with the company after COVID and you started focusing a hundred percent on it?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (59:48.923)
employees working for me. I don’t have any co-founders at the moment. I do not have any partners in the company, but there are employees who work for us, taking care of operations and everything. And of course, there is a lot bigger team who work for us as like freelancers, which is spread across India. So that’s a team of almost like 70, 80 people who work as freelancers for us.

Jason (01:00:13.293)
All right, very cool. Do you feel like your engineering background has been beneficial in at least coming up with with systems, so f say for example, your website or your keeping track of reservations and operations? ‘Cause that’s something that I think a lot of people that go into tourism don’t have the engineering mind. So they they tend to if you look at their operation or their marketing systems, they’re all just kind of all over the place. But d did that come in handy for you?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:00:32.313)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:00:43.021)
Absolutely. We have spent several years just routing systems and processes in place. And that is the complete credit goes to my engineering background because we have systems that talk to each other. They are not isolated systems. So our accounting system, CRM system, marketing system, emailing system, all are interconnected with each other.

I did not hire anybody to do this. I did this myself. Of course, I use a third party product, but integration and everything, know, just idea about how it should work together. This all came from engineering background. So I just do give credit to what I studied for those four years in my graduation.

Jason (01:01:29.343)
Has have you ever thought, geez, I figured out how to put together the back end of this tour operation company with all the engineering background and stuff like that. Is is that on the the potential in the future is to set up some sort of reservation system, CRMs and for other tour operators or is it just something you just did because you wanted to do it for yourself?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:01:51.267)
No, so it is not our own CRM. We use a third party product. But we…

Jason (01:01:56.184)
But as far as tying it up but as far as implementation and tying it all together, you basically you probably have something now you can could potentially share with others, I guess.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:02:06.725)
Well, if somebody wants consultation, could just tell them how to just get everything together in the company if they have any problem of bookings, not being able to, like they are not able to track bookings, they don’t know what their finances are, they don’t know where their money is being spent, they do not have a dashboard or.

Jason (01:02:24.983)
You you just described eighty percent of tour operators on the planet. Just and I and I I I say that in a joking way because I know people are listening, but but I’ve it’s a it can be a challenge for people. Yeah. All right.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:02:28.409)
Yeah, yeah, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or they do not know when their next booking is coming in. They forget the taxi driver. They forget to tell to the guide, all these little things. It can all be brought together in a unified system and process. That’s what we have done. And I think, as I said, it all credit goes to the engineering background.

Jason (01:02:56.311)
What do you enjoy most about your business right now?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:03:01.231)
Well, the flexibility to be in the Himalayas and run a business all over India, I think. Yeah.

Jason (01:03:07.797)
Right. What’s your least favorite? What’s the what’s your least favorite? What’s the thing that keeps you up at night? You’re like, geez, I really don’t like this part of it. Is there a part that you really don’t like or that y or that you’re willing to share with us?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:03:20.699)
Well, there is nothing that keeps me awake at night. I sleep and I sleep. But there is one thing I would like to… But it’s a cultural thing. You can’t do anything about it. Sometimes in India what happens is that you put together a bulletproof tour, everything is properly set, everybody knows what to do, and then one person will start doing their own thing. They will chuck the process out of the window and they will start doing their own thing. It could be a driver, it could be a guide.

Jason (01:03:25.165)
All right, that’s good.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:03:49.849)
Or it could be somebody like whoever. And that’s something that we, it happens all the time, at least with one person. Let’s say we tell the driver that, okay, our clients are, they want you to drive in this particular way, and you need to take care that you drive in this particular way. And suddenly something will happen to him and he will start driving like a crazy person. So we…

Jason (01:03:59.384)
Right.

Jason (01:04:13.741)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:04:16.503)
These are the few things that we take care of. These are the part of the operations that we take care of. It’s not something to be scared of, but it’s something to take it in a positive stride that even if something happens, there is a team behind to take care of it. I’m just saying that it’s a cultural thing that people sometimes take their own tangent and do their own stuff.

Jason (01:04:40.449)
I you know what?

