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Episode #129: Nicole Dane

Founder

Heart of India Travel

Episode #129: Nicole Dane
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Guest Bio

Nicole Dane is the founder of Heart of India Travel and Bharatvaas Travels, two interconnected travel companies offering immersive and sustainable journeys across India. Through Heart of India Travel (B2C) and Bharatvaas Travels (B2B), Nicole has created experiences that are both transformative for travelers and beneficial for local communities. With over three years of hands-on experience and spending up to eight months each year in India, Nicole leads both agencies with a deep commitment to cultural preservation, community support, and responsible tourism.

Heart of India Travel provides authentic, small-group journeys that connect travelers with India’s vibrant traditions, crafts, and people. Tours are offered in English, French, and Dutch, with full guest support available in all three languages throughout each trip. Signature offerings include wellness-focused journeys with yoga experiences, women-only tours, and photography adventures that immerse guests in local life. Every hotel, itinerary, and experience is personally tested by Nicole to ensure quality and authenticity.

Nicole also leads Bharatvaas Travels, a B2B platform that collaborates with global travel agencies to design tailor-made and small-group itineraries. The offerings mirror those of Heart of India Travel, with a focus on sustainability (including a Travelife certification in progress), cultural depth, and special-interest themes such as wildlife, festivals, wellness, and heritage. Both companies emphasize low-impact travel and work with local artisans, guides, and conservation partners to ensure meaningful impact on the ground.

Starting next summer, Nicole will introduce seasonal travel specials during the green season in Rajasthan and Gujarat. These trips will highlight local crafts, arts, and homestay experiences at affordable rates, supporting community livelihoods while giving travelers the chance to experience India at its most lush and peaceful time of year.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Nicole about her inspiring journey from Europe to India and how a single sabbatical turned into a lifelong mission to reshape travel through authenticity and connection. Nicole shares what it’s like to spend most of the year living in India, building two travel companies that focus on meaningful cultural immersion and social impact.

Nicole and Jason discuss how tourism can empower underrepresented communities, support local economies, and challenge outdated perceptions of safety and poverty in India. Nicole reflects on the personal transformations travel can inspire and encourages listeners to venture beyond the usual tourist circuits to discover the true richness of India’s people and landscapes. They also touch on post-COVID mental health, the role of deep listening in travel, and her evolving mission to promote wellness and sustainability through every itinerary.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Bharatvaas Travels simplifies travel logistics for international agencies operating in India
  • ✓ Nicole’s journey to India began with an unexpected sabbatical and evolved into a lifelong calling
  • ✓ Traveling in India teaches the value of surrendering control and embracing spontaneity
  • ✓ Media portrayals of India as unsafe often miss the reality of local warmth and hospitality
  • ✓ Cultural differences influence perceptions of safety, comfort, and communication
  • ✓ Responsible tourism can directly support villages, preserving crafts and creating local jobs
  • ✓ Wellness—including yoga and mindful travel—is central to Nicole’s tour experiences
  • ✓ Women-only and photography tours are standout offerings for immersive travel
  • ✓ Nicole advocates for understanding poverty in context and listening deeply when traveling
  • ✓ New summer tours will feature farm stays, local arts, and green-season beauty in Rajasthan and Gujarat

What You’ll Find on Heart of India Travel

  • ✓ Small-group journeys designed around cultural immersion and sustainability
  • ✓ Full guest support in English, French, and Dutch throughout every trip
  • ✓ Wellness-focused itineraries including yoga and mindful travel experiences
  • ✓ Special-interest group tours: women-only, photography, wildlife, and crafts
  • ✓ Seasonal offerings during the green season that support local artisans and homestays
  • ✓ Responsible travel that empowers communities and protects cultural heritage

Learn more about Heart of India Travel and connect with Nicole at:

https://heartofindiatravel.com/

Learn more about Nicole’s DMC at https://bharatvaastravels.com/

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Podcast Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.

Jason Elkins (00:01.881)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Very excited today. I have a fascinating guest. name is Nicole Dane. Nicole is the founder of Bharatvaas Travels and Heart of India Travel. Nicole, did I say Bharatvaas close enough to being right?

Nicole Dane (00:20.494)
Absolutely. I wouldn’t do it better.

Jason Elkins (00:22.067)
All right, very cool. We practiced a little bit. Well, it’s not that hard, but I always like to try and get it right when we first come into the conversation. So where are you today? Where are you sitting as we’re recording this conversation?

Nicole Dane (00:33.884)
Yeah.

Nicole Dane (00:39.63)
And at this moment, I’m in Udaipur in Rajasthan, India. And I live there since two months now. So I have kind of a base. I’ve lived for two years in and around Jaipur. But I was traveling quite a bit. So I stayed there, I think, in those two years for about six or seven months.

Jason Elkins (00:47.862)
okay.

Nicole Dane (01:01.644)
And now it’s the same thing with what I pour. I’m here since two months, but I’m going to travel a lot around from the 2nd of October. So I won’t be here a lot, but at least I have my home place where I can just unpack my baggage and just fill when it’s necessary. So it’s nice.

Jason Elkins (01:19.018)
It’s nice to have that, isn’t it? And we’re going to discuss more about kind of your journey from where you were to where you are now. But before we do that, let’s give our listeners kind of an opportunity to just get their head around what is Bharatvaas? Bharatvaas travels and Heart of India travels. So maybe give us the 30 to 60 second elevator pitch for Bharatvaas first, and then we’ll speak about Heart of India.

Nicole Dane (01:41.282)
is.

Yes, so Bharatvaas Travels is my DMC. And I started this up after setting up Heart of India Travel. And the reason I started this up is to make business easier for foreign companies who wants to offer itineraries through India, and especially in a few states. And

I do all the itineraries, I travel them myself and I know all the hotel owners, I stayed at each hotel. So this is the opportunity for travel agencies to work together directly with a French, English and Dutch speaking agency in India, located in India.

Jason Elkins (02:28.409)
I’m happy you clarified that. You did a great job explaining that. Maybe we should have started with what is hard of India travels first because it sounds like it led into Bharatvaas. But one thing you mentioned, and I want to make sure our listeners maybe that aren’t as familiar with the lingo, you mentioned DMC. But you kind of explained what that is. DMC is kind of the person on the ground.

that deals with maybe the people that are selling the trips overseas, whether that’s a travel agent, an outbound tour operator, they tend to want to work with somebody on the ground that’s got the personal connections and all that stuff. So that’s, did I describe what a DMC is pretty well? Okay. I think it’s destination management company for anybody that really cares what that stands for.

Nicole Dane (03:08.674)
Yes. Yes.

Nicole Dane (03:14.21)
Yeah, I mostly say just B2B, business to business. that’s so Brad West Travels is my business to business company.

Jason Elkins (03:18.769)
business.

Jason Elkins (03:22.759)
Let me ask, because business to business also, there’s another big segment and I’m curious if it’s something you are doing as well as kind of that mice trial, all the meetings, incentives. I’m drawing a blank. So working with businesses to maybe send, to put together a conference, a C, conference and events or, because I suspect if a company was listening to this and said, hey, we want to take a.

do some business meetings in India somewhere. I suspect you’d love to chat with them as well, wouldn’t you? Yeah, all right, very cool. So now let’s, I’m not sure after that we need to say, tell everybody what is heart of India travel, but let’s, I’m sure there’s some things that I don’t wanna leave for people to use their imagination. So what is heart of India travel?

