Thanks for visiting from LinkedIn. Most sites, including this one, may not display properly inside the LinkedIn app. For the best experience, tap the three dots in the top right corner of your screen and choose “Open in Browser.” ~ Jason | Big World Made Small

Episode #183: William Blair

Manager

The Best of the Wild LLC

Episode #183: William Blair
Video Episode
No Ad Breaks
Play Clip
Full Episode

Guest Bio

William “Will” Blair is the manager of Best of the Wild, a pioneering explorer, conservation-minded fly-fishing guide, and destination developer whose career has been shaped by remote rivers, wild fisheries, and a deep respect for places few travelers ever reach. Through his work with Best of the Wild and Best of Kamchatka, Will has spent decades helping anglers experience some of the world’s most extraordinary wilderness destinations, from Russia’s Kamchatka Peninsula to the southern Bahamas and the Amazon Basin.

Will is best known for his long history in Kamchatka, a volcanic peninsula in Russia’s Far East where unroaded wilderness, native rainbow trout, Pacific salmon, brown bears, and active volcanoes define the landscape. After first being drawn to Kamchatka through the fly-fishing world in the 1990s, he went on to help establish and manage programs on legendary waters such as the Ozernaya and Two Yurt rivers, as well as flyout programs based from Two Yurt Lake. His approach has always combined adventure with stewardship, including catch-and-release practices, careful access, and a long-term commitment to protecting fragile wild fisheries.

Will’s work eventually expanded beyond Russia to the Jumento Cays and Ragged Island chain in the southern Bahamas, where he helped create access to one of the Caribbean’s most remote flats fisheries. In Brazil, his travels and guiding connections opened another chapter among Amazonian river systems known for species such as peacock bass, arowana, and pacu. Across every destination, Will’s work is grounded in immersion, strong local partnerships, and the belief that the world’s last wild places are worth experiencing with humility, patience, and care.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Will Blair about a life spent following fish into some of the most remote corners of the planet. Will shares how a childhood shaped by boats, rivers, lakes, and curiosity eventually led him from the Midwest to Alaska, and then to the far reaches of Kamchatka, where he found a wilderness fishery unlike anything he had experienced before.

The conversation explores what makes Kamchatka so unique, from its active volcanoes and vast salmon runs to its native rainbow trout, brown bears, helicopters, hot springs, and deep sense of solitude. Will explains how travel to the region has changed over the years, why misconceptions about Russia have affected demand, and what it means to guide in a place where anglers may fish rivers that have seen little or no pressure for years.

Jason and Will also talk about the realities of building adventure travel programs in wild places, including logistics, aviation, food, cultural relationships, and the importance of earning trust with local partners. Will’s stories offer a rare look at what it takes to create meaningful wilderness experiences while honoring the people, landscapes, and fisheries that make those journeys possible.

Key Takeaways

  • ✓ Kamchatka is one of the world’s great wilderness destinations, known for volcanoes, bears, salmon, native rainbow trout, and vast unroaded landscapes.
  • ✓ Will Blair’s career began with a lifelong love of fishing and boating, eventually leading him into guiding in Alaska and then Russia’s Far East.
  • ✓ Best of the Wild reflects Will’s hands-on approach to travel, where he is directly involved in the places, people, and programs he represents.
  • ✓ Remote fly-fishing programs require far more than selling trips; they depend on logistics, local relationships, aviation, timing, and trust.
  • ✓ Kamchatka’s helicopter-access fisheries allow anglers to reach rivers and trout waters that would be nearly impossible to access otherwise.
  • ✓ Reduced travel demand has created rare opportunities for small groups to experience lightly pressured fisheries in extraordinary settings.
  • ✓ Will’s partnerships in Kamchatka have lasted for decades, showing the value of patience, consistency, and mutual respect across cultures.
  • ✓ Conservation-minded angling practices, including catch-and-release and careful destination development, have been central to Will’s work.
  • ✓ Adventure travel often depends on the people behind the scenes, from guides and pilots to cooks, mechanics, managers, and local hosts.
  • ✓ Will’s work in Kamchatka, the Bahamas, and Brazil shows how fishing can become a pathway to deeper exploration, cultural connection, and stewardship.

