Guest Bio
Oliver Browne is the Founder and CEO of True Summit Adventures, a luxury mountain adventure company specializing in bespoke trekking and mountaineering experiences. With a background as a professional guide and adventurer, Oliver has combined his passion for high-altitude exploration with a commitment to providing exceptional, personalized journeys. His leadership has positioned True Summit Adventures as a premier provider of curated mountain expeditions, catering to clients seeking unique and transformative outdoor experiences.
Show Summary
In this episode, Oliver Browne discusses his journey from professional guide to founder of True Summit Adventures. He shares insights into the challenges and rewards of creating luxury mountain adventures, emphasizing the importance of safety, sustainability, and cultural immersion. Oliver reflects on memorable expeditions, the evolving landscape of adventure tourism, and his vision for the future of bespoke mountaineering experiences. Listeners will gain an understanding of what it takes to operate high-end adventure tours and the impact these experiences have on clients and local communities.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Entrepreneurial Leadership – Transitioning from guide to CEO in the adventure tourism industry.
- ✓ Luxury Adventure Experiences – Crafting bespoke mountaineering and trekking journeys.
- ✓ Safety and Sustainability – Upholding high standards in expedition planning and execution.
- ✓ Cultural Engagement – Integrating local cultures into adventure experiences for deeper client immersion.
- ✓ Industry Evolution – Observations on trends and future directions in adventure tourism.
What You’ll Find on True Summit Adventures’ Platform
- ✓ Upcoming Adventures – Detailed itineraries for treks and climbs, including Everest Basecamp and Kilimanjaro.
- ✓ Bespoke Expeditions – Customizable adventure packages tailored to individual preferences and goals.
- ✓ Expert Guides – Information on professional guides leading each expedition.
- ✓ Client Testimonials – Reviews and stories from past adventurers.
- ✓ Training Resources – Preparation guides and fitness plans for upcoming expeditions.
👉 Visit True Summit Adventures’ Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Oliver Browne’s contributions to luxury mountain adventures.
Learn more about True Summit Adventures and connect with Oliver at:
https://www.truesummitadventures.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Super excited to have Oliver Browne here from True Summit Adventures. Oliver is the man when it comes to the mountain climbing and we’re gonna talk a little bit about that and both a little bit of the mechanics but also just kind of what it’s all about and why do people do that and what’s the drive behind all that. So Oliver’s so happy to have you here on the show.
Great. Thanks very much for having me. Yeah. And Oliver, everybody always wants to know where, where everybody’s joining us from. So where are you today? So I’m in Tirana, Albania, um, which is a small mountainous country, uh, above, above Greece and below, uh, Montenegro, the Western, the Western Balkans. I mean, and I’m in the capital. Are you just visiting or where do you live? So I live, I mean, I’m on the road a lot.
but my base is in London. But I’m in Albania on, basically on a mission to see what it’s like. My partner is Albanian as well. So we might be spending more times here, but there’s a big load of mountains here as well. So we’re gonna go and check that out this weekend in the north of the country. Very cool. Let’s say we’re chatting in here November.
So if I’ve got the math right, it’s gotta be kind of maybe getting cold in Albania. What’s the weather like? Well, it was, I mean, it’s, I mean, it’s Southern Mediterranean, you’ve got to think so, you know, it was t-shirt weather today. It was, it was, I would say about 22 degrees, 22, 23 t-shirt weather. I mean, in London, it was about eight degrees and raining, but, um, no, here it was nice and sunny.
Jason Elkins (02:07.118)
those of us that are not Europeans or haven’t spent a lot of time in Europe, sometimes it’s hard for us to get in perspective where things are as far as latitudes and what the weather looks like. I’d say we’re about level with Rome, probably. So if you took a line across from Albania, I expect you’d end up somewhere in southern Italy around maybe Rome, I would guess. Right. And then I think that corresponds with, in North America, it’s probably somewhere around
um, New York or something like that. And it’s cold in New York right now. So I bet I’m not looking in the map, but anyway, so you’re going to do some exploring, hopefully find some new, some new things to discover and share with your clients. Something that everybody, go ahead. No, I was going to say, so Albania is actually becoming known for backcountry and heliskiing. So they have this, um, area in the, in the north of the country that is totally, um,
I think it’s one of the wettest areas in Europe, but it’s only 60 or 70 kilometers from the coast. So it produces this amazing snowfall above 2000 meters. So I think the mountain goes up to about 2800. But between 1200 and 2800, there is this incredible amount of snow that they get every winter. And it’s getting a reputation as a kind of Alaska of Europe where there’s…
you know, very, you know, very heavy, snowfall, um, pristine mountains to ski and, and no infrastructure, nobody else. And there’s, you know, 1500 square kilometers to choose from. So that’s kind of my focus for this winter is, um, spend some time here, climbing, uh, do some backcountry skiing, hopefully some helicopter skiing and yeah, find some, you know, find some new, awesome things for my clients to do. We’re cool. So when you say no infrastructure, does that mean they have like no.
