Guest Bio
Ryan Powell is the Chief Operating Officer – Sales & Touring at andBeyond, a luxury experiential travel company. With over two decades of global leadership experience in sales, operations, strategic business development, and crisis management, Ryan has been instrumental in expanding andBeyond’s footprint across Africa, Asia, and South America. His passion for adventure travel and commitment to sustainable tourism have positioned andBeyond as a leader in the industry.
Show Summary
In this episode, Ryan Powell shares insights into his extensive career in the adventure travel industry. He discusses his journey from his early days in the industry to his current role at andBeyond, emphasizing the importance of sustainable tourism and community engagement. Ryan also highlights the challenges and opportunities in expanding into new markets and the role of innovation in enhancing guest experiences.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Sustainable Tourism: Prioritizing eco-friendly practices and community involvement is crucial for the industry’s future.
- ✓ Leadership: Effective leadership involves adaptability, strategic vision, and a commitment to continuous improvement.
- ✓ Market Expansion: Entering new markets requires cultural sensitivity, thorough research, and innovative approaches.
- ✓ Guest Experience: Enhancing guest experiences through personalization and attention to detail fosters loyalty and satisfaction.
- ✓ Resilience: Navigating challenges such as global crises necessitates resilience and proactive crisis management strategies.
What You’ll Find on andBeyond’s Platform
- ✓ Luxury Safari Experiences: Tailored safari adventures across various African destinations.
- ✓ Exclusive Lodges and Camps: Unique accommodations that blend luxury with local culture and environment.
- ✓ Conservation Initiatives: Opportunities to participate in and support wildlife conservation efforts.
- ✓ Community Engagement: Programs that connect guests with local communities and cultures.
- ✓ Custom Travel Planning: Personalized itineraries crafted to individual preferences and interests.
Learn more about andBeyond and connect with Ryan at:
https://www.andbeyond.com/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (03:24.054)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Super excited today we’ve got Ryan Powell from and andBeyond he is the chief operating officer for sales and touring at and andBeyond Ryan so happy to have you here.
Ryan Powell (03:40.262)
Thank you very much for having me, Jason. It’s good to be here.
Jason Elkins (03:43.37)
Where are you actually at right now as we’re recording this?
Ryan Powell (03:47.594)
I’m in Johannesburg in South Africa in a glorious little suburb called Parky. It’s one of the oldest suburbs in Johannesburg. It is hot as Hades here at the moment. We’re having a wonderful little heatwave as we go into summer. I don’t know whether you’ve got the reverse problem where you are, but that is where I find myself.
Jason Elkins (04:07.95)
OK, yeah, you’d mentioned that before I started recording. It’s pretty hot. So give us an idea. What is the temperature generally like there this time year in Celsius, Fahrenheit, whatever?
Ryan Powell (04:18.914)
Yeah, so it depends on where you are. In Johannesburg, where I am at the moment, it’s close to 100, which is not normal for us at this time of the year. But if you get down into places like Botswana, Botswana at this time of the year is particularly warm. That is around 45 degrees Celsius. So I think that for you, that’s about 110.
Jason Elkins (04:26.773)
Oh, okay.
Jason Elkins (04:45.07)
Holy cow.
Jason Elkins (04:49.218)
So we’re going to need to circle back around and discuss that a little bit because I’m sure some of our listeners are ready. Like I wasn’t you know, I was thinking about going to Africa, but I don’t know based on what Ryan just told me. So so let’s make sure we address that here a little bit later in the conversation. And before we do that, I really just kind of want to get to know a little bit about you, your story. You know, I find that people that work in the adventure travel space.
generally have a pretty interesting story. Either they were born into it, which is interesting, or they took a major transition of some sort. So I’m curious, what does your story look like?
Ryan Powell (05:26.594)
Yeah, it depends how far back you want me to go on this. I mean, I think when you speak to a lot of people, definitely the people I’ve spoken to, is you get two types. You get two types. Those who they had a calling and the new tourism was it. And then there are the others who fell into it by mistake. I’m of the latter variety. And so by trading, I’m a social scientist.
I did my undergraduate degree in psychology, industrial sociology. I realized in that journey that I probably like people less than I should and therefore being a psychologist is not a good place to be. But what I also realized on that journey is that I absolutely love Africa’s wild places. And if you… And I don’t know, by default, I ended up in the sales space.
which is a weird place to be for an introvert. But I think it’s because of the passion that Africa is a destination creates in me and in the people that you engage with that it makes it a bit like this conversation. You’re talking to a friend. And when you’re having those kinds of conversations, then your proclivities for people are less important.
And so, you know, that is sort of how I started my journey. I worked for eight years for Abercrombie and Kent, looking after their safari camps throughout Africa on the sales side. And then I realized I was missing particularly commercial skills and disciplines that I wasn’t gonna get in the time that I wanted if I continued on that journey. So I left tourism and I did…
a Masters in Business for two years and then I did a couple of years in management consultancy which was the best worst mistake I ever had. It was drinking from a fire hydrant but the skill set that it gave me in a very short space of time you know helped me to realize that the skills and the knowledge that I have and the passions that I have are best served back in
Ryan Powell (07:50.606)
then and andBeyond in 2012, just as I was starting a family. And I’ve been there since. I made my initial commitment to Joss, I see for a three year journey. I wanted to turn around the experience on my CV and andBeyond had a fascinating tale and a fascinating history. I got to the end of the first three years and Joss was, that was fun, wasn’t it? I was like, yeah, that was fun. I was like, how about another three years? I said, okay.
three more years and those three years turn into 12 years.
Jason Elkins (08:20.215)
Hehehe
Jason Elkins (08:24.986)
And here we are. I’m curious. When you were doing the consulting, and you said you kind of realized maybe tourism is where I do want to be, was there anything specific in there? I’d love to dig a little deeper into that. Were you working with a variety of different types of industries, or just kind of what happened?