What You’ll Find on Best of the Wild

  • Remote fly-fishing adventures in Kamchatka, the Bahamas, Brazil, and other wild destinations
  • Hands-on destination knowledge from a guide and operator with decades of field experience
  • Small-group wilderness fishing programs built around solitude, quality, and immersion
  • Access to unique fisheries for rainbow trout, bonefish, permit, barracuda, peacock bass, and more
  • Travel experiences shaped by long-standing local partnerships and conservation-minded practices
  • Detailed insight into logistics, timing, fisheries, and what to expect in remote adventure settings

Learn more about The Best of the Wild LLC and connect with William at:

https://thebestofthewild.com/

Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Guest support helps make the episode possible, but it does not determine who is featured. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.

Guest access: enter your password to unlock your resources.

Guest & Partner Resources (Private)

Thank you William, for being a Expedition Partner with us.

We’d love to have you join us at the next level and get even more out of your appearance on the Big World Made Small Podcast.

Below you will find access to tools to help you promote your episode and get the most from your partnership benefits. This section is only visible when you use the link we sent, or by entering the password BWMS8873. Do not share the email we sent, or the password, unless you want the person to access the following resources.

Follow, Rate, or Provide a Testimonial

Please use this tracking link to share with your audience:
https://bigworldmadesmall.com/guest/william-blair/?ref=guest8873

Cover Art

This is available to all podcast guests.

Episode #183: William Blair
Video Episode
No Ad Breaks
Play Clip
Full Episode

Download the file to use on your website or social media posts.

Buzzsprout Audio Player

This is available to all podcast guests.

This is the best option for website embeds, especially prior to the release date. Guests can listen to your episode on your website. This player keeps listeners on your site, which is why I use it.

Use this code to embed your Buzzsprout Player directly on your website:

<div id="buzzsprout-player-19179478"></div><script src="https://www.buzzsprout.com/2216718/episodes/19179478-adventure-travel-with-william-blair-the-best-of-the-wild.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-19179478&player=small" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>

Full-Length YouTube Video Player

This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.

You can share it before the release date, but your video won’t be searchable on YouTube until the release date. The player allows site visitors to watch your episode directly on your site.

Use this code to embed your YouTube Video directly on your website:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LsnSV5p94jc?si=69iOj1FSg5TJIJJW&rel=0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

45 Minute One-on-One Website Review

This is available to Base Camp, Expedition, and Summit Partners.

Your package includes a 45 minute video call where I will be your second set of eyeballs as we go through your website looking for a handful of changes or updates you can make to improve your conversions. I will share my feedback and you can share it with your marketing team, or we can explore ways that I may be able to help you make the changes. This is not a sales call, it’s an idea session that will give you some actionable insights and you can decide how to implement them.

Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©

This is available to Expedition & Summit Partners.

Exclusive Guest Resource

Big World Made Small Podcast Pitch Portal©

This Big World Made Small guest resource helps you use your featured guest page to approach relevant podcasts, interview series, live shows, and other media opportunities. Every Generate Pitch button below creates a personalized outreach draft using your guest feature, story, and the specific opportunity you choose.

Want a faster starting point? Use the fit-sorting tool to reorder the list based on which opportunities appear strongest for you. Either way, each generated pitch is still customized before you copy it or open an email draft.

Note: email apps do not always load your normal signature when opening a pre-filled draft. Before sending, add your signature manually, or use Copy Pitch and paste the draft into a new email so your usual signature is included.

Created exclusively for Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast partners.
Sort by Best Fit for William Optional: reorder the list based on this guest feature, story, format fit, and each opportunity’s audience. Pitch generation works either way.

Tourpreneur Podcast

Hosted by Mitch Bach

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for tour operators, guides, experience designers, tourism founders, travel tech/service providers, and industry experts with practical lessons for experience-based travel businesses.

Audience: Tour operators, guides, activity providers, travel experience creators, tourism entrepreneurs, and businesses serving the tours and activities sector.

Suggested angle: Pitch a specific, useful lesson from your tourism business: growth, guest experience, guiding, tour design, storytelling, sustainability, niche positioning, partnerships, or operational improvement.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Destination On The Left

Hosted by Nicole Mahoney

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for tourism leaders, destination marketers, operators, hospitality professionals, consultants, and experience-based travel businesses with a useful collaboration, marketing, or destination-development story.

Audience: Tourism professionals, destination marketers, hospitality leaders, travel trade professionals, tourism consultants, DMOs, attractions, operators, and industry service providers.

