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Episode #165: Genevieve White

Travel and Tourism Copywriter and Coach

Campion Comms & Coaching

Episode #165: Genevieve White
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Guest Bio

Genevieve White is a travel and tourism copywriter and coach, and the founder of Campion Copy, based in the Shetland Islands, where dramatic landscapes and close-knit community life shape both her work and worldview. With a background in education and writing — and a lifelong fascination with travel — Genevieve helps travel businesses express the true value of the experiences they create through thoughtful, story-led copy.

Working with boutique tour operators, destination management companies, short-term rental hosts, and destination-focused travel brands around the world, Genevieve supports business owners in moving beyond generic sales language and into meaningful storytelling. Her approach centres on clarity, connection, and confidence — ensuring each brand’s voice reflects the care and intention behind the experiences they offer.

A teacher at heart, Genevieve is just as passionate about coaching as she is about writing. Alongside done-for-you copywriting, she offers copy coaching, brand voice development, and workshops that empower clients to communicate more effectively long after the project ends. Her work has supported travel businesses across Europe and beyond, helping them build trust, connect with the right guests, and ultimately increase bookings.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Genevieve about her journey from teaching into travel and tourism copywriting, and how storytelling became the foundation of her business. Genevieve shares how her background in education shapes her coaching style and why helping clients gain clarity in their messaging is just as important as writing polished marketing copy.

The conversation explores the role of personal stories in travel marketing, particularly in email communication, where authenticity and connection can make the difference between being overlooked and genuinely engaging potential guests. Genevieve explains why effective copy isn’t about pushing for bookings, but about building trust and inviting the right travellers in.

Jason and Genevieve also discuss life in the Shetland Islands, how the pandemic reshaped perspectives on work and lifestyle, and why creativity often comes from paying attention to everyday experiences. Throughout the episode, Genevieve offers thoughtful insight into writing with intention, staying human in a digital world, and building travel businesses rooted in meaningful connection.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Storytelling is one of the most powerful tools in travel marketing
  • ✓ Clear, thoughtful copy helps build trust before asking for a booking
  • ✓ Finding your unique voice makes your brand more memorable and authentic
  • ✓ Email marketing works best when it feels personal, not promotional
  • ✓ Teaching and coaching empower business owners beyond a single project
  • ✓ Creativity often comes from observing everyday moments
  • ✓ Community and lifestyle can strongly influence how we work and create
  • ✓ COVID encouraged many business owners to rethink their messaging and direction
  • ✓ Genuine conversations create deeper engagement than sales-led content

What You’ll Find on Campion Copy

  • Website copywriting for travel and tourism brands
  • Email marketing strategy and copy, including newsletters and nurture sequences
  • Copy coaching and brand voice development
  • One-to-one and group coaching programmes
  • Workshops and presentations for travel industry organisations

Learn more about Campion Comms & Coaching and connect with Genevieve at:

https://campioncopy.com/

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Podcast Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.

Jason Elkins (00:01.072)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today and also super excited to have our guest today. We’ve got Genevieve White. She’s the travel and tourism copywriter and coach with Campion, comms and coaching. And not just with Campion, that is your company. Is that right Genevieve?

Genevieve White (00:21.838)
I am campaign comms and coaching Jason, yeah.

Jason Elkins (00:23.152)
You are, yeah. Which means you have a lot of titles. Because I know what that’s like when you are the company. You do a little bit of everything. super excited to, yeah, super excited to dig into that, figure out what all that means. Also really mostly interested in kind of what your story is. You we spoke a few weeks ago and I thought we just need to come back and push the record button and learn a little bit about you. But before we get into…

Genevieve White (00:32.511)
Absolutely.

Jason Elkins (00:49.008)
where you came from, let’s kind of discuss where you’re at. Let’s tell our listeners what is Campion, comms and coaching? What should they know about that before we get into your background and childhood and all that good stuff?

Genevieve White (00:59.95)
Well, I think what the listeners need to know about me really is that I write copy for travel and tourism businesses. I write words for websites. But at the moment, what I’m really focusing on, because my absolute first love is writing newsletters. So newsletters and emails for small travel and tourism businesses.

I just absolutely love doing this so I’m really going all in on it. I write newsletters for my clients but also I provide coaching services. So I coach people if they want to, you know, because they maybe want to, they don’t want to pay for me to write their newsletters for the rest of their lives because that’s going to be a lot of money. So what I like to do is coach people with the copywriting skills they need to write newsletters for themselves.

Jason Elkins (01:45.447)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:54.514)
I’m curious, because you said something interesting that you said if they don’t want to pay me forever, because that’s going to be a lot of money. But I guess my question is somebody comes to you and says, yeah, I’m open to doing it myself. I’m coachable. Or I can pay you either way. Do you have a preference? Do you enjoy the coaching like to where you might actually you know what? I’d rather coach you and get you sent off on your way. Or would you rather do it for them forever and make more money? Just curious.

Genevieve White (02:19.79)
It’s tricky. come from, we’ll get into this a little bit later, I suppose, with our background conversation, but I’m a teacher. That’s my background. That’s what I started off with, being a teacher. And I suppose I’ve never quite lost that feeling of just satisfaction to see somebody just getting it. just when I see those light bulb moments that my clients experience, when they finally

Jason Elkins (02:28.497)
okay.

Genevieve White (02:49.656)
gain the confidence to write about their experiences in their own voice. And I know that they can do it really better than any copywriter ever could because it’s their baby, it’s their experience, it’s their business. You know, that’s worth all the money in the world to me. So it sounds cheesy, but that’s really what I love. But I also…

I must admit, if somebody is, a lot of the time people are just pushed for time and they’re like, well, great, I love the sound of your coaching, well, maybe do that one day. But at the moment I’ve got a trip needing filled, it’s in a few months time, need a sequence of emails written, can you do it? And then when I get that, I love that as well because I love the freedom of just being able, I mean, sometimes I copyright myself into like wanting to go on these trips because, you know, I’m writing the copy and I’m like, I…

Jason Elkins (03:41.553)
I should hope so.

Genevieve White (03:45.302)
I want to go on this trip now! yeah, so it’s, I love both and it’s a balance I suppose I love because I’m one of these people who’s a little bit introvert, a little bit extrovert, so I love working with people. So I love the days that I’ve got lots of calls lined up. But I also love a day when I can just have my pajamas on and not worry about my hair, not worry about anything and just sit down and write. So it’s a balance for me. I just love it.

Jason Elkins (04:10.673)
cool it’s good to have it’s good to have both and I’m curious because I haven’t had an opportunity to really have this conversation with anybody about what does that look like let’s say somebody reaches out or you connect with somebody and they know they need a is it typically does it start off with some sort of email sequence is that the most common scenario when you’ve got somebody that comes to you

Genevieve White (04:32.261)
you mean what they want from me? Or how they fight? Yeah.

Jason Elkins (04:35.461)
Yeah, I guess, I mean, because you you mentioned kind of a couple things. One is kind of the email sequence. Maybe you set up an initial email sequence with automations when somebody signs up on the website, that type of thing. But you also mentioned the newsletters. So I recognize those are two different things. I guess the first question is, what’s the most common scenario when they first start having conversations with you? Are they looking for a sequence or a newsletter or does it just always end up being both?

Genevieve White (04:46.36)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (05:01.55)
No, sometimes it’s a sequence if they’ve got something that they need to, a trip they need to fill urgently or if they’re just kind of needing more bums on seats generally, then it will be a sequence. But sometimes it’s just like, so for example, recently I had a client who was just, she was, she’d been writing the emails herself. She wasn’t pushing anything in particular or launching anything in particular, but she was just really bored of…

of writing her own. By the way, I use emails and newsletters a little bit interchangeably. I think I like, when I say emails and newsletters, I mean the same thing. She was really bored of writing her regular broadcast emails. I’ll just say emails from that one. And she said, she just felt, they just always sounded really generic. And she actually quite liked writing and she had the time to write, but she was just starting to bored herself. So it was in that case, she wanted help.

Jason Elkins (05:35.887)
Okay, all right.

Genevieve White (06:00.288)
I guess, kind of generating ideas so that she wasn’t boring herself anymore. And she also wanted help discovering her own voice because with my coaching clients, we do a lot of that. What is your own voice? What is your unique way of speaking? Because I suppose at the heart of my philosophy is connection. And that’s why I love emails because it’s, you know, travel.

adventure travel especially, but all sorts of travel, it’s all about building connection and trust. It’s not like, you you buy a pair of jeans, you don’t really need to trust the person who’s selling it to you. It’s, but if you’re, if you’re like booking, you know, an adventure experience somewhere, there needs to be that element of trust. So I’m very much about build a connection and the bookings will come. And that’s why I love working with emails and why I’ve gotten really into it, because I think that that is a

just a brilliant way to build trust and that relationship and build that loyalty as well. So, so yeah, people come to me for all sorts of different reasons, but often it is just because they just want inspiration for their regular email sequences.

