Guest Bio
Steve Wilson is the founder of LiNGER Travel, a company specializing in crafting bespoke sabbaticals and experiential holidays. After leaving a career in banking, Steve embarked on an overland journey through every country in Latin America, gaining invaluable experiences that fueled his passion for travel. He later spent a year conducting destination research in Asia and worked with a high-end travel company in Canada before establishing LiNGER in 2019. Recognized by Travel + Leisure as one of the most influential trip specialists in the world, Steve is dedicated to designing transformative journeys that combine unpretentious luxury with authentic discovery.
Show Summary
In this episode, Steve Wilson shares his journey from a career in banking to founding LiNGER Travel. He discusses the inspiration behind creating a travel company focused on longer, immersive experiences and the importance of responsible travel. Steve reflects on his extensive travels through Latin America and Asia, how these experiences shaped his approach to trip design, and the challenges and rewards of curating personalized journeys that encourage travelers to linger longer and engage deeply with their destinations.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Transformative Travel – The impact of immersive, longer-term journeys on personal growth.
- ✓ Responsible Tourism – The significance of sustainable practices and giving back to local communities.
- ✓ Authentic Experiences – Crafting itineraries that prioritize genuine cultural interactions over traditional luxury.
- ✓ Adaptability in Travel Planning – Navigating the complexities of tailoring trips to individual preferences and unforeseen challenges.
- ✓ Future of Travel – Insights into emerging trends and the evolving desires of modern travelers seeking meaningful experiences.
What You’ll Find on LiNGER Travel’s Platform
- ✓ Customized Sabbaticals – Tailored long-term travel plans that blend adventure, relaxation, and cultural immersion.
- ✓ Experiential Holidays – Curated trips focusing on authentic experiences in off-the-beaten-path destinations.
- ✓ Destination Insights – In-depth information on various locations across Latin America, Asia, Africa, Europe, and Antarctica.
- ✓ Travel Inspiration – Blog posts and articles sharing unique experiences, travel tips, and personal stories from the LiNGER team.
- ✓ Personalized Consultation – Direct access to travel experts for bespoke trip planning and support throughout your journey.
👉 Visit LiNGER Travel’s Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Steve Wilson’s contributions to transformative travel experiences.
Learn more about LiNGER Travel and connect with Steve at:
https://www.linger.co.uk/
Send Steve a Message
Send a short message through this guest feature page. Your email address will be included so they can reply directly.
No need to mention this page. They’ll see your note came through their Big World Made Small guest feature.
Message Sent
Your message has been sent.
Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Guest support helps make the episode possible, but it does not determine who is featured. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.
Guest access: enter your password to unlock your resources.
Incorrect password.
Guest & Partner Resources (Private)
Thank you Steve, for being a Podcast Guest with us.
We’d love to have you join us at the next level and get even more out of your appearance on the Big World Made Small Podcast.
Below you will find access to tools to help you promote your episode and get the most from your partnership benefits. This section is only visible when you use the link we sent, or by entering the password BWMS8873. Do not share the email we sent, or the password, unless you want the person to access the following resources.
Follow, Rate, or Provide a Testimonial
Please use this tracking link to share with your audience:
https://bigworldmadesmall.com/guest/steve-wilson/?ref=guest8873
Cover Art
This is available to all podcast guests.
Download the file to use on your website or social media posts.
Buzzsprout Audio Player
This is available to all podcast guests.
This is the best option for website embeds, especially prior to the release date. Guests can listen to your episode on your website. This player keeps listeners on your site, which is why I use it.
Use this code to embed your Buzzsprout Player directly on your website:
<div id="buzzsprout-player-15231890"></div><script src="https://www.buzzsprout.com/2216718/episodes/15231890-adventure-travel-with-steve-wilson-linger-travel.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-15231890&player=small" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>Full-Length YouTube Video Player
This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
45 Minute One-on-One Website Review
This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©
This is available to Expedition & Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
All Video & Audio Files with Rights to Repurpose
This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
45 Minute Content Strategy Session
This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
Custom Branded Video Clips (12 clips)
This is available to Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
2 x 45 Minute Digital Marketing Strategy Sessions
This is available to Summit Partners.
Upgrade to unlock these benefits.
Review & Suggest Topic Tags
Review Episode Topics
These topic suggestions help keep this episode profile accurate and easier to find. Your suggestions will be reviewed before any changes are made.
Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.936)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the big world made small adventure travel podcast. Today we’ve got Steve Wilson. Steve is the founder of linger travel. I had a conversation with him a couple of weeks ago and what he’s doing is, is a little bit different than most of the guests we’ve had on the show, but it’s, I definitely think it fits within the realm of adventure travel. you know, as you define it as getting out there, doing new things, having new experiences and Steve’s excited about that. So Steve.
Happy to have you on the show, welcome.
Steve Wilson (00:33.9)
Thanks Jason, very good to be on the show.
Jason Elkins (00:36.56)
We’re gonna, Steve, we’re gonna dig a little bit into kind of who you are as a person, your background, what got you from where you are to, from where you were to where you are now. And I kind of hinted that Lingers a little bit different. So we ought to touch on that before we go too much further. So what do you think kind of separates you from maybe some of the other guests we’ve had on the show as far as your business?
Steve Wilson (00:58.828)
Well, Linga in its simplest format is a sabbatical planning specialist. And we look to create trips that are complex. So it’s created trip planning, it’s complex trip planning. The longer and more out there, the brief is the sort of thing we thrive on. I’ve made it difficult for myself. We’ve made it difficult for ourselves as a company, but it makes it interesting. It makes it exciting. And it’s…
If ever there was a niche, I would say this is definitely a niche.
Jason Elkins (01:32.432)
I believe so. And I think the last time we spoke, I wasn’t completely clear on the word sabbatical. I grew up, my mother was in academia and so the term sabbatical was thrown out there and it was, so my definition floating around in my head was that you had to pitch a big project to the university you worked at to go on some exotic year away type of thing. But the way you described it was a little different. So how do you define sabbatical for our listeners?
Steve Wilson (01:51.372)
That’s it.
Steve Wilson (01:56.396)
It is, I mean, essentially, it’s having a longer than normal period of time to travel. It doesn’t mean being on the road all the time. It doesn’t mean it has to be some epic adventure. It doesn’t mean equally that you’re sitting there writing a book or studying for a project or something in the traditional academic terms. In fact, in our world with it, it’s far more relevant to entrepreneurs, to certain industries where…
And more and more in recent times where that balance of having a time away from work, mid -career, towards the end of the career, early on in some occasions, depending on the scenario, affords that luxury of time to get away from the usual routine. And it’s not.
Jason Elkins (02:45.904)
Is there a length of time, Steve, that you kind of, like when you and your colleagues sit around, you’re like, okay, a sabbatical, or maybe the better way to put this is the clients we work with are typically gonna travel for X amount of time minimum, or is it, what does that look like?
Steve Wilson (03:01.58)
No, there’s no hard and fast rule. I mean, in our line, if we can add value to a trip in terms of the creativity and what they want out of it, then that’s a good fit. And if we can’t, then there’s plenty of other companies that would be more better suited. Sobatical in terms of duration, I mean, if someone’s only ever taken a week off or three days or four days in their career and they’re building whatever they’ve done, a month can be seven times.
whatever they’ve done in the last 10 years, it can feel like an eternity to be a way for and a real luxury for them. So there’s no hard and fast rule. We’ve planned on the shorter length, if it comes under the sabbatical sort of notion, it would probably be about a month and upwards, but equally at the other end, the 12 month range is probably the limit. And, you know, tailor making or being heavily involved with someone’s life.
on the road for 12 months where you’ve got a bespoke year ahead of you in a sense is that’s a long period of time. You know, it’s a long time for us to be in contact with them. Usually or historically, I say, and I use the term historically is it sort of pre and post COVID because before people would plan differently and more in advance and going back five, six years, even technology was in a different, different stage. And now.
