Thanks for visiting from LinkedIn. Most sites, including this one, may not display properly inside the LinkedIn app. For the best experience, tap the three dots in the top right corner of your screen and choose “Open in Browser.” ~ Jason | Big World Made Small

Episode #161: Keith Sproule

Executive Director

Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy

Episode #161: Keith Sproule
Video Episode
No Ad Breaks
Play Clip
Full Episode
Download Short Video Clip to Share Download Cover Art to Share

Follow, Rate, or Provide a Testimonial

Guest Bio

Keith Sproule is the Executive Director of Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy (AKP), where he oversees a global portfolio of 73 community-led projects across 30 countries. With a career spanning over three decades, Keith has worked extensively in sustainable tourism and development, advising ministries and nonprofits on five continents. His expertise bridges ecotourism, conservation, and community investment — with fieldwork ranging from joint-venture tourism in Namibia with the World Wildlife Fund to strategic tourism planning in Georgia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and beyond.

Keith’s background includes serving as a Fulbright Scholar in Belize, acting as a tourism lead in post-conflict regions like Kosovo and Cyprus, and holding leadership roles in international organizations such as The International Ecotourism Society and the Wild Foundation. His work consistently centers on the belief that travel can be a force for good — creating real impact through thoughtful, place-based engagement with local communities.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Keith about the deep intersection between travel, philanthropy, and lasting impact. As Executive Director of Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy, Keith shares how AKP supports local communities through strategic investments in education, healthcare, job creation, and conservation — often in places that travelers may never see, but whose lives are touched by responsible tourism.

Recorded in a casual coffee shop setting, the conversation dives into Keith’s personal journey — from his early travel experiences to a career spent fostering meaningful connections between travelers and the communities they visit. He offers heartfelt stories from the field, like how a simple school lunch in Uganda can spark broader community engagement, and how small-scale investments can ripple outward to create systemic change. For anyone interested in making their travel matter, Keith offers both inspiration and practical insights.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Travel choices can have lasting, positive impacts on local communities
  • ✓ A nutritious school lunch in Uganda costs just 21 cents — and changes lives
  • ✓ Sustainable tourism is most effective when communities are active partners
  • ✓ Philanthropy isn’t innate — it’s something we can all learn and grow into
  • ✓ Authentic travel fosters compassion, curiosity, and cultural understanding
  • ✓ Long-term change comes from investing in education and healthcare
  • ✓ Collaboration amplifies efficiency and scale in global development projects
  • ✓ Personal travel stories can shape lifelong missions of service and impact
  • ✓ Even modest interventions can lead to structural improvements in communities
  • ✓ Smiles and shared moments build the human connections that matter most

What You’ll Find on Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy

  • Global projects focused on education, conservation, and healthcare
  • Initiatives co-designed with communities in over 30 countries
  • Impact-driven travel experiences that give back to local regions
  • Programs that empower women, youth, and under-resourced areas
  • Stories that reveal how tourism can drive meaningful change
  • Opportunities for travelers to engage in purpose-driven philanthropy

Learn more about Abercrombie & Kent Philanthropy and connect with Keith at:

https://www.akphilanthropy.org/

Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Guest support helps make the episode possible, but it does not determine who is featured. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.

Guest access: enter your password to unlock your resources.

Guest & Partner Resources (Private)

Thank you Keith, for being a Base Camp Partner with us.

Please note: You have been given a complimentary upgrade to Base Camp Partner, and now have access to all of the relevant benefits outlined below.

We’d love to have you join us at the next level and get even more out of your appearance on the Big World Made Small Podcast.

Below you will find access to tools to help you promote your episode and get the most from your partnership benefits. This section is only visible when you use the link we sent, or by entering the password BWMS8873. Do not share the email we sent, or the password, unless you want the person to access the following resources.

Follow, Rate, or Provide a Testimonial

Please use this tracking link to share with your audience:
https://bigworldmadesmall.com/guest/keith-sproule/?ref=guest8873

Cover Art

This is available to all podcast guests.

Episode #161: Keith Sproule
Video Episode
No Ad Breaks
Play Clip
Full Episode

Download the file to use on your website or social media posts.

Download Short Video Clip to Share Download Cover Art to Share

Buzzsprout Audio Player

This is available to all podcast guests.

This is the best option for website embeds, especially prior to the release date. Guests can listen to your episode on your website. This player keeps listeners on your site, which is why I use it.

Use this code to embed your Buzzsprout Player directly on your website:

<div id="buzzsprout-player-18524694"></div><script src="https://www.buzzsprout.com/2216718/episodes/18524694-adventure-travel-with-keith-sproule-abercrombie-kent-philanthropy.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-18524694&player=small" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>

Full-Length YouTube Video Player

This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.

You can share it before the release date, but your video won’t be searchable on YouTube until the release date. The player allows site visitors to watch your episode directly on your site.

Use this code to embed your YouTube Video directly on your website:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OKYbieUQwWc?si=BoLuFaSzrkVr2VQS&rel=0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

45 Minute One-on-One Website Review

This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.

Your package includes a 45 minute video call where I will be your second set of eyeballs as we go through your website looking for a handful of changes or updates you can make to improve your conversions. I will share my feedback and you can share it with your marketing team, or we can explore ways that I may be able to help you make the changes. This is not a sales call, it’s an idea session that will give you some actionable insights and you can decide how to implement them.

Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©

This is available to Expedition & Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

All Video & Audio Files with Rights to Repurpose

This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

45 Minute Content Strategy Session

This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

Custom Branded Video Clips (12 clips)

This is available to Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

2 x 45 Minute Digital Marketing Strategy Sessions

This is available to Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

Review & Suggest Topic Tags

Review Episode Topics

Suggestions only

These topic suggestions help keep this episode profile accurate and easier to find. Your suggestions will be reviewed before any changes are made.

Select up to 8 topic tags.
Suggested new topics will not be added automatically. They will be reviewed first.

Podcast Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.

Jason Elkins (00:00.943)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today and also super excited to have my guest with us today. We’ve got Keith Sproule Keith is the executive director of Abercrombie and Kent Philanthropy. Keith, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here. Yeah, we’ve spoken a couple times and we’re finally here in a spot where we can record the conversation and share it with our audiences.

Keith Sproule (00:19.746)
Thanks very much. Happy to join.

Jason Elkins (00:30.683)
I mentioned you Keith before I hit the record button. I want to mention to the listeners that today we’re doing something different. I’m actually recording this in a coffee shop. So there may be some coffee shop noises in the background and that’s actually intentional. So for anybody listening, if you have any feedback on that, feel free to share it with me. But so Keith and I are just, we’re just basically going to have coffee today. So Keith, thanks for participating in that.

Keith Sproule (00:55.95)
We’re gonna New York style a coffee. We’ll have a coffee talk.

Jason Elkins (00:58.555)
Coffee. Yeah, coffee talk. I remember that. I that was a Saturday Night Live scale, wasn’t it? Like that coffee talk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well anyway. So Keith, I’m super excited to have you here. You’re actually, where are you right now? You are on the East Coast, you?

Keith Sproule (01:05.858)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, we’re dating ourselves.

Keith Sproule (01:19.902)
So I work out of our Chicago office in London between the two. Yes.

Jason Elkins (01:25.443)
So you’re in Chicago right now.

Okay, but you live in Jackson, right? Yeah, I’m sure quite a few of our listeners have spent some time in Jackson Hole and I’m sure some of them probably even live there. know I’ve got a lot, you and I have quite a few mutual connections in the area. anyway, Keith, before we get going, let’s give, cause we’re gonna dig into your background. I really wanna learn about you, figure out how you got from where you were to where you are now.

Keith Sproule (01:31.906)
I do, I live out in Jackson Hole.

Jason Elkins (01:53.913)
Before we do that, let’s give our listeners kind of an idea. Most of them, I suspect most of them have heard of Abercrombie and Kent, but let’s tell them a little bit about Abercrombie and Kent, phleioentropy, and what exactly is it that you do.

Keith Sproule (02:09.698)
You bet.

So, Evercoming Kent has a long history of ensuring that we give back to the communities where we send our guests. In the past decade, we’ve really doubled down to expand that portfolio of work. And so, at the moment, it’s 77 projects in 31 countries. And we take it really seriously. Education, healthcare, job creation, conservation investments. We think of it in the context of investments.

Jason Elkins (02:39.387)
Let’s do it.

Keith Sproule (02:41.072)
in part because it’s not just air dropping stuff on people. We’re really working to ensure that we’re uplifting, improving lives and livelihoods. So we tend to do things at scale. We build the primary school. We build the maternity ward. We establish that women’s enterprise.

Jason Elkins (02:47.183)
Thank

Keith Sproule (03:01.998)
Right now, our 2025 investment activity is coming in at about 3.3 million. We’ve been doing a lot of really good work. I got to say that continued demand in the context of our guests and the guest satisfaction with this being a part of their travel experience, we’re already gearing up for 2026 to be another record year.

Jason Elkins (03:19.151)
We’ll right back.

Jason Elkins (03:26.607)
Wow, very cool. Quite a few questions. I want to ask a couple of now and then I know we’re going to come back to some of them a little bit later. But guess the first question is…

does Abercrombie can’t look at it as far as we don’t need to go into the details it’s not all about the organization but I’m just curious does the company look at it say we’re gonna put a certain percentage of our profits or a certain percentage of our income into the philanthropy so is it if the company does well then you have more money to go do great things or is it something totally different?

Keith Sproule (03:59.82)
Yeah, AKP gets a little slice of every sale from every product line that we have across the company. The goal is to integrate into the guest experience and understanding, a framework of understanding what are the educational delivery challenges that this community faces, the medical delivery challenges, the job creation challenges. And so fundamentally, their commitment is to cover all of AKP’s operational expenses.

And to the extent that we incorporate this and the guest feels inspired to also support, 100 % of the guest donation goes to the Project of Choice. That’s kind of the gold star in the nonprofit, the NGO world, and I’m very proud to be able to communicate that. And then we ensure that the guests actually receive transparent communication about what we’ve done with their support.

Jason Elkins (04:54.651)
Very, very cool. Is it, I’m just curious, is it, in my mind I’m thinking, okay, so let’s imagine.

Does the money on the philanthropy side of it tend to flow in the same direction as the guests? where I’m going with this is let’s just say hypothetically 50 % of A &K guests go to Africa. Does that kind of mean that maybe around 50 % of the philanthropy money goes to Africa as well?