ski resorts or it’s all backcountry and heliskiing? Or do they have a few options that? No, nothing. There’s no, you know, this is a country they had communism here till 1990. So they really, you know, it’s the beginning of, not quite the beginning, but you know, tourism is really only just started to pick up. You know, everything has to be built from scratch. So, you know, there’s no mountain lodges. There’s, you know, there was kind of
Jason Elkins (04:31.946)
some basic hotels in the area. But, you know, there’s not, you know, I was climbing in Slovenia last week, and there’s a really sophisticated network of high mountain huts, some of which are even occupied during the winter. Some which, you know, just have this sort of emergency room. But you know, in Albania, that’s there’s nothing like that. So it’s, it’s really a kind of pristine place for
for mountaineering and all mountain sports. Very cool. Sounds like a great place to spend some time. So, tell me one thing that everybody always wants to ask, we’re gonna chat quite a bit about why people do what you do and what’s behind it. And really the challenge that we, I’m gonna say we as adventurous people are pushing ourselves to do things, whether…
Whether that’s just going someplace that’s outside of our comfort zone or climbing a mountain or a hill skiing, there’s variety of reasons why we do that. We’re gonna discuss that. And I think everybody always kind of wants to know who is this guy? So, you know, how did you get from whatever you were doing before this to where you are now? What was your story? What is your story? Well, I always have done sports. I was a professional polo player when I was younger on horses.
So I always had this kind of, you know, we used to travel a lot for polo. I used to play, you know, I would play, I would play in the UK in the summer, and then I would play, you know, around the world in the UK winter. So I’ve always, you know, I had the travel bug since, you know, since I was a teenager, really, probably from polo. I mean, I really saw a lot of the world through playing polo. I played in India, Pakistan, America, Argentina, South Africa, China. So.
You know, I always, always enjoyed traveling. Um, when I finished, how did someone get into polo? I mean, was that something your dad was doing or no, no. Interesting to me. Yeah. And I was, my, there was no precedent of anyone in my family having played. We had like ponies as a child, you know, we used to ride around, you know, we live, I grew up in, uh, Hampshire is, um, you know, rural part of the UK, about two hours west of London.
Jason Elkins (06:51.382)
you know, we had ponies and we used to charge, you know, charge around on our ponies. And at some point, you know, there was opportunity to go for a polar lesson. I was like, okay, but I was, I mean, I remember the first time I went and played polo, I held the stick. I remember just thinking like, you know, you know, I was I was hooked straight away. And I think that’s actually what happened to me when I did mountaineering, you know, you know, I finished playing polo in 2014 2015. And
You know, I spent a few years working a desk job in London. I got really out of shape, you know, was the kind of business development specialist, so I was always taking people for lunch, always meeting people for drinks. You know, I kind of, I had this sort of three year period. I think I must’ve put on about 20 kilos, you know, I really changed. And at some point I kind of got sick of, you know, being out of shape and tired. And I started running.
And I think I did a London marathon in 2017, no, maybe 2018. Anyway, straight away after it, I was like, you know, I want to keep doing physical challenges. And I signed up from killer for Kilimanjaro and I did Kilimanjaro and I had this sort of same epiphany that I had the first time I played polo and I, and I came down and I knew, you know, I was going to, you know, I’m just going to be a mountaineer from now on. It was a very kind of like strong realization. And I’ve been doing, um,
know, I’ve been doing adventures pretty much full time ever since then. And I guess this has mostly been climbing, but I’ve done some other things as well. I rode the Atlantic last December and January. I’ve done some other ocean rowing. And I’ve done- So when you say, Oliver, when you say you rode the Atlantic, you just kind of, I heard you say that kind of like I made a sandwich.
It was like, yeah, I rode the Atlantic. You rode a boat across the Atlantic. Am I hearing that right? So I rode from the Canary Islands, which is just off the coast of West Africa. I rode a four-man rowing boat with three friends to Antigua, 5,000 kilometers. That’s kind of a big deal. Yeah, very, okay. It was cool. It took 32 days, 13 hours.
Jason Elkins (09:07.87)
And with, you said a couple of your friends or how many were on the boat? There was four of us. Yeah, it was a four man team, four man crew. You were friends before you started this. Did that strengthen the friendship? Are you guys still talking to each other? What’s that like? No, we’re still talking. It was very interesting actually. I think adventures are, they’re a great way to discover what your strengths and weaknesses are.
