Guest Bio
Mariam Khuberashvili is a seasoned tour guide and Product Supervisor at Magic Roads Georgia, where she crafts immersive travel experiences that showcase the culture, landscapes, and history of her home country. With deep expertise in the Caucasus region and a background in guiding, Mariam brings thoughtful storytelling and local insight to every journey she creates. Her work reflects a strong commitment to cultural preservation and a passion for connecting travelers with Georgia’s authentic spirit.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Mariam about her upbringing in post-Soviet Georgia and how that history continues to shape the country’s identity today. Their conversation delves into the resilience of Georgian culture, from ancient wine-making traditions to the warmth and hospitality that define the region.
Mariam shares stories from her work in tourism, her personal encounters with international educators, and the cultural significance of Georgian cuisine—from the bold flavors of cha-cha to the sweet simplicity of tatara. Together, they paint a picture of a country both grounded in tradition and eager to welcome the world.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Georgia is one of the oldest wine-producing regions in the world, with traditions dating back 8,000 years.
- ✓ The Soviet era left a lasting impact on Georgian identity, language, and culture.
- ✓ Different generations in Georgia perceive the Soviet legacy in distinct ways.
- ✓ Tourism played a transformative role in Mariam’s personal and professional journey.
- ✓ English-speaking foreign teachers greatly influenced the development of language skills among Georgian youth.
- ✓ Wine-making remains a deeply personal and cultural tradition for Georgian families.
- ✓ Cha-cha, a strong traditional spirit, is made from grape pomace left after wine production.
- ✓ Tatara, a local candy, is crafted from thickened grape juice and flour.
- ✓ Georgia is widely regarded as one of the safest travel destinations in the world.
- ✓ Georgians take immense pride in their heritage and are enthusiastic about sharing it with visitors.
What You’ll Find on Magic Roads Georgia
- Custom-designed travel experiences across Georgia and the Caucasus
- Authentic cultural encounters with local communities
- Expert-led wine tours and culinary journeys
- Historical and nature-based excursions tailored to travelers’ interests
- A strong focus on heritage preservation and responsible tourism
Learn more about Magic Roads Georgia and connect with Mariam at:
https://www.magic-dmc.com/destinations/georgia
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.312)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Very excited today. We’ve got Mariam Khuberashvili How was that? Did I get it pretty close? Khuberashvili, Khuberashvili. Okay. All right. Very good. Well, we practiced quite a bit before I had to record. Mariam, so nice to see you again. I actually met with you when I was in Georgia, not too long ago and just had a wonderful experience with you, your team, your colleagues.
Mariami Khuberashvili (00:13.89)
Yeah, it was good.
yeah.
Jason Elkins (00:31.24)
and it’s super fun to be back here to have this conversation with you today. So welcome to the show.
Mariami Khuberashvili (00:37.656)
Thank you. Thanks for having me and I’m very happy to have met you in Georgia in our podcast.
Jason Elkins (00:44.398)
It’s my pleasure and I got your name, but I need to let everybody know what you do. You’re a product supervisor with Magic Roads Georgia. And I understand this is a fairly recent new role. So congratulations on that. That’s a big deal. So we’re going to learn a little bit about what that means, but we’re mostly here to just kind of figure out your story and figure out how the heck did you.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00.258)
Thank you.
Jason Elkins (01:09.72)
get from where you are to where you are now. I already know your story a little bit because we’ve had some conversations, but I’m excited to share that with our audience. So first of all, let’s just discuss Georgia so nobody thinks you’re in Atlanta. So you’re from Georgia. Where is Georgia? What do you want our listeners to know about Georgia? What’s the first thing that you can think of?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:34.432)
the first thing is that we are the wine country, right in the Caucasus, in between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.
And we are like one of the oldest nations in the world, unfortunately, which was kind of faded and lost in the Soviet Union. And not many people know about Georgia at this moment, especially in the U.S. But we do exist.
Jason Elkins (02:07.48)
Do you think, this is a tough question, I’ve got my own ideas, but I grew up in a different place. Do you think that the confusion is because we have a state of Georgia? If there was no Georgia in the US, do you feel like people would know a little bit more about Georgia and the caucuses? That’s a tough question, I know.
Mariami Khuberashvili (02:26.444)
Yes, it’s a tough question. I don’t think so because with my experience living in France, there’s no Georgia in France, but still almost nobody knew about my country. So I think it’s a kind of this assimilation with the Soviet Union and unfortunately with Russia.
Jason Elkins (02:40.078)
you
Mariami Khuberashvili (02:51.252)
Because many people also ask us if we speak Russian or our language is any similar to Russia. it’s, I blame Soviet Union mainly, would say.
Jason Elkins (03:01.23)
I can tell that I sense that. And you know, when I was there, I’d heard some, I read something, heard something, someone that said something, maybe it was your colleague, I’m not sure, but that at some point, there was a push to get rid of the Georgian language probably during the Soviet era. Is that true? Or did I just misunderstand something?
Mariami Khuberashvili (03:20.564)
Yes, it’s true. Yes.
Jason Elkins (03:23.214)
Okay, and why would that be? What’s your best guess as to why that would be or what stories have you heard is why would the Soviet Union want to eliminate the Georgian language?
Mariami Khuberashvili (03:32.749)
Yeah, it was in the 1970s. I guess they would just want to make progress in making Georgians lose their identity and making them completely just like Russians maybe, because I think they see us as some of the small nations in North Caucasus, know, the Chechnya and the Dagestanis and so on.
who at this moment, unfortunately, mainly speak only Russian. They are Russian citizens and so on and so on. So I think that was the vision for Georgia as well, to make the people lose their identity and swallow the whole country, know, like don’t exist and just be part of Russia.
That’s what I wanted in the Soviet Union. And that’s what I want now as well, but we’re resisting.
Jason Elkins (04:33.58)
what you what do mean what you want? want to make sure I’m clear on what you just said what they what they want. Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (04:36.3)
What they want. Yeah, what the Russians still want.
Jason Elkins (04:41.568)
I, if you don’t mind, I’d like to discuss this a little further because I’ve had a few conversations now with folks that grew up in former Soviet block countries. And I understand that the first five, I don’t know, maybe it was longer, five years or so after the fall of the Soviet Union was very difficult time for many of these countries. And I suspect, and I’ve heard that there were some people at the time that were like, no, this is really bad. We need to go back.
Mariami Khuberashvili (04:43.854)
you
Jason Elkins (05:11.03)
to, you know, mother Russia and somehow maintain that relationship. And then there were other people that are very happy about, you know, kind of the independence was that, I mean, you’re probably too young to remember all that stuff, but I suspect you’ve heard some stories.
Mariami Khuberashvili (05:26.734)
It’s a very good question, actually. That’s part of my identity as well, that I’m the person who was born after the Soviet Union, but who grew up on the remnants of the Soviet Union. My parents, for example, did not know any other way how to live except of living in socialism and the Soviet Union.
And I did not know how to live in socialism in Soviet Union because I grew up in a free country and in… I would call like… It would not be like called democracy, but some kind of effort of having democracy and capitalism, more or less.
Jason Elkins (06:12.91)
Okay. It seems like you’re choosing your words carefully. I respect that. And did that create a big divide between a generational divide? I’ve heard that where kind of the older generation kind of sat in their ways and then the younger generation, what insights can you share around that?
Mariami Khuberashvili (06:17.39)
Okay.