Nicole Dane (03:54.807)
Exactly.

Nicole Dane (04:13.228)
Heart of India Travel is a business to customers agency located in Europe, but operating locally. located in Europe, I did that because of the insurance and all the things people are used to get from a European agency with local expertise.

I’m still operating directly, doing business directly with Baradwas Travels, who is the DMC, my DMC as well. So I have the contacts directly with the local entrepreneurs, but operating from the Netherlands because of all those insurances and because for people often it feels more safe to handle with European travel agencies instead of the local ones in India.

Jason Elkins (05:08.327)
So what I hear you saying, I hope this doesn’t offend anybody that’s listening to this, but what I hear you saying is if you’re European and you can book your trip to India through a European company that has a lot of the same safeguards and business practices and procedures in place, but then they still have the benefit of working with a company that actually you’re in India. I mean, realistically, right?

Nicole Dane (05:33.902)
Yes, so yes, and I think that the main reason is because of I don’t know how I say this word in English, but if people book with me and they need to pay an advance of 25 % within two weeks and their itinerary or their holiday would be within six months and something happens with my company, they will be insured that they will get their money back.

And you don’t have this practice in India. So if they book directly with my Indian company, they will have a risk if something happens with my company that they will lose their money. So I don’t think something will happen with my company, but it’s for some people, it gives some more insurance. Exactly. Yes.

Jason Elkins (06:19.645)
gives them the peace of mind that, hey, we’re not just booking with somebody, fly by night operation that we may never hear from again. So, all right, very, very cool. So now that we’ve kind of set the stage for what you’re doing, we’re gonna discuss more of it when we get back to this point, but I wanna go back and figure out how did Nicole end up living and working in India? Cause I’m guessing…

Nicole Dane (06:29.11)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (06:47.791)
based on our conversations, based on your accent, stuff like that. It didn’t all start in India. So how far back do we need to go to kind of get a feel for how you ended up there?

Nicole Dane (06:58.798)
So it was in 2019, I decided to have a sabbatical because my kids were grown up and I sold my apartment. So I thought I had a quite a difficult time before that. And I wanted to travel for a half year. And don’t ask me how I ended up in India because it was never on my bucket list. And I have

Jason Elkins (07:19.313)
You didn’t wait a minute, wait a minute. So you’re not one of those women that watched Eat, Pray, Love and thought I’m gonna do a six month sabbatical and I’m gonna start it in India or Italy or something like that. No? Okay.

Nicole Dane (07:26.862)
No, no, absolutely not. No, I had that wish to go to Asia and I don’t know why I choose for India. And so people warned me that India is dangerous and it’s dirty and the deli belly. So I thought, okay, if I go there, I need to go by a group tour because it will not be safe for me alone. So that’s I booked a group tour and that got canceled.

I think one month before the itinerary. And I thought, my gosh, what am I going to do now? So I booked a taxi because the start of my trip was in Rajasthan. So I booked a taxi, all my hotels for two and a half months, and I was pretty in control. But I arrived in India and I just mentioned that it was not that dangerous. And I got in touch with

very kind people from the beginning. And the food was just amazing. So after two weeks of traveling, I thought, you know what, all those sexies, I’m done with it. I’m just going to travel on my own. And I took local buses, local trains. I start eating street food because the first two weeks after that, I only have to eat in the hotels because it’s dangerous. And I start enjoying India and I canceled all my hotels and I just thought, okay, just live in the moment and see what happens.

In fact, I had the most two and a half amazing months of my life there. And I was so impressed about the country, the people, the culture. And at the other side, I was also in shock about the difference between rich and poor in India. And after this sabbatical, I thought I want to go back to India because…

I had that impression that I had 50 years of a very good life. I grown up in South of France, that’s why I have that French accent maybe you noticed. And I thought, you know, it’s my, don’t have to take care of my kids anymore and it’s time to do something for the world. I need to do something. So I started to find out how I could do that, but my boss didn’t want to give me another sabbatical, which I understand. So I, yeah.

Jason Elkins (09:42.643)
Nicole, well, while we’re on that, I would love to hear a little bit more about kind of what you were doing before. It kind of helps set the stage for, because I heard you say, you know, things were challenging. I’d been responsible for kids and this and that, and I finally had my chance to go do my thing. So let’s help kind of our listeners.

understand what was going on. mean, what did you like? So let’s go back to childhood. When was the earliest time that you remember thinking maybe you wanted to travel? Or did you ever think about that? Or what did you want to do when you were a kid?

Nicole Dane (10:16.096)
Yes, so as a kid I wanted to be a pilot or a doctor. But what happened is that my parents decided to move from one country to another quite often and we moved from one house and one place to another. And I remember after the last moving from France to the Netherlands, I was 15, I had to go to the Dutch school again, but I never

went to Dutch school, so I didn’t know how to write Dutch. And at that time, my whole scholarship screwed up because each time we moved from one country to the other, I had to skip classes or go back in classes because of the language barrier. So we ended up back in the Netherlands when I was 21. And I wanted to see the world. So I started as a flight attendant because I screwed up my

My studies because

Jason Elkins (11:14.323)
It’s hard to prepare yourself to get accepted into medical school if you’re moving every few years and learning new languages. And yeah, I get that, okay?

Nicole Dane (11:22.388)
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. And it was also because when I was 18, my parents divorced. And at that time, I had a very difficult time with my mom. So we didn’t have the finance to go to school and that kind of thing. So I started working. And once we were back in the Netherlands, I said, okay, I’m going to work as a flight attendant. so I did what I had to do to get some

certificates and that kind of things. And I started working as a flight attendant and then I met the father of my children and I got pregnant. So I stopped working as a flight attendant.

Jason Elkins (12:03.719)
That happens. I’m curious though, before we go any further, what did your mother think of you becoming a flight attendant? Were people in your life supportive about that or did you even care? Because I think sometimes when you say, I’m going to go travel the world, sometimes you get pushback, sometimes people are like, please go, you need to get out of here. What kind of response did you get?

Nicole Dane (12:23.564)
Yeah.

The response was good. In fact, I just lived my life and I was used to do that for years already when I was a young kid. they never said anything about it in this time of my life. Later on, when I got divorced, the first thing I said is, I’m going to be a flight attendant again after 10 years. And at that time, people had some critical…

criticism about what I was doing because being a flight attendant and having children, that was quite some complicated. But I did it.

Jason Elkins (12:56.051)
Mmm.

Jason Elkins (13:04.624)
I guess that’s where there’s that kind of mindset that you gotta go do those things when you’re young because once you’ve got the family. So as a 21 year old, it’s probably, yeah, great, you should go do that. But when you’re in your 30s and you’ve got kids, all of a expectations on all levels change. Whether you can do it or not, whether you believe that it’s good for your kids or not, other people are gonna have a tendency to wanna chime in because they have their own ideas, right? Yeah.