Keith Sproule (05:25.646)
No, that’s totally a reasonable question. Look, in the world of travel, most of our companies have a big presence in Italy because everybody wants to go to Italy. I’m going to tell you that in the context of our mission, we’re not going to raise the bar of education or health care in Italy. And so even though, we’re going to develop destinations in many parts of the world,

We’re not investing in all of those locations. So the same is true in Hong Kong, Australia. So we tend to shift resources to areas where we can truly have an impact. And just by way of an example, Jason.

We have identified school lunch as one of the critical factors for success, for educational success. And communities that live on the edge of wilderness, the Bwindi Impenetrable Forest, where everyone wants to go see the mountain gorilla and go gorilla trekking. We feed every day 4,700 kids. We deliver that lunch for 21 cents a plate.

Now I could never do that anywhere in Europe, anywhere in Australia, US.

We do it because we work in partnership with the parents of the school. So we deliver, we build the kitchen, we deliver the maize meal and the rice, but the parents deliver the beans, the greens, and the firewood. And in this process, we transform the whole learning environment. Because of school lunch, the kids are getting there on time and they’re staying through the day. And of course, it affects development. And of course, we feed everyone. So the teachers and the security guard and all are

Keith Sproule (07:11.44)
in the mix, but it’s, if I can do that in more locations, I’m so eager to have that level of transformative investment at 21 cents a plate. That’s why we do so much of it.

Jason Elkins (07:12.943)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (07:26.555)
I’m actually really happy to ask that question because I had no, I didn’t have a preconceived idea that we were going to discuss that but you’re right, a lot of guests, I don’t know what the mix of Abercrombie and Kent guests are but I know a lot of people go to places like Italy or…

Australia, maybe Japan, all these places and you’re right, where can you guys get the most bang for your buck is not necessarily in those places. So that makes a lot of sense.

And then I guess, well, I’m not sure. can’t remember what the other question was, but it’s going to come back to me as we have the conversation. So let’s do this because I find when I meet with people like yourself, there’s always an interesting story. It’s like, how the heck did you get into this? It probably wasn’t by accident. Maybe it was by accident. I don’t know, but let’s figure it out together. So how far back do we need to go, Keith, to kind of get a feel for what got you into this world that you’re living in?

Keith Sproule (08:14.753)
You

Keith Sproule (08:26.766)
Oh, you know, like most good things in life, was serendipity. I had an inkling and desire to travel at 18. I took my year walkabout, gap year and hitchhiked around Europe and North Africa. Ended up at university and it’s been a whirlwind of various locations for living and jobs.

and travel ever since. So I feel very privileged to say I’ve traveled to over 140 countries and I’ve had longer-term living experience in 12. And so this sort of life evolved to where I am today.

Jason Elkins (08:58.267)
All right, let’s.

Jason Elkins (09:13.935)
Let’s dig into the part right before the walkabout because I suspect something was going on. Where did you grow up?

Keith Sproule (09:18.318)
You

Keith Sproule (09:23.414)
East Coast, just outside of New York. I can talk like a New Yorker, that’s why we’re having coffee.

Jason Elkins (09:25.499)
Alright, alright, so yes you can. Alright, so what was like, what was the, you said you can, the inkling of travel around 18, but I suspect there was stuff going on earlier than that. Did your parents travel? Were there people around you that influenced you? What do you think it was that got you to want to go take a walk about? Or was it just, I just need to get out of this town I’m in? Because that’s a valid thing that comes up too sometimes.

Keith Sproule (09:50.51)
You ready?

Keith Sproule (09:54.095)
It was definitely influenced on my father. He was a history buff and had studied history. We had lots of global conversations. One of my cherished memories, dad has passed, but…

I was hitchhiking around and I, back in the day, you know, so I’m going to date myself, but there were pay phones. And on Sunday mornings I would call home and we would talk. And I rang him from Sevilla in Spain. And I told him that I had visited the Alhambra. And he wanted to know, now isn’t that one of the sites the Moors had developed?

And I will never forget this feeling at 18 holding the phone out like, how did you know that? This is my adventure. But in fact, it was reflective of our relationship. We could talk about the world and locations and you know, so I’m very, sure that he was the inspiration.

Jason Elkins (10:42.693)
Jason Elkins (10:54.811)
That is so cool. What kind of stuff were you, I mean, what were you interested in before you started traveling in school? Were you already interested in this history of global stuff with him? Or did that come more about once you started actually traveling?

Keith Sproule (11:11.15)
You know, I think at 18, just, I was not sure what I wanted to study and some, you know, and some, for some folks, it’s the right decision not to jump into the university. And for me, for sure it was. So I just had a car and wandered around the US and lot of the national parks for the first half of that year. And then sold my car over the holidays and got to Europe back in the day when you could hitchhike. I hitchhiked around.

got up north in northern Europe in January, February, and it was too expensive. Went south and it was warmer. And then, you know, just had no idea that I was going to go across and wave to Gibraltar and land in Morocco and get through Morocco and took a boat around to Tunisia and…

know, sort of doing this in 18 and 19, it was certainly an anchor event in life that sort of opened a lot of horizons, but I didn’t go into it expecting that was going to be the case.

Jason Elkins (12:10.875)
See, one thing that I know comes up and I’ve been traveling full time for four and a half years and one thing I’ve noticed since I’ve been traveling so much is the people, I tend to meet other people that are kind of like-minded, kind of have that wanderlust or that just insatiable desire to just consume culture and social settings and all that. But maybe some of the people that I knew before that didn’t quite get it. So I’m curious about like…

The other kids you went to school with, or maybe even people in your family, when you started your big journey at 18, what did they, what did they, I don’t, I can’t ask you what they thought, but how did they seem to respond to all this?

done.