Mariami Khuberashvili (06:37.9)
With my feelings and my kind of observation, yes, these people who lived all their adult life in the Soviet times and they did not know how to live in capitalism, it was really tough for them, I think, after the Soviet Union living in Georgia. And I would say our parents’ generation, like my parents’ generation.
was mainly like that and is like that at this moment as well and it was difficult for them to have such a drastic change of, I don’t know, statehood, if that’s the right word.
Jason Elkins (07:16.92)
Mm-hmm.
Mm hmm. I’m curious, do you think that there are still people in the older generations that even today kind of miss those days and wish that things were back that way? Or have we gotten to the point where they’re like, okay, yeah, we’re better off now. I mean, I’m sure there’s various different people might feel different things, but.
Mariami Khuberashvili (07:41.015)
Yes, that’s interesting. Yes, I’ve heard from my parents, from my aunt especially, that she sometimes mentions that, life was beautiful, we would go to summer camps every summer, we had like plenty of food, everybody was employed and things like that. That’s like the nostalgia they have that I have, what I have heard. And they say that like,
It’s difficult to live in this life. We are poor. We don’t have that much. It’s difficult to find a job now and so on and so on. So in my opinion, it’s like that the lifestyle they had made them less resistant. They did not know how to like kind of survive in capitalism, maybe.
like how to be more competitive, to get even how to study because you know they would study one thing and they would work in that field for all their life but now it’s not like that you always need to study and improve and educate yourself and like be competitive in the market something like that.
So I think that’s the kind of a characteristic that the parents generation doesn’t have that makes it difficult for them to have a better life.
Jason Elkins (09:16.558)
got it. And I suspect the perspective is if for some reason you had that kind of natural instinct, entrepreneurial type of instinct, when it all happened, you probably maybe had a different result.
Mariami Khuberashvili (09:35.212)
I think so.
Jason Elkins (09:36.554)
Yeah. And so I guess it depends if your life got better than you thought it was, you know, freedom was great. And if your life got more difficult, then I mean, that’s, I can, I can appreciate that. can relate to that, to, to a certain extent. Now, is it difficult? Does it feel awkward for you to discuss things about the Soviet Union or Russia or politics? Because politics is a thing in Georgia.
Mariami Khuberashvili (09:52.513)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (10:06.424)
Russia’s a thing in Georgia. So I just would love for you to share with our listeners kind of what that, I don’t know, is that comfortable when I ask you questions about the fall of the Soviet Union or is it like, geez, I gotta be careful, I’m getting recorded.
Mariami Khuberashvili (10:06.914)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (10:19.598)
Yeah, it’s okay. Because I’ve been feeling like that, like I’m the generation that was born right after the Soviet Union collapse. So I’ve been studying and going to the buildings that was built by Soviets. Even my birth certificate says born in USSR, but in 1993, they just did not have any other papers to give to the parents.
So like it’s the correct expression is like I was living on the remnants of the Soviet Union. I grew up over the remnants of the Soviet Union, something like that. And also what was difficult in the 1990s when I was fortunately still a child and I did not have to be adult in that time was that
There was a real chaos in Georgia, several wars, very high crime and things like that. We did not have electricity, there was no food and things like that. So as a millennial, I feel like I have the characteristics of the modern millennials and also I have experience of living in the 19th century because I would literally study.
over the candle lights when I was a kid and we would have like fireplace and like it now remembering it was normal then but now remembering it does feel like living in the 19th century and then things started to change in the 2003 and I remember the first time when we had non-stop electricity at home
And it was such a big kind of a celebration day. But at that time it felt really like a normal thing. I did not know anything else, you know? And I was not bothered even with that kind of lifestyle at the time. So it’s like…
Jason Elkins (12:27.214)
Wow. So that was in 2003 is when things really started to change as far as full-time electricity. that’s, that’s interesting because when I reflect back to what I was doing in 2003, it did, it seems like a very long time ago and yeah, my life was a little different in the U S.
Mariami Khuberashvili (12:33.268)
Yes. Yes.
Jason Elkins (12:54.278)
interesting. Help me understand how you got into kind of traveling and exploring a little, because you told me some of your story when I first met you. And obviously, you had opportunities to leave. weren’t like growing up doing Soviet times. I get it was much harder to travel back then. But I’m just curious kind of how you went from studying by the light of the fire to having opportunities to go travel and explore.
Mariami Khuberashvili (13:31.993)
for me, was speaking English. And I grew up in a small town, which is at this moment a UNESCO heritage site. And I used to see a growing number of foreigner visitors coming to my hometown. And when it came to choosing the profession, when I was graduating, and a couple of years before that,
I kind of felt that I wanted to do that. I wanted to bring these people to see my country, to see my hometown. And also it was kind of fun communicating with these people. It was very different from what I was used to. So somehow kind of naturally I went to tourism and I went to study.
tourism in the university. And since the first year, yeah, I was in university, I started working as a tour guide in my hometown because I was already speaking English. And even at the time, speaking English was not a common thing in my hometown. My generation was already speaking English, but like older generations, it was kind of a…
mystery. My mom sometimes once sometimes had asked me to like can I just watch you speak English? I guess she never had this chance of seeing me speaking English so maybe I will send this link of this video.
Jason Elkins (15:06.882)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (15:14.062)
It’s Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it is an interesting thing. Because if you grow up with somebody speaking one language, and then all of a sudden, you know, they start speaking a different way, it’s like, almost like, wow, it’s, it’s quite interesting. I remember my son, I started learning Spanish fairly quickly after I started traveling full time four years ago. And I think the first time that he and I were spending time together in Latin America, he was just looking at me like, wow,
dad, you know, what have you done with my dad? You’re speaking Spanish and communicating with people. And it was a kind of a shocker for him. So I can, I can appreciate that. Do what was your hometown that you grew up in?
Mariami Khuberashvili (15:57.295)
Tskheta. Tskheta. It’s 20 kilometers away from Tbilisi. I think you must have been there. There are two rivers meeting. One 11th century UNESCO heritage site and there’s another one, 6th century one, which overlooks the rivers. I will send the link later.
Jason Elkins (16:00.216)
Zvetta?
Jason Elkins (16:21.846)
I’m okay cool. was just I was curious. So we’re there.
Were there tour guides or other people working in tourism in your town when you were young that you had the opportunity to engage with, or you just saw people visiting and got inspired, or I’m just curious.
Mariami Khuberashvili (16:40.406)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (16:44.046)
Yes, my history teacher, she had just started working as a tour guide because she went through some trainings. So she led me to this job where I firstly started guiding because they were looking for English speaking person who would be able to do that. She spoke some English, but they needed a second person as well. So…
She kind of led me there. And from there, then I was already graduating. I started looking for another job. And then I started working in another travel company where I went through training of being a tour guide, like guiding big groups, all the skills you need, not only the history, knowledge, and language.
So I worked as a tour guide for a couple of years and that’s how I entered the travel business.
Jason Elkins (17:50.414)
curious when you first started, maybe you started with her, your history teacher. Was that your first real interaction with foreign guests?
Mariami Khuberashvili (18:01.426)
that’s a very, very good question. No, because I used to have English teacher who was from the US. There was a program, kind of like experimentary program at my school. And we had an English teacher from the US. His name was Thomas. I don’t remember his surname.
But he would give us some lessons. I don’t know if they were like volunteers or there was some kind of program, but as a kid’s perspective, having this teacher was a really big impact. So I will always, always be grateful for this opportunity. And I will always be grateful to the U.S. for this program that they did for our remote towns or villages in Georgia.
Jason Elkins (18:56.814)
Do you remember how old you were when you first met Thomas?
