Guest Bio
Jean-Michel Jefferson is the founder and CEO of Ahipara Luxury Travel. He grew up with authentic and meaningful travel experiences, which he now enjoys creating for others. His company specializes in crafting personalized luxury travel experiences in New Zealand, focusing on providing unique and immersive journeys for their clients.
Show Summary
In this episode, Jean-Michel Jefferson shares his journey from his early travel experiences to founding Ahipara Luxury Travel. He discusses the importance of authentic and meaningful travel, the challenges of curating personalized luxury experiences, and his dedication to showcasing the unique aspects of New Zealand. Jean-Michel also reflects on the evolving landscape of luxury travel and the significance of sustainability in the industry.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Authentic Travel Experiences: Crafting journeys that offer genuine connections with local culture and environment enhances traveler satisfaction.
- ✓ Personalization in Luxury Travel: Tailoring itineraries to individual preferences ensures unique and memorable experiences.
- ✓ Sustainable Tourism: Implementing eco-friendly practices is crucial for preserving destinations and supporting local communities.
- ✓ Leadership in Adventure Travel: Guiding a company to adapt and grow in a dynamic industry requires vision and dedication.
- ✓ Continuous Learning: Embracing new challenges and environments contributes to professional and personal development.
What You’ll Find on Ahipara Luxury Travel’s Platform
- ✓ Customized Luxury Tours: Expertly planned itineraries that showcase New Zealand’s diverse landscapes and cultures.
- ✓ Exclusive Experiences: Access to unique activities and locations, providing an intimate connection with the destination.
- ✓ Expert Local Guides: Knowledgeable professionals offering in-depth insights into New Zealand’s natural and cultural heritage.
- ✓ Sustainable Practices: Commitment to eco-friendly tourism that supports environmental conservation and local communities.
- ✓ Personalized Service: Dedicated attention to detail, ensuring each journey aligns with the client’s interests and desires.
👉 Visit Ahipara Luxury Travel’s Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Jean-Michel Jefferson’s contributions to luxury travel in New Zealand.
Learn more about Ahipara Travel and connect with Jean-Michel at:
https://www.ahipara.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.338)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today. And I’m super excited today. We’ve got Jean-Michel Jefferson, who is the owner of Ahipara Travel. Did I get that right, Jean-Michel? Because I know I had to practice a few times and sounds okay. All right, cool. I’m just super excited to have you here with me. I’ve had, you know, conversations and connected with you a bit in the
Jean-Michel Jefferson (00:19.378)
Yeah, you… You certainly got it right.
Jason Elkins (00:31.242)
about some of the cool stuff you’re doing there and specifically in New Zealand. So that’s, we’re gonna be talking a little bit about New Zealand today and kind of what makes it special, what makes your program special. But frankly, what makes all of that special, especially your program is you. So I want the listeners to have an opportunity to learn a little bit about you, kind of how you got from where you are to where you are now. And we can go back as far as you want. So wherever you think is relevant, let’s go back to that and just.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (00:56.136)
Ha!
Jason Elkins (00:59.21)
Share your story a little bit and help the listeners kind of get a feel for who you are.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (01:03.746)
Cool, cool. My wife hates it when I get asked this question because I can take forever to answer. But… Okay, so English father, French mother, dad was an English diplomat. So I grew up in North Africa and the Middle East. Did the whole boarding school thing back in the UK. Managed to get expelled a couple of times. And then ended up at a couple of universities in the UK.
Jason Elkins (01:08.682)
Hey, we got all the time in the world. That’s a podcast.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (01:31.338)
and before I joined Price Waterhouse as a management consultant. And so I was an aviation strategist and ended up specializing in Russian aerospace. My first degree was in Russian. And so the good thing about that is it allowed me to make a lot of money very quickly in Russia and then decide I really didn’t like what I was doing and head over to New Zealand and change my life totally. So…
Jason Elkins (01:58.432)
Very cool.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (01:59.286)
got to New Zealand with the birth of our first daughter and thought, what do we want to do for the rest of our lives? And the answer was set up a travel company that did travel how we thought it should be done, by going deep. And here I am.
Jason Elkins (02:16.051)
Very cool. So how long ago was that you had that revelation and decided to start the business?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (02:22.25)
moved here in 98 and started the business about 2001. So just over 20 years.
Jason Elkins (02:27.246)
Okay. All right. Very cool. And you already said the words go deep. I love that. I think I know what that means because I’ve had a conversation with you in the past. It seems obvious, but if there’s somebody listening to this that maybe he doesn’t know what we’re talking about, what does go deep mean for you when it comes to tourism?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (02:34.986)
Yep.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (02:47.902)
Okay, so for me, whenever I go to a country, I have a question which is, how does this country work? What’s going on? Who are these people? Why do they do what they do? And what is their cool to do here? And that is the approach that I’ve taken fairly much every day for the last 20 years, is keep looking at the people that we put in front of our clients and think, what are we missing? Oh, we need a jet boat driver because that last one.
We’re actually true. We had a wonderful jet bird driver who would take people on these custom trips. And then the, I’m trying not to swear. Um, okay. Okay. But then this guy decided to, that he wanted to go and live in the States. And so we lost him. And so we have to go and find another one. But to try and answer that a bit more clearly,
Jason Elkins (03:14.475)
Mmm.
Jason Elkins (03:27.468)
Ah, you can do it. We’re all grownups here. Ha ha.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (03:43.342)
Helicopters are a big thing in New Zealand, for example, and so a lot of people say you’ve got to go on a heli trip because it’s so beautiful. Now we do them slightly differently. What we do is we select the pilot. So obviously the area, we know which areas are nice, and then we select the pilot. And you see the countryside through the heart of someone who has loved it for the last 20, 30 years. And so the pilots who we work with have got 20, 30,000 flying hours under their belts.
in particularly beautiful areas like Fiordland and they don’t need to work anymore. They’re just chilling, they’re having fun and one of the things that they like doing is taking people who are interested and showing them what they think is really special about what they love. So that’s the way for example we do helicopters. So it’s trying to take something on the surface, which is quite New Zealand, understand it.
