Guest Bio
Vaibhav Kala is the founder and director of Aquaterra Adventures, one of India’s premier adventure travel companies established in 1995. With a passion for exploring uncharted territories, Vaibhav has been instrumental in opening up remote Himalayan valleys to adventure tourism and pioneering river expeditions across India. His leadership has positioned Aquaterra Adventures as a leader in providing unique and safe adventure experiences.
Show Summary
In this episode, Vaibhav Kala shares his journey from conceiving the idea of Aquaterra Adventures during a mountain climb in Ladakh to establishing it as a renowned adventure travel company. He discusses the challenges of introducing adventure tourism in unexplored regions, the importance of sustainable practices, and his vision for the future of adventure travel in India. Vaibhav also reflects on his personal experiences guiding expeditions on some of the world’s most challenging rivers and mountains.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Innovation in Adventure Tourism: Pioneering new routes and experiences can set a company apart in the industry.
- ✓ Sustainable Practices: Responsible tourism is essential for preserving natural environments and supporting local communities.
- ✓ Leadership and Vision: Clear goals and adaptability are crucial in navigating the evolving landscape of adventure travel.
- ✓ Safety and Quality: Maintaining high standards ensures memorable and secure experiences for travelers.
- ✓ Personal Passion: A genuine love for exploration fuels innovation and inspires others in the field.
What You’ll Find on Aquaterra Adventures’ Platform
- ✓ River Rafting Expeditions: Thrilling journeys on India’s most exciting rivers, including the Siang and Brahmaputra.
- ✓ Trekking Adventures: Guided treks through remote Himalayan regions, offering breathtaking landscapes and cultural insights.
- ✓ Mountaineering Expeditions: Opportunities to summit challenging peaks with experienced guides.
- ✓ Customized Itineraries: Tailored adventure experiences to suit individual preferences and skill levels.
- ✓ Safety and Training Courses: Programs designed to equip adventurers with essential skills for safe exploration.
👉 Visit Aquaterra Adventures’ Official Website to explore their offerings and learn more about Vaibhav Kala’s contributions to adventure tourism in India.
Learn more about Aquaterra Adventures – India and connect with Vaibhav at:
https://aquaterra.in/
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:04.134)
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast. So happy to have all of you here, but super excited to have Vaibhav Kala here with us today. He’s from Aquaterra Adventures in India, and he’s going to share a little bit about kind of his life, his story, his business, his country, his home, all that good stuff, all in an attempt to help make the big world feel just a little bit smaller. So Vaibhav, so happy to have you here. Grateful, Jason. Happy to chat. Look forward to this.
Yeah, we had a conversation here probably a week or two ago. And it was just really intriguing. You operate in a place that I’m not that familiar with. Actually, a lot of the interviews I’ve been doing lately are places that I’m not that familiar with, which is no accident, because I’m also wanting to learn more about these places and the world and the people in it. So super excited to chat with you. The Himalayas are an area that have captured the imagination of many, many people.
whether they’ve been there or not. So happy to have you here. And I wanna kind of start with who you are as a person. How did you get it? You know, the questions you hear when you’re sitting around the campfire with a bunch of guests or at the lodge, it’s that, you know, how did you get into this? What was going on that got you into tourism? Right, so my dad was in the forces and you know, we used to get transferred every year, every year or two.
into small contortments, big wide open spaces, obstacle courses, horse riding, squash swimming, hiking. So it was it was always something that I enjoyed a lot and then through school and college the hiking the structured hiking and climbing started. We had a very active hiking club in college in Delhi University and we used to go climbing big mountain climbing you know 6 000 meters
Jason Elkins (02:02.014)
I realized this is what really drives me. And so yeah, I trained as a river guide. I had the mountain experience, but river running was just about starting in the country. And by fall of 1992, I was guiding mountain and river trips. And yeah, it was young and foolish, an idea probably ahead of its time. It could have gone horribly wrong.
