Guest Bio
Scott Davis is the co-CEO and owner of Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris, a wildlife-focused expedition company known for immersive nature and photography tours across the globe. With a background in marine biology and wildlife research, Scott has built a life around exploration, photography, and conservation. His work has taken him to all seven continents, where he has led international expeditions and contributed to major documentary and editorial projects.
Scott is also a National Geographic Society Explorer and grant recipient, and has co-authored scientific publications on animal behavior. He has contributed photography and expertise to organizations like National Geographic, BBC, and Animal Planet, and has covered breaking wildlife stories for Reuters in Africa. His commercial photography has appeared in campaigns for Fortune 500 brands and respected image libraries. Based in Monterey, California, Scott spends most of his year in the field, guiding guests through some of the planet’s most remote ecosystems.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Scott about his inspiring path from wildlife biologist to full-time expedition leader and professional photographer. Sparked by a childhood love of National Geographic, Scott shares how personal loss pushed him to pursue his passion without delay, ultimately guiding him to the helm of Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris.
The conversation explores how Scott’s scientific training informs his guiding, how meaningful guest relationships elevate the travel experience, and what it’s like to spend over 280 days a year in the field. With stories from across the globe and insights into the spirit of adventure, Scott offers listeners a powerful reminder to chase their dreams and immerse themselves in the natural world.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Scott is the co-CEO of Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris, specializing in wildlife and photo expeditions.
- ✓ His career was inspired by a childhood passion for National Geographic and exploration.
- ✓ A personal loss prompted him to reevaluate his path and commit to his dreams.
- ✓ He transitioned from scientific fieldwork to leading global expeditions.
- ✓ Scott spends roughly 280 days a year guiding guests in remote environments.
- ✓ Guest relationships are at the heart of creating unforgettable safari experiences.
- ✓ He has collaborated with National Geographic, BBC, and Animal Planet.
- ✓ His photography has been featured by global media outlets and major brands.
- ✓ Scott believes storytelling and shared experiences are essential to adventure travel.
- ✓ He encourages others to reject complacency and pursue meaningful, bold lives.
What You’ll Find on Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris
- ✓ Immersive wildlife safaris led by expert naturalists and photographers
- ✓ Small-group expeditions to Antarctica, Africa, the Arctic, and beyond
- ✓ A strong focus on conservation, education, and ethical travel
- ✓ Deep connections with wildlife through extended field time
- ✓ Photo workshops and hands-on guidance for all skill levels
- ✓ Personalized guest experiences that emphasize learning and connection
Learn more about Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris and connect with Scott at:
https://www.cheesemans.com
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.102)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today and super excited to have my guest today. We’ve got Scott Davis. Scott is the CEO and co-owner and expedition leader and guide. So a man of many hats with Cheeseman’s Ecology Safaris. Scott, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.
Scott Davis (00:24.277)
Thank you, Jason. Happy to be here.
Jason Elkins (00:26.586)
Scott, guess the first thing I want to ask you is where are you physically located? Where do you live?
Scott Davis (00:31.246)
I live just north of Monterey, California, a little fishing town called Moss Landing. It’s about 10-15 minutes north.
Jason Elkins (00:38.01)
very, very cool. We’re gonna get into your background. I’m not gonna ask you now if you’re from there originally, we’re gonna get into the background. We’re gonna figure that out during the course of the conversation. And I will share with anybody that’s listening to this and isn’t able to see Scott, he’s got a amazing photography on the wall behind him. So I know that that’s gonna be part of the conversation as well. So, all right, Scott, before we go back in time to figure out how you got from where you were to where you are now.
Let’s give our listeners just kind of the elevator pitch, guess, for Cheesemans, Ecology, Safaris. What is it you guys do?
Scott Davis (01:14.646)
Well, we, I mean, we do many things, but we’re mostly known for being a small scale boutique safari expedition team that takes people out to these beautiful places on all seven continents to experience wildlife, nature, deep immersion into these locations that we go. So it’s these small group scenarios that we most specialize in.
Jason Elkins (01:43.162)
Yeah, I noticed that in our previous conversation and then spending some time on your website as well. It’s definitely seems to be about the group trips. Is that 100 % of what you do is group trips or if somebody maybe that’s traveled with you in the past ask you to set up a custom trip just for them and their family. Do you do that as well?
Scott Davis (02:01.314)
We definitely do that too, because often we have these people that want, had such a great time on our initial expeditions and trips and safaris that we do, that they have family members and they’re like, can you do something for the five of us? And we’re happy to set those up too. We’ve been doing these safaris and expeditions for upwards of 40 years, obviously.
I wasn’t there at the very beginning, but I’ve been working with them for about 18 years now. And it’s certainly something that we love to do and love to set up because that way we can kind of tailor fit it to each individual, especially if they come in as a private group and maybe they wanted one more day here or one more day there. And that’s where these little private Safari designs come up.
Jason Elkins (02:52.922)
Very cool. Do you get some clients that start out with the private? Cause I understand that the course of, they’ve been on trips with you before they had a great time, but maybe they want to go somewhere that you don’t have something set up or maybe the don’t dates don’t align or something like that. But do you get some folks also that start out as maybe that what we call the FIT or whatever you want to call it, the private departure and then potentially probably end up going on group trips with you later, I guess.
Scott Davis (03:13.506)
Hmm?
Scott Davis (03:19.21)
certainly. We go in either direction. If you start out with one of our small group trips and see something that you want to do. by all means, if you have an idea and we work in those locations, which it’s pretty good chance that we do since we do operate almost everywhere. We’re happy to set up something initially as well.
Jason Elkins (03:37.082)
you
Jason Elkins (03:44.836)
Well, I’m happy you mentioned that because that was actually the next question I was going to ask you. Not so much where do you go because I know that would be a long list, but are there any place, I mean, maybe the easier question is, is there any place, I mean, any larger place? I’m not talking about a particular village somewhere, but I mean, are there places that you generally don’t go or don’t offer?
Scott Davis (04:07.916)
Well, of course, safety is a concern for our guests and our clients. So for obvious reasons, we’re not going to go into areas that have maybe a little upheaval going on, certainly war zones, places that would kind of make for a little bit too much risk. We do like to take good care of our people and we want to them back to their families and certainly want to make sure that that happens every single time. So, yeah.
Jason Elkins (04:20.634)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (04:30.906)
You
Scott Davis (04:37.496)
those kind of places.
Jason Elkins (04:37.658)
I’m sure our listeners appreciate that. Appreciate that completely. Are you currently doing something on all seven continents?
Scott Davis (04:41.101)
Yes.
Scott Davis (04:46.134)
Yes, in fact, just a week ago got back from Antarctica and now I’m adjusting to my temperate zone here in Monterey Bay, which is gorgeous at the moment. yeah, last week I was in Antarctica in South Georgia Island. Amazing expedition, super happy people and can’t wait to make that happen again.
Jason Elkins (05:11.322)
Very, very cool. Have, okay, it’s time. I wanted to start asking you some questions that are going to be tied into your past and kind of, again, how you got from where you were to where you are now. So let’s just, let’s just jump into that. Sometimes I ask people, you know, where did this all start? And some people say, well, I was born on such and such a day and such and such a town. And other people, other people only go back five years or so. And then I usually try and encourage them to go back a little further because I suspect it didn’t, you know, obviously you mentioned you’ve been there a while. So.
Scott Davis (05:29.646)
Right.
Jason Elkins (05:40.772)
How far back do we need to go to kind of get an understanding for how you ended up doing this kind of work?
Scott Davis (05:46.096)
boy, I would start pretty early on. As a kid, I was just kind of starstruck with these articles that I was paging through National Geographic magazines. I have no doubt. mean, it’s an amazing organization and I’m sure they were the inception point or conception point for many of us that have.
Jason Elkins (06:00.172)
yep, yep. That comes up a lot in these conversations. You’re not alone.
Scott Davis (06:15.576)
this sense of wanderlust. Thankfully my parents had subscription and I would just get lost in those pages and say those are those are places I want to go and so yeah probably starting at age six seven years old I started dreaming of these these faraway lands these exotic destinations and pretty much I was lucky enough to have a career path that allowed me to to explore these these places.
Jason Elkins (06:41.434)
to achieve it, So I’m imagining you, also myself and some other folks we kind of know collectively here in this community at one point had that vision of I want to be a National Geographic photographer. You’re a photographer, that’s a big part of what you do. So do you remember the earliest age that that thought crossed into your mind? Do you remember that moment?
Scott Davis (06:58.53)
Yes.