Nicole Dane (13:31.212)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (13:33.019)
How long did you work before you met your husband, your ex-husband? How long were you working before you met him?

Nicole Dane (13:40.462)
Yeah.

Nicole Dane (13:45.058)
I just started as a flight attendant, so I just did one season.

Jason Elkins (13:46.387)
Oh, geez. So you didn’t get a chance to get it out of your system. That’s the problem. I can relate to that. I’ve been there, done that.

Nicole Dane (13:53.342)
Exactly, exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (14:00.467)
Very cool. So anyway, so they were supportive in the beginning. Once you had kids and all of a sudden you were single again and you thought I’m gonna go back to being a flight attendant, you got some pushback. What did you ultimately decide?

Nicole Dane (14:13.646)
So I did it and I started studying again because being flight attendant was one part of who I am. But at the other side, I also need to do something. I always worked in mental health care or just in elderly health care. So I thought, OK, I need to… I didn’t finish my studies.

Jason Elkins (14:32.637)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (14:40.04)
And at that time I was used to Dutch and to write a little Dutch with a lot of mistakes, but it was starting. So I started my study again and I was working as a flight attendant. So the first year full time. then I got to work part time and did my study next to the work. And in 2011, the company where I was working for was took in over by KLM and

I didn’t like KLM because it was a too big company and I’m a personal person and I need to be in contact and connection with people and it was too big. So I decided to stop. And so I finished my study and I didn’t know because I studied psychology and I had no idea what I will do. And at that time I met a new partner and he had an addiction.

So that’s how I rolled in addiction care.

Jason Elkins (15:41.111)
That’s perfect for somebody that’s studying psychology. I think those of us that are interested in psychology tend to find interesting people to share our lives with, don’t we? All right. So you got into that. So you graduated with a degree in psychology and…

Nicole Dane (15:44.716)
Yes!

Nicole Dane (15:52.012)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Dane (15:59.725)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (16:06.311)
got into working with addiction care. Is that right? Did I hear that right? Okay.

Nicole Dane (16:09.004)
Yes. And yeah, and I still work in addiction care for two days a week because I need the balance of two worlds. And I need also the depth of of speaking with people, understanding their emotions and trying to help them find solutions for themselves. So yeah, I’m enjoying both worlds.

Jason Elkins (16:12.807)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (16:32.891)
Well, and there’s a pretty strong synergy between psychology and tourism, both in the sales aspect as far as arranging itineraries that are going to help people. People tend to go on vacation because they need a break from what they’re doing. So it seems like there’s a lot of synergy there. I’m sure you use that quite a bit in your travel business.

Nicole Dane (16:49.323)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (16:54.828)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (16:57.913)
as well. Now, right off the bat, were you meeting with clients in person? Were you restricted to a particular physical location in order to do that? Because that was back before we were all doing therapy sessions online, I think.

Nicole Dane (17:11.754)
Exactly. I think in this way, COVID for me was something good what happened now afterwards, because during COVID, we couldn’t see that most of the patients face to face, only the more severe cases, we had to see them on location and we went to the locations at that time. But because of that, the company started to do more and more online consultations because of the waiting lists in the Netherlands.

to get some mental health care. And so now we build up a new part of the company and I’m working in that now.

Jason Elkins (17:50.067)
Because there were a couple of things that kind of came together with that was number one, if physically it’s difficult to meet with people in person, but then also there’s an increased demand for people that need to meet with somebody. So you take the, you know, cause I mean, I remember I was there. That was, I think that a lot of people were furloughed and laid off. don’t think a lot of mental health workers were laid off.

Nicole Dane (18:05.727)
Yes!

Jason Elkins (18:18.647)
or Furloughed, think they were working a lot of overtime during that time. So you take those two things bring together and the system has to adapt. And that’s why, you know, that’s why it sounds like you ended up doing a lot more of this stuff remotely. when you started, well, don’t, you tell me where the best place to pick up is, but I heard you say you were doing a lot of stuff in person before COVID, COVID happened. It changed the way you met with your clients.

Nicole Dane (18:22.051)
Yeah.

Nicole Dane (18:33.366)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (18:48.357)
And for a lot of people, changed the way they looked at the world and thought about what they wanted to do with their lives. I’m suspecting it probably happened with you as well. And that’s why we’re talking today.

Nicole Dane (18:57.678)
No, I think it started before COVID. It started in India. Everything started in India. And I knew before COVID because my India trip was just before COVID and I had to leave my sabbatical or break down my sabbatical because of COVID. But at that time it already started changing because I saw I changed a lot during this trip in India.

When you talk about control, I was an enormous control freak and perfectionist and things had to happen how I wanted them to happen. And when you travel in India, you can’t, you just have to surrender. So it changed my way of thinking. And I think, so at that time it already started and I had that view of what I would like to do, but.

COVID as well in the Netherlands, or after COVID, I mentioned that during COVID people were staying at home, they were staying with their family, the social network became smaller and smaller. And the years after COVID, I still lived for two years in the Netherlands, no, one year in the Netherlands after COVID. And I was starting to feel lonely because…

No one came out and things changed in the Netherlands after COVID. And I think this is one of the reasons I feel so good here because here you never feel lonely. Sometimes you just have that, please, I need some time for myself now, you know?

Jason Elkins (20:33.715)
I have not been to India, but I’ve heard that. And actually something you said was very fascinating because you said you’re kind of a control freak. But then I also remember you sharing how, you know, your group trip fell apart and you ended up just going. And then within a couple of weeks, I think you said within a couple of weeks, you were like taking buses and trains by yourself and doing this whole solo woman traveler in India thing, which

sounds like the opposite of what a control freak would do. So how do you think that happened? Other than just India being fascinating, mean, were you just at a point where your life where you just didn’t, you just wanted to let go of that control and just go with the flow for a little while? Okay. All right. Cause, cause I.

Nicole Dane (21:17.068)
Yes, yes, yeah, exactly. yeah. And in fact, this is how I live now here in India, and it’s just amazing.

Jason Elkins (21:30.439)
But you’ve got the two days a week that you’ve got to actually show up for your client calls. And of course, you’ve got travelers and people interested in booking trips and stuff like that. So you’ve got to have some sense of organizational skills, obviously. But I’ve been traveling full time for about four years now. And sometimes I’m trying to explain to my family that, you know,

Nicole Dane (21:35.49)
Yes, yes.

Jason Elkins (21:59.121)
when I’m in these places, if I need some, I’m gonna just say the word stimulation, psychological stimulation, or you could use the word chaos, you could use the word dopamine, there’s a lot of different words we could use. But it’s all I generally have to do is walk out the front door and decide, am I gonna go left or right? Because I’m gonna see something that’s interesting and new and…

Nicole Dane (22:19.863)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (22:26.205)
there’s it’s so close to be able to just go get that when you need it. Where when I’m visiting family back in Arizona, you I lived in Arizona for six or seven years. There’s not too many surprises when you walk out the door. It’s like you might see a coyote, but other than that, you know, it’s it’s it’s pretty consistent. So and I suspect India is probably that times 10 as far as just the opportunities.