Ryan Powell (08:44.718)
So industry wise, I spent time in upstream energy exploration. I spent time in fast moving consumer goods and financial services. Some project and program management in financial services and a little bit in sales transformation doing implementations of Salesforce. And those are great, but those kinds of things…
don’t exactly, well, for me, they didn’t inspire me to, there wasn’t a place where I realized I could leave a mark. It was fortuitous because during that time, the consultancy was going through a restructure. My wife had Jennifer just fallen pregnant with our son, Joshua, and we were like, man, there’s gotta be more to life than this. And at that point,
Jason Elkins (09:37.006)
So she was supportive, it sounds like. You mentioned her as part of this conversation. So I’d love to, because that comes up sometimes. We’ve got partners and spouses that may not be as excited about things as we are. And I’m curious how she dealt with that and what that was like for her.
Ryan Powell (09:57.154)
Yeah, it was an easy transition for us. I mean, when we decided to come back to South Africa, Jen’s, both our families were here, our support bases were back in South Africa. I’d sort of come into contact with Josh on the CEO side, and he presented me with a wonderful opportunity to get involved with the business. But when we came back, that sort of opportunity hadn’t crystallized, and so I nearly went back into financial services.
I met the director team of And Beyond. And within the space of meeting, I think I had my first interview over breakfast at 7.30 in the morning. I had my second interview at around midday of the same day. And then I had my job offer at the end of the day. And so you take, that was, it felt right.
Jason Elkins (10:44.087)
Thanks.
Jason Elkins (10:49.857)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Powell (10:49.918)
The business was looking to do things that I wanted to focus my time and energy on. And Jen was really supportive. She worked for British Airways on the marketing side. And so she was prepared. She was going to travel backwards and forwards from London until Joshua arrived. And it all just fell into place. And it worked nicely. There was flow, as they call it.
Jason Elkins (11:15.266)
Yeah, very cool. I’m curious, was there one thing that kind of stood out in your mind this day that you were doing the interview process, was there one thing that stood out in your mind that got you most excited about the opportunity?
Ryan Powell (11:28.254)
Yeah, there was. I mean, from my time at Abercrombie and Kent, I’d always admired and andBeyond. They’d always done things very, very differently. They spoke about guest satisfaction and about looking after the guest, the guest experience. And they delivered on that in a way that was very unique to the African travel industry.
And even if you look at some of the key players in the space now, whether it be someone like, you know, an organization like Zanguita or Swalu to even Londalose, I mean, all those organizations are connected to and andBeyond the old CC Africa back into the days when they were founded. You know, and so that is you don’t get opportunities to get involved with an organization like that too often. What really drew me in?
was the admiration for what they did as on the guest experience side. But at the same time, also the inability to turn a profit. Yeah. And so it was an organization that we were, that I was coming to at that point in time that hadn’t turned a profit in 20 years. And so, as I said, when we, a couple of minutes ago, that turnaround experience was a wonderful carrot.
And the challenge and the gloriousness of our business is that the more time you spend in our business, you fall in love. And when I say fall in love, the love comes from an organization that lives its values. And I’ve been in many companies where there’s three or four values that sit up on a wall. Everyone refers to them occasionally. But people don’t really live them.
too much. And this was an organization that braced its values top to tail, even at the shareholder level. And you look at how our shareholders behaved during COVID, that for me was a realization that top to tail, this organization walked the talk. And that you don’t find often.
Jason Elkins (13:26.872)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (13:46.962)
No, very, very cool. I get it. And there’s so many people, I think that would look at an opportunity to join an organization like that and say, wow, this is great. I really, you know, I align with their values, but they’re not making money. You know, but maybe, you know, maybe I can’t take advantage of this opportunity or wow, what a lot of pressure was, was the stage kind of set that, okay, Ryan, we want you to come in here and help us turn that around.
And I mean, was it pretty clear that was gonna be part of your mission? And on all the pressure that goes along with that.
Ryan Powell (14:22.53)
It was very clear that was part of the mission. But the way Joss, if you ever get a chance to have a conversation with Joss Kent, our CEO, his clarity of vision and his ability to articulate that made it a very easy decision because you knew that the person who was running, who was steering the ship knew exactly what they wanted to achieve.
And I think Ambiont as a business is blessed with exceptional leaders in the organization. And so I was one part of a broader team. And every single person in that team came to the party in order to deliver on what Josh wanted. I don’t know how much you read biographies and that. Jeff Bezos of Amazon, he says that in every single one of your shareholder letters,
that anything worth doing is hard and it’s never easy. And this was one of those, and today is no different to the day I started 12 years ago. It’s just a different kind of heart.
Jason Elkins (15:29.826)
No, that’s very cool. And it’s definitely that adventurous spirit because whether it’s, you know, I believe people can be very adventurous in business pursuits, all kinds of things. We’re having a conversation about adventure travel. So, but it’s, I can see where those would align. And that’s one of the fascinating things I’ve recognized as I’ve been in the business is I meet these people that, you know, are not risk averse. They’re, you know, they’re willing to go out there and do these things, whether that’s…
I don’t know, wingsuiting in Switzerland, scuba diving somewhere, or just taking a business, or taking a choice to change careers. I’ve spoken with a lot of people that were quite successful. You mentioned financial services and engineering and all these different things that they were doing. And now they’re leading an organization or part of an organization that’s focused on a business that many people don’t even understand exists.
Ryan Powell (16:08.75)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (16:26.294)
You know, like, can you really, how can you, can you really work in tourism? Is that really a job or so? So it’s very, very cool.
Ryan Powell (16:33.242)
And then I mean, that’s a it’s a key point, Jason, because I think one of the biggest challenges we face as an industry is how we get a new swathe of people into our organizations to help us drive tourism forward. I don’t you know, I speak to probably 20 to 30 different organizations a week. Partners, you know, international trade partners, competitors, suppliers.
And the common thread through all of those is we can’t find people. It’s normally we can’t find good people, you know, but I think, but my, my answer to that is always, you know, you never joined your, you never joined the company you were in. You were good overnight. You know, good takes time, you know? And so you, you want the, you want the right skillset and you want people to show ability and those are the people you grow, then they will be good people. And then it’s your job to hold onto that.