Scott Davis (07:04.174)
Again, know, those pictures, those photographs, those articles in the magazines, specifically, know, Nat Geo and Life Magazine and those others, I started picking up a camera at a very young age, I think eight years old. I found a camera, one of those really cheap little SLRs that was in my parents’ cabinet. you know, obviously this was back in the film days. And so,
Jason Elkins (07:26.735)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (07:32.238)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (07:33.934)
I started photographing about eight years old, went to a summer camp where they had photography as one of the activities that you could do. And so I started dabbling in the dark room right around that time. And it’s kind of been a lifelong obsession ever since.
Jason Elkins (07:51.958)
Wow. Did you do you remember where your parents it sounds like they were supportive of that if they sent you off to camp or you could do it and sounds like they were supportive. I personally remember my father because it was back in the film days.
and I would take pictures of everything. Every time I got ahold of his camera, I would take pictures of everything. And then he would give me so much grief when he’d go to get it developed. He’d say, I’m spending all this money. You took 14 pictures of that cow. You know, you got to be more selective if you’re going to do this or you’re going to have to start paying for the film and the developing. I’m just wondering if that conversation ever came up with you in your family.
Scott Davis (08:28.558)
Not so restrictive. think that’s why they were probably pretty happy when I built my own dark room down in the basement of our house. They were like, okay, at least he’s taking responsibility for as many photos as he wants to take, but he’s going to be the one buying the chemicals and the paper. Back in those days, at least with my parents, you had chores to do. They give you an allowance. And so a lot of my allowance money went
Jason Elkins (08:55.897)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (08:58.062)
toward the materials needed for the dark group. So they were encouraging for sure.
Jason Elkins (09:03.928)
Sounds like it. How old were you when you started the darkroom?
Scott Davis (09:08.246)
that probably went about age 13, 14. yeah. Yeah. But there was something magical about going into this dark room and you didn’t know what was on your film. had an idea of what you shot and then the magic was it kind of appeared in the chemical trays and, you, you had this tangible object of, of moments or
Jason Elkins (09:13.836)
my goodness. So cool.
Scott Davis (09:37.41)
days before that you had shot something. So there was a little bit of anticipation to see what would come out, what would reveal itself in the dark room.
Jason Elkins (09:43.162)
That is so cool. I’ve got so many questions rolling around in my head. Let’s start with, again, your parents, what were they into? Were they into photography at all? You mentioned they were supportive, but what were your parents into when you were young that maybe helped to influence? Well, they obviously had the subscription to National Geographic, so I’m guessing they were kind of open to the world, but tell us a little bit more about that.
Scott Davis (10:02.254)
you
Scott Davis (10:07.563)
Right.
Scott Davis (10:11.234)
They were open to the world, I have to be honest, they were a little perplexed because I was very much opposite of what my parents were. My parents kind of came from a business background. They did not camp. They did not go out in the woods. They did not do any of that. My heroes were Jane Goodall and Tarzan. And was my great thrill to go out and like…
camp for a night or two by myself. We lived out in the woods and so I was able to do that. So more than once they kind of kidded to me that maybe they brought the wrong child back from the hospital because initially very little in common. And maybe that was the impetus because they had their world and I’ve always been an independent sort from the get-go that I would go off in a completely different direction. Totally alien to them.
Jason Elkins (10:52.291)
Hahaha!
Jason Elkins (11:07.448)
Wow. Do you, I don’t know. I’m not sure if you ever had the conversation with them or figured out, I mean, based on what you just said, was it just a coincidence that they had national geographic? Was there somebody else in your family that set that up? you know, maybe grandparents or what do think you were getting those magazines?
Scott Davis (11:26.595)
What?
I’m not sure the exact reason, but they did like to travel. They were curious about the world. Like many people, maybe they were a bit more armchair observers in some of those respects. So they were into keeping up with current events. They certainly had newspaper subscriptions, like I mentioned, Life Magazine, Time Magazine. And so when these Nat Geo’s kind of came out,
Jason Elkins (11:43.247)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (11:58.958)
they would certainly enjoy reading the articles. They’d like to keep themselves informed. And unfortunately for them, that kind of rubbed off in a different direction. Not only do I want to read about these places, but I want to go to these places and, you know.
Jason Elkins (12:14.062)
Yeah, yeah. What about the maps? I was really into the maps. I remember at one point I had maps of all these places all over the walls of my room. The photos were important, but for some reason it was the maps that I wanted to put on the wall. you know, did you? Do you remember anything about the maps? Yeah, OK.
Scott Davis (12:20.334)
You
Scott Davis (12:24.525)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (12:30.766)
Oh, Yes, definitely. you, you, you, well, you’re looking through this magazine and it’s talking about, you know, the Congo and it’s like, where’s the Congo? And then you go off to your map and try to find these places. And again, my parents had a big Atlas in the house and I would kind of page through that and be reading about, you know, the chimpanzees of some, some region. then.
Jason Elkins (12:57.486)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (12:58.776)
Okay, where’s Uganda? I don’t know, I’m eight years old. My experience with Uganda wasn’t that in depth yet. So, the maps go hand in hand with all of that. To this day, I’m still a fan of maps and will happily sit down and chart out places that I want to go and explore.
Jason Elkins (13:02.393)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (13:06.06)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (13:18.34)
Do you, well, first of all, so remember like they were, they had the maps also, you had an Atlas, which is great, but they also had like the maps would be inserted into the magazine. And I always think whoever like, whoever came up with that idea, cause it might not be intuitive, we’re going to do national geographic. I guess it makes sense. would put maps in there, but there’s the pictures and the stories. And then that map it’s like whenever, whoever decided to put it actually fold out map in there.
Scott Davis (13:37.991)
yeah.
Jason Elkins (13:44.494)
I don’t know if adults responded to it the same way, but I was so excited to get the maps and pull them out.
Scott Davis (13:44.79)
Yeah.
Yes. yeah, it’s kind of like that little secret toy surprise in the bottom of your cereal box. You couldn’t wait to get that new app and for a time in my college dorm room, I would have maps up on the wall that came from the magazines and be like, all right, this is a cool map and you know, little pin pins set up the places that wanted to go and you know, kind of set those goals early on.
Jason Elkins (14:05.157)
Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (14:14.394)
That is so cool. I’m wondering, well, did you have siblings?
Scott Davis (14:21.58)
I did have a sibling. passed away at a young age while I was my first year in college and he was in high school and he passed away. was one of those kind of freak things where his heart stopped and it wasn’t while he was playing basketball at school. And in some ways that probably really motivated me not to waste time because I
Jason Elkins (14:25.454)
Okay.
Jason Elkins (14:30.505)
my goodness.
Jason Elkins (14:40.889)
Wow.
Jason Elkins (14:49.529)
Mmm.
Scott Davis (14:50.732)
early on that things can be taken away so fast. And I was 18 at the time. And right then and there, it’s like, OK, you can’t waste time. Tomorrow, it’s good all in. So if there was a little silver lining in all of that, which was definitely hard at the time, that was probably one of the main lessons learned from an experience like that.
Jason Elkins (15:16.954)
Wow. I can’t even really imagine. I did not have that experience. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Do you remember, it just a little bit of a, I shouldn’t say a little bit, was it more of a mind shift or was there something specific that you did right around that time? you, like, you probably know, but I’m thinking like an example, like, oh my gosh, I went to school for accounting and then
Scott Davis (15:22.798)
I’m glad. No one should have that experience.
Jason Elkins (15:46.04)
My brother passed and I dropped out of school and went to be a ski bum in Montana. mean, any, any, any major changes like that? Or was it just a kind of an overall mindset shift?
Scott Davis (15:58.222)
A little bit of both. There were a few factors certainly in university that put me on the course that I am today. Like many people, it sounds like including yourself, when you first get to college, you’re young, you don’t know what you exactly want to go into or focus in. I certainly had these loves and desires of seeing the world, but
18 you’re not really sure how to go about doing that so you you kind of listen to the advice of your parents and my parents were like well business degree that’s a nice solid degree go in that direction and It was pretty early into my college experience that I realized Accounting was not my forte
Jason Elkins (16:49.69)
You
Scott Davis (16:52.718)
political science, all the things that go along with that degree. We’re like, no, no, this is not a good fit at all. Not a good fit at all. And so I kind of about halfway into university, sophomore year, just realized, okay, we’ve got to figure something out. And I started taking some biology classes and ecology classes.
Jason Elkins (16:58.458)
It’s not me.
Scott Davis (17:19.2)
And I have to say that it was one professor there in particular that just opened up this whole new world that, no, there are opportunities to spend your time in the field watching animals, studying animals and wildlife. And that just major shift as far as where my life would ultimately lead up.
Jason Elkins (17:42.65)
Do you remember when your parents?
Scott Davis (17:44.696)
So a quick shout out to Dr. Donald Schor. If he’s out there listening, definitely kind of. yeah.