Nicole Dane (22:44.618)
Yeah

Nicole Dane (22:52.482)
it’s

Jason Elkins (22:56.467)
So anyway, so control freak, you say, okay, I need to make a change. You end up in India as a solo traveler, a couple of months, right before COVID. COVID comes around, changes a lot of things. You mentioned it changed the Netherlands, but I think it changed in a lot of places. And then that feeling of just, geez, I’m kind of lonely. I I doubt there’s…

I doubt there’s anybody listening to this that can’t relate to that for that period of time. Okay. So how did you go from, I’m lonely. They’re not going to give me another sabbatical to where you are.

Nicole Dane (23:36.312)
So I thought in the worst case, I sell my apartment and I’ll have some savings and I’ll travel two, three years in India. I’ll do some voluntary work because in the meantime, I met Marianne from the key of education and she had some projects all over the world. And I thought, you know what, in the worst case, I will do that and we’ll see what happens. And so.

Jason Elkins (24:02.225)
So this was, but this was a thought of like volunteer traveling. wasn’t, you weren’t quite at the point of I’m going to start a travel business. You’re just, I’m going to sell my, I’m going to sell my stuff, go to India and find interesting things is what I heard you say.

Nicole Dane (24:11.157)
No, that happened

Nicole Dane (24:17.486)
Exactly. Yes. And I thought it will take two, three years. And I resigned my job as well. But something special happened because after a few months when I was in India, I looked at my bank app and I said, what’s happening? Why am I getting celery? So I asked them, they said, yes, you have a contract of four hours a week. Okay.

So at that time I started working again and now I work for 19 hours for the company. So I have the basics to cover my cost of living in India. But at the first place I thought I’m just going to do some voluntary work. I’m going to write about India because I would like to show people how India really is. Because when it comes to publications, you say, in Europe, India’s

always on the negative way in the news. And I live here for two years. I eat street food. I eat everything. I never had the deli deli.

Jason Elkins (25:22.053)
I was going to ask you that, but I wasn’t sure how to pose the question without sounding a little. So I’m happy you brought that up. Maybe our listeners need to hear that. And I’m just curious what you’re because you’re so familiar with India and you’re obviously aware that there’s some stereotypes and stuff that maybe we’ve read in blog posts or YouTube videos or whatever. Why do you think that is? you that so many writers or so many people?

Nicole Dane (25:26.337)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (25:51.983)
It seems like they focus on that, or is that just what we hear because that’s what we’re programmed to hear? You know what I’m saying? Kind of that cognitive bias or whatever, or the reticular activating system that like, if when you were young, you decided that India was dangerous and dirty, whenever you see an article that says India is dangerous and dirty, you use it to reinforce your beliefs you already have.

Nicole Dane (26:00.717)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (26:11.65)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (26:18.735)
And you ignore all the publications that talk about, my gosh, this place is amazing. Is that the deal? Sounds like it, right? Yeah.

Nicole Dane (26:18.911)
Absolutely.

Nicole Dane (26:25.592)
I think so, Yeah, because you know, in the beginning I was scared as well and you know, I use my common sense. So I don’t go out, but I didn’t go out in the Netherlands as well after 11 walking in narrow streets on my own. So I never do it here, but I never felt unsafe. It’s safe and even like a few days ago, I was walking in a narrow street. It was on daytime, it was raining.

Jason Elkins (26:45.138)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (26:51.726)
people just stop to ask me, do you need a lift? Can I help you with something? But I think on one side it’s because of the negative publicity and because India maybe was dangerous or the food was not safe 20, 30 years ago. That plays in the mind of people. But…

I think it’s also, no, I lost what I wanted to say.

Jason Elkins (27:26.269)
Well, maybe this will help jog your memory on that train of thought. But I’m just also thinking India is a really big country, geographically, but also when you just look at the population. So it’s.

Nicole Dane (27:26.54)
gosh, it was like.

Jason Elkins (27:44.286)
there are bound to be things that happen. know, there are unsafe places everywhere in the world. But when you put that many people together, I’m not saying that it increases the rates of violent crime as much as just the number of violent crimes. So if my job is to get people to click on news articles in their social feed, and I’ve determined that you know what?

Nicole Dane (27:59.373)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (28:03.042)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (28:14.131)
tragic stories of kidnapping and rape and murder are what gave people the click. And I decide, you know what, I’m interested in India. There’s a lot of people in India. You’re not going to have to look that hard to find stuff because there’s so many people.

Nicole Dane (28:32.14)
Yes, yes. And I remember what I wanted to say is one of the things I think that impresses people a lot is that Indian people are very curious. And especially when you go to the more remote areas, some locals never have seen foreigners. So people stare at you. But that’s because of curiosity. And it’s not like this summer I was in the south of France. That’s where I grown up.

Jason Elkins (28:52.467)
I’ve heard that.

Nicole Dane (29:01.042)
And my cousin still lives there and she told me, you know, if you have any jewelry, don’t worry because you get raped in or grabbed in the supermarket. They take everything off. Here I just walk all the time on the streets with my jewelry. I’m not afraid for a second. In France, I have to leave them at home.

Jason Elkins (29:23.859)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (29:24.32)
So, and I think there’s a big difference between states because people talk about India, but India is a continent. And one state is not the other state. And for me, until now, the states I have visited and I have even visited Bihar, what is one of the most poorest states and Uttarakhand is well known as unsafe. I never had that.

But I take care of myself and I’m not wearing short skirts or sleeveless t-shirts. I respect the people how they are and I try to appropriate to them and I have no problems.

Jason Elkins (30:08.477)
Do you think, I’m a little reluctant to go here because I realize we both have people that listen to us and follow us that are from different walks of life. And do you think that culturally Europeans as opposed maybe to North Americans view the world slightly different when it comes to travel to places like India? And I’ll set the stage with Europeans.

big continent, a lot of more smaller countries, they can get on a train and be in another country in a couple hours. If that sometimes with the different language and different cultures and different foods and stuff like that. Whereas Americans don’t really, you know, we generally don’t have that. We, know, if we go to Canada, the Canadians would say it’s much, much different. know, but it’s maybe not as a big a differences between France and Spain. So

Nicole Dane (30:45.678)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (31:01.858)
if

Jason Elkins (31:07.187)
Have you noticed that either in the media that in the way that the media speaks about India or just in and travelers people you’ve come across? just curious if you’ve noticed any significant differences.

Nicole Dane (31:21.142)
No, I think what they speak, they don’t speak about states in India, it’s all India. So I remember a few months ago or half year ago, there was that rape in Kolkata. And I got a message from a friend of my parents from the Netherlands and he said, you see, India is not safe. Please be careful. I said, if a rape happens,

in Spain while I’m living in the Netherlands, would you say to me, Nicole, you’re not safe in the Netherlands? This is what you’re talking about when you talk about India. And I think that people don’t realize that. And people are still thinking about India, of an India of 30 years ago, even with the cleanliness. I totally agree that there are villages and cities where it is not clean.

