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Episode #188: Mike Engiles

Executive Manager

Crystal River Watersports | Florida

Episode #188: Mike Engiles
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Guest Bio

Mike Engiles serves as the Executive Manager of Crystal River Watersports, a family-run business since 2014 dedicated to offering sustainable nature experiences along Florida’s Nature Coast. Under Mike’s leadership, Crystal River Watersports specializes in guided manatee swim tours, scuba diving, scalloping excursions, and river cruises, all focused on observing and preserving the local aquatic environment.

Originally from Pennsylvania, Mike holds multiple degrees in business from Pennsylvania State University and spent years in information technology consulting near Washington, D.C. His move to Citrus County, Florida, was driven by a desire to work more closely with people in the hospitality industry while sharing his love for the outdoors, particularly scuba diving. Beyond his business role, Mike has contributed extensively to local environmental and tourism efforts, including serving on advisory boards and participating in statewide initiatives like the Florida Adventure Tourism Network. His family remains deeply involved in the business, with his children certified as scuba instructors and licensed boat captains.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Mike Engiles about his journey from a career in IT consulting to managing Crystal River Watersports, a unique operation centered on connecting visitors with Florida’s manatees and natural waterways. Mike shares insights into the delicate balance of offering immersive wildlife experiences while protecting these gentle giants under federal guidelines.

The conversation explores the biology and behavior of manatees, the importance of conservation, and the challenges of responsible tourism. Mike also discusses how Crystal River Watersports has adapted over the years, including shifts to private tours post-COVID and expanding into scuba trips and scalloping excursions during Florida’s warmer months. Listeners gain a behind-the-scenes look at the logistics of running a seasonal water-based business with a focus on ecological preservation.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Crystal River Watersports offers ecologically responsible manatee swim tours, emphasizing minimal disturbance to wildlife.
  • ✓ Manatees are gentle, large marine mammals with distinctive paddle tails, closely related to elephants, and require warm water habitats in winter.
  • ✓ Swimming calmly and moving slowly in manatee habitats enhances the experience and respects animal behavior.
  • ✓ The business operates year-round with a bimodal season: manatee tours in cooler months and scalloping adventures in summer.
  • ✓ Safety and education are priorities, including briefing guests on appropriate behavior and minimizing impacts on with the environment.
  • ✓ Mike’s background in business analysis and IT helped him implement inventory controls and digital booking systems in the company.
  • ✓ The local economy and ecosystem benefit from ongoing conservation efforts and community engagement to protect manatees.
  • ✓ The company also offers dive training and organizes scuba trips to destinations such as Fiji and Florida wreck sites.
  • ✓ Family involvement is also important to Mike. His son John manages operations, and his daughter Alyssa occasionally fills the role of dive instructor or boat captain.

What You’ll Find on Crystal River Watersports

  • ✓ Guided manatee swim tours designed to provide close encounters while preserving natural behavior.
  • ✓ Seasonal scalloping charters in the clear, shallow waters of the Gulf of Mexico with private boats.
  • ✓ Scuba diving excursions and dive training in nearby springs and coastal areas.
  • ✓ Private tours tailored to guests’ interests, allowing flexibility to explore beyond manatees.
  • ✓ Educational briefings focused on wildlife protection, safety, and responsible interaction.
  • ✓ Organized dive travel to international and domestic locations, accommodating divers and snorkelers alike.

Learn more about Crystal River Watersports | Florida and connect with Mike at:

https://crystalriverwatersports.com/

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Podcast Transcript

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Jason Elkins (00:00.928)
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today, and super excited to have our guest today. We’ve got Mike Angles. Mike is the executive manager, slash owner, slash man of many hats at Crystal River Water Sports. Mike, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

Mike Engiles (00:22.712)
Yeah, thank you, Jason. I’m glad to be here. It should be fun.

Jason Elkins (00:25.174)
Yeah. It’s it’s gonna be a lot of fun. And right before I hit the record button we were discussing kind of, you know, titles and all this stuff and you kind of indicate there’s a few things going on. One is the owner, executive manager. I know in in business sometimes owners do a lot of different things. So is there anything else we would need to add to that title?

Mike Engiles (00:44.75)
What I have on Facebook is I’m the chief wetsuit washer. So does that count?

Jason Elkins (00:48.65)
see, I know I knew that about you. yeah, yeah, very cool. And you mentioned wetsuit, we kind of already mentioned water sports, so people are probably making the connections if they just clicked into this and and didn’t read the bio or the notes yet. obviously you’re working with water and wetsuits. So before we go into your story to figure out how you got from where you were to washing wetsuits, let’s give our listeners kind of an idea what is Crystal River water sports. What do you guys do there?

Mike Engiles (00:51.556)
Huh.

Mike Engiles (01:18.916)
So primarily we’re a manatee swim tour company. So we like to give people the experience of swimming with manatees in their natural environment. They’re not captive animals. and we try to do it in the most ecologically or sustainable way possible. So

Jason Elkins (01:35.182)
All right. wow, you’ve practiced that. That’s really good. Very cool. You’ve been doing it a while. You’ve had some time. Okay. A couple days. I get that. And you know, here’s the thing, Mike. People are listening to this from around the world. If you’ve been around Florida, you automatically kind of know what a manatee is. You have an idea of what we’re talking about. There may be some other people that are listening to this, like, what the heck? Manatee swim tour, swim with manatees.

Mike Engiles (01:39.716)
Yeah, flour.

Couple days.

Jason Elkins (02:03.884)
So I don’t know how we’re gonna do this on a podcast, but help help those listeners that have no idea what a manatee is, because I suspect there’s someone out there that doesn’t, or maybe a few people. What how do you describe what a manatee is when you don’t have the ability to show them a picture?

Mike Engiles (02:18.86)
Well it depends on if they’re about to swim with I if they’re about to swim if they’re about to swim, we’ll say they’re a fifteen hundred pound butterfly. They’re they’re about the most gentle creature you could find. However, they are large. so an adult manatee is ten to twelve feet long and twelve hundred, fifteen hundred pounds, but we have some overachievers that are actually closer to twenty five hundred pounds in the area. So,

Jason Elkins (02:21.687)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (02:28.192)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (02:34.413)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (02:47.032)
Wow.

Mike Engiles (02:48.452)
Their cousins, the Dugongs. I was on a trip recently with folks from Australia, so he was yanking my chain, asked me why I had a platypus on my shirt, and then he’s like, No, I know it’s a dugong. It’s no, it’s not dugong either, but it it’s a manatee. so it’s actually the West Indian manatee, and we have the largest population of them on the west coast of Florida.

Jason Elkins (03:01.56)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (03:13.836)
So we’ll have in this area about eleven, twelve hundred in the winter on a cold day. So they come into the springs in the winter to get away from the cold waters of the Gulf.

Jason Elkins (03:24.622)
Okay, very cool. So manatee and dugong are closely related. is there a significant difference between the two? Like somebody that knows a dugong, what would be the difference between a dugong and a manatee without going into genetics and chromosomes and all that stuff?

Mike Engiles (03:29.454)
Yes.

Mike Engiles (03:38.456)
Yeah yeah no but the the whole the whole biology. the most obvious feature is the tail. A dugong has a tail like a dolphin, so it’s kinda split, where a manatee has a paddle tail. So that that’s the most obvious difference. If you look at the facial, it’s a little different because manatees eat at the bottom so their face looks down, dugong’s kinda look forward.

Jason Elkins (03:50.35)
Okay. Okay.

Mike Engiles (04:05.592)
But from a distance you’re gonna notice the difference in the tail.

Jason Elkins (04:05.837)
No, okay.

Jason Elkins (04:09.43)
Okay. So I’ve heard of obviously manatee. I’ve seen manatee. I’ve seen I don’t I’m not I probably haven’t seen a Dukong. Is are is there another closely related species that someone might connect with? I know I’ve also heard like them called sea cows. are there other a few other tur terms that people might be like, yeah, I know what he’s talking about.

Mike Engiles (04:29.442)
Yeah. Well I mean if you go back to Christopher Columbus, you know, when he first saw them in the Caribbean, he he called he said mermaids were not nearly as attractive as legend had made out to be. And that’s actually in one of his logs, from our eighteen or fourteen ninety two. No. Fourteen ninety six maybe, somewhere in there. But anyway, yeah, it’s actually in his log, that manatees were not as pretty as Legend made it.

Jason Elkins (04:51.575)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (04:59.2)
No, they’re their own orders. Serenia, which sirens Irenia, mermaid, you know, ties all you know, ties back together. there really isn’t anything too terribly close. Their closest relative is actually an elephant. So there are a lot of biological features where they’re similar, including their memory and the way they teach young where food and water sources are and things like that. So there’s a lot

Jason Elkins (05:04.576)
Yep, yep.

Jason Elkins (05:14.998)
Mm.

Mike Engiles (05:26.756)
There’s a certainly a lot of biological as well as ecological or environmental similarities.

Jason Elkins (05:34.638)
Okay. Very cool. I love the story of the siren and I suspect it’s come up in conversations. You mentioned Sirenia. Is that how you say the class the is it the class name? Sirenia. And I I kinda thought it was a story that everybody knew about mermaids and sirens and and all this, but then I I had a conversation with someone recently and they had no idea what I was talking about.

Mike Engiles (05:43.908)
Ye yes.

Jason Elkins (05:59.478)
So is there any any mythological stories or anything like that about mermaids and sirens and all that stuff just because you mentioned the word siren? I know it’s not a manatee story maybe, but go ahead.

Mike Engiles (06:09.122)
Yeah Yeah, no, not directly or certainly not in this area. I mean although one of the other things we do is we do mermaid lessons as well.

Jason Elkins (06:19.022)
Yeah, I saw that on your website. I wasn’t gonna bring that up, but yeah. It’s pretty cool.

Mike Engiles (06:22.552)
Yeah. So Wiki Watchy, which is just south of where we are in Florida, has had a live mermaid show since the nineteen forties. So they’ve got an underwater viewing area and they’ve had a live show going on there for what eighty couple years now. So yeah, having said that, we needed a guinea pig for a mermaid course, so I put a tail on and I got certified as a mermaid. So

Jason Elkins (06:32.829)
okay.

Jason Elkins (06:39.721)
Uh-huh. Okay. That’s cool. I I

Jason Elkins (06:48.462)
Ha ha

Mike Engiles (06:50.326)
I I I actually I probably have a card here somewhere saying I’m certified.

Jason Elkins (06:55.286)
So so Mike, you just reinforced Columbus’s theory or what what he said about mermaids are not quite as attractive as we all thought. I mean you’re a good looking guy, but

Mike Engiles (07:03.098)
Yeah n yeah, n no doubt, right?

I don’t know. I usually say I’ve got a I’ve got a face for radio, not for podcasts.

Jason Elkins (07:14.318)
Cool. so I’d heard the kind of this the s the myth or the story was the mermaid was this mythical creature. You take a bunch of men and you put on a ship and sail across the Atlantic.

They tend to start fantasizing and thinking about maybe what men do when they’re away from their girlfriends or their their families or whatever for a while and they kind of get a little bit, you know, fantastical or whatever. And then there was this story that the mermaids would, I guess, sit on the rocks and and do the sir the siren call. They would sing and it would draw this shipful of, I’m just gonna say horny guys, towards the sound of these beautiful sounding women, and then they’d crash on the rocks and I don’t know.