Jason Elkins (07:13.797)
Got it, got it. And that prompts a few questions and I don’t, know, once you come out of your feeling, you’re sharing all your trade secrets and stuff, but I’m curious. Very cool.

Genevieve White (07:23.244)
Don’t mind. I don’t mind. I can talk about this till the cows come home so it’s fine.

Jason Elkins (07:31.484)
Well, for those of our listeners that aren’t able to see your screen on the face, or your face on the screen, I should say, I can see it in your face and your expressions. It looks like you really enjoy it. I guess a couple things, because I know that some of our listeners are tour operators that maybe are writing their own emails or maybe they’re in the same situation. They’ve been doing it for a while.

most likely we have listeners that are not writing any emails and then because that’s usually what happens I think is like you know they they got set up with some sort of email system and they maybe sent out a couple newsletters early on when they were all excited and motivated about it but then life happens and you know I’ve talked to a lot of awful lot of operators that have a mailing list of you know maybe it’s a thousand or maybe it’s ten thousand or twenty thousand and you say when’s the last time you sent an email well yeah we’re not very good about that

And the reason I know that is because when guests come on to the show on the podcast most of them are tour operators and part of the conversation we have is like hey we can do this episode you’re gonna want to share it with your audience you know you’re gonna want to send an email out and say hey I was on Jason’s podcast and that’s when the car sometimes the conversation gets really quiet you can hear the birds chirping you’re like you do send out emails don’t you well but I don’t call them out during the conversation you know when they’re on the show we don’t talk about it they’re

Genevieve White (08:51.789)
Ha ha.

Jason Elkins (08:52.081)
their procrastination or whatever. I’m sure that that’s how much so many ways we can go with this. I guess first and foremost, when I think of coaching, I think part of coaching is kind of that accountability thing. Like if you’re coaching me to start, yeah, if you’re coaching me to get my email list going and sending out regular emails and stuff like that, I suspect that it’s not all about coaching on.

Genevieve White (09:06.328)
so much.

Jason Elkins (09:18.479)
my voice or coaching on ideas, but also it’s just kind of like, did you do it? Tell me about your last email. Do you get into that accountability part of it?

Genevieve White (09:25.165)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (09:30.126)
Absolutely, that’s a huge part of it and I mean I’m pretty flexible so generally like I’ll offer as one of my packages is like four sessions and I don’t, I’m not very prescriptive, I don’t say okay it has to be two weeks and then we meet two weeks later. I’m pretty easy-ozy so I’ll say like, will we? And I do, have to really like nudge people and push people and they respond to that, they like it, they like that accountability.

And also I suppose I get very, very invested in my copy clients as well. So I subscribe to their email lists. And if I haven’t heard, like if one of my alumni has finished and I’ve not heard from them for a little while, you can be sure that I will be emailing them and saying, excuse me, come on. You know, you’ve got, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I mean, luckily,

Jason Elkins (10:19.185)
Uh huh. What’s going on? I haven’t seen an email in a while.

Genevieve White (10:26.44)
so many of them by the time they’ve finished their sessions, they genuinely are inspired and excited to, they’ve got all of their ideas. The most exciting thing about it is they start to see stories and inspiration everywhere. And they come to me and they’re like, nah, I don’t have anything to write about. I don’t know what to write about. And so much of it is through our conversations.

like learning to identify all of the stories they’ve got to tell because really it is story driven emails that I am so fond of and I think work so well. And yeah, they can see stories everywhere when they leave and they’re just dying to tell them because they’ve got amazing stories because people in travel and tourism have fantastic stories to tell.

Jason Elkins (11:22.553)
It is such a benefit for those of us in this space that there are interesting things that just happen pretty much year round. And even if you’re running a tour business that only runs three or four months in the summer or something like that, there’s often things come up. You get feedback from clients that were with you last year. You’ve got maybe you go to a trade show, meet some people, whatever.

what I wanted to mention was I’ve noticed because I’ve got a few clients that I do some email stuff for not to the level you’re doing it I’m sure and but what I noticed with them is initially they’re kind of like well I know I should be doing this but I’m not really sure what to talk about and the first few emails are kind of a little bit of a challenge but like you said once they kind of get in the routine

Genevieve White (12:04.131)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (12:06.341)
then all of sudden like their email me just stuff like hey here’s another thing for the newsletter and it’s like all of a sudden you’re coming up with all this stuff and I think it’s because they start to yeah like you said maybe it’s the reticular activating system where they start to see the stories you know yeah yeah so that’s that’s pretty cool

Genevieve White (12:12.973)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (12:21.602)
Yes, absolutely. It’s definitely that. It’s habit building as well. know, just getting into the habit. It’s thinking about just even things like just getting into the habit of noting down ideas as they come to you because so many people get great ideas when they’re in the shower or, you know, out for a run and it’s just getting into that. Don’t let that idea leave you just

keep it there and then immediately have somewhere like a place, doesn’t matter where it is, if it’s your notes app on your phone, if it’s a notebook, wherever, and just start to note it down. And something else you just said there, Jason, you said about stories about your guests or travellers. These are the most amazing stories. And I mean, I’ve actually been working just recently in the past couple of weeks with someone who came to me just like,

you know, I don’t know what I’m doing. I need to write these emails. I need to write these. I need to I need to fill this trip. And she gave me a few women because she does trips especially for women. And she gave me a few women and she said, I think these women would would would would have good things to say about my trips. And my goodness, I contacted them. One of them so kindly sent me her entire journal.

Jason Elkins (13:34.353)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (13:50.594)
from the trip in Word document form. So I had this like amazing raw material to work from. it was just, I mean, I couldn’t have dreamt of stories as good as this. you just, so your clients, your traveller stories are the best stories. they, often they show that transformation as well. And then your readers can see themselves in those stories.

Jason Elkins (14:14.513)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (14:17.77)
So yeah, mean, that’s another, the raw material of just talking with people who’ve been on your trips is amazing, amazingly rich.

Jason Elkins (14:24.017)
Yeah. Well, and that I don’t, you know, depending on how you choose to feature those stories.

it can provide a lot more variety in the emails. It’s not just what Jason’s thinking today. You know, what is Jason thinking this week? It’s a variety of people from a variety of places. you know, if you’re, cause if you know, if you’re on an email list and you live in, I don’t know, Chicago and you get an email from somebody you’ve been thinking about going on a trip with and.

Genevieve White (14:35.246)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (14:38.974)
Yeah, exactly.

Jason Elkins (14:56.369)
There’s a story about someone from Chicago that, you know, that’s going to resonate. You’re going go, there’s people like me that go do these trips with this company. And it’s, it’s so much better than the operator or his guides or whoever, you know, Hey, aren’t we great? Look how great we are. You know? Yeah.

Genevieve White (15:13.504)
Yeah, I know, absolutely. Yeah, social proof is just always the best thing if you could use it and if you can build some kind of story about it, it’s even better, yeah.

Jason Elkins (15:25.317)
Yeah, and it’s just like you said, just the idea generation, just like, cause I guess I’m curious about this because I suspect a lot of your clients that don’t write every day, they haven’t been writing for years. If you just, you know, say you sit down in front of a computer screen and write something and so that’s why you need to encourage them to take notes when ideas come up and constantly be on the lookout. I’m curious though for you because…

Do you follow the same rules for yourself or are you able to just sit down with your cup of coffee and just come up with stuff because you’ve been doing it so long or what do you do for yourself?

Genevieve White (15:59.106)
No, I do pretty much follow the same rules. I have ideas like coursing through my head the whole time. So I’m very disciplined about making notes and coming back to things. But also, I mean, I have compared with all of my clients the most boring life because I am like, you know, I am home, I am working. I’m not out there like in the bush.

Jason Elkins (16:08.634)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (16:22.437)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (16:27.51)
leading trips. I’m just home and I have this amazing work life because I’m talking to these fantastic clients from all over the world. But know, actual day to day is pretty dull. But I can still, even with this very dull life, there’s always stories and you can always, you can make the most mundane thing. You can make a visit to the dentist a story and it can be a great story. It’s how you tell, it’s how…

Jason Elkins (16:29.243)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:37.393)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (16:42.587)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:55.409)
Well, maybe you could. Maybe I can’t, you maybe you could. Do do you know? Do you know?

Genevieve, why I do a podcast, an interview style of podcast is because I’m not that creative. And when I first thought about doing a podcast, was like, well, I could either try and come up with things to talk about each episode, or I could just bring someone interesting that is interested in what they’re doing. And it’s just so much easier. So I admire people that can come up with these ideas.