Jason Elkins (17:28.054)
Right, would you say that’s across the board from every level, all the way from the camp staff, the logistics, sales, marketing, everything? Or does it seem to be a bigger issue in certain parts of the industry?
Ryan Powell (17:45.058)
Yeah, I mean, it’s in I can’t speak for the industry at large in terms of our space, you know, at a camp level We struggle with Guides and chefs. I think chefs are probably the most in demand One of the most in demand skill sets globally And when you see where our people are going to Man, like they are being pulled into all four corners of the earth
Guides, as I said, are the other one. Camp managers or managers are other people who are in quite high demand. And then from a tour operating point of view, consultants. It takes a long time to become a really, really good consultant. The same way it takes you a long time to develop the skillset to be a really good manager and reader of people and developer of people.
And through COVID, I think a large number of organizations either let those people go in order to survive, or people left the industry because tourism is typically the first one to suffer with, regardless of what it is. Pick a bad time and tourism is the industry that gets to feel it first. And people just, they were tired of the volatility and they wanted something different. Or they were like, that’s enough, man.
Tourism is for a lot of people is a labor of love. Find me a tourism professional who only works nine hours a day. They don’t exist, not in my book. Tourism is always on, always on, always ready profession.
Jason Elkins (19:24.978)
I love that you threw that part in because that is an important realization. I think a lot of people that go into some of the entry-level jobs in tourism, especially if it’s kind of like, you know, they want to work for the summer between, you know, college or whatever, and they maybe sometimes mistakenly go into it with this idea that, oh, I’m going to be on vacation and I’m going to get to go see and do all these things. And you really, in my opinion, you really have to love people. You have to be really excited about sharing experiences.
in order to put in the work and effort to be successful. Anyway, I’m curious. So if and andBeyond and maybe other organizations similar to and andBeyond that are looking for people to bring in, would you say it’s fairly open to people that want to do a career change if somebody is listening to this right now and they’ve been doing real estate or they’ve been doing some other sort of business?
and they’re in their 40s, early 50s, and they’re like, man, I’ve always wanted to do this. Are there opportunities there or are you typically looking for younger folks? What are you looking for?
Ryan Powell (20:35.882)
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s different answers to that question. You know, when we look at our partners who support us as a brand, on the retail advisor level, there’s a lot of people there who’ve made career changes, from being lawyers and engineers, bankers, or whatever it is. And they’ve had a passion for travel.
And their friends have said, well, you did such a great job on that last trip. Can you help me put something together? And they’re like, oh, I could do this as a career. I think those kinds of moves are relatively easy to make. When you’re looking at, you know, if you’re a school teacher and you want to go and run a safari camp, that transition is far harder. And, you know, we have tried it.
We’ve taken people from outside of the industry who have a love for people and they show the ability and capability. And then they realize after six months, hang on a second, I’ve been working for six months, seven days a week. When do I get a day off? And then people fall out of love a little bit.
Jason Elkins (21:45.782)
Ryan, what’s-
Ryan, I’m curious. So what’s the difference in your mind? Because you specifically mentioned maybe lawyers, engineers, that type, and it’s not that difficult. And then you specifically mentioned teachers. So I’m going to ask, what is the difference in your mind between a teacher that’s been teaching for 20 years and a lawyer that’s been working for 20 years that wants to move into tourism? In general, I know it’s a generalization.
Ryan Powell (22:14.426)
None. Yeah, yeah, to be honest, I think it’s none. It was just an example from memory. I think what makes a successful transition for individuals who are going into the advisor space are people who are really well connected. So we often term it as a kitchen top consultant or kitchen top business. The barriers to tourism are really, really low.
have an idea today that you want to be, you’re gonna start a tourism business. You can register that business in a relatively short space of time. You can have a website up and running within 10 days. And then you have a contact list of people who you’ve known, who are in either high powered or who do a good job and they earn well, you have a reputation with them already, they trust you, you’re a trusted advisor.
and they are prepared to travel with you. That’s a lot of these small one-man, two-man tour operators and retail travel advisors, that’s how they start their businesses. And then they, in the US now with independent consultants, they go and join a larger travel company that takes ICs and they’re leveraging of all the infrastructure and all the negotiated rates and all the supplier relationships.
And you can be up and running in 30 days. You know, I think we need to be easy.
Jason Elkins (23:42.702)
Okay, so that’s from the kind of the advisor standpoint. And that makes a lot of sense. That’s actually, I worked in real estate for a while. I specifically mentioned that. I took a few years from tourism and did real estate and it was kind of the same thing. If you’ve got kind of a group of people, if you’ve already had people coming to you asking for advice, it’s easier to kind of build that independent advisorship or IC type of relationship. So then I wanna go back to…
Because yeah, you mentioned teacher, but you also actually probably more importantly, specifically mentioned going and running a camp where it’s more of an employee type of role. It’s okay. I’m leaving everything behind. I’m going to move to Africa and run a camp or maybe I live in Africa or whatever. Um, so it sounds like that’s really the difference is jumping into full-time employment or regular type of employment. Is that right?
Ryan Powell (24:19.472)
Yeah.
Ryan Powell (24:28.377)
Yeah.
Ryan Powell (24:36.382)
Yeah, I mean, I think there’s different things there. One is, you know, it sounds really glamorous to be running a camp in the heart of the Serengeti. But the reality is you’re in the heart of the Serengeti and you don’t leave there for six weeks. So that is one challenge. And, you know, the glamour of it, all the shininess of that wears off quite fast.
The other element of that is, you know, getting work permits into most places in Africa is really, really difficult. And in some places, it’s near impossible, and that now. And so you may get one permit if you have a really scarce skill, but to continually get permits renewed is quite tough. And so it’s not a bad thing too, because it creates wonderful opportunities for locals, wherever we operate.
But those are typically the two stumbling blocks that we have. The third stumbling block is, you know, I was a lawyer, and I’d really like to come and work in sales for you guys. Love your brand. You know, sales don’t earn lawyer salaries, particularly at the kind of level that you’re coming to organizations. So that mismatch of things tends to cause a bit of a rub.