Suggested angle: Pitch a practical tourism lesson around collaboration, destination marketing, visitor experience, partnerships, hospitality, accessibility, sustainability, travel trade, or creative growth strategy.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Destination Marketing Podcast

Hosted by Adam Stoker

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for tourism marketers, DMO leaders, travel brands, operators, consultants, and experience-based businesses with a clear lesson about attracting visitors or improving destination strategy.

Audience: Destination marketers, tourism professionals, DMOs, CVBs, tourism agencies, travel brands, hospitality marketers, and industry service providers.

Suggested angle: Pitch a specific tourism marketing lesson around destination storytelling, niche positioning, visitor experience, partnerships, content strategy, community building, sustainability, or measurable campaign results.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Zero To Travel

Hosted by Jason Moore

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for guests with strong traveler-facing stories, practical travel lessons, destination expertise, adventure experience, nomad lifestyle insight, or a compelling personal transformation through travel.

Audience: Travelers, aspiring long-term travelers, digital nomads, backpackers, adventure travelers, career-break travelers, and people seeking deeper or more independent travel experiences.

Suggested angle: Pitch a traveler-focused story or practical lesson around meaningful travel, adventure, destination immersion, career breaks, long-term travel, responsible travel, personal transformation, or travel lifestyle design.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Amateur Traveler

Hosted by Chris Christensen

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for guides, operators, destination experts, travel writers, locals, historians, and tourism professionals who can explain why a specific destination is worth visiting and how to experience it well.

Audience: Curious travelers, independent travelers, cultural travelers, destination researchers, itinerary planners, and people looking for practical advice before choosing or planning a trip.

Suggested angle: Pitch a destination-specific episode with a clear one-week itinerary, practical planning advice, cultural context, local insight, hidden gems, common mistakes, and reasons travelers should visit now.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Travel With Meaning

Hosted by Mike Schibel

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for guests with a strong personal travel story, meaningful destination experience, hospitality background, outdoor/adventure connection, conservation angle, or transformational travel lesson.

Audience: Travelers, hospitality professionals, outdoor enthusiasts, creatives, entrepreneurs, travel storytellers, and people interested in meaningful, experience-driven travel.

Suggested angle: Pitch a personal story about how travel changed your life, career, worldview, business, community, or relationship with nature, with a clear emotional hook and useful takeaway for travelers.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

The Thoughtful Travel Podcast

Hosted by Amanda Kendle

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for travelers, guides, writers, creators, operators, educators, and tourism professionals with reflective stories about culture, connection, slow travel, responsible tourism, or personal growth through travel.

Audience: Thoughtful travelers, slow travelers, cultural travelers, travel storytellers, bloggers, writers, photographers, educators, and people interested in deeper travel experiences.

Suggested angle: Pitch a story tied to one clear travel theme: meeting locals, slow travel, culture shock, getting lost, responsible travel, memorable travel moments, travel lessons, or how one journey changed your perspective.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Armchair Explorer

Hosted by Aaron Millar

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for guests with a truly strong adventure story, expedition background, conservation journey, wilderness guiding experience, remote destination expertise, or dramatic traveler-facing narrative.

Audience: Adventure travelers, outdoor enthusiasts, armchair explorers, expedition fans, travel storytellers, conservation-minded travelers, and people drawn to immersive travel narratives.

Suggested angle: Pitch one specific, high-stakes travel story with a clear beginning, tension, turning point, and takeaway, not a general business bio or promotional destination pitch.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Women Who Travel

Hosted by Lale Arikoglu

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for female-identifying travelers, guides, founders, writers, creators, conservation voices, hospitality leaders, and destination experts with a strong personal travel story or useful perspective for women travelers.

Audience: Women travelers, solo travelers, culturally curious travelers, outdoor/adventure travelers, Condé Nast Traveler readers, and people interested in personal stories about how women experience the world.

Suggested angle: Women travelers, solo travelers, culturally curious travelers, outdoor/adventure travelers, Condé Nast Traveler readers, and people interested in personal stories about how women experience the world.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Unpacked by AFAR

Hosted by Aislyn Greene

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for credible travel experts, operators, guides, conservation voices, hospitality leaders, and destination specialists with practical insight for thoughtful travelers.

Audience: Thoughtful travelers, AFAR readers, travel planners, cultural travelers, sustainability-minded travelers, destination researchers, and people who want smarter travel advice.