Genevieve White (17:24.632)
but there’s a definite… Yeah, but there is such a skill in getting people to talk about themselves and you are so good at that, so don’t put yourself down.

Jason Elkins (17:34.238)
you’re so… We’re not finished yet. Hold your words till the end. There may be some awkward moments in there, but thank you. You’re so sweet to say that. But a big part of that’s just because I enjoy it. I actually, when I started this, I really had no idea exactly why I was doing it.

And then I got to the point where I figured, I pretty much achieved my goals of kind of getting myself out there and connecting with some people. And there’s probably been even a few points where I was like, I’m not sure I need to keep doing this. But then I was like, but I love the contact. I travel, I’m a full-time traveler. It’s hard making friends when you’re on the road by yourself staying in Airbnbs. So the show’s become kind of an outlet for me to just connect with people that I think are interesting. that’s what I do, but.

Genevieve White (18:08.142)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (18:19.574)
Yeah, and have you ever ended up, sorry I shouldn’t be asking the questions, it’s your job, but have you ended up having long term friendships with people you’ve interviewed? Staying in touch? That’s great.

Jason Elkins (18:23.985)
No, no, please do. This is fun. It’s a conversation. Two way.

Jason Elkins (18:34.629)
Yeah, it’s been pretty cool and also clients, know, I mean, honestly, every every client I’ve had in last two years started as a guest on the podcast and I’m not I’m proud of that. I think that that’s a that’s a super great thing. And that’s part of the fun. You know, we get to come in, you know, I get to hear about their story, learn about their thing. And then then after I stopped the record button, they’re like, so, Jason, how do you make money doing this podcast? Well, I do websites, I do emails and then, you know, that so it feeds the business. So that’s good. But mostly it’s just

Genevieve White (18:43.832)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (18:49.303)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (19:02.774)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (19:04.409)
Just people that just, know, cause I send out a weekly email with the new episodes and every once in a someone will respond and you know, that’s been on the show before. And then they heard someone else that’s been on the show and say, Hey, can you introduce me? That type of thing. it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s been very, very rewarding. And I know you have some of those similar experiences with networking and you’ve been on quite a few podcasts and had a lot of recorded conversations as well.

Genevieve White (19:21.954)
Y-yeah.

Genevieve White (19:27.182)
Yeah, yeah, I have had a few and I am well, it’s not on the scale you do it, but I do sometimes like LinkedIn Lives with people in tourism and like yourself. I think it goes back to what I said earlier as well. And what you said is a really good example of it. It’s if you have that connection with somebody, if you’ve built that connection, there’s that trust and you can do amazing things from that trust and you know, either.

either just meeting with someone and having a conversation like we’re doing now, or sometimes, you know, through regular email correspondence, people can start to feel like they really know you. Like my clients, when we meet for the first time, they’re usually subscribers to my own email list. And then when we meet, they say, Jenny, I feel like I know you so well. And of course, like, they don’t really know me because we’ve never met, but they feel like they really know me because they’ve…

Jason Elkins (20:10.139)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (20:21.666)
They’ve had all these stories from my life.

Jason Elkins (20:25.905)
And what a great point for that. I mean, if they feel that connection with you because you’ve been staying in touch with them by email, it’s probably a pretty easy sell, isn’t it?

Genevieve White (20:37.262)
Yeah, yeah, yeah it is because yeah because I have these like some every so often I’ll periodically say you know my emails I’ll say you know message me if I’ve got some opening for work so yeah so book a call if you want to talk and it is it’s never when I started doing it I was like it’s like a sales call actually it’s not it’s just like

It’s like friends and then I never have to, I don’t even have to persuade them. And I think that’s how it goes. And that’s how it just, it just transfers through to everybody. If you are writing these kinds of emails that build trust, you don’t really have to sell because it just, it’s that relationship and it’s just natural. And it’s not, you don’t have to be pushy and salesy. say, no, a lot of people don’t like that anyway. It doesn’t come naturally to a lot of people. And it’s a turnoff as well for people.

Jason Elkins (21:03.909)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (21:17.594)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (21:27.557)
Yeah, especially people, especially people that work in the tourism business. Most of us are, we got in it because we just really like to hang out with people and share experiences and, and that type of thing. I think very few people go into this business.

Genevieve White (21:32.974)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (21:43.74)
thinking I want to be a salesperson. I want to go into tourism and be a salesperson. know, those guys go sell insurance, real estate, stuff like that. There’s plenty of other things for somebody who really aspires to be a salesperson. And what’s really cool though with your emails is like, the people we work with are really smart. So if they’re getting your emails,

Genevieve White (21:46.35)
Yeah, exactly.

Jason Elkins (22:08.461)
and they click on a link that says book a call, they completely understand, wow, look what she did. She got me on a call, didn’t she? I wish we could do that with our clients. So I can imagine that when they show up, they’re ready to go.

Genevieve White (22:19.735)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. It’s lovely. Yeah!

Jason Elkins (22:25.413)
That’s very cool. All right, we’re gonna change direct. I suspect we’ll come back and discuss some more of the stuff, because I really do think it’s fascinating. But you mentioned, you said, well, I’m kind of boring. You know, I work at home and you, but you deal with all these people that are going to do it and doing this stuff. But I think that there’s a story. I know there’s a story. So let’s figure it out. Let’s go before you were a teacher though.

because I suspect things were happening before that. So how far back do we need to go?

Genevieve White (22:49.77)
Right, okay.

Okay, we have to go back 30 years, but don’t worry, I’ll summarize it.

Jason Elkins (22:59.153)
you were very young then. Okay, so, all right. So about five then. Okay, so what was going on when you were five?

Genevieve White (23:05.733)
What a charmer, honestly. So if we go back 30 years, was actually, Jason, you’ll fall off your seat, but I was 20. 20, 20, yeah. So that’s where I started my life teaching, but I was obsessed with travel. I got married very young and my husband and I, instead of a honeymoon, we decided we would go teaching in different countries, teaching English.

Jason Elkins (23:16.194)
Okay, all right.

Jason Elkins (23:33.519)
See, I knew it. I knew there was a story.

Genevieve White (23:34.952)
So that’s what we did. we had the best, like through our twenties, we had the best time. lived in Hungary for several years and we taught and we traveled all around Central Eastern Europe and we taught in Romania for the year. And I just, I just wanted to keep going. I would still be traveling now. I had my sights set in Mongolia and that was the next place we were going to go by now. We were almost 30.

has been really wanted to come back to Scotland because he was, you know, wanting to put down roots. And I said, OK, OK, we can go back to Scotland. But can we just not can we just go somewhere really like wild and somewhere we’ve never been before in Scotland? So we did. We came to the Shetland Islands, which is as far away, like as north as you can go. It’s an

Jason Elkins (24:11.257)
You

Jason Elkins (24:24.492)
yeah.

Genevieve White (24:29.344)
Archipelago in the middle of the North Sea, almost as close to Norway as it is to Scotland. And we had a completely new start and then we had children, we had a family and basically, yeah, so I did a bit of teaching when the children were young, but not too much. And then I ended up doing freelance writing for years, but it was writing that kind of came from the teaching, so it was educational writing.

So I did that, but I’ll the odd bit of… Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (24:58.577)
I’m curious, want to stop you real quick because I want to, was this a, it sounded like what I heard was, this is a compromise. Okay, we can go back to Scotland, but we’re going to go to the, and was, so was he, was he on the kind of more the end of like, let’s go live it. was like, it Glasgow or, I don’t know, I’m trying to think of places in Scotland, but was he,

Genevieve White (25:10.323)
Yeah it was. Yeah, it was very much a compromise.

Jason Elkins (25:25.519)
Was there, did that take a little bit of convincing for him to go to the Shatlands?

Genevieve White (25:29.202)
Well, think, I mean, I think as it happened, it didn’t really, because we got, we were pretty kind of, well, I kind of skimmed over an important detail in the story. So we came home and we were… So we’d made this decision and I’d said my bit about wanting to go somewhere remote. And then we came back and we had no money because we hadn’t saved anything all through our 20s because we were just having fun and traveling.

Jason Elkins (25:38.897)
huh. They always do. Let’s pull it out. Let’s get it.

Genevieve White (25:56.878)
And then we realised that we were expecting our first baby but we didn’t even have a home. And then a job came up in Shetland and I was like, that’s it, that’s the place I want to go. But we had to, we had no choice because we were desperate. So we moved here and…

Jason Elkins (26:12.833)
So you weren’t trying to stay away from his family or your family or anything like that? They might be listening, so we don’t…

Genevieve White (26:16.27)
no, no, no, not at all. But I do, I do think… I doubt it. I think we were, I think we were both very close with our families, but I think we just got that kind of, you know, being so far away for so long, we just had that kind of distance, you know, we just, we just were used to kind of doing things for ourselves and being very independent. yeah, and we…

Jason Elkins (26:44.613)
Get that? I can relate.

