Guest Bio
Gerardo Niklitschek is the founder of ALSUR Expediciones and one of Patagonia’s most seasoned and respected adventure guides. With over 30 years of experience exploring the wild landscapes of southern Chile and Argentina, Gerardo leads unforgettable journeys into the heart of Patagonia. His deep environmental knowledge, cultural insight, and technical expertise create one-of-a-kind experiences for travelers. Gerardo is a certified Physical Education and Recreation Instructor with advanced training as a rafting, sea kayaking, and mountain guide. He has worked in some of the region’s most iconic protected areas, including Pumalín Park, Valle Chacabuco, Vicente Pérez Rosales, and Torres del Paine. Now, based full-time in Patagonia, Gerardo designs custom adventures through ALSUR Expediciones, specializing in trekking, horseback riding, kayaking, mountaineering, and wildlife trips.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, Jason Elkins interviews Gerardo Niklitschek, the founder of ALSUR Expediciones, about his journey in adventure tourism in Chile. Gerardo shares his early experiences in nature, the evolution of outdoor guiding in Chile, and the significant influence of Douglas Tompkins on conservation efforts. The conversation delves into the importance of sustainable tourism, challenges in building a successful team in the outdoor industry, and how Patagonia’s landscapes continue to captivate adventure travelers. Gerardo emphasizes the vital connection between adventure tourism and conservation in the region, showcasing Patagonia as a premier destination for eco-conscious adventurers.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Gerardo Niklitschek is the founder of ALSUR Expediciones – Specializing in adventure tourism in southern Chile.
- ✓ Patagonia is rapidly growing as a destination for adventure tourism – With more travelers seeking immersive nature experiences.
- ✓ Gerardo’s passion for nature began at a young age – His deep connection to the outdoors inspired his career as an adventure guide.
- ✓ Family support played a crucial role in his career – Even if they didn’t fully understand his passion for the outdoors.
- ✓ The outdoor guiding industry in Chile has evolved significantly – With more trained professionals now available.
- ✓ Douglas Tompkins played a significant role in conservation – His efforts have influenced Gerardo’s approach to sustainable tourism.
- ✓ Conservation is increasingly important to clients – Many are willing to pay more for eco-friendly and sustainable experiences.
- ✓ Building a successful team in outdoor tourism requires dedication – And a strong focus on training and community building.
- ✓ The future of adventure tourism in Chile looks promising – With growing interest in sustainable practices and eco-tourism.
What You’ll Find at ALSUR Expediciones
- ✓ Custom adventures that include trekking, horseback riding, kayaking, mountaineering, and wildlife tours
- ✓ A deep commitment to sustainable and eco-friendly tourism practices
- ✓ Expert guides with extensive experience in Patagonia’s most iconic regions
- ✓ An immersive travel experience that connects clients with nature and local cultures
- ✓ A passion for providing transformative outdoor experiences that respect the environment
👉 Visit ALSUR Expediciones Official Website to learn more about their unique Patagonia adventure experiences.
Learn more about ALSUR Expediciones and connect with Gerardo at:
https://alsurexpediciones.cl/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:00.923)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Excited today, we’ve got an interesting guest lined up for you. We’ve got Gerardo Niklitschek He is the owner and founder of Alsur Expediciones. Gerardo, I pronounce that mostly right?
Gerardo Niklitschek (00:19.862)
You pronounce it right.
Jason Elkins (00:21.757)
All right, very cool. We’re off to a good start then. Right before I pushed the button, I explained that your last name was a little bit different than some of the names I’ve seen. So I’m happy we were able to get that correct. So welcome to the show, Gerardo. Happy to have you here.
Gerardo Niklitschek (00:37.298)
yeah, well I’m so glad to be here with you finally because it’s been not easy, you know, to match the times in between both of us. But finally we did, finally here. So I’m very happy to, you know, share my story with you and the rest.
Jason Elkins (00:47.313)
Well, we did it.
Jason Elkins (00:58.257)
Well, yeah, absolutely. And we’re recording this in kind of May. And right before I pushed record, you’re explaining that your season is just kind of wrapping up now. So I imagine you’ve got all kinds of things going through your head and things to do. So I appreciate you taking a moment out of your day to spend it all here with us. So thank you.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:19.234)
You’re welcome. Yes, you’re right. We are we I’m in Chile right now in Puerto Varas is the beginning of the Patagonia from the north. And so we are ending our season in May. And now the winter is coming. And of course, you know, we are most most of the work we do is in summertime. So.
Jason Elkins (01:32.061)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:48.802)
So now it’s time for a little relax, which is not easy. You know, I mean, at least to get the idea of being relaxed, it’s kind of difficult, you know, because we are still, you know, we always doing something super active, you know, and, it’s time to rest a little bit and then do probably a different job, like being in ferries and visit some friends and.
Jason Elkins (01:53.415)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (02:00.327)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (02:16.353)
you know, advertise a little bit our products, et cetera, et cetera.
Jason Elkins (02:20.487)
Very cool. was going to ask you that. That was the next question I was going to ask you is, do you kind of continue on with the business you mentioned Ferias? kind of like fairs, festivals, or I guess, how would you describe that?
Gerardo Niklitschek (02:32.534)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I’m right now, well, you know, for many years I was in the field, you know, working as a guide. I still do some field work, but most of the time I do, in the winter, do promote our company and our trips.
and get to know new people like you in this case, for example. And also we visit some fair areas. We are associated with the ATTA. And for example, this year we are attending the summit in Natales, Puerto Natales in Chile in October, which is normally we go at least at one event.
Jason Elkins (03:03.953)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (03:29.102)
And last year we were in the United States. We were visiting Asheville in the Elevate, Asheville in the United States. And this year there’s another one in Denver, but we decided to go to the mains, know, Feria, which is the summit in Chile this year. And yeah, go ahead.