Jason Elkins (25:55.178)
And then sometimes that’s where those family dynamics come into play. When your partner or your family is like, what are you doing? OK, I get that. And I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, I did the managed a lodge in Belize off the coast of Belize for eight months, you know, with my ex-wife and we were so excited. It was amazing. Well, no, actually, it was kind of a test.
Ryan Powell (26:04.995)
Yeah.
Ryan Powell (26:12.499)
Oh, cool.
Ryan Powell (26:16.462)
I hope that’s not the reason she’s your ex-wife, Jesse.
Jason Elkins (26:22.458)
We were together for a long time. We were still have a great relationship, but she actually when I met her, I told her I’m going to go manage a lodge in Belize someday. So you just need to know that if you’re on board, then you can hang out with me. If not, then you should know that. And she’s like, where is Belize? And I said, well, I’m not really sure, but I’ve I’d already I met someone at a lodge that I was managing in Montana. I met somebody that told me about this place in Belize, and I got it in my head that I was going to go manage it. And eventually.
you know, the owner came and interviewed us for the job running the lodge. And she’s like, okay, I guess you were kind of serious about this. And so I proposed to her that I think several days before we left, I proposed and we actually had our wedding ceremony the last day after eight months on the island. We had our wedding ceremony there with all the staff and the guests and it was actually quite magical. And when people ask me, why were you only there eight months?
Ryan Powell (27:12.038)
Amazing.
Jason Elkins (27:18.922)
Well, it wasn’t quite as romantic as we thought it was going to be. The first, you know, the first three weeks we’d walk out to the end of the dock. And, you know, we were on an island 30 miles offshore and we’d walk out to the end of the dock and sit there and watch the waves break on the reef. And that was the first three weeks. We didn’t do that, you know, and then our idea of date night was we’d go sit in our room and eat a bag of Doritos or something because we had to snag it out of the kitchen. Because that was.
Ryan Powell (27:38.597)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (27:46.574)
because we didn’t want to have dinner with the guests that night. So it was a wonderful experience. But yeah, I do understand the challenges there. So Ryan, if somebody is listening to this, and I know this is a broad question because there’s so many different types of people. We’ve already discussed a few different things. But if someone, I guess I’m not going to give you an example. You just go with which one ever comes to you. But somebody’s listening to this like, man, I’ve always wanted to work in tourism.
Ryan Powell (27:51.846)
Thank you.
Jason Elkins (28:15.862)
We’ve shared some stuff already. I’m ready. I’ve got my resume ready. I’m gonna take action. What would you suggest generally? Is it the typical shoot out all your resumes and hope something happens? Or do you have advice on how to connect with people like yourself? I mean, should they start a podcast and reach out to you or?
Just kidding. But I’m just curious, like, what advice do you give to people and say, man, I want to get into the space. Where should I start?
Ryan Powell (28:38.39)
Is that you asking for a job, Jason?
Ryan Powell (28:47.906)
you know. Hi.
It’s interesting because this is a bit of a journey that I’ve been on, particularly in the last two years. And I think the answer to that is do what you love. There are very few times in our lives where you get to find and pursue things that you love. And if tourism is that, then it’s great. But then it’s about finding what it is about tourism that you really love.
Is it about putting trips together? Because then that’s the easy part. Is it the operational aspect, making it tied all together? Then I’m more than happy to have that conversation. I expect I can have that conversation on the first one, too. We have a very strong part of our business that looks after the consumer. But I think the simple answer to that is find the part of the tourism industry that you love most.
And if you don’t know what part of that of that industry it is, then speak to people who are in the industry, you know, because it is it’s huge. You know, it’s amazing when you speak to people how broad the industry actually is outside of just being a tour operator or a travel advisor or, you know, working in a hotel. It’s like they are what, 100 plus different types of roles that you can serve in a hotel. That’s I think that’s so that would be my mustier.
Jason Elkins (30:17.998)
Well, thank you. That’s actually a big part of why I created this podcast was to create those conversations because I wanted to have conversations as I, you know, kind of reincorporate myself back into the community, into the tribes. I just want to have these conversations. I thought, you know what, I’m sure other people would as well. So my hope is and why I asked you that question, my hope is that people are listening to this that are maybe sitting on the sitting on the fence and well, should I do it? Could I do it? I want to do it. And so thank you for sharing, sharing that a bit of
insight that’s very valuable.
Ryan Powell (30:50.146)
No, and it’s a pleasure. And if I could just add one thing to that, Jason, I would say, if they, I don’t know what your demographic is, but if they are individuals who are in high school, coming out of high school, into college, and they do not know what they want to do with themselves, travel, you know, and you’ll learn very quickly. Travel is the most glorious industry in the world, and it’s the most glorious, I said, I nearly said a habit. It is a habit for some.
Jason Elkins (30:52.898)
Please.
Ryan Powell (31:21.751)
But it is the best education that you can have and reward yourself with. And we said as a family, it’s the thing that we will do the most of for our children, because it opens your eyes. And I think that the world would be a far kinder place if more people traveled and really immersed themselves. I’m not talking about the travel where you are sitting in a bus having someone talk to you and you don’t get to actually engage with local people and local cultures.
You travel where you get to engage and learn and experience. That’s the stuff that changes your life. And if you are in that young bracket and you’ve done that kind of thing, you’ll look at the world a very, very different way afterwards, particularly on topics around global warming or conservation. Experiencing those things firsthand, you realize what a big job.
not to say a big job, but a large role that you can play in leaving the world a better place. That’s corny because that’s one of our taglines, but it’s not just about saving species or saving wild open spaces. It’s all about helping people be more tolerant of each other.
Jason Elkins (32:40.642)
I’m happy you added that because I agree. I think it’s super, super important. I have worked in tourism for a long time. And recently, within the last couple of years, I’ve been traveling full time. And I’m actually in Colombia right now. And I’ve been traveling full time. And what I’ve noticed, I’m a little older than the typical backpacker that takes the gap year. But.