Genevieve White (26:45.588)
We, we, yeah, yeah. Once, once, once the babies came along, we did actually, did, being honest, I did really miss, you know, having grannies and grandparents nearby, but we’d made our bed and we just, we decided to just keep lying in it. And it’s…

Jason Elkins (27:02.447)
So you’re still there in the shuttles? Awesome, very cool, wow. Okay.

Genevieve White (27:05.614)
Yes, we’re still there. So that’s, 20 years now. So anyway, yeah, the link is with the story now. we’d lived there and the children, we’d thought about moving away again and going to different places, but the children were really happy. This is a lovely place to bring up kids. And I’d been writing and that was all great. And then, yeah, the children were just about grown up and I was thinking.

I was now by now in my mid-40s and I was thinking maybe this could be the new chapter. And then two things happened, Covid happened, obviously, and at the same time I realised I was surprisingly expecting another baby. Yeah. Yeah, well, what else was there to do?

Jason Elkins (27:53.394)
Oh, I think that happened to a few people during COVID. In the Shetlands. I say that jokingly, but honestly, actually kind of, if you don’t mind, I’m guessing most of the people listening to this have not been to the Shetlands. Probably a lot of them have not been to Scotland. I have not.

What should we know about the Shetlands? Because all I really know is there’s cute little horses, ponies, called Shetland ponies, and that’s about all I really know. So what should our listeners know about the Shetlands? Here’s your Chamber of Commerce speech.

Genevieve White (28:31.05)
it is, it’s a fantastic place to live. Yeah, what can I say? It’s, the community is fantastic. It’s a wonderful community spirit. So there’s probably in total, spread over the islands, there’s probably about 20 odd thousand. So it’s,

Jason Elkins (28:45.019)
How big of a community is it?

Jason Elkins (28:52.132)
Okay.

Genevieve White (28:54.7)
And because it’s so far away from everywhere else, like if you go to some of the other islands in Scotland that are nearer the mainland, there aren’t very many facilities. But because we’re so far away, we’ve got to have everything. So we’ve got a good few leisure centres, we’ve got really good cinema, you know, so you’ve got supermarkets. Once my sister, the first time my sister came to visit me here, I opened her suitcase, I went to get something and I thought she dropped a bank. She had like…

like so much money in there I said, why have you got all this money? And she said, I didn’t think there’d be banks. So I just brought like all my money. Yeah. So, no, there’s banks. So there’s everything. There’s everything you need. It’s just very, very remote. It’s beautiful. So we have what’s called the simmer dim that in summer, the days are very long. It doesn’t get properly dark. Obviously the flip side of that is at the moment we’ve just, we’re just…

Jason Elkins (29:29.958)
or an ATM. Well.

Jason Elkins (29:51.217)
It’s very dark in the winter.

Genevieve White (29:53.134)
It’s very, very dark, yeah. And it’s very hard. It’s very, very windy, cold, dark. The winters are not fun. But we do have these amazing fire festivals and it’s fire festival season at the moment. So that’s the community’s way of dealing with this long period of darkness is getting together and dressing up and carrying torches around. So there’s lots to keep you going even through the winter, even though the winters are tough.

And think for, and the wildlife is fantastic. You know, you can spot orcas, seals, otters, the water, if you were brave enough to go in, some people are, is crystalline. The sea is beautiful. You can, I live in the main town, but five minutes walk and you feel like you’re on the end of the earth. I mean, it’s a lovely place.

Jason Elkins (30:40.901)
How often do you get people asking, do they have cars there? Does that question ever come up?

Genevieve White (30:48.494)
It’s not a question I’ve heard recently. I have heard some… I have… you do get cars, yeah, because you would need cars because the weather’s really, like, really pretty dreadful and the public transport isn’t very good. So, yeah, people have cars.

Jason Elkins (30:52.273)
Yeah, just just guys like me that are just totally clueless and just want to end it

Jason Elkins (31:05.2)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (31:09.645)
Okay, well, I am one of those types. I’m not afraid to ask questions, fortunately. So sometimes it feels silly, but because because when you said 20,000 when you said 20,000 people, that’s about 19,000 people more than I would have guessed. So I have no idea.

Genevieve White (31:15.978)
No!

Genevieve White (31:25.836)
Yeah, no, it’s, it’s, yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I didn’t really know anything about Shetland before I moved here, so why should you? You know, my sister didn’t know anything.

Jason Elkins (31:33.809)
Did it, I mean, everything changes, I get that, but I’m just curious, has that been a pretty steady population increase or was it like that when you got there or has it changed a lot?

Genevieve White (31:44.178)
There was a really… It’s actually starting to… I think it’s starting to go down a little bit now. There was a huge boom in the 1970s, I think, with oil, a big oil boom. And then it really kind of exploded. And that’s where we got lots of money. And that’s where all of these amazing facilities came from, because before that it was very kind of rural and quite poor. But yeah, mean, think a lot of people are surprised when they…

come here, just how well developed it is, even compared to mainland Scotland. We really, we do pretty well. It’s a great, yeah, great place to live. There we go. I’ve done my bit to sell Shetland, if anyone’s…

Jason Elkins (32:25.487)
No, that’s very good. That’s very good. The visit Shetland check will come soon. I’ll send that out right over to you, I’m sure. You probably have. probably have. I suspect you have more influence with the travel world than probably most of the people that live on the island. I would guess. I don’t know. Maybe.

Genevieve White (32:31.18)
Yeah, huge whole thing. I’ve earned it.

Genevieve White (32:44.65)
Well, actually do, some of my work is actually writing for Promote Shetland. So I am used to, Promote Shetland is like the organisation that attracts people here. So I do quite a lot of praising Shetland, but it comes from the heart because Shetland’s been really good to me and my family. I love it here.

Jason Elkins (32:50.609)
okay.

Jason Elkins (32:59.729)
Yeah, I could tell. I could tell that. And make sure that the folks over at Promote Shetland hear the episode. Make sure you’re doing your part, not just writing copy. It’s very fascinating. There’s a few more questions I’m going to have, we’re going to get back to you. But I really, like, what I heard was, you know, early 20s, you and your husband come here, started traveling around, teaching, all this stuff.

Genevieve White (33:07.886)
Like, well, maybe get a bonus.

Jason Elkins (33:28.217)
What were you thinking in high school? Was that something that was even on your radar? Did you always have that kind of desire to go see the world or what were you like in high school? Probably writing a lot, weren’t you?

Genevieve White (33:36.396)
Yeah. In high school, was, yeah, I was always writing. I mean, even in, yeah, even like in like in primary school, elementary school, I guess you’d say I was, I was, I was writing about what I wanted to do and I always wanted to travel the world, except back then the only slight difference was I wanted, it was a convent school I went to, so I wanted to be a nun traveling the world. So the nun part didn’t really.

Jason Elkins (33:47.899)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (33:56.945)
You did.

Jason Elkins (34:04.241)
do they do that?

Genevieve White (34:06.926)
I kind of thought I could be a kind of missionary nun helping people. So yeah, that was my plan as a young girl. And then as I got a little bit older, I mean, I think I just, I was slightly rebellious. I wasn’t always as good at school as I could have been. But the writing and reading was a constant. mean, being really into books, being really into writing. I don’t know, I didn’t have any, I don’t remember having any set.

Jason Elkins (34:08.653)
Yeah, well that’s true. Yeah, that’s true.

Genevieve White (34:36.942)
career ideas, I actually sometimes found some of the career options a little bit depressing. I couldn’t ever really see myself in a 95. I went to university and in reflection, probably shouldn’t have gone to university because I was just a bit restless and a bit naughty and a bit of a party animal and didn’t really work very hard. And I ended up, I ended up dropping out to go much to my parents’ horror. They were so disappointed in me, bless them.

Jason Elkins (34:55.407)
Ha ha ha!

Genevieve White (35:04.79)
I ended up going and pitching a tent in a little farm in the south of England, having dropped out of university and picking strawberries and feeling so happy and thinking, this is how I want to live my life. I am so not interested in any of the material trappings and this is just, I want to be kind of free spirit. But then in the end, like this was a few years later. So this was actually like a little break in the middle of the twenties. I did go back and

I did a year at university just to finish off and get my degree because I was realising that I couldn’t get the teaching jobs, I couldn’t travel as much as I wanted without a degree. So I did it in the end. was very, yeah, I wouldn’t say I even have a career trajectory, it’s just been very serendipitous and making it up as I go along really.