Absolutely, it’s not as clean as in Europe. what happens here is that when you go into the houses of the people or in front of their houses, it’s perfectly clean. But the big problem is that to take the garbage in the remote villages, it’s very difficult. It’s a logi, logical logis, logistic, how you say that in English. Exactly. Exactly. So it’s not.

Jason Elkins (32:41.563)
Yeah, logistical problem. Yeah.

Nicole Dane (32:46.958)
And some people are not aware because there are also people who didn’t learn that kind of things. But a few weeks I was in a very remote area of Rajasthan and the owner of that farmstay brought me to a school and I was impressed about how clean it was because we bought some bins for them to encourage them to be clean, to throw everything in the bins. And I arrived at the school and I said to…

to the owner of the hotel said, why did you bring this? Look how clean it is. It was just amazing to see. there are a lot of projects going on and people are really focused also on being sustainable, know, not using plastic bags, but India is so big. what happens here in Udaipur doesn’t mean that it will happen in Jodhpur because everyone has different ways of handling things.

Jason Elkins (33:21.275)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (33:43.889)
Well, you know what you’re saying there, it makes total sense. And I’m trying to imagine if I’m living in a village and my priority is doing enough work that I’m able to feed my family. And then I’m faced with the question of, okay, what are you going to do with your garbage? And I don’t have a car. I don’t have a pickup truck. Nobody’s going to come by and pick it up.

So how much time and effort am I going to put into packing up all the garbage and walking a mile or two or somewhere to dispose of it or paying somebody to take it away? It’s like, man, that just doesn’t fit into my priorities right now. So that just develops a system where it’s like, I just got to get it maybe out of the yard, just over the fence into the street.

Nicole Dane (34:24.162)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (34:32.643)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (34:40.839)
because I don’t necessarily want it in my yard, I’m not going to invest a lot of, I’m not going to take money out of my kid’s mouth in order to take half a day to get the garbage somewhere else where it belongs. Right? Is that, it’s kind of sounds like what’s happening.

Nicole Dane (34:41.187)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (34:50.7)
Yes. Yes, this is one thing what happens and at the other side there’s also because I see so many times people just throwing plastic on the ground. And that’s a thing. I had a lot of discussions about that. the there are so many people and so many people thinking differently. I still don’t agree and don’t like it. And I really when I’m traveling or when I’m on the street,

I really show how even I smoke and when I have smoked a cigarette, I never throw it on the floor. So I try, you know, to make the small difference on that way. But at the other side, until 30 years ago, they didn’t use plastic because everything was made by leaves, natural products, and that you could just throw it on the floor because it will. So, you know, there are so many, and I don’t say it’s a good thing that they throw.

plastic on the floor because I really don’t like that. you know, I think we need to go more in the depth to understand the reason why it started and how difficult it is to change behavior of people. And it takes time. But I see that it’s changing.

Jason Elkins (36:04.317)
We, because kids growing up, they see their grandparents throwing banana leaves on the ground after they finish eating, eating something. And they just, okay, that’s how you do it. And then the, you know, the kid ends up with a bag of chips, a plastic bag full of chips or something. And it’s, they’re not thinking about that. They’ve got other things that they’re worried about trying to get through the day.

Nicole Dane (36:11.543)
Yes!

Nicole Dane (36:17.25)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (36:29.419)
And again, not not justifying it, but if you understand the culture behind it, then maybe you can do something, do something about it. And it’s also, it’s just, it can feel overwhelming when you’re in a crowded place trying to make a change. Maybe you’re the one person in the neighborhood that’s like really determined to keep, you know, the area around their house clean, but then all your neighbors are throwing their garbage in your yard.

And eventually you’re just like, man, this is pointless. And it just kind of continues that way. But I don’t want to get too focused on the trash in India. It’s an issue, but it is something probably that your clients or people visiting India for the first time, it can be a little bit of a culture shock. So what do you think you get to do with your clients before they come that will help them not be so shocked by it?

Nicole Dane (37:04.294)
No.

Jason Elkins (37:25.149)
but at the same time not saying, hey, just so you know, this place is really dirty. There’s a lot of garbage because you don’t want to emphasize that. But at the same time, if they kind of know what to expect, what do you think?

Nicole Dane (37:40.238)
Yeah, so I think people already expect it to be dirty, to be unsafe, to eat everywhere, to feel unsafe because of the media. And once they are here, that’s what my cousin told me last year. She said, oh my gosh, would never, if you didn’t, wouldn’t have lived in India, I would have never gone here, but it’s just amazing. And it’s not how.

Jason Elkins (37:49.53)
Okay.

Nicole Dane (38:08.086)
it is shown on the news. So I think I even don’t need to put too much of attention once they decide to book the trip. I think the point to talk to people is before they decide to book because people don’t book because they think the food is not safe because they think it’s unsafe to travel around and especially as a woman. that’s why we organize now women groups so they can go for the first travel to India.

Jason Elkins (38:15.985)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (38:33.639)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (38:37.314)
in a group setting with a guide with them and then they will see that it’s nothing to worry about.

Jason Elkins (38:46.279)
That’s so I can relate to that. Many of the places I’ve traveled, my family wasn’t that excited when I first started traveling full time. My first destination was Columbia and it’s kind of the similar, similar things, especially in the U S the news reports that we remember seeing or that especially our parents remember saying, or maybe even I was, was growing up. There wasn’t a lot of good stuff. There wasn’t a, my gosh, Columbia is amazing. You should go there. was, we weren’t getting that message.

And even, you know, 30 years later, when I pick up and say, Hey, I’m gonna, I sold all my stuff and went to Columbia kind of the same way you did to India. And my family’s like, what are you doing that for? Are you sure that’s where you want to go? And, know, and, and I got there and I was like, I remember sitting out in front of a TN desert coffee shops, drinking my little paper cup with my coffee in it and eating my croissant thinking, wow.

Nicole Dane (39:28.798)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (39:44.935)
There are so many people that are never going to experience what I’m experiencing right now out of fear or misunderstanding or old stories that, you know, have have long since passed, but they still have it in their head. And I suspect you’re the same way in India. It’s like, my gosh, if people only knew they would they would really, really, really dig this. So then that’s your challenge is to to convey that to to your potential clients so you can share it with them.

Nicole Dane (40:03.159)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (40:11.618)
Yes.

Yes, yeah, and I think this is one of the reasons I started Heart of India Travel is because I wanted to share my experience about India with others and at the same time doing something for local economies because India is not as touristic when you compare to Indonesia or Thailand. There are a lot of tourists coming there. And what I saw during my trips is that more and more villagers are moving to the big cities and

It’s a big misunderstanding that India is very poor. In the big cities, people live often in poverty because life is expensive there. They don’t have their houses. But in the villages, they have their house because people live in joint families. They have some piece of land, so they have food. They have everything they need. But there is no income because the people are going out from the villages.

And I thought if I start Heart of India travel, I bring my people to the places where not that well known and where the crafts come from or the heritage, the musicians, that kind of things. It would increase the economy in those villages.