But I’m but I’m experiencing it and I’m seeing a lot of Europeans. I’m seeing a lot of people from different places in the world that are taking advantage of that or following your advice that they never heard directly from you. And they are out traveling. It’s it seems like it’s more common for some cultures to take that year or two off and go travel and see the world and have those experiences. And I got to tell you, when I meet a 22, 23 year old German guy at a coffee shop
or a young lady from Slovenia or wherever, and they’re out exploring their level of, I’m gonna say maturity, their level of experiences, their ability to have a conversation about different places, their ability to just interact with people is really powerful when you contrast that to, and I’m not saying this in a judgmental way, but when you contrast that to somebody who’s,
40, 50 that’s never left their home state. I’m not saying they’re not intelligent, not mature, but it’s just a different level. And it’s an opportunity that I really would like to see everybody try and take advantage of. And it doesn’t have to be expensive. I can tell you that right now. So anybody listening to this, oh, travel has to be expensive. You don’t need to go to the five star luxury safari camps to travel the world and explore. I learned that…
Ryan Powell (34:20.868)
Hmm.
Ryan Powell (34:33.135)
No, we prefer that.
Jason Elkins (34:34.802)
Yeah. I mean, in reality, I’ve been traveling for two years, spending a lot less money than I was spending sitting in my apartment in Arizona, driving my car around. I, you know, everything I own is in my suitcase, right? Probably can see it right back there on the floor. But so it doesn’t need to be expensive. And especially with the ability to work and do projects remotely.
You know, you can find an opportunity if you need to finance yourself as you’re traveling. So anyway, so thank you for sharing that. I agree with you. I think it’s super important.
Ryan Powell (35:08.558)
Yeah, it’s a pleasure. I mean, I think the other element of that too, and you touched on it there, is that sitting across a bar counter, whether it’s over a beer or over a coffee, political views don’t matter. Your upbringing doesn’t matter. Where you were educated doesn’t matter. Your race, color, creed, religion, or anything between doesn’t matter. It’s two people sitting in a bar learning about each other.
Ryan Powell (35:37.182)
The reason I think that’s important, I think people, again, as a generalization, we’ve forgotten how to have a conversation that doesn’t have the ability for us at the end of the conversation to say, I appreciate your view. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I appreciate your view. Everyone has to be in my camp, has to agree with my set of views, whether it’s climate change or whether a species needs to be saved or anything in between. And that’s why…
That for me is why I love travel. That’s why I started traveling, is because I got to experience cultures and see different points of views and whether I agreed with them or not, that was still people’s cultures. And…
Jason Elkins (36:18.702)
Well, and at least you see them as people. It’s not just these ideas that you’ve heard on the news, these conflicts, these very filtered things that you hear and see on the news. When you can sit down with somebody from Russia or from Ukraine and have a conversation with them about what’s going on as opposed to just, you know, and again, you may not agree with everything. You may have different perspectives, but it just really changes it. Do you remember Star Wars? And I don’t know which,
which one of the three, but the original trilogy, there was the bar, like the space bar where they were at and there was people from all over the universe and all these different alien types speaking in all their different languages and this and that. And to me, I’ve had a few experiences like that and traveling, especially if you go stay at a hostel somewhere, you know, I stayed at a hostel in Kuala Lumpur and I remember one night we’re up on the roof, they had a social get together. And there was, you know, a guy from
From Ireland, there was a guy from Singapore. There was a woman from France and the Seychelles. It’s just all these people come together. Fortunately, a lot of travelers speak English. So, at different levels, I’m working on my Spanish. But anyway, we’re all just sitting there in this guy from Saudi Arabia, which actually he’s the first person that I’ve really had a connection with from Saudi Arabia.
And he was great. And most of the people were sitting there with a beer doing his thing and he’s doing his thing and he steps away to go do his prayer and he comes back and then he’s dancing and we’re all just having so much fun getting to know each other. And at that moment, I was just like, all these barriers and these politics that we think of just was not there and it was super cool. And that’s what you get to experience when you go travel. And it’s really hard to get that without traveling. I don’t know how you’d get it without traveling, honestly.
Ryan Powell (38:05.466)
Thank you.
Ryan Powell (38:12.966)
I agree. Yeah, I’m not sure either. And I think that is when you talk about things like sustainability, that big scary word, climate change, until you have the ability to see the impact of things like that or conservation, and you can see it in action, and you can see how big the mountain is that you have to climb, then that’s when you’re prepared to make a personal life choice on it.
Jason Elkins (38:14.722)
So.
Ryan Powell (38:41.918)
I liken it to somebody who sees a marathon, the Kenyan marathoner, Kipchoge, who broke the two-hour marathon mark. He didn’t wake up one morning and think, hey, I’m going to go and break a two-hour marathon mark. There are years and years and years worth of self-sacrifice and changing lifestyle and living in a very specific way.
to get to the point that they need to do. And when you’re talking about sustainability and conservation, it’s exactly the same thing. Those small decisions and those small habits, they’ve got to start with you and they don’t. There’s an African saying, which is, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. It is, it’s that. And if you make those changes one at a time, but you’ve seen them in action somewhere else, that’s where you get the real long lasting.
initiative is that and lifestyle changes that people stick to.
Jason Elkins (39:44.926)
Absolutely. And I’m sure you see these transformations happening probably with your staff as well, because it’s not just our guests, right? It’s we see it with our staff, because our staff doesn’t always arrive on the first day with a full comprehension of what’s going on in the world. But they’re kind of like me in a sense. I was in Malaysia having these conversations with people from all over the world, but your staff is too, right?
Ryan Powell (40:13.51)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (40:13.854)
on a daily basis, you know, think of your guides or your lodge managers or, you know, have this constant opportunity to engage and both share something about the local environment that they’re in, but also learn about all these different areas. So I’m, I’m curious. So when we kind of think about transformational change and mindset shifts and stuff like that, do you have a memory or an experience of a guest that just was like, wow, that’s why I’m doing this?
Because I saw something, whether it’s relationship-wise or conservation or whatever. I see you’re smiling. For anybody that’s not listening, he’s got a big grin. So I know there’s a story. So Ryan, tell us.