There was no market in the country. But yeah, I mean, here we are 32 years later. Were your parents supportive? Because that’s something that comes up quite often is I know parents, you know, they come from maybe the structure of a military, you know, career or that type of thing. And the idea of, you know, you’re gonna go be a what you’re gonna be a river rafting guide. What is that, you know, how supportive were they?
So exactly, they were they were worried, but they put on a brave front and they were in seeing, you know, what is what is this that you’re doing? I mean, putting people on a rubber boat and, you know, running them down the Ganges. So they didn’t they didn’t get it. But but I have to, I have to say they did not, like put any pressure at all. They were they were supportive. Yes. Okay, very cool. Is that is that typical of Indian parents being supportive when their son wants to go off and do something totally different?
No, this was really random. I mean, what I was doing was, like I said, it could have gone horribly wrong. I mean, there was just no market in India then. It was only expats and trickle of inbound travelers. And really, so most Indian parents would have certainly objected to this thought or passed it off as a passing sort of illusion. He’ll get over it. Give me your two and I’ll absolutely want to.
back to school and be a doctor or lawyer or something respectable and get a real job. Now in hindsight, because I’ve had a conversation with you, I’ve seen your bio, I’m aware of some of the stuff you’ve been doing. So it’s easy for me right now at this time in 2023 to look at it and say, man, you got in at just the right time. You were like, you just, it was like perfect meant to be. It might not have felt like that at the time, but would you agree that you kind of just
Jason Elkins (04:21.462)
fell into it at the right time? Yes, to be fair in hindsight, to the benefit of that, I think it was the right place, right time, because the industry did grow there. You had that first-mover advantage. A lot of things were unexplored. So I think the potential for doing new things was way greater than it is now. And yeah, the industry was not congested at all. And I think we did get the benefit of first-mover advantage.
You know, and yeah, it would have been far tougher if, you know, if I was born maybe 25 years later and tried to do this. So I think, yeah, it was a struggle for sure because of no market, et cetera. But yeah, I think it was the right time. Yeah. Well, that’s the thing. Once there is a big market, then it’s you’re kind of late, late to the game. And you know, they talk about
people being experts after they’ve done 10,000 hours of something like the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and those guys, they’ve looked at it and said, well, if those guys would have been born two years later, they would not, Microsoft would not be what it is. Apple would not be what it is. So it’s pretty fascinating. And I’m also curious because like, so there’s mountain climbing, there’s the mountain part and then there’s the rafting or the river descents.
Is that just a natural fit or is that a little different? Help me kind of understand why those two things and how do those work together? Yeah, so I think there is an overlap of customers. I think we’ve had a lot of people intrigued by running rivers multi-day. So our speciality is both multi-day hikes, multi-day river trips. And I think we were lucky to expose our trekking guests into a different kind of adventure on rivers.
and because it’s challenging, there is certainly adrenaline and that feeling of exploration because there’s just a tight unit unlike a trek where there’ll be like a ton of people, horses and porters and guides and other groups. So river running really can get you out into complete wilderness and with nobody but just the boats that you’re on.
Jason Elkins (06:44.322)
So I think it does appeal to that completely exploratory desire or aspiration to go into someplace really wild. It need not be big water. It could be like a wilderness trip. But the fact that you’re self-contained and traveling solo as a group, as a unit. And so I think there was a fair bit of overlap.
Hikers generally are the most serious clientele. They like to spend that seven, eight hours with themselves, walking, challenging themselves. River runners are a little more relaxed. But I think that there is certainly an overlap. And also, it I think appeals to a larger demography. You can run a wider set of guests. Because ability-wise, I think it’s more conducive for a wider range.
of abilities and then of course we have the third bit the hospitality. We have an activity lodge and you know a couple of camps that we run. So I think it’s a good mix rather than being just a single activity specialist you know so we had a bit of a hybrid company that can move guests between you know lodge to river running to trekking so it’s
it I think provides for a good circulation of experiences for our guests. Sure. And I’m curious because, you know, I have a lot of conversations with folks that they’re really passionate about one particular part of their business. So for example, I’ll use the example of Ecuador. An outfitter here may be super passionate about the Amazon, which is a small part of Ecuador. The majority of their clients do not go to the Amazon.