Keith Sproule (12:55.33)
I think even my family didn’t know what to think. I mean, I’ll say that 30 years later, my mother would still ask, and what do you do again?

Jason Elkins (13:12.027)
52, my mom still asks me that.

I get that.

Keith Sproule (13:18.158)
I had a really beautiful memory from those days. I met a Japanese gentleman, Kazuya Nagai, and we ran into each other in Spain doing the usual backpack circuit and whatever hostels and sort of re-met in Portugal and decided to travel together and we went down to Morocco together and just with a group of random backpackers like you do.

when you’re kind of just floating. And I was definitely at 18 just floating. I was this naive, bright-eyed American kid. And Kazoo had done a lot more traveling. And there was one moment, landing in Morocco. And Ceuta is the Spanish port. We went through the Spanish port, and we’re loading onto a local bus, and driving south, and it’s packed, as you can imagine. We’re in the 80s now, and…

And it freaked me out. But I didn’t know that. I turned inside. And Kazoo was so great. Slightly broken English. At about day three, he yelled at me. He said, you, you changed. You become like rock. You became a rock. Like I had closed up. he never tapped me in the chest.

Jason Elkins (14:27.695)
you

Jason Elkins (14:36.819)
Mm-hmm,

Keith Sproule (14:42.804)
And he says, I don’t know you. And I realized, wow, that’s true. That had happened. And I feel like punctured this defensive fortress I had sort of put around me. And I feel like he opened me up to the need to be open in the context of travel in so many ways. I know that’s not the question you asked, but that’s the memory that came back.

Jason Elkins (15:00.559)
Thank you.

Jason Elkins (15:05.595)
Well, no, no, that’s it’s it’s actually really, really cool because as I listen to you, I’m like, yeah, I’ve kind of had that type of thing happen in some of my travels as well, but I didn’t have somebody there to call me out on my stuff. Do you remember?

Keith Sproule (15:22.126)
you

Jason Elkins (15:26.011)
you remember kind of what it was I’d love to dig a little deeper as to just that that because traveling like that a lot of people have never had that experience and at some point maybe in the beginning it feels like one thing but then every once in a while just out of out of the blue something will just shift and you’re kind of like I don’t know I don’t want to words in your mouth but you remember what was going on that caused you to kind of go inward

Keith Sproule (15:51.193)
For sure, I had no preparation. I mean, I was as raw as could be and sort of just figuring things out and looking at the post-its on some of these hostile walls and making last minute decisions, just like you do. And so I think the smell, the sight, the sound, all those sensory intakes were overwhelming.

especially in those days, you sort of cross over and it’s dusty North Africa, folks in Galibais, and very different food stuff. It just overwhelmed the senses. And think Kazuya helped me put a construct around that. And a reminder.

that, you know, of who I really am and why I wanted to travel. you know, I really went back and thought through my journaling that night about, you know, why I was there, et cetera. And it really helped me get back to laughter, get back to the smiles that are necessary for travel and building the relations with folks.

Jason Elkins (16:48.859)
I’m sorry.

Jason Elkins (16:54.021)
So.

Jason Elkins (16:57.979)
You know, as you describe that, the word that comes to mind, and I don’t know if it was the situation for you, but it sounds very similar to other conversations I’ve had and even maybe feelings I felt, it almost sounds like homesick. Did you catch it, homesick?

Keith Sproule (17:17.582)
Yeah, for sure. I went through all the classic homesickness, you know, that’s why I would call home and I can remember feeling lonely and sad and especially when, you know, at some points you don’t meet people and you’re sort of solo and, you know, I was living on about 10 bucks a day, including lodging. So, you know, I’m having another banana and bread sandwich or whatever and you miss mom’s cooking. All of those things were going on for sure.

Jason Elkins (17:34.647)
huh.

Jason Elkins (17:45.275)
It’s interesting because what I hear, you it’s like you at 18, 19 were having these thoughts and here I am in my early 50s doing it. Cause I didn’t have the opportunity. I had some great opportunities, but I’ve kind of feel like the last four and half years have been me trying to catch up with, cause I didn’t have the walkabout, right? But I still have the same emotions and those still, and honestly, sometimes even that financial thing, it’s like, what am I doing, man? I’m really, and it’s great because, you know,

lot of great things to see but also it’s like every day there’s decisions where am I gonna get money out of the ATM where am I gonna get my haircut where am I going to get my laundry done where so it’s this constant decision thing that can be a little overwhelming but some people maybe use it as distraction

Keith Sproule (18:33.422)
You know, I actually, over the holiday stretch here, I did a silent retreat in Mexico for a week. And one of the comments of the facilitators that the meditation often reintroduces us to some of the people we forgot we used to be. so there was, know, and Kazuya helped me at that time remember.

who I was and who I wanted to be and not that person that was all closed up.

Jason Elkins (19:07.579)
Yeah. Do you think that the fact that he was a traveler as well, I guess we’re going with this is sometimes people need when we’re traveling are just different types of people or they maybe provide a different purpose in our lives than the people that are more, I don’t know if I want to say grounded, but maybe people back home that could just never imagine going on a trip like that. You know, I’m not really sure where I’m going with this other than.