Jason Elkins (04:28.535)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (04:38.67)
and then find a way of presenting it to our clients in a way that’s gonna blow their socks off and be really enjoyable. And it doesn’t need to be intellectually rigorous the whole time, that’s my job around the back to make sure that we hit the right points. But for clients, it’s just a fun day and a hell year. You just happen to be with someone extremely special and going to special places and eating special things. That’s it.
Jason Elkins (05:03.058)
No, that’s a yeah, that’s very cool. And I’ve, I’ve been fortunate to spend some time in New Zulu and some of those experiences were quite deep and others. I was just kind of clueless. I was driving around and just trying to figure stuff out on my own. Um, and it was always so much more valuable when I was with a Kiwi that, you know, was doing something they loved. And I think that that’s a, that’s kind of a thing throughout adventure tourism. When the guide’s having fun, I’ve, I’ve learned when the guide is having fun, generally the clients are having fun. And when they.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (05:12.46)
Hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (05:20.805)
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (05:31.906)
Absolutely.
Jason Elkins (05:32.722)
And when the guide is grumpy and just they’re putting in his, his hours, then it’s, it’s lackluster to say the best, I think. So.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (05:39.73)
Yep, you’re better off going for a walk on your own in that case. Yeah. Yeah, I learned that overseas with when we were on the diplomatic circuit. The question always in arriving into a new country is what are the locals doing? We weren’t interested in what the expats were doing because they were largely recreating their life back home. But what are the locals doing? That’s what we want to be doing. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (05:43.323)
Yeah, yeah, eggs.
Jason Elkins (05:59.306)
Hehehehe
Yeah. Well, I’m the same way in my travel. I’ve been traveling full time for the last couple of years and I’m actually, we’re recording this. I’m here in Columbia and I’ve made a point of wherever I stay, the first thing I want to know about that place is how, you know, is this where the tourists go? Cause if I don’t want to be there, I don’t, not that I don’t love of Americans or other expats, but realistically, when I pop into a little restaurant on the,
Jean-Michel Jefferson (06:18.742)
Mm.
Jason Elkins (06:30.262)
You know, Penadrea on the side of the road. The last thing I want to do is look around and see people look like me. Um, you know, doing the things that I would be doing. Cause then I don’t really get to figure out what’s going on in the, in the culture. So I get that completely. Tell me your wife, where is she? Where is she from?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (06:48.054)
She’s a Kiwi. She’s the reason that I went and found an atlas and worked out where New Zealand was many, many years ago. So, yeah.
Jason Elkins (06:55.31)
Okay, what you better she set up from New Zealand and you’re like, where’s that?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (06:59.774)
No, no, no. She said, I’m from New Zealand. I bet you don’t know where that is. I was quite keen on her at the time. So I had to look intelligent. And so I said, Oh, no,
Jason Elkins (07:16.255)
That’s meh.
Jason Elkins (07:21.335)
Yeah
Jason Elkins (07:25.71)
That’s very cool. And was she in, were you in Russia when you met her? What was, I guess I’m just fascinated by that. How did you, you know, with your background and then you’re working in Russia, you meet a Kiwi. So tell us more about that.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (07:31.358)
Yeah, yeah, that was London.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (07:38.53)
Yeah, I was doing my masters at the time in the UK and had gone down to London to for a party and she went to that same party and there we go.
Jason Elkins (07:48.802)
Very cool. Now, how, tell us a little bit about like how to her interest in tourism kind of align with yours has, are there conflicts there? Is it just a total perfect synergy? What does that look like? Because sometimes, sometimes it’s amazing when you’re both kind of on the same page and feel the same way. And other times I know of relationships that have fallen apart because one, one person is really into tourism and the other one just thinks they’re crazy. So what’s your deal?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (08:11.682)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (08:17.054)
Yeah, very, very lucky, very lucky. Because we’ve always enjoyed showing people around. Like when we lived in Moscow, we would love having friends visit us and we would show them what we’d found and we’d have a great time. In terms of what we do here, I am really, really interested in the going deep and in the people and so on. And she’s more of a, well, like a mom, an organizer.
So she organizes me. Our business would be a lot smaller if it was just me in it. But she’s put some fantastic systems around us and she handles the staff and she handles the legal side and the financial side and so on. So we have phenomenal systems and we’re extremely well looked after. And in terms of personal traveling style, she’s actually more adventurous than I am.
Like I find interesting locals and then get stuck in a bar with them and eat and drink. Whereas she walks up the mountains and jumps in the water and so on. So, so yeah, we both complement each other very, very well.
Jason Elkins (09:29.71)
That’s no, it sounds like a great fit. Could you mention several things there that just without those things, it would be hard to have a successful tour operation business. And you’ve got, you’ve managed to, it sounds like you’ve managed to find somebody that has those strengths that maybe are not your strengths. And that’s super important in any business. But I think tourism is a tough one because it can attract people that are just really excited about people, really excited about experiences and oftentimes not so excited about things like.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (09:38.3)
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (09:44.627)
Yep.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (09:53.736)
Mm. Mm, mm.
Jason Elkins (09:58.282)
accounting and financing marketing and stuff like that. So congratulations. I’ll say that right out, right, right there off the bat. So I’d love to get kind of an idea. You mentioned helicopters and the last time you and I spoke, you mentioned some stuff that I thought was really interesting around, you know, the Maori culture and, and some of this, I’m just going to go there. So tell us a little, get us kind of an overview of some of the stuff you do.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (10:16.322)
Mm.
Jason Elkins (10:27.714)
with emphasis on the stuff you really, really like because I know it’s there.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (10:32.786)
So we’re talking spiritual. So with Maori, like any First Nation around the world, have got a body of knowledge. And that body of knowledge is seen as sacred in certain places and often is guarded and not shared with outsiders. Maori here are quite courageous and they are open to sharing.
And so over the years, I arrived as a failed Catholic here, and Maori have rekindled my interest in spirituality. And encounters with Maori introduce you to their worldview, and their worldview has an acceptance.
of spirituality in an everyday sense. They live with the trees, they live with energy. Fairly much every Māori, unless they’ve been adopted by people like me, would have an uncle or a cousin who is deeply spiritual or a healer of some sort and so on. So they live with it every day. It’s not seen as something weird. It’s seen as a part of their community.