Jason Elkins (03:55.569)
Very cool.
Well, it’s going to ask, is this the first time that, so you mentioned the ATTA for anybody that’s not listening or isn’t familiar with that. That’s the Adventure Travel Trade Association. Is this the first time that they’ve done their world summit in Chile?
Gerardo Niklitschek (04:12.172)
Not really. first time actually that I met this organization was in my town, Puerto Varas, 10 years ago. so this is now is exactly 10 years and we’re doing it again, the summit. And I have to tell you that Chile in general has been growing so fast as a destination for adventure tourism.
Jason Elkins (04:21.173)
okay.
Gerardo Niklitschek (04:41.902)
and which really makes us proud, you know. And in 10 years, the people from ATTA and all the companies who will be attending, buyers and products, you know, will be surprised of the, you know, growing business, what it means, you know, the outdoor business in Chile. It’s a big community now.
Jason Elkins (05:08.039)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (05:12.51)
We are so happy that things are going pretty good, you know, and we got this, you know, How do you say it’s like the Oscars of the adventure tourism, which normally now has been in Chile for the last five, even, I guess, more years, you know, the people.
You know, vote for a destination of adventure tourism. In the last seven to eight years Chile has been the winner in those premise.
Jason Elkins (05:53.147)
I’m not surprised. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Chile. I’ve been to Puerto Varas probably a few times. And I think it was a while ago. was probably realistically 10 years ago since I was there last. just the variety, the people, everything. I mean, you’ve got so much going for you.
And when I started up this podcast, one of the first things I did is I went to the list of ATTA members, Adventure Travel Trade Association members, because I knew that that’s where I would find interesting people. I had participated in ATTA World Summit in Namibia, along quite a while ago.
don’t want to say how long, it was a while ago. And I just met a lot of like-minded people, a lot of interesting people. So when I went to ATTA and started looking through some of their current rosters, there are so many great operators in Chile. And actually, if you were to go through the list of our episodes, I think you’d see Chile very well represented on the Big World Made Small podcast. it’s no surprise that Chile is getting a lot of attention here over the last few years.
Gerardo Niklitschek (06:36.038)
Hahaha
Gerardo Niklitschek (07:03.52)
Yeah, that’s correct. And you’re right. I’ve seen some some colleagues, you know in You know, they’ve been with you and interviews with you and yeah, I recognize them and some of them are friend of mine Yeah And also well, you know this take me to
Jason Elkins (07:19.997)
I’m sure.
Gerardo Niklitschek (07:28.736)
of course my the way I start you know in Chile as an outdoor guy and long time ago you know this is
Jason Elkins (07:39.067)
Yeah, let’s go back because that’s exactly what I wanted to discuss with you is not so much what’s happening now, but how did you get from where you were to where you are now? How far back do we need to go to kind of understand that?
Gerardo Niklitschek (07:51.5)
Yeah, that’s something that, you know, when I regret and start thinking about the beginning, how everything start, you know, it’s kind of very difficult to understand right now for me, you because it was difficult. I mean, it wasn’t difficult, you know, if I see it now, it looks like impossible.
to do it now, you But, you know, I always enjoy nature when I was very young, 12 years ago. I mean, when I was 12 years, pretty much, I was always, you know, walking in the bushes, floating rivers on my own.
love osprey, you know, and natural osprey. And so I normally get lost in the forest and spend a week there, you know, with my tent and having fun in our nature, in our forest, our mountains.
Jason Elkins (09:04.378)
Was that in the Lake District area around Port DeVaris?
Gerardo Niklitschek (09:08.982)
Yes, yes, exactly, And it was difficult to find a guy, you know, or somebody who can really appreciate that and match with me about that, you know, feeling of being out, outdoors. So I started enjoying on my own.
You know, and being there in nature outdoors, you know, spending days, you know, in the mountains. And then, you know, I was, you know, talking about this to my personal friends, you know, and some of them like, I mean, that sounds cool. You know, like being in the forest and with a fire, tent, hot springs, fishing.
you know walking there on you know nobody there and and beside that the Chilean nature and Chilean mountains are really safe there’s nothing that can really hurt you you know so it was like okay you know next year let me know I mean I’ll go with you you know I’ll go with you so okay this you want to come come you know and and and this is how I get
you know, somehow connected with some people and the people loved what they what I was doing there. We had a great fantastic time. mean, definitely it was our the best time ever, you know, like being alone in nature. Don’t worry about anything. At that time, we didn’t have any phones. Remember, no, no cellular phones. So we were totally disconnected, connected with nature.
Jason Elkins (10:57.789)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (11:04.236)
You know, living a life that, you know, if now, now is people, it’s a dream for now. Now it’s a dream. Anybody, if I talk about this now for everybody, for the world, it’s like a dream. In the past, it was like a common for me, you know, like, okay, let’s do it. Vamos, you know, and let’s spend some time there and have fun. And the relationship, you know, in between my friends and myself, getting improved a lot too, you know.
The connection with the people is super strong, you know, because the Ruth, you know, to be there in, in, in a, it’s fantastic. So at the end, at the end, we, yeah.
Jason Elkins (11:45.181)
curious, Gerardo, I’m curious. What did your, tell me about your family, your parents. mean, were they encouraging this or where do you think this desire to go out in the woods and explore come from?
Gerardo Niklitschek (11:57.015)
No, no, no, not at all. Not at all. My parents, they suddenly, you know, they realized that I was in nature because I disappeared for a week or two weeks. You know?
Jason Elkins (12:11.953)
Well, was that a good thing from their perspective or did that annoy them?
Gerardo Niklitschek (12:16.494)
They really respect me and to be honest, we were not doing crazy things, you know, like using ropes and climbing. No, at that time, we had no idea, no clue that we could do that, you know, with the proper equipment.
Jason Elkins (12:28.903)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (12:41.351)
Great.
