Guest Bio
Nancy De Losa is the co-founder of A’qto Italian Cycling Tours, a boutique tour company that offers immersive cycling experiences in Italy. With a deep connection to Italy through her heritage and passion for travel, Nancy brings a unique combination of expertise in marketing, brand development, and entrepreneurship to A’qto. Since founding the company in 2015 with her husband, Damian Hancock, she has crafted unforgettable cycling, kayaking, and hiking tours that immerse travelers in Italy’s culture, landscapes, and traditions. Nancy is dedicated to personal growth, mentoring women, and creating meaningful connections through travel.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Nancy De Losa, co-founder of A’qto Italian Cycling Tours, about her journey from Australia to Italy and the creation of her boutique cycling and adventure tour company. Nancy discusses the importance of cultural exploration and the differences between tourism and hospitality, emphasizing the value of creating personal, authentic connections with local communities. The conversation also highlights the impact of overtourism, the benefits of tailored group dynamics, and how A’qto’s non-riding partner program helps make cycling tours accessible to all. Nancy shares her favorite Italian destinations and offers insights into planning a memorable Italian adventure.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ A’qto Italian Cycling Tours provides unique cycling, hiking, and kayaking experiences across Italy.
- ✓ Italy is Nancy’s heritage, and she shares a deep personal connection to the country’s traditions and culture.
- ✓ Tourism vs. hospitality – Creating genuine connections is at the heart of A’qto’s experiences.
- ✓ Overtourism is a concern – It’s important to find ways to make travel more sustainable and less overwhelming for local communities.
- ✓ Group dynamics matter – Understanding different skill levels and fostering community within a group enhances the tour experience.
- ✓ Non-riding partner programs make A’qto’s tours accessible for everyone, not just cyclists.
- ✓ Authentic experiences are the core value of A’qto, ensuring that travelers connect meaningfully with the places they visit.
- ✓ Personal growth and mentoring women are important to Nancy, and she incorporates these values into her business practices.
What You’ll Find at A’qto Italian Cycling Tours
- ✓ Customized cycling, kayaking, and hiking tours through some of Italy’s most beautiful and less-visited regions.
- ✓ A focus on authentic Italian culture, ensuring travelers experience Italy as locals do.
- ✓ A flexible non-riding partner program, ensuring the tours cater to everyone, whether cycling or not.
- ✓ Tailored group dynamics that consider different fitness levels and ensure everyone has an enjoyable experience.
- ✓ Immersive cultural experiences, including local cuisine, historical sites, and community interactions that enhance the travel experience.
👉 Visit A’qto Italian Cycling Tours Official Website to explore their unique Italian cycling experiences and learn more about Nancy De Losa’s mission to bring travelers closer to Italy’s rich culture and landscapes.
Learn more about A’qto Cycling and connect with Nancy at:
https://www.aqtocycling.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.005)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today. Also super happy to have Nancy De Losa here with us. She’s the co-founder of AQTO. And she’s going to tell us more about what that is. So Nancy, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Nancy (00:20.512)
Thank you, Jason. It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me.
Jason Elkins (00:24.055)
It’s my pleasure. We’re going to have a wonderful conversation and let’s jump in with what is AQTO
Nancy (00:29.848)
So, AQTO is a boutique cycling company. So we started the business, well, the tours part of the business, almost 10 years ago, and have been very focused on cycling tours in Italy primarily, for the past 10 years. And we’ve just launched out a little bit from purely cycling into the adventure world, which is very pertinent to this podcast, Jason.
But yes, I launched some new tours last week, which take in sort of kayaking, a blended experience of cycling, kayaking, hiking, and range of different adventure experiences. So that’s quite an exciting step for us.
Jason Elkins (01:07.851)
Yeah, I can see it for our listeners that aren’t able to see your face. I can see you’re all lit up about this. So super excited to touch on that stuff. And I don’t want to sound stereotypical, but you don’t sound Italian. So I feel like there’s some digging to do. tell us, how did you, where did you start out? How did you get from where you were to where you are now? Okay. Now you sound Italian.
Nancy (01:24.494)
I said, Yeah, no thanks, Jason. No, Italian background through and through. So I have Italian parents, but I was born in Australia and had spent all of my younger years in Australia. And it was on meeting my husband about 15 years ago that we both found each other and discovered that we each wanted to be.
based in Italy for some part of our life. hence the tours business began not so much by planning, but by chance or maybe by planting a seed and that unfolding to become a reality, which was quite an exciting time. And yeah, so for the last 10 years, we’ve spent a big part of our life in Italy and we generally spend six to seven months in Italy each year and the rest of our time in Australia. So when we’re not running tours. Yeah, so an Australian background, but very much
Jason Elkins (02:07.427)
Yes, at the last table.
generally spend six to seven months in the office.
Jason Elkins (02:19.343)
Yeah, so an Australian background that very much, I would say, Italian background really. So grew up with Italian parents in Australia and grew up with their nationality. I think your insights are probably much more precise than mine, but I feel that Italian is one of those things that no matter where you live, you can still be Italian. There’s a lot of Italians in South America. There’s a lot of Italians and everywhere.
Nancy (02:20.834)
well, I would say Italian background really. So I grew up with Italian parents in Australia and grew up very much with Italian cultural heritage.
Jason Elkins (02:48.275)
And I’ve noticed that with the Italians I know that it remains a part of their identity. It seems like no matter where they go, has that been your experience as well? It sounds like.
Nancy (02:58.324)
Yeah, definitely. think, as I said, growing up, mean, our parents really wanted us to be integrated into Australian culture. you know, being fairly new immigrants to Australia, they were very keen for us to never experience the sort of, I guess, slander that can come with new immigrants to countries. And that was certainly the case in Australia back in that day, in those days. But I think Italians always been very much in my heart. And I think that really came to be very true when I first landed in the country when I was 20.
and I started to cry when the plan touched down and I just felt an instant connection that I guess probably had been in me all along but until you actually plant your feet on the ground of the country it’s probably difficult to feel what that really means and it was from that day really Jason that I think I really discovered that my Italian-ness was very much a part of me and something that I wanted to continue to nurture throughout my life.
Jason Elkins (03:55.575)
Wow. Did you, you mentioned that your parents really wanted you to kind of assimilate. I maybe already mentioned, were you actually born in Australia? Okay. So did you have other than your parents, did you have other Italians around you as well? Because I know typically you do.
Nancy (04:03.542)
Yes, born in Australia.
Nancy (04:10.944)
Yeah, yeah, so all of my family, as in my dad’s, all of his siblings, his parents moved to Australia, except my grandmother who remained in Italy. didn’t she wasn’t alive when he moved to Australia and but on my mum’s side as well. So we had a very big family in Australia. So I grew up with a lot of cousins and a family that we came together every single weekend.
And in fact, my parents and their siblings owned businesses together and worked together. So yeah, it was very much an Italian community of our own family. Yes, very much so. And I mean, I think it still continues today with a lot of cultures that are migrating to new countries that they do stick together because I think they feel comfortable and feel at home amongst each other’s company.
Jason Elkins (04:42.863)
Yeah, was very much an Italian. It sounds Italian. Yeah. I mean, I think it still continues to.
Nancy (04:59.082)
But yeah, we were still though very integrated into the Australian culture and you know, my parents certainly, as I said, were very big advocates of us not speaking Italian actually, which was very interesting. They wanted to speak Italian to us, but wanted us to speak English back. But fortunately, somehow we all studied Italian all through our school years and spoke the language. So that put me in good stead for living here, which has been great. But yeah, no, was a very blended, I guess, upbringing, but one that
Jason Elkins (05:16.263)
Somehow we all studied Italian throughout school years.
Jason Elkins (05:25.059)
But yeah, no, was a very blended upbringing. Definitely in a time.
Nancy (05:29.218)
Definitely an Italian heritage, but definitely grounded in Australia as well.
Jason Elkins (05:34.489)
Right. Did you, and you mentioned the first time you went to Italy was you were 20? Is that right? Do you remember the first time you thought you wanted to go? Was it at 20 or did you think about going to Italy before that?