Jason Elkins (11:58.18)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (11:58.35)
the spiritual aspect of things. And over the years of sitting down with Maori and working out what they were about and what our clients could do with them. And we’ve done fairly much everything with Maori. We’ve hunted with Maori, fished with Maori, cooked with Maori, painted with Maori, weaved with Maori, been attacked by Maori. I ambushed a client with Maori, that was a cool one. And so on. So there was a number. So sitting down with them.
Jason Elkins (12:19.485)
Oh
Jean-Michel Jefferson (12:26.258)
It gradually opened my mind and opened my heart to their view of seeing things. To the extent that I had a, about eight, nine years ago, a spiritual transformation. And since then, I have been working as a sort of apprentice shaman with Māori, and on my own in this lovely country. And so there’s a lot here. There’s one place not far out of Christchurch,
which was called by the Dalai Lama, the spiritual center of the universe. So that place is zinging with energy. And Maori, when they came over to New Zealand, there was one of the first tribes came over from Easter Island. They came over to what they knew of as the birthplace of the gods, which was the same place. And that is the place deep below which the power of the earth and magma
Jason Elkins (12:58.903)
Hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (13:24.382)
tectonic plates and so on, would shoot up jade and they would come for the stone of the gods, which was the jade. And this is, I’ve got one of these here around my neck, and this is a high vibrating spiritual stone. So the whole reason the Maori were here in the first place is extremely spiritual. Also,
Jason Elkins (13:36.407)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (13:49.958)
up on the North Island around Lake Taupo. Lake Taupo is known as the heart chakra of New Zealand. And it’s got four elemental temples around it. And these temples are, there’s nothing standing there, but they are places of energy. And one of them, the Water Temple, is not only the Water Temple of New Zealand, it’s actually the Water Temple of the world. So again, another place of very powerful energy. So I think one of the reasons that…
that people really enjoy in New Zealand when they come here is that the energy is clear and it’s quite pure because we’ve had limited human impact here in New Zealand because we’re so far from everybody and we haven’t got big numbers here. So I think part of the reason that people really enjoy hiking up a mountain here is because the energy is clear. Why people really enjoy catching a trout, the energy is clear. Every day feels like a day in paradise.
Jason Elkins (14:33.923)
Right.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (14:45.278)
And I put that down to the energy of the country. And the energy of that country has been safeguarded over time by Maori. And so for me, Maori are the soul of New Zealand. And it would be, let’s say not the best option to come to New Zealand and not do anything with Maori. Because Maori connect you to the country.
Jason Elkins (15:09.043)
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (15:14.434)
So that’s a belief of mine. Of course, we’ve got people who are coming here and say, hey Jean-Michel, look, I get this and it’s all really interesting, but I’ve just got 10 days and I’ve had a real terrible year at work and everyone’s on top of my head. I just wanna walk up a mountain and jump in a raft. Okay, maybe next time I’ll go and talk to Maorik. Yep, not a problem, not a problem. Pfft.
Jason Elkins (15:32.95)
Hahaha
Jason Elkins (15:37.326)
That’s very cool. You said a lot of things that I found very fascinating. One of the things you started off with, you mentioned, you said that typically, you know, kind of the first world, not first world, first nations, oftentimes are kind of closed off about some of their stories. And you said that the Maori here have been quite open. And when you say that, I wasn’t sure, are we talking specifically right in the area where you’re working?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (15:55.266)
Thanks for watching!
Jean-Michel Jefferson (15:59.671)
Mmm.
Jason Elkins (16:07.226)
on the South Island or is just the Maori in New Zealand or the Maori other places? What can you tell us about that?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (16:08.15)
Yeah
Jean-Michel Jefferson (16:14.654)
It’s a very good question. Um, um, I was thinking about one particular group, um, like this particular group I found, um, quite a number of years ago, maybe 17, 18 years ago. And back in the day, I would guide my clients around the country. And so I would say, Hey guys, I love what you got. Can I bring some people and then we can just sit and chat like this. And that’s how it started. Um, and, and so I would bring people and we would say it.
And at the start, this particular Māori group didn’t really know how to relate because they lived in two worlds. Their own world where they kept things a bit hidden and the European world where you go out and buy a McDonald’s and make a wage and so on. And so their own world they were not used to sharing except amongst their own people. But they trusted me and they said, okay, and so it turned up.
Jason Elkins (17:00.118)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (17:12.37)
And then I would sit in the middle and be a little bit of an idiot and ask the questions that other people were scared to ask and crack a few jokes to make things a bit more chilled. And then I did that probably for a few years until I got a bit tired and stopped the guiding. But by that point, these guys were flying.
Jason Elkins (17:21.814)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (17:26.763)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (17:39.958)
they were off. And so people would turn up to them and they would crack jokes and tell stories and whatever. And so they were very good at breaking the ice and starting to share. Because by then, they’d built up the confidence because when you are a culture that’s been colonized, and that was a thing of the time, they were colonized, then your culture is downtrodden. It’s stamped on, and in some cases in a particularly brutal way.
Jason Elkins (17:41.57)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (18:10.886)
So you hide it and you don’t, to some extent you don’t value it or you think that other people other than your own will not value it. So what these guys saw is that every visitor I brought to them really valued what they had. And so it gave them confidence in their own culture and confidence then to talk about it. And then a wonderful understanding that their culture wasn’t a bad thing. It was actually a great thing.
And then the thing that makes me really, really proud is I mentioned these guys about 15 years ago. There were some little girls that came around that time on the Maori side. The youngest was probably about three at the time and oldest and sort of preteen. One of them is now a film star. Another one is a presenter on Maori TV. And another one is an absolutely beautiful vocal performer. So I look at it and I’d like to take.
Jason Elkins (19:01.43)
Hmm
Jean-Michel Jefferson (19:04.886)
tiny, tiny little bit of the credit myself for giving them the confidence in their own culture just to stand up and be exponents of it. So that I’m really quite proud of. So the answer is, yeah, I can’t take all the credit for anything like that. In general, New Zealand is a gentle place. In general, it’s a place where culture is valued. And I’ve been lucky enough to be at the forefront of helping to bring some of that culture out in the world.
and the specific circumstances of tourism. Now, there are lots of extremely well-spoken Maori in all aspects of life who can champion their culture much, much better than I can. So it’s something that’s just really grown and grown and grown over the last 20 years with the growth of Maori TV, with the growth of funding.