but the majority of clients are going maybe to the Balapagos or Quito or something like that. And I’ve heard people say, well, this is what I’m really passionate about, but this is the part that pays the bills. And sometimes people are just like, they’re just passionate, excited about all of it. So I’m gonna just ask you, if you’re willing to share, do you have strong emotional feelings about river, you know, when the rivers…
Jason Elkins (09:01.898)
floating rivers, mountain climbing, anything else or is it just kind of the same for you? So like I said, I was doing a lot of hiking and climbing to school and college. And when I started river guiding, it just seemed like there was a lot to be explored even in terms of commercial river running. And we opened a lot of big river trips in the Himalayas. So I think at that stage of life in my 20s and 30s, it was very exciting going.
going into places which hadn’t been opened, which hadn’t been run for a while. So that really spurred me on and we opened a lot of new trips through my 30s. And then I think now I quite enjoy the hiking because I’ve done that whole adrenaline charged exercise and the trips are in place and they go sometimes, lots of times without me.
And I enjoy the hikes, the quiet, the walking to my, you know, with myself or those six to eight hours, you know, conversations without the stress of a big class for rapid. And I still ride a lot of our big trips, but, but I think I’ve started enjoying hiking more because it just gives me that time with myself on the trail, which is never possible on a river trip. Yeah. Cause you’re literally two feet from everybody in the boat, right?
Yeah, exactly. I think that’s where it’s changed. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that completely. What do you think? I mean, do you get a lot of, where do your typical clients come from? What kind of mix are you seeing? So we see. Both for the hiking and for the river. So the hiking, it’s mostly people in their 40s, 50s, 60s.
seasoned sort of guests. The river running is anything from 30s, the multi days, again, 30s onwards to the 60s. A large part of our guests are free individual travelers, signing up on our dated departures. They could be from the US, Canada, UK, Europe, mainly South Asia. We’re trying to develop that market because it’s so close to us.
Jason Elkins (11:20.914)
And it’s a growing market in South Asia. It’s sitting on 750 million people between 15 and 24. So over the next 10 years, this part of the world is gonna see a lot of people who enjoy this. And- Right. Yeah, absolutely. And where do you see, so some things that I’m sure you’ve seen over the years, when you first got into this, there weren’t really people doing, or very few people doing.
you’re doing. So you’ve seen a lot of changes over the years. Some of them I’m sure for the positive and some of them you kind of maybe just roll your eyes about or there’s concerns about you know just things you know like the environment over tourism. So what are the what are a few things that you’ve kind of seen change over the years that maybe someone that hasn’t been in it like you have wouldn’t even wouldn’t even guess that it’s happened?
Yes, so I think we saw the transition, Jason, from having to drive 140 kilometers to make a single phone call, and there being no air connectivity in this part of the world, to having seen those two revolutions, the technology revolution and the aviation revolution coming into India and made travel, travel became a lot easier. It was very, very difficult. Infrastructure became better.
We’ve seen the roads get better, expressways come in, you know, this whole economic abilities have changed. You know, more people have cars, are willing to travel, drive out. Remotor parts of the country are better connected now. So it’s made business a lot easier. It’s made operations better, more efficient.
Jason Elkins (13:15.586)
The troubling part of it is the industry has grown to an extent where now we need to think about how the very USP that draws people into the Indian Himalaya, that needs to be protected. So that is the worrying part. So I do work with the industry to interface with government to help address these issues because you can’t destroy that USP because of overtourism.
because then you’re just killing the whole product. So that is, I think, top of mind. Rising accident rates are worrying. We’re dealing with the government of India to set up model laws for adventure tourism, which are non-existent, licensing and registering of operations. So those things are on the move. So I think that might get a lot better over the next year or two.
and yeah because the Indian Himalayas is massive you know it’s 3000 kilometers more than 72 percent of the entire Himalayas lie in India but that connection is not there because it’s never been projected in that manner. I mean most people connect with India you know with the Taj Mahal or the forts and palaces and snake charmers so that perception has to change soon. Yeah.