Jason Elkins (04:19.216)
Yep.
Steve Wilson (04:30.892)
post -COVID there is more of that decision to be on the road and plan as you go. And so it’s a different sort of level and type of involvement that we’re finding. But certainly traditionally, someone was planning, say six months or up to a year away, they would get in touch at least a year in advance. So you’re in regular contact with those individuals. They’re then traveling for a whole year. So you’ve had two years of getting to know these people. That’s a long time.
Jason Elkins (05:00.592)
Wow, yeah, I think any trip planner, especially in the adventure travel space or in the, just something that’s a little bit more hands -on, any planner in this business kind of creates a little bit of a connection with their clients, probably really enjoys that. But really, it’s usually one week or two weeks away and the planner kind of sets everything up. There’s a little bit of back and forth at the beginning, once they get it all set up and then they have their processes in place.
Steve Wilson (05:11.724)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (05:20.524)
Yeah. Absolutely.
Jason Elkins (05:31.024)
and the guest goes and maybe they chat about it after they get back, but I can’t even imagine working with somebody for so long.
Steve Wilson (05:36.364)
No, it’s a absolutely and every individual is different. Some are more adventurous than others. Others want more handholding. Others have traveled. Some have traveled a lot. And so they’re very comfortable on the road, but they didn’t want to, you know, do it as they had done before. They’ve got a higher budget because these things clearly are expensive. You know, it’s that jump from backpacking to true flash packing, if you like, for one of the better of a term and, and traveling for that extended time. So.
you know, technology as well has helped us. I mean, it’s good and bad. WhatsApp is the key, app for, for communication and the ease with which you can fix problems is brilliant with that, you know, and equally, you know, just to engage with someone or connect when you need to, but the downside is that you cannot escape. So you’re, you’re easily accessible, but that helps the people we work with. So, typically speaking.
Jason Elkins (06:12.848)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (06:32.976)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (06:35.052)
no major emergencies.
Jason Elkins (06:37.04)
And it’s interesting also because I can imagine that selecting the right person to plan a trip like this is super important. If you take one or two short vacations a year and go do something, they’re important to you. I’m not going to say they’re not important, but if there’s a…
Steve Wilson (06:51.596)
Mm -mm.
Jason Elkins (06:57.84)
You know, if you choose the wrong operator, you know, maybe there’s a lot of bumps along the way. It’s a week, it’s a week and a half. It’s like, OK, well, we’re probably going to use someone else next time. But, you know, if you’re taking a year off from work to go really do this, I mean, that’s like super important. You don’t want to get one month into it and realize that everything you’ve booked for the next 11 months was booked by somebody that was maybe not paying real close attention.
Steve Wilson (07:08.204)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (07:13.132)
this.
Jason Elkins (07:24.592)
It’s hard to kind of change gears. So I imagine that people are pretty careful about selecting to work with you.
Steve Wilson (07:24.684)
Absolutely. Yeah, the.
That’s it. I mean, a big part of it is that that mentality of having that, you know, excessive attention to detail and being that with detail planners, we get it and it rolls into your own lives and it can drive your family nuts in terms of how you envisage things, how you operate. But that’s we have a small team, but we’ve traveled a lot. You know, most of the 60, 70 countries that we feature.
we’ve got good first hand knowledge and I don’t mean a long weekend or a transit point. It’s really taking time to go deep off the beaten path and that’s a big part of what we encourage. But equally, yeah, it’s understanding that attention to detail and we’ve tried and tested it. Myself, I’ve done three very long extended trips and I’m always thinking of the next one. So…
We go far beyond the obvious. Far beyond, I use the term, matchy pitches of the world, which is a major highlight in Peru and I love it there. But Peru is an example. There’s so much more to that enormous country than just that circuit. And it’s great to be able to bring those other areas of a country like that into an extended trip when someone has that time.
Jason Elkins (08:51.28)
So you mentioned kind of attention to detail, your own personal, you touched on your, you know, some of your own personal travel and some of the experiences that your team has. So this is a great opportunity for us to just jump back. We’re going to hit rewind. We’re going to go all the way back as far as you want to go. And usually people in this business have some kind of defining moment or something that happened early on that caused them to want to do this. I’m curious what your story is. How far back do you want to go?
Steve Wilson (08:59.372)
Thank you.
Steve Wilson (09:04.78)
Hmm.
Steve Wilson (09:14.828)
Mm.
Steve Wilson (09:20.012)
I didn’t come from a family of people who were into traveling, slash holidays, vacations, whatever you want to call it. It was definitely, I was the strange one in the family. I could never get over going home. I hate, until to this day, I hate going home from a trip. I find that I really have the blues. And that comes from young childhood, but I didn’t ever have that exposure to the world. So it wasn’t growing up in a…
diplomats family and military family where you move around, you know certain industries, but It was lurking and actually it was it was watching Michael Paley During his travel shows and his first one around the world in 80 days and then the poll Poulter poll and I probably saw that early mid teens and thought well that looks fun and you just sort of park it in the brain, but something that’s you’ve enjoyed watching and it and it really You know, it just sort of set a thought
for adventure, but you grow up, I mean, nobody thinks, certainly at the time of working in experiential travel or this world, I mean, we grew up thinking there’s about three jobs in the world, banking, law, or…
Jason Elkins (10:30.48)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (10:31.148)
Countessy, you know, and so having gone into one of those industries for a few years, it wasn’t great. I thought I had a thirst for adventure. I’d lived in Mexico for a year and I’d learned languages. So, you know, it all sort of fell into place of getting a taste of Mexico in the late 90s when, especially as a Brit, it was pretty exotic. It wasn’t a destination that you went to. And I went over there and I traveled it with the lonely planet and
read this thing more closely than any book I’d ever studied in my life.
Jason Elkins (11:06.484)
I’m going to stop you, Steve. You mentioned that you went one of those more traditional paths for a while. And for the listeners that aren’t able to see your face, I saw kind of the look on your face. And I don’t want to disparage any particular line of work because we all have our own thing. But what were you doing before you went to Mexico or finance? Okay.
Steve Wilson (11:24.876)
Finance. I was in the investment bank for a few years and it wasn’t a good time anyway to be in it. So it was tough at that particular time for that industry. And I thought, well, I’ll take a time out. And I went away with a return ticket knowing I was going to ignore that return. And I went through every country in Latin America over land.
Jason Elkins (11:47.056)
-huh.
Steve Wilson (11:54.924)
or by water where you can’t, you couldn’t really go through the Darien Gap to get from Panama to Colombia. And at the end of it, thought, well, that’s a lot of countries and it was a year and a half on the road. Let’s see if that knowledge could be useful. And then that’s where it sort of began, working with specialist travel operators over here. At the time, it’s 20 years ago now, there were just a handful of, say, Latin America specialists.
So I was one of those and and and that was the the starting point and I moved around and yeah
Jason Elkins (12:30.064)
What did your family, friends, other people in your world, maybe even your employer in the finance world, what did they all think when you picked up and took off?
Steve Wilson (12:39.212)
They couldn’t really relate, but I knew I was fairly mad. You know, at the age of 20 or whatever, they said, well, where are you going this year for the holiday? And I bought a ticket to Venezuela. It was, you know, it doesn’t have the best reputation now. And back then it didn’t really either. So that’s where I was going for my first exploration solo. And that was just a two, three week holiday to get away. But yeah, they couldn’t relate. But…
Jason Elkins (12:40.656)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (12:49.296)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (13:09.228)
It was something I had to do. And then…
Jason Elkins (13:10.768)
Did you, when you were, when you were younger, before you did that, I, I’m reflecting kind of on some of my own experiences. I’m curious if you kind of relate as well as before I really started traveling or when I’ve been in places in my life where I couldn’t travel as much, I had a hard time connecting with people. I just kind of always felt like I didn’t really understand them. They were so into having the house in the car and the dog and the cat. And then.
Steve Wilson (13:28.172)
Hmm.