Jason Elkins (17:53.38)
Clearly, can see it in your face. For anybody that doesn’t have the pleasure of seeing that, I can see the respect and appreciation that you have for him. yeah, that’s pretty special when we run across somebody like that, that kind of the light bulb goes on and like, wow, this is. And especially, I mean, our parents are great and parents tend to, not all parents are great. I shouldn’t say all parents are great, but I’m sure your parents were great. I’m sure, my parents were great.
Scott Davis (18:09.826)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (18:21.368)
But sometimes after 18 years of kind of following what their thought process are and their priorities, and maybe you’re thinking, I think I’m curious about something else that maybe doesn’t fit into their paradigm. And then you run across somebody else that’s like, he gets me. Or I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but it’s like, or I can relate to what he’s talking about. that’s pretty special. Because sometimes that doesn’t happen until we’re much.
Scott Davis (18:28.461)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (18:34.423)
Right.
Scott Davis (18:38.615)
Right.
Scott Davis (18:45.196)
Right.
Jason Elkins (18:48.6)
much further along in life. And sometimes it’s like, wow, look at what that guy did with his life and I missed out on it. So it’s good when we meet him early. Yeah.
Scott Davis (18:54.74)
Right. Definitely shows you how important these instructors and these teachers and professors are in our lives. So more more kudos to the people that choose that as profession and then inspire their students in one way in they might not even be aware of.
Jason Elkins (18:58.234)
Do you?
Jason Elkins (19:03.652)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (19:12.644)
Yeah. And it tends to go around. mean, I suspect you’ve inspired a lot of people as well. As a result of that people, maybe, maybe some teenagers that came on a group trip with their parents that showed up at the beginning, like, I don’t want to be here. I’d rather be wherever else. And then at the end of the week, they’re like shifting gears and they’re wanting to, you know, look at school to learn biology or something like that. I suspect that’s happened on a few occasions.
Scott Davis (19:19.424)
Hope.
Scott Davis (19:28.781)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (19:38.734)
It has and it’s always rewarding, especially if you just get a message out of the blue, say 10 years later from somebody, especially a young person and said, you know, this is what I’m doing now. And it was because, you know, you, you let me know that this is a possibility that that’s out there. So yeah, incredibly rewarding when that happens.
Jason Elkins (20:02.266)
That’s very cool. Do you remember, so as your parents were advising you on going to school for business management or a business degree, do you remember thinking you wished that you could do something else or was it one of those situations maybe where I really want to go to school for photography or something, but that was just didn’t feel like an option? Because sometimes we’re dependent on our parents to finance these things too.
Scott Davis (20:22.446)
Mmm.
Scott Davis (20:27.982)
Sure. Well, as I mentioned, I just wasn’t happy with the courses. know, business is a very different business studies is very different from, you know, wildlife and biology, which was certainly where my kind of passions were. So the the. The feeling that I was probably in the wrong course set.
Jason Elkins (20:40.058)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Scott Davis (20:56.526)
pretty probably after the first semester or two. Or getting my way through financial accounting. And to be honest, there was a very dramatic moment. I didn’t go about it half ass as far as quitting. I remember distinctly it was the final exam in my second semester of financial accounting. And I got it and I looked at the test and it was just rose and you know.
Jason Elkins (20:58.714)
But,
Jason Elkins (21:24.536)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (21:25.562)
all the stuff that goes along with the counting. And I said, okay, this is it. I’m committed to not doing this. And I got up within the first minute of the exam and handed it back to the professor and walked out and sure enough, got an F in the class. It’s hard to come back from that, but it also is the only F I ever got, but it was a committed move at that point.
Jason Elkins (21:37.516)
wow.
Jason Elkins (21:42.97)
You
Jason Elkins (21:51.61)
But it’s, it sounds like it. I remember hearing a story, the story, I don’t know if there’s any validity to it or not. And I may have the facts or the names wrong, but I think it was something about Cortez when they landed on one of the islands. We’re going to take the island and he looked at his man and said, okay, burn the boats. You know, there’s, there’s no retreat. Burn the boats, right? And
Scott Davis (22:13.442)
He’s committed. Yes.
Jason Elkins (22:16.952)
then they realized there was no way back and it kind of sounds like you burned the boat.
Scott Davis (22:22.574)
I definitely did and I remember having a little chat with the parents. I didn’t tell them what I had done. I just said, I think I’m going to be changing majors. And they’re like, there was a little hesitation on the line and they’re like, do you know what? And I’m like, not yet, but we’ll figure it out. And yes, there was a little hesitation going on there.
Jason Elkins (22:45.976)
When you say you didn’t tell them what you’d done, I’m just curious, be a little bit more specific. You didn’t tell them that you intentionally failed the test or that you failed it or that you failed the test.
Scott Davis (22:53.486)
Yeah, I did not tell them. Well, they ultimately found out, you know, the grade that was received. But yeah, they did want to see that. And no, I did not tell them the dramatic fashion, which I may come to that conclusion. Yeah, I don’t think they would have been too thrilled with that. And in hindsight, there’s probably better ways to go about it.
Jason Elkins (22:58.67)
Yeah. Grades, you know, that thing. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (23:19.642)
kind of sounds like breaking the dishes. You your parents keep asking you to wash the dishes and if you break a dish every once in a while, hopefully they’ll decide, okay, well maybe washing dishes isn’t for him. So maybe we should encourage him to do something different. That’s a.
Scott Davis (23:25.974)
You
Scott Davis (23:32.586)
Yeah. Again, when you’re paying for a class though, there’s like, well, you could just said no.
Jason Elkins (23:38.938)
Well, could you? Could you really? That’s the question. But I’m curious, like in high school, like when your parents like you should go to business school in high school before you started, was there a moment of I don’t think so. And like maybe when you got into business school, like, yeah, that was that I should have insisted on going to school for photography or
Scott Davis (23:49.698)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (24:06.33)
or something or biology or something like that. was just curious if it, or if, or maybe you didn’t even realize until you got to that point in college.
Scott Davis (24:15.822)
Well, in high school, high school is, you know, a time of just trying to figure out a lot of things at that point. So at that point in my life, I didn’t have an idea that once again, you could make a living going out into the woods and being like Jane Goodall. These were just mythical creatures out there that somehow, you know, right time at the right place.
Jason Elkins (24:34.926)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (24:44.052)
explorers and scientists or they who knows they came from money or royalty and they could go off and do this stuff but for the rest of us civilians that’s that’s really not an option. We didn’t have the internet at the time. Yeah I’m old. So you couldn’t yeah we couldn’t do these searches and find out wow there’s a lot of opportunities out there or
Jason Elkins (24:49.228)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (25:01.146)
You and I both.
Scott Davis (25:11.384)
here’s how you go about doing it. You can just search out how to become a wildlife photographer, how to be a wildlife biologist. You kind of had to figure that out on your own, which made for a few course corrections early on.
Jason Elkins (25:26.234)
you
And, that really emphasizes the value of your professor that you had that helped to help you see this because he had seen the other side. He knew it was, you and it’s great. And with the modern technology, there’s some challenges as well, but with modern technology, even I think of just this podcast, you know, we have conversations with people that have done things like what you’re doing.
Scott Davis (25:34.306)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Scott Davis (25:38.349)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (25:55.402)
And I love the idea that people can, if they’re remotely interested in adventure travel, how would I, how did these people do it? There’s, there are resources out there, like, like this podcast to listen to say, wow. He did it. His parents encouraged him to go to school for business management and, and maybe.
Scott Davis (26:08.3)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (26:16.813)
We’re coming up on the end of the semester now. Maybe someone’s going to be listening to this and go in and bomb their test on purpose and think, wow, Scott told me to do it.
Scott Davis (26:22.286)
I know. I hope I don’t get some angry parents calling me up that said their son or daughter decided to go in this direction because of this podcast. I’ll be in trouble. will you.
Jason Elkins (26:33.722)
Well, yes, exactly. I have to ask this because if I don’t ask this, I’m going to wonder about it. And I don’t want to wait until we stop the recording desk. 13, you’ve got a dark room in your basement. You and I are about the same age. I don’t you might be a little younger, but I don’t remember any of my friends.
Scott Davis (26:53.218)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (27:04.014)
The word that comes to mind is, I don’t know why, but it’s eccentric and I’m not trying to label anything. But did your friends know that you were that into photography or was that something you kind of kept to yourself?
Scott Davis (27:08.238)
Mm.
Scott Davis (27:17.294)
Yeah, I certainly didn’t talk about it a lot. I wouldn’t say I was obsessive, where I did have a social life and I would hang out with friends and I played sports, but there was something almost meditational about it. Again, you’d go in there and you’d put some music on and you’d have these few hours of just quiet, quiet focus. No.