Well, I wonder because you talked about how it’s gotten logistically easier to do business. And then you mentioned things like safety and accidents, because presumably, if it’s easier for you to get some clients online, take them out, put them into a river in a boat with a guide, it’s also easier for somebody that maybe hasn’t spent 20, 30 years doing it.
And they’ve just like, hey, I bought a boat. I got a guy who says he knows how to row. So there we go. It’s so that I can see where that would be the case. And is that the hope then with more regulation, more government involvement is to try and improve the training and licensing and stuff like that? Is that kind of what you were saying, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. We’ve been drumming this with the government for the last two to three years and there’s been finally a reaction.
Jason Elkins (15:38.31)
India set up a national board for adventure tourism, and they’re discussing standards and the model or draft is already through. So, anyone who wants to operate in India will need to be registered, licensed, and will be subject of the law that will be passed, hopefully sooner than later. Was there something, because oftentimes when a government all of the sudden,
expresses an interest in increasing safety in something tourism related or aviation related or any of those things. Oftentimes it’s because something happened that precipitated that or are there scenarios where those in the industry know that something needs to be done. And unfortunately, if something bad has to happen in order for the for the, you know, the word to get out, oh, my gosh, you know, like a whole raft full of
foreign tourists goes missing or something horrible. So was there anything that precipitated that or was it just the constant work of folks like yourself to get them to see the way? There was a combination. There was no single event, but there were multiple events which could have been avoided, accidents that could have been avoided, should have been avoided plus industry efforts in light because we saw it as a threat.
you know, rising accident rates and unregistered licenses. So we’ve been talking about this and alongside these events have been happening which supported our whole, you know, co-op.
Jason Elkins (17:18.646)
Hi, Paul, I’ve lost you. Can you hear me?
Jason Elkins (17:27.506)
Jason, are you there? OK, I can hear you now. So I lost you there for just a second. So I made a noise and I’ll go back and I’ll edit that out later. But yeah, we’re just kind of talking about how, you know, let me just start. We’ll just start here. OK, OK. So you were explaining how the government, the operators, and stuff were working together. Maybe a few things kind of happened.
along the way to kind of highlight the need for this, you know, these regulation changes and stuff like that, right?
Jason Elkins (18:08.366)
All right, we got all that worked out. You can hear me okay? I’m sorry Jason, I think I dropped off. Do you need to do it again? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can, I can. I don’t know why I dropped off. Okay, it sounds good right now. Yep, so. You want me to go back and. Yeah, we’ll just try and pick it up somehow and I’ll figure out how to edit it together or I’ll just say we had a glitch. Okay. So.
Bye, Bob. You were saying, I think we lost the connection. We talk about how amazing technology is, and sometimes there’s reality there. So anyway, you were discussing just the need for regulations, changes to make the sport and the industry safer there in the Himalayas. And was there anything you wanted to add to that?
No, so I think it’s finally been established that for a good reputation as a destination for adventurism, and the government is very keen that gets established globally, you need to have operators that are registered, licensed, and a very low accident record. You can never eliminate it completely, but you need to keep it as low down with all good practices and standards in place. So that bit has finally
have been settled. So it’s meant that a lot of education has had to be imparted about the importance of all this. But I think we are there. We are in a good place and it’s just a matter of time with the implementation of those standards and the draft laws and we should be in a far better place for the future. Great. Well, you’ve been so close to that. You know more about that stuff than the average person for sure. So anybody listening to this?
What’s the best advice you can give to them when it comes to, you know, they’re getting ready to go somewhere, they’re looking for an operator, they don’t have a clue if the government there has rules, regulations. Most people are, you know, basing decisions on what they see on maybe TripAdvice or something like that. If a website says we’re licensed and fully insured, okay, fine, maybe. But if it doesn’t say that, most people don’t notice it either.