Mariami Khuberashvili (19:01.152)
I should have been around 10.
Jason Elkins (19:04.878)
Do you remember your initial thoughts? I mean, we’re like, this guy’s weird, this guy’s goofy. I mean, cause some of it’s just personality and then, but also if it’s your first real foreigner that you’ve had interaction with, you remember kind of what your initial thoughts were?
Mariami Khuberashvili (19:20.302)
not really, but what I remember is that we were really happy having this teacher during the lessons. And what I remember, what was weird is that he would make us like, he would make the lessons very fun and we would engage in like playing and singing, sometimes painting, some kind of like competitions that we had.
which was really unusual for us because all our teachers that we had before, were teachers. Yes, you know. So that’s what I remember. It was weird.
Jason Elkins (19:49.442)
We’re former Soviet Union. I’m a match. So he was like he was the cool teacher. He was the fun. He was the fun teacher. And it’s interesting because I remember I took French in high school.
Mariami Khuberashvili (19:59.043)
He was the cool teacher, yes.
Jason Elkins (20:09.368)
I cannot remember her name, but she was from France. And so she was probably one of the first people I met that was, you know, or that I was around that was from outside the country. And I got to tell you, she was not the fun teacher. And I, and I’m not, I probably that’s probably what I And we’re not knocking anybody from Paris, but I’m guessing that maybe.
Mariami Khuberashvili (20:22.766)
Was she from Paris?
Jason Elkins (20:34.318)
when she was looking for a job to teach French in the US or maybe not, maybe she wasn’t even looking for the US, but she ended up in Sheridan, Wyoming, which is, you know, in the middle of nowhere, probably about as far away from Paris culture as you can imagine. So she probably wasn’t that excited to be there with a bunch of kids from Wyoming trying to teach them French. So I guess I can’t blame her for not being the fun teacher. But it sounds like this guy really had an impact on, like,
Mariami Khuberashvili (21:05.603)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (21:05.806)
Do you, do you remember like talk, do you remember going home and like talking to your parents about, there’s an English teacher at school. He’s really cool. He’s fun. Or did that even come up?
Mariami Khuberashvili (21:14.882)
That I did not remember. But I remember he would not let me play the competitive games because I would always win. So he wanted other kids to also learn English.
Jason Elkins (21:34.69)
You were the one raising your hand. I know the answer. know, I know. Pick me, pick me. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Do you, I know this was a while ago, not too long ago. You’re pretty young, but do you remember like some of the other kids? Were they inspired in the same way? Do you know if any of them went on to work with Americans or English speaking people or actually, you know, work in the industry or do you, do you know?
Mariami Khuberashvili (21:37.376)
Yes. Yeah, I was that kid in English.
Mariami Khuberashvili (22:02.958)
yes, now I can recall that most of my classmates work in organizations where they mainly need English language as their work language. So yeah, we were ready for this. We wanted this like we were the free Georgia kids.
Jason Elkins (22:27.394)
Do you think that if they brought in an English teacher that was not very much fun?
Mariami Khuberashvili (22:33.709)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (22:35.576)
Just real serious, just how much, guess what I’m saying is were you guys so thirsty for knowledge in English culture and language that it didn’t matter if the teacher was good or not, you still would have embraced it or do you think his personality and the way he approached it had a huge impact?
Mariami Khuberashvili (22:56.462)
Well, we were kids, so the personality and the games and competitions was like what we liked, I guess. Because I had a Russian language teacher as well. She was very, very conservative. And yeah, I don’t speak very good Russian.
Jason Elkins (23:10.743)
No.
Jason Elkins (23:16.386)
Well, that’s the reason I wanted to ask is because there may be somebody listening to this that’s a teacher or wants to be a teacher or whatever. And when I look at you and I listen to you and I see the look on your face when you describe this, it’s like people can make an impact, a really big impact, especially when we’re talking about cross-cultural things.
Mariami Khuberashvili (23:34.668)
yes.
Jason Elkins (23:39.274)
I mean, it’s possible you could have had a fun math teacher from Georgia. If that’s possible, I don’t know. But you can have a teacher that teaches math. That’s a lot of fun that maybe you grow up and you become a mathematician or a scientist or something like that. But I think when it comes to the human and interpersonal connections, that language and that cultural difference creates a pretty cool.
opportunity I guess I don’t know where going with this do know where I’m going with this?
Mariami Khuberashvili (24:10.702)
Yeah, you’re right. Learning a new language is always like a window to the other world. And it makes you see the things differently and see different things in different nations.
Jason Elkins (24:26.808)
Did you ever have an English teacher or have you ever come across an English teacher that was Georgian? I suspect so. what’s the difference? Like set aside, try and set aside his personality and if that’s even possible. Do you, let me put it this way. If you had a…
Mariami Khuberashvili (24:34.615)
yes, I had several. Yes, yes.
Jason Elkins (24:55.764)
If you were your parents back in the day and you’ve got your daughter and you want her to learn English or you’re open to her learning whatever she wants to learn and you had a choice between putting her in a classroom with an English teacher from the UK or the US or putting her in a classroom with an English teacher from Georgia.
Would you have any preference? there based on your experience, would you choose one over the other or do think it matters?
Mariami Khuberashvili (25:27.826)
That’s a very good question. I really don’t know because in my case, certainly not my generation case, the tandem or how to say like the the synergy of Georgian and American teacher worked quite well because he was the fun teacher, he would teach us with games.
And the she was Georgian one was the one who would explain why things were like that. because for example, in Georgian language, don’t have he or he and she, we just have one word that so we would need somebody to explain what that was and why you have two words for like.
Jason Elkins (26:21.07)
That’s a big conversation we need to be careful because that’s a conversation going on now in the world. He, she, him, her, yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (26:24.261)
Hahaha
Yes, we don’t have that problem, you know, because we don’t have Hienchi in Georgian language. So maybe you should also.
Jason Elkins (26:37.548)
Yeah, I think there’s a push just to drop that, and that’s fine. We don’t need to go into politics. But okay, so that’s interesting.
Mariami Khuberashvili (26:41.907)
is it?
Mariami Khuberashvili (26:50.606)
So I think we needed somebody to give an explanation why things were different in that other language.
Jason Elkins (26:50.86)
I can’t… go ahead.
Jason Elkins (26:58.062)
Do you remember what he, do you, I’m not sure I wanna ask this. I’m trying to imagine teaching a classroom full of younger children, 10 to 12 to 16, probably gets worse as they get older, trying to explain the differences between he and she. It just sounds like a whole can of worms that would be a bit of a challenge these days to try and explain that in a classroom, but anyway.
Mariami Khuberashvili (27:01.422)
You can cut it.
Mariami Khuberashvili (27:23.958)
Yeah, it was not that complicated in the 90s Georgia. We did not have problems like that at that time. We were just hungry.
Jason Elkins (27:27.724)
Yeah.
Not that it’s a bad. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So all right, very cool. Do you? Do you remember the first moment when you decided I definitely want to go overseas? I want to go see something other than Georgia.
Mariami Khuberashvili (27:51.311)
I have not thought about that because we were very poor so even traveling somewhere did not come across my mind. So what happened was that I was not traveling but the world was coming to me with it and I would meet many people from different parts of the world starting from Australia to the US to the UK and Switzerland and like…
That’s how firstly I got introduced to the world, I would say. And then the first time I traveled, it was like 2016 or 2017. And it was a business trip. I went to London as a business trip. So that was the first time I left Georgia. But after that, it was a lot.