and they can give you a lens into what your nature’s like. And they can also show you where you know, you need to improve. So if you’re somebody that gets stressed easily, or gets emotionally dysregulated easily, you this will be found out, or this will be shown very quickly. During a tough adventure like that, I think more so even there than, than the mountaineering, because the mountaineering is, is
know, if you’re climbing, if you’re doing Everest or whatever, there’s, you know, there’s, it’s a pretty slow and steady event, you know, the cadence is very different to row in the Atlantic, you know, you might be at Everest Base Camp for six weeks, and you’re actually only climbing for five days of that, you know, the rest of the time, you’re just waiting for the right weather, you’re doing your acclimatization hikes, but you might have a lot of downtime and the actual…
bit that you get stressed is isn’t very, you know, it’s a very short period of time and the actual the times that you get really stressed, you know, let’s say, you know, there’s an avalanche warning or, you know, when I climbed Everest, not that I summited, but when on my Everest attempt, we had two avalanches, one hit our camp, you know, camp to Mount Everest. And so that was stressful, but just for like three minutes, whereas, you know, running the Atlantic, I would say, you never had that kind of
know, feeling of like imminent, you know, disaster. But it was, you know, stressful for a longer, more consistent period of time, you know, and the fatigue is what really sets in, you know, and so then you’re trying to manage your own emotions, your own fatigue, you’re trying to, you know, manage what everyone else is doing, what everyone else is saying. So yeah, it’s a very interesting
Jason Elkins (11:29.302)
very interesting experience. I loved it. I found it very straightforward. In fact, it was, I don’t want to say it was simple, but it was, it showed you how simple you can make things. You know, it was, you know, you have your role and I was a rower. You know, we had another guy who was a rower, but he was also responsible for the technical bits on the boat, you know, the navigation systems, the communication systems where I was a rower and I did the cooking.
So my in my 24 hours each day, you know, I knew that I had to row for between 12 and 15 hours a day, I had to get as much sleep as I could in the time as I wasn’t rowing, and I had to boil this water for the food. And you can break this down into these two hour sections, you know, so I write for the next two hours, I’m rowing. And then after that, I’ve got an hour off. So I’m going to boil this water as quickly as I can, then I’m going to rest for 45 minutes. And you just keep going through those sections. And then, you know, you do that enough times, you’ll get to the other side.
So it was, it was very straightforward. I can’t, um, yeah, I can’t think of a time where, you know, I thought it was overly difficult. I, you know, I enjoyed it. It was, it was, it was, it’s a very beautiful place. The Atlantic, I thought it would be busy with shipping, but you know, we didn’t see, we had, we didn’t see anything for, you know, 32 days, really a few boats here and there, but yeah, it was incredible. Wow. So I heard you say it was simple.
And I’ve heard people say, and I’ve set up myself, like some things can be simple, doesn’t mean they’re easy. Right? That’s true. You know, it’s like, OK, it’s a simple procedure, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy. Maybe climbing, OK, we got to get up one foot in front of the other. It’s not necessarily rocket science, and I’m not a climber. So correct me if I’m just totally off base here. But you move in one foot in front of the other. So that can be simple.
But it’s hard because of the stuff that’s going on in your head. Maybe the pain, the discomfort, stuff like that, I would imagine. What’s the thing? Could you said that you learn a lot about yourself and you have these moments like triggers, like when you’re in a relationship or when you’re with somebody. There’s things that come up that trigger you and those triggers are a gift, an opportunity if you look at yourself and say, hey, what’s this area?
Jason Elkins (13:50.582)
that I need to improve on. And I would imagine, you know, in my experience with the venture stuff and, and spending, you know, time alone in other places, it’s like those things come up and it’s that awareness of, oh, wow, here’s this, here’s something I need to work on. That’s a long way of asking you, on the rowing trip across Atlanta, what was the one thing that came up for you that kind of surprised you or that you learned about yourself that you’re willing to share with us?
You know, I think that if you do a big multi-day adventure like that, there won’t be much that you don’t learn about yourself during that time. So I think, you know, for me, it was a great lesson was that if you prepare yourself, you know, I’d never done any rowing before. I’d never considered myself a sea person. I’d always got seasick as a kid.
hadn’t really been around. I like swimming in the sea at the beach, but I wouldn’t consider myself, I’d never done any sailing, but it was an example of where you can get to. And we became quite competent. It was a race with 44 boats. We came second in the race. We nearly won. Oh, wow. It was a good case where if you commit to something and you prepare really well, you can get very good at something.
Um, and so I think that is, that was a great lesson. It was like, wow. Um, we really, you know, we made a plan and we, you know, we, we executed it, uh, it really well. So you can get a lot of confidence from that, especially if you’re, you know, you, you know, other, the other things that you’re doing in your life, you’re, you’re starting a business, you know, you know, I started my, I started my adventure business two years ago. Um, I didn’t know much about marketing. I still don’t know that much about marketing. You know, I
was an adventure. I was a guide. I’d done a lot of climbing. I knew a lot of routes. But I didn’t know about accounts. I didn’t know about CRM. I didn’t know about any of these things. But from having done adventures and done big projects like the Atlantic Row, I was like, well, I could probably learn that. I could probably make a roadmap. And the more that you enjoy doing
Jason Elkins (16:15.186)
know, for me, when I was doing the also because I played sport professionally, so I you know, I’d been coached. And I think that’s, that would really help me. The other guys hadn’t been coached so much. So having some a coach to had a coach, it was very professional, it was a very serious guy, but he was very demanding. And so some of the guys didn’t like being told what to do, or didn’t like having this thing, you know, prescribed them. Whereas for me, I was like, wow, we’ve got this guy, and he’s putting all this time into me. I loved it.