Jason Elkins (41:28.947)
I told you before we, before I hit the record button, I said, I’m not going to ask you any questions. Don’t know the answer to them. I don’t know if you know the answer to this, but let’s just guess I’m guessing. And you know, more than I do that the vast majority of tourists that go to India probably are going to what? The Taj Mahal, probably a few other places. I’m thinking like 99, 90 % of the tourists going to India.

especially Europeans and maybe from the states are probably going to 1 % of the the destination. Does that sound about right?

Nicole Dane (42:07.734)
Yes. And you know, if you want to, those villages are the heart of India. That’s the real India, the real people. I remember when I told my oldest daughter that I will live in India, she said, you know, daddy is going to Delhi so many times and said it’s dirty and he it’s not safe. he does. And I said, you know, people think that Delhi is India. No, if you want to discover the real India, go to the villages and there it’s a world.

Jason Elkins (42:13.201)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (42:26.557)
Nicole Dane (42:37.334)
a totally different world. People are so welcoming. You know, I had in houses so small, people had nothing and they give me their lost child. This is how Indians are. And this is for me.

Jason Elkins (42:50.276)
Yeah. Mate, they give you their last child? What did you say? OK. I thought I better ask for clarification just in case someone else also heard child. You know what, though? As we’re discussing this, the little light bulb went off. Because remember when I asked you, why is it that the publications and the media and people are always writing and talking about, you know,

Nicole Dane (42:54.422)
No, no, chai, chai, chai. The tea. No, no, no. No, no, no.

Jason Elkins (43:17.063)
Dirty, dangerous, deli belly. And then as you were speaking, was like, duh, because that’s where most of them are going is, you know, to deli where you have deli belly and you’ve got the those, those things. So you’ve gotten if you if my stats are anything close, 90 % of people are going there aren’t really seeing the stuff you and I are talking about. They’re there and they’re going back and sharing it right.

Nicole Dane (43:26.282)
Exactly. Yes.

Nicole Dane (43:41.804)
You know, had, yeah, I had in all those years I’m traveling to India and living in India, I had one deli belly and it was in Delhi in a four star hotel.

Jason Elkins (43:54.227)
It was in Delhi in a four-star hotel Do you I don’t know if you remember this I don’t know why this came up but Anthony Bourdain I Remember reading something that he’d written probably in social media I don’t even know if he wrote it but it was like don’t eat the food at the hotel buffet when you when you go to these places because

Nicole Dane (43:57.387)
Exactly.

Nicole Dane (44:14.432)
No, but that’s true.

Jason Elkins (44:17.127)
because the hotel doesn’t care. You’re there for one night. You’re there for a, you know, you’re there for one night. You’re leaving the next morning. It’s not their problem where the street vendor, the street vendor is relying on their regular local people that buy from them. And if you see a street vendor with a lot of people lined up, that’s where you should be eating. And if you’re eating in the hotel and you get deli belly, then that’s probably on you.

Nicole Dane (44:21.859)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (44:25.62)
Exactly.

Nicole Dane (44:34.136)
Oops.

Nicole Dane (44:38.968)
Yeah.

Nicole Dane (44:43.032)
So, but that’s what we do when I only work together with small hotels run by the owners themselves. Most of the time it’s only homemade food. So it’s most fresh. It’s mostly organic. And for myself, I eat everywhere now. But when I eat street food, I only go to places where it’s busy. When it’s not busy, don’t go because you know there’s something wrong. the places were busy. I never had…

Jason Elkins (45:04.659)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Dane (45:11.85)
anything. But the big hotels, I even don’t work with them because exactly what you say, they have those buffet, the taste is not good. You won’t get the real Indian taste of food. And in those homestays, you get the most amazing food.

Jason Elkins (45:26.417)
Which is so counterintuitive because I’m sure that many of the people that let’s say they visit Delhi or this isn’t limited just to India, but they visit a place and they’re so afraid of getting Delhi belly or Bali belly or, or whatever it is, wherever they’re going, that they are afraid to eat the street food, you know, or they’re, afraid to go into some of the restaurants. So they end up eating the hotel food because they think it’s going to be safe.

Nicole Dane (45:48.78)
They miss the best food.

Jason Elkins (45:55.795)
and it’s easy because the label, that’s a thing too, right? Is sometimes it’s hard to eat street food because you don’t know what it is and if you’re a picky eater, you wanna know what it is. But the hotel buffet at least will probably have little signs on each thing saying, spicy green curry or whatever, right?

Nicole Dane (46:10.626)
So this is a funny thing. Yes. So this is a funny thing. was two years back, was for some, a few weeks in Mumbai and I visited the slum there and I met one, the owner of the guy who was organizing those tours in the slums and he invited me at his home and he told me about how everything works in the slum. And he told me, are making cookies in the slum.

And those are the most famous cookies in Mumbai. But they have to sell them to a bakery. The bakery gets the name, the brand name, with the brand name on it. Because people in Mumbai don’t want that people get to know that they are buying from the slums. But this is a huge business. And when you see what happens in the slums and the richness in the slums, people are amazingly rich. There are some millionaires there.

Jason Elkins (46:49.565)
wraps them up in a wrapper.

Nicole Dane (47:09.324)
and they still live in small apartments because they don’t care. And I think that’s also one of the things I remember one time I was in Gujarat in the tribal area and I took some pictures of a house and one friend made a note because I’m putting some blogs on Polar Steps and she said, my gosh, terrible to see this poverty and this sheep is just living in the living room.

Jason Elkins (47:09.597)
Okay.

Nicole Dane (47:38.956)
I answered, said, you know, this family has amazing amounts of money. They have an enormous car in the garden, but they don’t care. They are used to live in a small house without furniture and they are happy the way they are living. And for me, this is one of the parts that makes India so beautiful, especially in the countryside, because big cities is different, but the countryside and the real India, this is how it works. They don’t care about materialism.

Jason Elkins (48:09.521)
Yeah, isn’t that’s where the culture shock is right there is just wrapped, wrapped up probably in the word materialism because, because you and I both know that the person in the U S or in the, Europe that can afford to visit, to fly to India and they’re probably going to stay at the four star hotel and all this in our culture, the person that has money to go do that stuff.

Nicole Dane (48:14.923)
Exactly.

Nicole Dane (48:19.446)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (48:39.069)
tends to care about their house and the size of their house and the neighborhood that they live in and their yard. So they, yeah, that’s gonna be a big contrast. Where there’s probably people living in some of these villages and pretty meek, I don’t even, I’m not, ignore that word, but they’re living in a place that we would look at and say, wow, they must be really poor.

And then they’re probably going down to the airport, getting on a plane and flying and, and visiting Europe.

Nicole Dane (49:11.982)
That’s exactly, yes. Yes, I went to see some artists and they are well known over the whole world. Their work is shown everywhere. And I went to their houses and it’s just so basic. And you will think, my gosh, this guy needs some money and I need to give him something. And I think the biggest problem of us foreigners is…

We don’t ask any questions. We see something, we make our own conclusions instead of asking for, okay, it looks very poor. Are they poor? And then, you you get the chance to explain people, but no, people make their own conclusions and that’s how it comes into the world.

Jason Elkins (49:57.157)
You’re absolutely right. And here we are two Westerners. You at least live in India and I’ve been traveling a lot. But we’re still kind of, you know, we run our things through the head that was created when we were two and three and four years old. But where I’m going with this is, you know, like you said, we show up and we look and say, your situation looks really difficult. You look like you need a new house.