Jason Elkins (27:33.817)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (27:45.634)
I wouldn’t say they really knew, but in high school there was a photo club. We had a darkroom at high school too, so I didn’t have to pay for the chemicals there, so I would often, and more than once I would use my friends as photo subjects and photograph them. So they were aware of it, probably.
Jason Elkins (27:55.318)
Okay, that’s cool.
Uh-huh.
Scott Davis (28:13.568)
I probably wasn’t aware that this was going to be a serious pursuit either because again, as a teenager, you don’t think, especially in those times, that this could lead to a profession, especially the kind of photography that I was most interested in, is photojournalism and documentary, but not to the point where I wanted to go down to the local newspaper and take photos of football games. That’s not kind of the stuff I wanted.
Jason Elkins (28:17.615)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (28:40.57)
you
Scott Davis (28:42.51)
I’ll be out in the jungles of Borneo somewhere.
Jason Elkins (28:47.3)
Did I don’t know why this is coming to mind, but I also really enjoy capturing moments. I love an, I love the animal side of it, but I really, as I’ve, I’ve been traveling full time for four years now and I run into so many interesting characters, just on the streets or in rest or just wherever I just run into these very interesting people. And I’ve got this fantasy of being able to just photograph people.
Scott Davis (28:59.886)
Nice.
Scott Davis (29:04.206)
Absolutely.
Scott Davis (29:16.59)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (29:16.654)
But I’ve got this story in my head that, no, that’s creepy if I just stop people on the street and say, hey, can I please take your picture? So there’s so many things that I would have loved to have captured, but I’m afraid to be that weird American guy that’s trying to, you know.
Scott Davis (29:23.284)
Mmm. Mmm.
Scott Davis (29:30.156)
Right, right.
Jason Elkins (29:37.742)
take advantage of whatever situation, I don’t know. So I would love to hear your thoughts on that because I can see on the wall, I can see pictures on the wall behind you of people that are really, really cool photographs. And so what are your thoughts on just walking up to strangers and asking them to take their picture?
Scott Davis (29:43.16)
Sure.
Hmm
Right.
Scott Davis (29:54.446)
It’s interesting because that’s probably one of the most common things I hear from my guests that come on, because I also lead these photo workshops and they might be cultural ones where we do go to another country and it’s not simply wildlife that we focus on, but actually the cultures and the peoples. And I would say the number one thing that the people always say is like, I just feel odd about
Jason Elkins (30:22.329)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (30:22.648)
photographing somebody and it is not the easiest thing to do but I think you kind of have to put yourself in this kind of almost like think of yourself as a photojournalist and you got to focus on okay let’s just pretend this is your job and you have to go out your editor is saying you need these images and get past that little barrier and you’re going to find out more times than not
Jason Elkins (30:44.41)
Hmm.
Scott Davis (30:51.948)
your subject is going to be receptive. And especially if you’re in another country and they might be just as curious about you as you are about them. And so now you are doing this action that is forging a connection between the both of you. And some of those moments have led to incredible interactions where even though the language barrier might be there, but maybe through an interpreter or just
you know, kind of feeling your way through, they invite you into their world. I mean, a smile will go a hundred miles in a positive direction too. And once they see that you’re not like this kind of threatening creature with a camera, but more this person that’s looking for a connection, many people, at least in my experience, will bring you into their world. And that’s where some truly amazing images.
Jason Elkins (31:22.488)
you
Scott Davis (31:49.932)
happened. mean I’ve had so many times where that’s happened being in a tribal community and before you know it you know you’re being welcomed into this family in that family and they want to bring you into this person’s hut or shelter or home and they want to share food with you and know sky’s the limit at that point once you’ve broken down that that initial shyness factor so I say go for it don’t the
Jason Elkins (32:14.286)
Wow. I am so happy. asked that question.
Scott Davis (32:17.694)
The worst that they can do is say no or say no no and then you respect that. And I’ve had so many of my guests, especially when we go to these places and they get past that and they kind of follow some of the suggestions that I make and they’re like, that was amazing. That was truly amazing, Scott. So yeah, it’s a cool thing.
Jason Elkins (32:37.282)
I can, I can see the part of creating the connection. Once you’ve gotten past that initial moment, whatever that looks like to have that connection, because I’ve had similar connections. mean, really the, the way to make, create a connection is to create some sort of connection. So whether it’s the photography or food for me, I’ve had the best experiences connecting with people over food.
Scott Davis (32:44.6)
Hmm.
Scott Davis (32:48.814)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (32:57.582)
Cheers.
Jason Elkins (33:05.356)
So I might be in a cafe or even eating street food somewhere. And I’ll just ask people next to me, you know, what are you eating? Just something as simple as what are you eating? Or, Hey, or help me, help me figure out what to order. That’s the, that is probably the number one thing for me that I’ve created a connection with is, Hey, what do you think I should eat? What do you guys like?
Scott Davis (33:14.21)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Break that wall.
Right.
Scott Davis (33:27.672)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (33:31.416)
whether it’s the server, the person working there, or just somebody sitting at a table next to me, I’m like, what do you like? And then they start asking, well, do you like spicy? Oftentimes there’s a language barrier, but the conversation goes something along the lines of, well, what do you like? Well, I don’t know, what do you like? And I’ll eat anything, so it’s pretty easy.
Scott Davis (33:46.574)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Well, it might be a cliche, but, you know, breaking bread is one of these things that it’s universal among humans. We all eat and we typically share interest in eating. so, yeah, there’s a commonality among that no matter where you are on the planet. So I think that’s a great technique to break into that little barrier, that little shyness barrier.
Jason Elkins (33:57.113)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (34:08.761)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:17.305)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (34:22.126)
Who are they? What are they doing? So, keep on you.
Jason Elkins (34:23.3)
Yep. And it’s just so fascinating, the conversations that come out of it. I remember some street food in Bali, in this really small away from the tourist areas in Bali. And these three young ladies were standing in front of this place and I wanted some food and I was asking them, you know, what do you like?
Scott Davis (34:29.592)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (34:36.792)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:45.066)
And then they suggested something and I got something and I shared it with them and then they’re sharing their food with me. And it’s just this moment. I’m not even sure we got to the point of discussing names or anything. It didn’t really matter. It was just a moment and a connection that for me makes traveling fun. Because I travel solo a lot. So if I want to have any engagement with anybody, I got to step outside my comfort zone.
Scott Davis (34:50.008)
Right.
Scott Davis (35:06.028)
Yes.
Scott Davis (35:11.47)
That’s fantastic.
Jason Elkins (35:14.084)
thing. So when you’re with your clients and helping them figure out how to break that barrier and take it to the next level to engage and take photos, is it, and I know this is tough because there’s so many different cultures and everybody’s different, but is it generally, can you break the ice right away with the take your photo part or do you generally encourage them to warm?
Scott Davis (35:26.062)
Mm.
Scott Davis (35:31.383)
Right.
Jason Elkins (35:41.24)
to warm the person up with some other sort of conversation before you jump right into, can I take your picture?
Scott Davis (35:47.616)
Yeah, I think each scenario, each situation is a little different and you, especially as time goes on, you kind of get a sense of which, which strategy might work better. Some of it’s opportune, where you’re seeing something going on that immediately catches your eye. And in those moments, you, as a photographer, I want to capture that, that magic moment before you’ve
broken that barrier because it’s only there for an instant. And the moment you’re like, can I take a picture? And then it’s a, the atonement changes what was happening. And so in those moments, yes, I’ll quickly take a photo, but I might follow it up with a smile and like, thank you, thank you very, very much. That might break it. And then there’s other times where, yes, I’ll keep the camera down. I’ll kind of forge a little.
Jason Elkins (36:17.711)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (36:22.299)
it changes, everything’s changed.
Jason Elkins (36:36.578)
Wow.
Scott Davis (36:45.506)
bit of back and forth in one way or another. And then as they get more more comfortable, then the camera might come up. And that’s where they’re relaxed. And you might get some magic, you know, photo moments from those moments.
Jason Elkins (36:53.188)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (37:02.714)
Do you find a lot of your subjects are actually, I don’t know, I’m not going to use the word subjects. it feels weird for me. So a lot of the people that you meet and you take photos of, do they generally seem to be pretty enthusiastic about seeing their pictures? Like I assume on your camera, you probably have the monitor so you can like, they want to see it, right? Yeah. Okay. And that probably encourages. Yeah.
Scott Davis (37:09.75)
Yeah. Right.
Scott Davis (37:17.101)
Yes.