Suggested angle: Pitch a timely, expert-led travel question: ethical wildlife tourism, community-based travel, overtourism, local culture, sustainability, destination decision-making, guiding standards, or how travelers can choose better experiences.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Active Travel Adventures

Hosted by Kit Parks

Podcast
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: Best for guides, operators, destination experts, active travel companies, outdoor educators, and travelers with practical advice or stories around hiking, biking, paddling, walking, or soft adventure travel.

Audience: Active travelers, adventure travelers, hikers, bikers, paddlers, walkers, pilgrimage travelers, national park visitors, and travelers over 50 seeking doable active vacations.

Suggested angle: Pitch a specific active travel destination or experience with practical planning advice, difficulty level, training tips, safety considerations, cultural context, and why it is doable for reasonably fit travelers.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

Tour Pro Talks

Hosted by Genevieve White

LinkedIn Live Newsletter Article / Blog Interview
General opportunity notes

Why it may fit: This is a strong fit for guests with practical tourism experience, founder stories, destination expertise, guiding knowledge, or useful lessons for tour operators and travel professionals.

Audience: Tour operators, guides, DMCs, travel advisors, tourism marketers, and small to mid-sized travel businesses interested in practical industry conversations and better guest communication.

Suggested angle: Position the guest around a practical tourism lesson, founder/operator story, destination expertise, or a conversation that helps tour professionals better connect with their ideal guests.

Generate Pitch Copy Pitch

All Video & Audio Files with Rights to Repurpose

This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.

Use these buttons to access and download the video files from our conversation on Riverside.fm.

Important: Do this now, since the files will likely be removed from the server on July 1, 2026

45 Minute Content Strategy Session

This is available to Expedition and Summit Partners.

Your package includes a 45 minute video call where we can discuss ways that you can use the video assets you’ve received as a partner. Whether it’s advising you on how to create shorts from the raw video, or how to post the entire video on YouTube and embed it on your site. We’ll come up with at least a few actionable ideas, and discuss how to implement them. This is not a sales call, it’s more like a paid coaching session, that you’ve already paid for.

Custom Branded Video Clips (12 clips)

This is available to Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

2 x 45 Minute Digital Marketing Strategy Sessions

This is available to Summit Partners.

Upgrade to unlock these benefits.

Review & Suggest Topic Tags

Review Episode Topics

Suggestions only

These topic suggestions help keep this episode profile accurate and easier to find. Your suggestions will be reviewed before any changes are made.

Select up to 8 topic tags.
Suggested new topics will not be added automatically. They will be reviewed first.

Podcast Transcript

This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.

Jason Elkins (00:01.178)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today and very excited to have my guest today. We’ve got William Blair. Will is the manager of the best of the wild. Will, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

William Blair (00:19.714)
Jason, it’s nice to be on here. You you reached out and, you know, we have a mutual Orvis connection where we’ve met before. So thank you. I appreciate it.

Jason Elkins (00:27.802)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s great to reconnect because you’re one of those guys that I’ve had a little bit of dealings with at Orvis and some of my colleagues there had more dealings with you. And then you and I haven’t connected. And I don’t even want to say how long it’s been. It’s been a day or two. So it was nice. It’s nice to reconnect with you. And you’ve got some stuff you’re doing that’s just super fascinating. And I know our listeners are going to, for some of them, it’ll be kind of an eye-opening moment. Like, wow, I didn’t even know people did that stuff.

William Blair (00:38.893)
Right?

William Blair (00:45.549)
Yeah, all happened.

Jason Elkins (01:00.54)
and then others will have been following you for a while. So it’ll be kind of fun. We’re definitely gonna get into your background, because that’s what this is all about, is I wanna hear your story, I want our listeners to be able to hear your story. And before we do that, I wanna give them kind of a heads up on what is the best of the wild, and kind of what is it you do. We’re not gonna go too far, well, maybe we’ll go far into it. We’re not gonna go too far at the moment. We’re gonna kind of…

And now it’s kind of what it is. And then we’re going to go back, figure out how the heck you got from where you were to where you are now. And then we’ll talk about it some more. let’s see how that goes. Will, what is the best of the wild?

William Blair (01:34.839)
Okay.

So the best of the wild is my own version of a business model. The best of Kamchatka and prior to that Kamchatka expeditions where I did what I still continue to do now, do the marketing sales, but I’m also on the ground.

so all the years, 23 summers and Kempchakka, 21 of those really working for myself. I was on the ground guiding every day in and out of town by helicopters and, and representing the place. then I happened to get into contact with Fico Wallace down in the Bahamas. And that has worked out really great. Ragged Island is super wild place. And,

That morphed into a connection in Brazil where I’ve done 11 trips since 2023, since 2023 down to Brazil. Kind of have that. That’s a little different, but with the Bahamas, I’m there a lot of the time. I’m going back to Kamchatka this year and I’ll be guiding again on the ground, meeting people in town. Sorry, there I’m the pounding on the table.