Jason Elkins (28:47.882)
After what? Meaning you traveled, you traveled quite a bit after that and you’ve, you’ve lived overseas. it’s. I, you know, it’s interesting because I’m traveling a lot and I recognize how fortunate I am to be able to do that. there’s obviously a financial side, but there’s also just the side of, you know, I was born in a place where I got a passport that makes it easy, relatively easy.
Mariami Khuberashvili (28:49.238)
It was a lot of traveling. Yes. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (29:18.138)
and many of the places I travel, the people I meet and the people I connect with, it’s not so easy, even if they have the money. It’s, it’s not so easy. So I guess where I’m going with this question is when you started to meet people from overseas, I’m just trying to get inside of the head of a guide who’s working in her home country, guiding people that are coming from outside, generally people that have the resources and the passport.
that allow them to do it.
I’m not going to ask you how necessarily you felt, but give me an idea what a guide sometimes think when they’ve got all these quote unquote rich tourists that show up in their country and does that create some jealousy or some issues or what have you seen? Because you work with guides right now. You supervise and work with guides right now that maybe you’re having similar experiences. So what would you like to share with our listeners about that side of it?
Mariami Khuberashvili (30:10.67)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (30:21.1)
Very good question. You know, the people that travel in Georgia, they are usually very well-traveled. And the well-traveled people are usually very humble and open-minded. So I never felt any kind of jealousy or something negative towards these people. It was usually an interest of how things were working in the other countries.
and how was their everyday life and things like that. And they never, never ever made me or any other guys that I can recall feel bad about themselves or something. These people are usually very humble and really, really nice people. Sometimes we, even today, we send the New Year letters to each other to see how we are doing and things like that.
And they might be quite famous people in their country, kind of very rich, but they’re like a friend to the guide that was their guide a couple of years ago. So I would say the people were really nice, so I was lucky with that.
Jason Elkins (31:36.462)
I think that’s an interesting observation because it sounds plausible that people that go to Georgia, it’s not the first place most people go. If they want to leave the US or the UK, Georgia’s probably not the first place they go. It’s probably like the 30th place they go. For me, it was number 33 or 34.
Mariami Khuberashvili (31:53.816)
Yes.
Yes, exactly.
Jason Elkins (31:59.022)
And, and I knew about Georgia when I was 17, I learned about it in school from a teacher that inspired me. Um, and somebody that’s been to that many places or is that serious about going to a place like Georgia, it’s because they want to create connections with people. They want to experience things. Um, and I’m not knocking anybody, but maybe somebody who. Hmm. Gotta be careful how I say this.
Mariami Khuberashvili (32:05.164)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (32:26.104)
but maybe somebody whose first and only trip is to Cancun, Mexico or the Bahamas might be traveling with a different view of the world. that’s not, I mean, I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico. I spent a lot of time in the Bahamas, but that’s interesting.
Mariami Khuberashvili (32:31.171)
Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (32:47.97)
May I help you?
Jason Elkins (32:49.27)
Yes, please.
Mariami Khuberashvili (32:53.57)
I’ve read that they’re like, you know, it’s common understanding that there are travelers and there are tourists. So those to come to Georgia, they are usually travelers. They want to learn about the culture, about the people, language, and so on and so on. They don’t come mainly for taking pictures and showing off to their friends that they went somewhere like they would do in front of Eiffel Tower.
So yeah, usually the people that travel in Georgia are that kind of travelers.
Jason Elkins (33:27.882)
Yeah, that’s, that’s a really good, really good explanation as opposed to the Instagram. Now I just want a picture of me in front of the Eiffel tower or the leaning tower or the whatever tower or the waterfall. And, there, and that being said, there’s some incredibly beautiful places to see in Georgia, some great photo opportunities, but it’s, but you don’t go to Georgia, I think for the, well, maybe a few people do, but I mean, it’s, I, I hear what you’re saying. We should, we should.
Mariami Khuberashvili (33:44.04)
yes.
Jason Elkins (33:56.355)
I just realized we really didn’t dig very much into the wine thing because when you said it’s a wine country, that’s like one of the first things you said about Georgia. And a lot of people listening to this that maybe aren’t aware of Georgia think, well, no, I think I thought that was France. And you’ve got a lot of experience with France as well. So let’s dig a little deeper into the importance of wine in Georgia, because I quickly learned that it can be a problem because there’s a lot of wine. People really like to drink it.
Mariami Khuberashvili (34:10.638)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (34:21.634)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:25.512)
and it’s just readily available. So help us understand the culture of wine and where Georgia fits on the map of wine for people that maybe aren’t aware.
Mariami Khuberashvili (34:37.406)
I would love to talk about the contribution of Georgia in wine culture, and especially as a person who lived in France and worked in a winery in France. So I think I can say a word. Yes. Georgia, can very confidently say that is the birthplace of
Jason Elkins (34:43.512)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (34:53.908)
I think you can. That’s why I asked.
Mariami Khuberashvili (35:04.558)
So the first wine was made here in the land of Georgia 8,000 years ago. And we can prove it by archaeological excavations and the real actual evidence. And there is a big part about wine in Georgian culture. For example, the lady who converted Georgia into Christianity, St. Nino, she came to Georgia with a cross made by
wine, wine twigs and it’s a lot of in our language, many things are related to wine and as a drink wine and as plant vine. So.
Jason Elkins (35:51.138)
Wait, wait, hold on. I heard you say as a drink wine and then as a.
Mariami Khuberashvili (35:57.399)
Like, you know it’s wine with V and wine with W? Like, that’s what I mean. I don’t know how to pronounce it differently.
Jason Elkins (36:02.37)
okay. Yep. Okay. So wine and it’s close wine and vine. So the vine is what the grapes grow on. And then you take the grapes and smash them and turn them into wine. Is that, am I hearing the words right? Vine and wine.
Mariami Khuberashvili (36:10.765)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (36:17.952)
Yes. okay. Yeah, but…
Jason Elkins (36:18.83)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (36:22.574)
There’s more to it, I know. Tell us more.
Mariami Khuberashvili (36:25.102)
For Georgians, you know, our language is also a phonetic language, so VU is just VU for me, and it’s difficult for me to see the difference between V and W. Not very good job, Thomas.
Jason Elkins (36:40.59)
He didn’t spend enough time talking about wine and vine. Okay. Anyway, well, it’s like me trying to pronounce your last name for you. You’re like, come on, this is easy, but you know, it’s a yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Geez, Jason. All right. So wine, wine and vines are very important and yeah. Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (36:42.67)
you
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (36:51.022)
This is just LUL, like, come on. Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (37:01.966)
Part of Jordan culture, yes. Every family makes their own wine, even my father makes the wine. It’s not the best in the world, but it works for our family.
Jason Elkins (37:14.486)
Meaning the wine that your father makes or just not, not, you’re not, you’re not saying Georgian wine is not the best. It’s your, father’s wine is not the best. Okay.
Mariami Khuberashvili (37:17.698)
Yeah, the wine that, no, Georgian wine is the best, of course. My father’s wine is not the best, yes.
Jason Elkins (37:25.102)
I guess you won’t invite him to listen to this episode, okay?
Mariami Khuberashvili (37:28.91)
Yes. No, he knows that. I only drink his red wine. I don’t like his white wine. So, it’s a big part of our culture, of course, and it’s a different kind of a tradition of making wine in Georgia.
Jason Elkins (37:35.079)
Okay, all right, cool.