Steve Wilson (13:35.084)
Thank you.
Jason Elkins (13:37.936)
You know, I’ve been traveling full -time now for about two and a half years. And I noticed when I travel, I start to run into other people that are traveling and it’s like, my gosh, these people get it. Like where were you when I was growing up or, or whatever, you know, did you have that experience as well?
Steve Wilson (13:41.036)
Mm -mm.
Steve Wilson (13:49.068)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (13:53.676)
Absolutely. a hundred percent. Yeah. And then you make some of your best friends on the road, the people you can connect with, you know, and then you run into them again and it becomes a smaller world. And I love that element. I love the freedom of it, the unscripted freedom to be able to get away and explore at your pace. And that’s what I had done for that year and a half and only returned home once I’d completed that.
Jason Elkins (13:59.28)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (14:23.372)
full circle and really covered it, fulfilled that dream of seeing every country in Latin America, which had its highs and lows. And I always say this with the sabbaticals that we plan, you don’t go away on a long trip and expect every day to be one massive hike. That’s just not human nature. You’ll have your challenges. You’ll have your personal admin. You need to build in time to get other things done that are going.
Jason Elkins (14:31.344)
It’s sad, it’s…
Jason Elkins (14:44.592)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (14:52.204)
on back at home because you’re not probably 18, you know, it’s not that quite that same backpacker waiting 25 backpacker mentality, but you know, you, you’ve tried to prepare people psychologically psychologically for the travel life on the road, which is a key part of it.
Jason Elkins (15:08.976)
Yeah, let’s discuss some of those because I’ve experienced them just in the last couple of years. I know you have in your travels as well. And if somebody is getting ready, like, okay, I’m going to go for a year, whether they’re booking with you or not, maybe you just have a friend that’s like, man, I just sold all my stuff. I’m just going to go travel for a year. What are the like surprise things that you think you’d mention? Like, hey, don’t be surprised when this happens. What kind of advice would you give?
Steve Wilson (15:21.324)
Hmm.
Steve Wilson (15:26.411)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (15:32.204)
Mm -hmm.
Well I think it all depends how you’re going. If you’re going on your own, you know, ultimately you’ve got the old, that’s the, in some respects is the easiest because you haven’t got to compromise any decisions. It’s all about what you want to do, where you want to go. You can make all the decisions with that. And we do a number of trips for solo travelers. The downside of that, you can drive yourself a bit crazy traveling too long on your own. And when, as you said, when you don’t run into those other people, the like -minded or the…
the conversation, that can get a bit lonely. And there’s only so many meals you feel like undertaking in a restaurant and table for one.
Jason Elkins (16:14.992)
Right. And even if you, even if you do meet those people that are like -minded, they kind of have their own path. They’ve got their plan there, you know, so maybe you, you stay, you know, if you’re the type that stays at a hostel or something, or some sort of guest house, you meet them, but then three days later, they’re leaving to go a different direction. So I feel like when I meet them, I feel, okay, there’s other people in the world like that. And then they leave and.
Steve Wilson (16:29.292)
Thank you.
Steve Wilson (16:33.74)
You’re going, Youssef, way. Absolutely.
Steve Wilson (16:39.944)
That’s it.
Jason Elkins (16:42.16)
I really enjoy connecting with the local communities, but they all kind of think you’re crazy too, to be honest. I mean, it’s like, I love, I’m in Columbia right now and I love the Colombian people, the culture. And pretty much every time I meet somebody, they’re like, you’re here by yourself. You don’t have any family here. You don’t have a home back in like they ask, where do you live in the U S I don’t live in the U S I live here. where do you, you know, and I live in an Airbnb.
Steve Wilson (16:47.852)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (16:59.688)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (17:10.544)
here and I don’t have a family and nobody’s traveling with me and they just kind of frankly look at me like I’m crazy and you know and I meet
Steve Wilson (17:18.22)
Yeah. And that’s, I mean, and that’s often it’s so far removed to those cultures to, you know, embark on these long trips anyway. I mean, it’s very much a part of say more our worlds, these sort of things. And, you know, and if you think of the younger generations who are doing the backpacking, it’s typically, you know, well, there’ll be certain parts of the world and countries where that just isn’t an option for different reasons. But, you know, one of the things if you’re traveling, so that we, I would encourage that you,
will do some sort of activity, be it a hike, a multi -day thing like that, or some sort of mini journey within that where you’re going to be with other people. So you join up, or sign them up on a small group basis, and you’ve got that camaraderie. And yes, at the end of it, you’re probably going in separate directions again. And quite honestly, a lot of the people, they don’t want that commitment of traveling. That’s why they’re going solo. But I think that helps to strike a balance.
between too much time on your own and bit of company.
Jason Elkins (18:16.912)
I think you’re right. I found myself, yep, makes sense. I found myself specifically in Southeast Asia for some reason. I was just like, okay, I’m going to go book. I booked a day to the elephant sanctuary in Thailand and the elephants were fun. And it was also kind of nice to be around some other travelers just for a day because I’m working as well as I travel. So I do tend to spend a lot of time in my coworking space or in my Airbnb in front of my computer.
Steve Wilson (18:28.464)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (18:36.396)
Absolutely.
Jason Elkins (18:45.936)
And having having that connection. I agree. I think that that’s something that catches a lot of people by surprise is the potential loneliness of it and people back home not understanding. Sometimes there’s a lot of pressure to, Hey, you know, dad, are you going to be back and, you know, are you going to be back for my birthday? And like, you know, that’s I’ve got a teenage son who travels with me in the summers. His birthday is in early September. He’s with me all summer yet wants me to be back in Arizona for his birthday in early September. And it’s it presents.
Steve Wilson (18:53.9)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (19:03.436)
Mm -hmm. You know.
Jason Elkins (19:15.472)
presents its own challenges. And then of course, there’s finding the laundromat. Because I’ve learned that places here in Columbia don’t have dryers, and it’s very humid. So doing laundry can be a pain.
Steve Wilson (19:16.876)
It does.
Steve Wilson (19:20.652)
That’s it.
Steve Wilson (19:28.588)
And I think one of those things that comes up almost on every conversation about mathematical or along the trip is no matter what your financial background is, your wealth, people don’t like paying hotel laundry prices. It’s understandable as well when you see them in places. And yeah, understanding how that all works. They’re the sort of tidbits of information we help them with because we’re used to it.
You know, communications, eSims these days are helping depending on your phone as opposed to changing SIMs in every country. Obviously Wi -Fi is in most places, but it’s that how to stay in touch. You know, that sort of life admin is definitely part of the planning.
Jason Elkins (20:13.552)
Right, right. So I’m curious, the people in your life, cause you live in the UK. So the people in your life that are close to you there, are they all fully on board or do you have your own challenges with family, friends when you go travel, do they get you now or have you surrounded yourself? What does that look like for you?
Steve Wilson (20:18.476)
Yes.
Steve Wilson (20:32.382)
No, I have a family that’s understanding on it. And the upside, I’ve got a five and just turned eight year old now. And I started taking the older one away when he just turned six. And it felt the right time. And we actually, as a family, we divide up a little bit with the kids sometimes. And six felt the right age to start.
with the older one and we get this quality time. I take them away for a couple of weeks. We’ve been to Costa Rica, Panama, Ireland, and then parts of the UK, lots of Western Europe. And having that time, that connection time together is absolutely brilliant as a parent and sharing.
Jason Elkins (21:18.992)
Okay, let’s go there. What are the challenges of it? Because I can appreciate the positive sides of it, but what are the challenges? Because someone might be listening to this that has young kids and trying to figure out how do I go have these adventures with an eight -year -old or an 18 -year -old. My son is 17. Love him to death. He spent one summer with me in Guatemala, Mexico, Belize. He spent the next summer in Southeast Asia and he’s spending this summer in Columbia with me. And the truth is, and I don’t think he’d be embarrassed by me sharing this,
Steve Wilson (21:30.572)
That’s it. Yes sir.