And the guy would call me every day and he was like, look, I’m looking at your workouts and why has this happened? And, you know, instead of like, you know, some people were a bit like, hey, you know, why, you know, what’s all this questioning, whereas for me, I really embraced that I was like, wow, we’ve got a coach, this guy is committed to making me a better performer. And I really enjoyed that part of it. So if you can be, if you if you ever get the chance to be coached, and you can allow yourself to be coached, really, it will be the, you know, the best
you can get yourself to, I would say from my experience anyway, that the times when I’ve had the most coaching is when I’ve performed the best. Yeah. And it makes absolute sense, but a lot of people have resistance that I’ve been involved in coaching both on the receiving end and the, the giving end. And it is, it’s, I mean, if you look at anybody, look at, you know, the, the Tiger Woods, the magic, Johnson’s the, you know, LeBron James,
Everybody that’s really good at what they do as coach. And it’s not about necessarily, the coach doesn’t necessarily need to be more talented than you in certain areas. Tiger Woods’ coach wasn’t, is presumably not more talented as a golfer, but it’s at accountability. It’s just having somebody else that can see your weak spots, that can sit back and watch your swing or look at your workouts and see the gaps that you maybe either don’t see or you don’t wanna see. Because…
We play all kinds of tricks with ourselves to avoid things that we don’t want to do. And so I think that’s great advice. I’m curious because you said that when you started polo, like you put the stick in your hand and you’re like, okay, yep, this is it. And then you said when I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, you had kind of the same experience. Yep, this is it. Did you have that experience rowing across the Atlantic? Are you going to do it again? Or was that just a, oh, okay, I did that, but.
Jason Elkins (18:36.954)
No, I think I think. No, I mean, you know, when I first went ocean rowing, I you know, it’s, I did that as it because I’m, you know, I’m an adventurer full time. And that was an Everest level event, you know, I’m doing mostly climbing. But when the opportunity there was an opportunity that arose for me to do I got invited into the team. Initially, I said, Listen, I don’t think I can because you know, I’m climbing and I don’t want to get
derailed from that, but the person that asked me was a friend of mine. They nagged me a little bit and eventually I said, well, look, this is a, it’s an Everest level event. And if I, you know, if I do climb Everest, which I, you know, I hope I will, there’s only about three or four people that have climbed Everest and rode the Atlantic. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a very small club that you get into. So, yeah, you know, I’m not in a rush to do it again. I got.
somebody sounded me out about doing it again recently, and I’m not particularly enthusiastic for it. It’s, it’s a totally different training to the training that I do the training that I like. I gained 10 kilos when I did it. You know, I had this, you know, I had a runner’s climbers body before and then I, you know, suddenly I have, you know, lifting weights and doing the indoor rower, you know, I gained 10 kilos, I had this huge upper body strength. So it’s been spending the last year trying to sort of
get a bit lighter, in fact, because it’s not you know, when you’re, you know, when you’re going uphill, I went straight from the Atlantic Road to an expedition in Ecuador. And everyone said to me, Oh, you’ll be so fit after the road. And I really struggled. And maybe because I was tired, but also because, you know, was, you know, instead of being 85 kg, I was 95 kg. And I had to see you go and you’re going from sea level. Well, that too.
But yeah, I think I had to carry this extra weight that I created. So, you know, I, you know, I never say never, if somebody invited me for, you know, like into like a team that you could get the world record, or you could definitely win the race, then, or, you know, a world first, you know, then I’d be interested, but as it is, you know, I’m sticking to my mountaineering is, is what I like doing. But you know, it was it was a beautiful thing. And it’s good to do new things, you know? Yeah.
Jason Elkins (20:54.974)
So like we were just talking about, you mentioned, there’s differences between rowing and climbing, different set of muscles, different set of just stuff. If you’re talking to, as you meet people and talk to people that are interested in adventure stuff, presumably some of your clients, potential clients, friends, you’re just out and about circulating, how long does it take for you to figure out?
what type of adventure sport maybe somebody would be well suited for? Does that come to you naturally? Like do you meet people and say oh my gosh you’d be a great climber or you should be doing this or you should be doing that or is it more complicated than that? Well I tell everybody that I mean they should climb Kilimanjaro. I think there’s very few people in the world that you know that you know listen maybe if you’re too old or too young or you’re infirm or but I would say that most people
between the age of 15 and 65 could climb Kilimanjaro and should, you know, I think it’s one of the best things you can do in your lifetime. So, you know, that’s, you know, that’s, I tell everybody that you should climb Kilimanjaro. I think it’s one of the best things you can do. I’ve done it five times now. I love it every time I go. It’s- I hear you saying that. Why, why do you say that? I hear you saying it is one of the best things you can do, but tell us more. Why do you think that? I think-
I think for people that haven’t climbed before, it’s just got everything. It’s a proper challenge. It’s the right amount of hard. I think if it was less hard, it wouldn’t be so attractive. If it was harder, it wouldn’t be so attractive. So it’s right in the sweet spot of hard. It is a beautiful place. The people that work there are incredible.