Jason Elkins (35:55.782)
You know, as I listen to you, I’m thinking of some of our mutual friends and contacts that you’ve spent time with. And I think…

probably Peter Siam and Chris Torres, think both sound very familiar, their stories, your story, a bunch of people, a bunch of people that we work with mutually and it’s pretty cool. I love that and that’s why I enjoy doing this conversation so much, because I’m like, my gosh, you sound so much like me.

Genevieve White (36:12.546)
Yes!

Genevieve White (36:26.652)
Ha ha.

Jason Elkins (36:27.651)
I’m still doing that no real career trajectory, 52 traveling full time. No real plans, so.

Genevieve White (36:33.944)
But you’ve done so many amazing things. when I’m listening to the intro of your podcast, I’m always like, what? Just like all of these different things you’ve done. It’s amazing.

Jason Elkins (36:42.117)
Well, yeah, cool things, but it definitely is not a trajectory. There’s none of those things that turned into a trajectory. It’s more like just a scattered shot. You know, you shoot a shotgun and little pellets go every different direction. That’s pretty much my career trajectory, but I like it. I’ve been very, very fortunate. And yeah.

Genevieve White (36:57.454)
You

Genevieve White (37:03.31)
Is there a kind of golden thread that goes through it? Something that you can see, what is it then?

Jason Elkins (37:09.061)
Yeah, yeah, it’s, I figured out a few years ago that my highest value over anything and the thing that tends to impact my choices is shared experiences, which is probably pretty common for people in, know, the work in this space. It’s about shared experiences. I just, I think experiences and especially when they’re shared with other people, either, either,

loved ones or honestly just I enjoy sharing experience with guides, strangers, people on the bus. Anytime something interesting happens and there’s someone around me to share it with I just I thrive in that. So that’s kind of been the common thread with you know I had a hot air balloon ride business I was a fly fishing guy you know all those things were kind of kind of that I would say.

Was there anybody in your life when you were younger that was traveling that inspired you or a crazy aunt or uncle that was traveling the world and that planted that seed or where do think that came from?

Genevieve White (38:14.22)
No, my family were very much not travellers. I think probably it came from books, from reading and that was where I got all of my ideas from. My family, my dad in particular, he was great from from birth onwards at reading to me, reading my stories and I think it all came from

from the childhood love of books that just grew and that was how I explored the world. Yeah, my family weren’t travellers at all. They were all very much stayed put where they were. What about… Yeah, two little sisters. Well, they’re not little anymore, obviously. They’ll almost be my age. They will.

Jason Elkins (38:54.449)
Okay, what about, did you have some siblings?

Jason Elkins (39:04.027)
They’ll always be little to you. My brother will always be my little brother. I get it. I’m curious, did either one of them have that wanderlust as well or do anything with that?

Genevieve White (39:16.448)
Yeah, one of them very much did and does. So the middle sister, she has been everywhere. She has been all over the shop and she is now settled in Edinburgh, but her partner is Spanish, they’re often back and forth to Seville where he’s from. But yeah, she has been, and she is, I mean…

Yeah, I mean, you don’t know me that well yet, but I’m flaky. But my sister is the flakiest person you could ever meet. And everywhere she goes, she has these like hilarious travel disasters. And I mean, I don’t know how her friends put up with her. She always travels with the same group of really good friends that she’s had since they were at school together. And they have spent so many holidays traveling through countries to the embassy because she’s lost her passport.

Jason Elkins (39:48.977)
you

Genevieve White (40:10.67)
because every time she travels anywhere she loses her passport. But yeah, she’s a big traveller. My sister.

Jason Elkins (40:18.097)
That’s very cool. Do you think, I’m just curious, like was she inspired by reading as well or was she inspired by you? just trying to, I was just kind of interested in how people end up doing that when other people around them don’t. Like, you know, cause that happens.

Genevieve White (40:31.286)
Yeah, think we’re quite different, although we get on very, very well. We’re quite different. she’s just somebody who just goes where the wind blows her. I think often it’s just like her friends will suggest it and she’ll just say, yeah, okay. And her group of friends, actually none of them have ever settled down or have partners. So they’re kind of…

you know there’s a certain freedom that comes with that so they’re all free but it’s a friend’s are just like so collect shall we should we go to to Morocco yeah let’s go off the old so yeah but they’ve they’ve done all sorts of sorry

Jason Elkins (41:10.245)
I think I’d like to get into her friend group. I want to meet more people like that. I meet them when I travel, it’s… Yeah, honestly, they’re usually quite a bit younger than I am at this point. It’s very, very cool. Could you mention that you wanted to be a nun, a traveling nun?

Genevieve White (41:16.014)
Me too!

Genevieve White (41:24.942)
yeah, yeah, no, they’re great bunch. They’re a great bunch, these guys.

Jason Elkins (41:40.113)
Definitely the writing thing was a big thing and you said there were some other careers. Yeah, it just kind of sounded, I can’t remember if you used the word depressing or sad or I don’t remember what word you used, but did travel writing ever pop into your head? Like go be a travel writer or a journalist or something like that?

Genevieve White (41:48.107)
Yes.

Genevieve White (41:57.774)
Hmm, I think I did kind of think about travel writing. mean, I think I remember when I was in Hungary and Romania, I did submit a few pieces that got published to different newspapers like the Guardian Weekly, I had stuff in. no, mean, thinking of, I never really thought of doing that as a career.

And journalism, well actually yes, I did end up for a while when it wasn’t big scale journalism, but I edited a local magazine, Shetland Life, for a couple of years. And that was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. Two years of my life. Yeah, that was 2016 to 2018. So yeah, 10 years ago.

Jason Elkins (42:50.289)
I see the look on your face, you’re smiling, you’re reminiscing. What was wonderful about that?

Genevieve White (42:56.694)
Well, was just I was given free rein with the magazine. The magazine was kind of dying when I was given it to take over. The readership were literally dying because it was quite an old Persian’s magazine. it had this…

Jason Elkins (43:13.009)
And you got them to read anyway? Tell me how you managed that.

Genevieve White (43:23.822)
you know, little seance here and there. No, so my remit was basically, you know, you have to make this magazine more appealing to the young community, to everybody, because it had this very foosty image and it was very, was just quite dry and it just wasn’t bringing people in. So it was just such a challenge and I love a challenge. yeah, I just, it was just my baby. I think my…

Jason Elkins (43:26.811)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (43:51.67)
older two children by then, they were kind of not needing me quite as much. They were maybe, you know, 10, 11, you know, that kind of age, more independent, and I just threw myself.

Jason Elkins (43:58.834)
Independent. Wait, in the the Shatlands they’re more independent. Yeah, where are gonna go? They’re not gonna go far. If you’re in Chicago, you’re 24 still living at home with your mom making your sandwiches and peeling the crust off. I don’t know, I’m picking on Chicago today. I don’t know why.

Genevieve White (44:05.934)
We’re very Spartan here. We just put them onto the hillside and if they don’t die they’re fine, they can go forth. Exactly!

Genevieve White (44:24.462)
Yeah, you are! What poor people in Chicago! you

Jason Elkins (44:27.265)
Anyway, alright. boy, everybody’s picking on the US right now. I don’t know why that is. We’re not gonna go there. see now I totally lost my train of thought. But actually, yeah, I have no idea where. yeah, yeah. How long ago was that that you were editing the magazine?

Genevieve White (44:49.326)
It was two years I did it from 2016 to 2018. So yeah.

Jason Elkins (44:55.537)
Okay, with all the modern technology, most newspapers and magazines did not survive that. I’m just curious, is that one still around? Has it gone digital? Did you help it go digital? What happened?

Genevieve White (45:04.542)
No, no, after I left, there was another editor who took it over and she did like, she really carried on. She did a great job as well. I think she edited it for about a year, but then it was, mean, the reason I left was it was just a huge job. Although it was a hugely enjoyable job, it was a huge job and not very much money and it was just not sustainable. So for the same reason as me, she left it and I think they just realized then we’re not.

Jason Elkins (45:26.918)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (45:33.902)
We can’t carry on. Yeah, exactly.

Jason Elkins (45:34.575)
The writing was on the wall, wasn’t it? Because now, like if right now we were to look back and say, you can have an opportunity to be an editor of a magazine and help get the readership up and all that stuff, you’d be like, I don’t think so. I don’t think the timing’s very good for that. Unless you go digital.

Genevieve White (45:51.052)
Yeah, I know. Well, probably if I… Yeah, probably if I’d been a bit less optimistic and naive, might have, even then in 2016, had second thoughts, but I was just like, yes, I can do it. I loved it. And we did, we did. We got so much lovely feedback from the community. So much, so much fun. I mean, even just I loved putting the covers together, you know, because that was the…

Jason Elkins (46:04.571)
But you enjoyed it, so it doesn’t matter. It sounds like it was a great thing. Yeah.