Thank you.
Steve Wilson (21:37.74)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (21:48.56)
He really doesn’t like traveling. You know, he’s super excited before and he’s like, dad, I can’t wait to go to Columbia. I want to have been day up eyes on data data data. And then, you know, a week in he’s kind of like, man, I miss my bed. I miss my, you know, I miss my mom. I miss my this and that. So what can you share about that?
Steve Wilson (21:53.228)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (22:05.128)
Yeah, absolutely. And especially, I mean, possibly, possibly more challenging at that age, you know, that late teens like with your son, it’s, it’s a tricky age where you’ve so connected with your group, your, your friends back home. I’ve, I think I’ve caught Oliver at the right time where he’s early enough to sort of introduce him to it, but he’s not so used to having, you know, he’s not constantly with his group of friends because he doesn’t have that level of independence and he will miss certain things, but actually,
Jason Elkins (22:12.976)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (22:34.956)
bringing them into it quite young and choosing the right destinations a big part of it, especially for families. And I mentioned Costa Rica for me, it’s one of our biggest selling in terms of the number of travelers we send to Costa Rica. And yes, it’s on people’s radars. Many have been there and it has its established little circuit, but there’s so much to that little country. And in terms of being a safe for a parent, bringing young children around, decent healthcare, decent.
with our network, contacts on the ground, welcoming guys, the Latino hospitality of just being very, very good with families and very natural around kids makes such a difference. And two years on, the number of times he’ll say to me, dad, when are we going back to Costa Rica? I absolutely love it. And then we took him to Panama. And Panama is a similar sort of extension to that. But the challenges are the road, the travel side on the road.
every child is going to tell you know when are we there and you know how long is this another another you know a few hours in the car and and quite honestly you’ve got to do in my eyes what’s going to be easiest for you for your own sanity and and the tablet comes in there and when when i took him to costa rica we had the tablet and i suddenly thought i need one of those things for the headrest where i can fix it into the the car that we’re going around in.
Jason Elkins (23:52.24)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (24:03.532)
I’ve never seen him so excited. It was like it was Christmas day again when I walked out with this thing clipped that into the headrest of the vehicle and he was happy that for every single drive we did. So it just, it made it sane for me and made it, it made him, it was, he was happy. He did not complain thereafter for any journey in the car. And we were driving at times for three, four, five hours. But then when you get somewhere you’re active and you’re walking. And so I think it all.
Jason Elkins (24:15.44)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (24:32.94)
It all balances out.
Jason Elkins (24:34.416)
And I think when I heard you saying all that, I thought the pop in my head is it’s really much more important to kind of, I’m going to say choose your battles because I’m not sure what else, what other way to say it. But when you’re traveling in a place that’s not as consistent, not as a routine, that whole need to choose your battles becomes a lot more important. So for example, you know, I grew up in Wyoming. I grew up in the mountains. There was always great tap water, right? You know,
Steve Wilson (24:49.932)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (25:02.956)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (25:03.28)
The idea of buying a bottle of water for me is still kind of weird unless I really, unless I feel like I need it, you know, because it’s all about me. But my son won’t drink tap water pretty much everywhere we go because he’s, you know, he worries about stuff. And so, you know, I’m buying bottles of water and it’s like drives me nuts. I’m like, there’s tap water right there and he won’t drink. And finally, when I realized, you know what, this would be a lot easier. And, you know, bottle of water in Columbia is.
Steve Wilson (25:08.904)
Yep. Yep. Same game. Same weekend. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (25:25.772)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (25:30.864)
you know, 75 cents. I mean, this is this is really about just me and my issues. Or you mentioned laundry earlier, you know, like, yeah, I don’t want to spend a lot of money for laundry. I’ll walk 12 blocks to find a laundromat. And, you know, my son doesn’t want to do that. So, yeah, it’s.
Steve Wilson (25:32.288)
Yes.
Steve Wilson (25:39.852)
It’s your life.
Steve Wilson (25:47.564)
Yeah, well I think that again that goes back to, you know, we’ve introduced the kids from a young age and that’s quite common with a lot of the families. I’d say sort of six upwards, that’s why I kind of chose that age and every child’s different. You’ll get the ultra confident three -year -old at times but they’re going to be rare. But I think the younger you can, within reason and within what’s practical and sensible, again with the destination.
introduce them to it as a family. You shouldn’t feel put off. You know, you don’t need to wait till they’re 20 because you might have missed the boat. Then in terms of getting in the book or getting you can’t force the travel as you said, you know, we talked about earlier with my network of friends that was not it wasn’t influenced by any of them that I fell into this industry or had the travel bug. But, you know, if you can influence it in some way and they get it when they’re younger that that’s it.
Jason Elkins (26:23.344)
I, yeah, that’s the other thing I would say is definitely.
Steve Wilson (26:45.612)
certainly helps. And it’s so educational. What you learn, especially with these big long trips, what I’ve seen with families in particular, again, with the kids return, the maturity levels they’ve reached and what they’ve seen and done and almost the levels of complacency for, you know, another elephant or another, whatever it is. But they’ve grown as individuals and that’s really always quite special to see.
Jason Elkins (26:45.744)
Well, it can become kind of part of their life. I mean, it’s just, it’s normal for them.
Steve Wilson (27:14.924)
We have a thing where you have to write your diary each morning and then you can have that over breakfast. But that’s the morning task. Leaving that to the end of the day, it won’t happen probably. So it’s a little thing to bring that educational component and to help them remember it as well. Some of our longer trips, we have worked with families where they’ve had a nanny that travels with them for…
Jason Elkins (27:34.384)
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s very cool.
Steve Wilson (27:44.588)
an extended period of time. Others are educating, either the online options for learning digitally these days are vast. So again, technology has helped with that sort of thing where that’s going to be a natural worry for a parent if they’re missing out on their standard education. And it will always be a big challenge as part of it, but there are ways to make that work.
Jason Elkins (28:10.224)
It’s, it’s very cool. I remember when I was, when I was actually the elephant sanctuary went to an, and, and Northern Thailand, there was a family from, I think they were from Switzerland and you know, father, mother, two teenage daughters, and they were doing, I think they’d signed up for six months. They were traveling in Southeast Asia for six months and the girls were kind of doing the remote learning and yeah, it was cool.
And they’d already been traveling for a month or two. And I remember thinking, man, that’s, that’s really, really cool. or I just, I get Jackson for summer break, but I think something longer could be pretty cool. but then also if you, you know, but then also sometimes I would encourage people to consider the shorter trips if they’re really like, cause I keep doing that with my son, I get him for two months and I’m like, okay, we’re going for two months. We’re going hard. We’re going to be at a different place every three or four days.
Steve Wilson (28:45.42)
The elephant’s going to eat you.
Steve Wilson (29:00.684)
No, sir.
Steve Wilson (29:07.564)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (29:07.952)
And like now I’m at like, you know, two or three weeks, a two or three week trip for him would be pretty cool. so.
Steve Wilson (29:16.14)
And that’s a different, yeah, it’s a manageable length of time to maintain that, that energy and the enthusiasm. But I think when you run into the months, you know, anything sort of three months plus, I will always encourage a good, well, strategic points where you’re taking a pause somewhere and you’re, you know, you’re, a, you’re staying for longer in the same place. And there’s not the packing, unpacking, but equally just giving them the opportunities to get involved in something. And this stems from my background.
as well. When I went off for that year and a half, I was exhausted at times, you know, and you know, you need to just stop somewhere you find somewhere where you can live, so to speak for, for a number of weeks or a month or so. And there’s so many projects, especially in chunks of the world, like parts of Latin America, Asia, Africa, wherever to get involved. And that, A, you’re doing something meaningful B, you’re learning and sharing skills that you may have to be able to help out.
see you’re connecting with other people. So you’re having that company and working on projects, whatever it may be. I did this in Nicaragua. I did this in Bolivia, and in Belize and, and it really, it really worked to give you somewhere to call home for a period of time. It gave you a purpose. It gave you that, that network of people around you, you could relate to.
and have a bit of fun with. So, and you’re, you know, you’re helping, you know, be it people related teaching English to kids, to conservation efforts, to wildlife. There’s so much out there now.