Jason Elkins (19:54.55)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:02.378)
back into their communities and with the growing confidence that finding their own voice again has given them. And our guys are one small part of it, so I’m happy to have been a part of that journey.
Jason Elkins (20:15.458)
That sounds very, very cool. And at the, at the core of that, what I hear is just a personal curiosity. I hear you being curious. You go show up in the middle of the circle and ask the questions that other people are at a little intimidated to ask. And anytime you come across somebody that does that, you’re like, Oh, it’s curiosity, that’s just part of their nature, which I like to think curiosity is tied to intelligence. That’s what I’ve always told people in my life, because I’m super curious. Sometimes the curious.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:21.644)
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:33.304)
Yep.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:43.443)
Hahaha
Jason Elkins (20:45.258)
person that’s probably very intelligent doesn’t sound very intelligent but it’s because if they don’t understand the question I’m gonna ask I don’t care how dumb it sounds and so anyway so I admire that and that type of person is exactly the type of person that makes the best guide you know or working in this industry because if your guides not curious I don’t even I can’t even imagine wanting to spend time with a guide that’s not curious yeah so
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:48.7)
you
Jean-Michel Jefferson (20:54.826)
Yep. Yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (21:01.826)
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (21:11.77)
Exactly, exactly. I believe we’re here to learn and asking questions is a large part of learning. Yeah, and it doesn’t just have to be significant spiritual stuff. We’ve got a winemaker here who is phenomenal. There’s two major wine shows in the world. There’s the LA one and there’s the London one. And this guy’s won the prize for best Pinot Noir at the London one four times out of his little homegrown winery here in New Zealand.
Jason Elkins (21:17.664)
Yah, yah!
Jason Elkins (21:36.555)
Yeah?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (21:40.57)
And the question I asked him was, how exactly did it go down when you were arrested for playing tennis naked with two French hitchhikers in California?
Jason Elkins (21:54.391)
Oh boy. And maybe some other stuff, some other spiritual tools. Yeah, okay, interesting. I have a feeling you’ve got a bunch of stories that probably I need to have a whole spin off podcast to talk about stuff like that. And actually, okay, I got it.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (21:55.96)
What, what, what was involved? Was it wine? Hahahaha!
Jean-Michel Jefferson (22:03.522)
hahahaha
Jean-Michel Jefferson (22:07.554)
the
Jason Elkins (22:19.222)
I’m not very good at writing down my thoughts because I don’t I want to hear everything you say But questions come up every once while and there’s a couple I want to ask you and This goes back to just being curious and not knowing so I’m gonna ask anyway And I feel like I should know because I’ve spent time in New Zealand and Australia and a little bit anyway So do we only find Maori’s on New Zealand and New Zealand?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (22:44.426)
Ah, okay, yeah, good question again. Well, okay, where do I start? First of all, there’s no such thing as Maori. Maori is a word that was given to the local population in New Zealand by people when they arrived here, typically Europeans. So they know each other as tribes. And there’s a number of tribes, a bit like in the States, Sitting Bull wouldn’t stand up and say,
Yeah, I am an Indian. He wouldn’t say that, would he? No, he would say, I am a Sioux or I’m a Cheyenne or a Arapaho or whatever. So it’s the same here. It’s tribal. And there were movements of tribes from Ireland to Ireland, as I alluded to before. And so there’s a relationship between all the peoples of the Pacific, the Polynesians, depending upon
Jason Elkins (23:14.238)
I’m an Indian, yeah.
Jason Elkins (23:20.386)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (23:31.19)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (23:40.37)
where the canoes or what we call the waka, where the waka went. So there are some close relations and some not so close relations. So the Polynesians tend to all be a bit related. So Polynesians, you’re looking at, yes, Samoa, Tonga, Hawaii, Tahiti and so on. One that’s very close to the people here is the Cook Islands. Cook Islands, a three hour flight north of us.
Jason Elkins (23:44.899)
Hm hm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (24:07.074)
You’re there and it’s very difficult to see much difference between the locals there and Maori.
Jason Elkins (24:14.602)
But if you were on the Cook Islands, if you’re in the Cook Islands and said, oh, there’s some Maori, Maori people around, you’re really showing your ignorance because it’s, that’s just not how it works. They might be very similar.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (24:27.206)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you could say they cook islanders, but then you’re showing a different form of ignorance. And then you say that they, from the actual island that they’re from, so they’re Rarotongan. The main islands of the Cook Island is Rarotonga. Cook Islands, obviously, was a name that was given by Europeans. So Rarotongans. Or if you’re gonna be properly respectful, it’s the tribe. Because in the Maori world,
power flows up. So the most powerful unit in the Māori world is the family, and then from the family the power flows up to the sub-tribe and then to the main tribe. And that’s the importance. Yeah, whoever’s on top is not so important. Direct is there. Yeah, they’re just there to take falls.
Jason Elkins (25:09.302)
OK.
Jason Elkins (25:12.613)
Oh, interesting. I like that.
All right, cool. Well, that’s, that’s good information to know. And the other thing is when I heard you earlier speaking about, you mentioned, I believe the heart Taupo Lake Taupo being the heart chakra of New Zealand. Okay. So that’s a terminology that I associate with kind of Hindu spirituality. It’s not something I would think of as Australia or Australia, New Zealand, or anywhere else other than the Hindu world. So is that.
Is that type of terminology the way you’re talking about it? Is that an adaptation that you’ve kind of made? Or if I was speaking with the Maori people, they would talk about Taupo being the heart chakra of New Zealand.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (25:58.602)
Again, it’s absolutely Southeast Asian. Yeah. Now, it’s like everything in the world. We’ve all grown with each other and learned from each other. So, yeah, you talk chakra, you’re talking Hindu, Buddhists, and so on. But my belief is a lot of these beliefs, and especially First Nation beliefs,
a huge amount of links. I wish I could go back to university and do a paper on comparative religion. But there’s a lot of links and parallels between a number of these different belief systems. And I don’t believe in coincidences.