Ryan Powell (40:58.35)
You know, it’s and that’s why I say when I when I joined the business, I joined the business, you know, because of the what I knew the business was doing and because I wanted the turnaround experience. Fast forward 12 years, we still have a business that is wholly focused on guest experience. It is the center of everything that we do. So we’ve got three C’s in our business. Care of the land, care of the wildlife and care of the people and guest experience. It’s right in the middle of that.
And I read every single piece of guest feedback that comes in into the organization, whether it’s in Africa, Asia, or South America. And I can’t tell you, I would say conservatively, three to five times a week, there is a piece of guest feedback that comes in there saying, that was the best experience I’ve ever had. You’ve changed my life. I’ll never travel with anyone else.
And we get, and I’ll make it real, we have a wonderful guest, I’m not going to use names, who traveled with us and they went up into Mozambique and they stayed at Ben Guerra Island Lodge. And their time at Ben Guerra Island Lodge, they were introduced to our Oceans Without Borders ambassador, and they went to go out and spend some time looking at Dugong, which is similar to amenity. It’s one of that area of the ocean, it’s one of two areas in the world where they still breed.
and they came back from that day observing Dewgong. They got to spend time seeing our foundation people work with local communities to try and to make them make people realize because it will not make them realize but to show individuals the importance of sustainable fishing.
and working in small businesses and seeing the work we do on the clinic side on the island. They have become one of our largest donors into Mozambique. They have built a hospital, they’ve built a school, they sponsored the deployment of all the echo arrays around the island so we can do, because we do shark monitoring as well as do-go-ong.
Ryan Powell (43:10.058)
and total work on that side. And so that kind of experience has transformed the way they look at the world. You know, and that is one example of about 500, if you had the time, that I could regale you with. We have wonderful guests.
Jason Elkins (43:24.139)
So that was a guest, just to make sure I’ve got my head around that. That was a guest that booked a trip, wasn’t on any sort of familiarization thing. They just booked a trip, came, were exposed to what you guys were doing and what other people were doing as well, because it all works together, right? And wow, that’s pretty cool. Yeah, that’s got to make you sleep well at night, knowing that, you know, yeah, that’s cool.
Ryan Powell (43:27.535)
That was a guest.
Ryan Powell (43:41.134)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It does. And it’s always interesting for me when you read all these trend reports about people saying, oh, sustainability is a key buying factor. It’s like, ah, bollocks. Like a large swathe of our guests, it was not part of their buying decision when they came to us. Our trade partners are asking more questions, which is the right thing to do. I wish more guests would ask.
hard questions of the people that they are working through too. But it’s when our guests are in camp, you know, they pick up a piece of collateral and they’re reading it. This is a typical journey, just to give you an idea. Arriving camp, they get someone has a conversation with them about what we do as a business and where we’re located. They’re like, oh, okay, that’s cool. They pick up in their room, they pick up a piece of collateral like, oh man, you guys have got cool projects here. I tell you what, could you show me that?
Like with pleasure, we’d love to show you that. Guests spend time on the project or in a community or doing something with people. And they’re like, man, that’s great. Tell me, what percentage, if I make a donation today, what percentage of that donation goes to the project? And depending on where we are, it’s between 90% and 100%. And it’s normally a small donation. It’s like $100 or $200.
And then when they’re on that, they get told, they get a brief on the project as things sort of roll out. And then on the back end of that, they’re like, ah, now I get it, now I trust. And let’s do something more. And we get guests who pick up entire projects, whether it be schools. Our projects typically are in the education space, in the healthcare space, small business development, particularly for women. And then obviously conservation.
But when people then get to experience that firsthand, it’s like, okay, now I understand. I also understand what role I can play. And that for me is what gets me out of bed. It’s not being in sales and operations and making sure things run smoothly and sometimes not so smoothly. It is seeing the impact that if we do it right, it is seeing the excitement on guests’ faces say, okay.
Ryan Powell (45:57.154)
we will come back. And we have some guests, about 50% of our guests are repeat guests to us. In some cases, they travel with us more than three times in a year. And that is the really exciting part. And so to go back to your question about our staff, that is what makes our staff tech. We have an award ceremony every year called our Battle Awards, where we celebrate winners out of each of our regions who best live our values.
And that for me is the best time of the year. Don’t hear my family say that. They think it’s Christmas. As far as I’m concerned, it’s our BATLY award ceremonies. Because the quality of the stories and the commitment that people have to leaving their communities and impacting their communities is so inspirational. And often, it’s the people that have the least who are doing such amazing work.
Jason Elkins (46:55.602)
It’s very cool. I will share that in my mind, beautiful places tend to give us a good excuse to go there. But for me, the adventure travel really is about the connections that we create there with. So I love you. You mentioned communities. And you’ve got the staff, the guests, all that stuff. It’s about that connection. And yeah, you guys obviously have that figured out.
And Ryan, I want to make sure that we touch on, I want to make sure that everybody that’s listening to this, when they’re finished with the interview, they have a pretty clear idea of what and andBeyond offers. We don’t need to go into everything, but I promised you when we spoke earlier that we’d have an opportunity to discuss a little bit about what and andBeyond where they are. Because you mentioned Asia, South America, Africa. Traditionally, it was Africa, right? It started in Africa.
Ryan Powell (47:46.982)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Powell (47:51.371)
Mm-hmm, correct, in South Africa.
Jason Elkins (47:51.49)
but it’s expanded. So share a little bit about just kind of the areas you guys have projects and anything that you’re really excited about right now that you wanna make sure the listeners know about.
Ryan Powell (48:02.39)
Yeah, it’s funny that the things that really excite me are actually it’s what we plan for the future. So as part of our X-Co, we’ve just finished our 2030 strategy and what we’re walking towards as a business. And so I’m gonna tell you the why first and then I’m gonna tell you the how after, if that’s okay. So you’re gonna get a long answer to a short question.
Jason Elkins (48:26.666)
I think Simon Sinek would approve. Go ahead. Ha ha.
Ryan Powell (48:32.232)
So from the why for us is, you know, as much as we’ve had the most amazing impact over the last 30 years, we are looking at doubling that impact in the course of the next seven. And so just to say, what does that impact mean?