I’m curious about the people before you started traveling and then the people you met when you started traveling and what Do you have any big takeaways or because obviously you just kept going you said you’ve been over 140 countries

Keith Sproule (19:52.387)
Yeah, I’ve always, I’ve been, you late, I’ve been able to justify it for work, but I still love meeting people when they’re on a journey because they’re different. You know, the minds are more open. It’s actually one of the things that I really think about in the context of our work. Some of the best opportunities for us is to work with multi-generational travel groups, families.

And so, you if you’ve got grandma and the parents and the kids, especially the kids, you know, when you’re traveling, the mind is open. You’re outside of your box, your day-to-day existence. And philanthropy is a learned activity. And to the extent that we can introduce the opportunity to make a difference in lives to teenagers.

It’s going to stay with them for life. You know, they walk into a school and they see 50 or 60 to one student teacher ratio and have the kids without shoes. And that triggers compassion and the opportunity for us is to harness the compassion into, you know, real action. But at the end of the day.

when we can express our compassionate selves, it actually leads to joy. And so it’s kind of funny, the folks that work for me, we joke that the real job description is they’re ambassadors of joy. They’re managing impact.

But it all sort of stems from that same basic travel experience early on in life for me. In that, you you learn about open horizons, who you are, how you close up, how you open up, meeting other travelers that are in the mix of that moment of opening. I think that’s why so many people meet when they’re traveling and get married, because the relationship is made so, so fresh.

Jason Elkins (21:50.148)
Yeah.

Keith Sproule (21:50.19)
because they’re not in their box, meeting in a box. They’re actually meeting when they’re open and willing to receive and maybe explore.

Jason Elkins (21:57.243)
I love that and I don’t know if you have No, no, no. Hey, that’s what this is. We’re just having coffee coffee talk You know though what comes up for me too is I’ve got some people I don’t know if you have this but I’ve got some people in my life that I’m close to that really just never had the travel bug didn’t have the opportunity just it wasn’t their thing And then obviously I’ve got a lot of people in my life that I’ve

Keith Sproule (22:00.205)
Boy, that was a long-winded response, wasn’t it?

Jason Elkins (22:26.777)
met or just that even family members that do travel, they kind of get it. And it’s amazing the difference I notice between the two groups when it comes to, I don’t want to say compassion, but I’m going to say compassion, openness. I was thinking, well, who’s going to be listening to this episode? I’m not going to mention any names, but I know people that spend an awful lot of time looking at social media.

having conversations around politics, especially here in the US and different ethnic groups, people that have come in from outside the country. And just their attitude towards some of these groups is so different than the people in my world that travel.

So for example, if you’ve been to, if you’ve been or spent some time in Africa, maybe you look at some of the politics around Somalian stuff that may be going on in this country. You might look at it a little differently or things that are happening in the Middle East and it’s just amazing the difference. You know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to call it racism, but ethnocentrism.

for sure that the people that don’t travel just have a much harder time getting their head around that. And that sounds very judgmental, but I don’t know what he thought. I’m gonna stop before I say anything else.

Keith Sproule (23:47.865)
Well, there’s definitely been a long time perspective that if every member of Congress had actually had a passport, we might make different foreign policy decisions.

Jason Elkins (24:01.019)
crazy well did you you probably notice that travel I don’t know you tell me but you mentioned okay I was 18 19 year old young guy from the States travel around exploring I suspect that you probably didn’t see a whole lot of other Americans I’m sure you saw some but just as far as the mix of I guess what I’m saying is

Even the term walkabouts kind of an Australian thing, right? I don’t think is that where that came from an Aussie thing, right? Yeah, so you say that Aussies will go to a walkabouts. That’s like part of their thing if or if you’re Kiwi or if you’re up in Denmark or something like that, you’re just so much more likely to go take that gap here and go travel where

Keith Sproule (24:32.29)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (24:49.325)
Americans I say I was careful with the word Americans because there’s a lot of Americans that do not live in the US Right. It’s a big continent to two big continents that are full of Americans But those folks that live in the US tend to not do that gap here quite as often and I think that probably tends to influence our politics and our attitudes

Keith Sproule (25:12.236)
for sure. the culture of taking a walk about, I think fundamentally by the time they get off island, leaving Australia or New Zealand, they’ve invested so much that they often have to, they wanna take a longer stretch in order to be able to do it right. There seems to be a growing cadre of…

Jason Elkins (25:25.221)
you

Jason Elkins (25:32.635)
That’s true.

Keith Sproule (25:42.24)
youth in the US that are more comfortable traveling. I think that’s reflective of the growth and sort of activity. And certainly our industry has expanded, not just here, but in so many other countries. There’s greater access to information about destinations, about how to do it. Practically speaking, the cost has come down for flights.

to get places and the confidence to be able to book your place, whether it’s online or use a travel consultant. It’s certainly, it is becoming a larger percentage of our population that are having these types of experiences.

Jason Elkins (26:23.227)
And I suspect part of that is, you know, and I know that’s the case for myself is, you know, because of COVID, a lot of people kind of opened up to the idea of working remotely. You know, so this whole digital nomad boom is because, oh wow, geez, I can work from anywhere. Now some people can work from anywhere and they choose to work from home in Des Moines, Iowa. That’s fine. There’s nothing, no issues there.

Keith Sproule (26:34.937)
Mm.

Jason Elkins (26:49.125)
then there’s an awful lot of people like myself that, I can work remotely and there’s no reason that I need to be in Arizona in July or whatever. And so a lot of the people that I’m seeing traveling now are able to because of working remotely. So I suspect that’s part of it.