Jason Elkins (31:00.208)
And Steve, I suspect that since you’re, you know, since you’re working with your clients, the way you do longer stays, it sounds like those are things you guys can actually help with as well to kind of help them get grounded like that. Whereas a traditional tour operator, I mean, it may have, you know, you’re going to go out for a day and visit a village and help plant a tree or something. But, with a long -term stay, I think that that is important to really. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (31:06.988)
Mm.
Steve Wilson (31:11.596)
Yeah, that’s it.
Steve Wilson (31:17.612)
That’s it. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (31:26.924)
There is, yeah. And there’s a lot of projects out there, you know, and different NGOs which aren’t running the way, certainly their website would depict, but through our network and through our experiences, we’ve, we’ve, we found some very good places, which, you know, everything is going to that cause. It’s, this isn’t part of trying to make money out of it’s, it’s, it needs help. So, yeah, we’ve, we’ve done our homework on that.
Jason Elkins (31:53.776)
Do you ever, do you feel like sometimes with your clients, you need to like slow them down, put the brakes on and help them realize, because I can imagine someone coming to you, I want to be in a different country every week. And if they’ve never traveled long -term like that, I could see why they would do that. Right? Okay. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (31:59.596)
Yeah. Cool.
Steve Wilson (32:09.004)
always, almost always. The bucket list, this is the wish list. And I’ll, you know, have you got 10 years? It’s, you know, this is, and it’s not understand, especially coming from the UK, you know, we’re a geographic, it’s a very small country. And even here, you may not have traveled that much, and it’s going to take a number of hours to get somewhere. But the logistics, and that’s a big part of what we’re doing from our experiences on the road.
Jason Elkins (32:18.48)
Hahaha
Steve Wilson (32:38.924)
making those point to point journeys seamless and, you know, be it by road, flying at times, but you don’t want to be in and out of an airport every two days. That makes you travel weary. So yes, it’s always bringing people back in on that wish list. And, you know, you don’t need to go to every single national park in whatever country it might be. You don’t need to see every glacier because they’ll all blur eventually. It’s the same with the safaris.
Jason Elkins (33:06.384)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (33:08.524)
14 days of non -stop safari is too much for most people. You need that. Exactly. And so slowing the pace down is a massive part of what we do. Equally trying to sort of keep people happy. They’ll have their wishlist for a reason. They want to see certain things, but the planning, a big part of it is this ongoing discussion. You know, you have an initial pitch.
Jason Elkins (33:13.744)
How many wildebeest can you see, or elephants, or yeah?
Steve Wilson (33:36.94)
And we’re very big on always been in terms of giving the warnings that here’s the great things about what you’ve come up with, what will happen here. But here’s a lot of the negatives. Here’s the things to be aware of. We should talk through these to make sure this is the right plan. And I think you’ve got to be a bit forceful and pushy to help them make those decisions at times because you know what’s going to come. You know, fatigue, grumpiness kicks in.
If you’re traveling as a family, you will fall out of times. You’ll have a, you know, battling with kids or other hearts, whatever. There’s, you know, it’s just real life. And to my point that you don’t go away and any other problems in your life just evaporate. You know, your child may still be a challenge. Speaking from my experience. So it’s all part of it. And if you’re going too fast and trying to pack in too much, you’re physically and mentally exhausted. And that’s…
Jason Elkins (34:27.472)
Yeah, yeah.
Steve Wilson (34:36.3)
take away from the enjoyment. So you need these big wow moments within it, but you equally need slower paced, simpler stuff where you’re just being and doing nothing. I always say this is doing nothing is doing something. And it’s a big part of doing nothing. It’s just being able to refresh, take a step back, think about what you’ve seen and done and reflect, make sure it’s going as you want.
Jason Elkins (35:05.264)
Do you get either families, couples, singles, will you get people that’s okay, I’m planning a year, but then they go home a few times during that year. So they break it up a bit, which is probably a good idea for a lot of people.
Steve Wilson (35:14.828)
Yeah, they do. Absolutely. Some do. Yeah, we’ve worked with people who have a mission perhaps of seeing every country in the world. It may be very briefly at times, but yeah, that will be a long -term project over a number of years and with no fixed end to it, but they’ll certainly be back at home and then back out on the road again.
depending on the line of work, depending on the circumstances, the situations. So…
Jason Elkins (35:46.48)
I know, I know each person is kind of their, their own person. And when you get somebody come to you, I want to do, I want to visit every country in the world. Like just between you and I, nobody’s listening to this, I’m sure. And, what do you think? I mean, is that like, what do you think of that ambition either for yourself personally, or when you hear that, what are the first things that come up for you?
Steve Wilson (36:11.948)
For me, it’s a lot. I don’t have an issue with it. Just as long as it’s not just a ticking box exercise. What I don’t like is just is rushing unnecessarily, you know, and some places naturally you’re going to spend a shorter amount of time and it is just across the border. It could well be. But if that was the the method of traveling for the whole goal of something extreme like that, and it really is, then I wouldn’t encourage it.
Jason Elkins (36:39.056)
It’s almost not really about traveling. Well, it’s traveling, but it’s not about experiencing, right?
Steve Wilson (36:41.932)
Also, you’d be exhausted. You’d spend more time just flying than anything else, than being on the road. You get tired of border crossings as well when you’re on the road. And visas, the complexity of that to try and do something epic is a big consideration. And certain things you have to go back home to sort out the next visa for, that’s a consideration. And of course, budget.
Jason Elkins (37:08.08)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (37:10.604)
is a huge factor if you’re taking on something I think like that. I like to go along the practical approach of more along the lines of less is more. Go deeper within the country and don’t I don’t like the talk of I’ve done Africa, I’ve done this. I hate that term. And you haven’t, you know, typically and there’s so much more you could do. But I mean, feedback at times as well for those on these longer trips.
they really get a buzz more of getting off that beaten path and they feel more awkward almost or put off by a country where they’re right on that gringo trail for example the Machu Picchu trail and having that as part of it because you have to see it again I’m highlighting Peru but you go off somewhere like doctor falls or up to the north or venture off to the coast parts of Colombia are good examples you know
Cartagena will receive a huge footfall of visitors and many of those may just be off a cruise ship for half a day, but you then venture off to these random little Andean villages or riverside places that conjure up the Gabriel Garcia Marquez books and that’s what you’ll connect with more the longer you’re on the road with and you’ll love that sense of feeling, wow, I’m on my own here. There’s a little bit of sense of discovery. I mean, I felt like that certainly when I was on the road.
Jason Elkins (38:32.432)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (38:38.092)
I always had an issue years and years ago, and this is not the case now because I adore Costa Rica. I know it so much better. But when I first turned up there, I spent months and years in Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and it just felt so, so extremely different there. And then Costa Rica felt too almost civilized, which is apparent and going somewhere to Latin America for the first time is absolutely brilliant. But at the time, it wasn’t extreme enough for what I wanted at that particular point.
And then you hit Bolivia or the Guyanas and that’s incredible for that sense of…
Jason Elkins (39:16.112)
It’s a, I don’t know if it’s a conflict or, you know, earlier we’re kind of speaking about being lonely and sometimes it was great to go out and kind of be around your tribe, the other people that are kind of doing the same thing you’re doing. And at the same time, what you were just saying resonates with me because when I show up somewhere, I, it’s weird, but I kind of almost judge it like, is this a good place based on the absence of other travelers? You know, it’s like,
Steve Wilson (39:23.82)
Mm.
Steve Wilson (39:27.5)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (39:44.876)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (39:46.)