Genevieve White (46:19.296)
a big part of it and I’m not a hugely visual person but just so every month I decided every month would have a theme and I’d build the content around that and people were just so willing to contribute and help because it was a community magazine and yeah I just look back on it as just this very fun creative period although it was very tiring and you know exhausting and full on I just loved it.

Jason Elkins (46:43.771)
We should discuss where in the timeline your current business kind of got started. that after the magazine or just you just tell me when did it get started and the creative part because you mentioned the creative you really enjoyed the creativity and I’m imagining that you could apply a lot of that to what you’re doing now with just even emails because an email needs some sort of visual generally I don’t know maybe I’m wrong but so tell me tell us about that.

Genevieve White (46:55.896)
That’s…

Genevieve White (47:05.42)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (47:12.878)
Well, OK, so in 2020 I had my third child and that corresponded with Covid and I think really at that stage, at that stage I was just, was still, I wasn’t really doing, I was doing a little bit of live, live teaching, but mostly writing. And I think I was just, I just felt like I needed a new direction. I just wanted to do something completely different. I think it was partly to do with Covid, it was partly to do with having a new child and

you know, everything. So I was just like, want to do something different. I don’t want to be doing this educational stuff for the rest of my life. So I heard about Ikigai. Have you heard of, you’ll have heard of Ikigai? It’s a Japanese principle.

Jason Elkins (47:55.43)
I’m not super, I’m not gonna pretend to be familiar. yeah, yeah, okay. How you think I am? Go ahead, please tell me.

Genevieve White (47:59.15)
So it’s Japanese principle and you have to think about what you like doing, what you love doing, what you can do, what the world needs and what’s the other thing? What they will pay you for! Yes, that’s it, that’s exactly it.

Jason Elkins (48:11.761)
what they will pay you for. I think it wasn’t what they pay. Yeah, I do. I have heard of that. I’ve ignored that most of my life. I should probably look into it, but go ahead.

Genevieve White (48:22.789)
Well, yeah, it’s quite fun if you’re kind of stuck, if you’re at a crossroads. It doesn’t sound like you are a crossroads. It sounds like you’re very happy, but I was definitely at crossroads. So first of all, I just, I thought, okay, what do I love? And you know, travel, even though I hadn’t traveled for a long time, I loved the idea of traveling. I loved reading about traveling and I love writing. I love interacting with people, sharing stories, storytelling. So that was easy.

can I do was super easy because I am rubbish at most things. You know, I have very, very, very small skillset. I can’t cook. I can’t drive very well. I can’t do anything that involves dexterity balance. I’m not scientific. I’m not good with numbers. I can write and I’m good at encouraging people. I’m good at communicating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was easy.

Jason Elkins (49:13.209)
and communicate, just communicate in many ways, right? Yeah.

Genevieve White (49:18.862)
And then what does the world need? Well, I could see just from, you know, looking at travel websites, a lot of them were uninspiring. Just the very fact that whenever we go on a family holiday, I say to my husband, I’ll pay. But can you do all the booking? Because I just can’t stand it. It’s just the website. So many travel websites are just like copies bad. The words hurt me. are just so…

I just don’t like it. So then I realised then, oh, you know, I think we really, I could really help people to do better. People in the travel and tourism industry, I really feel that there’s a need there. I could help them to communicate better and just connect more with potential guests. But I didn’t really know very much about it. I didn’t really know. I didn’t have any contacts in the travel industry at all.

I live like in the middle of nowhere. So… Yeah, exactly. So I was, know, the odds were stacked against me, but I am very optimistic and I just decided to, I applied for a local business grant and got it. So that enabled me to get a website. And this is going to sound very vain.

Jason Elkins (50:18.961)
It’s hard to go run around and a bunch of them, isn’t it?

Genevieve White (50:44.546)
get brand photos because I thought I want to have some nice photographs so I like people who like see these photos and think she looks nice so I bet people thought I was crazy

Jason Elkins (50:48.997)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:53.125)
I don’t think that’s Bain. I think that’s pretty smart is somebody that works in communications. Sounds like a good idea. Maybe some people are listening to this that probably ought to take the same coaching. All right, so you got some great photos.

Genevieve White (50:58.19)
Well, it felt a little bit vain. I got some great photos and I just put myself on LinkedIn. And at the time I was also paying for a business coach. And she said to me, I was like, well, this is great. I’ve got my website. I’m happy with it. I’ve got these lovely photos, but well, I don’t know anybody. It’s not like I’ve got this baby. I can’t just like jet off to the world travel market.

you know, bye, see you later. So she was like, well, she was like, well, why don’t you, why don’t you do a LinkedIn live? Why don’t you interview somebody in tourism? And I was like, well, I don’t think anybody will want to speak to me, but okay, we’ll try it. So on LinkedIn, I put out a little post and I said, I’d love to speak to anyone. I was completely unknown. Nobody knew me at all.

I’d love to speak to you if you’ve got an interesting travel story. I’m thinking of starting. Oh, I didn’t say I was very confidently written. I’m starting this travel series, but I really wasn’t confident at all inside. Anyway, this lovely guy on the Pali trekking guide got in touch with me and said he wanted to speak to me. So that was the first one that we did. I got, I mean, was, I couldn’t believe it that

Jason Elkins (52:03.973)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

Jason Elkins (52:21.594)
school.

Genevieve White (52:21.62)
All of these, I was just this like little wifey sitting in my kitchen, unknown. And there was all these people listening to our conversation and writing nice comments. And it gave me a huge boost. I mean, was so clueless that first broadcast that we were doing it on StreamYard and the comments come down the side, you when people comment and say who they are and where they’re watching from. And I didn’t even realise that was a feature. So I had my son.

on my phone and he was handwriting the comments and passing them to me.

Jason Elkins (52:57.231)
I love it.

Genevieve White (52:58.158)
It’s just like… And I still watch that video sometimes and I laugh because there’s this bit halfway through the broadcast and you see my face because I suddenly realise the comments are on the side and I say, go away, I don’t need you anymore. This is amazing. And then I start reading all these comments and you can just see my face light up because there’s like all these people watching it. So that was just so lovely. And then from there, I just went on. It’s been going for two years now. And actually, just like you were saying before, I’ve met…

Jason Elkins (53:09.339)
Yep.

Genevieve White (53:28.598)
so many people and that is really, I mean, without hardly ever going to any conferences, I’ve been to a couple. That’s just, I’ve just made some amazing friends really, I would say. you know, I’ve got Martin, who you’ve spoken to before, Martin Rosenberg. I think he’s actually planning to come to Shetland to visit next summer. And I met one of my guests in London in spring last year.

Jason Elkins (53:42.863)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (53:53.173)
cool.

Genevieve White (53:58.316)
It’s been lovely. I’ve got work, so…

Jason Elkins (54:02.129)
And you know, I’m curious what your thoughts, but definitely COVID was kind of an inspiration for me to make some big life changes as well. And the ability to work.

Online with people you don’t you know people are just so much more open to jumping on video I mean, I’m almost talking old news now. I know that Like right now people like yeah, we’ve been doing it for a while Jason You just catching on to this but but that really was the moment when when you could reach out to somebody for the first time and say hey Let’s you get on your computer. I’ll get on my computer. We’ll talk about whatever We’ll share it with whoever wants to listen to it Which is basically my podcast my podcast in your and what you

Genevieve White (54:20.312)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (54:44.443)
doing with your Lincoln lives it sounds so similar I think I think we both got the same similar idea about the same time and it’s so beautiful that we’re able to do that and if it was 2018 I just don’t know if it could have could have done it the same way

Genevieve White (54:55.918)
It is.

I don’t think so. No, I think you’re absolutely right. It’s just easy now. are less, I think there was maybe like a, maybe people were more self-conscious about being online for things like that. And then there was the tech. Most people wouldn’t think twice about going on a Zoom call, but people would be anxious about handling the tech. Nobody’s really got those anxieties anymore. So yeah, it’s just easy.

And it just democratises everything as well because you can be a parent at home with your kid buzzing around in the background and people really don’t mind anymore. It’s good.

Jason Elkins (55:40.242)
Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty cool. And we’ve got the technology. I don’t know if you’re still doing it all pretty much yourself. I don’t know if you’ve been able to hire your son full time as a tech person to help with the production stuff. But you know, I’ve been doing it all myself. I had no idea what I was doing when I started. Still sometimes don’t. But it’s just so cool though, you know, not just the…

Genevieve White (55:52.846)
You

Jason Elkins (56:03.301)
you know, finding people to have conversations with is, you know, is really pretty easy with the technology. You you book a, I think you and I had a Google Meet call or something, just to, you know, touch base the first time. And then, you know, I’ve got the editing software. I don’t have to do a lot of editing and then I can.