Nancy (05:40.534)
Yeah, yeah.
Nancy (05:49.824)
Yeah, I think it was earlier. think because I studied Italian all through school and we were learning about it all the time. I think I always had a desire in me. I used to think, yeah, I’ll get there one day. But knew that it wouldn’t be with my parents. My parents never returned to Italy actually, which is rather interesting in itself. And
Jason Elkins (06:02.243)
you
Jason Elkins (06:09.677)
Were they, I’m just curious, because Australia is a long ways away. So I can think of a few different reasons why somebody may not return. One of those is just the sheer distance, maybe not wanting to be on a plane that long, but were they, were they like really against going back to Italy or it just didn’t happen or what do you, what do you think?
Nancy (06:14.337)
it is.
Nancy (06:21.656)
Yeah.
Nancy (06:31.116)
Yeah, it’s interesting. My dad, certainly not against going back, but just didn’t have it in them to go back. I think they really, when they left Italy post-war, it was not a really nice time in Italy. And I think they were sold the big story and achieved and lived the big story of a better life abroad. And they certainly felt that they had a really good life in Australia. And I think because all their family was there as well, there was sort of nothing really drawing them back.
Jason Elkins (06:43.887)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nancy (06:58.904)
particularly my dad, then my dad passed and I remember saying to my mum, would she like to go to Italy? And she said, I would. And unfortunately for whatever reason, my mum then passed and she wasn’t able to come back either. But I’ve certainly lived their life of travel, you know, over and over again. And my aunt often actually says to me, you know, you just keep living that life you live because that would be something your mum would have wanted to do. So whether it was something she didn’t tell me.
Jason Elkins (07:12.409)
their life of travel over and over again.
Jason Elkins (07:23.823)
So whether it was something she didn’t tell me too much because I didn’t…
Nancy (07:25.388)
too much because maybe they couldn’t or maybe she just felt that it wasn’t something that they would do. Yeah, they never made it back. So I’m certainly making up for all of that and more.
Jason Elkins (07:37.116)
Yeah, well, because a little while ago, you’d mentioned seeds, you know, the seed being planted. that’s I wanted to kind of touch on that. Did you have other people around you and your family in that Italian community that desired to go back? Or was there anybody specific that really kind of pushed you or encouraged you to get in?
There’s so many things I know that because you also mentioned your husband and your partner and all that stuff. So tell us a little bit more about that.
Nancy (08:01.014)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so I think what happened from when the first time I came, when I came with a friend, you know, on the first big backpacking adventure to Europe and Italy being a big part of that and feeling very connected to the country and I think speaking the language and having the culture was, you know, a big part of it. But from then I came back to Italy every year and I actually had a friend in Rome and she was a lawyer and I had a career, a corporate marketing career and I said to her at one stage, I think it might have been
about 27 or 28 years old. And I said to her, you know, I think I’d love to come and live in Italy for a while. I think I’m going to see if I can get a job. And she said to me, you know, I think you have a better life in Australia. Just always come to Italy on a holiday and keep doing what you do. And I don’t know if that was good advice or bad advice or whatever it was, but that was what I kept doing. And then I kept pursuing my career. And as I said, I then met my husband. And I think the seed was in me of wanting to live in Italy at some stage in my life.
Jason Elkins (08:51.247)
was good advice or bad advice, whatever it was that I was going to keep doing.
Nancy (09:02.6)
it hadn’t sort of presented itself until that time and then Damien and I met and one of the first conversations we had he said to me, do you have Italian background? And I said yeah do and he said that’s so interesting because all I’ve ever wanted to do is go and live in Italy and I said me too and I said actually I yeah yeah that was probably one of our first conversations. He’s an Aussie yeah but I always say it Jason he sometimes could have a bigger Italian heart than me in some ways he’s
Jason Elkins (09:08.655)
But he was Aussie, he’s Aussie, right?
Nancy (09:29.922)
definitely very much attuned to the culture and loves everything about it. So very, very passionate about Italy. So yes, there are times that you could think he had the Italian background and not me, but yeah, we both really enjoy it.
Jason Elkins (09:46.169)
We’ve been chatting a fair amount about Italy and the draw for Italy and your history there. And you also mentioned that you worked in corporate marketing. Is that right?
Nancy (09:57.132)
Yes, yeah, I did.
Jason Elkins (09:59.439)
So tell me about the tourism part. Was this just because I wanted to be in Italy and that was what made sense? Or had you kind of envisioned when you were younger doing something in tourism, how did you get on the tourism part?
Nancy (10:15.862)
Yeah, it’s interesting because I’d almost say it’s more the hospitality part than it is the tourism as such. I think if I go back to. Yeah, think. Yeah, interesting, because I’m only reflecting on that now, but I think if I look back through my younger years as a child and also growing up and through my career, I’ve always been in.
Jason Elkins (10:22.991)
Okay, why is that an important distinction? Help me understand why that’s an important distinction.
Jason Elkins (10:34.169)
young people.
Nancy (10:40.352)
in a role of always loved that sense of hospitality and being in a role of being hospitable. So I think with a corporate brand and marketing background, you know, I was involved in hosting a lot of events and international tourism became part of that. But I think it was the hospitality and loving hosting people and sharing experiences with people that was very much part of me. And I think the tourism part to me is the travel part.
but not necessarily the hospitality part. Is that a distinction? Clear distinction? Yeah.
Jason Elkins (11:13.047)
It’s, it is, it’s interesting. It’s an interesting one. And the reason I wanted to touch on it is because it’s not a distinction I’ve heard very often. you know, we tend to say, we, work in tourism, but you did a pretty good job of kind of explaining the hospitality part being the, you know, kind of just hosting, being with people and, and that’s a super important, super important distinction. But then you mentioned the tourism as the travel part.
Nancy (11:21.955)
Right.
Jason Elkins (11:41.603)
So I feel like there’s something else we need to keep digging on this. Well, and I’ll be honest with you. First thing that comes up is there’s some talk right now in the world about over tourism. We’re hearing almost the word tourism. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t want to go off the rails here, but it’s there’s maybe some negative connotation with it.
Nancy (11:41.774)
Yeah.
Nancy (11:45.184)
Yeah, it’s an interesting question, Jason, and thank you for asking it because I probably haven’t answered it before.
Nancy (12:08.866)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:09.291)
And when I hear you talk about hospitality and I see the look on your face, it’s like taking care of people and connecting with people. and so there seems to be a difference. Do you think that current thing with tourism over tourism, do you think that impacts your thoughts on this at all? Especially being that you do business in Italy.
Nancy (12:25.142)
I, you know, it’s really interesting because as you were talking just then, what came to me was the difference between which is, you know, the very essence of your podcasts, which is about adventure and tourism. So to me, tourism and sort of the over tourism conversation that’s going on at the moment is very much about, I mean, I read something the other day that, you know, 78 % of the people that are in Italy right now are in five places.
Jason Elkins (12:50.481)
Thank you.
Nancy (12:54.538)
and they’re all the common ones that we all know, Rome, Florence, Amalfi Coast and Cinque Terre. So for 78 % of the population or travelling population to be in five places, it’s incredible to me. It’s just, you know, this sense of a lack of adventure in a way or a lack of desire to venture further than what is the common place or the place that, you know, you must see or the place that you must tick the box.
Jason Elkins (12:55.299)
Ooh.
Jason Elkins (13:01.327)
So 78 % of the population.
Nancy (13:22.806)
I don’t know. I tend to be probably a bit more of, and when I think of adventure, I think of it as a mindset and almost a personality because I think of people being adventurous and having the courage to step out further or, you know, having an attitude that wants to be curious and explore further. So I think these are lots of themes that are all sort of intermingled in a way. I hospitality underpins, I guess, the
Jason Elkins (13:22.895)
I don’t know. tend to be probably a bit more… and when I think of adventure I think of it as a mindset, know, almost a personality.