That’s fascinating and I can I can imagine it’s it’s not just India sometimes, there’s other places that that that can be a challenge. But also one of the things that we have been talking about is the community involvement, the community interaction. And I’m curious if you could just share with us for a few minutes what what’s that like figuring out, okay, there’s this cool little village community over here and they do this cool little thing. I wanna, I would love to be able to offer that to our clients.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:04:46.757)
Yeah.

Jason (01:05:11.759)
And when you show up in the community and and discuss this idea with them, what is that like? What comes up around that?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:05:20.911)
Yeah, so I’ll tell you that first of all, not every community wants to work in tourism. Even if we say, we are going to get you business, we are going to get tourists, it doesn’t mean that everybody will be open to it. And that’s OK. We respect that. We only work with those communities who are actively open and proactive about working in tourism as well. So if I am approaching a community, I am not teaching them anything. I am using their skill.

Let’s say if I’m approaching a community that is expert in weaving with silk. So that is their skill. I cannot teach them what they’re already good at. What I can do is, as a tool company, I see what their skills are, and I see how that can be productized into a travel product, whether it should be a three-hour product or a one-day product or a two-day or a one-week product.

and how it should be designed in such a way so that somebody from the UK or the US or South America can come all the way 16,000 kilometers to India and experience that not just as a weaver but as a tourist who needs good food, who needs good place to sleep, who needs somebody who is a good communicator can tell the story of that place. It is not just important to do something, it’s also important that somebody is telling you

effectively about that place. Yeah, so productizing all these things is our job. And we do enter into that phase only when we see that the community is interested in working in tourism as well.

Jason (01:06:58.039)
How do you really judge their interest in working with you? Do sometimes you show up and hey, here’s an idea. Are you guys interested in doing this? Are they usually embrace it? Are they direct? Will they say, if they’re not interested, will they say no, we’re not interested? Or how do you figure out if they’re serious or not before you start sending clients there?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:07:24.315)
sending the clients comes much later, like almost after six, six months, seven months later. I think I discussed with you last time that Indians never say no straightforward. They will do things and you have to figure out that they are not interested. Let’s say I approach a community and they say, okay, we will see how if you want, we are interested. And then what will happen is,

Jason (01:07:26.977)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:07:53.019)
The tell-tale signals are that the people will forget to come. They will forget the schedule. They will say, oh, I was somewhere else, and I forgot. Please let’s do tomorrow. These are the signals that the community is not interested.

Jason (01:08:07.341)
That’s interesting. If and culturally, I mean, I’m sure sometimes don’t you want to just look at them and say, Seriously, just yes or no. Either way is fine. Just please just tell me now. I won’t be offended. But you culturally culturally it’s difficult to do that ’cause you’d would that be offensive or if you just seriously, just yes or no. Which is it?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:08:31.981)
Well, you know, in India, I personally prefer to say yes or no. And that is a problem for a lot of people because that is people don’t like, you if I say no, it is taken as an offense. But I personally like to say just no, I don’t want to do it. However, if you’re traveling across India, as I said, you have to just figure out. I do not want to work with people who are not particular about a schedule.

following a timeline, who do not want to be a part of, let’s say, a learning workshop. I mean, if you can’t take out two hours to be a part of a learning workshop, how can you host a tour of two days? So that’s a very good signal for me that either I need to find a new community or I need to find a new person.

I cannot change somebody, I can only use their own skills. Yeah.

Jason (01:09:30.397)
imagine a scenario where at the very beginning before you get too far with them is just set up a series not a series but maybe even just one appointment you know hey let’s meet at such and such at nine o’clock to discuss this and if they don’t even if they show up late for that one or don’t show up for that one then it’s okay well I guess they’re not interested. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:09:51.451)
Well, yes, mean, our work is already very operationally intensive. My operations person has to keep calling somebody or the other every day from morning till evening. We do not want to make it even more difficult. We want to make it easy.

Jason (01:10:08.107)
Yeah. Even like in my experience working with a lot of guides over the years, even the guides that are really enthusiastic, really like their jobs, even they sometimes have a hard time maintaining schedules and following through on commitments. So if you can imagine you take someone that’s not even that interested. What a pain in the butt. All right, that’s yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:10:16.485)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:10:21.785)
Yeah. Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:10:27.93)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, I completely agree that everybody is a human. And let’s say there is a person who is really good at their job. And sometimes they do a mistake. It’s OK. I mean, we are not going to hold them by the collar. They are human and they can do mistakes. It’s all right. And that’s how we think.