So for us, for every guest and for every bed night that travels with us, $125 of every bed night goes to conservation, sustainability, community upliftment. And we are looking at doubling that by 2030. And we are looking at either influencing or conserving 40 million acres of land between now and 2030. So that is a bit of the why.
What’s really driven that is and so here’s maybe something, you know for you for your listeners if they want to know Why this is important to us and why it should be important to them Quick question for you is over the last 30 years. How many species do you think have gone extinct?
Jason Elkins (49:35.915)
Oh, probably more than I think.
Jason Elkins (49:42.85)
Great question. I’m not sure I’m going to say 300. I’m going to say 300, and I have a feeling you’re going to tell me.
Ryan Powell (49:45.99)
Take it to the number.
Ryan Powell (49:52.802)
You’re missing three zeros on the back of that. So 300,000 species that have gone extinct over the last 30 years. Do you want to know how many species have been saved or brought back from the edge of extinction in the last 30 years?
Jason Elkins (49:54.838)
Really? Yeah, man. Wow.
Jason Elkins (50:05.582)
10.
Ryan Powell (50:07.418)
28, so not a bad guess, but 28. And so it’s not getting any easier on that side. And again, when you look at what people value the most now, people value wide open spaces and connection. And people want to get back to nature. But those things are all under a significant amount of pressure. Even in the US, when you look at the great work that
Jason Elkins (50:09.441)
Yeah.
Ryan Powell (50:33.986)
that guys like Ted Turner are doing around their reserves and the reintroduction of gray wolves and the protection of land mass. That is a problem that is occurring everywhere in the world. And so that is really what’s driving our why. Our how for us is, you know, that drives our expansions. Wherever we can influence care of the land, wildlife and people.
that is where we want to go as an organization. And so we’ve chosen to go as it currently stands into South America, Asia, and Africa. We typically have a model where our lodges and our camps and our touring operations, so the tour operating side of things or the destination management side of things, they go hand in hand together. And the biggest reason for that is a lodge has a very limited earning potential.
Once you, depending on the size of the property for us, we like to be in the 12 to 15 room space, sometimes a little bit smaller, sometimes a little bit bigger. That’s the average sort of size. Once you start reaching about 75% occupancy, you really, that’s where you are maxing out your revenue earning potential in a lodge. And then you have to start playing with things like commissions and all kinds of other things, which just make people very upset.
Jason Elkins (51:35.542)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Powell (51:51.766)
But the other way to supercharge your ability to earn revenue is the integrated touring side that sits around that. Because now I’m not just selling my bed, I’m selling other people’s beds. And typically for us, it’s people who have like-minded views on conservation sustainability. And when you’re doing that, that is a really big free cash flow generator and allows you to do so much more. So for us to take our 125 to 500.
Jason Elkins (52:05.646)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Powell (52:21.83)
is we are looking at new destinations and new product, but they will always be tied together. So when does this go to air? Just so I can make sure I’m not breaking my own embargo.
Jason Elkins (52:33.302)
Boy, well, let’s not say anything you don’t think you should be saying. Let’s pretend it’s going live tomorrow. It is early December and Ryan, actually, I do believe I’ve got you slated to come out in early 2024, so I pretty much just committed by saying that. So.
Ryan Powell (52:48.418)
And then I’m not breaking any embargo rules. And so our next port of call is we actually go, we have purchased and are busy refurbishing a ship in the Galapagos, which is really exciting. And so that takes our, expands our footprint on the South American side. We are also opening a new lodge in Northern Kenya in Lakepia called Suyuan.
Jason Elkins (53:00.095)
Oh, cool.
Ryan Powell (53:14.79)
which adds a significant amount of land under management working with space for giants. And we are also opening a lodge in Rwanda and that too. So we’ll be in the process of acquiring land in that there. But again a bit of a different approach for us because the Rwandan government are expanding their national park. We are purchasing land that is on the outskirts of that park.
And once we have built the lodge, we will donate all that land back to the government for incorporation into the national park. Yeah, which is pretty cool. And then also, you know, we’ve just opened our first lodge in Bhutan and that too. So that takes us as it currently stands to 29 lodges and camps. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (53:47.339)
Wow, okay.
Jason Elkins (53:55.155)
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that.
Okay, so Bhutan, this is your first operation in Bhutan, right?
Ryan Powell (54:03.694)
It’s our first owned operation in Asia. So we had a partnership with Taj many years ago for Tiger Lodges in Madhya Pradesh. And so we reversed ourselves out of that. And yeah, so Bhutan, which we opened on the 1st of September of this year is our first wholly owned lodge in Asia. And it’s our first foray into Bhutan. We’ve had a DMC there for a while just to make sure we understand the movement of people.
Jason Elkins (54:06.825)
Okay.
Ryan Powell (54:33.35)
and where people go. We want to make sure that when we open a property, we have the ability to fill it.
Jason Elkins (54:39.478)
Ryan, I think a lot of our listeners and I actually just tend to ask questions that I think are interesting for me. I’m curious about Bhutan. So what do you think I should know about Bhutan?
Ryan Powell (54:52.354)
What should you know about Bhutan? I say you should go. It is a country that actually started me on my mindfulness journey when I went. It is a people who value happiness over gross domestic product. And actually measure gross national happiness as a metric. And that’s a…
Jason Elkins (55:05.234)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (55:17.038)
I had heard that, yeah. That’s cool.
Ryan Powell (55:18.862)
Yeah, and it’s a kingdom. It’s a kingdom that’s sort of like wedged between China and India. And the people there follow the Buddhist faith. And it is just the most amazing place, not just because of the faith of the people, but it is the fact that tourism…
they are, what has a country is looking to follow the same sort of hallmark as the likes of Botswana and Rwanda. So high quality, low volume tourism. And people there really appreciate you coming to visit their country. It’s only about 900,000 people in the country. And so we were sitting and having a coffee in Paro and we had someone walk up to us randomly and say, thank you so much for coming to visit my country.
Jason Elkins (56:13.346)
Not cool, yeah.