Jason Elkins (13:33.625)
being adventurous.
Jason Elkins (13:42.212)
So, there’s a lot of themes that are often influenced by way. I hospitality underpins.
Nancy (13:52.451)
the creation of an experience for people. And I think that’s probably what I define as this, you know, think tourism is something that you do or you experience, but I think for hospitality is about the experience you create. that’s how I feel in a way is that I feel I’m creating experiences for people.
Jason Elkins (14:00.559)
You know, think tourism is something that you do or you experience, but I think it’s the opposite.
Jason Elkins (14:09.231)
That’s how I feel. I like that. I’m really, really happy we went this way with the conversation already because I’m thinking, OK, well, tourism could be people hitting those five spots in Italy. They hop on a plane, they fly in a room, they go to the Coliseum, they go, you know, wherever, right, to these different places so they can get their Instagram shots, whether they’re doing it on their own or whether they’re part of a
big bus tour or whatever. And I’m like, yeah, okay. Tourism applies to a bunch of things, but kind of what I hear you describing is a little bit more of that. Let’s go do something a little different. Let’s really connect with people, either people in the group, your guide, local communities, that type of thing. And, and I agree with you completely on the, you know, what is adventure travel? For me, adventure travel could be walking, you know,
tour is maybe a more popular place and you see some dark little, I shouldn’t say dark little alley, but maybe you see a side street and you see something’s going on down there and you just walk down there, you go have an adventure and you go to those places where the quote unquote tourists don’t usually go. And I know for me as I travel, when people say, are you here for tourism?
I work in the tourism business in a sense, right? But at the same time, like, no, I’m not a tourist. I’m here to have an adventure. I’m here to have an experience. I’m here to connect with the locals. Yeah, yeah. Please don’t call me a tourist. And honestly, when I go places, if I look around and I don’t see any tourists, I don’t see anybody looks like me. I feel like I’ve won something. I got a I got a prize. So that’s what I hear when you’re when you’re describing this. Does that resonate?
Nancy (15:37.78)
Yeah. Yeah.
to explore further and yeah.
Nancy (16:00.556)
Yeah, it really does. And I think, I mean, it goes so much as, know, Damien and I were in Rome just two weeks ago. And, you know, that’s a place that we’ve been too many times. And it’s one of the places that’s absolutely is being, you know, hailed as over-touristed. And yeah, there were, there were a lot of people there, but we managed to create an experience over two days that was completely different to what we had done before. So this is a place that has so much to offer.
Jason Elkins (16:04.163)
Yeah.
Nancy (16:27.25)
so we stayed away from all the hotspots and all the, yeah, you know, as you said, the Instagram hotspot places, but managed to create a new experience for ourselves that makes us want to go back even more because it makes you feel, wow, this is just, you know, there is an adventure here. There’s new places to discover. There’s so many new restaurants to, but people tend to tend to, I’m not saying everybody tend to go back to the same places and, know, stick the box. going back to Rome or, know, we sort of hear the
Jason Elkins (16:56.911)
sort of hear that, yeah, I’ve been to Florence before, done that. And it’s like, well, there’s probably a lot.
Nancy (16:57.134)
Oh yeah, been to Florence before, done that. And it’s like, well, there’s probably a lot you haven’t seen and there’s probably lots. And that’s not for everybody. I guess that’s where I’m saying. I think that is the distinction though between somebody who’s probably a little bit more adventurous and has a little bit more of a spirit of curiosity and a sense of adventure versus someone that is very much visiting the tourist hotspots and having a very tourist type holiday.
Jason Elkins (17:25.025)
Right. Cause I imagine, cause you said, I think it was 78 % of people in Italy from outside Italy, let’s call them tourists, whatever. visitors are in five places, but then I bet if you looked at those five places, 78 % of the people in that place are probably within a 10 block radius of the Coliseum or the leaning tower or the, or the whatever. So.
Nancy (17:46.047)
Exactly.
Nancy (17:51.723)
Exactly.
Jason Elkins (17:52.547)
what I heard you saying about going to Rome and creating experiences that you hadn’t experienced before. It’s probably because you, it probably wasn’t right across the street from the Colosseum, I’m guessing.
Nancy (18:01.038)
Yeah, that’s right. And, you know, I think it takes a sense of curiosity and adventure, as I said earlier, that I think you want to discover different places. don’t, you know, and I’m not saying that the Coliseum and the Vatican, because we also went past the Vatican, but we went for a walk at six o’clock in the morning instead of going at nine o’clock and trying to get indoors. you know, I think these are some places that certainly, you know, some time in your life.
they’re a must see. I think there are times in a year that they’re better to see than others. That’s the other thing is people tend to always want to come in the peak months and for a range of reasons. And we understand that as well. I think there’s a certain with this over tourism conversation, and that’s probably what we’re leaning into at the moment is just there is channels and avenues to break out of that and to have an experience of Italy or France or wherever we are talking about that is different.
Jason Elkins (18:43.161)
think there’s certainly with this over-true.
these.
Jason Elkins (18:53.347)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy (18:58.466)
to the norm.
Jason Elkins (19:00.525)
What’s some curious what your approach is with your potential clients? Is it? You know, so maybe you’ve got somebody that that calls you and says we want to do, you know, they list off six places that everybody says they want to do. Do you work with them to try and encourage them to take a step outside of that? Or do you just decide, you know what, maybe we’re not the right company for you and.
How do you handle those?
Nancy (19:31.084)
Yeah, so I mean the core of what we do is a packaged tour. So somebody will join us and the full package is, you know, a full package that’s already been developed. And as part of the design of those tours, I guess we’re always creating experiences within the overall experience that are different. You know, I talk about the finding the little restaurant that isn’t the most obvious one or, you know, the family wine tasting that isn’t the largest winery in town, that kind of thing.
So that’s something that Damien and I very much build into the curation and design of our tours is trying to take people to places where they connect more with the locals or, you know, it’s a little bit off the beaten path. It’s not the mainstream place that you would go to. In terms of the cycling routes as well, and in terms of, you know, the hikes we do and things like that, again, not always the most common. Obviously some places lend themselves to being a little bit more off the beaten path than others.
Jason Elkins (20:17.169)
of the cycling routes as well.
Nancy (20:28.492)
I think the very design of our tours is about trying to take people out of the mainstream. And certainly with cycling, mean, you’re in the countryside, you’re in landscapes that are very diverse day by day. just the very nature of the type of tour that we run means that you are outside of the hotspots, if you like. But then within that, so somebody could say to us, for example, Jason, no, I don’t want to do Tuscany. I’ve already been there. I’ve already ridden Tuscany.
Jason Elkins (20:28.751)
So I think it’s a very design of the edges of that kind.
and it certainly would soften the
Jason Elkins (20:48.817)
And do you think so in a sense?
Nancy (20:56.65)
And you’ll say, so where have you written in Tuscany? And you know, they’ll say somewhere and it won’t invariably won’t be where we go. So it’s like, you know, there’s Tuscany and there’s Tuscany. Like there’s different experiences of Tuscany that can be created. So it’s not to sort of to say that, you know, people don’t like to experience things over and over again. Some people do like coming back to a place. But I think within a place you can create still some very different experiences for people. And
know, the group that you’re with, the time of year that you’re there. So many things influence your overall experience. And I think mine and Damien’s overall goal is to create an experience where everybody comes and walks away, having felt that they’ve immersed a little more than, you know, they may have if they went on their own or the last time they went if they’ve already been there. And that’s really our goal.
Jason Elkins (21:49.603)
curious, do you sometimes feel pressure when you’re looking at your product development and, you know, or experience development or whatever words you want to use, trying to figure out, what are going to be the offerings for next year?
when 78 % of the people going to Italy are spending most of their time in these more popular places, is there a bit of a trade-off? I mean, here’s where I’m going with this, is I imagine sometimes it’s like, geez, you know, if we did a five Instagram moments in Italy tour, we would sell more tours because obviously there’s demand for it, but it’s kind of off-brand. It’s not really what you’re excited about. It’s not what you want to offer your clients.