Scott Davis (37:20.398)
Yeah, definitely digital photography has changed that dynamic between your person that you’re photographing and you can now visually show them that rather than back in the film day you click and cross your fingers that you got it. especially among children, my God, children, before you know it, you got to be a little bit careful because you might have
Jason Elkins (37:41.933)
You
Scott Davis (37:49.646)
50 children at the end of this little session that started with one or two. And at that point, it’s just entertaining. It’s a bit of a circus, but it’s fun.
Jason Elkins (37:51.866)
Yeah.
Cause how do you, how do you say to the other 47? No, no, I just wanted to picture this one. Yeah. But, fortunately it’s digital. So you’re not spending the time and money to develop the paper. So yeah.
Scott Davis (38:04.238)
I just wanted that one. Yeah.
Scott Davis (38:13.152)
Well, plus you’re also getting at that point, you just again, put the camera getting the shot that you want out of the picture. And now you’re concentrating on the moment engaging. So it’s a bad, it’s not a bad second place.
Jason Elkins (38:22.242)
Yeah, yeah. Engaging.
It’s.
Jason Elkins (38:31.856)
no, no, it’s, it’s super. mean, the truth be told, that’s probably why I feel like I would like to capture these pictures is because I actually, it’s not the pictures. I’m not a photographer. I don’t have a photo website. I’ve never sold a photo, but I think it’s about creating a connection of some sort because I see it. And I, if I feel like
Scott Davis (38:41.614)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (38:48.76)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (38:53.358)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (38:56.622)
I just want engage with that person and I don’t know how else I would engage with them. I mean, maybe through food, but yeah, so that’s interesting. I did want to ask you, in my experience of traveling, I’ve had people ask me to take their pictures quite often because I’m in places. And actually one interesting thing that I’ve experienced is quite a few people that I’ve run into.
Scott Davis (38:58.99)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (39:13.784)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (39:20.578)
want a photo with me. And that’s fairly common in Asia, as far as I can tell. There were quite a few times that people would walk up to me and maybe bring their grandparents up and say, Can I take a picture of you with my grandmother? And initially, the first time I was there, thought, they think I must look like somebody famous, because I don’t know who they would think it is, but they’re treating me as though I’m a celebrity and they want to get a selfie with me.
Scott Davis (39:22.643)
yeah. Yes.
Scott Davis (39:34.37)
Yes.
Scott Davis (39:40.599)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (39:45.559)
Right.
Jason Elkins (39:48.114)
And I had to have a conversation with someone there that explained it to me. Well, they don’t see a lot of guys that look like you and it’s kind of cool. They want to share it and all that stuff. And that was pretty cool. Where I was going with this is when I’ve taken photos, typically of younger to middle-aged women.
Scott Davis (39:48.226)
Right.
Scott Davis (39:55.586)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (40:09.25)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (40:09.412)
They like to see the photo and then quite often they’re like, okay, nope, that’s not going to work. Take it again. You, you, you know what I’m talking about. think. So you stand there and take 20 pictures one at a time. Nope, nope, nope. That’s not going to work. Let’s do it again. Let’s do it again. Let’s do it again. have you experienced that as well?
Scott Davis (40:15.504)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (40:22.84)
Great.
Scott Davis (40:26.285)
Right.
yeah. I think we are hitting a universal among especially the countries that you were speaking about. Yeah, I always do because here in the States it pretty much never going to happen. Someone’s going to come up to you and say take a picture with me or it’s usually the opposite. They look at you with a bit of like what are you trying to get from me? But
Jason Elkins (40:33.851)
Hahaha
Jason Elkins (40:47.736)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (40:57.831)
huh.
Scott Davis (40:58.734)
It’s very different. can’t tell you how many times I’ve been, you know, made two new friends all of a sudden when I have photos taken. which is also very endearing, very charming, almost a childlike innocence that, yeah, it’s exciting to be around. But yes, I think also as you were talking about pertaining to the ladies, there’s certainly a mound of
Jason Elkins (41:08.109)
Uh-huh.
Yeah!
Scott Davis (41:28.686)
Vanity that exists throughout the world and it props me up.
Jason Elkins (41:31.482)
Yeah. And I’ve noticed that they’ve got, yeah. And I think at least, yeah. And I think at least 50 % of the population without going any further and just saying 50 % of the population have a good side and a bad side. Nope, hold on. Let me change sides before you take the picture. And that’s cool. I love that. But again, it creates a connection. I’ve, I really…
Scott Davis (41:36.334)
Everyone wants to look good in a photo too, so you don’t want to put your worst side forward.
Scott Davis (41:50.936)
Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (42:01.432)
I love that I’m somewhere in Thailand with my arm around an 80 year old lady that is looking at me smiling like this is the coolest thing that’s ever happened to her. And I know it’s not, but it’s just that you can’t not, well, I cannot not feel a connection when those things are happening and it’s pretty fun. So I think we’re gonna get back probably.
Scott Davis (42:07.852)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (42:13.888)
Yeah. Right.
Jason Elkins (42:27.63)
to some more photography stuff, but I wanna, I do wanna make sure that we kind of get the story from, you switched over to biology. Was it biology? Was that the new major?
Scott Davis (42:34.86)
Yeah, it’s wildlife, wildlife biology and anthropology. You know, again, back to the Nat Geo cultures. So I was trying to mix up both of those worlds, know, anthropology and wildlife biology. So.
Jason Elkins (42:42.621)
huh.
Jason Elkins (42:52.57)
All right. So when you had this professor, you’re going to school for anthropology and biology, wild, bought wild. Yeah. Okay. did you, what were you starting to think as you were getting into that? What was the career path that you envisioned or did you even, were you even that far ahead?
Scott Davis (42:58.797)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (43:12.014)
Yes, once I started focusing on specifically like the wildlife biology and ecology courses, much more so than I didn’t know that there were anthropology jobs out there that still exist other than academia. So the wildlife part
Jason Elkins (43:29.06)
the
Yeah.
Scott Davis (43:35.936)
certainly drew me, I guess, a bit stronger as far as making my way through this world and being able to pay my bills. But I’ll preface it by saying, don’t go into wildlife biology if your job is to get wealthy or anything like that. It’s not. Do it for the love of your subject matter. But certainly as senior year approached in
Jason Elkins (43:51.618)
You
Yeah.
Scott Davis (44:03.054)
know, graduation was soon approaching and you’re like, okay, I am going to have to start paying bills next year. With the help of my professor, he was able to, back in those days again, before the internet was there with all the job offerings, there were newsletters that would go out and with lists of biology positions throughout the US, be it seasonal or, and so.
Jason Elkins (44:07.905)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (44:24.826)
Mmm.
Scott Davis (44:29.792)
I started subscribing to those and realized, okay, there are potentials out there working with agencies, government agencies, private agencies, they needed wildlife biologists in the field. So that’s kind of the direction I started to go at that point.
Jason Elkins (44:44.858)
What did the stereotypical entry level, I guess, coming out of college or university with a degree in wildlife biology, what did the typical job opportunity look like on these lists?
Scott Davis (44:53.718)
Alex.
Scott Davis (45:00.046)
Well for me, I was interested in animals. So there might be, my first position out of university was with Wyoming Game and Fish Department. And they were looking for seasonal jobs or seasonal job applicants for biology studies that were going on. And I was lucky enough to be
put on this team that studied grizzly bears. And so again, right out of college, I was really fortunate enough to have what, in my opinion, was a dream job. I’m like, wait, you’re going aim me to go out and capture grizzly bears and put radio collars and track their movement patterns and being part of a five-man team that did that. And so that job, for me, was like,
Jason Elkins (45:30.524)
cool.
Jason Elkins (45:39.801)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (45:55.82)
This is it. This is it. Now when I think back and I think I was being paid maybe 200 bucks a week. Just enough to pay my bills, but at the time I didn’t care. This was like awesome. I’m riding horses in Wyoming and spending pretty much every day out in the field, up on mountains and forests, tracking big charismatic animals. So yeah, it was great.
Jason Elkins (46:10.17)
Yeah, yeah.
Jason Elkins (46:23.898)
That’s very cool. I actually had a job out of between high school and college working for Wyoming Game and Fish. I was making fences. I was making game fences to keep that they could take to the landowners and put around their haystacks and everything to keep the elk out. It wasn’t quite as much fun as what you did, but I hadn’t earned that yet. You had earned it. So that’s cool. Very, very cool.
Scott Davis (46:33.417)
No way. Really.
Scott Davis (46:37.879)
All right.
Scott Davis (46:41.934)
Sure.
Scott Davis (46:46.51)
All right. right. right. Good for you.
Jason Elkins (46:53.242)
Okay, so that was the first summer job presumably. Did that last into the winter? Probably not. I don’t want to.
Scott Davis (46:56.844)
Right. Yeah. It lasted into the fall. At that point, the bears start going into hibernation mode. Yeah. Once they go into their dens at that point, responsibilities are fairly limited.