Ryan Powell (56:16.214)
And that kind of mindset is everywhere you go. Friendliest people with such a wicked sense of humor. And they just are prepared to share. We got to spend some time with a senior monk. And he’d come out of his.
out of these three years. They do three years, three months and three days as their meditations as they go in their cycles of meditation. And they are wise andBeyond their years, you know, for whether it’s business, you know, to be able to apply thinking and learnings to business or just to yourself to improve yourself. I loved it and I really loved the people. I’m taking my family back there next year so they can experience it themselves firsthand.
Jason Elkins (57:05.63)
I can see, I’m sure the listeners hear it in your voice and I see it on your face. I’m fortunate enough to see that. So you don’t need to say anything else. I’m going. It’s like, yeah, you had me at, I think you had me at the people are just happy to have you there and they’re just friendly and happiness. Cause I’ve experienced that a few places in the world and it always just makes me feel it. I’m in Colombia now. I actually get a similar thing in Colombia. And
Ryan Powell (57:14.987)
Yeah, it is.
Jason Elkins (57:33.314)
just the people just seems so gracious and happy and they like to see me and I feel at home I feel welcomed and I value that so thank you.
Ryan Powell (57:41.094)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I think the reason for that is if you look at the damage that tourism has done, like the downside of tourism, mass tourism and the impact that it’s had in Amsterdam or Venice or Paris, the change that’s taken place is in small cities with the likes of Airbnb’s coming in or mass tourism coming in and driving up prices and…
You know, there’s been quite a kickback from people living in countries as to whether they want tourism, their cruise ships. You know, I think a standard correction was in Amsterdam, who banned ships coming in for some of their ports. You go to places, whether it be in South America or Asia, and install large swathes of Africa. Tourism is a major driver of revenues. It’s a major driver of employment. It is…
It is the dream for many people. You know, it’s like if I do this right, if I do this and I do it right, and I look after these guests who come and visit with us, I’m going to be able to send my kids to school and I’m going to be able to put 10 roof on a home. And travel companies who really look after those communities and make sure that the profits stay in those communities rather than exporting them. Like those are the guys who really make a difference and those are the people
that your listeners should be traveling with.
Jason Elkins (59:13.006)
Yeah, well, thank you. And those are definitely the people that I’m attempting to create conversations with, like yourself. I mean, it’s no accident that Anne Beyond is being represented here on the show. And I’ve made a real effort to find people that work that way, from small bicycle tour operators in Romania to some of the mountain climbing guides. I mean, this is not… I don’t…
think you’re going to see any of the big hotel chains or cruise ships represented here. And if that offends anybody, I’m sorry. I don’t really care. I’m this is not the place.
Ryan Powell (59:47.509)
Yeah.
Well, no, yeah, I think the important part of the situation is that they all have every single part of the value chain and the organization. They have a place and they have a role to play. You know, it’s about what drives you as a person. If it’s the cheapest possible price, then that’s okay, right? Because a lot of the organizations, whether it be the TUIs of the world or the, you know,
Jason Elkins (01:00:01.922)
Hmm?
Ryan Powell (01:00:16.89)
They have made strong commitments around sustainability, which are really admirable.
Jason Elkins (01:00:22.779)
And I think it’s great if people are traveling, so don’t misunderstand. You know, I think it’s I’m particularly interested in this in this conversation, but I actually think it’s good if somebody does go to Cancun for vacation, not necessarily where I’m excited to go. Hopefully they’re doing it with somebody, you know, but get it, you know, get out of the resorts, get out of the hotels and go do something, meet some people, make some, you know, do something.
Ryan Powell (01:00:26.518)
Yeah, no, no. I said like…
Ryan Powell (01:00:40.345)
Yeah.
Ryan Powell (01:00:48.546)
Travel in the shoulder seasons. I think, again, depending on the demographic, but if you have the ability to not travel in peak season, travel outside of those peak seasons, nearly without exception, especially in the places that we sell, the shoulder season periods, and even the low season periods, have some of the most wonderful experience to offer for people.
And that helps just to balance the load a little bit and that into destinations. It’s a difference between having a contracted role versus having a permanent role. It’s the difference between pricing the hull or something in peak season because you know you have to do, you don’t have any business for six to eight months of the year. And so if you have the ability to influence that or choose another time to travel, then do that. Don’t just make it a weather-based decision.
your destinations have something very different to offer, regardless of the time of the year.
Jason Elkins (01:01:44.302)
Great.
Jason Elkins (01:01:48.654)
Great point. Ryan, we’ve covered so much and I think we’ve discussed much longer than I had planned to and I’d love to have you get back to your family and do what you’re doing. And is there anything I should have asked, forgot to ask or anything else that you want to make sure our listeners hear about before we wrap?
Ryan Powell (01:02:08.355)
Um, I think we, the only thing we didn’t say is where we operate from an ambiant perspective, which is in four countries in South America, four in Asia and about 14 across Africa. Um, but that for me is a, is a secondary piece. Um, I was actually, I was reading, I was reading, I’m currently reading Matthew McConnie’s book, Green Lights. I don’t know whether you’ve, uh, you’ve, you’ve read it at all.
Jason Elkins (01:02:31.822)
I have not started that yet. I’m familiar, but I haven’t started it.
Ryan Powell (01:02:36.314)
He’s a smart guy. But I think whoever you choose to travel with, no, I suppose it’s like any big decision in your life, there’s always gonna be a consequence for doing that. And I’d like to finish off with something I picked up in the book that was, as I was preparing for this and I read last night, which was we must learn the consequences of negligence. It’s not just what we do, it’s what we don’t do. That’s important as well.
We are guilty by omission. And I think if we plan our lives, particularly choose what you wanna do when you travel, I think you’ll do well.
Jason Elkins (01:03:17.526)
Very cool. That’s a great way to wrap it up. Thank you, Ryan. That’s very cool. Yeah, let’s do this again. I look forward to finding opportunities to collaborate and work together in the future. And just really appreciate you taking the time to come on and share your insights and your story. Thank you, Ryan. Appreciate you.
Ryan Powell (01:03:22.19)
Thank you so much for the time, Jason. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
Ryan Powell (01:03:35.898)
Great pleasure. All the best.
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