Nancy (22:32.11)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (22:34.849)
So how do you balance that out and just kind of say, you know what, just because everybody else is doing it doesn’t mean we’re going to do it. And I’d rather make a little less money and create amazing experiences for my clients than just almost sell out. don’t know if I want to, cause I’m sure I have guests and friends and people that are doing those tours a lot. So I don’t know. are your thoughts on that?
Nancy (22:50.604)
Yeah.
Nancy (22:56.298)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think you used the right word. was balance. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, we are, you know, a commercial operator. You have to make a living. You know, this is our business. So we are always balancing some of them. So while our hotspots from a cycling and adventure perspective are a little bit different to the let’s call them the tourism hotspots, because we’re outside of the main cities and outside of the main areas, there still is some hotspots for cycling, if you like. So, for example, you know, the Dolomites,
very sought after destination. But I think for us, it’s about saying that, well, yeah, there’s the Dolomites, but there’s different ways you can do it. So it’s about creating an experience within the Dolomites that is on brand for us and works for us in terms of the level of writing per day, in terms of the types of climbs that are selected, in terms of the post-write experience and some of the cultural immersion experiences that we aim to create for guests. So I think it’s about
Jason Elkins (23:54.901)
I think it’s about, you know, even with…
Nancy (23:55.522)
even with some of these places that are a little bit more popular, it is about applying your kind of brand and your level of thinking in terms of the design of the tour to make it a little bit different. And so far that’s worked really well for us. Yeah, and we try to have a balance of, sorry, sorry, Jason, you go.
Jason Elkins (24:09.215)
So it might be…
No, no, just was, I was going to suggest I’m just trying to visualize what that looks like. So maybe that’s the six, eight, you know, maybe, okay, yeah, we’re going to go to the Vatican, but we’re going to go at six AM and we’re going to bring a thermos of coffee and some resorts and we’re going to sit across the street at a place. Nobody goes and, and do something just a little bit different. So you, okay, you got to see the Vatican and, but we’re going to do it in a different way type of thing. that part of what I’m hearing?
Nancy (24:42.476)
Yeah, that kind of thing. think it’s also, I think where we can bring that out a lot is one in the food and wine experiences that we create as well for guests. So I think, you know, the selection of places where we do choose to dine and have, you know, a seven night experience, we really aim to have quite a diverse experience and have people walk away saying, gee, you know, we’ve just finished a tour in Piedmontier today. And I’m sure every guest walked away saying, gee, I think I tried every Piedmontier wine.
Jason Elkins (24:46.127)
think where we.
Nancy (25:11.092)
And, you know, I feel pretty good about that. Or I tried all of the dishes that are, you know, their main dishes, but also managed to also try some dishes that aren’t so familiar. So I think for us, it’s just really about applying that level of thinking to creating both a varied and diverse experience that gives people that sense of, yes, they’ve really experienced a region or a place, but also an immersive experience. you know, being in touch with locals and having conversations with
Jason Elkins (25:12.611)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (25:21.711)
I think for us it’s just really about…
Nancy (25:39.778)
you everyday people as opposed to just, you know, being taken around on a bus or, you know, on a bike, you know, in our context and not explaining or talking too much about, you know, the local environment that we’re in or interacting with locals. So all of our support team is always, are always local staff. So our guests love, you know, being able to interact with the locals and yeah, so it’s very much part of the design of our tours is to bring.
Jason Elkins (25:40.72)
everyday people as opposed to just being taken around on a bus or on a bike.
Jason Elkins (26:01.807)
you
Yeah, so it’s very much a problem for community to be able bring people very much to the core of the campus. How does the group size and maybe other factors that you use around the group size, the group dynamics, the ratio of staff to guests and stuff, how does that all play in?
Nancy (26:08.184)
bring people very much to the core of a place and feeling that place as they’re traversing.
Nancy (26:29.836)
Yeah, so it’s a really important one, Jason. We cap our groups at 14 guests and it’s a fairly deliberate number for a range of reasons. But I think one is that it’s a number that together with our staff, so with 14 guests, we’ll generally have four staff. We can still, you know, be part of staying in boutique hotels, for example, instead of having to stay in large. So we still stay in very family run boutique.
villas and massereas and places that are in the countryside and allow us to have, you know, 10 rooms or so. Through to the types of restaurants we choose. So, you know, we can still dine in places that a small little family run, Osterias, for example. So it’s a deliberate number in terms of the capped number. Sometimes, you know, we might just have 10 people on a tour and I guess just all plays out to be just a…
Jason Elkins (27:06.467)
to the types of restaurants.
Jason Elkins (27:14.927)
Deliberate number.
Jason Elkins (27:22.435)
guess just all plays out to be just a more intimate.
Nancy (27:24.214)
a more intimate experience for everybody. We very much try to have people all seated around one table at night and sharing conversation. Or if we are split across two tables that we’re mixing it up each night. So for us, yeah, the size of the group is an important one. And it’s one that we very deliberately keep small and keep intimate for a range of reasons. As I said, it gives us access to a range of experiences that we think are important in terms of experiencing Italy.
Jason Elkins (27:30.255)
around on the table at night and sharing conversations or if you ask for the first two tables at the end of the day.
Jason Elkins (27:50.871)
No, I get that. That makes complete sense from a, I don’t want to say logistics. I don’t like that word, but from a, can stay in smaller places. We can visit places that larger groups can’t visit, all that. And I suspect maybe some of our listeners that have been thinking, you know, might be interested in going on a trip like this, haven’t been on a group trip or maybe they haven’t been on a group trip like you’re describing where it’s smaller. Maybe they’ve been on a large tour.
But as far as the interpersonal dynamics, what would you like to share with a listener that, know, like, like some people might say, well, geez, a small group. What if I don’t like the people in the group? What if they don’t like me? You know, maybe it’s easier to blend in if it’s a bigger group or, you know, I’m an introvert. Am I going to have to be on all the time if I, you know, so I think these are legitimate questions. I suspect you’ve heard before.
or you definitely have seen them in play in the group. So somebody who’s never been on a small intimate group trip like that, what should they know about the interpersonal part?
Nancy (28:55.116)
Yeah, so I think firstly that because we’re dealing with kind of a like minded person in the sense that we have an interest around cycling or being adventurous and active is you tend to find and because people are seeking out being in Italy, you tend to find that most people get along really well and you know often they’ll leave having made some great friends. The other part of it which is a really interesting
thing, Jason, is that as I reflect back on my career and what I’ve done through my life, I started out my life doing change facilitation and group management. And it’s amazing how that skill set from a very early stage in my career plays out on tour. So I think being mindful of how things are playing out as well. I think probably one of the most challenging areas is on the bike for Damien with a diverse group of riders coming together. They’ve never ridden before.
Jason Elkins (29:40.87)
I think being mindful of how things are playing out as well, you know, think probably one of the most challenging areas is on the bike and music, a diverse group of riders.
Nancy (29:52.6)
you know, they might be eight to 10 of them. And, you know, they always come with a little bit of anxiety around how they’re going to fit in with the group or how well they’re going to ride and are they going to be able to keep up. That’s probably the area that we get most people concerned, not so much at the social level. But, you know, the way that we manage the groups, always have to…
Jason Elkins (29:59.919)
going to fit in with the group, or how well we’re going to lie, and other things that we think are probably the most people concerned. Not so much at the social level. But the way that we manage the groups, always have to achieve new things.
Nancy (30:13.102)
two ride guides on the road and we have a support vehicle. So it’s a very supported experience and so people can, generally the group will break into a couple of smaller groups. yeah, it’s a very inclusive experience of riding that tends to cater to the stronger riders. And if there’s a couple of weaker riders that aren’t as strong as the front group, they’ll always be looked after at the back. I think that’s probably the area where we see
Jason Elkins (30:24.911)
It’s a very inclusive experience of riding. It tends to cater to the stronger riders and the weaker riders. So I think that’s probably the area where we’d be most concerned.