Keith Sproule (27:07.395)
You know what I’ll share Jason is that post COVID, the number of inquiries that we receive for travel groups, again families, that really want to incorporate into their itinerary some greater connectivity. They want to visit that school. They’re asking about going to clinics. They want to build more time in their itineraries.

Jason Elkins (27:34.411)
So, you.

Keith Sproule (27:36.953)
for these types of experiences. And I actually believe that folks sat at home thinking about where they wanted to travel, but also how. There’s definitely been an explosive increase in the number of folks that are asking for us to build this into what they’re looking for in their travel experience.

Jason Elkins (27:57.241)
Why do you think that is?

Keith Sproule (28:00.035)
I think we sat at home feeling isolated for those years. And people were online, but maybe they were online realizing, hey, I want to fulfill a dream. I want to go for that bucket list.

Jason Elkins (28:02.565)
you

Keith Sproule (28:16.342)
in a moment or I want my kids to get away from the darn screens. I want them to go see the situation in other settings. So one of the funnest things that we do, I’m gonna fill you in on one of the great moments that we were able to deliver. And I say this quite seriously, we’ve got a relationship with a…

Jason Elkins (28:34.819)
Alright, please do. Yeah, please do.

Keith Sproule (28:39.008)
a company called LifeStraw that do water filtration and they take out 99.99 % of bacteria and the larger volume filters take out 99.99 % of virus as well. And so we have been able to deliver these filters with training to every school that borders the Masai Mara, the Serengeti, and Gorgoro Crater, Amboseli.

We’re doing Tarangire in Tanzania this year, the Buindi, Queen Elizabeth. So approximately 140,000 children have access to clean water in the course of their school day.

but the fun, fun opportunity is for a family to be present during one of the trainings because it’s really energetic and you have a couple hundred kids out front and you talk about how the filter works. It’s not a difficult process, but it takes some training. And we incorporate song and dance in Swahili all about diarrhea and washing your hands and.

and there’s a little dance routine that goes with it. in this process, a family can experience something as simple as clean water, but it’s a real process of training and.

delivery of this technology that’s microfiber filtration system that’s easily movable, but it sits like very sacred in the schoolyard, because everybody values it once it’s implemented. So it’s a real takeaway. And we give them, as part of their tool, the opportunity to fund a filter.

Keith Sproule (30:20.505)
So for approximately 600 bucks, they can leave 100, one filter for 100 kids. They can leave a filter in place at a school for 100 kids. It would be good for about five years. Legacy of their experience in that location, in that country, in that park. And it’s one of our really big success stories because I think it’s not only delivering impact, positive, clean water, but it’s also giving a moment of being present

Jason Elkins (30:31.579)
Thank

Jason Elkins (30:43.696)
Right.

Jason Elkins (30:47.269)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Keith Sproule (30:50.609)
in the training and understanding, okay, wow, this is a process, it’s a dynamic one, but we’re part of it. And so it’s a really mutual bridge building moment.

Jason Elkins (30:53.925)
it.

Jason Elkins (31:03.259)
Do you, it’s an interesting conversation because there is a lot of talk about community-based tourism, conservation, sustainability, and sometimes some operators might, oh, we like to give back to the community, and then you go and, you you go to a facility where they’re just selling hand goods.

Yeah, I’m just gonna say it like I’m thinking that, We, you know, on our tour, we went to the ladies center where they’re making beadwork and they’re selling it. Which is fine. But some… But I don’t know where going with this. You’re the expert. I’m trying not to embarrass myself by the way I’m gonna ask this question.

But sometimes it doesn’t feel very authentic. Sometimes, you know, I’ve been on those tours and it’s like, okay, this is great. It’s great that they’ve got this building set up here and they’re making some money selling stuff, but it just doesn’t feel like I’m really connecting with the community. You know.

Keith Sproule (32:11.471)
Mmm.

Jason Elkins (32:12.859)
And then there’s other things that are where you’re really really involved and you’re actually you know Getting involved watching them learn a new technology with the the life straws and stuff like that Then maybe you feel a little bit more connected or maybe you’re having a meal With a family that type of thing. I guess the question Yeah, go ahead

Keith Sproule (32:30.786)
It’s…

I think you’re asking a really good question in the context. It’s not easy, and I’ll say it seriously, that tour operators, that even if they want to deliver this type of experience, you still have to organize for health and hygiene, safety and security, and it has to be in a setting with the right people. You don’t want to bring your guests into a setting and they feel afraid or they, for whatever reason, it’s not a warm embrace.

So it’s not easy. For us, the commitment on the part of the company is that we have 20 full-time community development professionals in the field.

and they’re managing this relationship. So they’re working finger on the pulse with the women’s groups, finger on the pulse with doctors and nurses, the Ministry of Health, the principals and teachers, the Ministry of Education, and they’re facilitating guest exposure. There are a lot of awesome volunteerism organizations out there. That’s not us.

Jason Elkins (33:35.641)
Yeah.

Keith Sproule (33:38.531)
We give guests an understanding of the challenges that these communities face and we give them some opportunity to feel like they’ve gone deeper than a surface level in a luxury vehicle. Looking out the window, they’ll spend a few hours.