Gerardo Niklitschek (12:41.518)
But you know, we were just having fun in nature. We was just, you know, jumping in a river, know, enjoy just being alone there, you know, enjoy nature. That’s all. No, we never thought about doing rafting.
Jason Elkins (12:54.673)
So your parents, your parents.
Right. Did your parents join you on any of these excursions or what was, what was their attitude?
Gerardo Niklitschek (12:59.362)
Go ahead.
Gerardo Niklitschek (13:03.904)
No. No. No. Yes. They, to be honest, they really trust my judgment and they say, be careful, son. That’s it. I mean, I hope you do. You know what you’re doing, you know? And of course they trust me and that I wasn’t a crazy guy trying to do lunatic things, you know, rather beside that being alone for many people.
looks like it’s an Atlantic thing, you know, I mean, like, this guy is crazy being outdoors by his own. But, but the definitely that that creates. Sorry.
Jason Elkins (13:41.085)
What do you think?
Jason Elkins (13:46.973)
I was just gonna ask, were they happy that you were doing it or would they rather had you focused on your schoolwork or studies or what do you think? Did they want you to?
Gerardo Niklitschek (13:58.14)
no, normally respect my school time, always. I never quit anything that any task, know, or my time in the school. Normally I do this when I have time, but can’t…
Jason Elkins (14:40.541)
Well, feel free to share. This is a good place to do it on a podcast.
Gerardo, you were telling me that you had some stories, some things, some maybe kind of crazy things that you were doing that you never told about.
Do you have any stories you want to share with us here or would you rather not have them be made public now?
Gerardo Niklitschek (17:24.588)
No, it’s, you know, we did some crazy things. Crazy thing when I remember now, you know, is we explore rivers, for example, all the way without any trail in the jungle. mean, crazy things. No food, no tent, nothing, you know.
So we have to do, we have to really prepare shelters with nature, with the forest. And we have, we can, I mean, we barely had any food. So we had to get some food from the forest or feed, you know, to feed them ourselves. And we were in a…
I mean, situation. I mean, with rain and all wet, you know, and a little bit with hypothermia. I mean, no, the things that you will never do or promote, you know, to anybody now. And…
Jason Elkins (18:40.285)
Well, I was going to ask you though, you run into a few clients that actually would really like to go do that type of thing? I mean, obviously it’s not something you want to offer to everybody, but I suspect you’ve run into a few clients that are, yeah, let’s go have an adventure like that. Does that happen on occasion?
Gerardo Niklitschek (18:58.645)
What the?
Gerardo Niklitschek (19:02.882)
Yeah, that’s exactly… Yeah, when we were young, you know, and we had this connection with the… When you’re young, you feel like you can do anything, anything you want, you know? And when you are in situations, but… And then you discover you can do it. You’re not in your comfort zone, you know? Definitely. I mean, you’re miserable.
Jason Elkins (19:19.036)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (19:31.508)
you know, all wet, know, you know, with cold, and sometimes with no food, etc, etc. But, but that also create, you know, some energy in you, and some confidence in you and for being in nature with not in in a comfortable situation, you know, so when you when you get equipment, then food,
Jason Elkins (19:32.701)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (19:59.134)
and all the technology that we got today is like, my gosh, mean, now it’s heaven. You see, exactly, exactly, you know? And, but it’s, I think that really makes the connection, you know, with us. And, but to be honest, we could have, you know, one of our friends could be dead, you know, easy. I mean, falling into a…
Jason Elkins (20:03.833)
It’s easy, right? this is easy now.
Gerardo Niklitschek (20:28.226)
tree from a tree or whatever could happen there you know and we were lucky we were super lucky you know and as explorers to be honest and and so it for you know then i continued you know doing this not crazy things just just being outside comfortable you know and normally close to a name
Not a house spring natural house springs near to a river so you can spend a week fishing, you know Baiting in the in the house spring enjoying the nature You know sleeping in a tent with the with the sky, you know stars heaven for us for me So people get a very very people start really realizing what I was doing and they
start coming with me so I got I would I don’t know create a group of five six eight and ten at the end people who were you know enjoyed in this every single year and specific dates you know as a ritual you know for example finishing the you know your your studies then you got your vacations for holidays and you know Christmas
We finish Krishna’s and then boom, we all go and disappear for two, three weeks in the nature. And so, yeah.
Jason Elkins (22:03.505)
Very cool. What were you studying? You mentioned school. talked, we touched on it briefly, but what were you studying in school? What did you think? Was there anything else you thought you might do? Cause sometimes people, you know, they study, I don’t know, math or something. They think, no, I’m going to be an accountant. And then they realize, no, I’m not going to be an accountant. So I was curious, what were you studying in school?
Gerardo Niklitschek (22:24.612)
No, at that time, at that time, I didn’t, we didn’t have any, any career or any, any course or any degrees of a show. How do you call an English bachelor? Bachelor?
Jason Elkins (22:42.397)
Yeah, bachelor’s degree or university degree.
Gerardo Niklitschek (22:45.804)
Yeah, in tourism, not nothing, you know, even I mean, not even regular tourism, no outdoor, nothing. So the guide to become a guide, it wasn’t a possibility at all. mean, there was no business in terms of outdoor recreation. So.
I was really a sport guy. And so I used to play basketball for many years. This is my background as a young guy. And then I went to study in the University of Mariposa, so physical training as a teacher for, you know, working in the schools. And I finished my…
All my career, know in Valparaiso, but every single year I come back to my house of my parents house in Puerto Varas and during the Summertime which we have vacations normally, you know, I have this crazy, you know trips to nature and with a bunch of friends so You know, I start thinking
about it, you know, in my mind, like dreaming with this trip, was like thinking about how, man, I want this year to be finished so I’m able to come back, you know, and being in the river again and fishing. I was dreaming with that when I was actually studying Barber Azo, you know, and telling to my, to many people about what I used to do.