Mike Engiles (07:39.023)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (07:44.45)
And say

Jason Elkins (07:57.12)
What the mermaids did with them. Do you know the rest of the story?

Mike Engiles (07:59.766)
No, I don’t. and you’re you’re you’re testing my academic background. I think it may have been the Odyssey. Yeah, I I think it was Homer’s Odyssey versus the Iliad. It it’s somewhere back, you know, ancient Greek area era. or as one of my guides so gently puts it, you know, if they mistook if they mistaken manatees for mermaids, how long were they away from home?

Jason Elkins (08:08.556)
Yeah, yeah, maybe. I don’t know. I I don’t know where it came from.

Mike Engiles (08:29.22)
home or how much r or how much rum have they had to drink. Yeah, so you know, either one are f you know fairly plausible explanations.

Jason Elkins (08:29.811)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (08:38.274)
Well, they say if you can’t love the if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with. So maybe like when you’re in when you’re in Florida a long ways from home, maybe those manatees look pretty cute. so

Mike Engiles (08:43.822)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (08:48.152)
Now the and the and there are there’s Stu gongs over in the you know

Red Sea and there’s a a t yeah, there’s a a species of manatees in the Amazon, and there’s some on the east coast of Africa as well. So there are some different species of manatees around in different locations, but they’re they’re very disjoint populations.

Jason Elkins (08:56.689)
I didn’t know that.

Jason Elkins (09:06.295)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (09:13.582)
Okay, very cool. So let’s one thing you mentioned is when I asked you to describe it, you said they’re a fifteen hundred pound butterfly. I think something like that is what kind of what you said. But I also heard you say that when people are getting ready to swim with them, and I’m envisioning that goes on to say yes, they’re calm, they’re they’re they’re nice, they’re sweet, or whatever, that maybe a butterfly would be.

But the fact that you mentioned they’re fifteen hundred pounds, I sense there’s a little bit to I guess what I’m trying to ask is, is this part of a safety briefing? Is this like, yeah, they’re s they’re nice, but you don’t want to get between them and a boat dock or something like that. Or so tell us a like what are people what’s what are the dangers of swimming with manatees? I guess is what I’m asking.

Mike Engiles (09:53.862)
boo.

Mike Engiles (09:58.018)
Yeah, th there’s really not any danger with swimming with humanatees. it’s just people are apprehensive. We get folks from all over the world. Some of them have never really been in open water before. at a level I’m not sure some have been in water deeper than their bathtub. and they’re they’re gonna jump off a boat to swim with a a large animal. so yeah, people think fifteen hundred pounds, how big is that? Well, it’s about the size of a Clydesdale.

Jason Elkins (10:27.022)
Okay. Yep.

Mike Engiles (10:27.222)
So so for you know Americans or you know folks that you know know Budweiser commercials, you know, Clydesdales are a pretty big horse. so no, they’re they’re gentle. they do surprise you, they can be stealthy in the water. So if the water isn’t super clear, sometimes they’ll come right up to you and you turn your head and there’s a manatee right here. And we hear all kinds of expletives shouted through snorkels at that point in time.

Jason Elkins (10:50.05)
Ha ha ha ha.

Jason Elkins (10:55.928)
Uh-huh. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (10:57.25)
Because it’s it’ll scare the snot out of you if you know, all of a sudden you’re in the water and there’s something that big next to you. i it’s eye opening.

Jason Elkins (11:05.065)
yeah. Yeah, I can Well, because a lot of in my experience, I I actually managed a scuba diving and fly fishing lodge off the coast of Belize and we had manatees around the atoll. And it was but but more importantly, where I’m going with this is we also took a lot of people snorkeling for the first time. And

If you’ve never put your face in the water with a mask and a snorkel, it all it I think your body naturally has a kind of a anxious reaction to that. A lot of people the first time they do it, they’re already their adrenaline, their testosterone, or they’re just their hormones are just kinda going already. So yeah, so I can imagine if you’re like, I’m just trying to breathe here. I’m just trying to relax enough to breathe and then I look over to my left and a fifth you know, a Clydesdale is swimming around in the water with me. Yeah, I get that. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (11:55.192)
Well, a a lot of it’s just apprehension, right? Peop yeah, people hear whatever horror stories, you know, depending on the week. So they’re like, Are there gators? And the answer in Florida i if it’s wet, there’s gators. Or y and if you want to be more precise, if you taste it and there’s salt, there’s no gaiters but there’s sharks. So so depending on the people and how much of a of

Jason Elkins (12:05.134)
yeah. Okay. I got it, yeah. huh.

Jason Elkins (12:17.996)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (12:24.18)
smart alec mood I’m in. You know, it’s like, are there gators? No, you don’t have to worry about them, the sharks ate them. Hold it, there’s sharks. There’s sharks. No, no issues. The men the men no the manatees ate the sharks. And and and then it starts to click. Hold it, manatees are herbivores. Then I

Jason Elkins (12:30.636)
The sharks ate No, the gators ate

Jason Elkins (12:42.798)
Well, you probably have to tell people that. A lot of people might not know that initially. Yeah. So but and I think there is at least one species of shark that’ll go into freshwater. I I don’t know if it was the bull shark or something. They like had swim up the up some of the rivers and you know. So so do you see bull sharks sometimes even in the springs where it is freshwater?

Mike Engiles (12:48.195)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (13:06.516)
Seldom in the springs. in the winter near one of the springs it’s actually a bit of a bull shark nursery. So we’ll get juveniles there in the winter. there were some doctoral students from University of Florida actually doing a study on and every so often the guides and our little network all share pictures of a bull shark cruising through the spring while they’re on a tour, but we tend not to put that on our social media much.

Jason Elkins (13:08.248)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (13:33.39)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (13:36.942)
So am I g am I gonna are you gonna ask me to edit this out later? Hey, and you said it’s a nursery, so we’ll get juveniles, but those juveniles didn’t get there by themselves. Somebody had to bring them there, right in a sense, right? okay. All right.

Mike Engiles (13:39.802)
No we’re good.

Mike Engiles (13:51.726)
Yeah. Well, I mean it our area’s tidal. the manatees go out to the Gulf in the summer. So we get dolphins, we get tarpon, we get, you know, all kinds of saltwater fish in. So could other species swim in? Yeah, but not frequently. and chances are we’re not on the menu for any of it, so it doesn’t matter. I mean I

Jason Elkins (14:18.253)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (14:18.988)
I I was diving last week on a trip and we saw six different species of sharks on a dive. I mean it y you’re in their environment, don’t do anything stupid, but we’re not on their menu.

Jason Elkins (14:24.62)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (14:32.544)
If you roll over on your side and flap start flopping around like an injured fish, maybe, but I don’t know. It’s it’s like like you said, they’re not cruising around generally looking for for snorkelers, but yeah, it’s Yeah. Okay. I do remember I’ve I’ve been in the water diving and snorkeling with manatees and beliefs, but

Mike Engiles (14:40.408)
Yeah, you

Mike Engiles (14:45.752)
No.

Jason Elkins (14:56.524)
When you see them, they’re generally pretty far off. It’s a very remote area. They’re not hanging around in a particular spot trying to stay warm where it sounds like with the springs, you kind of they just come in there and there’s there’s boats, there’s people, so they’re just kind of maybe comfortable, I guess. but where I’m going with this is

When I have seen manatee in Belize, if I’m out on a a boat or something in shallow water, when they become aware of us, they take off at a surprisingly fast rate. so my experience of them is they get spooked and boom, they’re gone pretty quick. But it sounds like you you’re saying that the manatees in your area are just pretty curious and they’ll just come up and check people out or or do they take off really fast sometimes or

Mike Engiles (15:44.226)
Yes, all the above. so the

Jason Elkins (15:46.358)
Okay. Yeah, they’re animals. They do what they do, whatever they want to do, huh?

Mike Engiles (15:49.668)
The th they do what they do. they have the intelligence of about a five year old and they have personalities. So some are curious, especially juveniles and want to check you out. Some want absolutely nothing to do with people and just ignore you and go about their day. And some you it’s you annoy and you go to get in the water and they swim away. And we had one that would swim in a circle, flap its tail on the bottom,

Jason Elkins (15:54.861)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (16:19.85)
And mud up the area hoping to discourage people from getting in. And if you still got in, it would swim 20 feet away and like duck somewhere and wait till you left, and then it would go right back to whatever it wanted to do. so so some react. and that’s kind of the trick a little bit in doing tours is through Marine Mammal Protection Act, Endangered Species Act, you shouldn’t alter their behavior.

Jason Elkins (16:22.07)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:29.208)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:34.478)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (16:48.974)
By any of your actions. So if you’re getting in an area and the manatee swims away, you don’t want to chase it and cause it to go further away. so you know that’s kind of the golden rule with anything wild is let them do their thing, give them their space. And it certainly applies to manatees as well. But female cows, there are times, especially this time of year, where the juvenile and the the mother wants to take a nap.

Jason Elkins (16:49.366)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jason Elkins (17:05.558)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (17:17.4)
And it will swim by with a a juvenile. And the juvenile will start checking out the guest. And the female will swim 20, 30, 40 feet away, and drop down on the bottom and take a snooze. And they do make a sound. it’s kind of a chirp, but it’s not a bird chirp, but you know, it it’s an audible sound between the the cow and the calf. And you’ll see the calf’s head pop up.

and like calf look around and then go back to whatever it was doing. A and then you’ll hear it again and the calf will react that it hurt it, but doesn’t do what the mother wants it to do. And then the third time the female will swim by and like nudge the calf and off they’ll swim. So it’s kinda like I’m gonna count the three in the animal world.

Jason Elkins (17:51.094)
That’s cool.

Jason Elkins (18:09.516)
Yeah, that’s that’s that’s pretty cool. you know, as you were talking about I guess it was the the rules and the regulations that say, you know, you shouldn’t disturb them. And I’m sure your guides and your team are very up on that. I I’m I’m not sure I to ask you this, but I’m gonna ask you about this a little bit because because I’ve spent a lot of time with with clients that, you know, you’ve got the briefing, Okay, we’re gonna go diving over this reef and you know

Don’t be touching things, don’t be kicking your fins down into the reef and just and it’s not that people don’t care what you tell them, but there’s a lot of things going on, they’re excited. So I guess where I’m going with this is what are the things that you would love to convey to clients like right now when they’re c you know, they’re getting ready, they’re gonna go see you, and they’re calm, they’re able to absorb it.

Like what are the things that you see people doing that you really wish you could kind of help them not do? Like because I I’m thinking of the the person that you say, okay, we’re gonna get in the water slow and move slow, and then they just do a you know, a cannonball off the side of the boat and you’re like, my gosh. So I know you’ve seen this stuff, but I also recognize that your guests and your clients are listening to this. So so what’s the best way we can help them understand what they should and should not do?

Mike Engiles (19:31.802)
Yeah, it one of the guides puts it, manatees are calm docile creatures and they want to be around other calm docile creatures. So if you get in and you know you’re kind of you know wheels on fire, it it’s gonna spook most of them and they’re gonna swim away. And then we try to do it, you know, in a controlled environment. we have people back down the ladder to get in.