And often that’s just rich enough. One of the funnest things that we can do, I’ll give you another kind of crafted moment is, I talked about the lunch program, getting families to serve lunch. And what it does, sometimes you can visit a school and if you’re around, if you’re walking through campus and you’re disturbing the classroom, you kind of feel like you’re, it’s very objectifying.

So what we consciously do is, especially in Africa after morning safari, drive up to the school and take them into the kitchen. And there’s always wonderful women in the kitchen that are stirring the ugali or wicks on the rice, the rice beans. And they’re usually hilarious. They love to have volunteers, right? And there’s nothing more fun than to watch the ladies, they give an apron to dad.

Jason Elkins (34:36.591)
Thank

Keith Sproule (34:53.38)
New York lawyer, father, know, wearing an apron and then the kids line up and he’s spooning rice and beans and the kids actually, they don’t care if some Western person’s serving lunch. Well, what the heck? That’s kind of funny. They just get their plate of food and they carry on.

Jason Elkins (34:55.227)
Make it a valid.

Jason Elkins (35:07.835)
Yeah.

Keith Sproule (35:12.834)
But what you find is that the exchange is the smile across that counter is the beans are going on their plate. They look up and the father’s doing this. then we talk about the process of getting the beans there and the family contributing and the record bookkeeping and why this makes such a difference in the life of the school and the well-being of the kids. And often, often that’s the favorite memory.

they go to Kenya, East Africa, wherever, and they’re thinking they’re going to focus on wildlife. But the picture that ends up on the family fireplace mantle or on the fridge or wherever, his dad and his apron serving the beans. so, you know.

Jason Elkins (35:57.477)
You used, yeah, you used a really powerful word there. And I felt it when you said it and it was the word smile. That smile is what creates those connections. And it could be just a smile from a child, a smile from a mother, just people, the ladies working in the kitchen. I know I can’t.

Keith Sproule (36:06.819)
Mmm. Mmm.

Jason Elkins (36:22.523)
I got that immediately because I’ve been in those situations and I’ve worked with, I’ve worked with local staff in kitchens managing a small lodge and the women are great. It’s the ladies, you know, just go hang out with the ladies. They’re just constantly joking and teasing and playing and it was like, so I resonated, but it brought a smile to my face. And you mentioned the kids smiling at the father, you know, the guy from New York scooping beans and rice into their bowl. And it just reminds me of so many experiences that I’ve had that I remember

Keith Sproule (36:26.925)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (36:52.477)
because of a smile on her face. Nothing else. It’s the smile on the face that is what immediately comes to me. I just wanted to share that.

I think the smiles are really real. Actually, I spent in the last six months, I was in a place for a couple of months where there weren’t a lot of smiles, honestly. It was a little bit hard for me to connect just culturally. It’s just wasn’t a place where they smile very much. And I realized I was having a hard time with it. And I picked up a night, I bought a ticket to Bangkok, Thailand, because it’s the land of smiles. I needed a smile so bad that I went to Bangkok and spent a month or so in Thailand.

Keith Sproule (37:16.013)
Yeah.

Keith Sproule (37:23.364)
Mm.

Keith Sproule (37:31.919)
you

Jason Elkins (37:36.541)
just because I needed the smile. So that’s pretty cool. There’s so many things we can discuss, but I wanna make sure we cover the things that are most important to you. I think we’ve touched on quite a few of those, but I’m curious, what if we not touched on that you wanna make sure that we touch on before we wrap up either about you, I mean, we didn’t even scratch the surface. I know that Keith, you know that, but.

What do we want to do with the next five minutes of this conversation?

Keith Sproule (38:11.258)
I love the people you’ve interviewed and I’ve certainly heard so many of your interviews. It’s just such a great collection. There is opportunity, I think, for the travel and tourism industry. I guess I’ll give it an industry perspective for a close.

We’ve always been very good at figuring out how to sell, to market the world’s natural and cultural heritage. So many destinations around the world. We have not as an industry always been so good at sustaining these destinations. And I feel very privileged in my role that we are.

Jason Elkins (38:48.261)
you

Keith Sproule (38:53.903)
lending support to the traditional, the ancestral stewards of these landscapes, the communities that have been in residence. And it’s relatively new for so many, so many parts of the world to have the volume of visitors that are showing up. And sometimes it’s because they have a relationship with gorilla or they’ve got a relationship with wildlife or, you know, their ancestors constructed Machu Picchu or Angkor Wat and

and to make sure that in the context of what we’re doing in selling, it’s not all about the economics, a lot of which accrues to the company that’s doing the selling and the organizing, but making sure that the community, the larger landscape level residents are also benefiting directly, tangibly from our industry and leaving behind

Things like a school, a built school environment, or a school lunch, or access to healthcare, a medical clinic. These are the types of investments that I think our industry is rising up to. And there is a growing percentage of companies that are offering this and they’re building it into their corporate structures. There’s certainly demand.

from the consumer side. And so I think one of the things I’m really optimistic about is that it’s become more accepted as a standard of operation for this to be the case. We can always do a better job of sort of drilling down to make sure, you referenced early on, about the greenwashing and these things. But to make a really structural difference with equity is important. And I think the industry is recognizing the importance.

Jason Elkins (40:25.403)
you

Jason Elkins (40:43.803)
How important do you think it is for the companies within the industry, the players to play with each other to participate and collaborate on these projects because I can sit here and listen to you saying, okay, well, this is what Abercrombie Kent does.