Jason Elkins (24:20.796)
Hmm?
Jason Elkins (24:29.915)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (24:34.336)
in the summertime. So everybody was like excited about, my gosh, I want to go with you, you know, and definitely I would like to experience what you experience in nature and let’s go. So it becomes like a natural thing every single summer, you know, and we normally skate for two, three weeks, you know, in our forest here in the, which is now the Vicente Pedro Society National Park, you know, and
Jason Elkins (24:39.547)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (25:02.8)
And basically, you know, with the years I finished my my education and start working in different high schools. But I got this in my mind, you know, like a splinter in my mind, you know, like, my gosh, what can I do to be there? You know, come back and spend all my time there because I thought I have to share this, you know.
Jason Elkins (25:18.141)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (25:31.692)
I mean, at the beginning was my friends, you know, to share with my friends. But then I said, how can I do, you know, to share this happiness that I have in nature? You know, and I was thinking in, you know, really thinking, I mean, how can I do this? You know, how can I do? I’m going to make a living through this, you know?
And I had no clue at that time, no clue. And suddenly, you know, when things, I had a situation in Vaporiso, I was playing basketball for one team professionally in Chile, and I decided to change teams, that created a situation, you know, that it changed my reality in Vaporiso.
So I decided to quit my life in VaporAizo and end it. I mean, 100%. And my life was in VaporAizo. I was having a life, studying, working, girlfriend, everything. And one day I said, this is it. I don’t want to do all of it.
Jason Elkins (26:51.261)
To all of it? Including to all of it, huh? Okay, all right.
Gerardo Niklitschek (26:57.622)
all of it. I said this is it. I’m not happy here. I can’t imagine myself in 10 years being teacher. You know, I will be the most miserable person in the planet. So this is not my field, you know. And for what I came to Barbra Azo is over. I did it. I’m accomplished for what I came, you know.
So I decide to call my father, my parents, say, hey, buddy, you know, I finished. I’m done.
Jason Elkins (27:36.637)
How did they receive that? How did that go over with your father?
Gerardo Niklitschek (27:42.364)
they were so nice with me because they say, is that what you want? Yeah. I said, I’m a professional, you know, I can get a job anywhere in the country, you know, right? I’ll try, know, but again, my hometown. And of course I have to make a living, you know, if for any reason what I try to do doesn’t work, I have to come back for being a teacher and I can be a teacher anywhere.
So when I met, when I come back here to Puerto Varas, the next year, I mean, right away, boom, I met a friend who start the first company, outdoor company in Puerto Varas. You know, and I said, what are you doing? I mean,
Tell me about what you’re doing. Well, I’m taking some people to nature to hike, to walk, you know, in the forest, in the trails. And I said, man, that’s exactly what I want to do.
Jason Elkins (28:58.767)
And you’re like, and you’re getting paid for it? Wow.
Gerardo Niklitschek (29:01.91)
Exactly exactly but this was like I mean Nobody had a clue what this guy’s was doing even myself. I mean like okay. Yes, he had a van very old chef Chevrolet, know, it’s your one Chevrolet, know and and I remember we had a Jeep very old one
Jason Elkins (29:19.984)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (29:30.626)
So we start doing the strips and he was actually he came with a couple rafts to do rafting. And that was the like the something that blew my mind, know, like, my gosh. And then the volcanoes. mean, he started he had the idea of the rivers, you know, on the water. And I said, OK, you do that, but I’ll take the
the tracking, the experience to hike with people in the forest. Besides that, I know the forest and through my years here. So this is how I start. And we work together, working every single year, every single summer, because I used to come back to, I normally come back to Valparaiso, come back to here, work in the summer.
and because in the winter, mean finishing the summer there was nothing, no work at all, know just in January, February, March over you know and those times and until I decide to really do it get around I mean like I try to get new you know businesses and and this guy decided to to finish
mean quit. says I don’t want this anymore. It’s so difficult. You know, I want to start another idea that I had in another place. And I said, okay, I’m gonna follow the you know what you are what you are what we are doing now, you know, the rafting and the tracking and everything. I said, I will continue. I will create my own company and I’ll continue this.
And this is how I start. And that was 80 years ago. You know, and I had no guides in Chile. You know, to, I mean, people who I can relate, you know, or ask for a guide to be in the water or in a kayak or whatever. Nothing. None. You know? So when I start my company,
Jason Elkins (31:37.681)
Wow.
Gerardo Niklitschek (31:57.216)
I had a friend from the US and I told him I’m going to start my own business here and why don’t you come and help me out with my idea. I pay you whatever you need to. You have a house with me. And he brought five friends from Colorado. They used to work in a company in Vail.
Jason Elkins (32:19.289)
Okay.
Gerardo Niklitschek (32:25.796)
and of course in my time they have this winter you know so it was perfect so this is how i start you know and and they helped me out with my company at the beginning and then i you know normally finish my company normally was not working at all in between you know march and september you know so i have to do something else you know
to pay the bills. But, you know, through the years, I can believe, you know, how this idea of being outdoor and work with people, take people to nature, to experience nature, exactly what I used to do, you know, in the past, it becomes a hit, suddenly, you know.
Jason Elkins (33:17.735)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (33:22.589)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (33:23.5)
Everybody was, suddenly, you know, I don’t know how everybody was talking about, my God, now it’s all related to the experience in nature. know, suddenly I see like a boom, like a bomb, you know, explodes. And that’s how, you know, we started growing, you know, of course, people and through the years until now, you know, we are not a big company, but
Jason Elkins (33:34.107)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (33:53.358)
We do pretty good, you know?
Jason Elkins (33:55.483)
Yeah. And, and you’ve got, I’m sure you’ve had other companies come along the way, some that maybe you partnered with or just came about. And if you go to Port DeVaris, it’s been a while since I’ve been there, but last time I was down there, there were a few tour operators. Yeah. You’ve, you’ve got a little competition now.