Nancy (30:40.076)
the most concern with people who haven’t perhaps joined a smaller group. I think it’s less around the social side of it, as I mentioned, but occasionally, you know, you’ll have people who aren’t as, as you said, sort of maybe a little bit more introverted aren’t as outgoing, but you tend to find that in the small group environment, it becomes even easier because people are so keen to meet each other and keen to talk. So we find that people, you know, often we’ll have solo travelers joining us, many.
Jason Elkins (30:45.519)
less of an issue in the social side of it as I mentioned. But occasionally you know have people who as you said sort of have a little bit of an interweaving with others. But you tend to find that illness over time.
Jason Elkins (31:01.711)
So we find that people often have that solo and public…
Nancy (31:08.852)
And, you know, they’ll come on their own and, you know, might for the first little while feel like, you know, who am going to talk to here, sizing everybody up? By, you know, the end of the tour, they’ve, you know, found some great new friends. So it’s, yeah, I think it’s the intimate nature of the group experience and the like-mindedness, as I said, about the fact that, you know, most people are there to cycle and or be adventurous and have a very active holiday. So you tend to find that in the main, we get people really enjoying the experience together.
Jason Elkins (31:16.626)
by the end of the tour.
Yeah, I think the information that NYCHA has been doing and the lack of knowledge is a big part of
Jason Elkins (31:37.391)
That’s a, that makes a lot of sense. And you’re right. When you mentioned it’s not so much the social stuff that our groups worry about because, because you’ve got a, you know, the biking, know, the cycling, and there’s probably that, well, I’m not a strong cyclist or maybe a couple, you know, or like the wife really likes to ride. And the husband’s like, I’ve been on a bike three times in my life and
Nancy (31:56.397)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (32:03.511)
I’m going to be embarrassed. I don’t want to be that guy who’s like slowing everybody else down. So those are the types of conversations I’m sure you have. Do, and I’m sure each one of your different routes, you know, it’s different, but do you have moments where you’re talking to someone planning a trip and you’re like, yeah, you know what, maybe, maybe this is not right for you. I mean, is there a certain level of experience or a certain level of physical ability that you, you just
Honestly, say, look, you’re not going to enjoy it. You know, if you can’t, yeah. Okay.
Nancy (32:35.106)
We do, we do. Am I very honest about that? Cause we don’t want people to come on tour either and feel, you know, that they’re not having a good time because it’s really not the right fit tour for them. So we do have quite a lot of inquiry and quite a lot of conversation with people before the tour. People generally, they’re, so there is a level of experience as a cyclist that is required. One, because Italy is a very hilly and mountainous terrain in the main.
Jason Elkins (32:53.561)
There is a level of experience.
Nancy (33:03.264)
So it really does demand that somebody who’s riding a bike is quite fit and quite healthy and quite a strong cyclist. In saying that, there are some regions that have less hilly terrain than others. So we sort of tend to have a spread across a range of different terrain to suit different cyclists and their level of experience and the type of cycling that they enjoy. So some love the mountains, some don’t love the mountains, some love a flatter terrain.
Jason Elkins (33:20.911)
to suit different types of experience and have a talk with that they enjoy.
Nancy (33:30.37)
We tend to have a group or a collection of tours that caters to those different levels. think then within the tour, as I mentioned, it’s about managing various riding levels and we tend to do that quite well with the amount of support staff we have and what have you. And then the other beauty, I think, of our tours is that we have a non-riding partner program. So we do have tours where a couple of cyclists…
Jason Elkins (33:35.983)
think then within the tour, as a member.
Jason Elkins (33:47.695)
And the other beauty I think about children is that they haven’t been able to do in their lives. So, we do have that tool as well.
Nancy (33:55.968)
Each tour might say, you know, hey, I’d really love a day off the bike and I’d love to come and join you, Nancy, because I lead the non-riding partner program. You know, we’re doing a day trip into Siena or we’re doing a hike in the Dolomites or we’re, you know, at a cooking class in Pullia. There’s a whole range of different experiences that we do each day for the non-riding partner program. So there is the flexibility for someone who may not be a really strong cyclist, but also doesn’t want to cycle every day. So maybe they are strong, but they don’t want to cycle every day.
Jason Elkins (34:01.775)
because I’m in the program. You know, we’re doing a day trip into Seattle.
Jason Elkins (34:12.547)
Yeah.
Nancy (34:25.558)
to join the non-riding partner program. So they have that flexibility and I think that’s probably something fairly unique on a cycling tour program. And certainly, you know, some great feedback that we get certainly from couples and, you know, we’ve had mothers and daughters and fathers and sons and all types of combinations of people joining us where, you know, one person rides and one doesn’t or one rides a little bit, but not every day. So it’s a really nice thing to be able to share and create for people.
Jason Elkins (34:26.393)
to join.
Jason Elkins (34:35.61)
So, some great feedback that we get, certainly from couples and, you know, we’ve had mothers and daughters and fathers and sons and all the types of common acts that we’ve had.
Jason Elkins (34:53.465)
Do you have, suspect you have like say just hypothetical group. You’ve got 14 guests and would it be common to have maybe five or six of them or like hardcore? Like, are you kidding me? Why would I not want to ride today? I want to ride, ride, ride, ride, ride. And then you’ve got a few in the group that maybe take a couple of days off or you might even have one or two that just do the not. Did you say non rider? Non-cycler. What was, what did you call the package?
Nancy (35:19.788)
Yeah, non-writing partner program. Yeah, the non-writing partners. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (35:23.349)
the non-riding partner program. maybe you’ve got a couple of those. then because, you I’ve been around a while, if you can see the gray hair, I’ve been around a while and I’ve been with mixed groups. been, I worked in the fly fishing travel business for quite a while. So we’d get a lot of that. We’d quit, you know, one partner has to fish every day, all day. And then his partner
Maybe he goes snorkeling or bird watching or food cook, you know, a food class or something like that. And I don’t know if you want to say this, but I’m willing to say this oftentimes. Like I, I preferred hanging out with the, we call them non-fishing whatever, but no, you know, I used to hang out with them more because they were more fun. You know, it’s like they weren’t so caught up on, well, I caught this mini fish or I caught this big of a fish.
Nancy (36:06.092)
Yeah
Nancy (36:13.535)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (36:20.641)
and the people that weren’t there to fish were just so much more open to a wider variety of activities. So I’m curious, do you see that on some of your groups?
Nancy (36:26.274)
Yeah, so it’s really interesting, Jason, because, yeah, look, think if you’re a cyclist, like if you’re a fly fisherman, you probably that’s what you want to do every day. That’s why you’re there. So in the main, yes, most of our cyclists cycle every day and absolutely love it. That’s not to say that they don’t ask every morning, Nancy, what are you doing today? What’s on the non-riding partner program agenda for today? Because I think and this is
Jason Elkins (36:32.665)
Yeah, I think if you’re
Jason Elkins (36:38.625)
In the main, yes, most of us are.
not to say that they don’t ask every morning. What are you doing today? What’s on the non-writing partner program agenda for today? Because I think, and this is the really nice part of the tour is by having them come together and share their experience for the day. And often learn something new and cooking fun and sharing tips as well.
Nancy (36:52.67)
really nice part of the tour is by having the non-writing partner program we come together at night and people share their different experiences from the day and often they’ve learnt something new you know at a cooking class and so they’re sharing tips or they’ve been to you know a cheese producer and they’re or an olive oil producer and they’re teaching them the others about you know how olive oil is grown and or made. So yeah I think it creates a really nice exchange of conversation.
Jason Elkins (37:09.519)
Okay.