Jason Elkins (26:44.522)
Yeah. Okay. Very cool. And, and that part of the world’s not that far from, uh, you know, some of these other Southeast Asia, it’s, we’re all, it’s a, this is a small world. Notice the name of the podcast, big world made small. We’re, we’re bringing it, we’re tying it all together. So thanks for helping with that. Appreciate that. Um.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (26:58.698)
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Jean-Michel Jefferson (27:06.256)
Yeah, we’re about a 12-hour flight from Hong Kong, but we’re also a 12-hour flight from LA down here.
Jason Elkins (27:15.174)
Yeah, it is. It’s great. It is a bit remote from maybe not if you’re living there. Maybe it doesn’t feel remote. I don’t know, but definitely.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (27:22.138)
Yeah, yeah, when I was living in, when I was, when I used to be a European, I would think anything over four hours was long. But living down here 12 hours is just a nice little sleep and you’re in a new place.
Jason Elkins (27:29.334)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (27:36.631)
It’s a really good way to look at it. So what are you doing most of your business on? And I’m not sure how relevant it is. If it’s not relevant, you can just tell me that. But, you know, North Island, South Island, I’ve been to both, but only a limited amount of time and people sometimes ask, well, should I go to the North Island? Should I go to the South Island? I’m curious what your thoughts are if somebody’s asking you that.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (27:45.284)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (27:49.385)
Mm, mm, mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (27:58.87)
Yep, I’ve been asked this question multiple times a year for 20 years and my answer has stayed the same, which is see both. Unless you have a ridiculously small amount of time, see both. Now, the internet says go south, but the internet says obvious things. And so the, why do I say see both?
Jason Elkins (28:04.682)
I’m guessing. OK.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (28:26.338)
When we talk to clients, I don’t sit down and say, hey, you’ve got to do Maori stuff because that’s what interests me and that’s it. What we do is we listen to what people actually want to do and enjoy doing. We’re blessed in this country by having a lot of world-class activities. Just to give people who are not aware of it, we have world-class fly fishing for trout, world-class sea fishing.
Jason Elkins (28:35.266)
Hehehe
Jean-Michel Jefferson (28:52.698)
We’ve got world record striped marlin, world record yellowtail kingfish and so on. So the sea fishing is phenomenal. We go out, we put a line in the water, we expect to get something. It’s not like Northern Hemisphere where your grandfather once got something here. We actually expect to get something. We’ve got world-class hikes that people have heard about. The hunting, I know is a bad word these days, but a lot of animals here were introduced, they’re seen as pests.
The government used to employ hunters to try and keep the pest numbers down. And what are our pests? Our pests are world record red stags, world record seeker stags, Himalayan tar, which are endangered in the Himalayas, but shot like pests by the Department of Conservation here and so on. So for people who are interested in that side of things, it’s actually eco-hunting in New
Jason Elkins (29:36.13)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (29:49.675)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (29:50.974)
So superb hunting, superb fishing, superb hiking, superb rafting, this is the place where bungee jumping was invented. So the adventure activities out here are phenomenal, off-road motorcycling, on-road motorcycle, and some of the best helicoptering in the world. Superb sailing, why are there so many New Zealand sailors in the America’s Cup? Well, because it’s pretty nice places to sail around here. World record wines that we touched on, some great food. So, yeah.
So you’re beginning with a whole palette of very, very high quality options in this country, in a country that’s not too big, not too small. It’s long and thin. It’s the length of the Eastern Seaboard of the US. So you can’t get around it in three days on a bicycle. But it’s not so huge like Australia that everything is a logistical issue. So…
When I’m explaining why you need to go to both islands, or not why you need to go to both islands, because you don’t actually need to do anything, but why I recommend going to both islands, North Ireland has got the finest beaches, absolutely superb beaches. It’s got the finest sailing. It’s got the geothermal activity. It’s got the best rainforest. And it’s got most of our Maori culture up in the North Island because it was warmer up there. So…
If any of those things are of interest, North Island is the place to go. And those are all pretty high quality things. South Island feels like a totally different country. I’ve not been to Colorado, but I’ve been told it’s a lot like Colorado. So we’ve got the big Alpine range coming down here. Great big mountains, big braided rivers. The North Island’s got, well, I always
get the numbers wrong but the North Island’s got roughly three and a half million people on it. The South Island’s got roughly one and a half million people on it and it’s slightly bigger. So you’ve got far fewer people on the South Island which is pretty nice as well. So both islands have got enormous strengths and my recommendation is to see both.
Jason Elkins (32:09.01)
Yeah. Now I think that’s having seen both, everything you said just resonated and made sense. And yeah, absolutely. I’d go along with that because, you know, it’s not uncommon to go to Europe and maybe do France and Germany, you know, and going to New Zealand and doing North Island and South Island is kind of like that. It’s not hard. It’s not so, like you said, it’s not so big of a country that you’re going to be on a plane for four hours to get from one island to the next.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (32:25.607)
Mm, mm, mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (32:31.545)
Mmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (32:38.388)
Mm. Mm, mm.
Jason Elkins (32:39.262)
Right there, as I recall, it was relatively inexpensive to move between the islands. Um, and you mentioned kind of the South Island, maybe being like Colorado. My impression of the South Island was it was, yeah, it was like being in the Colorado Rockies or I grew up in Wyoming. I’m from Wyoming. So maybe around Yellowstone or something like that. But the difference was that you could get in the car and drive for like, it seemed like an hour and you were on the coast.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (32:57.482)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (33:07.486)
And the coast was like the Pacific Northwest or the inside passage. So you could go from the Colorado Rockies to the inside passage north of Seattle in like an hour, which just blew me away. And then if you go down around Christchurch, it’s a little bit different. Christchurch was kind of reminded me like Southern California without all this, the negative stuff that you have in Southern California. And yeah, so it’s that’s I think you I think that’s great. Great advice.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (33:09.91)
Mm-hmm. That’s right. That’s right.