Gerardo Niklitschek (34:11.094)
Yeah, no, no, Exactly, exactly. You know, but the good thing about this, I was lucky because when I start my company, at the same time, I got married, you know, with the lady. And, and, you know, I create my company.
in 96 and 97, 98 I was already working you know hand to hand with Douglas Tompkins in the National Park Pumalin. You know that was you know how I really really grow fast you know in my business.
because he started this project when my wife, at that time, it was his right hand. So we get to know each other very well. And of course, besides the rafting and the trip we were doing in Puerto Varas area, I personally start doing all the trips in PumaLing Park.
Jason Elkins (35:22.171)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (35:37.998)
for personal friends and donors for Dino Stomping.
Jason Elkins (35:43.741)
You know, Douglas has a name that people that have been to that area certainly know it. So tell us a little bit more kind of about him. What should people know about Douglas Tompkins? it Tompkin or Tompkins? Tompkins, yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (35:56.228)
Tompkins. Yeah, he there’s a there’s several movies that can explain this better than me. But one of them is the 180 degrees south. That’s a movie that explain what how Dallas Tompkins came to the south of Chile with a bunch of friends, including Yvonne Chouinard, the owner of Patagonia.
Jason Elkins (36:23.741)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (36:26.212)
and they they were a bunch of friends and decide to do a trip from you know california all the way down to shuaya in a van with surfboards they were climbers they were they were kayakers they were you know surfers i mean these guys can do anything you know i mean at the time that we didn’t knew what it means
Jason Elkins (36:39.387)
Mm hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (36:55.68)
a kayak you know we have no idea grew what it was a kayak or even a raft or whatever even I mean I don’t think that there was people doing surfing at that time in Chile you know maybe I’m wrong but these guys came and they did they were third descenders of rivers like the bio bio they did the first volcanoes first ascents to volcanoes
Jason Elkins (36:57.266)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (37:24.036)
Everything that they did was first ascents or first descents in rivers in Chile, you know, and they end up, you know, in Patagonia in Argentina at the fish Roy and they climbed the fish Roy and they actually there’s a there’s a climate and face or there’s a route, you know, at the mountain that has his name the California rule, you know, and and so this where these guys I mean and Douglas he was
Jason Elkins (37:28.679)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (37:52.938)
Somehow involved with the panagonia key, you know, he decided to come back And and and have a life here. So he started this project When he divorced in the united states He was this, know this the owner of with his ex-wife he was the they create the a company called spree spree, you know and and
Jason Elkins (38:22.085)
Was it Sprint? What was the company? Spirit Spirit. yeah. Okay. Yep. All right.
Gerardo Niklitschek (38:24.068)
Spirit. Spirit is cut. You know, so when they when he decided to move to the to Chile, I think he divorced and they and they he got a good amount of money and come to Chile and then decide to do this project of environmental project like creating a park, which is Puanin Park.
And this is how this is when I start when I get it when I fit into the in this picture with him. And we were together for a long time, long time. And every every single summer I was, you know, guiding in kayaks, you know, in the fjords or tracking in the forest, the alerces trees, our sequoia, our redwoods, you know, and.
So we were very busy, very busy. Besides a bunch of people in Puerto Juarez doing rafting with us. So it was very interesting and that’s how I get to know Yvon Chenaar. We’re still friends and of course we don’t see that much. He’s a busy man.
Jason Elkins (39:46.673)
Yeah, no, I understand. Tell me about your wife, because you mentioned her. You married her right around the time you were kind of getting started. It sounds like she had a connection with Douglas and all them as well,
Gerardo Niklitschek (39:57.816)
Yeah, she was. Yeah, I was married with Carolina Morgado, which is he was the right hand of Douglas and at that time. And now she’s the well, the the lady that managed rewilding, which is the the next generation of what you know, of after the Douglas death, you know, the
The foundations become rewilding. Another foundation that is managed by Chris Stonkin, which is the second wife of Douglas.
Jason Elkins (40:29.82)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (40:39.569)
What would you, is there anything you’re willing to share with our listeners about? Cause I’m always fascinated about couples and relationships and how tourism can have an impact on those relationships. So I’m curious if I, if you’d like to share anything there in the sense that, you know, sometimes you’ve got one person in the relationship is super tourism want to go have adventures and experiences. And then sometimes their partner.
is not so not so into it or wishes you just get a real job or something like that. Did you have any of those issues?
Gerardo Niklitschek (41:07.458)
Yeah, no.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no real. Well, everybody when I start Al Sur Expeditions, know, Al Expediciones, there were no clue about what I was doing, you know, and most of the people, they never understood. I mean, everybody thought that I was a crazy guy trying to have a good life, you know.
Jason Elkins (41:37.787)
Yeah, I get it. I’ve been there. I know what you mean.
Gerardo Niklitschek (41:41.898)
Exactly and everybody advised me like hey, I mean come on I mean you’re young but I mean you’re be married you’re have children I mean get a job You know and I said I have a job You know and I’m super happy I probably have no money but but I’m super happy and
Jason Elkins (41:53.596)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (42:04.069)
Yeah. Well, if you had money, what would you do? You’d spend it on to go out and spend time in the forest. So you might as well just cut out the middle man, right?
Gerardo Niklitschek (42:09.668)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I make a decision in my life and I couldn’t do anything else than what I’m doing now. I mean, definitely. So far, so good. I mean, I decided to do this, you know, and I knew I always knew that it’s not going to be something that I had to become a rich guy, you know, but.
but I reach in terms of money, but I reach in terms of experience of life and happiness, I’m a super rich guy. the money comes as a consequence of what I do. And of course it’s necessary for, because when there’s employees, there’s people you have to respond.