Genevieve White (56:14.155)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (56:21.809)
uploaded to a server that pushes it out to all these players and it’s been so much fun because I really like the website design stuff. That’s what I really like. So I’ve got my own website and I’ve got content to put on it every week. I get a new piece of content to put on it. So it’s just so much fun for me and hopefully for anybody that’s still listening. I trust it is. So here’s something interesting. Like when you do a live, can you see how many people are like watching?

Genevieve White (56:38.478)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (56:51.844)
You can, I’ve never done one.

Genevieve White (56:53.806)
You can see how many people sign up to it and then afterwards you can look at the analytics. You can’t see at the time how many people are there while you’re actually live, but you can see everyone’s comments and you can get a sense of, well, not a sense of how many people are watching because some people don’t comment, but you can get a sense of, there’s a good crowd here today. And then afterwards you can look at the analytics and see how many people were watching you live.

Jason Elkins (57:19.441)
Do the people and the people log in to watch you live? Is there any sort of indication like 30 people watching right now, two people watching? Do the viewers see how many other people are listening or watching? No?

Genevieve White (57:28.85)
No, no, I don’t think so. No, I don’t think so. Which I think is quite good in a way. I certainly feel like, well, say you had a session and not many people came, it might be demoralizing if there was like two people. Yeah. No, you don’t know. And I don’t think anybody knows. And I think the analytics are just private to me. But I think that if you, I mean,

Jason Elkins (57:44.753)
That’s where I’m going with this.

Genevieve White (57:58.412)
you know, as it’s grown, there’s been a few recently, it’s like a flurry of comments and you just can’t even read all of the ones that come up and then you feel really good, like there’s a good buzz. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:11.857)
I want to give you kudos for that because to be honest with you, I guess I pretty much knew that live was an option. I mean, you can do a live and still post it as a podcast. honestly, like I think you have.

big cojones can I say that to put yourself out there and do the live like that because that was that’s exactly what would be in the back of my head especially the first handful probably by the time I got to ten is when it would have been the hardest is like my gosh I’m putting myself out there live if I say anything dumb I can’t edit it out it’s just there you know

Genevieve White (58:44.91)
Mm-hmm.

Genevieve White (58:50.876)
yeah, yeah. mean, yeah, I’ve, I’ve, mean, yeah, I’ve had some, like even the last one I did. So, I wanted to speak about, my guest, how she was revolutionizing. I said it right there, but on the day I was like, revolution, I just couldn’t say it. And it was so embarrassing and yeah, it’s live. So you just, I just ended up going, and then just moving on and, yeah.

Jason Elkins (59:05.957)
Huh?

Jason Elkins (59:09.777)
You

Genevieve White (59:19.18)
And you never know. You never know.

Jason Elkins (59:19.953)
But I guess you never get bogged down in editing, do you? It’s like, well, it is what it is.

Genevieve White (59:25.89)
You never get, yeah. And I just tend to, yeah, and you just leave it. So like, there was one session, there was one session in October and the day before, something happened, I got this like condition, it’s called Bell’s Palsy. So one side of my face just went, and I was like, well, I didn’t want to let my guest down because I knew she was excited and she was prepped. But in a way, again, it was live, so you just have to do it.

Jason Elkins (59:41.657)
yeah, familiar with it,

Jason Elkins (59:52.15)
huh.

Genevieve White (59:55.68)
And yeah, I didn’t then have to look at it and like look at my face and edit it and have all that to deal with. I was just like, well, it’s done. I don’t ever need to watch that video of myself. So yeah.

Jason Elkins (59:56.251)
Yeah, that’s…

Jason Elkins (01:00:08.561)
I kind of like that. I would have some, you know, some of my own self-limiting beliefs and posture syndrome, stuff like that, that would have come up early on that you managed to just push through. Cause you had them too. It’s I can resonate, but you actually went like, okay, I don’t really know that many people. I’m going to go on and do live interviews of tour operators. And I’m like, holy cow, you must add a really good business coach for it’s just your personality. I’m sure it’s a combination of the two.

Genevieve White (01:00:36.488)
I did have a very good business coach. Yeah, she was amazing. I would never have thought of doing that. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:00:38.427)
because and I also recognize a lot of the guests that come on my show because you know we’ll do a little pre-conversation just to kind of you know make sure we’re able to communicate that type of stuff make sure that you know if they really want to do this and that they’re not terribly terrified and even if they are we still do it and we get through it but but yeah you know people quite often will be like

you know, because sometimes I post some videos or we might post a clip or something and people are worried about how they look and their lighting in their room and they get kind of worked up about that and then they ask me, well Jason, what questions are we gonna go over? Can you send me a list of questions? And you know this as well as any guest that’s ever been on this show, there is no list of questions. And for some people that makes them nervous. So I can just imagine, like the people that are nervous to come on a recorded podcast.

to try and get them to go on a live on LinkedIn, which is where all their colleagues are. Wow. What do you think? mean, what have you learned? You’ve learned a lot, but what, I don’t know. What do you say on that? Do you still have people that are like, yeah, I’d love to talk to you, but I don’t want to do a live thing on LinkedIn or does that come up ever?

Genevieve White (01:01:37.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Genevieve White (01:01:51.07)
I think a lot of the time, well, yeah, some of them have been regular audience members, so they know. And if they haven’t, I say, well, just, you know, watch a few of the sessions so you can see what it’s like. You’ll see it’s very, you know, relaxed. And then some of them, bless them, they are really nervous, but they come on, they feel the fear, they do it. And then at the end, they’re like, that was so good.

Jason Elkins (01:02:14.619)
they do it anyway. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Genevieve White (01:02:19.724)
And they’re buzzing and yeah, and they’ve enjoyed it. And they usually, they say, just forgot. I just thought I was talking to you, which is lovely.

Jason Elkins (01:02:20.161)
Is it cool?

Jason Elkins (01:02:29.583)
Yeah, yep. Do you think it’s part of why you continue? I know it’s part of why I continue doing it. I’ll tell you because doing a recorded podcast, there is no immediate feedback at all. It’s just you and the person. Fortunately, I really like chatting and we have a lot of amazing conversations. But at the end of it…

the only kind of validation you get is usually your guest. You know, it’s like, wow, I was really scared to do that. Or this was my first one. You made it so easy. And it just like, it feels so good to have at least one person say that right off the bat. Cause then when you push it out into the podcast world, people don’t generally comment much on podcasts. I wish they would, but it’s a, yeah. So that’s, that’s, that’s very, cool. What’s, what’s next for you? Do you have any?

Genevieve White (01:03:12.494)
Yeah.

Genevieve White (01:03:16.802)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:03:20.837)
Well, actually, you kind of touched on the use you mentioned maybe starting a new chapter after 20 years, I think it was. You mentioned something about a new chapter. I don’t know if you’ve already started that. What did that? What were you hinting at?

Genevieve White (01:03:31.756)
yeah, the new chapter was the business, I think. Was it the business? Yeah. Hmm, yeah, I think so. I think it was the business. yeah, yeah, I can’t remember. I think the new chapter was this business.

Jason Elkins (01:03:37.009)
It the business. Yeah, I think it, think it, okay.

I had a feeling you were getting ready. I had a feeling you were getting ready to say, know what, the kids are up and almost out or out or whatever. Let’s go sell all of our stuff and travel again or something. I thought you were going there, but.

Genevieve White (01:03:56.02)
That was, yeah, that maybe was, but then we had our third child. who’s five? But I think there will be really exciting times ahead because I can really work anywhere and my husband is a teacher and I’ll whisper this because probably I don’t want to see anyone listening. I’m trying to retire him because it’s very…

Jason Elkins (01:04:01.266)
right, right, right, right. Yep. Yeah, that was a new chapter. A little different.

Genevieve White (01:04:23.948)
like it’s a stressful job and he’s getting older. so we are, I would love it if we could maybe like five years from now, six years from now, he could retire and we could just go and, you know, do the whole digital nomad thing. And Flora will be, that’s her little girl. She will be, you know, old enough to, you know, do a little bit of world schooling. So that’s the plan.

Jason Elkins (01:04:25.841)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:04:33.21)
huh.

Jason Elkins (01:04:46.172)
Or she just old enough to turn out onto the step there in the Shetlands and she can fend for herself and she’s not gonna go far. You guys can come back and visit her every once in a while, you know, maybe in the winter so she’s not out there by herself. Yeah, yeah, let me know how that goes. I tried that with my youngest. It didn’t work so well. He came back to the… Anyway, I won’t go into that. Oh wow.

Genevieve White (01:04:50.254)
Yes!

Genevieve White (01:05:00.206)
Yeah, that’s a good plan. We’ll try that. We’ll let you know how it goes.

Genevieve White (01:05:12.014)
So the story about cutting the crusts off the sandwiches, was that from your own experience, Jason?

Jason Elkins (01:05:14.873)
We’ve discussed.