Nancy (37:18.514)
sometimes enough to convince a rider that they might want to have a day off the bike, but more so the cyclist stay on the bike, I have to say. But there are different tours, Jason, probably that lend itself to that a little bit more than others. And but what we’re seeing probably a little bit more of and actually we’re just about to rejig our dollar mines tour a little bit is people who are happy to cycle some days and also hike other days. And I think this is what’s given rise a little bit to our new tours where
People are saying, you know, I love, absolutely love riding. Do I want to ride 600 kilometres a week or 500 kilometres? You know, I’d be happy with probably 250 and maybe hike a couple of days and kayak a couple of days and experience the landscapes and the place in a different way. So we’ve created these new tours to suit that kind of more, what we would call an active adventurer. Someone who wants to be active every day, wants to be doing something, but not necessarily riding every day. But still catering to the riders.
Jason Elkins (38:04.239)
So we’ve created these mutuals to suit that kind of what we would call an active adventurer. Someone who wants to be active every day, wants to be doing something, but not necessarily for an ordinary day. Okay.
Nancy (38:17.358)
but it’s also catering to other people who have other interests. it’s also the way that those tours have been designed is also to give people the opportunity. So some writers to engage in things like cooking classes or olive oil producer visits or buffalo cheese mozzarella visits, know, that sort of thing. people are getting to experience a more rounded or have a more rounded experience of a place than maybe if they’re just writing.
Jason Elkins (38:22.723)
So some riders tune the day.
Jason Elkins (38:37.071)
people are getting to experience a more grounded experience.
And do you think that, I mean, obviously there was a strategic decision to go into doing these other types of tours. Was a big part of that, the couples that, you know, we’re kind of talking about as just maybe couples that want to go be active. One of them doesn’t necessarily feel the need to ride every day, but they can have a better mix of things that they can do together. Was that part of what was behind it?
Nancy (39:04.611)
Yeah.
Nancy (39:09.9)
Very much so, yeah. So we do find that there’ll often be couples where one is absolutely wants to ride every day and the other is happy to ride, but maybe not every day. So this gives them the option. So couples that have differing, I guess, interests, plus also small groups. Sometimes we have, you know, small groups of four to six people, friends traveling together or families. And they’re not all avid cyclists. You know, they have a mix of interests. So catering to those sort of smaller groups.
and some just solo travelers who just love to be active and love to be adventurous and doing different things and who do love to cycle, but maybe not every day. So it’s just about giving a few different options to people who do want to join us and join the type of tour that we create, but perhaps not cycle every day.
Jason Elkins (39:52.566)
Yeah, no, that makes makes completely sense. Because I would imagine even if you say we have a non writing partner program, did I get it right?
Nancy (40:06.22)
Yes, yes you do.
Jason Elkins (40:07.159)
So you can say we have that, but, I think people still like, this is a six day bicycling trip. And they just think, man, that’s a big commitment. What if my butt hurts after day two or whatever, whatever. And they maybe don’t, even though you tell them, Hey, if you take a day off from writing, you’re going to have an amazing time. They might not believe it because they’re like, no, it’s just like you either ride or you go hang out in the hotel or something.
Nancy (40:34.965)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (40:35.565)
But when you offer them a package that, that clearly says we’re going to do some paddling, some writings and this, some that, then maybe it’s just, they’re going to feel, well, here’s, here’s where I’m going with this. I was in the military, some guys and some women are very like, like to save face. And if they say, I’m going to ride, I’m going to go on this trip and I’m going to ride. And then day three, their butts sore.
they might feel like if they say to you, know what, Nancy, I’m gonna go with you today, that someone might criticize them, someone might judge them in their mind, they think that, you know, they’re wimping out or whatever. And where if you’ve got a trip that has a wider variety of things, they don’t have to say, you know what, my butt hurts, can I go with you, Nancy? Right? Is that, do you think that’s gonna come up?
Nancy (41:23.202)
Very true, Jason. That is so true. And I hadn’t thought about it from the psychology perspective, but that is so true. So I think one of the things that we see often is, and we have this kind of, there’s no shame with getting in the van. So for example, for a cyclist, because we have the support vehicle at the back, and someone might be on a ride and they’re not feeling great that day or they just had enough, it’s too hot or something’s not happening.
Jason Elkins (41:31.215)
you
Jason Elkins (41:48.237)
Hmm?
Nancy (41:49.656)
There’s no shame in getting in the van. Like there’s no shame for sitting out part of the ride. But there are some cyclists who absolutely will not get in the van. Doesn’t matter how much they’re hurting or just absolutely no way they’re getting in the van. Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s as much about proving it to themselves, I think. know, people come with a goal to these types of holidays, you know, and I think in their minds, you know, they feel like they may have failed if they don’t achieve what they set out.
Jason Elkins (42:00.207)
They’ll go be miserable for six days just so nobody thinks that they went out, right?
Nancy (42:17.4)
So I think part of the conversation on tour also talks to that because we often are talking to people about, know, don’t hurt yourself. Don’t, you know, there are options and ways to experience this in a different way. And we had a lady recently on our Tuscany tour who she had an injury coming into the tour and she didn’t know how she was going to be able to ride or whether she was going to be able to ride every day. And she couldn’t really ride much at all, but she had a wonderful time because she did join the non-riding partner program.
reframing that thinking to say, yes, of course you set out with a goal, but things do happen. On tour, pre tour, that can influence that. So it’s about coming with that open mind and open spirit. As we spoke about earlier, Jason, that sense of adventure to say, hey, there’s so many ways to experience this and just open your mind to it and you’ll have a great time.
Jason Elkins (43:10.977)
Very, cool. So tell us, I mean, you touched on some of that you mentioned, kayaking and stuff. So tell us a little bit more about what you’re doing on these new experiences that you’ve set up. cause maybe somebody’s listening to this, like, I don’t even want to get on a bike. That’s not my thing. Maybe, maybe they’ve already quit listening to this episode. If that’s them, maybe we should have discussed this sooner. But.
Nancy (43:34.572)
Ha ha.
Jason Elkins (43:35.843)
but let’s talk a little bit about some of those new experiences that you’re
Nancy (43:41.046)
Yeah, so each day during the day there’ll be two active experiences on offer. So usually a bike ride and a hike or a hike and a kayak. So a little bit mix up every day. I think on both tours there’s definitely five to six rides. So the riders and the cyclists who are our core, I guess, guests still have the option to ride every day. So guests will choose their own adventure if you like. So guests will choose whether they want to ride
Jason Elkins (43:42.671)
Each day during the day there will be two…
Jason Elkins (44:04.143)
So guests will choose their own adventure.
Nancy (44:09.32)
or four days or whether they want to do two of the hikes or whether they want to kayak. So some very special kayaking places that we’ll be in and you know we’ll be highly encouraged. I think the choice of location and choice of destinations for these tours as well, Jason was really important to us and they’re both coastal so they both offer this you know beautiful experience of
Right, and both in places where the mountains meet the sea. So both very beautiful in terms of all the various activities. So some of the hikes are into amazing gorges or canyons, some of the largest canyons in Europe. And the rides are both hilly and sometimes a little bit flatter. So there’s a range of experiences each day and guests will choose what their activity is each day. And then each afternoon, we’ll also…
Jason Elkins (44:47.535)
So they’re choosing, they’re choosing like day to day or is this something they kind of choose their own adventure fill out the menu before the trip or how much flexibility.
Nancy (45:03.53)
Yeah, before the trip, before the trip, mainly from the riding perspective, because I think the thing that we have mainly is the hiring of bikes. So 80 % of people who come on our tours would hire bikes through us. So we need to know if somebody’s going to be riding three days or five days, you know, how we’re going to structure that hiring arrangement and that sort of thing. So there’s some logistical elements that come into the program. So we will be asking guests beforehand. Of course, they’re not
held to that 100 % if they get on tour and decide that, I said I was going to ride today, but actually I’d prefer to hike. No problem at all. We’ll accommodate that. But I think going into the tour, it’s always good to know roughly what we’re dealing with each day so that we can structure the logistics around the group. So yeah.
Jason Elkins (45:48.963)
if they say, if they say, but if they say, Nope, I’m not gonna ride, I’m not into riding. But then by day two, they’re like, I’d like to go ride. You might have a logistic issue if you don’t have enough bicycles. All right. So okay, so that all right.