Jason Elkins (47:03.908)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:07.898)
They don’t need to hire somebody to track them because they know where they’re at until the spring, right?
you
Scott Davis (47:22.126)
there was just a series of seasonal jobs, especially for someone that was younger and just with your bachelor’s degree. As far as, and I’ll be honest again, I didn’t want to climb the ladder to the point where I’m behind a desk that was analyzing a lot of the stuff that all your field guys were bringing to you.
Jason Elkins (47:39.95)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:47.929)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (47:48.426)
I wanted to be on the field. So there was a series of other openings and once you get your foot in the door that first time, that’s kind of the hardest, I think, those first one or two, but now you’re hitting in this network of field biologists that maybe your manager knows another position that’s opening up or they bring you back the next year or, you know, lots of opportunities to start doing. So if you did it right, you could time it.
Jason Elkins (47:59.93)
All right.
Jason Elkins (48:11.695)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (48:17.654)
And when one study ended, you’d have another one starting up two weeks later. And that’s kind of what led me to working internationally because, you know, I might be working here six months and then a study opens up in Micronesia. And then I go out there or down to South America and they’re out there. You just have to, you know, put some effort in.
Jason Elkins (48:42.682)
During that part of your life, were you exclusively doing wildlife biology jobs or did you end up mixing that in with any sort of tourism or hospi, because sometimes.
based on 150 so conversations with guests on the show. There’ve been a few that maybe did the summer wildlife biology job and then they were a ski instructor and that’s kind of how they got into the hospitality and tourism or they worked in hotels. Did you have any of that stuff mixed in in the beginning or was it literally just back to back wildlife biology jobs?
Scott Davis (49:02.317)
Right.
Scott Davis (49:11.182)
Mm.
Scott Davis (49:18.87)
It was mostly back to back wildlife biology jobs. Yeah, I would work. I mean, some of the studies were long. They might last a year or as long as the funding was there. But some of them, know, six months. And I was I was pretty good at organizing the next one. So it synced up. And as long as I could kind of keep going and the time between the two.
Jason Elkins (49:35.631)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (49:49.102)
But there was definitely a time where I lived out of my, I had an old 1987 Azuzu Trooper and all my world’s belongings were in that trooper. And I would just drive from state to state working on these things. at the end, it all back in and then head back out. So I look around and see all these beautiful vans that, these custom vans that people are living out of right now.
Jason Elkins (50:12.506)
You didn’t have one of those?
Scott Davis (50:17.262)
I had one of those, I probably would have stayed a biologist a little bit longer.
Jason Elkins (50:21.7)
But, but you have to get a YouTube channel to have one of those vans. Not a degree in biology.
Scott Davis (50:25.454)
I think so, yeah. Some of those are the… Yeah, I was about say, I never would have been able to afford one because some of those vans are quarter million dollar vans, I see.
Jason Elkins (50:34.87)
I don’t know how they do it. So I’m curious how you managed to transition that into more of a, let’s be honest, a tourism role because you’re still doing a lot of, obviously the background and the things that you experienced still apply to the work you’re doing now, but how did you transition that? And was it an accident or on purpose?
Scott Davis (50:37.985)
Hahaha
Scott Davis (50:51.907)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (51:02.222)
It wasn’t an accident. It kind of ended up being a bit of an evolution of kind of the direction I was going. You know, again, on all these studies I was working, I was fortunate to work on some pretty cool studies with the charismatic wildlife, know, grizzly bears, sea turtle populations, coral reef ecology, that sort of stuff. But I always had my camera with me.
and I was always photographing and documenting the work. And there were moments where those images were utilized for magazine articles and stuff like that. So a little side income started coming in from the photography angle where magazines would say, hey, we need these images. And certainly the editors, they became familiar with your work.
Jason Elkins (51:30.49)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (51:50.191)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (52:00.418)
and they would say, okay, we know that you have this, do you also have images of these animals? And I’d be like, actually I do. And so bit by bit, now this is over the course of years of doing this, that I thought, well, what would happen if I started to focus a bit more with the photography? And then when that started to happen, I would get.
Jason Elkins (52:12.505)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (52:26.67)
communications at this point email was a thing and I’d get these emails from people like hey I saw you with images of sharks can you take us to this place we want to get those images ourselves so I would end up working with you know film crews or individuals that wanted to go out and photograph some of the subject matter that they had first seen
Jason Elkins (52:30.297)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (52:37.636)
Mm-hmm.
Ooh.
Scott Davis (52:55.48)
for me and that’s where I think the leading trips kind of evolved as well. And then probably, geez, now it’s going on 20 plus years ago, decided to make a full force effort into what would happen if I started running these trips and expeditions to these places. had kind of come to a point in the research world where I’d done a lot of the things I wanted to achieve.
I’ve worked with National Geographic. I am just one of their National Geographic explorers and worked on a number of other species and animals and locations. I’m like, okay, let’s try this direction, see what happens. And it’s been going pretty well ever since. So yeah, it’s working. I’m not complaining.
Jason Elkins (53:42.49)
It’s working. It seems to be working for you. Yeah. I, I love that. Did you, so when you started taking the group trips and leading the trips, did you feel that it was mostly the photography, mostly the fact that you were a naturalist and wildlife biologist? Was there one thing that was, I don’t know, more important, but there was
one thing that helped you more than the other, is it just absolutely a mix of the, of probably two or three different things.
Scott Davis (54:19.104)
I think to succeed really in this business, yes, you certainly have to have a certain skill set to back up these areas that you’re going, but you also have to, I think, be able to establish relationships with your guests that you’re bringing out there and really bond with them in a way.
Jason Elkins (54:40.633)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (54:46.734)
That that they realize that they’re not just a number. They’re not just you know, a dollar sign or anything like that You’re building a friendship. You’re building a relationship and so You get at least what I hear from a lot of my clients that especially the ones that come back time after time We have some clients that come back, you know, ten ten trips twelve trips now No, that’s a that’s a sizeable investment over time, but they they went on
Jason Elkins (54:49.987)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (55:09.508)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (55:13.529)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (55:16.408)
I’m not gonna name any names or anything like that, but they’ve gone on other trips where they just said, we felt like we were nothing more than a vehicle for the trip leader to get his stuff or photograph those stuff. And I’ve heard that so many times and they’re like, it’s pretty obvious that your priority is for us to get our stuff. And you’re there as a facilitator, certainly someone that gives advice and training or teaching.
Jason Elkins (55:27.939)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (55:39.45)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (55:44.665)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (55:46.018)
But I think, and once again, it goes back to my professors in college that were really supportive, where yes, they knew the science, but their job was to relay their knowledge to help you. And that’s kind of the priority that I take when I take my guests out to these places.
Jason Elkins (56:06.914)
What I, what I heard you say, Scott was, or what I formulated in my head based on what I just heard was that it’s maybe a three-legged stool, right? You’ve got maybe the, the, wildlife and the scientific background. but then you’ve got the, the photography and kind of capturing that experience. And then also the ability to lead trips.
Scott Davis (56:19.361)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (56:24.183)
Right.
Jason Elkins (56:33.74)
And that’s a really, really, really big one that most people may not consider. You can, you know, if you’re a, if you’re one of the head photographers for national geographic and they put an ad out that, go with so-and-so to such and such a place. People are going to book it just because, my gosh, this, you know, we, I don’t know the guy, but I’ve seen his work and da da da da, but that doesn’t mean that he’s a good trip leader. It doesn’t mean that he’s.
Scott Davis (56:33.763)
Right.
Scott Davis (56:38.849)
Right.
Scott Davis (56:51.149)
Right.
Scott Davis (57:01.153)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (57:02.794)
And to be honest, maybe some people that grow up in dark rooms, not you, course, clearly, but maybe some people that grow up in dark rooms and become hyper focused on photography, or maybe some of the becomes hyper focused on wildlife biology doesn’t necessarily have the best people skills and the ability to connect with people and, spend time with them in the field is that so it’s kind of all three, right? Yeah.
Scott Davis (57:09.336)
Right.
Scott Davis (57:27.726)
Oh yeah, definitely. mean, I’m sure there’s some Nobel winning scientists out there. They know their subject, bright and left, but they might not be the best at teaching someone else how to do it or establishing relationships with other humans.
Jason Elkins (57:38.522)
you
Jason Elkins (57:45.626)
You know, I can’t, can’t help it to, remember. And the gentleman that I had on the show, he was great and they do paleontology trips. So they’ve got paleontologists that go out and lead these group trips. And one of the questions I had with him, we won’t go into the names of who it was, but one of the questions I had for me and he answered it really well was how do you find a paleontologist that also really has good people skills?