Mariami Khuberashvili (37:54.083)
We make it in clay vessels, clay jars, which are buried underground. And also we use the grape seeds, skin and stems in the vinification process while the wine is being fermented. It is fermented like the whole thing, the whole juice and skin and the whole pressed wine. It’s not separated.
Jason Elkins (38:20.93)
So in, let me just ask you this real quick, cause I know you know the answer and I don’t. but I did learn that on a trip that you set up for me to go visit a winery. but in France, they’re more likely to squeeze the juice out of the grapes and then just ferment the juice. Right. And where in, in Georgia, what I learned is it’s kind of like, they just take the whole, not the whole vine, not the whole plant, but they grab a
Mariami Khuberashvili (38:23.747)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (38:27.149)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (38:38.894)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (38:49.358)
bunch of grapes and smash it up with the stems and whatever. Put it in the, it’s quevery. Did I say that right? Quevery? Quevery? Ah, yeah. I remembered something. And, um, and they put it in there and let it just ferment, is why it has kind of a unique flavor, but also a color profile. Like with the white wines, maybe you should, you should be talking. I shouldn’t be talking. Tell us about white wines.
Mariami Khuberashvili (38:49.486)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (38:56.94)
Yes, yes, yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (39:14.114)
Yeah, very good. Yes. So in the world, we could say there is like the classic wine. The classic wine is the one that is fermented with just the juice, whatever the wine is in the world. And then there is Georgian wine, which is fermented with the whole pressed grapes with the skins and the juice.
and it is fermented underground in the clay vessel that is Georgian wine.
Jason Elkins (39:46.346)
Is what percentage, like maybe, I’m imagining, is all Georgian wine produced that way with the stems and the seeds and all this or that, or is it more of that’s the traditional way? But then some wineries also do the more classic or whatever you said, right?
Mariami Khuberashvili (40:02.883)
Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (40:08.61)
Yes, yes, very interesting. Nowadays, we mainly do the classic wine. We make the classic wine in Georgia, mainly. But we keep the tradition. I don’t know if you have tried and if you have noticed the Kvevri wine taste. It’s nice to taste once or twice, but at a dinner, I would prefer to order a classic wine. Can be made in Georgian grapes or French grapes or whatever.
Kvevri wine is usually not so easy to drink, I would say so, because there are more tannins in Kvevri Georgian traditional wine. I would call it, that’s how I see, this is the first wine. Like this is how the mankind started making wine generally.
And to honor this tradition, we make this special kind of quay revines. However, things improve, know, and things change.
Jason Elkins (41:15.128)
Do you feel a little bit nervous talking about this? Do you feel like somebody in Georgia is gonna hear you say this and say, my gosh, it’s blasphemy. What is she talking about? man, okay. Go ahead, continue. Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (41:21.614)
Yes.
Maybe, maybe, maybe some people won’t like what I say, but that’s how I see it.
Jason Elkins (41:35.522)
That’s okay. They can leave a comment in the comments. anyway, go ahead.
Mariami Khuberashvili (41:38.126)
They will think that they lost me in France.
Jason Elkins (41:44.558)
huh. Ooh, yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (41:46.38)
That Georgian woman is like… We lost her.
Jason Elkins (41:50.542)
So would you say, I don’t know if you have any clue of percentages, but I’m trying to imagine like roughly what percent of the wine that’s made in Georgia is Quavery wine, the traditional homage to the past compared to the more classical wine. Are we talking 5 % is Quavery or 20 % or?
Mariami Khuberashvili (42:12.544)
I think more. Maybe it can be 20%. I really don’t know the statistics, but what I can find in the wineries, in the supermarkets even, or wine shops, that’s how I would say that around 20 to 80%.
Jason Elkins (42:31.788)
So who drinks the Quévary wine? that mostly tourists, older generation? Okay.
Mariami Khuberashvili (42:38.55)
Well, we do drink it too, like we drink it, but…
Jason Elkins (42:44.088)
Just not with your dinner, because it’s not that easy to drink, is what I you say.
Mariami Khuberashvili (42:47.68)
Yes, like for me, would prefer, I like white wine for dinner, as long as it’s not my father’s wine.
Jason Elkins (42:58.958)
Uh-huh.
Mariami Khuberashvili (43:04.49)
But if I could choose at the dinner between the February white wine and classical white wine, I would choose classic white wine. For me, it’s more pleasant to drink.
Jason Elkins (43:18.158)
Do you think that had you not gone to France and spent time in France, like I’m saying another young woman the same age as you that has not gone to France and worked in a winery, do you think she would probably give the same answer or is this just, okay, all right.
Mariami Khuberashvili (43:24.59)
Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (43:32.943)
I don’t think so. But I don’t want this to be seen that I’m saying something negative about COVID, not wine, absolutely not. I love it. And I’m very proud that we have this tradition and that we are the birthplace of wine. What I’m just saying that it’s important to keep this tradition because this winemaking tradition is also UNESCO heritage.
Jason Elkins (43:39.084)
You’re sophisticated because you went to France.
No, no, no, it’s miracle.
Mariami Khuberashvili (44:01.176)
We should definitely keep this legacy of our ancestors inventing and creating wine. However, I think we should do both of the wine. It’s like that when ballpoint pen was invented that somebody would not use it because their ancestors did not. things improve.
Jason Elkins (44:29.08)
But there are still people that use fountain pens if they want to do calligraphy and stuff like that. And that’s a good thing.
Mariami Khuberashvili (44:32.224)
Yes. Yeah, it’s more like, how to say, honoring the ancestors kind of a thing, keeping the tradition, something like that.
Jason Elkins (44:46.478)
All right. So when I, you set up a day for me to go out with one of your team members and we went to remind me the name of the winery. I, I’m embarrassed that I’m drawing a blank, but we’re recording this and I’m not going to edit it. it was a Meze, Meze, Meze, Meze winery. We went out there, had a wonderful visit. young man that was there. Christian, Nick, Christian.
Mariami Khuberashvili (45:04.448)
muze, muze. Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (45:16.236)
I think his name is Nick.
Jason Elkins (45:17.984)
Nick. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And I shouldn’t even brought it up if I didn’t know the name, but because we are recording this and I’m not going to edit it. And, but what I can say was he was fascinating, fascinating young man. And he showed us the queries and explained the whole process and demonstrated this stuff. And at the time, I guess I almost walked away from that thinking, that’s just how they make wine in Georgia. I didn’t even realize that they also do it the more.
Mariami Khuberashvili (45:22.744)
you
Jason Elkins (45:46.766)
You say classic, which is a difficult word because classic sounds like historical, traditional, whatever. But, um, but I, I guess where I’m going with this is most of the wineries that are using the cuerva. That’s where they’re going to get, that’s where you’re going to go if you’re a tourist. Cause you don’t need to go see how they do it in Napa or France. So you go see how they, how they traditionally do it in Georgia and how they’ve been doing it for 8,000 years, which is, um, pretty.
Mariami Khuberashvili (46:04.79)
Yes!
Yes, absolutely.
Mariami Khuberashvili (46:13.643)
Exactly.
Jason Elkins (46:15.982)
pretty big deal. Okay. All right. So that’s an, and like you, I mean, wine. Yes. Cause I mean, when I first met you, very first time I met you, met you in the office and you gave me a bottle of wine and that was cool. And I enjoyed that.
Mariami Khuberashvili (46:30.585)
yes, but I had…
But we had croissants as well.