Nancy (45:59.192)
That might be a challenge, yes, yes. Yeah, so we definitely hire bikes pre-tour. So that’ll get sorted out pre-tour. The only other option is we will have the option sometimes if people wanted to do like a day of e-bike riding, for example, so they’re not particularly a rider. Yeah, so we will have that as an option. It’ll be very selective because it does come down to where we are located and also what we have access to in terms of providers for e-bikes.
Jason Elkins (46:09.251)
Yeah, the other option is we have to…
Jason Elkins (46:15.501)
I was going to ask you about that. Yeah.
Nancy (46:28.204)
So yeah, all of that will be worked out with the guests prior to the tour. So people will be able to choose their adventure each day. And then also from the cultural experience perspective.
Jason Elkins (46:38.127)
you have any?
Jason Elkins (46:41.795)
Right. Do you have any tours or any particular routes that somebody could do e-bike every day? If you had a couple going and one person’s, I’ll do, I’ll ride every day if it’s on an e-bike. Is that something you can do on some of the tours?
Nancy (46:55.958)
Yes, that is and certainly on the adventure tours and I think Jason, as I mentioned earlier and as much for the guests themselves, they still need to have a level of cycling experience because we are talking about fairly hilly terrain. So even on an e-bike, mean, people think, well, super easy, it’s an electric bike. You’re still having to pedal. So the bike’s a pedal assist and so you’re still having to pedal and you’re still having to put in some effort. Otherwise, you know, the battery won’t last the distance as we’re talking about.
Jason Elkins (47:08.793)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:13.615)
We’re still coming to…
Nancy (47:23.042)
So people still need to have an element of riding capability before coming on tour to enjoy that. And that’s why we do talk to people prior to the tour about their level of riding capability, particularly if they’re hiring e-bikes. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (47:23.567)
So people still need to have an OML.
Jason Elkins (47:36.929)
That was actually the next question I wanted to ask you is you mentioned we talked to them before the tour. So what is your typical process look like someone’s listening to this episode, they click on a link, they go to your website and they decide, you know what, I think I might like to do this. do you try and get them on some sort of video call or how, what does the process look like? What should somebody expect?
Nancy (48:01.132)
Yeah, so most people would come to our website, they’d hunt around the various tours and see that, you know, the various tours are quite different in terms of number of kilometres that we’re riding or the various activities are available and probably self-select one or two tours that they’re interested in. Generally opt in to receive a detailed itinerary from which then they receive a whole lot more information and detail.
Jason Elkins (48:19.887)
generally opt into.
Nancy (48:26.574)
And then generally, I would say 80 % of people engage with us and have questions for us that we engage with them either on email or through a video call or through a phone call, whatever suits them. And generally people are feeling quite comfortable after they’ve spoken to us or had enough exchange with us about what would be right for them. Because I think we can work out fairly quickly with them what would be the best fit.
the type of writing that they do or the type of, you know, level of kayaking they’re going to be doing and what have you. So I think that engagement pre-tour is really important. But in saying that, you know, 20 to 25 % of our guests just sign up and come on tour and you never hear from them and they turn up and they’re great writers. And, you know, it’s, I think people are a little bit more experienced perhaps at choosing these types of tours, are more confident in being able to say, yeah, look, you know, we know what that all means. And that that’s all very self-sufficient in terms of.
Jason Elkins (48:55.407)
you
think that engagement…
Jason Elkins (49:02.615)
I think people who are a little bit more experienced are choosing this.
Jason Elkins (49:17.679)
All right.
Nancy (49:20.898)
what I need to understand. yeah.
Jason Elkins (49:23.159)
Yeah. And there’s also different personality types. Some people are just like, you know what? We’ll figure it out. Whatever. This looks cool. I don’t need to know all the details. I’ll just book it. And I assume that, you know, and then a few days before their trip, they’re going through the packing list. maybe I need to go buy some of this. That that’s kind of, you know, somebody like myself. And then there’s other people that kind of really want to feel comfortable about all of that. Do you like, do you
Nancy (49:48.675)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (49:51.887)
Do you feel like it’s super helpful to like, guess where I’m going with this, would you encourage people to jump on a video call if they’re comfortable with that? And do you have sometimes when you just wish they would jump on a video call, but it’s hard to get them to do that for some reason. So what has your experience been?
Nancy (50:08.47)
Yeah, look, I don’t think we’ve ever had an experience where people don’t want to jump on a call. Like if we’re getting a sense that, you know, might be worth having a call here. And we suggest that most people will want that. They’re quite grateful for the opportunity, to be honest. I think we do encourage people. I think you find through the types of questions that people are asking, whether it’s in email, we also have a live chat on our website that we personally answer. So it’s answered when.
Italy’s not overnight in Italy and not overnight in Australia when we’re in Australia. So if we don’t get it straight away, we always send an email within 24 hours. So generally you’ll see from the type of inquiry and the type of questions where people are at and what sort of help they might need. as I said, look, most people are really well satisfied with a series of email exchanges and some love to have a call and we’re happy with either. So it just really depends. As you said, people are so different. There’s some people that
Jason Elkins (50:45.423)
Generally you’ll see from the top of the…
Jason Elkins (50:52.953)
Most people are really blind.
Jason Elkins (51:00.067)
Yeah.
Nancy (51:02.966)
really want to know all the detail and really want to understand everything before they get here, which it’s impossible to understand everything, but we try to give as much information as possible to help them feel comfortable. Sometimes it’s just that feeling of being anxious about, know, as I said earlier, probably the biggest concern people have is will I keep up with the group? Will I be fit enough? Will I be able to? And it’s about assuring people that, the way we manage the tour. I think we encourage people to read our testimonials as well, because we have a lot of testimonials.
people who have been on tour with us and count back that experience of having had the fear going into the tour and coming away feeling completely comfortable. it’s about just addressing those various inquiries from various different people and just helping people get through that process of making their decision.
Jason Elkins (51:41.415)
It’s about just a bit similar to our experience.
Jason Elkins (51:50.141)
Right, right. I want to ask you probably potentially the question you least like being asked, but I suspect you get asked often. It’s not, it’s my least favorite question when people ask me, but I’m going to ask you because I know people ask you and they might as well hear it here, here and now how you respond. Where’s your favorite place in Italy? Where should I go? Where’s your favorite place?
Nancy (52:14.912)
Yeah, I answer that quite openly and honestly and I say Campania, which is you know, Naples and all that surrounding area. My mum’s from there, so maybe I’m a little bit biased, but I just have an absolute affinity with that whole region. I think we just launched a tour, one of our adventure tours is in the region, which we’re really excited about, Jason.
I just I love the food. The food is really just simple, authentic, great food. When you think great Italian food, you’re generally thinking of some things, some of the produce that comes out of Campania. It’s clean, it’s healthy. It’s a home of the Mediterranean diet. So for me, I have a very natural affinity. It’s also coastal. So the water is amazing and the beaches and the whole experience of being there is amazing. And then I think Napoli is just an amazing place. And I
Jason Elkins (52:40.035)
So the food is really just simple and authentic, right? When you get right into it, it’s generally.
Jason Elkins (52:51.951)
and the Mediterranean. For me, I have a very natural community. It’s also coastal, so the water is amazing.
Jason Elkins (53:03.407)
And then I think that was just fun.
Nancy (53:05.688)
Probably as a personality, having a mum who’s from there and feeling quite strongly connected to the place. I love being there. I feel like I have my mum’s voice in my ear. So yeah, definitely a clear winner for me. But that’s not to say that there aren’t many places other, where my dad comes from is pretty amazing too. He comes from some small islands off Sicily called the Aeolian Islands, which are starting to get quite a lot of.
Jason Elkins (53:07.119)
Wow!
Nancy (53:30.542)
press lately and I’m a bit worried about that because they’ve been such a little haven for so long. But no, they’re very, very beautiful islands. And so I guess I have an affinity with the places that are my heritage. look, I think the beauty of Italy is that every place is so different and every place has so much to offer that from the food and wine to the landscapes to the people, it’s so different. So that’s why Damien and I said we really don’t need to go elsewhere because we can create so many different experiences within one country.