They’re not sliding off the deck, they’re not jumping. all the companies use when I got here 12 years ago, all the companies gave everybody fins. Right now, we don’t give anybody fins. because well, most people they haven’t used them before, so they don’t know how to use them. So they’re gonna stir up the bottom, they’re gonna kick each other, they’re gonna kick manatees. and

Jason Elkins (20:11.776)
Okay. Tell me about that.

Jason Elkins (20:22.999)
Yep.

Mike Engiles (20:26.358)
If they do, it allows them to go faster than you might want to anyway. So it’s really much more of a float than it is a snorkel. you know, we’re not traveling far, for the most part. So you know, com calm is the way to go. you know, at a a dive master I had in the keys years ago, you know, he used to say, you know, go fast, see a little, go slow, see a lot. And it it’s the same thing on any dive.

Jason Elkins (20:30.67)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:35.64)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:53.164)
Yeah, that’s a good

Mike Engiles (20:55.892)
you know, you’re you’re not gonna see the gobies and the neuter bronchs and you know, see that eel with just its nose sticking out or something like that if you’re cruising along the reef, you know, flutter kicking away. and it it’s it’s the same thing with manatees. If you’re nice and calm, then you can start observing what they look like and their behaviors and

Jason Elkins (21:11.202)
Yeah, that yep.

Mike Engiles (21:22.862)
You know, some of them will walk on the bottom with their flippers, you can hear them chewing when they eat. Yeah, so you know, you can start paying attention and you know and actually learn from them. or you know, learn about them and appreciate, you know, the animals and how they exist versus purely a photo op. You know, if you want to just jump in for a photo op, and obviously, you know, you get some of that and we try to get good pictures and stuff like that, but

Yeah, we’ve got to put the manatees first.

Jason Elkins (21:56.505)
Right, ’cause the manatee, the natural environment and to some extension your continued business success there. It’s dependent on, you know, protecting the resource so that people can continue to come and enjoy it. And if you know, and maybe you’ve got a client that’s like

Mike Engiles (22:05.198)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:16.194)
This is my you know, I live in New York and I’ve got one day to go swim with the manatees and I don’t care if I scare all. I just want to get in the water and take a picture. That’s that’s tough. and and I’m not knocking anybody. Everybody we all have different speeds of life. So we’re not gonna we’re not gonna s I shouldn’t have even said New York. That kind of in indicates that maybe I’m saying people in New York have a quick speed of life. But but I also remember when we were diving in Belize and it was just the, you know, you tell people, you know.

Mike Engiles (22:31.235)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:46.252)
There’s no point in chasing. Don’t like don’t chase the turtle. It’s not gonna improve the experience. But, you know, I’m not gonna say you always have one in the group, but you know, you have this whole briefing about don’t chase don’t chase them, don’t chase them. And then you get in the water and you look over your shoulder. There goes one of your clients swimming off the edge of the reef chasing the turtle and you’re like, okay.

Mike Engiles (23:07.702)
Right. obviously we’ve had that. It’s like, you know, we hit the water and it’s like, Where did they go? I know I got in with six and I can only find five people. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:10.87)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:16.206)
Yeah. Yeah. And then one of the other guests, Well, I saw him going around the corner chasing that big that big did they call him bull manage it’s because it’s cows. The females are cows, I assume the males are bulls, yeah. Yeah. All right. That’s that’s pretty cool. What it

Mike Engiles (23:25.528)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:33.4)
Before we ’cause we’re gonna get into the story, we’re gonna figure out how you got there, but is there anything else while we’re on the subject of the manatees, is there anything else you really think people need to know? Because I mean, honestly, most of what I’ve heard of manatees is about boat strikes. And I don’t know if that’s relevant to this conversation, but I think it’s a thing. So it I’d like love to hear your thoughts on it.

Mike Engiles (23:53.338)
Sh sure. there are very few adult manatees or any manatees that don’t have scars from boat strikes. they move slow, and sometimes they surface and the prop gets having said that, the boat strike from a pro or prop scar is generally not fatal. it it could be bad

But think of it like a knife cut on your arm or your leg. Certainly don’t want to do it again, and not a pleasant experience by any means, but unless you get an infection or something else happens, it’s not fatal. However, manatees have solid bones. or you know, when we were younger, or at least I was younger, you know, your bones have some flex because they have marrow in them. Manatee bones do not have marrow, so they’re solid.

Jason Elkins (24:26.583)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (24:45.304)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (24:49.462)
So if a boat strikes the manatee, it could crack the ribs. And then that the rib shatters. Does it puncture the spleen? Does it puncture, you know, a lung? So, the good news in this area, and one of the biologists, Dr. Robert Bondi, he and Roger Reap have literally written the book on manatees and studied for thirty years. they’re both out of Gainesville area.

Jason Elkins (24:55.406)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (25:00.536)
Right.

Mike Engiles (25:17.53)
And he said if I were a manatee, I’d want to be in Crystal River. And to expand on that, it’s because of the tourism industry and the guides and captains. We all go to training on what to look for and the trainings conducted by the Florida Wildlife Commission biologists as well as the US Fish and Wildlife Service biologists. And they’ll tell us what to look for in a manatee to determine if it’s ill.

Jason Elkins (25:21.677)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (25:43.754)
so if it’s listing in the water, if it’s not swimming flat, if it’s swimming at an angle, then perhaps it’s lungs impaired and it can’t inflate the one lung, so it’s you know, swimming with a list. cold stress. You know, similar to frostbite, but in manatees it’s cold stress and their their skin starts chafing. Obviously if they’re emaciated. manatees are very little body fat. All the fat is

Jason Elkins (25:54.529)
sure.

Jason Elkins (26:03.618)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (26:11.982)
the biggest deposits right behind their neck. So we’ll refer to them as a peanut head because you got the bulbous head and a real narrow neck now and then out toward the shoulder area. so we look for those types of things and report to the biologist and folks on my team and certainly all the other companies in town participate with the rescue team, and we’ll track the manatee sometimes over days.

find out, you know, where it’s going, is it improving? Is it, you know, is it doing better? Is it doing worse? And keep tabs on it for the biologists and the rescue team. Actually help with the rescues. And then we’re also fortunate that many of them do survive and when it’s time to be released, they get to help with the releases as well. You know, so it’s a you know it’s a celebration then. so there was one day last year they released seven manatees in one day.

Jason Elkins (27:03.51)
All right, okay.

Jason Elkins (27:07.63)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (27:11.12)
that it all come out of rehab. And sometimes they put trackers on and sometimes they don’t. So human factors, the boat strikes certainly an issue. a couple of years ago there were a fair number mortality was an unusual mortality event, a UME, on the east coast because eelgrass hadn’t flourished because of algae buildup and stuff in the Indian River.

Jason Elkins (27:11.203)
Wow.

Jason Elkins (27:37.774)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (27:39.074)
So the manatees were starving in the winter because they needed the warm water source at the springs, but now there was no food source where there was warm water. So they had to make a choice. And either either option could be fatal with you know prolonged time without food or prolonged time in cold water. So there were several hundred manatees that died that winter in one area. and some of that it does go back to human cause, not necessarily a cause, can’t put your finger on it.

But that algae buildup was perhaps fertilizer, perhaps water draw, less flow from the springs, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And you know, that’s that’s what happened. so not a good thing, but

Jason Elkins (28:18.754)
Right.

Can you

You know, I mentioned the term sea cow earlier. We didn’t really talk about it, I just kinda mentioned it in passing. But you know, one of the things with cows in the winter when they don’t have a lot of crop, you just take in a bunch of hay and you give them you just give them food and that’s kind of how they make it through the winter often in in many places. Can you even do that? Like you mentioned Indian River, there wasn’t food because of the algae. Is the is it even possible to go in and just feed them?

During a during an event like that or I mean, I don’t know. Is that a dumb question? Tell help me out here. Help me understand. okay. Ooh, interesting. Okay.

Mike Engiles (28:56.788)
Yeah Yeah n not not legally. so it is illegal to feed or provide fresh water to During that event the government stepped in and did institute a feeding program to try and limit some of the mortality, but manatees eat about a hundred pounds a day.

Jason Elkins (29:16.204)
Mm-hmm.

Well that’s I was thinking about that. Yeah, okay. That’s a lot of s yeah.

Mike Engiles (29:22.176)
So that that that’s a lot of romaine lettuce. so yeah, primarily yeah, because I mean that’s what would be available, a little bit more nutrition. so our local manatees where we did not have that event. so there’s been a group to called Safe Crusta River that has sucked up the tridle material off the bottom, all the muck.

Jason Elkins (29:26.892)
Is that what they is that what they would feed them?

Okay.

Yeah.

Mike Engiles (29:50.678)
and planted eel grasses and that’s helped quite a bit. we’ve seen manatees behavior evolve a little bit just over those six seven years because now there’s a winter food source that there hadn’t been previously. But the manatees would take about a maybe every three days, every five days, they would swim out to the Gulf, even though the Gulf was too cold and eat for a night or a day and then come back into the springs.

Jason Elkins (29:50.989)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (30:06.286)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (30:19.746)
And they would make that trek and that’s how they balance the the warm water that they needed to survive to thermal regulate versus the biological need for food.

Jason Elkins (30:20.011)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (30:31.822)
Okay, got it. You know, it it surprised me when you were talking about they don’t have a lot of fat. I was like, that’s counterintuitive. ’cause it looks like they’re literally all fat. I mean I’ve obviously they’ve got bones and and other parts inside, but all right, that’s

Mike Engiles (30:38.169)
Right.

Mike Engiles (30:42.315)
Yeah, that surprises most people.

Mike Engiles (30:48.664)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (30:52.696)
No, literally only three to five percent body fat.

Jason Elkins (30:56.342)
I I’m curious and I’d like to share with our listeners a little bit about here’s the story in my head. I’ve I’ve seen pictures of manatees in Chrysler and I imagine it being this kind of small protected area where boats don’t really go in and out unless they’re kind of going in slow to see the manatees, as opposed to maybe it’s called is it the intercoastal or

Like waterway along which I think is on the east side of Florida. Is it intercoastal on the east side?

Mike Engiles (31:25.528)
Yeah, there’s a in intercourseal down South Florida, Miami, Fort Lauderdale.

Jason Elkins (31:30.252)
Right. And I in my head I imagine more boat strikes and more problems there because people are using the intercoastal waterway to move back and forth as opposed to just focused on the manatees. Is that is that kinda close to correct or am I just totally missing the boat? Missing the boat. Anyway, go ahead.

Mike Engiles (31:46.336)
th there’s

i it’s a tough one. and we get into little battles periodically with some environmentalists. so Kr Citrus County has the third or fourth highest manatee mortality rate in the state. However, we’ve got the highest population as well of of manatees. Yeah, of so, you know

Jason Elkins (32:08.84)
Of of manatees or not people. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Mike Engiles (32:16.12)
Yeah, what’s the then you get into the cause. So FWC does catalog each manatee mortality and they do do necropsies on to determine a cause of death where possible. And it’s all published on the FWC website. you can look up every mort every manatee mortality by date where it was found and cause you know, through there. But our area has

Jason Elkins (32:38.925)
Well

Mike Engiles (32:41.602)
The only National Wildlife Refuge set aside for the protection of manatees, and that’s the Crystal River National Wildlife Refuge. And there’s a couple in addition to Three Sister Springs, that’s part of that un is a unit of the refuge, and the King Spring and Warden Key that are sanctuaries for the manatees. There are other winter sanctuaries that are set up that aren’t necessarily part of the refuge.