Jason Elkins (46:36.46)
We did. That’s true. But I, yeah, French, but the wine was not quavering wine. don’t think, was it? Do you remember what you gave me? I don’t, I don’t know. I’m not, I can’t tell. I opened it, I drank it. I thought it was great. So thank you. And, but where, but the reason I bring that up is it is such a big thing there. And when you walk through Tbilisi or about to me, or pretty much everywhere I went, there are wine shops, wineries.
You can walk in and buy a jug of wine. It doesn’t have to be in a bottle. I know in the U S we have boxed wine, which doesn’t always have a great reputation, but I learned that in Tbilisi, a lot of these stores, you can walk in and get a big jug that kind of looks like a water jug and carry it home with you. It’s great value, good stuff, probably a little too good of a value. I think I drank more than my fair share while I was there. And, one of the places I stayed had some wine.
Mariami Khuberashvili (47:10.338)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:33.418)
wine vines, grape vines, wine vines. Yeah. You know what mean? Wine wines over the sidewalk. And I was sitting out there and I asked the young man, said, so what do you guys do with all the grapes? And he says, come with me. And he invited me into their backyard, which is like the inner sanctum. Right? So he invited me to the backyard and his dad was back there making cha-cha. So which, which we need to discuss. So he’s making cha-cha.
Mariami Khuberashvili (47:35.802)
Great point.
Mariami Khuberashvili (47:58.78)
Jason Elkins (48:03.214)
And they sat me down and we had cha cha and we had some sort of treat that they mixed by mixing like the grapes, the red grapes with flour and something to like a jam. It’s kind of like a jam that you put on. Well, I put it on bread. They said, you just eat it like that. I know. that it? I asked him, I said, do you dip something in this? Do you put it on something? And they know you just eat it just like it is. So I did while I was with them, but then they gave me a whole bowl.
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:15.574)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:19.864)
Did you?
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:28.365)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (48:31.96)
Then I got sneaky and I went back into my room and pulled out some bread, which George is also very well known for. And it’s amazing on bread. What do they call that stuff?
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:36.206)
you
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:42.156)
We call it two names, it’s maybe Tatara or Pelamoshin.
Jason Elkins (48:46.942)
That sounds familiar, but that was cool. then, so Cha-Cha, what is Cha-Cha?
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:49.582)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (48:53.23)
To simply say and be understandable easier for the people who are listening to us, it’s kind of a Georgian version of Italian grappa. So what happens when we said that we ferment grape juice and skins together. And after the fermentation, the grape juice is taken out from the quaver and moved to a smaller quaver for aging.
Jason Elkins (49:03.459)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (49:18.89)
And we are left with this fermented grape skin and stems and whatever pressed grapes which are already fermented without juice. And there’s a lot of sugar and alcohol in it. So the smart Georgians distilled alcohol out of it, which is called chaja. And…
Jason Elkins (49:43.758)
Okay, so I suspect you’re definitely more familiar with the process than I am. I watched him making cha-cha, but it was already in, it looks like a still, you know, I would call it still. I don’t know if that’s a common word at Georgia, but so do they literally just take the stems and the skins and the seeds and all that stuff and put it in a pot and cook it until all the steam comes off of it and then the steam condenses?
Mariami Khuberashvili (49:49.454)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (49:53.646)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:10.988)
And they do that maybe a couple times or something. And eventually they get what’s so grappa is kind of like, it’s kind of like vodka made out of grapes. I don’t know. Is it okay. And it’s got a strong flavor. It’s, it’s tasty. Does your dad make that too?
Mariami Khuberashvili (50:11.105)
Yes.
Exactly.
Mariami Khuberashvili (50:22.36)
Yes, it’s correct. Yes, yes, we call it. Yes, yes. Yeah. that’s job of my brother. He’s the Jaja guy after my dad makes the, after the fermentation, it’s my brother who makes Jaja. And it’s usually a big celebration at home because all of his friends are there.
They are drinking their chacha and whatever you witnessed with your host, like many of his friends are there.
Jason Elkins (51:01.866)
It was so cool. was the couple that owned the place and then their son who was kind of the translator. Not kind of, he was the translator. And we just sat there and the father kept giving me more shots of cha-cha. And his son is like, you gotta be careful with that. You don’t wanna have the cha-cha with too much food or this or that. But then his mom kept bringing out food.
Mariami Khuberashvili (51:21.666)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (51:27.68)
And he kept saying, you shouldn’t have cha-cha with food, which I don’t know, but she kept giving me food. So we’re sitting there eating and drinking cha-cha. was actually quite a nice experience. And then I saw him the next morning, he said, how are you doing this morning? And I was like, But the tartara, let’s talk, did I say right? Tartara? Tartara? Tartara? Because I tried to explain that to my mother as having a conversation about this grape, it’s not jelly.
Mariami Khuberashvili (51:38.541)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (51:46.072)
Tatara yes.
Jason Elkins (51:55.32)
And I told her, I think it’s grape and flower. And she thought that sounded weird. So maybe I should ask you and then I’ll ask her to listen to this episode so she can understand what I was talking about.
Mariami Khuberashvili (52:05.516)
Yes, you’re right. It’s grape juice before fermentation and it’s wheat flour. And before fermentation, the grape juice is like regular juice, just sweet. So what you do is that you mix the wheat flour and the grape juice on a low heat and you just stir it constantly.
Jason Elkins (52:17.698)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (52:34.51)
And then it becomes thick like jelly and very, very sweet. And it’s like a Georgian, maybe the only dessert we have in Georgia. We don’t have any other sweets, basically. Do we?
Jason Elkins (52:48.706)
well, okay. I have a few follow up questions on that, but before I go there, apparently grape juice and flour sounds really weird to Americans. That’s a what? But I understand that the flour is a thickening agent, kind of helps it gel up, right? The starches in the flour. I assume it’s probably not a lot of flour, but then mix a little flour with the grape juice and then just boil it down until
Mariami Khuberashvili (53:05.452)
Yes, exactly.
Mariami Khuberashvili (53:12.812)
Yeah, later.
Jason Elkins (53:16.064)
It’s super concentrated grape juice with flour to thicken it up. And we discussed eating it on bread and you kind of made a face. So it’s like, you don’t eat it on anything. You just take a spoon and you just eat it off the spoon. Right. And if you eat it any other way, they know you’re a foreigner immediately. Apparently.
Mariami Khuberashvili (53:30.156)
Yes, like jello or…
If you eat with, because it’s full of carbs and sugar, and if you eat it with bread, it’s even more carbs for you, which is not good. We usually eat it with hazelnut, walnut, and it can be sprinkled on top, on the plate, or sometimes…
Jason Elkins (53:44.366)
Okay.
Mariami Khuberashvili (54:02.85)
but not sometimes like the main thing that we do out of this jelly tatara is the candy that looks like candle. You must have seen it in Georgia many, many times. you have the walnut on string that you have pre-prepared it and dried very well. And then you just put it in the jelly.
Jason Elkins (54:12.962)
Jason Elkins (54:17.006)
We’re just making the connection. Okay.
Mariami Khuberashvili (54:32.788)
and stir it a little bit so you take out and it looks like a candle and then it dries on the sun and it’s like the sweetest thing and my favorite sweet or candy.
Jason Elkins (54:45.548)
Okay. I’m happy you had this conversation because I did not make the connection. that I can’t remember how the, the final, the final part, George, George, George, George, something like that. And I’ve heard her Georgian Snickers. think someone told me it’s a Georgian Snickers bar. And for anybody that’s listening, it’s probably like, has no idea what we’re talking about, but when
Mariami Khuberashvili (54:55.726)
Churchela.