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (33:19.363)
Mm. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (33:36.666)
And one thing, I mean, obviously you’re a tour operator, so you’re able to put together a whole package for people. And, um, as somebody that travels full time and likes a certain amount of independence, I tend to, you know, I’ll go rent a car, um, you know, just drive around, explore. Cause sometimes that’s how I want to do it. So I’m curious, like if somebody, you know, what do you want to share with somebody that’s thinking about going to New Zealand?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (33:42.571)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (33:57.865)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:03.01)
Do they need to be with a tour operator? What are the advantages, disadvantages? Is it okay to come rent a car for a couple of weeks and spend a few days with your Maori guides or what does that look like?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (34:15.651)
My recommendation is to go with a specialist because if you don’t you drive past stuff that you didn’t even know was there. But my recommendation is to, the way that we’ve evolved over time, like when I started out I was the guide and I would take people places. What we recommend to people now is that they don’t have a full-time guide. What we recommend is that you have your own car.
Jason Elkins (34:24.738)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (34:40.926)
because it’s your holiday and it’s about also being a bit independent. So the roads here are easy enough. Our GPS is good enough that it’s not a huge task, especially in the South Island, getting around. So we recommend rental cars. If you want a spare day, go ahead. But I can guarantee that your spare days will be a bit boring compared to the days that we put together. And
Jason Elkins (35:07.471)
Yeah, yeah, I’m sure.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (35:10.122)
But it’s nice to have a day out here and there. And I enjoy it myself in different places. But I wouldn’t go for too many because there’s too many interesting things to do. And in that case, yeah, ask. It’s worth having the knowledge of where to go. So I would say a combination. Get in your own car, have the ability to get lost somewhere if you can. But on the other side, we’re a small country here and…
If you don’t pre-book something, there’s a chance you won’t be able to get it. Um, like we have some guides who are really, really special. Um, and those guides, if you’re trying to get them a week in advance, you could probably hear the laughter all the way across the Pacific. Um, yeah, it’s just not possible, not physically possible. Um, so, so if you’re someone who absolutely wants independence, then I would say, okay, select the things that you would feel.
Jason Elkins (35:56.354)
Hehehe
Jean-Michel Jefferson (36:09.35)
terrible if you missed out and let’s book those in advance and let’s leave everything else open. That would be a sort of compromise because yeah, we can’t guarantee they’ll be there when you’re ready for them.
Jason Elkins (36:22.97)
I think that New Zealand specifically, there’s other places as well, but New Zealand is one of those places that really caters well to that type of scenario. You know, book the car, use, use your own car for your own, your own rental car for getting from place to place, but we’re going to put together an itinerary for you so you know, you’re staying in places that match what you want or, and you’ve got the guides and you’ve got the activities all set up, but we don’t need to have a transfer driver hanging out with you.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (36:38.545)
Mm. Mm-mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (36:45.108)
Mmm.
Mm-mm.
Jason Elkins (36:51.67)
for a week driving you from spot to spot. Whereas maybe you’d wanna do that if you were in Tanzania or some other country where it makes sense.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (36:52.83)
Absolutely.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (36:58.59)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you don’t need it here, the constant driver. What it also does is it saves you money, which you can then put into funky things like helicopters and fishing trips and so on, yeah.
Jason Elkins (37:15.27)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and just like, you know, if you’re an English speaker, New Zealand, it’s, I didn’t always understand everything I was being told. But relatively, it wasn’t that difficult. You know, you can walk into a grocery store if you want a snack, you can walk into a restaurant and figure it out. So you don’t need to have, you’re not going to starve to death.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (37:23.966)
It’s…
Jean-Michel Jefferson (37:34.506)
Mm.
Jason Elkins (37:40.766)
I remember finding some pretty cool, actually pretty cool things in the grocery stores, just as I was driving around and go in and get a bag of, was it, uh, was it mint lamb with mint sauce, potato chips. That’s cool. You know, or like a package of blue mussels and just, you know, driving down in the rental car, eating mussels are.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (37:45.15)
Mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (37:55.146)
pies. Oh right, yeah yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (38:05.186)
There.
Jason Elkins (38:08.482)
The blue or the green lip muscles, I can’t remember. But anyway, it was just such a fun experience. And having a little bit of that independence to go just stumble across things every once in a while can be a lot of fun.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (38:22.17)
I think it’s an essential part of a journey. For example, if you look at how one of those might work practically with us, we would tend not to recommend any drives over three hours. And so you’d have a day to get from A to B and we’d mention half a dozen things along the way and then you’re off. Go and do whatever you want. Pick up hitchhikers. Have a great time.
Jason Elkins (38:26.229)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (38:41.974)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (38:48.311)
Well, are there any, because when people travel, they tend to want to ask safety considerations. I’m not sure, but I felt like New Zealand was like this one of the safest places on earth. But I’m curious, what do you want people to know about safety considerations?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (38:55.541)
Mm, mm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (39:00.894)
Yeah. Yep.
Yep, extremely safe compared to anywhere else. Having said that, not as safe as it used to be because progress hits us all. There are drug-based gangs here. So there are in some of the bigger cities, some areas that you would probably not wanna spend too long in. Not nearly as unsafe as some of your big metropolises in the States.
Not everyone here is carrying. And if they are carrying it would be a hunting rifle. So yeah, it’s very safe. But keep your wits about you always, I would say. But we do actually still have hitchhikers here. And I used to pick them up myself because I’d drive around a bit for work.
checking out new places and so I’d give these guys a lift until I worked out that they were several generations removed from me and weren’t capable of talking. And I thought, wow, so yeah, exactly, exactly. So what was that’s right. Yeah. So there I was being a nice guy. You’re regarded with suspicion and ignored in your own car.
Jason Elkins (40:12.221)
What’s the point? There’s no benefit. A little bit of risk, no benefit.
Jason Elkins (40:21.534)
the
Jason Elkins (40:28.803)
You’re right though, when you say a few generations removed. I mean, I remember growing up, I grew up with my father. We’d spend the summers traveling the country to balloon festivals. And his whole plan for, okay, I’ve got to drive a thousand miles in two days. His whole plan was dependent on hitchhikers. He would literally, we first hitchhiker. He saw that he thought looked like maybe could drive the truck. We’d pull over the guy, get in. So it’d be my dad.
Me and my brother, when we were like 11 or 12, the dog and the hitchhiker in the front of a pickup truck and we didn’t have a crew cab or extended cab and I had to literally just pretty much sleep and let whoever it was drive. I remember several trips clear across North America. We had one guy that rode with us all the way from Sheridan, Wyoming to I think Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is, you know, 1500 miles or whatever. And it rained the whole way. I remember. Yeah. A lot of.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (40:59.484)
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (41:10.658)
Cool! Very cool!