So depending on water temperatures and the need for the manatees, they become those swim zones as well in the winter. so you know, they have buoys on, they put a sleeve over top, that says, you know, swimming aloud or whatever, and when it’s too cold, they take that sleeve off. And you know, it’s a pencil buoy in the water and they can say, you know, you can’t take boats in there. So we and there’s some other canals that are set up as

Jason Elkins (33:18.922)
okay.

Jason Elkins (33:28.536)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (33:39.754)
No boating, no swimming zones, the sanctuaries during the winter. if you’re a resident there, you can take your boat in and out, but other people can’t just take their boats in there. And most of our area has a lot of slow and idle speed zones because of vanities. So when we leave our shop, we have about a mile, mile and a quarter run on the boat that is all slow speed zone all year. And some of them are seasonal and some of them are all year.

So this area has a lot of protections in place.

Jason Elkins (34:13.324)
I know that you have been involved in some of those organizations that you just mentioned, probably others that you haven’t mentioned. I think I saw something about you going to sp speak in front of Congress or something up in Washington or I don’t I don’t maybe we can discuss that. But I guess I guess hey you’ve got a moment here. Is there anything that you wish that was being done differently that you’re willing to put out there on a podcast that might stick around for a few years? Anything you wanna say? Okay.

Mike Engiles (34:39.116)
Sure. Well, I mean there’s different things. because of fishing and stuff elsewhere. there’s proposals floating around D C about that could potentially weaken the Marine Mammal Protection Act. it doesn’t need to be weakened. Be careful of what you’re doing and impacts elsewhere. you know

Animals are on it because they need to be protected. So even though manatees aren’t endangered anymore, officially they’re listed as threatened.

Jason Elkins (35:11.502)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (35:11.574)
and there’s some lawsuits popping around. The protect the protections allowed them to go from a population of about a thousand in the early nineteen seventies to pr eight to ten thousand now, maybe more. so in fifty years that population’s gone up five hundred percent or no, a thousand percent. so

Jason Elkins (35:25.261)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (35:32.354)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (35:34.574)
That’s because of protections and because of knowledge. So, you know, there’s a balance. And it supports you know, here at Crystal River, it’s a large part of the economy. I mean, you know, we’re I mean it’s trademarked or whatever, you know, the manatee capital of the world. The city seal has a manatee on it, the county seal has a manatee on it. you know, i yeah, so it really doesn’t matter. When I when I was up in D C we went around to a

Jason Elkins (35:57.967)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (36:04.438)
some members’ offices and you know when we talked and some of them the the environmentalists were a little bit cringy about ooh this could be a prickly conversation. It’s like if you talk to them and it it’s economics as well as environmental, there isn’t anybody on Congress that’s gonna say they’re against small businesses. You know, and and and people making a living.

Jason Elkins (36:28.354)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (36:32.036)
But it just needs to be done right. And I I think for the most part the industry here is trying to do it right. And just like with anything, you’ve got people across the spectrum. But by and large, s the companies are trying to do it right. And several of us, like twenty-five of us, have permits with US Fish and Wildlife, so we can actually we can when the swim areas are open, we can go into refuge waters. Not when they’re set up as a sanctuary.

Jason Elkins (37:00.118)
Okay. Right.

Mike Engiles (37:02.606)
But we can take guests into Three Sisters and see the manatees. And there’s some areas we can’t go, but you know, and that’s all part of the permit. And as a part of that process, there are things we need to do. We have to have a guide in the water. We’re not just turning guests loose saying, you know, there’s manatees over yonder, you know. Right. I mean, so you know, that that’s part of doing it right. we’re providing flotation devices.

Jason Elkins (37:21.58)
Meet us back in the boat in an hour. Yep. Okay. All right.

Mike Engiles (37:32.302)
we’re telling them to watch the manatee manors video. Don’t swim down and, you know, bother a manatee that’s on the bottom. If it’s on the bottom it’s eating or it’s sleeping, don’t bother it. Don’t chase Don’t separate a mom and a calf. And yeah, a lot of it it sounds really basic and it is really basic, but as you mentioned earlier, you know, in the excitement it’s something new. i sometimes that’s how the brain shuts off.

Jason Elkins (37:42.606)
Yep. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (37:56.003)
Yeah, it I get it. I get it. Yeah. And I think anybody listening to this has had moments where they get excited about something in their in their life and they, you know, the brain shuts off. The brain is pretty good at that, just shutting off when they gets overwhelmed. It’s yeah. I guess I don’t wanna oversimplify you know, and this this is not necessarily a place to come in and discuss a lot of politics. I don’t wanna oversimplify it, but honestly the question run through my head is

If you’re I don’t want I don’t know if I want to use the word lobbying, but if you’re lobbying Congress, I’m just or lobbying organizations, to me that indicates there’s a different side. Cause I’m like, well, who wouldn’t wanna keep the manatees safe? And what like why wouldn’t you wanna protect them and this and that? So but there’s always another side to it. It could be

farmers that are being limited on how they can do things in their businesses or maybe it’s transportation company I don’t know. What’s the can we touch on what the other side is? If there is one?

Mike Engiles (38:58.028)
I I

Yeah, there’s a whole spectrum, right? I mean, so you’ve got, you know, you know, zero to a hundred on it. I think some of it came out of fishing rights associated with buy catch and things like that, you know, in the Pacific where there’s competition with you know, international fisheries and commercial fishing. So I think some of it came out of that. Some of it because there’s a cost protection

and monitoring of different things. So I think some of it’s yeah, dollars as well. yeah, so you know the there’s different factors. And I guess where I’d call it you can’t treat everything the same. You know, with it you know it’s all marine mammals are in one act. And sometimes it it’s a little wording changes. so if you’re going from

Jason Elkins (39:33.729)
Okay, yeah.

Jason Elkins (39:45.57)
Yeah, right.

Jason Elkins (39:51.468)
Mm.

Mike Engiles (39:58.766)
the theory of you’re trying to enhance and grow the population and you tweak a couple of words and now it’s more just preserving the population. So then you’re kind of saying, Well, ten thousand’s enough, that’s all we need. or does it need that little bit stronger language that’s in there now that is trying to encourage growth and you know the population rebounding still.

Jason Elkins (40:25.346)
And you said it’s across all of the marine mammals, so if they say

Mike Engiles (40:28.194)
Yeah, Marine Mammal Protection Acts, all marine mammals. Dolphins, whales all of it.

Jason Elkins (40:31.246)
Okay. So is it is it as simple as saying if the act says we wanna increase numbers by ten percent, then is it ten percent of dolphins, ten percent of whales, ten percent of manatees or or is there some breakdown?

Mike Engiles (40:46.468)
Well it

Yeah, I don’t I don’t think it I don’t think it gets into a percentage, but the language to encourage rebound from extinction or be threatened status implies growing the population, if you’re trying to rebound it, versus just preserving the population that where we’re at now is good enough.

Jason Elkins (41:04.397)
Right.

Jason Elkins (41:08.706)
Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well thank you. I know we’re dread treading on Okay.

Mike Engiles (41:13.836)
So so yeah. Yeah and and I’m you know, I’m not a biologist, I’m not a lobbyist or you know, I’m not a you know, a lawyer, you know, delving into the details of it. But you know, there certainly are folks that do. You know, and and and lot and lots of organizations, you know, with you know, lawyers on both sides. so like for

Jason Elkins (41:21.998)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (41:28.012)
Yeah. All right. Very cool.

Jason Elkins (41:36.195)
Yep. But we can’t say you have a vested interest in helping support the Manatee population there in Crystal River and and and elsewhere. So that’s right, that’s fair fair statement to say. Okay. All right, Mike, let’s let’s get into the childhood traumas and all the the cool stuff that happened to you when you were young to figure out how the heck did you end up there. let’s start with

Mike Engiles (41:46.584)
Yeah, certainly. Yep.

Jason Elkins (42:01.91)
I usually ask how far back should we go, but I’m just gonna ask you, did you grow up in Crystal River? Did you are you a Florida b born and raised or where did you grow up?

Mike Engiles (42:10.798)
Well anybody who’s listened to me pretty much figures out where I’m from. So I I I grew up in Pennsylvania. so family’s so s so family’s originally from Philly. so I definitely like my O sounds. so it’s Crystal River Water Sports, W O D R Yeah, vr versus water. so yeah, I I definitely have a

Jason Elkins (42:18.478)
Okay. Yeah, that’s you know what, you’re right. I I now I I just made the connection. Okay.

Jason Elkins (42:27.118)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (42:32.254)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (42:37.582)
more Philadelphia accent than anything else. So I grew up in Pennsylvania. and vo always liked the water, you know, did swim team and stuff back in the day. from the environmental side of it, probably my first recollection, it was now it’d be middle school, junior high ish age, you know, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, somewhere in there. I went to a talk

by one of Cousteau’s sons and I can’t even remember which one, up at Lehigh University. And I can’t remember a word that was said because between addressing college students and with a French accent, it went way, way over my head. but I’ve always been interested in marine biology, you know, aquatic stuff. So that’s always been in, you know, the back of my mind from a

A hobby or things to do standpoint.

Jason Elkins (43:36.3)
Was that do you remember like?

I don’t know, guess the question is, do you remember the first time you heard about a manatee, saw a picture of a manatee, something on television, documentary? Do you do you remember that moment?

Mike Engiles (43:52.67)
No, I don’t not specifically with manatees. I know the first time I remember swimming with my daughter was second grade, I think. and my son and wife stayed in Orlando and played mini golf for the day and the two of us drove to Crystal River and swam with manatees. So that would have been ooh. she may not be happy. th that was thirty seven years ago.

Jason Elkins (43:55.694)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (44:12.654)
All right.

Jason Elkins (44:16.59)
We don’t We’re not ta yeah, don’t say anything that’s gonna out her, okay? But all right. So did you have siblings growing up or

Mike Engiles (44:23.61)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (44:28.152)
Yeah, I’ve three younger sisters.

Jason Elkins (44:30.83)
All right. And so you were the oldest in the family. Do you rem I mean you mentioned going to the presentation, the Cousteau presentation at Lehigh, but but before that, do you remember like what happened that other than maybe swimming classes, ’cause just ’cause you learn to swim doesn’t mean you are fascinated by marine biology. So do you remember a moment or somebody in your life that got you turned on to all this stuff happening in the in the sea?

Mike Engiles (44:59.092)
Not specifically. I had an an aunt, that was a s high school science teacher. yeah, so you know, that stuff and I I always like science in general. so, you know, Eagle Scout level, etc. It was like I wanna be a marine biologist, you know, and outdoor stuff. and then when I got into high school and college it’s like, well, I wanna be able to make money too, and marine biology’s not the way to do it.

Jason Elkins (45:06.039)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (45:15.915)
Okay. huh.

Mike Engiles (45:28.241)
so you the pr the pre

Jason Elkins (45:29.843)
so y so you chose tourism.

Jason Elkins (45:46.08)
Sounds great, but I also want to make money. So what was that shift? What it what was the idea that popped in your head? Well, maybe I should do this instead.