Jason Elkins (42:46.449)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (43:00.888)
There’s families, of course, your family and your sons, education, health, anything, everything you can mention.
Jason Elkins (43:11.709)
So you mentioned Suns. I’m curious, is there anybody else? You’ve got Asun?
Gerardo Niklitschek (43:14.916)
I have a daughter. Yeah, she’s called, her name is Mia. yeah, she’s still finding what to do in life. Pretty much like any of us, you know?
Jason Elkins (43:19.643)
and a daughter.
Jason Elkins (43:36.251)
Now, I was going to ask, she involved in the business? Does she have any interest in this tourism stuff or?
Gerardo Niklitschek (43:41.634)
No, no, no. No, I mean, she knows. She knows water. She knows that, you know, what it means to be in the river in a rafting operation. But I don’t push her at all. I mean, she has to find out what she wants to do in her life. If she want to work with me in the future, perfecto, no problem. But it has to be, you know, her call, not mine.
Jason Elkins (44:08.871)
Well, I think, I think you’re wise in that because you went through that. You went a different route than what your parents might’ve suggested or friends, family, other people. So I think you probably have a unique perspective on that. So I can kind of hear that in your voice. It’s like, no, she can, whatever she does, I might think is crazy, but good for her, right? That’s what I’m picking up.
Gerardo Niklitschek (44:23.651)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (44:30.786)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I hope she comes and work for me. if it’s later, even better because she needs to grow up and experience life. There’s more, no? There’s more. And at the end, definition of what you want to do in life is after that, when you get to know more the world, you know, and then you realize what you want to do, you know, not because I’m telling you.
Jason Elkins (44:49.723)
Yeah.
I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do.
Gerardo Niklitschek (44:59.606)
Exactly, exactly. So, so I think I mean, I have confidence that she will find out, you know, what she wants to do with her life. And but well.
Jason Elkins (45:15.529)
I’m do you mind sharing with us a little bit of the kind of what you learned along the way as far as growing a team? Because you started with, you had a partner or you’re working with him early on, but then you started your own business and you’ve grown it over the course of 30 some years. So what are some pointers if somebody else is listening to this that’s kind of earlier on in the process, they’re starting their own business, they want to expand and have other team members, what advice would you give to them?
Gerardo Niklitschek (45:45.036)
Oof. It’s not easy.
Jason Elkins (45:47.037)
That’s a topic for a whole other podcast episode, isn’t it?
Gerardo Niklitschek (45:51.076)
It’s not easy. It’s not easy. mean, especially in this. mean right now right now I have to say that is after 30 years in Chile we have You know academies, know teaching how to become a guy Outdoor guy regular guy, you know and
And there’s a, I can tell you, there’s a bunch of people that I can right now speak, you know, and test if they’re good or not. So right now is not, is to be honest, is, is, there’s many, many people, coming from small academies, know, or even college, you know. So.
Jason Elkins (46:25.084)
Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (46:46.698)
now it’s amazing to see that, you know, and I’m so happy for Chile, for the youth, for our youth, for our, you there’s a chance, there’s a possibility to learn this when you really feel like this is your field, then you can study how to become a guide or how to become a manager of any businesses, you know, but related to tourism.
you know, and also hospitality, which is the hotels, businesses, it’s much better now. I mean, it’s incredible. In 30 years, you know, so much happens in Chile in that area. In my time, when I start, it was just a guy that somebody knew, a guy who was crazy and loved nature and loved water.
They can call and invite, you know? It’s like a, or, Yeah, exactly, exactly. And if you were lucky enough to know foreign people, like from example, in my case, I knew guides that normally used to work in other rivers in United States, because in United States, happens, this happened.
Jason Elkins (47:49.755)
Uh-huh, crazy, crazy was the keyword though, wasn’t it? Somebody that’s crazy.
Gerardo Niklitschek (48:15.038)
long time ago, you know. So in 30 years ago, you were already working in nature. You were, the industry was developed in the United States. So I can really reach guides from in Europe too, you know. I can reach people and invite them to come to Chile, but not to make money, to have experience.
Jason Elkins (48:39.761)
No, they were just, they were just excited to do it. When I was, you know, when I was doing the fishing guiding and, I’d managed a couple of fishing lodges and that’s quite a few of the guides on our staff, you know, would go spend, you know, they’re what we’d call winters up North. They’d go down to Chile or Argentina. And it was, it was great. Everybody wanted that gig. And I don’t know, I got the feeling like they probably didn’t get paid anything other than maybe tips, but they were just happy to do it.
Gerardo Niklitschek (48:42.787)
Yes.
Gerardo Niklitschek (48:46.104)
Yeah!
Gerardo Niklitschek (48:58.67)
Yeah
Gerardo Niklitschek (49:02.724)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (49:08.396)
Yeah, exactly. you know, for example, I I think in in You know 20 years ago Something I mean Chile what it still is but Chile was like let’s go and do the bio bio river the wildest river unknown in you know in the planet Class five and blah blah blah, you know, and then and then there’s so much rivers
wild with no people no companies you know so that was like the i don’t know the like the maker of the outdoor you know
Jason Elkins (49:41.201)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (49:49.565)
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I remember thinking the same when, you know, the first chance I got to go to Patagonia was, you know, amazing that I was there working in Patagonia. It was very cool. Yeah. Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (49:52.835)
Yeah.
Exactly, exactly. Exactly. that’s why people came, you know, to, Paragonia? Of course. I mean, you have food, shelter. I can get some money. Yeah, I’ll go, you know. Of course, now it’s totally different, know, totally different.
Jason Elkins (50:14.669)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Gerardo Niklitschek (50:20.484)
There’s still some crazy guys who really want to experience, you know, they’re still because there’s still a lot to do in nature here. There’s so much untouched. Like in the United States, Alaska too, you know, Canada. But of course, now I can promise people like, okay, if you come, you’re gonna work, you know. You will work, I mean.