Jason Elkins (02:55.388)
Yeah

William Blair (02:57.908)
So, so my business model is I, not what I would consider an agent, although I do much of the same things as agents, but I’m also like when, for all the years of running the best of Chemtchatka, which was, my three programs I ran for almost 20 years in Chemtchatka.

I could honestly tell people when you get off the helicopter, you’re going to be looking me in the eye at some point during your week. had three programs and I would rotate between the three programs, but you know, I’m just totally immersed into everything I do. And if I’m not really immersed into it, I don’t.

Jason Elkins (03:28.838)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (03:39.036)
Great.

William Blair (03:44.638)
have enough interest in just selling a fish and trip. I want to have, it’s not really control, I want to have the ability to make great programs and they take time sometimes. So they take some development and they take, you know, not always a hard hand, you know, you could go into Russia and use a heavy hand back in the early days and they would write you off. And that actually hasn’t changed, but

Jason Elkins (04:11.376)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Right. Well, I, so what I kind of hear you saying is, and you just correct me if I’m wrong, but what I hear you saying started as best of, you say it more like Kamchatka. How do we pronounce? It’s Kamchatka. Yeah. So.

William Blair (04:24.544)
Yeah, Kamchatka. I’m going to Yep. I think the history of that is really tells the tale. Yeah. So even before BESA Kamchatka, I worked at the fly shop in Reading for three years. And then before that, I was partners in a company called Kamchatka Expeditions.

Jason Elkins (04:34.204)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (04:47.194)
I think we need to share with our listeners what the heck is Kempchatka, because there’s people listening to this right now that have no idea what you’re talking about. I do.

William Blair (04:52.748)
Huh, yeah. It’s fascinating. If you play risk or a submariner, you’ll know it. Otherwise, Americans really aren’t quite aware of what Kamchatka is. It’s the large peninsula right above Japan that hangs off of Eastern Russia. It’s a thousand miles long.

has really one dirt road one quarter of the world’s pacific salmon spawn there every year it gets five species plus a sixth species of pacific salmon sema cherry salmon we don’t get in the united states they’re little guys but it’s really the peninsula is shaped like a fish the chemchatney row which is the fish department for chemchatka their logo is actually the peninsula

shaped as a fish and it’s true wilderness it’s really one of the most spectacularly beautiful places so you know everyone always asks me man I’ve been asked a million times how in the world do you end up over there

Jason Elkins (05:49.398)
Alright.

Jason Elkins (06:05.404)
We’re gonna, we’re gonna share with that. We’re gonna share the answer to that on this conversation for sure. And also want everybody to be like, why do people, why, without going into why you chose to go there, but why, you know, what is interesting about Kamchatka from a tourist perspective? Why do people go there? You’ve mentioned things about fish and fishing, but I’m curious, is that the main draw or is there other stuff going on there or what’s going on?

William Blair (06:30.318)
Okay.

William Blair (06:34.348)
That’s a dynamite question because in most of the world and certainly in all of Russia, Asia, quite a bit in Europe, they know about Kamchatka. is, has 29, maybe it’s more active volcanoes right now. It’s deciduous forest. It’s unroaded.

It’s spectacularly beautiful. People go there for birding. has stellar sea eagles, one of the few places in the world where there’s large breeding populations. Brown bears, my Russian partner does a brown bear viewing program at Two-Year Lake Base Lodge, where you can see as many brown bears as Brooks Falls in Alaska, but there’s, you know, not very many people go there. And so the peninsula is actually

growing now it’s become more of a tourist place than it was when I first went there 29 years ago and so it’s growing they have a brand spanking new international domestic airport they just opened last year

and there’s quite a bit of tourism there for the fish, for the bears. It would be a very close thing to what you would see in Alaska, know, in Bristol Bay, except more mountainous. are many 14,000 foot peaks. You have Cluch of Skye, which is the largest volcano on Asian continent. It’s almost 16,000 feet from sea level and it’s a world heritage site.

right there around Kluciuskaya volcano and all the volcanoes that are right next to it. And, you know, it’s a place where wilderness is still available in an incredibly beautiful setting. It’s green and lush and just spectacular, you know, aesthetically.