Scott Davis (57:57.356)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sure. Right.
Jason Elkins (58:14.638)
you know, and want and wants to spend, you know, a week to 10 days to two weeks with a group of people. And that’s not a question, I guess, I’m just thinking, you know, sometimes the scientific people are not necessarily, you know, the ones that want to spend a lot of time in labs and stuff like that may not be the ones that want to go spend time with people. What do you what do you think it is about you?
Scott Davis (58:14.892)
Right.
Scott Davis (58:18.496)
Right.
Scott Davis (58:23.51)
Right.
Scott Davis (58:37.998)
All
Jason Elkins (58:41.378)
or your upbringing or is it just purely your personality that makes it work so well for you?
Scott Davis (58:47.086)
I think, well, probably again going back to those Nat Geo paging through the magazine articles, for me, I can say that I’m curious about stories. I’m curious what other people, I rarely like to talk about myself. In fact, I will put it out there on the record. I don’t like to talk about myself. It’s a little uncomfortable spot for me. This is, know.
Jason Elkins (59:12.058)
But you’re doing really good at it. You’re not talking about yourself. You’re just telling your story. It’s not about you, but okay.
Scott Davis (59:16.814)
This is my first. Yeah, this is my first. Yeah, tell me a story. But I am genuinely interested in where people are coming from that tells their story of like how they got to be who they are, why they are, why they’re a certain way. for me, that’s that kind of helps with my just innate sense of curiosity.
of hearing other people’s stories. So when my guests come on these trips, it’s rare for me to, you know, I don’t like being in the spotlight. I want to bring them into the spotlight. I think…
Jason Elkins (59:57.496)
Well, you have to be in order to be a good trip leader. can’t be about you. That’s yeah. Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:00:00.748)
I think they appreciate that. They’re like, okay, he’s interested in what I want to do and it’s not about him. maybe, hopefully that works. They enjoy that.
Jason Elkins (01:00:07.962)
Mm-hmm.
There was.
Yeah, it seems to be the case. I think that’s true. think, you know, anybody that’s been around travel, whether as a traveler or somebody in the industry has run across that, that guide that is all about talking about how great they are and what kind of great, wonderful experiences they have. And they love to just share information in a way of, wow, look at how much I know. But, honestly, I would probably rather go on a group trip with someone that
Scott Davis (01:00:37.901)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:00:43.256)
Their first time being there, they know nothing about what’s going on, but they’re interested in the guests and they can engage in a conversation. It’s just, I personally just think it’s more important. But one of the things, part of why I wanted to ask that question is because you also majored in anthropology, which is an interesting thing because that is people.
Scott Davis (01:00:49.645)
Right.
Scott Davis (01:01:04.014)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:01:08.728)
Right? People’s stories, really, in a sense. I mean, it’s kind of what anthropology is. So it’s not something that just came up later when you thought, I can make money leading group trips. You were already interested in people. So that’s an important distinction.
Scott Davis (01:01:08.758)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
That’s what led me in that direction.
Scott Davis (01:01:23.31)
Yes.
Yeah, all of us have stories. I mean, you can take a profession where, you know, it might be, you know, one of those ones that you go, I am not. Yeah. Like a therapist or whatnot. And I guarantee you I can speak with an accountant and find out something really fascinating about what led them into that life. At least fascinating to me because
Jason Elkins (01:01:39.33)
Accounting?
Jason Elkins (01:01:50.33)
Ow.
Jason Elkins (01:01:54.488)
Yeah, yeah.
Scott Davis (01:01:56.622)
Not all of us grow up thinking, oh, I want to be an accountant or, you know, again, not denigrating any profession out there. But as a child, you don’t think I want to sell insurance. But, you know, I’ve had people that come from those professions on these trips and I found each and every one of them interesting. And their story that led them down their career path, even though they’re like, oh, you don’t want to hear it. It’s boring. It’s like not to me.
Jason Elkins (01:02:03.95)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:16.89)
yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:02:25.402)
I, I get that every time I can’t think it was right before we pushed the record button. mentioned that I’m back visiting family here in Arizona. And every time I come back to Arizona, I, my mom’s not going to drive on the freeway to go to the airport to pick me up. So I’m doing the, I’m doing the $90 Uber from the airport to my mom’s house. And, but what’s great about that is I’ve got 45 minutes or so to an hour with an Uber driver here in Phoenix, Arizona.
Scott Davis (01:02:34.19)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:02:46.496)
out.
Jason Elkins (01:02:55.75)
And almost, there are many, many times I’ve been gone, traveling the world for four or five months and I come home and the most fascinating conversation I have during that timeframe is my ride from the airport with the Uber driver. Cause for some reason here in Phoenix, they’re generally, are people, you know, I remember distinctly a guy that was Kurdish from Northern Iraq who worked with the military during the war.
Scott Davis (01:02:55.96)
Right.
Scott Davis (01:03:11.128)
Yes.
Scott Davis (01:03:19.341)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:03:21.85)
And we had a fascinating conversation about Northern Iraq. And I remember I walked in the door to my mom’s house. I’m like, I’m going to Iraq next. She’s like, what? I said, no, the driver I was just with, we spent an hour talking about his family and his upbringing and his culture and the last trip to come here a few days ago.
Scott Davis (01:03:22.702)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:03:31.662)
Wow.
Scott Davis (01:03:39.352)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:03:43.598)
It was a guy from New York city and I got in the car and immediately I said, you’re from the city, aren’t you? He’s like, you can tell. Is it that bad? No, no, it’s not bad. It’s cool. You know, and we talked about his kids and his time that he spent in Brazil and, girl fights with girlfriends he’d had and you know, this, and this is a big tat. That’s a big tattooed guy from, yeah, from, from, from the Bronx. I was a Bronx, actually a Brooklyn, you know, Brooklyn, New Yorker guy that been in Arizona for six or seven months, driving Uber. That was fascinating conversation.
Scott Davis (01:03:56.035)
Yes.
That’s a great story. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:04:13.058)
I loved it. You know, so it’s, it’s, an important part. And if you, and if you can’t enjoy stuff like that, you should probably not be a trip leader because it’s not going to work.
Scott Davis (01:04:14.54)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:04:22.542)
Yeah, it just seems so unfortunate to go to one of these places and your leader is aloof or off doing their thing and now you’re like, okay, what was the point?
Jason Elkins (01:04:39.8)
Yeah, yeah. I remember. Exactly. I remember I got a job because of that. went and visited a place that I had already kind of decided it would be great to. I managed to place off the coast of Belize for for a while and the first time I went to visit was more of a fam trip because I was going to maybe bring some clients back and I just ended up on this fam trip. And shortly after I got there, I realized that the guy that was running the place at the time, not the owner, just.
Scott Davis (01:04:54.914)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:05:00.768)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:05:08.47)
a person that was working there, no names. he just was super smart guy, knew a lot, but there was just that connection with the guests was just missing. And I realized it. And so the last day I went to the owner, said, Hey, if this guy doesn’t work out knowing he wouldn’t.
Scott Davis (01:05:10.701)
Right.
Scott Davis (01:05:15.064)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:05:27.402)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:05:28.076)
Nobody could listen to this and figure out what I’m talking about. anyway, but it was like, it was pretty clear that that wasn’t going to work out very well. So it’s like, you know, and then I ended up back there three months later, working the place. It’s important. It really is.
Scott Davis (01:05:41.62)
it’s critical important. would say in addition to, you know, solid field skills and leadership skills, your relationship skills are one of the most important things to have out there, at least if you want to be in this business long term.
Jason Elkins (01:05:52.41)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:05:59.48)
Yep, absolutely appreciate that. So help us. So tell us a little bit about just getting started with Cheesemans.
Scott Davis (01:06:08.236)
Well, funny enough, I was working on a photographer assignment. I was working with a company that kind of specialized in high-end Fortune 500 stock images. I was one of their contract photographers. And they asked me, they go, Scott, we want to send you somewhere to acquire some images. Where on this planet would you like to go?
Jason Elkins (01:06:23.258)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:06:35.822)
Pretty much the sky was the limit. I know. was, well, one of the, yeah. And at that point in my life, the only continent I had not been on was Antarctica. And so it had always been a dream of mine to go down there. And I made the pitch why I need to go to Antarctica. And they were a little perplexed because that certainly wasn’t on their radar. I’m like, but you’ll get images that you need.
Jason Elkins (01:06:36.078)
Nice. man, that must have been difficult.
Jason Elkins (01:07:03.198)
Because they’re thinking, they’re thinking we don’t need a bunch of penguin photos.