I feel some sense of like this place must be really cool for me to be because I don’t see any other, you know, I’m going to use the term gringos. I don’t see any other gringos around here. So therefore it must be a higher value experience, which there’s some truth to that, but not necessarily, but it I’m not sure where I’m going with this other than just, you know, I’m in Armenia, I’m in Armenia in Columbia now, which is not completely off the beaten path.
Steve Wilson (39:52.556)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (40:15.088)
but it’s definitely different. I’ve spent most of my time in Medellin. So it’s pretty much the, you know, it’s very, very different from that. And I love it. I’m like, wow, I don’t see any other foreigners, any other travelers here. This must be, this must be great. And of course, then my son is with me who is already a little uncomfortable and misses home. And you know, so maybe Medellin is a better place. You know, it’s just a constant thing.
Steve Wilson (40:15.148)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (40:27.34)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (40:40.236)
No, and that will be a very personal thing. If you’re coming from city life, and that’s your normal home life, wherever you’re from and your work, you’re going to miss probably that city. There’s only so much countryside being completely silent and being on your own. It all sounds romantic, but I think that novelty can wear off actually quite quickly, and you suddenly need people and life around you. And I think from our job, we’re…
massive part of it is getting to know the travelers really really well you know and it’s meeting them it’s doing the face -to -face because you can’t learn about someone just on the phone or on email but I I always look at you know depending on where it is in the world you will know there’s places you could go and be and live for a little bit and living for a bit could be a week but it’ll give you that fix of something you can relate to and equally somewhere you’d
comfortably and safely and happily wander around because there’s a bit of street life or a good market or cafe culture, just people watching. And it could well be a hub like a Cusco or Antigua Guatemala or I love Luang Prabang in Laos. I think that’s got that sort of vibe where yes, most tourists, if anyone goes to Laos, then they will be in Luang Prabang. It’s equally somewhere you can just be and be independent as well with it.
as opposed to be overly handheld. There’s other things, you know, if you want to go off and hike across Patagonia or what have you, you’re better off having a guide and having some structure and an incredible route and going off of peace. But I think there’s certain places in the world which I find that really have their place to just enjoy that place and be a bit more independent and then move on again.
Jason Elkins (42:35.632)
Right, right.
Steve Wilson (42:35.692)
and that’s part of slowing the pace.
Jason Elkins (42:38.736)
Steve, I’m curious, because as I hear you discuss all this, I’m imagining, and you mentioned having kind of that initial, probably not one conversation, obviously, but you’re doing some sort of face -to -face with your client. And I’m almost envisioning like a psychological assessment, you know, for somebody, yeah, that somebody’s going to be traveling for a year, they’re coming to you, and you want to understand them, you want to figure out, can you help them? Can you support them in achieving their goals? Are their goals realistic?
Steve Wilson (42:54.124)
It is.
Steve Wilson (43:03.852)
Yep.
Jason Elkins (43:07.792)
Or are you gonna spend the next one year planning the next and another year following them through the course only to, you know, feel like you let them down because their expectations were completely. So I guess two part question. Other than just a conversation, would you administer like a questionnaire or personality like a Myers -Briggs or something like that? Do you use any tools like that? Would you see value in it? And number two, the second part,
Steve Wilson (43:33.388)
like that yeah no i do
Jason Elkins (43:37.679)
is I’m sure you’ve had some people that you’re like, yeah, we’re just not the right fit. And I’d love to hear a little bit about that.
Steve Wilson (43:42.572)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, we have a checklist of questions that we’ll go through and a big part of it, as I said, is such an essential part of it and early on is finding out about them, where they’ve been, what they’ve done, why they liked it. I like to focus on things that have gone wrong and why they’ve gone wrong and what they hated about it. What annoys you, what irritates you about traveling or whatever, you know, finding out the interests. Why do you like that?
Do you like this? No, why don’t you like that? And, you know, for example, horse riding, why don’t you like horse riding? because I’m scared of animals or what have you. You know, there’s different things that will come up. It’s revealing. Yeah, exactly. And that’s helping you understand. Yeah, all of that information that you gather, you can help. It’ll help you understand their tipping point, their comfort zone, because most people, when they go away, they want to be challenged.
Jason Elkins (44:26.256)
It’s a lot more revealing, isn’t it, to dig into what they didn’t like or problems they had.
Steve Wilson (44:44.492)
little bit. They want to be, they want something different, you know, they’ve, it’s clearly been a dream, it’s there somewhere for, they’ve finally got the time, they’ve got the budget and it’s, you know, the moment in life to plan this. But so, yeah, we do analyze them a lot.
Jason Elkins (45:04.912)
Well, and you said most of the people are, you know, they want to push themselves. They’ve, this is something they’ve been dreaming about, thinking about. And then I also realized that when the family unit gets involved, because possibly one person in the family has always wanted to do this, really enjoys pushing themselves. And maybe other people in the family are just very agreeable and want them to be happy and.
Steve Wilson (45:17.004)
Yeah compromises.
Steve Wilson (45:25.868)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (45:31.436)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (45:33.552)
It’s so it’s almost like, tell me what did your spouse not like about Cambodia, you know, when you went there, right? Not just.
Steve Wilson (45:38.668)
Absolutely. It’s all of that. Yeah. And the kids as well. What have you done? If you, a lot of the people we do work with our families in the average, the age profile is probably, from late thirties to late fifties as a general rule. And then you’ll get couples who are, you know, may go for a time away, but it may not be a year, but who are, you know, saved up for retirement. but they’ve got that adventurous spirit. So the whole different, criteria, depending on the profile of.
Jason Elkins (45:52.464)
Okay, yeah.
Steve Wilson (46:08.364)
who we’re working with but the families you actually you you really want to speak to every single member of that family and I encourage that and typically we do even the kids you know even bringing them on to to this and they’re all together if some of them will be confident and you can judge who’s going to be happy on the road what sort of things are going to come up so there’s there’s a lot more to it than just those logistics it’s been it helps being a parent trying and doing this themselves.
Jason Elkins (46:36.72)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (46:37.164)
with being able to give some practical advice on that.
Jason Elkins (46:41.936)
I remember my wife and I at the time were managing a small fly fishing scuba diving eco resort. Resort. It was small. It was probably too small to be a resort, but it was about 30 miles off the offshore in Belize. And we’d get a new group of guests every week. And I remember this one lady was with her family and she got off the boat on the dock and I stuck my hand out to introduce myself. And she’s like, I’m, I don’t remember the name. I don’t need to mention the name, but she’s like,
Steve Wilson (46:55.084)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:12.496)
I’m here. I don’t want to be here. This was my husband’s idea and I am going to be miserable this whole week. That’s like, okay, great. This is going to be fun. And I’ll tell you what, by the end of the week there were the hugs going on at the dock and it was, but it was great that she acknowledged that because it gave me something, you know, it gave me something to work with. Okay. I’m not going to spend the whole week trying to guess whether or not she wants to be here.
Steve Wilson (47:16.844)
Thanks.
Steve Wilson (47:32.428)
Yeah, absolutely. I love that one.
Jason Elkins (47:41.264)
She doesn’t want to be here. So what can I do to make it fun for her? What, you know, this is my challenge now. I know what the challenge is. She’s the one we’ve got 20 guests just got off the boat and she’s the one that is my, my goal is to create something for her that she can enjoy it. And it was, it was actually kind of fun. So I was happy she did that.
Steve Wilson (47:48.844)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (47:59.916)
Absolutely. No, I find, well, again, with getting to know every member of that family, you’re bringing in components that’s going to keep each, be it the youngest or the oldest, happy at times. Typically, if you can keep the youngest happy, the oldest, the parents are going to be happy. So there’s a little bit of that to it. But to your point, just then, we’ve had a number of times, this has been not uncommon, it’s happened enough over the years where there’s that turning up at a hotel.
in a place, possibly it’s got dark already. I never, that’s one thing with the planning you were trying to avoid is arriving somewhere in darkness that’s new, especially somewhere quite random. And, you know, if you’ve been on the road for a while, you’ve had a cranky journey, there might have been a delay on the flight, you’ve turned up in a bad state of mind. And no matter what it is, you’re gonna hate it. And we’ve had the messages through, I hate it, I can’t spend three, four nights here, this is awful. And…
There’s no real reason to it. It’s just that probably the person not happy at that very moment. I say, okay, we’ve got to give it a night. You’ve got to stay there tonight. There’s nowhere else to go. It’s this is it. Just leave them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, completely. Yeah. Yeah. absolutely. But the every single time that’s happened the next morning.