Jason Elkins (20:27.734)
So what’s your advice to people that are thinking about going on a trip, especially something like, you know, hiking in the mountains, floating down rivers, wingsuiting in Switzerland, whatever it is they’re doing. What’s, what’s your advice? So, uh, I’ve seen mature travelers approach a decision, you know, an operator decision based on not what is being provided, but, you know, by the pedigree of somebody who will.
get you out when the chips are down. You know, that’s really what you need in an operator. Will this person, this company get me out, you know, no holds barred, no costs spared if something happens to me, if I need to get out of this place, if I’m injured, if I’m very sick, you know, will they still take care of me? And I think that decision is very critical. And I think people want to speak to
you know, the people who will be taking them down, so speak to your guides, speak to the outfit, ask the right questions, you know, and that I think is really important, making decisions on who to go with, because it’s not really cost-based pricing. You’ve got to look at what value you’re getting, and often, you know, companies that have the experience do have value-based pricing. They have…
They have better gear, they have better backups, they have better logistics, they have more experienced staff. So you’re getting better cooked food, more hygienically prepared food to better toilet stations, to more experienced guides who are current on their wilderness first aid. They know the trails, they know how to get you out if you’re in trouble. They can figure out weather patterns, they can tell if it’s safe to go on or to retreat.
So that often makes the difference between a trip that can go south or not. No, it’s a really good point because one of the things with technology, it’s become so easy to book reserves, so many different things that it comes down to, if you’ve got an app on your phone and you wanna book a hotel room, how many people just kind of like, okay, it’s three stars and I’m gonna take the cheapest one that’s three stars.
Jason Elkins (22:40.542)
You know, it’s so price driven. If you’re booking flights, it’s the cheapest one. People kind of have an idea that tourism and travel is a commodity and it’s all the same. If I’m gonna go on a cruise, I’m gonna find the cheapest cruise. If I’m gonna go stay at a hotel, I’m gonna find the cheapest hotel that as long as they have decent reviews. But when they’re starting to look at something that’s outside of their familiarity, you gotta be careful because you can’t compare
You know, an Himalayan trip with someone like yourself to another Himalayan trip just based on price, there’s so many more variables. I had a similar experience. I had a hot air balloon ride business. And most people, very few people ever go on a hot air balloon ride more than once. It’s a once in a lifetime thing. So they’ve never been on a balloon and they’re in an area, they see balloons in the sky, they go online and they say, oh, well, okay, how much is a balloon flight?
Well, there’s some operators are selling a balloon flight for a hundred dollars and other operators are selling a balloon flight. It’s a private charter for $900. And it’s like, well, I’ve never been on a balloon flight but I booked a flight to get to Phoenix. So I know how to book flights, flights. I always pick the cheapest flight. And then they go have an experience and they don’t even know, you know, it’s, they don’t know. So I think it is important if you’re booking something that you really aren’t that familiar with, don’t just assume.
that it’s like booking a hotel or booking flights. So that’s super. Exactly. You’d never know. You’d never know till you, you know, if you’re going with somebody you think that you benchmark it as that is the standard experience and you might never return again if you had a bad one. And so I think you won’t even know. And settling guest expectations now because…
The sort of guests that used to come, say, in the 90s or the early 2000s was very different from guests who travel now because, you know, those three decades have churned out an entirely new generation of adventure travelers who are maybe not as hardy, they’re not as experienced, they haven’t done that much, but social media has driven that aspiration. You know, and that is the Instagram, the Instagram tourist. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (24:56.97)
So there’s a lot to do. I mean, we have to work harder to settle expectations, to establish them, you know? And so we’re doing a lot of Zoom calls just to sort that out so that there’s no trouble on the trail or the river because, you know, they’ve been told everything, every aspect of it is covered. So one didn’t need to do that, say, 20 years ago, because everybody who would come then were hardy travelers. They knew, I’ve got to have three liters of water by 3 p.m.
or I will not be able to do this. You know, to put on sunscreen, I’m going to get burned. You know, they knew what to carry, how to carry it, how to organize themselves. That is not true for a lot of guests now who are doing their, you know, their first few forays into big wilderness zones. They want to do it, they have the time, they have the money, but they haven’t done it before. So it’s become more important to set expectations prior.