Jason Elkins (08:26.46)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (08:42.832)
I don’t, I recognize this could bring up a political conversation and that’s okay. We can discuss whatever we wanna discuss. And the question that I think I most wanna ask is why do you think it, well, I guess first I should say from my perspective, it seems like a lot of people don’t know where it is. When I worked at Orvis and we had conversations about it, was maybe the really, you know, serious fly fishermen kind of maybe knew where it was. They’ve heard of it at least. But why do you think it is that

William Blair (08:48.652)
Yeah, it’s fine.

Jason Elkins (09:11.408)
The general population in the US, if you said come chat, get to them, they would not even get the right continent.

William Blair (09:18.446)
So, you know, just to touch a little bit on how I feel about it, personally based on almost 30 years of representing Kamchatka programs and being involved is the Western, but not European. The Europeans know about Kamchatka.

Jason Elkins (09:36.774)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (09:39.212)
the West meaning the United States, South America. I bet South Americans know about it, maybe. But we, Will Rogers went to Russia in 1926 and came home and wrote in the Saturday Evening Post and all kinds of places. And one of the takeaways he had was I could write anything bad I want about Russia and all America will believe it. And.

Jason Elkins (10:04.91)
yeah, yeah.

William Blair (10:06.506)
And, you know, I have always been, well, initially, and for many years, I was very sad about that. I’ve come to accept it. It’s just the way it is. You know, it is a spectacular place in the world and has been voted one of the most beautiful places in the world. One of the, and lots of travelers who do big travel programs like…

will know about Chemtchatka. It’s well known inside international wilderness travel for sure.

Jason Elkins (10:42.086)
And

Yeah, so I get that. And I’m just curious if you had to guess, and this is probably not a fair question to ask, but I’m just curious what you would guess. If you look at all of the travelers from North America traveling to Kamchatka over the course of a year, I guess the first question I should ask is, do you have any idea what number that is?

William Blair (11:00.706)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (11:08.398)
Well, yeah, there’s let’s let’s go back five years, six years, and then we’ll discuss the changes. But but I’m curious, like how many people go and what percentage of them are going for fishing? Is that like a big chunk of it?

William Blair (11:12.064)
Okay, so when the war started…

When the war started in…

William Blair (11:24.137)
From North America, yeah. There’s certainly people who go there for birding from the U.S. Volcanologists, people hiking and stuff, but it was a small fraction of the number of people that were coming from Europe and Asia to Kamchatka from North America. So for many years there was a flight from Anchorage to Petropavlovsk.

which is pretty short and that would be 80 % fishermen, 5 % hunters, 5 % travelers.

maybe 70 % fishermen, there would be Russians going back and forth. But most of the people from North America, throughout the opening of Kamchatka, the majority high percentage would have been outdoorsmen, hunters in the fall, in the spring, and then in the summer fishermen. we used to, you know, there would be a hundred fishermen going over there, being spread out over a thousand miles.

And so that was, you know, one of the things that was fascinating because you could go all summer, not see anyone, but the people that are with you and on your river and your guests. And it’s much the same now, certainly the way we’re going to operate. The day the Ukraine conflict broke out, had 163 deposited customers for four full programs.

And, you know, now it’s changed. There’s no longer a flight from Anchorage. I don’t know. You know, that’s a whole podcast in itself. And so we’re going to, in 207, we went through Korea to Vladivostok to Petropavlovsk. We’re going to go, Beijing Petro or Vladivostok Petro this year. But we took, you know, the, the, charter flight was always.

William Blair (13:26.126)
Maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe not. In 2006 and 2007, they didn’t do it. And I took 157 people through Seoul, Korea. And, you know, that was sort of a force of, it was, you know.

We had a lot of people booked when the flight canceled. And so, you know, the way I’m running it now, I’m taking four people a week. That’s it. It’s going to be very, we used to take 18 for all summer long.

Jason Elkins (13:57.798)
Yeah, because I think I want to make sure we get back into the history of even pre-Kamchatka for you. But before we do that, this is the perfect opportunity to discuss a little bit more about what’s going on, because I suspect a lot of people listening to this are like, didn’t even think you could go to Russia or why would I go to Russia? And some people are just more open to doing things than other people.