And, um, and Trappett’s going to say, this is what we do. And you’ve got all these operators. It sounds to me as someone, a little bit on the outside in a sense is it sounds like a lot of silos, right? We’re doing this, we’re doing that. What are you going to do? And how do you like, if we have a lot of tour operators that listen to the show, if a tour operators listen to the show and really wants to get more involved in this stuff, but doesn’t have the resources that Abercrombie and Kent has, but maybe has something else they can like, can they reach out to you?

Is there room for collaboration?

Keith Sproule (41:32.112)
Absolutely, and there’s a great need for it. Believe me, I am so vested in the idea of collaboration to make sure that we’re achieving greater efficiencies when we collaborate. We stop some of the opportunity that communities take.

to sort of play one operator against another. But we can do things at greater scale. I’m gonna give you one example. And I’m talking out of turn because it’s only in development stage, but we’ve got early buy-in. We have Eladj as our company. And then in the Mara.

and very close to us are several other companies. And I’m going to go ahead and name them because we’re all talking. so, EnBeyond, Wilderness Safaris, and Gamma Mara, we’re all in the same neighborhood. The nearest high school is 35 kilometers away. Most of the kids are going to go 80 kilometers or to Nairobi.

look, as soon as you start to send kids that far, it means that they have to overnight, they’re going to board. And that increases the cost. And so in many settings, they’re only comfortable sending the girls, sorry, sending the boys. so we are now in the middle of process of identifying land and working with the Ministry of Education to build a high school.

Jason Elkins (42:49.253)
Yep.

Keith Sproule (43:00.151)
and we’re going to do it together. We’re going to do it collaboratively. None of us have the resource to build a high school independently, probably.

But when we think about working together, we can achieve things at scale like that. And there are so, so many instances where there’s opportunity for us to deliver positive impact, uplift the broader community. We’re never going to have enough jobs at a lodge for everyone who might live nearby. But I’ll tell you what, we can build a school that’s going to serve hundreds of kids and hopefully make it accessible, more accessible to both boys and girls so they don’t have to travel as far.

Jason Elkins (43:35.739)
It’s be better.

Jason Elkins (43:41.519)
That’s very cool. there a parting? Let’s inspire somebody. I think you’re already inspiring some people. I don’t want to put you on the spot, but yeah, I just, said, let’s inspire somebody. That’s not putting you on the spot at all. But.

Keith Sproule (43:50.519)
you

Jason Elkins (43:58.875)
Yeah, somebody that’s listening to this that likes to travel. I don’t know, is there any just like a seed you want to plant in somebody’s head right now about either philanthropy? I think you’ve already done it.

Keith Sproule (44:09.795)
No, I think there’s an old expression, the Ecotourism Society was promoting it at one point, that your travel choice makes a difference.

And if you’re a traveler, you know, asking the questions, well, what does your company do to give back to ensure equity in the industry? And if you’re an operator, what exactly are you doing to make a difference? And is it a one off? There’s a distinction between a project, which is, you know, tend to be one off. And those are important. But programmatic support so that the community and your partners can rely on you year over year. You’re making project or programmatic commitments. There’s nothing worse in our industry than air dropping a bunch of

I’ve never been a fan of sort of encouraging people to pack with a purpose and carry a whole bunch of shoes and whatever and then that gets distributed in some manner somewhere. But to actually invest the time and the effort necessary to figure out how do we uplift education or healthcare or jobs in a meaningful way. Not always.

Jason Elkins (45:07.451)
you

Keith Sproule (45:16.643)
you know, with a timeline of, I get this delivered in the next two months while I’m here because it’s the season. Well, there’s life after the season. So I would say, I don’t know if it’s inspirational or not, but your travel choice does make a difference. And to ask those questions, and if you’re on the service delivery side, what are we doing exactly to make it?

Jason Elkins (45:23.195)
Yeah, it’s the chip.

Jason Elkins (45:39.515)
have a link I guess the link is going to be right to the philanthropy thing of Abercrombie Cat. I can’t remember which link you gave me but they’ll be able to go on and learn learn more about kind of what you guys are doing and and because again I said we’ve got a lot of tour operators that listen to this I think if we can collaborate on projects that’d be great so I’m encouraging any tour operators listen to this go take a look what they’re doing and figure out you know what you can do together.

Keith Sproule (45:47.791)
That’d be great.

Keith Sproule (46:07.489)
Open door, wide open. Go visit and if you want to bring your guests, we’ll brand it as your company. I don’t care. It’s all about the impact.

Jason Elkins (46:09.531)
I’m going to that.

Jason Elkins (46:15.323)
Yep, all right. I love it Keith. Thank you so much I really I know you’ve got a busy schedule and for you to cut out some time to share with us It’s really really important and thank you so much. I appreciate you doing that. Look forward to chatting with you again soon We’ve got a lot more to discuss at another conversation. Thanks, Keith

Keith Sproule (46:33.903)
I look forward to Jason. Thank you.

Jason Elkins (46:36.057)
Talk to you soon. Bye.

Return to Top of Page

all episodes
all episodes

Follow 205+ Leaders and the Stories That Shape the Adventure Travel World on the Big World Made Small Podcast

Access the stories here, or on your favorite platform; wherever you prefer.

Get Expert Interviews Delivered Directly to Your Inbox

Join the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast community and we’ll send you new podcast episodes weekly, and make sure you hear about exclusive and relevant opportunities that you won’t find elsewhere.