Right. And I heard you say you do Zoom calls. So like if you have a group coming together, will you all jump into a Zoom call and at some point before they come, that’s wonderful. So we’re doing that a lot and it helps them prepare better. And that means less trouble for the guides on the trip, because everything’s been communicated, how to carry, what to carry, what to expect. And so yeah, that’s really helped us. That is…
It’s very cool. Do you, people that don’t work in the business maybe they travel and they go visit places. They don’t realize how much is involved. We talked about logistics and you said it’s gotten easier but I know that doesn’t mean it’s easy. And sometimes when people show up in camp and all they’ve got a tent and they’ve got food. And it’s like, wow, this is magic. What would you like your clients
to know, not like, ah, we work so hard for you, you guys don’t appreciate it, but do you have a story or two or like something that you’d wanna share with them so they can kinda maybe just fully appreciate how much work goes into keeping them safe and sharing a good experience with them. And again, I know you’re not complaining about it cause you’re passionate about it, but what is it you think people don’t realize is going on behind the scenes sometimes?
Jason Elkins (27:19.414)
So I think I’ll give an anecdotal experience. Last year I was leading a trip in Kashmir and it was a group of CEOs. It was a high powered ship in a lovely area. And of course there was an event that happened. One of them fell and dislocated their elbow. And we were lucky that we managed to set it right back and evacuate him the next day. He was on a flight and you know.
got complete care. But what sunk in then over the rest of that, that event was a catalyst to the rest of them realizing, you know, that what went behind to do it, you know, the experience of guides who could put that elbow back, you know, a team that could evacuate, which meant lessening the crew on ground because two guides had to go down and make sure that it was on a
Jason Elkins (28:19.67)
And the trip continued, as per schedule. So that built-in backup, the care that goes into, even providing clean drinking water, what kind of filtration systems you have, do you have proper first aid? A lot of our remote trips go with AEDs and stretchers because things happen in the mountains of you, you have to be prepared. And so I think a lot of the rest of the trip was
was that realization of then it started noticing everything how laborious, you know, it is the crews going ahead they pack up camp they race ahead of you They set up camp. They’ve got the kitchen going the teas on the table So the little things I think started to sink in you know about how operations are hard And and laborious, you know, it’s everything has to be done. There’s no mechanization on a on an adventure travel
ship. Everything is done by guides and crew on it. And I get it. It can be, you know, when you’ve got somebody that’s there and they worked their butt off to get there, to get the resources, the time off, whatever, to go there and they’re in, you know, I’m going to say vacation mode. And sometimes when you’re in vacation mode, you think everybody around you is in vacation mode. And then, you know, you’re just having these great conversations with the guides and the guides, I’m sure enjoy the conversations.
But then like, you know, after you have that last sip of whiskey and last puff on your cigar and, you know, crawl off to your tent at the end of the night, they still have to clean stuff, get stuff ready for the next day. And I suspect that a lot of, uh, a lot of the clients that you’ve had, if they’ve worked as, as guides before, or if you’re working with industry folks come and it’s like, I’m always blown away. It’s the first thing I noticed when I go on a trip with an operator.
is just like, I’m looking at the logistics because I know how much of a challenge it can be. But it sure feels great when it’s done. And actually you kind of don’t want the clients to know how much work is involved in a sense, right? You kind of like, yeah, you don’t want them to be, you know, focused on how hard you’re working. Exactly. So anyway, very, very cool. So what do you guys have? What’s exciting on the horizon? I know you’re working on
Jason Elkins (30:42.046)
project that you’ve done for a while. It’s kind of a competitive thing that brings groups and families together. We discussed it briefly last time we spoke and if I recall right, it’s coming up here fairly soon. You want to tell us a little bit about that or anything else that’s exciting that’s coming up? Yeah, sure. So we started the Himalayan Adventure Challenge in 2013. There was a massive flood in Kedarnath, one of the shrines up on the valley of the Ganges.