Jason Elkins (01:05:19.737)
Genevieve White (01:05:22.399)
Ha ha!

Jason Elkins (01:05:23.281)
I’m way too irresponsible to have a child come back and live with me. My son, when I started traveling, I’m like, you’re welcome to spend summers with me, we’re not in school, anytime, pretty much, just come hang out, but we’re gonna stay in Airbnbs, sometimes hostels, and we’re gonna eat street food, and…

gonna take chicken buses we’re not you know this is not gonna be and then I think he got he got to about 18 19 he’s like I think I’d rather just stay home with my friends and work a little bit get a job so

Genevieve White (01:05:46.531)
Genevieve White (01:05:52.89)
really? I would have… I would have… I was just thinking that sounds amazing. Well…

Jason Elkins (01:06:00.046)
I thought it was an amaze. And honestly it was. It was amazing. We spent three summers together. First summer was Guatemala, Mexico, mostly Guatemala, Mexico and Belize. Second summer was Southeast Asia, Malaysia and Thailand really.

stop in Japan. Third summer was really just mostly Columbia. So it was great. I mean we we went to some cool places and he’s funny because sometimes on the trips he’s kind of like I miss my mom, I miss my dog, miss my whatever, miss my friends and it wasn’t always fun for him. But what’s cool now is that you know now he’s working going to tech school and he’s like well dad maybe like when I get my job I can take some time off and you and I can go travel somewhere. And so he’s forgotten how miserable it was traveling with his dad.

So that’s good.

Genevieve White (01:06:50.094)
But I think, yeah, I think as they grow, it’s like different stages of your relationship and it changes. So yeah. that sounds cool.

Jason Elkins (01:06:58.725)
Yeah, yeah, and actually, yeah, and actually, mean, that’s doing that was a lot better for me for and for him, I believe his mom might not agree. She’s listening. She’s going, Jason, you’re full. You’re just justifying your own personal choices and whatever. But I can tell you that before I started traveling.

Genevieve White (01:07:09.121)
You

Genevieve White (01:07:13.518)
You

Jason Elkins (01:07:18.329)
the summers, you know, when he wasn’t in school, looked a lot like me. I was doing real estate for a while, which is so weird because it’s so not my like it’s I’m I’m Mr. Minimalist, minimalist, like shared experiences. And I did real estate for a while to try and make some people in my life happy. And anyway, it was so we spent a lot of weekends with me going to open houses and maybe we’d have a couple hours to hang out and.

Genevieve White (01:07:25.422)
yeah, doesn’t sound like you at all. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:07:43.792)
And it’s just like the summers, just really weren’t doing anything. So then when I started traveling and he started traveling with me when he had the opportunity, some Christmas breaks and some summer breaks, actually it was really for us, my relationship with him now is so much better than if I had stayed in Phoenix and we hung out in Phoenix, especially in the summer, because there’s nothing to do in the summer in Phoenix. But anyway, enough about me.

Genevieve White (01:08:02.702)
Yay. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, these experiences, these experiences are like a shared travel experience. It pushes you together, you know?

Jason Elkins (01:08:13.669)
Yeah, it’s that shared experience thing. it was probably why it was so intense for him is because my highest value is shared experiences. His highest value is…

Genevieve White (01:08:16.834)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:08:24.709)
Realistically is consistency. He’s one of those he likes his routine And I’m no let’s we’re gonna get up early we’re gonna get on a bus and we’re gonna go here and we’re gonna do this and we’re gonna be in a different Airbnb every few nights and and Who knows what we’re gonna eat or when we’re gonna eat it So it was a little stressful for him and I was getting frustrated cuz I’m like, my gosh Look where we were in Penang Island in Malaysia the food capital world, you know where he wanted to go eat McDonald’s He’s gonna be if he listens to this episode. He’s like dad. Did you really have to say that but

Genevieve White (01:08:28.664)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Genevieve White (01:08:49.728)
McDonald’s,

Jason Elkins (01:08:54.755)
I’m like we’re on Penang it’s like one of the food capitals of the world and you just want McDonald’s because he likes that consistency you know the routine and you know what you’re gonna get so it was it was so that’s what you get to look forward to maybe I don’t know depending on you you probably parent a little differently than I do or maybe not I don’t know but

Genevieve White (01:09:01.846)
you know what you’re gonna get, yeah. You’re not gonna be disappointed, yeah.

Genevieve White (01:09:11.694)
You

Genevieve White (01:09:16.81)
yeah, I don’t know.

Jason Elkins (01:09:19.727)
Let me ask you this, because we’ve discussed a bunch of different things all over the place, kind of like I mentioned before, the shotgun spread of pellets, just a bunch of different directions, kind of like, you know, it’s metaphor for life and the show definitely. But we’ve covered a lot of things, fascinating, fun conversation. But I want to ask you, what did I forget to ask you? Or what do wish I would have asked you? Or what do you want our listeners to know about you, the Shatlands?

Camping, comms and coaching, anything. What would you like them to know before we wrap up?

Genevieve White (01:09:51.182)
Oh gosh, oh that’s just such a tricky question. I’ve just enjoyed this conversation so much. Okay, honestly it’s been the most fun conversation. It’s Friday night here, it’s Friday night here, it’s 10 to 10 and I just feel like this is a great way to spend a Friday evening. It’s fun.

Jason Elkins (01:09:58.033)
Are you so sweet?

Jason Elkins (01:10:06.384)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:10:11.865)
Wow, I have not had a woman say that to me a very long time. you. Wow, okay. Keep going. Anything else?

Genevieve White (01:10:16.076)
Hahaha!

Genevieve White (01:10:20.974)
Yeah, you did. am right. So something something I could say. OK, so if you’ve enjoyed listening to this conversation and you’d like to hear more from me, you could sign up to my email list. I share stories from my life, my very boring life. But people do seem to enjoy the stories twice a week and there usually is some copywriting wisdom.

interwoven with the story, so you get a story and then it’s linked to some insight about copywriting specifically for travel and tourism. And it’s all very meta because I am writing these emails to connect with my readers, which seems to work, I must say. And in reading them, then, you know, you might learn the skills that you need to connect with your readers. So, yeah, that’s it. It’s maybe a bit pitchy, but…

I just had to see it.

Jason Elkins (01:11:19.153)
No, remember earlier when we were talking about how your readers get your emails and then they book a call and end up becoming clients. So they’re gonna get a lot out of the emails, but don’t be surprised if they also end up being one of your clients is what I got out of it. And I know that that’s, you’re not trying to be pitchy at all, but it’s pretty cool and obviously you’ve got such a great fun personality.

Genevieve White (01:11:34.401)
You

Jason Elkins (01:11:42.19)
If nothing else, if you haven’t seen her lives, definitely check that out. But I guess what I’m saying is if you get one of her emails and it says book a call, now you know kind of what to expect. It’s going to be fun. Nice, nice, fun conversation. not like because honestly, sometimes copywriting might sound a little bit might to some people intimidating, dry. I don’t know.

Genevieve White (01:12:04.258)
think it does. I kind of want to change the name altogether. Sometimes people also get it confused with copyright as an intellectual property and think that that’s what I work with and they’re like no that’s not what I do. So yeah I feel we need to think of a new sexy name for copywriting.

Jason Elkins (01:12:12.969)
Jason Elkins (01:12:22.129)
I heard one, you know, one place I had worked in the past, I was running their travel business, but it was a kind of retail mail order merchandising company. So they took copywriting very seriously, but they, they would use the term sales activist, but I don’t think that sounds good in our space. So we’re gonna need to come up with something different, we? Sounds horrible, doesn’t it?

Genevieve White (01:12:39.362)
don’t… Yeah, answers on a postcard from the listeners. What should we call copywriting? Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:12:45.969)
Yeah, exactly, you know and so we’re gonna have because you mentioned Signing up for LinkedIn getting on your news list and all that stuff We’re gonna have a list not a list a link right to your website in the show notes So anybody that’s listening us scroll down whether you’re on my website or one of the podcast players There’s a link click through that and connect with Jen Vieve and thank you so much. This is so much fun Thank you for sharing your Friday evening with me

Genevieve White (01:13:09.696)
No, thank you Jason. no, thank you, it’s been really lovely to talk with you.

Jason Elkins (01:13:16.166)
let’s do it again real soon okay and maybe if I maybe if I can get the conas big enough I’ll come on your live show that might be fun and scary at all all the same time I don’t know if I have anything to contribute but it would be fun all right sounds sounds good thank you so much I’ll chat with you real soon you have a great day good good night I should say good evening all right bye

Genevieve White (01:13:22.83)
I would love that. no, you are so invited. That would be amazing.

Genevieve White (01:13:36.63)
Yeah, thanks, Jason. Bye bye.

 

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