William Blair (14:04.566)
Yeah

Jason Elkins (14:23.408)
Like I have it kind of in my mind that I can’t really go to Russia right now. And I’m very open-minded. Yeah, I suspect so. So tell us about that. What do you want people to know about going to Russia? What that might be like in extreme Eastern Russia? And yeah, just what do you want them to know?

William Blair (14:27.628)
There you go.

William Blair (14:42.146)
Well, so I would say that there’s never been a shutdown of Americans going into Russia. The visa process is exactly the same. I just did mine last week and I’m using Red Star Travel out of Seattle, who I’ve used since 2004, since the beginning of the Basta Kamchatka. And they basically walk your visa through. get an invitation. So

you know, we’ll get into this a little bit differently maybe later, but I have had the same Russian partner since 1999 and

He has huge concessions all over Kamchatka and and so for us For him and I and Svetlana halavina our manager since then nothing’s different It’s exactly the same the flight path through Beijing to Vladivostok to Petro

is better than what the hunters have been going for. American, North American hunters have been going in droves for the past two years and again will go this year. And in the fall, my Russian partner has a sheep hunting group from North America coming in early August and then he has moose hunters coming in November, December. And so, but they were going through.

Jason Elkins (16:05.99)
Now, you said that… Go ahead.

William Blair (16:09.571)
They were going through the Middle East, which is crazy. So you go to Istanbul or Dubai and then to Moscow and then to Petro. So it’s three really long flights. Crazy. But last year, China and Russia opened up visa-free travel. And so from Beijing to Vladivostok and Beijing to Khabarovsk, there are now lots of connecting flights because those are really, you know, growing commercial areas.

that the Chinese are flooding into now with visa-free travel and Kamchatka as well. And there’s daily flights between Kamchatka and Vlad and Kamchatka and Hibarovsk. So there’s lots of connections. It’s actually a benefit.

Jason Elkins (16:56.614)
What’s the, yeah, I was gonna ask what’s the, because obviously Anchorage direct sounds pretty great, but Anchorage is not super close to most people that live in the US either. So what’s the difference, like what it was going through Anchorage to what it is now going through Beijing? Are we talking it’s twice as complicated, twice as long? Help me get my head around that.

William Blair (17:18.671)
So it’s probably 25 % more flying time, a little bit more jockeying, waiting in the Vladivostok airport for the next flight to go to Petro early in the morning. you know, but overall, if you’re coming from New York, it’s only a few hours more. If you were going to Anchorage, your New York Anchorage is five, six hours.

Jason Elkins (17:24.476)
Okay.

William Blair (17:47.791)
You know, you have four and a half, five hours to Petro. So I guess it’s probably 30 % more flying time.

Jason Elkins (17:47.804)
Okay, I wouldn’t even doubt

Jason Elkins (17:55.75)
Okay, but I heard you and I heard you say in a sense, obviously the routing has changed, but I kinda heard you say not really much else has changed, but I also heard you say you’re only running four guests instead of 16. So help me understand, that a demand issue? Is that an issue of people? Okay, all right.

William Blair (18:12.569)
you

Yeah. Yeah, total demand issue. And that’s created by your question about, I didn’t think we could go there. You know, I get this all the time and it’s absolutely commonplace for me to hear, I didn’t think you could go to Russia. Nothing has changed. And so, except the routing. So,

Jason Elkins (18:26.108)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (18:40.847)
The benefit of going this route actually is that you don’t have to miss. we had something that would cause trouble with us with the route from Anchorage to Petro and Petro to Anchorage was when you’re coming out of the wilderness camps, if you didn’t make that Monday night, 8.30 PM flight, you had to go home the long way anyway and buy a real expensive ticket. And had the same inconvenience.

So, you I forget where you asked me a couple questions. I’m trying to

Jason Elkins (19:15.356)
Well, was mostly just about what took you from 16 anglers to four anglers.

William Blair (19:21.559)
okay. Yeah. So, so when we had flights, regular flights from Anchorage, we, had the Ozrenaya River jet boat lodge where we took eight people a week and we had two year river float, which we did for 21 summers where we took six people a week. And then we had the fly out rainbows from above out of two year base lodge.

where we took four or eight people a week in 2017, 18 and 19. We had multiple weeks with two helicopters operating every day with eight anglers.