you know, there’s, I think, you know, all mountain communities have, you know, have great people, but the, you know, Kinamunjara is really special. There’s, there’s, there’s so much singing sort of, you know, it’s just wonderful. So yeah, there, everything’s about everything’s good about it. You know, the immersion in nature, the challenge itself, and the people that you do the experience with. Yeah, it’s, no, it’s incredible. What’s, what’s the top tip that you would give to somebody that it’s in that situation, they haven’t done any climbing,
Jason Elkins (23:18.818)
They’re like, okay, Kilimanjaro, Oliver said I should do Kilimanjaro. What’s the top one or two tips that you would give them or something that they wouldn’t just know that they should know before they go. I think, I think, you know, the main thing that you, if you go prepared, then you’re going to enjoy it more. So, you know, if you are, you know, 20, 20 kilos more than you really should be, you need to lose 10 to 15 before you go, you know, try to get, try to get fitter. Um,
know, so just give yourself ample time. So you know, let’s, you know, if you’re, you know, someone that doesn’t do much hiking, then give yourself nine months to a year, don’t, don’t give yourself two or three years, because you’ll lose interest in that time, give yourself, you know, a timeframe where it’s manageable, you’ve got enough time to get ready, but not so much time that you’re going to lose interest and get distracted. So, you know, if you’re going from a standing star, you want to be doing it, you know, nine months to 12 months later, and you want to try and, you know,
prepare yourself in such a way to give yourself a really good chance of summiting. So, you know, lose weight, if you’re overweight, if you’re, you know, unfit, get as fit as you can. If you haven’t done much hiking, you know, you need to do, you know, a lot more in preparation. And you need time to build it up so that you can, you know, you won’t get injured in the process, you know, if you go from zero to 100 miles an hour, you know, then you’ll end up getting injured and losing interest. But you know, if you can just
consistency is consistency and patience are the two key ingredients to training. You know, so at the moment, I just started a new a new cycle of training. And my temptation is to get into the gym go, you know, literally go for it. And I, you know, in my mind, I know that this is a, you know, at least three months that I want to spend, you know, getting into shape and then accelerating in months four and five, you know, it’s a six month project. So
you know, the moment I’m just taking it easy this week, I had flu, I went to the gym yesterday, I just did a very slow run didn’t get my heart rate up, you know, just because you know, if you overdo it, and, you know, you’d miss a week because, you know, you didn’t recover from flu. So patience and consistency are the two most important things for me when I’m training. So you know, you need to give yourself time to get to get into shape, but not try to rush it. I suspect you probably have seen a scenario like this, or you can
Jason Elkins (25:38.79)
maybe with your clients, where you’ve got a husband and wife, where you’ve got two brothers, father, son, any combination you want to put together, where one of them is like, oh my gosh, this is on my bucket list. I’m going to go climb Kilimanjaro, but I want someone to go with me. Sometimes we get caught up in talking other people into going with us. I can envision leading group trips up mountains. What do you say to people that are thinking about trying to talk someone into going that
like isn’t already driven to do it. Is that a huge mistake? Or is there a way to do that in a way that doesn’t destroy your relationships? Or do you have any stories you wanna share with us? Yeah, I think it’s a good question. I think if you’re a father son or a mother daughter son, or a father daughter, I think if you can do one of these events with your siblings, it’ll be the best thing you ever do together. Unless your child is so disinterested or,
if you have to really, really make them. But if they’ve shown, you know, some, some degree of excitement or enthusiasm for doing it with you, then I would say that it’ll end up being the best thing that you ever do together, bar some kind of disaster illness, tooth infection, etc. But typically, I say it would be the best thing you ever do. I think for you know, I think you’ve got to give people encouragement, but you know, there’s no point taking someone that doesn’t want to be there. And so I you know,
when I you know, people, you know, people call me and say, hey, I’m thinking about doing this. And I’m very reluctant to talk people into any of my expeditions, you know, and similarly with people that I know, friends or you know, people that I know that would be it would be hugely beneficial for them to come on one of my expeditions, either because they you know, they need a, you know, I can see that they need a break, or they need a break from, you know, whatever environment that they’re in, that’s not doing them any good, I can see that they need to come and it would be hugely beneficial for them. But I don’t
waste any time trying to talk them into it. You know, I say to people, this is what I’m doing. People see on my Instagram, but I’m very reluctant to really push people into it. I want people to come, you know, that, you know, they’re already accepting the doors open, they just walking through it. But I think it’s, yeah, you know, offer people encouragement, say to them, look, it’d be great for us to do this together, I think. But, you know, I, yeah, I don’t try to try to push people too hard.