Yes, we call it Georgian candy.
Mariami Khuberashvili (55:06.316)
Yes, yes, some people say so.
Jason Elkins (55:14.094)
I’ll share that when I first saw a video of them hanging, they kind of look like candles. If you went to a candle shop and they were selling candlesticks, you know, with a string through the candlestick and it’s looped over something and then there’s another candle on the other side, just to visualize it looks like you’re at a candle shop. And initially when I saw them, I thought they were candles. And then I learned a little bit more that they’re Georgian Snickers bars. But I,
Mariami Khuberashvili (55:34.391)
exception.
Mariami Khuberashvili (55:41.453)
Hehe
Jason Elkins (55:43.982)
Here’s what I should have asked when I was there, but I was afraid to. When you eat, so when you buy one, you’ve got this long skinny thing. It’s about a foot long or so. It’s kind of lumpy looking with this tartara around it. What’s the right way to eat it? Do you just kind of tear it in half and then pull the string through it? Like, how do you get it off the string? Because that’s what you do, right?
Mariami Khuberashvili (55:46.787)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (56:00.696)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (56:10.474)
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Very logical,
Jason Elkins (56:12.91)
Okay. All right. I thought so, but I jumped, I jumped in someone’s car. think it was, um, Gagi is Gagi. That guy you sent me out with. Yeah. I jumped in his car and I was afraid to ask him. So I just broke it in half and stripped it off. And then pieces of walnut went flying all around his car. And I was like, Oh geez. So I wasn’t sure. All right. Cool.
Mariami Khuberashvili (56:22.114)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (56:29.089)
Exactly.
That’s how we eat it, yes. Also, the story of this candy is related to the history of Georgia, because you know we’ve been always in fight and in wars. That was the main food for the soldiers, because when it is dried, it can last for a very long time, so the warriors would take it with them as their main food.
And it’s full of carbs. The walnuts and hazelnuts are really nice for the brain and good oils are in it. So it was the main food for the warriors of Georgia.
Jason Elkins (57:12.812)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (57:18.09)
It’s starting to get clear why it seems weird that I would spread it on a piece of bread. Now, as you kind of share this and you’re talking about the carbs and the combination with the nuts, I’m like, okay, I get that now because in my world, anything that’s looks like fruit jelly gets spread on bread. That’s just kind how I was raised. But, and it doesn’t really melt, right? I mean, I don’t know if it gets, which it seems pretty cool because you can buy one.
Mariami Khuberashvili (57:25.271)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (57:43.629)
No.
Jason Elkins (57:47.862)
and throw it your backpack and snack on it through the day or probably days later, just like you were saying, it stores really well and doesn’t melt, make a mess.
Mariami Khuberashvili (57:48.237)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (57:51.778)
as
Mariami Khuberashvili (57:56.719)
Yes, it doesn’t melt, it doesn’t spoil, you can save it for years even. And it’s good to save for a long time because if you eat it or you snack on it, so that’s bad diabetes.
Jason Elkins (58:13.102)
Yeah, gotcha. I’m happy with this conversation. Go ahead.
Mariami Khuberashvili (58:18.177)
It’s,
It’s very high in sugars and in calories, like really, really high. Maybe for a very short time to have it as a snack every day.
Jason Elkins (58:33.375)
Just if you’re visiting Georgia, then you could probably have one a day for a week or two.
Mariami Khuberashvili (58:35.27)
Just when you’re visiting, it’s okay, yes. As a Georgian, it would not be a good idea to snack on it all the time.
Jason Elkins (58:42.722)
I’m happy to have this conversation. hope somebody is listening to this that is planning to visit Georgia soon and will just go buy it. Because if you don’t know much, you don’t have anybody to explain it to you. It’s a little, I’m not easily intimidated. I’ll try anything. But to walk up to one of these places where they’ve got all these different colors and varieties.
It can get a little overwhelming unless you’re in the tourist area. The shop owners aren’t necessarily going to speak a lot of English. So walk me, walk the typical tourist shows up in DeBlazee sees these things that look like candles hanging in the market. What should they know to help them walk up confidently, buy one, not embarrass themselves completely and go about their way with a piece of chalk, chalk, chalk, what’s it called?
Mariami Khuberashvili (59:23.128)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (59:35.151)
You can just buy and try it. I think maybe you should not buy the ones which are very colorful because now they make some with pomegranate juice or kiwi juice. That is not very traditional. The original one is made out of grape juice so whatever looks like it can be made out of grape juice.
I would buy that one.
Jason Elkins (01:00:07.072)
Okay, so what I’m hearing is purple, burgundy color or brown. saw some that were quite brown.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00:11.478)
Yes, brown, yes. Yes, because when it dries, it gets brown when it’s made out of grape juice. The brown, yes.
Jason Elkins (01:00:20.494)
so maybe the brown one is actually the better, that has the least amount of colors added in, maybe? I don’t know.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00:27.776)
Exactly. Yes, yes, brown is a good brown. I would buy one.
Jason Elkins (01:00:32.406)
So you can just walk up and point at a brown one and say, me one or two or whatever. They will cut them down. They’ll hand them to you, stick them in a bag for you, and then just pull it out. This is going to be on video. some people will see this on video. Pull the whole string out at once, or do you just kind of tear off a piece and rip the piece off of the string? The cool people take this. Don’t eat the string.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00:39.459)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00:48.394)
and pull the string out.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:00:58.136)
whatever, as long as you need the string to be out. So whatever, you take it out.
Jason Elkins (01:01:04.28)
Get the string out. All right, so tear it off the string. Just chew it, eat it. No big surprises. Okay, all right. I think we just did a useful service to somebody because they’re intriguing. But if you don’t know, you don’t like, you don’t know if, is there sausage inside of those or those candles or those whatever. And, you know, so thank you for sharing that. Maybe not it. I’m generally not that hesitant to ask questions, but.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:01:10.051)
Yeah.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:01:28.462)
You’re welcome.
Jason Elkins (01:01:33.29)
Sometimes, anyway. All right. So what’s the biggest surprise that you’ve seen with clients when they come to Georgia the first time? What’s the thing that surprises them the most? Is there a common theme?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:01:48.495)
They are often surprised by our feeling of nationality and feeling of being Georgian and not being, I don’t know, maybe the stronger, how strong our identity as Georgians is because I’ve met many people that were very surprised that we don’t, well, what do you mean you don’t speak Russian? Is not your language similar to Russian?
So I think that’s what I’ve heard the most from travelers.
Jason Elkins (01:02:25.358)
Let me ask you this. I got the impression that maybe it’s the older generation, but quite a few people do speak some Russian. But I got the feeling that if I started a conversation with, I’m 52, if I start a conversation with someone around my age and I say, well, you speak Russian, don’t you? Even if they do, they might get offended. They’re like, what do you mean? Why would I speak Russian? I’m Georgian.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:02:34.829)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:02:46.936)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:02:53.933)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:02:54.222)
But the answer is yes, they do speak Russian. me assuming they speak Russian can be offensive. Is that, am I right?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:03:02.208)
It is, yeah, because they’ve occupied us in the Soviet times and even now they have parts of Georgia still under occupation. So we are not happy with that because it’s not our choice. We were forced to speak this language for a while. So it’s kind of a symbol of oppression, something like that.