Mike Engiles (45:53.28)
well I I I always like science, so I think I had six or seven science courses in three years of high school. but we did jun we we did junior high, senior high, so it was only three years. It wasn’t I didn’t I wasn’t advanced. That that’s not the issue. and I so I I ended up starting off in computer science. That was the thing to do in the early eighties. but that wasn’t quite me. So I ended up

Jason Elkins (46:00.559)
Okay. Yep. Me too. Yeah, sounds I can relate.

Jason Elkins (46:05.87)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (46:15.266)
Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (46:21.326)
You sound like me. You sound like me, Mike. I did computer science for one semester before I figured out it wasn’t me, so go ahead.

Mike Engiles (46:22.706)
Downgro

Mike Engiles (46:29.774)
Yeah, I may have been slower. I think it took two. but but but somewhere in there. so I ended up switching to at that point it was quantitative business analysis, management science statistics, so certainly you know, that side of the brain, you know, the the quantitative side of the brain versus the creative side. And ended up doing that. the economy wasn’t great when I finished my undergrad. So

Jason Elkins (46:48.578)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (46:59.596)
I did what everybody should do and go to grad school to avoid the real world for another year or so. And

Jason Elkins (47:03.656)
Yeah, okay. And and did you continue the same type of stuff? what did you do in grad s ra grad school?

Mike Engiles (47:08.504)
Y yeah, I did. So, yeah, what comes around bites you a little bit. so I got a job in the D C area, between my courses and my thesis and ended up moving to the D C area and doing computer programming for a lot of Department of Defense entities. you know, for contractors there. And then kinda migrated back to the quantitative side.

Jason Elkins (47:28.855)
Okay.

Mike Engiles (47:35.288)
by doing simulation and process analysis. So delving into the numbers, what’s the cause of a problem, and then coming up with solutions to it as opposed to just the programming solution. So I kind of went toward the the functional end of things, the you know the front end of it versus just implementing a solution. So I I did that for lots of years.

Jason Elkins (47:45.55)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (47:55.705)
So I I simpli I simplify that down to you’re an analyst for the defense department. Did you say defense? Okay, a government analyst. All right, okay. Did you but did you enjoy it at the time? Do you look back and have fond memories of that?

Mike Engiles (48:01.54)
yeah, a and other entities, yeah. It it was a contractor, but y yeah.

yeah. yeah, I really enjoyed it. And yeah, and I continued to. the team I worked with, the folks I worked with, they were all great, clients were great. but as I got a little bit more senior, I ended up having to write proposals and it was more the business development side versus the the problem solving side of it and the interaction with people. So I

Jason Elkins (48:29.357)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (48:36.876)
So that’s what formed the transition is I wanted to do something that was a little bit more people oriented.

Jason Elkins (48:43.896)
Were you when you were doing cause I heard you say problem solving, figuring out analyzing the numbers, figuring out solutions, problem solving? I that sounds a lot well, I guess what I’m asking, were you able to apply that to environmental things, like things we’re discussing now and we’re talking about protections of you know, marine mammal protection? Was there anything at all science or marine biology? No connection whatsoever. Okay, all right. I just wanted to ask that before we move on.

Mike Engiles (49:03.424)
No.

Mike Engiles (49:10.774)
No. but then I mean I always wanted to scuba dive. I never had the money when I was younger, so I finally learned to dive. kids were young at the time, like real young. And you know, did a couple you know, some dives in Virginia or off the North Carolina coast, weekends. and then when daughter was thirteen fourteen I guess, she joined the the venturing program of scouts.

Jason Elkins (49:40.558)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (49:40.842)
and the unit was involved was scuba diving. so and she got certified and then like a year later my son got certified. So, with the two kids and my wife, three out of four gave us a quorum. So then we were we were able to do dive trips and

Jason Elkins (49:44.371)
cool.

Jason Elkins (49:53.422)
Uh-huh.

Did your wife just I we don’t need to go too much into her what she likes and what she doesn’t like, but did she she just didn’t want to go diving, just was not her thing?

Mike Engiles (50:07.57)
she really doesn’t swim and she’s probably in the background and I’ll have something through I’ll I’ll have something thrown at me coming in from the side. she’s not a swimmer, so she was fine with it. She was fine with umbrella drinks, hammocks, palm trees, and a book. Yeah. Yeah, we we were hoping she’d be our gear sherpa, but that never panned out.

Jason Elkins (50:11.88)
She she’s gonna listen to this, so be careful.

Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:24.736)
I I get it. I get it. It’s not for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Well that works quite that works fine. Okay. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:35.886)
If it it sounds like it was a pretty good match because if she was into camping in the mountains, that would have been a problem. All right. So you so your girls were diving, you were diving, you were still you were okay, son and daughter, and you were still an analyst working contract jobs for the government.

Mike Engiles (50:43.886)
Yeah, no.

Mike Engiles (50:50.124)
Yes, son and daughter, one of each. Yep.

Mike Engiles (50:58.35)
But with the scouts we did we took a group of scouts to Bonaire for a week of diving. We w we went to Roatan, we went to Mexico with groups and you know and weekend dive trips, you know, just you know, local quarries and stuff like that. So through scouts they got to dive. and o on a scouting vein, friend of mine actually wrote the scuba mural badge back in the day.

Jason Elkins (51:03.839)
cool. Wow. Okay.

Jason Elkins (51:14.456)
Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (51:19.542)
Mm-hmm. Well, that’s super cool. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (51:28.106)
Some somewhere on my computer I probably have the PDF that he sent me before it was even published, you know, of the original scuba murpage. And then he you know, Dr. Talon, he actually helped organize the Boy Scout Jamboree, the scuba function there. So in two thousand five my daughter and I were on staff at the Scout Jamboree on Scuba Staff. and then in twenty ten

Jason Elkins (51:28.201)
Jason Elkins (51:33.134)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (51:47.447)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (51:57.712)
my son, my daughter, and I were all on the scuba staff. So that introduced us to introducing people to scuba and the aquatic world. So I think the one year it was something like eighteen thousand youth did it discover scuba in ten days. W we had four we had four po yep, at the

Jason Elkins (52:01.135)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (52:16.934)
wow. At at one o at one event? I I’m trying to get my head around this. Okay.

Mike Engiles (52:23.598)
Well the the National Jamboree at that point was about forty thousand attendees. Okay. So the scuba staff was near three hundred people.

Jason Elkins (52:28.288)
I had no idea. Okay.

Jason Elkins (52:34.082)
Wow. Okay. All right.

Mike Engiles (52:34.884)
J just on scuba and we had four they’re shallow pools, only four feet deep. But we had four good size pools that we had teams and every twenty minutes we were putting another we had what six or eight instructors in a pool with five each. We were putting another hundred and twenty kids in the water every twenty minutes.

Jason Elkins (52:59.32)
So w the bit I know about kind of the you said it was the Discover scuba is what they they were doing, right? Yeah, okay okay. And you were at that point were you and your son and your daughter when you say we were s I think you use the term staffing it or working it, were you like dive masters at that point or did or what was what did what did that look like? I’m just curious how how obviously you were very involved. I’m just curious if you were, you know.

Mike Engiles (53:03.608)
Yeah. Yeah, discover Scuba Light.

Mike Engiles (53:28.498)
So yeah, it’s the first time no. N didn’t have a pro card at all. my daughter got her dive master or I got mine and my daughter got hers. she was just eighteen. And I guess twenty ten she was probably an instructor. yeah, she was. By the time the twenty ten Jamboree, yeah, she would have been an instructor.

Jason Elkins (53:29.597)
you don’t.

Jason Elkins (53:48.938)
Okay. Wow.

Mike Engiles (53:56.866)
And then my son eventually got his instructor card, you know, cert as well. I didn’t do it till after we moved to Florida and I had the business. And I got it more so from a standards and you know and just owning the company standpoint than the actual you know, wanting to jump in and teach. You know, I’ll let others do the teaching. But I at least have the training and I know what the standards are and how things should be done.

Jason Elkins (54:02.318)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (54:06.23)
Okay. Yeah, I I get that.

Jason Elkins (54:16.78)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (54:27.318)
And that makes sense. I think any business owner that owns a a a let’s just say a tourism company or an activity company that that does things that are potentially dangerous. You know, you’ve got there’s there’s real risks involved and stuff like that. I think that the owner should be understanding of what that looks like. So when they go hire d dive instructors, they they have some kind of idea of what the expectations are and and safety. Yeah, I get I get that. Okay, so I wanna

Mike Engiles (54:41.112)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (54:56.866)
I wanna understand how you moved from working as a contractor in Washington to to Florida and doing what you’re doing. So what are the what are the like when was the moment you decided, okay, I’m done with this analysis contracting stuff and I’m gonna go do something different? And what was that that you envisioned doing when you were ready to go?

Mike Engiles (55:18.188)
So I I told Sandy, you know, the wife that you know, eventually I’m I’m done yeah.

Jason Elkins (55:24.428)
The wife the wife, she’s gonna listen to this. I’m just saying, Mike. Okay, all right, so good. I I’m twice divorced, so I’m really sensitive. Go ahead. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (55:28.3)
W w we’ve been married forty one years or something. so so there’s

So th there’s worse terms that can probably be used at times. by her anyway. And and I wanted to do something was more people oriented. So momentarily the kids were out of the house. so we were empty nesters.

Jason Elkins (55:53.058)
Wait, moment momentarily like they were on spring break or they were they had like grown up and moved out?

Mike Engiles (55:57.28)
No, look. We we thought we had launched. little did I know we had a failure to launch. but we invite

Jason Elkins (56:01.507)
No, I I get it. Okay, let’s keep going. All right. So so at at one point the kids had moved out of the house. I get that. Okay.

Mike Engiles (56:11.468)
I so I started looking around for something that was gonna be more people oriented, you know, preferably near the water. So, you know, scuba, snorkeling, you know, tourism, gift shop, maybe a hotel, you know, whatever. and I’d started poking around.

But it was tough to leave the job and the paycheck, you know, up in DC. And then things, you know, business wise weren’t going great and there were gonna be cutbacks and you know, eventually I got the call saying, gonna need to lay you off. I’m like, Okay, what date? And I mean the

I think I got that call like early August and by the middle of the month I was coming down to Florida to visit businesses. So you know it it it i yeah, it you know, it’s like, okay, what do I wanna do versus what am I doing? so here we are.

Jason Elkins (57:10.338)
Mike, I gotta I gotta ask you this before we go any f yeah, I gotta ask this before we go any further because I think what you said, you know, you’re you’re thinking I would like to do something more people based, along the coast, maybe tourism diving. There’s an awful lot of people that might be listening to this right now that are s working as analysts in Washington, thinking, Yep, yep, I I think about that every day.

But some of them will never do it because they don’t get laid off. Do you think that if that layoff had not come, would it have number one been harder? Would you have actually taken the leap or or would you have just kept thinking about it? But then when they said, Okay, you gotta go, was that like I don’t know. You tell me. I don’t know if you understand what I’m trying to get at.

Mike Engiles (57:59.49)
Yeah, I I it’s a hypothetical, so I don’t know what I I would have done for sure. it was you know, the D C area offers a lot, a lot to do, but it’s a rat race, so you know, it it is what it is. but obviously the pay and the benefits and all were, you know, really good.