Nicole Dane (50:22.636)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (50:25.811)
But if you ask them, hey, tell me about your life, tell me about your dreams, what’s important to you, they may never occur to say, man, you know what, I need a new house. They might say I need a new car. Because it’s going to be useful for them. Or they might say, I want to go to the US someday. Or I want to.

attend my child’s wedding someday, or I want to have grandchildren. So what we think is their most pressing need isn’t always what they think is their most pressing need. And yeah, so it’s really about asking questions instead of just making assumptions. But it’s also hard to ask questions. If you feel like someone’s living a much different life,

Nicole Dane (51:04.129)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (51:19.757)
Sometimes it’s hard to ask questions because we’re afraid we don’t want to offend anybody. So how do you do that? How do you ask questions to somebody without offending them?

Nicole Dane (51:28.898)
You know-

Nicole Dane (51:34.478)
So I think the thing here in India is very easy because Indians are so curious. They ask you, within five, yes, yes, so if they ask me, why shouldn’t I ask them? And that’s how it works here. But that’s how connections start very easily.

Jason Elkins (51:40.999)
They will ask you, right? That’s a good point.

Jason Elkins (51:54.045)
Hmm. You bring up a good point because I’ve even just some of the memes and I’ve, I’ve again, I have many India, but I’ve met some Indians. I, the ones I’ve met have been amazing, but you’re right. They tend to be pretty comfortable getting physically close and they tend to be comfortable. Just, Hey, why do you look that way? Where are you? You know, just asking weird, weird. Actually, yes.

Nicole Dane (52:10.562)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (52:16.174)
Yes, are you married? Do you have children within five minutes?

Jason Elkins (52:23.515)
Actually, I was just having a conversation with somebody earlier today that’s in Kenya. We were having conversations about the cultural differences. And she said the first time that she got to guide a group of people, she got on a small bus with some people and they started asking her questions like, know, are you single? Do you have a boyfriend? And that’s like culturally, well, we just don’t discuss that stuff. But in India, they do, think. It’s especially like…

Nicole Dane (52:44.332)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

Jason Elkins (52:51.027)
because parents, the whole family gets very involved in their children’s romantic relationships and stuff like that. don’t need, so I can see an older woman asking a younger man on the street, are you married? Do you have a wife? Do you have a girlfriend? You should beat my daughter. Fascinating. What’s, I don’t wanna ask you any.

Nicole Dane (52:58.562)
There is no privacy in India.

Nicole Dane (53:09.282)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (53:13.688)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (53:16.915)
I think you’ve pretty much answered the question of, what’s your favorite part of living in India? I think we’ve definitely covered that. I think we’ve covered some of the surprises. Like what would people be surprised to know? But maybe I want to dig a little deeper.

What do you, somebody that’s thinking about, I think we’ve already covered this, maybe something else will come up. Someone that’s thinking, know, I’ve kind of always wanted to go to India, but I’ve been reluctant or I feel like, there’s other places I keep going to instead of India. What’s the message you really want to get to them?

Nicole Dane (54:00.177)
You know, I can answer this question, but I’m passionate about India and I want to discover all India. I think I won’t be, you know, I have my own thoughts about, but I think, you know, I think what I, how I,

Jason Elkins (54:13.201)
You’re biased. You’re biased. I get that. That’s OK.

Nicole Dane (54:25.006)
saw India and my experience of India, especially after the first two and a half months is that India is real. People are real and really interested. It’s not the to buy or shop, sell you something, you know? I remember when after India, after two and a half months of India, I went to Myanmar and Myanmar is Buddhism. So my

first thought was about the people there are very kind and I had a culture shock because there it felt so superficial and just because they wanted to sell something to me. And I was, I had a total culture shock when I went to another country. And I’m not saying that everyone here is real because it’s not possible, but the people I have met, was like that. And especially in the places where

less known, so the hidden gems were amazing because it’s so beautiful. People still are like 50 years ago and I enjoy that. I enjoy the way of living, how people lived 50 years ago without the social media, without all those… Yes?

Jason Elkins (55:42.589)
Well, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but it did just make me think that that’s an interesting thing because as someone that travels a lot, and I think a lot of people listen to this podcast do as well, is sometimes you go places and you just immediately determine, okay, if anybody talks to me, it’s because they want to sell me something. You know, I’ve found myself several places where I’ve thought,

Nicole Dane (56:06.584)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (56:11.835)
If anybody approaches me and starts a conversation with me, they’re trying to sell me something and it’s not magazines.

That’s a tough bag to carry around in your head. When I say a tough bag, a tough story that I’ve got in my head is that if people try and talk to me, they want to sell me something because I know I’ve missed out on opportunities to have really interesting conversations. Because a few times when I do let my guard down, I’m surprised. You know, some young, yeah, a young man sits down next to me on a park bench and initially I’m like, my gosh, he’s going to tell me some story and da da da da da and why he needs money.

Nicole Dane (56:41.43)
You get the most amazing, Yes.

Jason Elkins (56:52.477)
And then 10 minutes later, we’re just sitting there. He’s practicing his English. I’m practicing my Spanish. And he’s telling me about his family and his brother and what he wants to do in school. And he wants to learn about the US. And I’m like, jeez. I almost just missed that opportunity. And I’m embarrassed to admit it. But I’ll share here because I haven’t shared it anywhere. I went.

Nicole Dane (57:16.27)
You know, but I share exactly your meaning. sorry, you were saying something.

Jason Elkins (57:19.751)
You’ve seen that, right? Well, was just one quick thing that really embarrassed me was I was in Bucaramanga, Colombia, and I went downstairs to get some coffee in a croissant in the morning. I was standing, just this guy was selling it just on the street. There were no tables. It wasn’t a cafe. I was just standing there. They’re waiting for him to get my coffee. And this guy approached me as I thought he approached me.

because that’s how arrogant and egotistical I can be sometimes. Oh, he must be approaching me. But he walked up and I looked at him and he looked, you know, his hair was messed up. He wasn’t dressed very nicely. And I think he was trying to just acknowledge me, say good morning or something. And I looked at him and I said, no, que pena, no tengo. Like basically meaning, no, I’m sorry, I don’t have anything for you. And he looked at me with the weirdest look.

And then he looked at the guy working there and ordered his coffee and his croissant. And he was just getting coffee just like I was. And it’s like seven in the morning. So of course his hair is messed up. He just got up at, he looks, I looked the exact same way, but nobody assumed I was asking for money. So anyway, I only share that to emphasize, know, anybody listening, your guard down. Don’t assume everybody wants money from you, but it sounds like you can relate to that.

Nicole Dane (58:31.694)
D’oh!

Yeah.

Nicole Dane (58:40.984)
Yes.

Absolutely, and still I think it’s happening less and less, but I still have those moments, you know, that I think, my gosh, I’m thinking like that again and stop it because, you know, I think that the biggest problem are my thoughts and now not the situation, it’s what I make from the situation. And when I just let that go, the most amazing discussions appear and…

you get to know so many new things just by letting go your thoughts and your prejudice.