Jason Elkins (28:05.622)
People fall through the door when they’re ready, I find, you know. Yeah. And I spoke with another gentleman that in Guatemala and they do some volcano tracks down there and he just put it really well. He’s like, he’s like, yeah, you just kind of got to want it. You know, if you don’t want it, don’t, you know, don’t sign up for it. And that’s that conversation came up because I was traveling with my son in Guatemala the summer before last and there’s it’s the it’s called, um,
Jason Elkins (28:35.238)
Mount Fuego, where you can see that lava coming out of the top of the mountain and everybody was so excited. And I was like, Oh, we got to do this. And but I had that moment of you know, my son, he’s 15 year old teenager. And he you know, it was like, yeah, I could just envision 15 minutes into the hike. He’s like, Okay, I’m done now. You know, and I was like, I just didn’t want to do that to our relationship, because I would have been totally, you know, like, I don’t know, we spent the money we’re going
And, um, but now as he gets older, a little bit more mature, I feel like I could take him back and we could have a much better experience. So I think it is important not to over push sometimes, um, to appreciate her in that, and that was a fairly selfish question that I asked because. I do some marketing work. I actually work with a company that does kill the majority of our tracks. And I was talking to my dad the other day and he’s like, you know, son.
that’s on my bucket list. I’ve always wanted to climb Kilimanjaro and nothing would be better than to climb it with you. And so when are we going? When are we going? And it was kind of a moment of, I’d already been thinking about going, but as soon as you’ve got like a family member, especially, you know, father, son dynamics and all that, as soon as like, man, if I tell him, yes, we’re gonna do it, then we’re gonna do it. And it was interesting that when you get somebody else involved, there’s that accountability. It’s kind of like having a coach. So maybe there’s something good there. I don’t know.
But yeah, you definitely should. You know, I would say, you know, when I, you know, in all the adventures I’ve done, I’ve never tried to talk somebody into it. You know, like we had, when we had the Atlantic row, you know, we were looking for people. We, we signed up people, we lost people. We talked to a lot of people. We auditioned people and, you know, I didn’t try to talk anybody into it. You know, I was like, if you, if you want to do this with me, I, I’d be glad to do it with you, but I was thinking of someone that was like, I want to go to this, you know,
to this place with you. Similarly with my climbing, I done a lot of climbing by myself because, you know, if you wait around for other people, you never go. And when I first started climbing, I went so deep into it so quickly. And, you know, people were like, wow, you’re really into climbing, but who do you go with? And I just went, I go by myself. And they were like, why? And I said, well, you know, if I was waiting for- What else do you have to go? Well, it’s too complicated. You know, it’s like, you know, you got to find, they got to-
Jason Elkins (30:57.434)
there’s too many bits that got to fit together. So I literally would just, you know, I’m one of the first big trips I did was to Ecuador, I just found a I found a guide online. And he said, I’ve got an expedition starting next week, or it was in three days time. He’s like, you can join it. I was like, I’ll be there. You know, that’s a really, actually, that’s a really good point that comes up because that happens with a lot of different types of adventure travel, or even travel in general.
is there’s a lot of people out there that just have that, you know, they call wanderlust, whatever, they just gotta go, I’m definitely like that. It doesn’t mean everybody in your world is like that. And it can be, you know, really tough. So I love what you said about signing up for an expedition that’s already going. And I think that might be an opportunity for people to get involved. So like on your expeditions, can single people just sign up for that? Is what tips would you give to somebody that’s like, man, I’d love to do this, but nobody in my world is ever gonna do it.
How can they go about meeting the right people and joining an expedition that’s already gone? So there’s lots of operators. So what I did when I first started, in my mind, I had the expeditions that I wanted to do. So I first did Kilimanjaro, I did Kilimanjaro, I loved it. I just Googled search and at the time I didn’t have a lot of money. So my main concern was price point.
So I was just looking for the cheapest, most what looked credible from their website, what they could make out. I didn’t think too much about it. I was just like, okay, I want to go. I did a bit of research. I found out what I considered to be the best route from what I could find out online. And then I found a company that was doing a trip at around the time that I wanted to go. But I could have gone with 10 companies that I Googled. Then I wanted to do…
then I think the more that you get into it, then you get more immersed into it, then you have, you know, for example, straight away after Kilimanjaro, I was like, well, I now want to climb Mont Blanc because, you know, I understand that Kilimanjaro was amazing, but it’s not technical. It’s just a hike. I wanted to get into technical climbing, you know, alpinism. And we have Mont Blanc in Europe. So I was like, now I’m going to climb Mont Blanc. So I did my research. And you know, I was looking at the different Mont Blanc climbs. And at the time, I was, you know, I was super fit.
Jason Elkins (33:18.834)
And I was like, well, I don’t want to do the classic, you know, three day thing. I want to do a single day ascent where you go from the bottom to the top. So then I started, you know, I started Googling, you know, the guides in Chamonix and I think I messaged 10 people and the only guy that wanted to do, you know, all the companies said, sorry, we don’t offer that single day ascent and the only guy that, uh, came back to me was this British guy, Ben Bradford, he’s an IFMJ guy. He said, I’ve never done that, but I’ve always wanted to, I’ll do it with you. And so that’s how I ended up getting with him, you know, so
The more you get into it, the more you’ll understand the style that you want to do it, the mountains that you want to hit. And then you can, you know, you know, then you’ll start meeting people. But you know, for example, I’m going to go climbing in Ethiopia next year. I don’t know anybody in Ethiopia. So I’ve just been Googling and I’m looking at companies and I’m looking about the kind of itinerary that I want to go on. You know, and so that’s what I advise to people is that if you don’t know, if you don’t know
a company or a guide or you haven’t got a friend that’s done it, they can’t recommend you anyone. Obviously, that’s best and you’ve just got to, you know, try and sift through and work out who is good. And frankly, that’s part of why we’re doing this podcast, right Oliver is, you know, opportunity for it. So anybody that’s listening to this now knows somebody that does climbing that knows some climbs that, that they can have a conversation with them. And I know that you’re happy to have that conversation.