Jason Elkins (58:04.044)
Yeah, I I know. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (58:16.206)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (58:24.675)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (58:25.048)
I’m not making near as much money as a business owner as I used to make. so, you know, it was hard to pull the plug, or would have been hard to pull the plug had it solely been just for choice. I mean, ’cause we packed up and moved. you know, Sandy’s from northern Pennsylvania. She’s from a rural area. So she wanted to go to something, you know, she wanted something less populated and, you know, a little bit more low key than, you know, the DC metro area.

Jason Elkins (58:40.514)
I get it, yeah.

Mike Engiles (58:54.91)
so yeah, that was a benefit for her as well. But you know, it it’s tough to pull the plug and I’ve had peers sit

Jason Elkins (58:54.989)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (59:02.082)
Because here’s where yeah, because here’s where I’m going here’s the st what’s going through my head is I’ve got this probably pretty, you know, secure, a lot of security around, well, I don’t here’s the thing. I’ve got this job, I’m making good money, and I go to my wife and say, Hey, I wanna quit and move to Florida and open a dive shop or or whatever, right? And I’m thinking there might be some resistance there.

Just in some cases, where if I go to her and say, you know how I’ve been dreaming about this thing, well, I just got my pink slip, so I I guess we gotta go. It’s probably a little easier like to approach her. And I’m not talking about Sandy, I’m just talking about just relationships in general can be that way. And you’re smiling for anybody that’s listening to this, can’t see it on your face.

Mike Engiles (59:48.846)
Yeah. I I I I really can’t remember. I do know I we were in a car together when I got the call. my supervisor’s name was Mike at the time. And he’s like, you know, I need to talk, you know, where are you? I said, I’m in the car. I think we’re up in New Jersey. And he said, well, you know we can talk Monday or whatever and I’m like, That’s okay, we can talk now. He’s like, Well

Jason Elkins (59:56.247)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (59:59.791)
Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (01:00:13.358)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:00:14.19)
Well you know, I’d rather, you know, y we wait. And it’s like, no, we’re good. I said, What’s up? And you know so Yeah, I mean I every year the company would go through cost cutting at the end of the fiscal year and look at, you know, where were numbers, where was growth? At that point because I was doing business development

Jason Elkins (01:00:21.154)
Did you have any clue? Did you like if looking back, do you think you kinda knew some the writing was on the wall?

Mike Engiles (01:00:39.951)
my hours weren’t billable. You know, so I was all overhead hours. So that meant, you know, I I was now a cost center versus a profit center. yeah, so and I had already gone to HR and said, hey, this is my title, this is my start date. If something happened, what would be compensation? Because you it was a big enough company it was a big enough company, I knew it was gonna be structured.

Jason Elkins (01:00:43.502)
Okay. Okay. All right.

Jason Elkins (01:00:49.39)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:01:02.531)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:01:06.638)
And they said, okay, well if you’re laid off, you would get this much severance and this much for insurance and stuff like that. So I already knew what would be coming on the backside from HR.

Jason Elkins (01:01:17.048)
Did Sandy did Sandy know you were having these conversations with HR? Well now she does. Okay. So anyway, so he called you. So Mike called you.

Mike Engiles (01:01:21.626)
Pro probably I don’t I don’t I mean I Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I mean it’s it it it wouldn’t it wasn’t a secret, it wasn’t you know anything like that. Did I explicitly say I don’t know, that was fourteen years ago. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:01:32.728)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:01:37.295)
Uh-huh, sure. You’re play right, okay. Pl I’ll play along with you. So Mike called and at the end of that call, and you you told Sandy what was on the call, did you both smile? Was it a mixed was were you smiling? She was crying, was she smiling, you were crying? I’m just curious. Do you remember that? Yeah. All right.

Mike Engiles (01:01:54.978)
No, I don’t I don’t think neither one of us were that emotional, either way. I mean I I know I asked him, I said, Well I it may have been June. It’s like, Well what’s the effective date? He said, Well it would be two weeks. I said, Well that’s the middle of July. Can you make it Monday, August second or third or whatever it is? He’s like, Why? I said, Because then my August insurance is already paid for. And then th that that was on the first call. So, you know

Jason Elkins (01:02:18.262)
Yeah, you’re sm so you’d already thought this out. I know, that’s what I was thinking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It kinda sounded like you’d already thought it out, Mike. I’m just saying. Uh-huh.

Mike Engiles (01:02:23.14)
Go back to the analytical brain of you you know, what what’s the next step? You know, what’s the math behind things? So

Mike Engiles (01:02:34.2)
Yeah. Well i I mean we we had talked about it, so and out of where I started, you know, poking around, you know, where were options and things like that. I mean, I looked at some places offshore. I talked to a friend who had a dive south in Mexico. I had looked at a couple in Hawaii, you know, so it you know, I wasn’t fixated on Florida. It it was more coastal and water based.

Jason Elkins (01:02:53.048)
So was it

Okay.

Okay. So it sounded like kinda what you’re talking about, you know, was kind of dive shop, gift shop, maybe a small lodge, hotel type of thing. And so that’s basically what you’re looking at in just a variety of different areas. All right. Was the Crystal River oper was and Crystal Rivers the first one you pulled the trigger on?

Mike Engiles (01:03:21.262)
Well it’s the only one we pulled the trigger on.

Jason Elkins (01:03:23.756)
Well, I shouldn’t say the first ’cause you’re still there. Yeah. Was it the one you pulled the trigger on, I guess?

Mike Engiles (01:03:26.766)
Yeah. Yeah, so I looked at probably six or seven businesses in Florida. So I flew down, I met with an attorney, whom I happen to know through Scouts as well. he was a business attorney down here in Lakeland. And the Crystal River one popped up at the last minute. Like the trip was already planned. And so I met with them and then I went and checked out

some places in Venice, Florida, a few in the Keys, a couple in South Florida. So I kind of did a little tour of Florida looking at dive shops that were potentially for sale. And at that point Crystal River wasn’t even on the radar. It popped up at the last minute. And then started digging into it and one of the appeals is a lot of water sports businesses are summer.

You know, they’re Memorial Day to Labor Day in the US. and you know, when I talked to the one in Venice, they said, yeah, eighty percent of our revenue is Memorial Day to Labor Day. And I’m like, god, when do you take it over? Yeah, because you take it over out of season, you’ve got no cash flow for months, and it’s like, Did I screw this up? Or do you take it over ye you have the opportunity to screw it up?

Jason Elkins (01:04:42.156)
Yep. Take it over at the beginning of season, you’re overwhelmed and like you you break everything. So so then that’s your last season.

Mike Engiles (01:04:52.074)
so what’s at Crusader River apart a little bit is it’s it’s bimodal, there’s two peaks. So the manatee tourism is big when it’s cold when kids are out of school. So Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring break season. And then we hit a lull, which you know we’re in now, and then in the summer you can snorkel in the Gulf of Mexico for scallops.

So we call that an underwater Easter egg hunt. So they’re base gallops. They’re yeah we if they’re under two inches we won’t keep so they’re, you know, yay big at best. And the meat early in the years Yep.

Jason Elkins (01:05:32.888)
So yay so yay yay big, you said a cup just because some people aren’t looking at the screen right now, but so a coup a couple inches across?

Mike Engiles (01:05:41.346)
At a minimum two inches across. And the meat is like the size of the last digit of your pinky early in the season or the size of your thumb late in the season. So they’re not the r scallops you would get in a restaurant. They’re base scallops. obviously sweet. Scallops, you know, shell gas station sign. At every crook is a blue eye. So there’s a

Jason Elkins (01:05:43.543)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:05:47.16)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:05:50.699)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:05:54.84)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:06:00.728)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:06:05.922)
So they have like twenty some pair of blue eyes, so you look for the blue eyes. So it’s it’s like an underwater Easter egg hunt. They’re on the bottom. You snorkel, you swim down, you get It’s not like clamming up in the northeast or whatever where you dig your heel in the sand in the tidal area. No, you’re actually in the water snorkeling.

Jason Elkins (01:06:06.23)
No.

Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:06:24.408)
So what does that look like? Does that like people just sign up to I know like when I’ve gone like on a deep sea fishing boat it they call it like a party boat where just you book a couple of spots, you go out and you go fishing. Is it kinda like that where people just book in and you take out to the area and then they get out and swim around and look for scallops or w what does that look like?

Mike Engiles (01:06:43.084)
some places do do it more party boat. for the most part it’s small boats because of the limits. but we do all private. And that way it’s not like, they got scalps, I didn’t, I want shallow water, they want deep water, you know. So we only do private boats just to simplify the guest experience. And we put a guide in the water with them. So it’s very s the guide typically gets half of whatever the boat catches for the day.

Jason Elkins (01:06:59.79)
Okay. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:07:13.27)
okay.

Mike Engiles (01:07:13.974)
So there could be six other people on the boat and the guide’ll typically get as many as the other six people. a a it’s po yeah. And part of that is just, you know, you’re used to doing it, you know what to look for, you you know, your eyes get tuned a little bit, you know s yeah, so you and and it’s a little bit you know, how you know, you can be a little bit more systematic.

Jason Elkins (01:07:20.372)
Or yeah, or or more as an individual basis. Yeah, okay. All right.

Jason Elkins (01:07:32.968)
I see what you’re saying. Okay, I see what you’re saying. Yeah, okay.

Mike Engiles (01:07:41.752)
And some people they’re out on the boat in the Gulf of Mexico. there’s some days the most days the water is gin clear, crystal clear water. It’s eighty eight, ninety degrees. so there’s a worse way to spend an afternoon for sure. even if you don’t find a scallop.

Jason Elkins (01:07:51.149)
Well.

Jason Elkins (01:08:00.579)
I’m I’m curious because you said the water’s crystal clear. And I think of the Gulf of Mexico. I’ve seen some kind of the estuaries, areas around the coast of western Florida that are quite clear. but then I think of the Gulf as being a little bit muddy. And that’s just in my own head. But is it because of the Crystal River and all the springs that are flowing out into that area? Is that why it’s so clear?

Mike Engiles (01:08:18.521)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:08:25.472)
No, well this area yeah, the t underwater topography’s a little different. It’s very shallow and it’s a very gradual slope. So in this area the gulf only drops about a foot per mile. So you’ve got to go a long way out to get deep water. So we don’t have waves. I mean we’ll get some chop from wind, but we really don’t have wave action. And scallops grow on grass beds. So you’ve got

Jason Elkins (01:08:39.279)
okay.

Okay.

Mike Engiles (01:08:53.366)
Lots of eelgrass, turtle grass out there. and that filters the water in and keeps the sediment down as well. So

Jason Elkins (01:08:59.682)
Got it. Sure. Sure. Did you did you say these are all snorkeling or diving? The scallop trups?

Mike Engiles (01:09:05.774)
You may s you may dive, but you’re in shallow water. You’re generally four to eight feet of water. So you can swim along the surface, spot a scallop, duck dive down, grab it, put it in a mesh bag and continue on.

Jason Elkins (01:09:18.798)
Okay. So are there I I some places that I’ve had experience like in Belize, for example, which is where I’ve had really all of my diving experience and a lot of snorkeling, and it was there were strict regulations about you couldn’t take things under s like if you were scuba diving, you couldn’t harvest anything as far as I recall. I’m not even sure you could spear fish. but is do they have rules like that in Florida? D I mean

Mike Engiles (01:09:44.878)
Yeah. So FWC, Florida Wildlife Commission, has, you know, rules for, you know, all the various catch limits and scallops have their rules. so there’s no rule on the size of scallop. Reality is if it’s too small, it’s a lot of work to shuck it to find like a tiny piece of meat. some people get fixated on numbers and things, but at any rate, so there’s no limit on size.