Jason Elkins (01:03:24.864)
So will some people like even though they speak it, they just almost refuse to, they know how to speak it, but just as a sense of pride, they don’t because they don’t wanna, yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:03:30.595)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:03:34.465)
Yes, we don’t. But nowadays, I think the internet changed a lot of things because I think I am the last generation that speaks Russian in Georgia and the people born after me, they don’t already speak Russian. My generation, we just choose not to. But I have a really funny story. The other day I was in a cafe.
And one Russian lady came in and without asking if the staff spoke Russian or without asking her anything, she started talking to the staff in Russian. And there was this waitress, she was looking at her with empty eyes. She did not understand what she was saying. And the Russian lady was just asking, how much is the water? That’s what she was asking.
Jason Elkins (01:04:31.213)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:04:32.152)
But this girl was just looking and then she said, can you tell me in English? And this Russian lady just did not say a word and she just left. And then this waitress went back to the other waitresses and she asked, like, what did she want? So in that moment, I understood that she really did not understand what that lady was saying. Like she really did not know Russian and I was very happy that the
Jason Elkins (01:04:56.578)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:05:01.754)
stuff also they were like we don’t know like I don’t know what what you wanted like it was not English and that’s how when I felt like like a dinosaur that was the first time in my life I felt old they were all
Jason Elkins (01:05:20.396)
Yeah. Well, welcome to the party, Mariam. it’s, that’s interesting because as an outsider, you show up, you just, you hear Russian, you see, especially older people that I can’t really tell if they’re Georgian based on looks or, mean, I kind of have a guess, but I also realize, you know, people don’t all look the same. and there’s a little bit of an expert for me. I’m thinking, yeah, everybody here probably knows some Russian.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:05:40.184)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:05:50.444)
Just cause you see it on street signs and you see old remnants of stuff. So it’s easy for me to assume that maybe people speak it, but it sounds like that’s not the right assumption. So that’s a good surprise. It reminds me of France. reminds me of like, I’m well, no, that doesn’t remind what you just shared, but what I was saying earlier about like, yes, I speak it, but I’m not going to. It’s like, you you go to France and did you speak French when you went to France?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:06:19.188)
Yes. Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:06:19.522)
When you first got there, okay, you were probably way out of the game. Cause as an American, you show up in Paris, if you’re not trying to speak French, you’re not going to get anywhere. Even though most of the people speak English. Well, I don’t know if that sounds disparaging, but I, when I first went, I was a teenager and I had been taking French. So I did fine, but my grandparents would try and speak with somebody in English and they’re like, no, I don’t speak English.
And then I would start speaking to them in French and then all of a they spoke English. It was amazing. but anyway, very cool. boy. We’ve discussed a bunch of stuff and I want to make sure if there’s, I’m sure there’s, I think we could just keep going. It’s fascinating conversation, but I want to ask you this. What did I forget to ask you or what do you wish that I had asked you either about yourself,
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:07:03.533)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:07:13.428)
Magic Roads or Georgia, just life in general. What would you like to make sure our listeners here before we wrap?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:07:33.595)
Can you cut this later? Because I might be able to think.
Jason Elkins (01:07:37.952)
No, no, it’s, okay. know I, I know I kind of put you on the spot. but you know, if there’s just anything rolling around, you know, one of the things really intrigued me about both this conversation and what you’d said is that sense of pride, that sense of patriotism. agree with you a hundred percent. That was something that really, impressed me even when you were sharing your story when you were young and visitors started showing up and you want it. I heard you say, I want to share my country.
with people and that’s something I definitely got while I was there. And I got the impression that even some people that like, I really would like to live overseas, live somewhere else, but they’re not going to tell you that they’re like, what do you think of my country? Everybody I met it’s like, you know, do you like Georgia? What do you think of my country? And I would say, I really, really love it here. It’s beautiful. And the people.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:08:04.781)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:08:26.616)
And maybe inside they’re thinking, well, I wish I could go to your country or whatever, but they’re not going to say it. It was just my story in my head. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s true, but.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:08:35.63)
Yeah, I remember. What I want to spread the word about Georgia is that it’s extremely safe country, which can be a common misconception about Georgia being in this region. But it’s like one of the safest countries in the world. And that’s what I would like to explain to our listeners, that there’s
almost like no threat to traveling in Georgia. Even as a single woman traveling alone, I would be quite confident traveling in Georgia.
Jason Elkins (01:09:18.858)
I definitely, I’m happy you brought that up because there’s a challenge that I suspect you’re much more aware of than I am. But Tbilisi, if you watch YouTube videos of Tbilisi, because I watched a lot of them before I went. And even when I was there, if you don’t know better, you might look around yourself and say, wow, this place looks kind of dangerous, to be honest. And that’s because some of the buildings are older.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:09:48.504)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:09:48.726)
I think they’re charming. Charming is one way to put them, but another way to put them might be as some of them are kind of dilapidated and there’s a lot of graffiti. and there’s a lot of things that I saw in Tbilisi that some people might use or might interpret as, this looks like a bad neighborhood. But, but I’ll tell you what.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:10:00.015)
Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:10:14.158)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:10:16.5)
I was completely comfortable walking around it and I didn’t do this a lot. don’t want our listeners get the wrong idea of what I’m doing when I’m traveling. But there were a few times I was out, met some friends and we were out late because they do that. I met you and a friend and a couple of friends out one night and you know, it’s like three in the morning. You can walk. I felt perfectly comfortable walking around in these neighborhoods with graffiti everywhere.
holding my iPhone, walking down the street, never worried about anybody approaching me. I never once felt uncomfortable. And I had some female friends that were out and about late at night as well. it was, I felt completely safe there. Not for a moment did I feel nervous about anything. so I’m happy you brought that up because looks, sometimes you can’t judge by a book by its cover.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:11:10.775)
Yes, yes.
Jason Elkins (01:11:10.89)
And yeah, so all right. Very, very cool. Well, I sure appreciate you sharing everything. We’re going to have a link to the website right in the show notes. So anybody that’s like, man, I need to go to Georgia. We’ve got a lot of other tour operators if you’ve got. Actually, I was connected with you through a guest that we had on the show.
who I’d reached out to some of my network and said, hey, I’m going to Georgia. Who do I need to connect with? And was given your name. So there’s a lot of tour operators that listen to this. I just think you, you know, because you work a little bit directly with clients. We discussed this when I had Tamuna on the show not too long ago, but it’s mostly working as a DMC, right? Okay, very cool. So hang on one second.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:11:38.434)
Yes.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:11:52.865)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:12:00.206)
All right. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Maryam. I enjoyed the conversation and look forward to working on some more projects with you in the future and maybe having you back on the show at some point.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:12:09.984)
Absolutely. Yes. Thanks for having me, Jason. It’s lovely to do this podcast.
Jason Elkins (01:12:12.76)
Thank you, thank you. And hey, I will ask you this question because I recently learned the word for thank you in Georgian is madlova. And then I heard someone say that that’s also the same word for goodbye. Is that right? Or did I misinterpret that?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:12:20.962)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:12:30.318)
Mmm.
Jason Elkins (01:12:32.108)
That’s not right, right? So what, how do you say goodbye?
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:12:36.61)
hope you enjoyed this video.
Jason Elkins (01:12:39.534)
Okay, I’m not even gonna try that. Nah, nah, roam das?
Dachram dis.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:12:46.541)
That’s… Word by word means until the next time, until I see you, something like
Jason Elkins (01:12:58.126)
Sounds very good. I like that. that right there is why I learned about three or four words in two months in Georgia right there. So thank you so much. Appreciate you. All right. Have a good day. Bye bye.
Mariami Khuberashvili (01:13:07.586)
Thank you, bye bye.
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