Jason Elkins (59:17.619)
Have you, I’m sure you have, have you had conversations with people that in the end, yeah, they’re probably asking for some sort of support, but the conversation is so fascinating that you’re like, well, that was the best dollar 50 I ever spent or $2, you know, they don’t necessarily ask you for much, but they’ll spend 10 minutes having conversation with you, fascinating conversation. And then they say, hey, is it, know,

I’m broke, can you help me with anything? And you know, you give them whatever it is. And you’re like, that was actually money really well spent. That was like a really good conversation. yeah, so anyway, enough on that. What’s that? What are you, you’re going on a trip. So tell us real quick about the trip you’re getting ready to take.

Nicole Dane (59:54.444)
Yes.

Yeah.

Nicole Dane (01:00:07.896)
So I’m going on a trip to Madhya Pradesh. So I will start with Agra and Chambal. It’s 100 kilometers from Agra. And those two are because of our NGO work, because next to the travel agency, each place I cover, I speak with the owners of the hotel, because most of them are doing something in sustainability.

They support local economy. So I go there to see if we can do something with our program for education. And then I’m going to the MP fair, the Madhya Pradesh fair, because I’m going to extend the states I’m working together with. So now we offer Gujarat and Rajasthan. And I covered quite some places in those two states.

And now I want to extend with Madiapradesh because it’s not well known and there are a lot of tribal areas there and also very nice safari parks. And Karnataka and Kerala. And Karnataka is because it’s not well known and I love that state. And Kerala is more because there are more and more people in Europe, maybe in the US as well, but…

were willing to do something with mindfulness, Ayurveda, because people, and especially after COVID, people got depressed, burned out, so that’s the reason.

Jason Elkins (01:01:34.771)
Are you leading? Have you considered leading the wellness trips? Your trip is going to be led by, I don’t know if you’re a psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor, therapist, I’m not sure, but it seems like you could lead some trips and kind of help them work through some of their issues.

Nicole Dane (01:01:49.71)
So yes, yeah, so for now, yeah, for now the group trips, I go with the group and yes, with the wellness, you know, and I think it’s not even as a psychologist, I think it’s at the moment you travel together, you get to learn each other and when the connection starts, psychology in fact is not more than in the first place is listening, really listening to people.

And most of the time that solves for 70 % their problem. And then the next thing in my job is to ask some questions that make people think so they find their own solutions. That’s, it’s not more than that.

Jason Elkins (01:02:32.657)
Yep. And I suspect if you’ve got a new client that has decided that they want to speak with somebody and they are introduced to you and they come into the mindset of, I’m going to speak with a psychologist, which is great. And I suspect some people have some real resistance to opening up at the beginning or maybe even booking the call and then

I suspect sometimes when you’re with clients in the field traveling with them, they probably open up much quicker and probably go much deeper, much faster because they’re on vacation, they’re feeling a connection, they don’t feel like they’re going to get analyzed, they’re just being people. Right? Do you experience that?

Nicole Dane (01:03:13.528)
You

Nicole Dane (01:03:21.454)
I did this, yes, but I experienced it in my work in the Netherlands as well, very often with my clients, it were people who had some problems by opening up and especially with the people with bigger traumas, I just went out. I didn’t sit in the clinical settings. No, I just went out for a walk and that’s how connection starts.

Jason Elkins (01:03:39.357)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Jason Elkins (01:03:45.957)
It’s, I was a fly fishing guide in Montana for several years. And the fly fishing guide thing in Montana is typically me as the guide and one or two guests. It’s fairly very, very small type of, you know, one-on-one or two to one. And I can’t tell you how many times I get booked with one guy, you know, he comes from Ohio or Minnesota or whatever, comes out to Montana, wants to go fishing, books me.

And it’s just he and I, and I’m just rowing the boat down the river and we’re chatting and talking. I can’t tell you how many super, super deep conversations came out that I’m pretty sure this guy, maybe he’s had it with other guides on tourism experiences. I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure what we’re talking about. He would never talk to his buddies about back home. He’s never going to talk to his dad about it. He’s never going to talk to his brother about it. He’s never going to.

Nicole Dane (01:04:23.31)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:04:41.331)
probably won’t go sign up to speak with a professional, but he’ll pay me $450 for the day to go fishing and share all this stuff that he hasn’t shared for years. And I always thought, man, this would be like a really good gig for a psychologist to be a fishing guide at the same time, probably really, really help people out. So they were just stuck with me. I could just listen. But like you said, that’s important, right?

Nicole Dane (01:04:53.155)
Yeah.

Nicole Dane (01:05:00.652)
Yes.

Nicole Dane (01:05:05.826)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:05:08.179)
Anyway, we’ve discussed a ton of things. I know we could just keep going and going and going. And I want to be respectful to your time and the listeners. I know you’re packing. Get ready for your trip. But tell me, Nicole, what did I forget to ask you? What do you wish I’d asked you or what do you want to make sure our listeners know about either you? But now I’m going to say it wrong. But at this, but at this rate, OK, I still got it. But at this level.

Nicole Dane (01:05:31.744)
No, it’s good. Your accent is even better than mine.

Jason Elkins (01:05:35.779)
and Heart of India travel, India or just life in general. there anything else you want to share before we wrap it up?

Nicole Dane (01:05:41.942)
Yes, I would love people and not especially with my travel agency, but just come over and experience the real India. Give it a chance because India is a country that really deserves to be discovered. not the Taj. Yes, the Taj is a beautiful part, but it’s not about the Taj that I’m speaking because the Indians and the whole inside of India

is even more beautiful than the tesh itself.

Jason Elkins (01:06:15.603)
I love that you said whether you come with me or with someone else or on your own, just do it. That shows a real honest, sincere love for the country and wanting to share it. And I’m gonna say, if you do wanna go to India, click on Nicole’s link and we’re gonna have her link to both websites. Probably have Heart of Travel India will be the primary link that you see.

Nicole Dane (01:06:37.07)
What?

Jason Elkins (01:06:43.955)
And if you are working in the business and want to speak with someone that is kind of boots on the ground that can help you with your clients, you’ll find that link on the bottom of the page as well. So reach out to her, have a conversation. I’m going to end with this question. How long did it take before you were able to rattle off all those names of places and pronounce them right? Because I was listening to you. like, I hope that the language has a consistent pattern that you could.

Nicole Dane (01:07:05.87)
It took quite some time.

Jason Elkins (01:07:13.563)
Once you learn the pattern, you could look at these other names and get them right because, boy, I don’t remember the single name of anything you said other than Delhi and the Taj Mahal. So even more reason for someone to reach out to you for your expertise so they don’t get misunderstood when they go to book a room and end up in the wrong city. So Nicole, thank you so much. This has been a real pleasure and I look forward to hopefully meeting you in India someday.

Nicole Dane (01:07:19.029)
No.

Nicole Dane (01:07:35.95)
City, yes.

Jason Elkins (01:07:43.598)
projects together. Thanks Nicole.

Nicole Dane (01:07:44.818)
Yes. Thank you. Bye.

 

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