Jason Elkins (50:27.805)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:36.221)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:44.989)
You
Because now you have all of these younger people that are getting an education that have decided, I want to work in the outdoor industry. And you’ve got them and they live there, they’re from there. So they’re competing with those guys from Colorado that used to want to come down. So they’re going to have to work hard.
Gerardo Niklitschek (51:00.64)
Exactly.
Gerardo Niklitschek (51:05.952)
Exactly exactly. No, but yeah, but now you know now my team for example my team in drafting is 195 % Chilean They’re all experienced guides Through you know with a lot of experience with different rivers in his body and they’re now working in Slovenia, for example You know, they’re not working over there and some of some
Jason Elkins (51:17.394)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (51:30.032)
Okay, yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (51:34.468)
of the team are working in the United States in our winter, you know, because we close the operation in now in May, June, July, August, nothing. We don’t operate the river. We operate just the track and some other things, the rivers too, mean, we avoid it, you know, and it’s too cold, too rainy, huge water. So…
And that’s why I’m saying when we start the conversation, I was telling you that this is it. We are getting into the end of the season after being, know, doing so much stuff. to be honest with you, somehow the connection that I did with Douglas Tomlinson at the beginning of my career in tourism, it really makes me a…
Jason Elkins (52:17.287)
Very, cool.
Gerardo Niklitschek (52:33.22)
a different person and I found that what I love, nature, needs to be protected. And I learned that through him. And that makes me a completely different person and I really focus all my jobs and all my company into what I call outdoor tourism and conservation.
You know, so and until today until today, I’m still related to organizations like in one in New York, which is called the Butler Foundation. there those are small foundations who the owners are people who got very is really they’re really fan of nature too. But there but those people are being successful.
probably in other businesses, you know, and they become really millionaires and now they help somehow, you know, different organizations, you know, like, for example, in the past, the Tompkins organization.
Jason Elkins (53:35.058)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (53:49.981)
I’m because you mentioned there’s some organizations, there’s some people out there that have made a lot of money doing something else and they are committed to working with conservation. I’m curious about your typical client. So, you offer a Petroway, Rio Petroway rafting trip or something like that. The people that come to Parque de Varas and participate in your activities.
What’s your take on how important conservation is to them? Will they pay more money to go with an operator that’s committed to conservation? Or do they even care? Is it just based on reviews and price?
Gerardo Niklitschek (54:30.658)
Yeah, right now, right now there is a mix, you know, and because I’m still, I mean, I don’t work in big scale tourism. I’m a niche, you know, like I’m a small business and normally I’m related to visit national parks who has been donated by these organizations.
Jason Elkins (54:44.733)
Hmm?
Gerardo Niklitschek (55:00.836)
So the way I work is basically I advertise myself, my company, as a company who can organize and show you any part or any idea that you would like to know in terms of conservation. It’s not…
the it’s not the best business because if you want anybody I mean I mean of course I’m not open to anything I mean if you want to come for example and do outdoors like hiking at the Carretera Austral in Chile like the Highway 7 I’ll do it but always I try I will stop in the parks that I think they’re important in Chile in terms of conservation
Why? Because I’m still involved. And for example, I’m right now in National Park, Patagonia, which is one of the parks that the Tonkis did, especially Grisman David. I’m still working there, like helping to maintain the trails, you know, and things like that. But I try to always connect
the experience of people who want to travel to Chile somehow connected to the environmental issues. And most of time, the people are very aware of and they want to know what’s going on. Yeah, they’re open to it. of course, in the Petrova River,
Jason Elkins (56:38.159)
Mm-hmm. All right.
Jason Elkins (56:47.549)
Okay, they’re open to it.
Gerardo Niklitschek (56:54.308)
if everybody wants to do just rafting that’s completely different you know i mean they just go rafting you know and also some other people would like just to do a day trip as trekking and they would do the trekking i mean what what i’m talking about is a long-distance tourism you know like from europe or united states i mean how or why somebody would come and do
Jason Elkins (56:59.847)
Okay. Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (57:23.612)
with me, you know, with my organization, is because I am related to the story of the sparks, you know, I can explain, I can connect with them, I can somehow introduce them to what happened there, you know, and yeah, yeah, basically that’s…
Jason Elkins (57:40.637)
Right. Right.
Jason Elkins (57:44.733)
But I don’t know what percentage of your business comes from outside of Chile as opposed to domestically.
Gerardo Niklitschek (57:54.06)
I would say we…
I would say it’s a third of the business right now. It’s not that much, but it’s important and we want to improve the numbers. And we worked a lot with all kinds of people, even Chileans, Argentines, South American neighbors, Argentina, Peru, and of course people from Europe.
Jason Elkins (58:05.433)
is from outside of Chile.
Jason Elkins (58:10.246)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (58:28.824)
Puerto Aras has become a destination in Chile, in the Lake District. We got so much stuff here happening, know, good restaurants, good hotels, as one of the cities with most capacity in beds, you know. So, yeah, exactly. it’s basically is the…
Jason Elkins (58:45.592)
okay. Yeah, and it’s beautiful. mean, it’s really, really cool place. I have a lot of fun memories.
Gerardo Niklitschek (58:57.348)
I would say is the gate for the Patagonia from the north. There’s a new project called the Road of the Park of Patagonia, which is the big project that connects all the parks from north to south, all the way to Tierra del Fuego. There’s 17 parks.
Outstripe Road is Road 7 connect and some of them connected by ocean So and and having working all my life Since the first day, you know with park Pumanin for example and This is this is part of this project Pumanin and all the parts that the pumpkins create they donated, you know through I mean Christmas
donate these parks to Chilean government. And the Chilean government also put some land in this project. you know, so they match the amount of land that the private people were donating, you know, but they create this net of parks in Chile, which have this this name. you can, I mean, it’s not impossible, but if you want to know all of them,
Jason Elkins (01:00:10.51)
Okay.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:00:24.004)
It will take you three, four months or five months, you know. So normally you can pick. You can pick and OK, you want to know the northern sections of the park. That’s, you know, a bunch of them. But it’s the northern section of the parks, the Patagonia Norte, we call it. Or the South, which is Tierra del Fuego and Paine, you know, and it’s different.