Jason Elkins (49:09.168)
Or a cranky kid, a cranky hungry kid that’s like, I don’t like it here. I want to go back to wherever, you know, wherever we were just at, where there was on the beach and I don’t like it here, da da da da da. And then that can make the whole family miserable.
Steve Wilson (49:28.14)
it’s like a click and you know a few hours have passed allegedly breakfast they’ve woken up to see where they are the staff have been wonderful because we’ve been in touch with them and there’s you know you’ve got to put it out and just this is what we need to do and they’re the glowing reports for that and an apology nine times out of ten but i’m sorry how i you know i get it because i’ve been there you know i’ve spent too long in certain countries where i’ve
Jason Elkins (49:29.712)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (49:49.904)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (49:55.82)
I’ve got cranky and I’ve got fed up and I thought, it’s a fool, but it’s just that it’s again, it’s that travel fatigue that hits everyone.
Jason Elkins (50:04.432)
And it’s, it’s interesting. Cause even you and I, well, I won’t speak for you, but I know for me, there’ve been many times I’ve showed up somewhere. I’m like, yeah, I don’t like it here so much, but I’m, but I kind of know that like, I’m hungry. I’m irritable. The, the host didn’t give me good directions on how to get to the, whatever it is. And usually in a day or two, I’m like, I kind of like this place. And I remember there was one spot I stayed in Mexico city and I got there. It was, it really was bad, but I was so like,
Steve Wilson (50:14.532)
Yep.
Steve Wilson (50:20.748)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (50:32.72)
convinced that I was just being too soft. And I was like, okay, this place is bad, but I’m sure that like, I can do this. I was in the infantry. I used to sleep in the mud and dirt holes. And I’m like, how can I not manage this little apartment with, I was sharing the apartment with the lady that owned the place and she’d sit in the living room and just chain smoke the whole, it was horrible. It really was a bad place. But I was like, I’m, I’m tougher than, and I already paid for a month. I was like,
Steve Wilson (50:36.556)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (50:55.148)
you
Jason Elkins (51:00.24)
I was in this, I was like, I can do this, I can do anything. And then finally, after three days, I broke down crying and I was like, why am I trying to torture myself and punish myself and convince myself that, you know, I don’t deserve about it. It was a whole emotional breakdown. That’s the only time that there was actually a place that really was horrible that, you know, and I just didn’t, I didn’t want to admit it.
Steve Wilson (51:17.004)
Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (51:25.164)
You knew that was it. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (51:26.768)
So, and then eventually I left, got my money back from Airbnb, no big deal, but it was an interesting, things come up when you’re traveling that it’s like, Ooh, where did that come from? What is that telling me about myself and my own insecurities or my own whatever? And I, I, it was kind of, yeah.
Steve Wilson (51:31.028)
Thank you.
Steve Wilson (51:36.012)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (51:42.636)
It does. You learn so much about yourself as an individual, plus your family, whoever you’re traveling with, and on top of everything else, it’s huge. And I think you’ve got to listen to yourself when you’re on, especially on these long trips. And again, long can mean different things for different people. But the last epic long trip I did, which was another year out, I was going through Asia, and the last three months of it or so were in India.
And I adore India, like it’s somewhere that I need to go back and get a fix again with India every few years or however long, because it just gets you. But at that particular point, I’d been on the road for a long period of time and I was travel weary again. But the whole point in my mind, I didn’t want to give in because I wanted to go back overland through Mongolia with the Trans -Siberian and the Trans -Mongolian railways.
And again, I’ve been a big advocate for travel over land because of you see so much and I love just staring out and observing, you know, it’d be on a train or road or whatever it might be. But actually I listened to and I thought if I go there, Mongolia had been on the list, wish list for so long and having seen so many countries that had been on that wish list, I didn’t want to go there with tired, frustrated, angry eyes and thought, no.
Jason Elkins (52:48.464)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (53:06.64)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (53:08.396)
just fly home, go save Mongolia for another time. And that was a good decision to know when to, in that particular case, to cut that trip and head home because I was not in the right state of mind. I would have gone to Mongolia and disliked it. It would have been a waste.
Jason Elkins (53:23.76)
That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. Two, two things came out of that. One is just India in general. I, I do not know India. I have not had the opportunity to visit India. I think, I don’t know what it, what it’s like for you in the UK, but I know a lot of Americans that I’ve spoken with that have gone to India that probably just did it wrong or didn’t their expectations were completely wrong. And they’re like, I would never go back. You know, the truth is I hear a lot of negativity.
Steve Wilson (53:47.988)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (53:56.684)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (53:57.072)
around it. But I’ve also worked in the travel business. I’ve talked to people that loved it as well. But so what do you think it is about it in India that people just really get it wrong and they they don’t seem to appreciate it the way you do?
Steve Wilson (54:07.112)
The biggest flag with India is trying to do, for one, it’s enormous India. With, I think now the world’s biggest population, 1 .3 billion people, most of us, depending on which country we’re from, cannot relate to that sheer intensity of everything that goes with it. It can be extreme weathers, it’s just extreme. But so the planning there with a country like India, for me, is even more.
aware of the sort of psychology with it because too much of the big cities which are on that classic trail that will feature on 99 times out of 100 itineraries it’s too much of the same thing you know it’d be too many temples or too many big cities and especially the places where you are so obviously a tourist and they care and they’ll be coming up to you. You need
to balance that out with countryside or mountains or the coast or something that’s different to make it work. And so it’s a challenge because someone’s got two weeks, say, or less even at times, what can you fit in in the country of that size? But you go out there and you’re going to Delhi, you’ll probably see the Taj Mahal. You might tap into Jodhpur Jaipur or Udaipur. There’s no.
They’re all big cities, they’re big, overwhelming and exhausting cities. And they’re wonderful when you can slow it down a bit and put in some little heritage stays with a local family in the middle of nowhere and enjoy that and just a different interaction with the people as opposed to feeling on guard. People will go there and they feel threatened almost or fearful because it’s different.
that’s always a shame but it’s all to do with the planning and someone who’s been there and spent long enough time there will get that what I’m saying and you know the longer you have the easier it becomes to of course slow it down but I think a big part of it as well is and this applies to many countries don’t look at it as a one -time visit if you want to see the south of India Kerala or Tamil Nadu and wherever, Karnataka you want to see the wildlife parks in the middle it doesn’t have to just be
Jason Elkins (56:14.576)
Right.
Steve Wilson (56:29.26)
what’s on what you Google, which will come up on number one. And that’s where specialist operators will know where to take someone and quiz them. You know, you again is understanding the kind what’s right for them. Where have you been in the past? Is India right for you? There’s often talk of Sri Lanka being a stepping stone, you know, get a taste of that. And it’s there’s some truth to that, you know, in terms of culture and feel and what have you. But.
you know, start in the south of India. Don’t just do the classics. It’s so easy to be influenced by what you may read online. But talking to people who’ve been there, tried and tested, had their own challenges and struggles with it, certainly. But a country like India should be a wow. It actually ended up being my honeymoon destination. And I was, we went around the world about 10 times trying to work out where to go. And I just thought, there’s nowhere that can wow you. In my eyes, quite like it. And that’s India.
Jason Elkins (57:16.464)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (57:27.084)
and it was epic.