Jason (01:10:48.129)
Yeah. And and there are still cultural differences ’cause you’re dealing with a European, you know, clientele, at least y I don’t know, you probably get Germans every once in a while people from Switzerland. The they c they kinda like the schedule to work the way it’s supposed to work. And I I mean that’s a huge stereotype I should

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:11:01.963)
Yeah, sometimes we do get Germans, Austrians as well.

Jason (01:11:11.977)
stick away from but but it’s culturally there can be differences. I spend a lot of time in Latin America. There’s three words in Spanish that basically mean now but don’t really mean now. you know the word b is

Ahora yeah. It’s like ahora could be in a while, it could be tomorrow, ahorita is like a dominion of yeah, it it’s a it’s it’s a fun thing. So it took me yeah, yeah. That just means okay.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:11:37.399)
Right now? Yes.

It’s almost now. Almost now, now and now.

Jason (01:11:46.956)
Yeah. Or they’ll say, Giacomino, like I’m on the way, which means, you know, they’re they’re having their coffee, getting ready to take a shower. They’re so anyway, so cultural differences are always a bunch of fun. God, we discussed a a bunch of things and I appreciate everything that you’ve shared with us, and I wanna make sure we didn’t miss anything that’s important to you. So I’m curious, what do you wish I would have asked you or what do you is there anything else you want to share with our audience?

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:11:51.289)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (01:12:16.879)
before we wrap up.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:12:18.511)
Yeah, I want to give a like a snapshot of the kind of experiences that are available in India because when somebody thinks about India for the first time, the first place to think of is Rajasthan and Taj Mahal or the think of Kerala because these are two of the places that are heavily marketed all across the world. It’s like the Eiffel Tower. but India, you can have sent

I know if you go to central India, it’s not just national parks. There are village, beautiful village communities, tribal communities in central India. If you want to see like adventure, if you want to see like activities like caving and rafting and, you know, trekking and living with the tribes and, you know, experiencing culture that is more closer to Southeast Asia like Myanmar and Vietnam. The entire northeastern India.

Shares its culture more closely with Vietnam and Myanmar than with New Delhi Okay Yeah, so whether it’s about their food or their language or their accent the way they speak Everything is more closer to Southeast Asia. You can experience Southeast Asia in India to a certain extent You can go to the Himalayas and Himalayas doesn’t only mean that you know you go for a trekking

You can go for a cultural experience where you spend walking with the nomads of Ladakh. You can spend a luxury tour in Ladakh where you stay in all eco-friendly five-star hotels. You can, at the same time, if you like activities, hands-on activities, you could spend time with the Pashmina weavers. If you have inclination in textiles, you could do two to three-day workshop of learning how to do Pashmina weaving.

If you have religious significance, like there are people who come to India for Buddhism because India is the place where Buddhism started. So a lot of people from Southeast Asia, we have received people from as far as Korea who come to India just to experience Buddhism. And we design an experience like 14 to 15 day thing just about Buddhism. They go to caves, they see the wall murals, they talk to monks.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:14:41.849)
They even get to see the scriptures in the monasteries. And there is a Buddhism expert who will translate between English and Tibetan for them. So it is not just about Rajasthan and monuments and forts in Kerala. There is so much more in India. Beyond what you see in just normal advertisements, that’s something that I wanted to give a snapshot of.

Jason (01:15:10.475)
I, you know, I think there’s I I wanna ask you this because it’s it’s a challenging question to ask, but the reality is an awful lot of people that live in the United States or people that I’ve had conversations with about India have probably a totally different experience than you offer your clients. But there’s the person that went to you

Went to India to see the Taj Mahal. They spent a week there and they got sick. You know, they they came back and they well when we went to India we got sick, we ate something, da da da da da. And I mean it’s just it’s something I hear a lot. I it wouldn’t stop me, but some people hear that some people that’s what they hear about India. Their friends say, Yeah, we went to India, we got sick. But I’m sure most of your clients d have

totally different experience. So I just want to touch on that if you don’t mind, just in case somebody’s listening to this that has avoided India because somebody ten years ago said they got sick.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:16:19.099)
So I completely understand and accept that this is a genuine question for people. So I am not at all saying it’s not a problem. But if you are going in, let’s say, a private tour, it is always best to talk to the person who is designing your tour, that what kind of food we will be eating and where will we eat that, first of all. For example, to our clients, we always give a bottle.