Jason Elkins (01:00:26.695)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:00:52.932)
There’s so much stuff there.
Jason Elkins (01:00:53.467)
And are you able to help, someone’s listening to this right now, wants to go to Patagonia, has no idea where. Are you able to help with pretty much any of those areas? If they reach out to you through your website, can you advise them on anything Patagonia or what would you like them to know?
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:01:06.765)
Yeah.
Yeah. yeah. That’s, that’s, that is my expertise. You know, I’ve become one of the more, one of the guys who has been doing so much stuff in all Patagonia, you know, with these organizations, you know, this private ONG’s, yeah, they have been working well so long time with them. So I still.
Jason Elkins (01:01:16.123)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:01:31.431)
Very, cool.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:01:38.87)
you know, organize trips for this for these people and for anybody who really wants to do the specific things in Patagonia, this is my my field.
Jason Elkins (01:01:50.533)
And I’m guessing, yeah, I’m guessing I know the answer to this question, but I believe that we’ve got a list, a lot of listeners to the show that are also tour operators or, you know, maybe what we call an outbound tour operator or a buyer that is sending clients to Patagonia or any, any number of places. So do you, are you open to, what would you like to say to the, to the person that
has a tour operation business in Kansas and they’ve got a bunch of clients that are traveling to different places around the world. Would you be happy to have a conversation with them to work as what we call a DMC, destination management company or kind of the person on the ground that actually handles their clients? that you open to that? I figured you were, but I thought we had to at least mention that.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:02:36.034)
Yeah, of course, No, definitely. No, definitely. And this is, this is why we get into the ATTA. You know, this is why to connect with the, with the different, different companies, buyers and different products. And, and, and, and definitely, I think we are a very serious company.
Jason Elkins (01:02:46.073)
Okay.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:03:00.652)
you know, not a big one, a small one, but we got a lot of experience through the years and people really trust in what we do. if that’s just recently yesterday, I received a I had the honor to receive, you know, you know, the name of this is
Jason Elkins (01:03:34.151)
Say it again.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:03:35.256)
But I’m trying to remember. It’s a… You know, through my life in tourism, I was… Honored.
Jason Elkins (01:03:38.428)
ARAINIAL
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:03:50.571)
see.
Jason Elkins (01:03:55.485)
Kind of an award or acknowledgement for your contributions. Yeah. All right. That’s, that’s very cool. Well, we’re going to have, I was going to mention that we’re going to have a link to your website, right? Right in the show notes. And if you’ve got something else that you can share with me after, after we wrap up, and I can add that onto that page as well for our listeners, go take a look at that.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:03:55.52)
You can Yeah, exactly exactly that’s all
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:04:05.151)
Yeah
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:04:10.936)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:04:23.633)
We’ve discussed a lot of things. We’ve covered a lot of stuff. And I also realized that there’s a lot of stuff we did not get to. Maybe we need to come back and have a few more conversations. But in the meantime, is there anything that I forgot to ask you, should have asked you, or that you want to make sure our listeners know either about you, your business, or Chile before we wrap up?
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:04:30.148)
You
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:04:45.892)
I think it’s the idea, know, the to get to know me and through you for the rest of the people is, is always good. I think it’s we spoke about the most principal things, you know, I mean, in terms of what it means to be in this in this life and in this business. But yeah, I think it’s pretty much has been everything, you know, I mean,
I don’t think there’s anything else where we can go into more details about what we have done, which is so much stuff.
Jason Elkins (01:05:26.525)
There’s so many things. Somebody that’s like yourself, grew up in the outdoors and has been working in this business for 30 years, you have an unlimited supply of kind of, I guess, things that you’ve come across and stories to share. I appreciate you coming on and sharing some of those with us today. And I will say, I have the pleasure of seeing you on the video screen as we’re having this conversation. You’re in Chile, I’m up the road in Ecuador right now.
And our listeners might not be able to see your face, but I can see the passion in your face and in your eyes. And you’re talking about this stuff. I’ve been around a lot of great guides in the past and there’s a few characteristics that I’ve picked up from them. Just that passion and the eyes light up and that curiosity and that just, wow. You know, just the way you were describing things and just watching your face. really enjoyed that. So Colorado, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and at the
The end of your season, I’m sure you’re ready to go sit in front of a fire and drink a beer or something. But I remember I’ve done a few seasonal.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:06:32.836)
Yeah, I deserve it. I deserve it to be honest.
Jason Elkins (01:06:38.461)
I bet you do. I bet you do. I know. you and I just over the last course of the last few weeks setting this up, we had some like had to reschedule a couple of times because you were still hot and heavy in it. So I’m happy things slowed down enough that you were able to join us. So thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:06:42.69)
Yeah.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:06:50.232)
Yes.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:06:58.414)
Thank you Jason for also for your time and I think it was great to meet you and I hope we can meet in person here once in Chile. You are not that far away.
Jason Elkins (01:07:12.279)
I’m not that far away and I’ve just started working with a client that’s a little much closer. He’s down in Chile as well. So we’ve been talking about meeting him. So I might swing by and spend some time. I’d love to go back to Puerto Varas. have some very fond memories.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:07:25.868)
Well, if you do, let me know.
Jason Elkins (01:07:28.637)
I certainly will. We’ll see you in Chile. All right. Thanks, Gerardo. Appreciate it.
Gerardo Niklitschek (01:07:33.216)
Okay Jason, really nice to talk to you. Bye bye.
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