Jason Elkins (53:31.309)
Yes, lately, and I’m a worried about that. It’s been such a big haven for so long, but no, they’re very, very beautiful. So I guess I have an affinity with the places that have my community of choice. Look, I think the beauty of Italy is that every place is so different.
So that’s why David and I said we really don’t need to go elsewhere because we can create so many different
Nancy (53:59.702)
It sets the beauty of Italy.
Jason Elkins (54:01.837)
I think, I think he just earned some points with anybody that’s listening to this because that was so easy for you to answer. So just like, yep, this is my favorite place. And I think, oftentimes, well, you know, the responses and I’m guilty of it myself. Well, it really depends on what do you like? Where do you like to go? What kinds of things do you like to do? And which can kind of come across as evasive when we do that. There’s some truth to it, obviously.
Nancy (54:20.472)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (54:30.733)
But, I think how you answered that anybody listen to this is like, okay, she’s not hedging her bets. She’s just being completely transparent and, and open about where she likes and why she likes it. That doesn’t mean that one of your guests is necessarily going to feel the same draw to that area. If their mom’s not from there, or if they don’t feel like mom is, you know, sitting there next to them, eating this good food and chatting with them. so kudos to you for that. I was impressed by how well you answered that. That was very cool.
Nancy (54:49.225)
Exactly. Yeah.
Nancy (54:56.78)
Yeah, thank you. yeah, no, I’m very clear about that one. But I think the question we do get asked as well is which tour do you like the best? That’s probably a little bit more difficult and probably one where I do say, gee, they’re all so different. And they really are. They’re so different. But yeah, yeah. However, I am very open in saying I’m definitely a I’m definitely a southern Italy girl, Jason. I’m definitely a southerner.
Jason Elkins (55:04.235)
I think the question that did get asked is which tour do you like the best? That’s probably a little bit more difficult and probably one that as you say, D, they’re also different. Right. And you developed them, right? You developed them because you thought they’d be great. That’s a…
Jason Elkins (55:25.487)
Yeah. All right. Well, I have not been. Yep. I’ve heard that from a lot of people and it’s something that I need to do. So what is your season? mean, you mentioned about six, seven months in Italy, six, seven in Australia. So what is the season that your clients are able to come visit you?
Nancy (55:26.38)
Yeah, my heart’s in the South.
Yeah, well you must come.
Nancy (55:45.856)
Yeah, yeah, so our tours start in May, generally the first or second week of May and then continue through until October, early October. And I think what we’re starting to see, Jason, is the weather and the climate and everything sort of moving back a little in Italy. I think it’s worldwide actually, but I think we’re going to see that we’ll be extending the season into more into October as well as we move forward because the weather is just superb and
autumn is sort of kicking in a little bit later in the year. yeah, think very much May to October is the season for the tours. And we take August off because August is just way too hot and too busy to be running. Yeah, too busy to run tours. It’s just, yeah, it’s chaos on the road. So we have a bit of a break through August and reconvene in September.
Jason Elkins (56:14.863)
So yeah, thank you very much.
Is there? You just answered the next question. Yep, OK, I was good.
Jason Elkins (56:37.071)
All that’s very cool. I think anybody that’s listening to this has a pretty good kind of idea of why they need to reach out to you if they’re interested in this type of thing. So we’re going to have, you know, your website link in the show notes. Anybody’s listening, go take a look at it. We also have some tour operators and travel agents and stuff like that. Do you work with other tour operators and travel agents? What should we, what should our listeners know about that?
Nancy (56:59.938)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so look, I think probably more ad hoc than in a structured way. So we have a number of travel agents that recommend guests to us often because we do a lot of our marketing directly and often because we’re tapping into a cycling community and adventure travel sort of community. They tend to find information themselves online, so often we’ll take it to their travel agent. But yeah, we’re happy to work with travel agents and other tour operators who might have complementary.
Jason Elkins (57:07.087)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (57:18.799)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy (57:29.26)
offerings.
Jason Elkins (57:30.829)
I’m curious because this is something, you know, I mentioned that I worked in the fly fishing travel and quite, it’s kind of an affinity group. we would oftentimes work with a fly shop, for example, that has a group of local clients and they say, Hey, we’re going to Belize. We’re going to go or to Patagonia and they would put together a group. I suspect that works pretty well. If we’ve got somebody listening right now, that’s maybe a member of a bicycling club or has a bicycling shop somewhere.
Nancy (57:42.019)
Mm.
Jason Elkins (58:00.715)
Is that, I suspect that’s fairly common for you, right?
Nancy (58:04.908)
Yeah, absolutely, Jason. So we do private group tours. So often we’ll have like we have one that’s just booked in for next year who they’re a cycling club of women and they’ve been on tour with us last year and they’re coming back next year. yeah, we put together a private group experience so it can be one of our current destinations that we already run and they take over that tour or we can set aside a different date and a different destination and create a tour. So yeah, very much work with
private group experiences, minimum 10 to 12 people need to be part of that group to join us for a private experience. And yeah, we love creating those types of experiences.
Jason Elkins (58:33.999)
very much for five of those experiences, minimum of 10 to 12 people.
Jason Elkins (58:45.187)
Yeah, I suspect so. We’ve discussed a bunch of things. And I’m curious, what did I forget to ask you or what should I have asked you? do Nancy, what do you want to make sure that our listeners know about either you, Italy, Italians, cycling, adventure tours, whatever. What, what do we need to make sure and share with them before we wrap it up?
Nancy (58:46.999)
Yeah.
Nancy (59:09.196)
Yeah, Jason, I think probably the thing that I want to make sure and hope came across is that both Damien and I are very much passionate about Italy and love living here. And I think probably the thing that we pride ourselves on the most is how we tap into and create a very different sort of experience of a place for our groups and one that is closely connected to the local community and the local culture. And we always just want people to walk away feeling that they’ve
Jason Elkins (59:10.489)
think probably the thing.
Jason Elkins (59:21.603)
think probably the thing.
Nancy (59:37.784)
had a wonderful experience, not just with their fellow travellers, but a wonderful experience of that particular region that they’ve selected. So I hope that’s come across today. And that’s something that we really love doing, I think, in our heart and soul, creating experiences for people and sharing them is what makes us tick. So hopefully that’s come across.
Jason Elkins (59:41.423)
not just before.
Jason Elkins (59:48.431)
something that we really love doing. think in our heart and soul creating experiences and sharing them is what makes us tick. So hopefully that’s in next one. I think it definitely has come across and I will share with our listeners because they don’t have, know, unless they may be watching a video of this, for those of you that haven’t been able to see your face, before I record you’d mentioned that you’d been out with the group all day.
Nancy (01:00:12.003)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:00:13.815)
and you came into the room ready to go, ready to have this conversation and you’ve been smiling the entire time. And that says a lot about you and what you’re doing because if you were out with guests all day today and then you came and shared some time with me to discuss your work more and you’re still smiling at this point, I don’t know, I didn’t see you drinking any wine as we were having this conversation. Maybe that’s part of it. But I just, see the look in your face and the energy you bring.
Nancy (01:00:36.385)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:00:42.991)
I’ve worked with a lot of tour operators. I’ve been with a lot of guides and a lot of group trips and yeah, anybody that’s listening to this, you need to reach out to Nancy because she’s got the energy and you’re going to be super happy when you get to Italy and she’s there to meet you. So thanks for coming on. I appreciate you. Thanks so much, Sean. I really appreciate that. Yeah, I will. Let’s find some projects to work on or I’ll come have to visit you in Italy at some point soon. And until then, thank you so much.
Nancy (01:00:59.042)
Thanks so much, Jason. Really appreciate that.
Nancy (01:01:10.082)
Definitely. Thank you, Jason. Thanks so much.
Jason Elkins (01:01:12.536)
Bye bye.
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