As a matter of fact, we’re gonna have your link to your website and contact details in the show notes. And we’re doing that with a bunch of different types of activities, different places as well, because yeah, if you don’t know somebody in an area, and even if somebody goes to, we do an interview here on the podcast, we post that interview on their website, you go, you have an opportunity to hear somebody and connect with somebody, maybe watch the video version.
as well. Because I think, I think a lot of the stuff is about personal connection. You know, do you feel connection with the person, right? I agree with you. And so one thing I would say on this, and, and perhaps that people don’t realize, and I didn’t realize this at the beginning is that there are a lot of people that you think are the operator, but they’re actually just a reselling agent. And you think you’re signing up for them, but they have actually just bought
Jason Elkins (35:36.798)
your tour from another operator. When you look at the T’s and C’s, you find out that that’s not actually your operator and that there’s another company. You could have actually gone to them direct and got a cheaper price. And so what I would say to people is try to speak to your expedition guide. So all my trips, they’re either guided by me or one of the guys that works for me. I’m not reselling anyone else’s trip. So I encourage people, call me.
let’s talk through the expedition. You can see that if you get a good feeling for how I do things or how I’m gonna do it, then it will give you confidence. But whichever company that you go with, I would always try and speak to your expedition guide or the CEO of the company and say, well, who’s gonna be running this expedition? And if they can’t tell you who it is and how they do it or why they like them, then I would look for another operator.
I think that’s a great point you bring up. I can see both sides of it. I’ve been around in the world long enough in marketing and with adventure tourism to see both sides of it. And I agree. If the operator that is doing the tour, the guy that’s leading the trip up the mountain is readily available and can have conversations and has ways to take deposits and manage the business end of it, then great. And…
And there’s also other scenarios where that person that’s leading the tours knows that they’re not good at that stuff, they don’t wanna get involved in that stuff. So they do work with other tour operators that put together trips for them. So I can see where it could work both ways. And I agree with you completely. You don’t probably wanna be booking a trip like this through somebody that’s sitting in a call center in India. Their website looks like they’re the ones walking up the mountain with you, but the people you’re talking to really have no idea.
what it’s all about. It’s just a, you know, get your money and, and send you down the road type of thing. So, so thanks for sharing that. I think, I think, you know, I wouldn’t say that’s always the case. If you’re just doing a one day experience and it’s a pretty generic trip and it’s cheap, then it’s less important. But you know, if you’re, if you’re going to be with somebody for nine days, you’re doing it, you’re doing a significant challenge with them. You know, it’s, I think it’s good to get a feel for, you know, how they do it.
Jason Elkins (37:59.102)
It all depends on your own level. When I did Kilimanjaro, I was in this phase where I was super fit. I was super unafraid of anything. I didn’t really care who the people that was, because I was like, well, I’ll manage myself for their uses. But if you’re all, let’s say you’re older or you’re newer to the outdoors and you need a bit of a confidence boost, then you should definitely have a more of a spoke trip.
and try to get hold of your guide and they will give you the confidence. They might even give you training tips. You’ll be able to, you know, like my clients, they will have my WhatsApp. You know, I, I spent a lot of time fielding questions about kit, you know, and I, and I love it. I love to see that people, um, you know, getting the right stuff. And I like to feel that people are getting, you know, looked after by me. And that’s, you know, I’m providing value for them because my trips are a bit more expensive than, you know, than other people’s. So, you know, it’s a case of also what you need, you know, and at that time,
I did Kilimanjaro, I didn’t need much. I was like, well, I’m going to go, I’m going to be very, not aggressive, but I was just super fit. I was fearless. I was like, well, if they’re useless, and they got rubbish food, I’ll manage. I didn’t care really. So it just depends what it is you need. And if price point is your main thing, you just want it as cheap as possible, then the reselling agents are great like that because you’ll find lots of trips that are really cheap, that run the whole time. You get a huge amount of
um, you know, variational dates, et cetera. But if you’re looking for something, it’s a bit more curated, a bit more bespoke, um, and you’re prepared to pay for it, then that’s when you need a kind of more, you know, curated experience and speak to the guide. So, you know, it’s, I’m not totally against the reselling agents or the platforms, you know, they’ve got a place too, but it’s for people looking for, uh, you know, that need less hand holding. Yeah. No, I, yeah, I agree with you completely.
And that’s kind of what I think for me anyway, is part of what separates kind of the adventure tourism from the mass tourism that, you know, you’re not booking a cruise ship, you’re booking a trip up a mountain and it’s not always about the money. So a lot of times it’s just about the time, you know, cause we talk about being price sensitive, but if you only have, you know, a couple of weeks vacation every year, that’s just as important to most people or sometimes more important than the amount of money they’re spending.