Jason Elkins (41:25.526)
So, but, but you know, I don’t think I would do that now. I know I would, I know I wouldn’t do that now. And yeah, yeah. So anyway, that was a little diversion. You, you, you mentioned, I want to ask you one story because I think it’s gonna be good. And then we’ll figure out if, if there’s anything else we need to cover before we go. But this, you said you did a kind of a mock kidnapping or attack or assault on one of your clients.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (41:30.038)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (41:54.036)
Hehe
Jason Elkins (41:55.134)
And I thought we should probably address that now. So there’s no confusion. Like what the hell is going on in New Zealand with Jean Michel and his operation. So tell us, tell us that story. Cause I’m.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (42:06.302)
Okay, okay. I think this must be the ambush. So this was in the early stages of me sitting down with Maori mates and having a giggle and working out how we could have fun with tourists. And the Maori way of meeting people you don’t know is quite, it’s a challenge. And so they come at you with Ta Ha.
Jason Elkins (42:10.145)
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (42:35.85)
the quarter staff and you’re what it did to explain the whole thing in depth would probably take too long for right now but they’re there to make sure that you come in peace and so they come at you aggressively and you’ve got a sort of chill and show you show your hands and smile not smile too much that’s another story and generally show that you’re
you’re not there to wipe out the village. So we thought, sitting down with this guy, who’s really fierce, he’s got tattoos all over the place, and he was a prospect for one of our motorcycle gangs and then joined the military instead. So this guy’s pretty fierce. And so we thought, well, maybe we should recreate one of the first meetings between Europeans. This was a European super yacht owner.
between Europeans and Maori. And he said, what do you mean? I said, well, what about we have him walking along a path in the middle of nowhere and he’s got no idea what’s going on and looking at some trees and we just jump him and do the welcome, do the welcome and see how it goes. And he go, oh, cool, yeah, let’s do that. So we ran it past the super yacht captain who was also a New Zealander.
Jason Elkins (43:49.774)
Hahahaha
Jason Elkins (43:58.407)
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (44:04.082)
And he said, oh yeah, let’s try that. And we only did it once. And so I was with this nice couple and their incredibly irritating ADHD nine-year-old son who was used to having staff around. And this little idiot spent most of his time doing the opposite of anything I asked him to do.
Jason Elkins (44:04.301)
Huh?
Jason Elkins (44:10.724)
I’m sorry.
Jason Elkins (44:25.068)
I’m sorry.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (44:33.25)
So I was a little bit unimpressed with him. So we’re walking along this path in the middle of nowhere, and I’m pointing at the few trees I know and explaining what they are. And this little boy keeps running ahead. And I keep saying, come back, come back, because I know what’s going to happen. And he doesn’t come back. And I think, OK, you little bastard, you know, you’ll get what’s coming to you. So then we hear this conch in the distance. And I go.
a bit strange and the clients are immediately, what’s that? What’s going on? I said, well it’s Maori but they shouldn’t be here. And they went, what? So is it something wrong? And I said, no, we should be okay. Let’s just carry on. We should be okay. It’s a good one, isn’t it? So we carried on walking and then Hone, the main Maori guy,
Jason Elkins (45:20.622)
It should be OK. I think we’re OK, yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (45:32.97)
out did himself this time. He was hiding behind a tree and he jumped out into the middle of this path and he was only 10 feet in front of us and we hadn’t seen a thing and suddenly this great big fierce tattooed warrior is in front of us going, the little kid, he turned around and it was like out of the cartoons where he was four inches off the ground and his feet were going like that before he was moving and then he just went.
Jason Elkins (45:48.119)
Ha ha ha!
Jason Elkins (45:58.754)
Hehe
Jean-Michel Jefferson (46:02.742)
I went straight past me. Mum running after him to go and drag him back. The super yacht captain running after them to drag them back. The dad turned around to go. I put my hand on his shoulder and said, relax, you’re okay. And so he relaxed. The captain brought the others back. The kid was shaking. I was really happy to see. And then we progressed. We progressed into prayers and songs and all sorts.
Jason Elkins (46:20.302)
Hehehehehehe
Jean-Michel Jefferson (46:31.728)
And for them they said it was…
Jason Elkins (46:32.258)
Did this, did this young boy pay a little bit more attention to you going forward? He was kind of like, okay, I’m going to, I’m just going to do exactly what I’m supposed to do. I probably scared the crap out of him.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (46:37.006)
I was just too…
Jean-Michel Jefferson (46:40.518)
Exactly. That was the last, I think that was the last day I had him unfortunately. Yeah but um yeah, yeah that was it. Yeah it was fun and these guys said that it was the favorite day of their trip but we could easily have given the guys a heart attack so we thought no we can’t do that again.
Jason Elkins (46:48.54)
But that was the only time you did it. So it was like, OK, that was fun, but.
Jason Elkins (47:02.206)
Well, yeah. And the news, like the news story that would come out of that is, you know, tourist, European tourist attacked by Maori warriors found dead in the woods. Right. With your name all over it. Yeah. I could see where that might not be good for tourism. But it was, but it’s one of those things you got to do once because now you got a story.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (47:12.126)
Hahahaha
Jean-Michel Jefferson (47:22.172)
Yeah, we thought that the risk reward effect was just, yeah.
Jason Elkins (47:30.666)
But you know, one time you got a story, three times you might have really bad publicity. So I like that. We, when I was growing up and we were traveling around flying balloons and my dad had some clients that were quite challenging. We’d met them in the morning, went out to set up the balloon. My dad and his partner, who’s also a balloon pilot, were there. My dad was the pilot that met the clients. Okay, I’m your pilot. We’re going to fly.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (47:35.724)
Hahaha
Jason Elkins (47:59.33)
And immediately this guy was just a jerk. He was very annoying. And my dad and his buddy had this idea. So my dad introduced this, his, his partner as another passenger. So this other, so his partner now is another passenger. And so they get the balloon all set up. They get the guy and his wife in the basket and this other passenger to just happen to be a single guy that was just going along for a ride. He gets in the basket and he starts.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (48:17.096)
Oh, good.