Jason Elkins (01:10:04.066)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:10:14.244)
There is a catch limit. So right now the catch limit is two gallons in the shell per person, or a total of ten gallons for the boat. So that gets back to the party boat.

Jason Elkins (01:10:21.57)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:10:25.614)
I see why the party boats don’t work sound so well. ‘Cause it’s like, well, okay, we’re done. We we’ve and you’ve got three people with a full bucket, fourteen with with a handful in the butt of the bucket. All right. Yeah, that doesn’t sound good. I can yeah, that makes sense.

Mike Engiles (01:10:34.104)
With nothing. Yeah.

And and and then because it’s open water, then it’s a coast guard inspection, some other things come into play as well. but that’s the real limit is just two gallons per person, ten gallons per boat. In some of the areas they’ve staggered that limit, so it’s a little bit less early in the season because the scalps will almost double in size over the course of the season. So you’re pulling out a whole lot more if you get the limit in July.

Jason Elkins (01:10:43.671)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:11:07.95)
You’re pulling out nearly twice as many as if you got the limit in September.

Jason Elkins (01:11:12.27)
Okay, gotcha. So what percentage of your summer cause we talked about by I think you s by what was the word you used for two seasons, two peaks? Bipodal, bi bimodal. I almost said I was thinking bipolar, but that’s not the word I’m looking for. I say that as a joke. But the question I’m I’m asking is

Mike Engiles (01:11:19.734)
by bi modal. Bym yeah, sorry.

Well i it could be.

Jason Elkins (01:11:41.1)
What percentage of your summer business is scalloping or are there other activities as well that you offer?

Mike Engiles (01:11:47.588)
So we’re we certainly we do manatee tours all year round. We do we do scallop charters. We also do guided scuba dives and dive training. So we’ll take people to the local springs. So Rainbow River’s a spring fed river, it’s crystal clear. it’s all freshwater fish and turtles. So I think we have three groups going out there this weekend, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Jason Elkins (01:11:51.842)
You do? Okay. I’m happy I asked.

Mike Engiles (01:12:13.978)
And you know, other springs in the area, so there’s the opportunity for scuba diving and dive training. scallop season is a a big push for the whole area, whether you’re doing a charter or just another business. So I have a boat ramp. So that first set that first Saturday, which I think is the second of July this year, I don’t know, whatever date it is, I’ll have 125 boats go out of the boat ramp.

Jason Elkins (01:12:31.639)
okay.

Mike Engiles (01:12:42.22)
So just a hundred and twenty five people paying launch fees, buying ice, buying sodas, they forgot a mask, a die flag, sunscreen, you know, whatever. You know, it it’s a big even if I’m not running a scallop charter, it’s still a big plus, you know, to the bottom line.

Jason Elkins (01:12:53.998)
I see.

Jason Elkins (01:13:00.27)
Got it. Got it. All right. That’s that’s pretty cool. So let’s go back to you were looking at this, you were looking at a bunch of businesses in Florida. You saw this one, it was bimodal. See, I got the word right. It had a bimodal season. And so yeah, so walk us through that. You it sounds like you spoke with lawyers, you started getting things set up. What should people know about what that process looked like?

Mike Engiles (01:13:07.577)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:13:17.39)
So

Mike Engiles (01:13:22.486)
well, what it should look like and what I did could be two different things. but

Jason Elkins (01:13:25.418)
well, actually that’s the value that you’re bringing. What are the mistakes you made? because someone listening to this wants to go do something similar.

Mike Engiles (01:13:31.874)
So, you know, I did that first trip, got the basics from the businesses, and then Sandy and I came down and what we did in the different areas was we met with a real estate agent and started talking about housing because the reality was we were gonna have the business investment but we were gonna have to relocate and buy a house eventually too.

Jason Elkins (01:13:54.926)
Right. Yep.

Mike Engiles (01:13:55.85)
So we did that just to get a feel for the different areas and what housing options were. so it was so we we came to Chris River, we went to I I forget if we went to Venice or not. I may have ruled that out by the time she got involved. She’s shaking her head no. she d she didn’t go to Venice. We we we went to the Keys, and we went to South Florida. so you know, we did it as a you know, okay, what’s

Jason Elkins (01:14:14.811)
Ha ha ha.

Mike Engiles (01:14:25.58)
our net net as far as buying a house and buying a business. So it was actually a really cheap business opportunity near Fort Lauderdale. But the housing was three times as high. So so you know we did that. So we eventually she liked this area because it is more rural and and you know and the business had appeal. the couple that owned it were great. so we came up with a

Jason Elkins (01:14:28.002)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:14:55.17)
an intent to purchase and I forget if I had even signed a non disclosure with them or not at that point. and started, yeah, working through the details. Then my son and I came down in I’ll say November time frame and did a hard inventory because everything was paper based. Like they you know, they had stuff.

Jason Elkins (01:15:19.788)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:15:21.294)
But it you know, it was all on paper. There was no digital inventory to say, we have this many shirts and this many plush and you know, X dollars in wetsuits, etc. So

Jason Elkins (01:15:28.546)
Yep, yep.

Jason Elkins (01:15:32.588)
And you’re the analyst. You’re the analyst, w computer analyst, systems analyst walking into this trying to get your head around it.

Mike Engiles (01:15:39.064)
Yeah, so so John and I came down and did an inventory of all of the merchandise that was for sale. And it was something like fifteen hundred skews, sixteen hundred skews, ’cause i it it was fishing hooks to five foot plush manatees. part of that got a little punchy and this is where, you know, Mike being

Jason Elkins (01:15:52.119)
Wow, yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:16:04.664)
weird or having a weird sense of humor comes into play. it trickled to my son. So I was counting and describing things and he’s typing in a spreadsheet and I review it later and I see club comma baby seal.

So i it was a wooden club for people that go shark fishing so they can knock out the shark. So he puts it in as baby seal club. and and then there was a metal

Jason Elkins (01:16:24.974)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:16:28.968)
yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:16:35.982)
It’s good thing you didn’t it’s a good thing you didn’t have a website that he was updating inventory on the website. That could have been really bad for business.

Mike Engiles (01:16:40.822)
Yeah, yeah, n yeah, no d no doubt. And then there was a a metal lobster that was probably two and a half feet long. And he goes to pick it up to see if there’s a skew on the bottom or a price or something on her manufacture. And next thing I when I look at the inventory it’s in there is Big A lobster.

Jason Elkins (01:17:06.214)
Big ass lobster. bond bonding moments with your son.

Mike Engiles (01:17:08.186)
So any rate, so we did that. Yeah. so we ended up we we ended up structuring a deal with a a bunch of different schedules. so a schedule for the merchandise, you know what was the inventory, a schedule for the assets, the wetsuits, the boats the boat motors and things like that, the intellectual properties, so like the phone number, the the marketing, the website, you know, the licenses that

Jason Elkins (01:17:33.632)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:17:38.308)
Well the government need to provide if you’re buying a business they essentially convey I mean the government ha you know, has the final say you don’t own the license, but they seldom, you know, get in the way of a sale. You know, working it you know, with the landlord in the lease and things like that. so I think we had like schedules A through I or something in the contract. Yeah, ’cause it there were

Jason Elkins (01:17:44.365)
Yeah. Yep.

Mike Engiles (01:18:06.75)
seven or eight different URLs and websites and social media accounts and passwords and you know all

Jason Elkins (01:18:12.898)
A lot of a lot of stuff. So from that was in November. When was your first day like taking the keys and showing up at the shop and meeting all your new people? Well, you probably met some people before, but go ahead. Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:18:19.7)
so we went well during one of the vi during the visits we essentially just had a little pizza get together with the existing staff and the former owners, you know, introduced us and said we were you know we were gonna be taking over, you know, would like everybody to stay, but you know to try and smooth that transition so I didn’t come in with, you know, zero staff.

Jason Elkins (01:18:32.046)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:18:46.56)
And I I was coming in right at the beginning of season. so we went to closing on the sixth or seventh of January and they had blocked the calendar out for that that day and the next day. But they continued to market and this is where you know they were they were great. They are great. they had essentially a full calendar and trip scheduled from like the eighth on forward.

Jason Elkins (01:18:46.584)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:19:14.594)
So I I had the one day to get the financial stuff squared away for a credit card reader to go to the right bank and all that good stuff. but there was already stuff on the calendar, you know, when we walked in. And you know, and the crew was scheduled and things like that. And all the crew stayed on. I mean, you know, some drifted away over time, but there wasn’t like a a mass exodus that you know, all of a sudden I I had a business and nobody to execute.

Jason Elkins (01:19:26.498)
Nice.

Mike Engiles (01:19:44.15)
So, you know, staff was great, but Ken and Julie were great on that transition as well ’cause they could have shut down marketing once they knew they were selling. but but they ran you know Facebook ads, Google ads or whatever right up until like the weekend before closing.

Jason Elkins (01:19:52.941)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:20:02.434)
I won’t I won’t ask sometimes when somebody sells a business it’s it’s based on, you know, a little bit of revenue sharing or they want to make sure that the person that takes it over is successful so the note gets paid off. But but we don’t need to go into that. I don’t know if what was going on there, but yeah, okay. Cool. Sounds like you found a good spot a good situation.

Mike Engiles (01:20:16.76)
No, we w we didn’t do any of that. yeah, so essentially it was a a cat it it was a cash sale, if you will. and so there wasn’t that, but they continue I just had breakfast with them a couple of months ago. they’re still in the area. They they wanted to retire, and wanted to go travel and do some other things. So you know, they didn’t dislike the business, but they were probably a little burnt out.

Jason Elkins (01:20:26.156)
Yeah. All right. Very, very cool.

Jason Elkins (01:20:37.345)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:20:47.246)
Well yeah, it can it can get that way. Washing washing wetsuits can burn you out. Speaking of speaking of that.

Mike Engiles (01:20:53.109)
yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:20:57.058)
So you rent you do wetsuit rentals or you include them when people go snorkeling with the manatees and stuff like that? H

Mike Engiles (01:21:03.374)
Yeah. The the springs are always seventy two degrees, twenty two Celsius.

Jason Elkins (01:21:08.322)
How do you how do you keep people from peeing in the websuits in the wetsuits? That’s something well, I’m not maybe we shouldn’t have even mentioned that, but I know that was a constant like yeah, it’s it just it’s a thing.

Mike Engiles (01:21:11.714)
You don’t we wash them in bleach.

Mike Engiles (01:21:21.134)
Y right. Yeah, as they say with divers, there are those that pee in and those that lie about it. The same holds for snorkelers.

Jason Elkins (01:21:27.534)
I and I actually my diving experience I I just you know, I got I went through the instruction process before we moved to Belize and and then in Belize I had my own wetsuit and after just probably after just a few dives, I told myself I’m never gonna rent a wet a wetsuit because I know what I do in my wetsuit. But it warms you up if you’re cold.

Mike Engiles (01:21:52.301)
Yeah, it

It it it it well and it i it’s funny generally with ladies, but you know, it could be anybody. You know, you’ll see them and they’re like shivering, you know, or you know, they’re they’re getting cold and all of a sudden they just like and it’s like I know what you just did. Yeah Y you know it Yeah, it is what it is.