Jason Elkins (40:21.61)
So you wanna make sure that you’re going with the right person, that you’re gonna have a good experience because it’s the time as well. So the last time we spoke, you’d said something about just kind of the way things evolve in adventure sports and climbing, mountaineering around kind of ethics and people. And you suggested that we touch on that. I’m not sure exactly what you had in mind to share on that. But as you’ve been in this a while.
What are you seeing going on in the landscape that concerns you? Or what do you think that we as an industry need to do to keep things, keep things moving in the right direction? Well, I think, um, you know, I think it’s, I think ethics and sustainability are, you know, they’re hot topics and adventure travel at the moment. I think, um, probably at the time they’d just been the accident on Shisha Pangma. So that was probably the forefront of my mind, but I think, um, you know, fair wages for
operators that, so typically, like the countries that I’m operating in, Nepal, Tanzania, Ecuador, these are third world countries, developing countries. And so there are unscrupulous operators, logistics managers. And I think there are cases where people don’t get paid fairly, don’t get looked after properly.
You know, it can be the porters, they’re being made to carry too much weight or, or whatever it might be. So I think, you know, it’s important to try and, to try and find, you know, people that are that are doing things in the right way. And that means, you know, people that are conscious about the environmental impact of their tours, whether you know, you know, and also the impact on the local communities. Is that something you just get kind of a feel for when you’re
When you’re researching operators, having conversations with them, is there, are there kind of like red flags or key things that people should be looking for if they don’t know any better? Or is it just a good feel? I think it’s, I think it’s, you know, it’s hard for people that are, you know, in retail, so to speak. You know, for me, I’m buying, let’s say, you know, I’m buying the trips wholesale, you know, so I have partners in each country that effectively, you know, they are selling me their logistics and, you know,
Jason Elkins (42:48.806)
I’ve had operators that, you know, they say, well, we adhere to these standards. And, you know, this is, this is, you know, for example, for example, in Kilimanjaro, there is, you know, there’s a set of, of rules as to, as to what, you know, people should be paid, et cetera. And people can say that they’re adhering it to, and maybe they will, but then, you know, you do that track with that company or with that logistics partner, and then you hear on the ground that, you know, no one’s being paid on time.
And so, you know, it’s very difficult to work out, you know, who are the good guys, you know, who’s paying people properly, who’s paying people on time. You know, I think I think it is very difficult to find that out.
Right, no, absolutely. What else do you think, what else is important to have in this conversation? Because we’ve covered quite a few different things. And for anybody that’s listening to this, what have we left out? What do you think is important to discuss either about mountaineering or just adventure sports in general? Well, I think if you, you know, I would just, I would just say, I would just encourage everybody, you know, get as many adventures in as you can, you know, you’ll never regret doing an adventure. You know, I went to Peru in the summer.
I went to climb Alpamayo, I ended up not climbing Alpamayo, I ended up climbing Chopi Kauki, which is a 6000er. It was a great time, but my climbing partner, he got sick on a summit night. We ended up not summiting, but it was still an amazing trip. I had this most incredible experience. So it doesn’t matter necessarily. You might always get the outcome that you want, but you know…
never regret going to Peru having that experience. I loved it. So, you know, I would just encourage people, you know, if you’re thinking about having an adventure, whether it’s, you know, whatever it might be, climbing, trekking, or, you know, there’s so many different things that you can do, or even these multi-activity adventures that you do in Patagonia and these places where, you know, you have a day’s white river rafting, and then you do horse riding, whatever it might be. I think people will never regret having had these experiences. And I think
Jason Elkins (44:56.778)
You know, you just, you need to just get out and have as many of them as you can. And that’s all I’m trying to do really is plan incredible experiences for myself and my clients and, and just to enjoy them. Very cool. Love that. So we’re going to have your contact details in the show notes so people can reach out to you. Are there any big, uh, big trips or big developments that you were, I mean, you mentioned what you’re doing in Albania. Um, if you were to give a recap of the types of trips you offer and
things that you’re excited about. Just real quick, what are you offering your clients? So my next adventures are, I’m with a private group in Slovenia, and then I’ve got a big expedition to Kilimanjaro over New Year’s Eve, and that will be amazing. I think it’s a great time of year to go. I think, you know, New Year’s Eve, it’ll be even more special. Nice. Then we’re going Alpine climbing in Ecuador. That’s in January and February. And then we start,
the spring season in Nepal. So we do an ever space camp track and we do 6,000 is like Le Boucher and mirror peak and you know, we’ll have Kilimanjaro running at the same time. So there’s a kind of mix of things. I also do bespoke trips and corporate adventures. So there’s a lot happening. There’s something for everybody, I think, but if you’re looking for a starting point, then Kilimanjaro is the one, it’s an incredible experience. Very cool. Well, I might, I may be there around the same time you’re talking about. So they will. Great.
We’ll meet on the mountain or share some experiences. So thank you so much. Really appreciate you all for coming on the show and sharing some of your stories and, um, thoughts on all this stuff and look forward to working together with you on some projects in the future. So thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you.
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