Jason Elkins (48:27.438)
kind of doing the mentally challenged type of thing. Like, what is this? And he’s just really, really dumb questions and just kind of acting very, very strange. And so my dad’s in the basket, and they’re getting ready to go, and his partner is acting like kind of an idiot. And my dad’s like, oh, I forgot something in the truck. And he jumps out of the basket. And if you know anything about hot air balloons, when you get a balloon ready to launch,
Jean-Michel Jefferson (48:50.685)
I know. Ha ha ha.
Jason Elkins (48:57.45)
All of the sudden, the balloon goes up. So my dad hops out of the basket to go get something out of the truck and the balloon immediately starts taking off into the air. And this guy and his wife are like, what the hell? And my dad’s partner is like, oh, I think I can do this. I think I got this. And he just kind of like started messing around with stuff. And these people thought, oh, geez, we’re in this balloon with this mentally challenged person who thinks he knows how to fly a balloon.
And then finally, you know, Don, my dad’s partner, Don was able to, you know, kind of convince him that he actually did not have a flight. He had to pull out his wallet and show his pilot’s license. And we were just messing with you. And after that, the guy was the coolest. He was just, you know, they went on, had the flight and had a lot of fun and just, you know, we told that story for a long time. So it’s…
Jean-Michel Jefferson (49:51.458)
That’s quite, it actually reminds me of the, you know, when we see people coming to New Zealand, they do tend to bring all the hassles that they’re trying to leave behind with them. They’ve been working really hard to try and get some time off, whatever, whatever. They’ve had to deal with some idiots on the flight over. So they arrive with a slightly aggressive mindset. But we find after a Maori experience, that’s gone. So that’s a nice, nice way of just.
Jason Elkins (50:17.226)
Yeah, that’s cool.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (50:20.79)
getting people just to drop the rubbish and get on with being human beings.
Jason Elkins (50:24.062)
It is. Yeah, it is. What do they call it? A pattern interrupt, right? With a lot of kind of that neuro-linguistical programming is they’ve they’re going in this direction. They’ve been going in this direction for quite a while. Sometimes it’s just like a scary Maori warrior jumping out of the woods. And it’s like, OK, whatever you’ve been thinking about for the last three years, just very abruptly stopped.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (50:30.251)
Mmm. Ah!
Jean-Michel Jefferson (50:42.134)
Yeah, yeah, just a poof, yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (50:48.982)
Drop it. There.
Jason Elkins (50:51.782)
And now you’re open to going in different directions. So it’s kind of a, yeah, yeah. No, it’s a pretty cool thing. Just to get people to quit thinking, like I went on a fishing trip in Canada with a guy. I mean, the first hour we’re walking out through the woods and he’s going, hey bear, hey bear, hey bear. And I’m like, what are you doing? I’m trying to alert the bears that were coming because there’s a lot of bears in this area and if we don’t want to surprise them.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (50:55.166)
Ah cool, I didn’t know it was a thing. Yeah, it’s something I’ve noticed, but yeah, cool.
Jason Elkins (51:21.198)
And believe me, I was not thinking about anything else. I wasn’t thinking about work. I wasn’t thinking about any fights I’d had with any family members, my wife, anything I was thinking about the bear. And then mysteriously after about an hour or so, he quit doing it. And we were out there all day. We walked back through the same area. So I always wondered and I wish I’d asked, maybe I should find him in an interview on the podcast. I always wondered if that was just his strategy of just getting people.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (51:26.052)
Hahaha!
Jean-Michel Jefferson (51:30.594)
Hehehehe
Jean-Michel Jefferson (51:49.842)
Mmm.
Jason Elkins (51:51.21)
to kind of shift gears and get out of their head and get into the present moment. Because I was definitely in the present moment. And the rest of the day, I was like, it wasn’t like I was scared. It was just like, I was OK, I’m here. Paying attention. I’m looking down the trail. I’m seeing the trees. I’m seeing the woods. I’m smelling things. I’m I was very, very in the moment. So anyway, just I thought that was pretty cool. So yeah, I bet.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (51:54.086)
Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (52:02.294)
Yeah, yeah.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (52:14.158)
Very interesting, yeah, you’ve given me some ideas.
Jason Elkins (52:20.374)
I don’t think you’re gonna get away with the bear thing though. I don’t think that’s gonna be a stretch Actually, you probably could get away with it. I hate to say There’s probably a number of tourists that could show up there that would not know any better. So anyway There you go, so anyway Jump yourself. Thank you so much for being here the conversation That was that was a lot of fun. Is there is there I can’t remember if I even asked you this Is there anything I forgot to ask anything you want to make sure that we share?
Jean-Michel Jefferson (52:23.254)
No.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (52:34.012)
Or a Sasquatch costume.
Jason Elkins (52:49.334)
before we wrap it up.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (52:50.954)
No, no, we can probably carry this on for hours and have lots of fun. But no, no. I think we’ve covered everything and I think people have got an idea of what they’re dealing with. And if it appeals, they know where to find it.
Jason Elkins (52:54.934)
I think so too.
Jason Elkins (53:05.342)
All right. Cool. Yeah, we’re going to have a link to your website in the show notes. This is really all just about connecting with people. I believe it’s all about connecting with people. And if somebody is listening to this and feels connected with you and has an inkling to go see New Zealand, then obviously the choice the choice will be obvious. They’ll connect with you. And and I think they’ll have an amazing time.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (53:18.056)
Yep.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (53:30.686)
There’s a lovely Māori proverb which is, what are the three most important things in life, is the question. And the answer is, hetangata, hetangata. The people, the people, the people. And that’s very much how Māori see things. That’s how we in New Zealand see things. And that’s exactly what you were saying just now. So yeah, it’s all people.
Jason Elkins (53:46.102)
UGH
Jason Elkins (53:52.842)
My mic drop, mic drop. That’s a good spot to wrap it up. Okay, I suspect you and I’ll have many more conversations. I look forward to collaborating on some projects with you in the future and Jean-Michel, thank you so much. Appreciate it. That was a lot of fun.
Jean-Michel Jefferson (54:04.342)
Cool. Thank you very much. Cheers.
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