Jason Elkins (01:21:57.358)
Anyway.

Jason Elkins (01:22:11.054)
They relax. You can see them

Jason Elkins (01:22:23.562)
And the only people that know what we’re talking about right now are people that have been in a wet scissor. Everybody else like, well, that’s weird. You guys are weird. So anyway, we should we should move on from that. So which is why I wanted to have this conversation. So thanks for thanks for bearing with me. so how long what year was that that you actually took the keys and started working?

Mike Engiles (01:22:31.416)
Well, th th that was probably obvious early on talking to me, but

Mike Engiles (01:22:47.172)
Twenty fourteen. So we’re in our thirteenth year. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:22:49.118)
twenty fourteen. Okay, so twelve, thirteen years. Wow. All right. Very cool. What is I mean, obviously, you know, things have changed, but other than the mermaid course, what other big changes do we want to touch on before we wrap up?

Mike Engiles (01:23:07.266)
No that I mean it you know, with just a variety of things, you know, we obviously we instituted various IT processes. you know, and you know, digital inventory and reservations, you know, tourism’s evolved a lot in twelve years. I mean, right now I think eighty percent of our bookings are online. You know, five well, pre COVID, no one wanted to put a credit card in a computer.

Jason Elkins (01:23:16.065)
huh, I’m sure, yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:23:32.908)
And now people are more comfortable typing it in a computer than telling you the number over the phone. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:23:36.076)
And now people don’t want to talk to anybody. Yeah, they don’t want to if I don’t have to talk to anybody, yeah, that’s best. Yeah, okay. Uh-huh.

Mike Engiles (01:23:42.018)
Yeah, and you know, and you know, tourism evolves. yeah, we started doing private tours dur you know, coming out of COVID, which for Florida was like May, June. you know, it was early in that process. And we figured well that’s the way people can go out, they’re outside, they’re on the water, they’re just with family or people they know. So, you know, it kinda limits exposure, hits some of the check boxes, as far as covet protocols and

Jason Elkins (01:24:11.32)
They were wearing they were wearing a mask when they were snorkeling. Anyway.

Mike Engiles (01:24:13.816)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, except it didn’t cover your mouth, but that’s a whole separate issue. but it I checked with Divers Alert Network on what to do from a sanitizing gear standpoint, etcetera. and we were actually there anyway, ’cause it was like soak it in bleach. Okay, we’d do that already. Yeah. So yeah the no issues there. but that’s continued to be popular that

Jason Elkins (01:24:32.91)
Yeah. Well we’ve been doing that anyway.

Mike Engiles (01:24:41.426)
people they just they like having a private experience so they’ve got their captain, they’ve got their guide, and they can dictate what they want to do for that trip. Well we want to swim with manatees. Well this manatee’s just eating and sleeping, it’s not doing a whole lot. Can we go find some others? Or, you know, it’s a little bit slow day on the manatee front. Can we go to a spring and check out what fish are there? And there could be tarpon or snook or sheep’s head or whatever fish in the area.

Jason Elkins (01:24:52.483)
Yeah.

Mike Engiles (01:25:10.774)
so you know, essenti it doesn’t matter to us at that point, you know you know, you signed up for a private mantis tour, but if you want to go see some other things, we’re here, you have the boat, let’s do it.

Jason Elkins (01:25:21.336)
Yeah. And as somebody that has guided a lot of people, there’s there’s benefits to both. You know, group tours can be great booking into group tour, maybe you save a little bit of money, maybe you want to meet new people. Like if you’re by yourself, maybe you don’t want a private tour, you want to go with a group and meet some people. But the private tours I remember, you know, when I was guiding it was great because

I could really just get a feel for the people and suggest things that you could never do. If you had a mix if you had a family of five that really just wanted to swim with manatees, and then you’ve got a family of three that are just open for an adventure, all on the same boat, you were kind of limited. But if you had that family of three that wanted to go have an adventure, you could do weird stuff that normally people just wouldn’t do. You’d say, Hey, I know this really cool spot where there’s this really big alligator snapping turtle or something. We should go look for it. I mean, whatever it is. Yeah. That’s cool.

Mike Engiles (01:26:12.206)
Yeah. Well or y you could swim a little further, you know, you could go somewhere. ‘Cause we get we get a lot of non swimmers.

Jason Elkins (01:26:14.304)
All right.

Jason Elkins (01:26:19.07)
Yeah.

Well and that’s yeah, yeah, that’s ’cause that’s another conversation c that comes up is either if you are very advanced and you really wanna just go do some cool stuff, or if you’re a weak swimmer and you know you’re a weak swimmer, maybe you should hire a private tour. Just a thought. I can say that. Maybe you don’t want to say that, but yeah, that’s

Mike Engiles (01:26:40.344)
Yeah.

No, w e every every guide has had a trip, multiple trips, with three or yeah. Nah. With three or four people holding on to I mean, literally where you’ve got you know, dad and daughter holding on one arm and you know, a mom and son on the other arm and you are towing four people through the water. you know, you know, and they come back and you know

Jason Elkins (01:26:49.506)
Like every day. Every trip.

Jason Elkins (01:27:01.261)
Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (01:27:05.431)
Uh-huh.

Mike Engiles (01:27:11.524)
They think their arms are about eight feet long because they’ve been stretched. it and you know, I’ve got pictures and you know the guides doing they usually laugh where there’s a toddler and the toddler’ll like climb on the guide’s back and ride along and the guide’ll be Okay, put your face in the water and they’ll like lean over and put their face in the water next to the guide and you know, check out the manatee that way. And mom and dad get to relax a little bit and enjoy it. So, you know.

Jason Elkins (01:27:35.447)
Yeah. And it’s

Yeah, yeah. There’s

Mike Engiles (01:27:40.686)
They can have their own experience, but you know, it’s still safe and controlled.

Jason Elkins (01:27:45.475)
That’s very, very cool. Mike, we’ve discussed a lot of different things. It’s been a fascinating convers and a just a fun conversation, not just fascinating. and I’m curious at this point, what do you wish I would have asked you or what do you what do you think I forgot to ask you that you want to make sure that we discuss before we wrap up?

Mike Engiles (01:28:06.806)
Nothing real explicitly. I could do a couple of you know, shameless plugs. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:28:10.348)
We could come back and do well, you know what? Go well, anybody that’s listening at this point is interested in what you’re doing. So if there’s something you want to discuss what you’re doing, yeah, please share it.

Mike Engiles (01:28:19.478)
So it’s Crystal River Watersports dot com. yeah, it’s a website. Yeah, we’ve got Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, etcetera. So you can follow us on social media. we’re getting into some scuba trips. We just returned from Fiji. we’re gonna go and we’re gonna go swim with Goliath Grupper in August and do some recs and you know, looking at doing other trips as

Jason Elkins (01:28:34.327)
wow.

Jason Elkins (01:28:42.626)
Where’s where’s that gonna be? Is that gonna be in Florida?

Mike Engiles (01:28:46.222)
Yep, Goliath Kruppers is gonna be off of Jupiter, Florida, southeast. And then we’re gonna do the wrecks. If they ever get around to sinking the SS United States, that’ll be up in the panhandle and we’ll do some other wrecks while we’re up there too. But it’d be kinda neat to see a ship that was recently sunk, you know, where it’s still completely recognizable without the corals and all the growth. and then g be able to go back a year or two years later and look at the changes.

Jason Elkins (01:29:05.474)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:29:15.222)
Yeah, yeah. That’s gonna be cool.

Mike Engiles (01:29:15.936)
So might go to Bonaire, could be Cayman, Belize, you know, you know, other dive destinations as well. the

Jason Elkins (01:29:24.674)
Very cool. So do you have so your website link is gonna be easy to find in the show notes. It’ll be and I assume that people can connect with your social media through your website as well. And any trips and promotion stuff you’re doing, do they need to sign up to get those notifications or are they on the website or what do you suggest?

Mike Engiles (01:29:37.709)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mike Engiles (01:29:45.267)
Yeah, they’re they’re on the website or you know, if you pop up us pop us a message we can add you to an email list as well.

Jason Elkins (01:29:52.621)
Okay. Very and these trips that you’re talking about, non diving companions or non divers or snorkelers, are these generally gonna be trips that are suitable for both types or are these hardcore dive trips?

Mike Engiles (01:30:07.488)
the antenna’s a dive trip, but we had some we had a couple that went to Fiji that didn’t dive and they had a blast. They went snorkeling every day and they saw a black tip shark and octopus and all kinds of stuff while they were out snorkeling. enough so that they got all the divers to jump in and go snorkeling after getting back from the boat trip. So, yeah the there’s generally other stuff to do.

Jason Elkins (01:30:15.806)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:30:30.318)
All right.

Mike Engiles (01:30:34.946)
It know, it depends on the location and the re you know, where we’re staying, but you know, there’s worse places to spend some time, you know, Fiji, you know, Florida Keys, Belize, Grand Cayman, you know. So you most people can find some way to entertain themselves.

Jason Elkins (01:30:46.05)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:30:53.462)
Very cool. I just wanna make sure that anybody listening to this that’s like maybe they’re really into diving, the wife’s not, or vice versa, and they heard you say dive trip to Fiji. I just wanna make sure that, you know, that they should probably still go click you know, go on your website, take a look. all right. Very, very cool. Mm-hmm.

Mike Engiles (01:31:07.166)
Well what I’d say real quick on that one is we went to Fiji as a scuba trip. But what I came out of it was an appreciation for the Fijian people and the culture. And that’s and that’s travel in general, which is, you know, why you’re here. yeah, that’s what makes all travel kind of neat. So you know, I’m saying scuba trip, but what really set it apart were the people and the other aspects of it.

Jason Elkins (01:31:18.615)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:31:23.459)
Yep.

Jason Elkins (01:31:36.556)
You know, I love that you said I’m so happy you brought that up because I worked in fly fishing for f for many years. And I think I got to the point where I was you know what, it’s not about about the fishing. Maybe some guys would some hardcore fishermen would argue with and say, Jason, you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. But it became it’s not about the fishing, but man, fishing for me

Especially fly fishing was is a really good excuse to go see some really cool places, meet some really cool people, and just connect with people. You know, I led a lot of fishing trips around the world. I’d take a group of ten, twelve people, and it was at the end it was never about the fishing. When we were giving a hugs to each other at the end of the trip.

We weren’t, man, this fish the fishing was amazing. It was, man, look at the connections we made. Look at the the staff that worked at these lodges and the guides and all that stuff. So it really is. And I and I see scuba diving the same way. Is what a great excuse to go, yeah, okay, maybe you go to Galapagos to see hammerhead sharks, but there’s so much other stuff you’re gonna take away from it. So thanks, Mike. This was fascinating.

Mike Engiles (01:32:45.23)
Y yeah. Yeah, thank you, Jason. I enjoyed it. And and

Jason Elkins (01:32:49.206)
All right. Well I look forward to meeting you in Florida at some point and getting a little closer to your manatees. I don’t know if that sounds weird, but All right, Mike, thanks. We’re gonna l let’s stay in touch and I’ll look forward to seeing you soon.

Mike Engiles (01:32:57.25)
It could.

Mike Engiles (01:33:05.514)
Sounds good, Jason. Thank you. Bye.

 

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