Jason Elkins (57:29.392)
That’s interesting. Yeah. So now I’m envisioning those, those people I just kind of mentioned, or, you know, they’re looking at the big tour operator that offers the seven nights, you know, eight days classic India and, and, and it’s somebody traveling from the States maybe, and they’ve got, you know, two weeks vacation the whole year and it takes two days to get there. And, you know, so, so they’re stressed and tired when they get there and then they get off and I, and having never been there, I don’t know what I’m talking about, but.
Steve Wilson (57:40.012)
Yeah.
Steve Wilson (57:46.572)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (57:52.236)
It’s tough.
Jason Elkins (57:58.576)
that get off in Delhi and they’re like overwhelmed and they’re not huge Korea fans anyway like the Brits are. So maybe it’s just like, where is Europeans?
Steve Wilson (57:59.34)
No, no. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (58:05.26)
Yeah. And it could be the other half of their couple, you know, one half of the couple had it on the wish list and the other half’s given in and said, yes, okay, we’ll do it. But the dynamics, even before getting there, are wrong for it, you know.
Jason Elkins (58:14.8)
Okay, fine. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (58:19.696)
Yeah. And, and I think, you know, this is, it’s maybe just kind of a generalization. I know, but Europeans are a little closer. They have a little bit familiarity with the culture. They probably see more people from India in UK, more Korea, you know, foods, the foods aren’t quite as different. and also just the way my, my perspective or my, my view of, you know, Europeans is they tend to like to travel. They’re much more comfortable traveling outside of the country in general.
Steve Wilson (58:28.908)
Mm -hmm.
Steve Wilson (58:49.356)
Mm -hmm.
Jason Elkins (58:49.584)
have a little bit more vacation time maybe in general, you know, and, and so it’s like, okay, yeah, I’d like to go to India and, and, you know, it, it just, it, I don’t know, feels different.
Steve Wilson (58:53.388)
I’m, yeah, congenial.
Steve Wilson (59:01.324)
It’s one of those destinations that, you know, I would always advise go to someone who knows it, you know, to help with the planning there and properly specializes in it. It’s again, it’s not just someone who’s been to that little tiny core circuit of Rajasthan, but has been way beyond it because that little core circuit of Rajasthan could be the worst decision. Don’t start there. He’s up to the thoughts and balances, or it could be no interest ever to anyone, you know, you can get tempered out in many parts of the world, many countries, quite.
Jason Elkins (59:30.416)
yeah.
Steve Wilson (59:31.596)
And a part of what we do is being aware of that and bringing in wildlife components, bringing in coastal activities, diving, surfing. There’s incredible places, Lakshadweep Islands, the Andaman Islands, hiking in the Himalaya, the different North territories up there. It’s just epic. So it’s all to do with the planning. But…
I think also in acknowledgement, that’s just not for no countries for everybody. Just like no matter the quality of the hotel is not going to be for everyone. Despite, you know, no matter what it costs, we’re all individuals. So that’s the reality. Exactly. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:00:16.464)
Which is why it’s so important to have that initial conversation that you’re discussing. And I did ask, but I don’t think we got there. I want to hear about people that not names specifically, but those folks that you’ve had conversation with and you’re like, yes, we are clearly not the right fit. Does that happen? What’s that like? And any other tour operators that might be listening to this or people that are thinking about going, I mean, what should people know?
Steve Wilson (01:00:34.284)
Mm.
Steve Wilson (01:00:41.548)
Yeah, I think it’s. It does. Yeah, I think absolutely. And acknowledging that as a business, especially as a small niche business, I’m very aware of that. Not everyone will be the right fit for us as a company. You know, we’re cautious with the planning, but we do like to encourage taking just a little bit out of your comfort zone and especially the destinations we’re talking about. It is going to be pretty different typically to.
home life and that’s what most of the people we work with want when they’ve got that luxury of time with the sabbatical. But I think we’ll know and you know because there’s the human aspect they’re not dealing with a bot or you know it’s just on all by email it’s very there’s a lot of humor in interaction if you’re not connecting with that individual I think you have to just hold your hands up and just say we’re not right.
Has it happened? Not in recent times. Most of the time you find a common ground and you’re constantly digging deeper. Sometimes it’s easier to find that connection, other times it’s more challenging. And if you don’t achieve it, and it’s other factors as well. The sheer cost of going on the road for a year is expensive. We all have seen the things like flights going up in price, but that’s…
typical throughout the entire world and hotels and services privately guided. A lot of the stuff we’re doing is bespoke with, you know, just for those individuals. So there’s a big factor is what the cost of this sort of epic trip.
Jason Elkins (01:02:26.192)
Okay. And then will you, you know, you’ve got some folks there on your team that you work with. Do you find yourselves kind of like, I think this person would be a great fit for Bob or Mary or, or whatever, and helping assign them with the right personality type that’s going to be able to stick with them for a year and a half, two years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Wilson (01:02:36.588)
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Definitely, definitely. You know, you just know, you get a good feeling that this is right for them. And same for which country or which routing the pace equally. You know, I think if someone’s so well -traveled as well, and they’re so used to being completely independent, then I think we have to hold our hands up and say that we’re probably going to be in an irritation almost to it. You’ve traveled too much, you know, you’re almost like one of us. So…
Jason Elkins (01:02:52.94)
sure.
Steve Wilson (01:03:13.452)
being honest and saying that I think you should just here’s a little bit of guidance here’s a rough outline of what you can do but I think you’re going to get the right thing actually what you really want is to be doing this yourself you’re a planner you’ve got that in you so there’ll be those who travel so much
Jason Elkins (01:03:28.592)
Yeah, it’s actually kind of hard to be a planner. It can be difficult to be a planner for a planner type, right? Yeah, if they’ve traveled out on their own, all of a sudden they’re like, who are you to tell me? That can actually create more conflict than when you have somebody like, look, you know, I trust you, help me.
Steve Wilson (01:03:35.948)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Steve Wilson (01:03:43.98)
Absolutely. Completely. My wife, her biggest fear is planning a trip even a weekend away for me. She finds it terrifying to plan a surprise trip knowing that’s the way my brain works.
Jason Elkins (01:03:52.432)
huh.
Interesting.
Jason Elkins (01:04:01.968)
Yeah, yep. Steve, I could chat with you for hours. Just fascinating conversation. And I really have enjoyed this conversation. And before we wrap it up though, I wanna just ask you, what did I forget to ask? What should I have asked? Or what do you think our listeners should know about either you or Lingar Travel before we say goodbye?
Steve Wilson (01:04:26.188)
I think a lot, in those pandemic years, it gave you a lot of time for people to think, what do I want to do? Where’s the career going? You hit a certain point. If you’ve got that in your mind and you want to take this sort of extended trip, no matter how you’re doing it, fully independent, upscale luxury, basic on a budget, my advice is don’t regret not doing that because there’s one thing that doesn’t, you can’t buy that time back.
Do it at a time when you can, physically, financially, whatever. Don’t regret not having a trip because those memories are forever. And yeah, it’s all possible. It’s just it takes that big jump to actually make it happen. But if it’s something you want to do, you should do that.
Jason Elkins (01:05:19.024)
Just do it. Very good words. Wise words, Steve. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to share with us. And we’ll have a link to your website down in the show notes. So anybody that wants to take a look at that and reach out and have a conversation with you, it sounds like that conversation is really good starting point and whether it’s a good fit or not, at least they can hopefully cause them to take some sort of action, get up off the couch and go do something. Not that anybody listening to this podcast is sitting on the couch, but.
Steve Wilson (01:05:27.468)
Thank you, Jason.
Jason Elkins (01:05:49.04)
It could be. Steve, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate coming on the show.
Steve Wilson (01:05:53.516)
Thank you, Jason.
Follow 205+ Leaders and the Stories That Shape the Adventure Travel World on the Big World Made Small Podcast
Access the stories here, or on your favorite platform; wherever you prefer.
Get Expert Interviews Delivered Directly to Your Inbox
Join the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast community and we’ll send you new podcast episodes weekly, and make sure you hear about exclusive and relevant opportunities that you won’t find elsewhere.