Scott Davis (01:07:07.214)
Yeah, well, to many people that’s the only thing that exists down there. I’m like, oh no, there’s stories right and left, the people that live down there, the scientists that are down there, the people that work, of course the animals and the scenery and climate change is becoming a thing and you’re gonna want symbolic imagery and stuff. So, they’re like, okay, we’ll send you down there. And so it was my job to find a company that would get me down there.
Jason Elkins (01:07:11.304)
Exactly. That’s what they were thinking. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:07:17.08)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:07:26.958)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:07:35.426)
and I started doing my research and not only get me down there, but you know, in depth. I needed time in the field and I needed maximum time. And so I narrowed it down to two companies and I ended up, Cheeseman’s at that time was based up just north of me near Santa Cruz, California. So I was able to sit down with
Jason Elkins (01:07:41.594)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:08:02.84)
Ted Cheeseman, who was the son of the original owners. And he’s all like, why don’t we meet for lunch and you can tell me what you need about this assignment. And so we met for lunch, told him, goes, yeah, we can do that. And so I went down to Antarctica with Cheeseman’s Ecology Safari. So that was my first experience with them. And that was back in 2007. And went down there, it was a fantastic experience.
Jason Elkins (01:08:14.403)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:08:33.102)
spent a month down there traveling all around. It was ship based, expedition ship based and saw some amazing things, lived up to all the hype that I had like, you know, built up in my mind. So I was super happy. And at the end of the trip, just offhandedly, you know, Ted was there as the expedition leader and I just kind of offhandedly said, hey,
Jason Elkins (01:08:38.201)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:08:45.455)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:08:58.296)
you ever need a guide, extra guide, because we bring our own guides on these trips. You have my number, give me a call. And sure enough, the following year, he called me up and said, Scott, you’re still interested in guiding for me down there, because we got to know each other over that month. And he realized I came from a science background and had both.
Jason Elkins (01:09:04.602)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:09:23.642)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:09:25.89)
boating skills and captain skills. Yeah, personality. Sure enough, that’s where it started. from that point on, I’d been going back every year. And then the time came where I think Ted wanted to pursue other career and life goals. And he contacted me and we got to talking about taking over the business.
Jason Elkins (01:09:27.476)
personality.
Scott Davis (01:09:54.734)
you know, having worked together for, you know, 18 years. You get a sense of the kind of people that, you know, want to keep the baton going.
Jason Elkins (01:09:58.862)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a
Jason Elkins (01:10:06.21)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you so at this point, because you just got back from Antarctica, mentioned that. And I’ve seen the list of trips that you’re leading on your website. It looks like quite a bit. So how many trips, how often are you in the field or what do you want our listeners to know about kind of what your life looks like right now?
Scott Davis (01:10:12.332)
Right.
Scott Davis (01:10:18.446)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:10:23.182)
Well, thankfully I still love being out in the field. A little different than being a field biologist, but to me that’s one of my happy places. Currently I’m usually on the road about 280 days of the year. It’s a lot of time, but you know I’ve always, you know.
Jason Elkins (01:10:43.449)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:10:49.176)
professionally, that’s been my life. So it doesn’t feel any different. It doesn’t feel arduous or, you know, like it’s tough. It’s just like, no, it’s just like my field biology days. So yeah, 280 days in the field, but it gets broken up into many different locations now. Like next month I’m off to take a small group to find snow leopards in the Himalayas and Ladakh. So yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:11:15.994)
super cool. Yeah, yeah.
Scott Davis (01:11:19.136)
So after that, swimming with whales in the Caribbean and then Namibia after that. So yes, there’s a lot of variety now.
Jason Elkins (01:11:30.372)
Very, very cool. I have to ask you this question. I thought about asking a few times and then you mentioned Snow Leopards. There’s a movie that I that I might get the title slightly off, but it’s the Secret Life of Walter Mitty. Are you familiar? Does that ring a bell?
Scott Davis (01:11:45.326)
Yes, absolutely. I have to say as far as that type of film, it’s one of my favorites. I love that film. The one with Ben Stiller in it.
Jason Elkins (01:11:54.654)
It is mine too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because we talked on film and negatives and a few different, and then you mentioned the snow leopards and I was like, I have a feeling that Scott has probably seen that movie.
Scott Davis (01:12:12.781)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (01:12:14.042)
It’s so I wanted to the reason I wanted to ask you because anybody listening to this I would endorse it I think if you have a little bit of wanderlust or the imagination, it’s a little bit of a weird movie, but it’s so cool. So Anyway
Scott Davis (01:12:21.15)
Absolutely. Yes. It’s great. It’s a sweet film too. And there’s a lot to get gleaned from it too.
Jason Elkins (01:12:35.562)
Yes, a lot of a lot of meaning a lot of
Scott Davis (01:12:40.178)
Life, chasing your dreams, that sort of thing. And it’s funny, you mentioned that there’s a character in that film, the photographer character. I’m not going to give away anything. But many of my friends often say, you’re that guy.
Jason Elkins (01:12:48.312)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:12:53.826)
Well, that kind of came up when I was, that’s why I wanted to ask it.
Scott Davis (01:12:57.966)
And so when I watched it, I’m like, well, that’s actually kind of a cool compliment because the guys, I don’t know, Sean Penn does a very good job with it.
Jason Elkins (01:13:08.142)
Yeah, it’s interesting because when I watched that movie, I actually resonate for some reason with Walter Mitty because I’ve worked in tourism. I’ve done some stuff that’s definitely different than what he would do. But a few years ago, I sold all my stuff and started traveling and just made the decision that I’m going to follow my dreams and I’m going to go do those things. And it’s interesting because in the movie,
Scott Davis (01:13:17.891)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Davis (01:13:32.47)
Right. Right.
Jason Elkins (01:13:36.73)
When he’s younger, he was ready to go. He had all his plans lined up. think his father passed away and he ended up getting a job at Papa John’s pizza. I don’t know if you remember that part. might not have made it him. Yeah. So he worked at Papa John’s pizza cause he needed to take care of his, his mom and his family and all that stuff. And, I remember at one point in my life, I was all ready to go. I was in the army. I had a little bit of time left. I was going to get out of the army.
Scott Davis (01:13:42.414)
Yeah.
Scott Davis (01:13:45.74)
Yeah. Yep, yep.
Scott Davis (01:13:54.104)
Right.
Jason Elkins (01:14:01.166)
met somebody ended up with a baby and was working at Papa John’s. So when I watched that movie, it’s like, wow, this is a, it’s pretty, yeah, it’s maybe I’d rather be the Sean Penn guy, but I’ll, guess you got that, you got that role taken. So.
Scott Davis (01:14:01.187)
Right.
Scott Davis (01:14:09.993)
You’re the Walter Mitty.
Scott Davis (01:14:15.294)
No, no, no. The Walter Mitty character is amazing and it does serve as inspiration if you’re not doing the thing that you feel that you were meant to try to find a way to do it anyway, because yeah, before you know it, know, our lifespan gets to a point where you can’t. And so you don’t want to go through life and look back and have too many regrets.
Jason Elkins (01:14:32.334)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:14:39.918)
It.
Scott Davis (01:14:44.68)
One or two is fine, but not a lifetime of them. yeah, follow your dreams.
Jason Elkins (01:14:48.75)
That’s a, that’s a, that’s a great message. And I, I hope people listen to it. Scott, we, we discussed a bunch of things actually for quite a while, a little bit longer than we had actually intended. And I, and there’s still some things I want to ask you, but we’ll have to come back maybe and do that again sometime. But before we wrap up, I’m curious, what did I forget to ask you? What do you wish I’d asked you? Or what do you want to make sure our listeners know about you cheesemans?
Scott Davis (01:15:06.914)
Here.
Jason Elkins (01:15:14.838)
I think you just gave a great life philosophy. we’ve got that covered. is there anything else you want to cover before we wrap up?
Scott Davis (01:15:21.868)
You know, I mentioned I don’t like to talk about myself so much. I’d much rather be behind the camera. So at this point, no, I think it’s been great chatting with you and know you better. And I’ll have more questions for you probably too, your story sounds interesting to me as well.
Jason Elkins (01:15:25.402)
huh.
Jason Elkins (01:15:38.842)
Hahaha!
Jason Elkins (01:15:43.864)
Very, very cool. Well, see, Scott, that’s why you’re such a great trip leader, because that’s exactly what I would expect from a great trip leader. So thank you. Thank you so much. I think you brought a tremendous amount of value to our listeners. was super fun to hear your story. And it’s definitely one that I will remember and probably reference in future conversations with other people as well. So Scott, thank you so much. Appreciate you. Have a great day and I look forward to meeting you on the road somewhere. All right. Thanks, Scott.
Scott Davis (01:15:51.529)
Appreciate that.
Scott Davis (01:16:09.698)
Pleasure Jason, thank you so much.
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