And for six months, nobody was traveling to the hills because all social media and television showed were buildings falling, you know, temples going into rivers, et cetera. And so we set up this challenge that year just to make it a fun family event. It had three different categories. One is the zealot, which is a mountain bike, a hike and paddle race.
And then there’s an open category, which is 30 kilometer, 16K hike and 14K raft race. And then a family challenge, you know, which is 5K on the river and 5K dash back. So that got a really good response. And we’ve run it ever since. Every year it happens in the third week of December. We plan to take it across different valleys in time.
and we’re starting to do one with schools as well. We have one coming up in three weeks. So hopefully that format, it’s a great introduction to people. It’s a safe, cocooned experience over a weekend and you can do it with your partner, your spouse, your kids, because there are three different categories. So we get like…
you know, family and the dad or the mom will probably be doing the zealot, the longest one and someone doing the open and the join the kids to do the, the family challenge. So it’s, it’s very festive. It’s, and I think it’s a, it’s a great force multiplier for us. People get their first sniff at outdoor adventure and then we’re like, Hey, but we’ve got so much more happening. Uh, so yeah, it drives people to do, uh, do, uh, things. I think we’re developing adventure travelers for the future. No, absolutely. And,
Jason Elkins (32:53.61)
Sure, operators probably. I’m envisioning, and maybe you’ve got stories like that, I’m envisioning a young person coming with their family to do something like that. And next year they’re coming back again and then eventually they’re coming back as interns or volunteers or whatever. And then a few years later, they’re maybe one of your guides. Do you have some stories of people that started out as clients that then turned into team members or anything like that?
Yeah, so we have an example right here. We have Tanya Tali who’s running our lodge at Atali and she I remember about 20 years ago had done a Kali trip with us and then a Zanskar later and then we weren’t in touch. She was traveling and we had an opening at our activity lodge where we have a 12 hour activity schedule. It’s very exciting and she’s now the hostess here. Yeah. She’s come back. Yeah. So that’s quite cool.
That is so cool to see that. I remember experiences with that in Montana, people come and go fishing with us. As a fly fishing, they’d come fishing with us. And then a couple of summers later, two, three years later, they’re working in the shop or they’re, you know, they talk to their parents into buying them a drift boat and they’re out on the river learning. And it’s just great to see that kind of can continue on through. And it’s really.
It’s worked the other way as well. We’ve had interns, you know, who worked with us and they’ve gone and, you know, someone’s become a pilot and they’ve come back on a hike years later. So some of us, yeah. So that’s, that’s really exciting. Bring their families and that type of thing. Yeah. I’ve seen that as well. So, yeah, it’s, it’s great to have that happen. That is super cool. What would you say, um, would you kind of, I don’t know, philosophy or what’s the
What are your feelings about tourism in general? What makes it special for you? I mean, I know it’s a business, you’ve given back to the community, you’ve seen a lot of things happen, but what is really the draw for you underneath all that? I think supporting local population, just giving back to the areas, like 90%, 95% of our work is, everything goes back into the areas we operate.
Jason Elkins (35:12.638)
a large part of that tourism dollar can actually go back into the remote areas that we operate in. And that’s such a powerful thing. I mean, adventure tourism can be such a change maker to say, and our team, we’re the largest team, 70, 75 people, 99% is from the Indian Himalaya. And just supporting that is itself.