Like it has a bottle with a filter inside. So you could fill it from anywhere. You could fill it from a restaurant. You could fill it from a tap. You could fill it from like wherever. And it will filter like 99.99 % of anything. And it is a certified claim. It’s not just in the air. So that is a way we protect people from at least anything from the water. When it comes to food,

It is always best to stay in a good hotel or in a homestay. Because in a homestay, the food is always prepared fresh. In our homes in India, we do not eat food from two days before. We always cook fresh. So any food that is hot and fresh will not make you fall sick. What will make you fall sick is if you are eating on the streets. Because sometimes

The people who use the oil on the streets, they use it over and over, over multiple days. And that is not good. let’s say you just go to a shop and you eat something because it looks nice. You don’t know what that shop is. You just saw somewhere on TripAdvisor and you went there and you ate something. But I wouldn’t really recommend that. Just depending upon TripAdvisor or some Instagram.

Jason (01:17:54.775)
Mm-hmm.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:18:18.523)
You can discuss it with your tour operator and if it’s a nice tour operator, they will take time to explain it to you. I think they have that responsibility to give you an explanation. when honestly in last 12 years of our business, two times, two times people have fallen sick and when they fell sick, we help them. We gave them like a proper medication. We help them with local medicines as well.

which immediately makes them feel better. But just two times in 12 years is like a very low probability. What do you think?

Jason (01:18:47.223)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (01:18:55.681)
Yeah, no, that sounds great. And what I love about pardon me, about your response is you acknowledge right off the bat, yeah, I acknowledge this is a concern that people have and this is what we’ve done about it. Because I remember I was on a trip with an operator years ago and I got a little sick. I wasn’t following any guidelines. They didn’t give me any guidelines. I was just eating wherever and whatever. And then

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:19:00.763)
Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Yeah.

Jason (01:19:21.921)
the response when I said, Geez, I’m not feeling very good the response was, well, you’re just not used to our f you know, you’re just not used to our food And it wasn’t anything it was just it was in Venezuela.

And it just kind of like, you’re just not used to our food. Like it was my fault for somehow, whatever, whatever. And I was on my own to get to the pharmacy. I didn’t speak any Spanish at the time and you know, I’m at the pharmacy trying to explain to this person what my problem is, you know, using body language. And yeah, so anyway, it was one of those experiences like so when I hear your response, I’m like, man, if I’d if I’d gotten that response with with that tour operator back in the day.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:19:53.243)
Hmm.

Jason (01:20:03.843)
I probably wouldn’t even be thinking about questions like I just asked you. But I appreciate that. That’s a that anybody that was thinking about that now is gonna feel like they should probably reach out and talk to you.

Goref, we’re gonna have a link right to your website in the show notes. So, you know, people that are listening, if if India is on your radar at all, which if you’re still listening to this conversation, my guess is yes, you know, go go reach out to the folktales, take a look at what they’re doing and thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing so much. It was a fascinating conversation and

next time I have an opportunity I I flew through Delhi, I stayed at the airport for three hours and the whole time I was there I was like, I’m killing myself. I just gotta I wanna get out of here and and get out of the airport, meaning not get out of Delhi. but so I I suspect I’ll see you there in person at some point soon. Thanks, Gaurav

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:20:48.537)
Yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:21:00.097)
Sure, Jason, it doesn’t have to be about tourism if you happen to fly through Delhi. Okay, okay, bye. I was saying that if you come to Delhi, if you’re crossing Delhi and if there is an opportunity, we could get together for a coffee or something.

Jason (01:21:01.323)
Have a great day. Bye. go ahead. Yeah.

Jason (01:21:09.42)
No it

Jason (01:21:16.583)
Absolutely. It sounds it sounds good. That would be fascinating. So all right, I look forward to it and I’ll I’ll see you in India soon. Thanks, Gaurav. Bye bye.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:21:19.193)
Yeah, yeah.

Gaurav Bhan Bhatnagar (01:21:25.02)
Sure, bye.

 

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