Yeah, I’m very happy. It makes me happy, makes me proud that, you know, our organization does that and we hire local, we buy local, we make sure, you know, everything goes back to people from the areas that we work in. And that I think is so important, gives me pleasure. And of course, you know, the fact that one enjoys it only adds to it. And you’re constantly thinking of, you know, new.
new trips, new areas, new regions, new people to work with because the industry has been changing. So yeah, that is what really still drives me. That is very cool because a lot of this stuff is about the humans, right? The mountains are beautiful, but without the humans involved, both the humans that come visit, the humans that move the camps, the humans that…
that live in the community. Adventure tourism without human connection is like, I personally can’t get my head around it. I mean, are there things you could go out and do on your own? Probably. I personally just, I wouldn’t enjoy it as much. I mean, I’ve seen some amazing places, but without the people that were there, man, who am I sharing this with? So I get that completely. So.
All right, well, tell me about your business. Is this, do you work directly with people? Like if somebody is listening to this and wants to book a trip with you, can they do that directly? Do they need to go through their travel agent, another tour operator? You know, a couple of the folks I’ve interviewed, we’ve discussed kind of destination management companies as opposed to direct to consumers. So what does your business model look like and how can people get in touch with you?
Jason Elkins (37:28.602)
So Jason, it’s B2C and it’s B2B. We work with a lot of our partners overseas. We also have a lot of our fixed departures, get a lot of direct business. People can find us on our website and connect and join trips. We do a lot of customization. So it’s both ways. We white label a lot of trips, we customize a lot and people can get in touch with us directly or through the agent. Okay.
Wonderful. And what’s the average length of trip? I know that there’s a lot of variables, but like if somebody’s listening to this thinking, oh, maybe we should go to the Himalayas. Is this a week long trip? Is this two weeks, a month? What does it typically look like? So our lodge based trips are typically between three to six days, you know, where you can do adventures, yoga, meditation. We’re in the Valley of the Ganga near Rishikesh, the home of yoga.
in the world. And our tracks could be anything from seven to 12 days, depending on the altitude and the degree of difficulty and remote river expeditions up to 10 to 12 days. Okay. And on the remote river expeditions and the tracking, are you able to accommodate, I guess I would say teenagers, what’s the youngest you can accommodate on those typically?
So 14 on the river trips and on treks ability based. We’ve had like, we had a couple of six year olds on a hike a couple of months in the summer. Yeah, with their parents. So again, ability driven on treks, but minimum age of 14 on anything that is white water. Okay. And which months are we generally shooting for?
So India has a very unique advantage over a lot of other places because we have the trans Himalayan range. So we can actually operate 12 months of the year because in the middle, in the peak monsoon months of late June till mid September, we are operating in the trans Himalayan region of Ladakh and Spiti and Kashmir. So there’s no rainfall there. There’s a rain shadow areas. And so we move base, we move operations.
Jason Elkins (39:47.022)
And so you can actually ostensibly check around the year in India and you can run rivers around the year. So it’s adventures year round in the Indian Himalaya. Very cool. Well, I’m happy to ask you that question because I was not aware of that. So I guess somebody doesn’t need to decide when we’re going. It’s just, okay, you’ve got some time. They can just reach out and say, hey, I’ve got vacation this month. What should we do? And you’ve got some great people on your team, I know. And you guys are…
have a great reputation. I’ve spoken with several people that have mentioned your operation and in very high regard. So I really am honored to have you here today. Is there anything else that you want to share? Anything that we missed that people need to hear before we go? Well, I mean, the only messages, you know, travel safe, travel well, and, you know, set your expectations because, you know, experiences make memories and memories make experiences. So yeah, know what you’re doing, know who you’re going with and be safe.
Very good. Words of wisdom. I look forward to meeting you in the Himalayas or some, I wanna meet, I’m selfish. I wanna meet you in the Himalayas, but if we have an opportunity to meet somewhere else, that’s fine too. But India is very high on my list. So I look forward to meeting you in person sometime soon. So thank you so much, Vaipa and Kala for coming on the show and helping us make this big world feel just a bit smaller. Appreciate you. Thank you. Namaste.
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