So, you know, we would take anywhere from 18 to 20 to 22 people a week for many, many years, but they’re all located quite a bit of quite far from each other. So the Azranaya is up north and it would take for us to open the doors on that. would take three or four full MI-8 helicopter loads of equipment, motors, boats, lumber, crazy amounts of stuff. And, you know, to turn

the key on you could only really do that if you had 10 weeks of eight anglers 80 people it just doesn’t pencil out anyway that way the float trip huh fascinatingly enough I always ran that from from a business standpoint it was my loss leader

It was a great fishery. Some years it was crazy great. Some years it was really good, but you know not crazy great. But we did that because my competitors were doing lots of float trips. And we had a nice situation at the Two Yurt River, which comes out of Two Yurt Lake, which means always clear, pretty dependable fishery. And my Russian partner built five sets of cabins.

William Blair (21:16.565)
along the river and you’d float every night between a set of wood building cabins, which is great because there’s of bears there. so that just that also doesn’t pencil out. You’d have to have, you know, and the people who are going to travel to do a float trip are probably not going to put in the effort to go to China and then to Vlad and then to Petro.

Jason Elkins (21:22.46)
Nice,

William Blair (21:44.672)
at a lower price because we’d have to flow that it’s that market. It just doesn’t make sense to spend my energy selling that kind of trip when it does you know you can emulate that in a million places in Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, all.

Jason Elkins (22:04.476)
Yeah, I get it. get it. Especially with the mindset stuff and people’s concerns about Russia’s like, yeah, we can just go do a float trip. Yeah, in Montana or whatever, right? mean, it’s, yeah.

William Blair (22:09.956)
Yep.

William Blair (22:13.475)
Yeah, so. So for six summers out of two year base lodge. Where my Russian partner has a 49 year federal lease. We ran rainbows from above where we keep a helicopter and a mechanic and a pilot at the lodge. Myself and four anglers and this year it will be Yegor Holovina as the Russian guide. And we fly out every day to different rivers that there’s about 15.

that we can access seven on the west coast, eight on the east coast. They’re all great.

fly fishing rainbow trout fisheries. They’re spectacular. And so that one pencils out because that lodge is in operation in the spring for spring bear hunting, in the summer in July for spring bear viewing. And we’re going to use it in August and early September for flying out every day. And that’s what we did for many six summers. And we would take about nine groups a summer, most of them.

Jason Elkins (22:53.649)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:19.74)
I’m try and ask you the question that I think some people might be wondering as they listen to this. It’s kind of pointed, but sometimes when something like world events happen and people quit going or fewer people go, that some people listen to that and say, you know what, let’s just wait till things settle out. It sounds like they’ve cut back on services. They’re not doing this stuff. So we’ll just wait until things get back to normal.

William Blair (23:25.049)
Sure.

Jason Elkins (23:49.924)
Other people say, maybe this is an opportunity to, yeah, right? This is an opportunity to go have an experience that maybe fewer anglers, less pressure. I’m not putting, don’t want, yeah, exactly, right? So it’s like, wow, we’re literally the only ones there and maybe.

William Blair (23:53.32)
Those are the smart ones, by the way.

William Blair (24:04.323)
Just knowing.

Jason Elkins (24:12.208)
Maybe because resources have been consolidated a little bit, it might actually provide a better opportunity. I don’t know, what are your thoughts? Like, what do you tell people that are trying to decide? Do I wait or do I take advantage of it? Go now.

William Blair (24:23.779)
So, you know, even before all this mess started, everyone was always terrified about the helicopters. And so, you know, when you say things consolidate or retrench immediately, I bet people think, gosh. So, Chemchek lives and breathes on helicopters. Chemchek, Avelini brought in, brought in,

20 mi8s and two mi2s back in 2012 to service the gas wellheads that are on the coast and on the mainland of the western south excuse me west central Kamchatka and So they’re busy all the time. They do lots of hella skiing in the winter time. There’s Insight I forget if it’s five or seven ski resorts downhill

ski resorts inside Petropavlovsk, the city proper. Yeah, they’ve had lot of Olympic skiers come out of Kamchatka. And so…

as an opportunity. One of the things that’s fascinating is the way we as Westerners, certainly I cut my teeth guiding in Alaska. So I saw how that operates where we’re very efficient. We find the fisheries and fish great at the right times and figure out the access that’s easiest for the anglers that you can take. Get all the flies, you know exactly how to catch them really, really

good and then run a program based on.

William Blair (26:09.837)
very much the pattern of how we did it at the flyout lodges Alaska from you know all the great lodges Enchanted Lake, Iliasca, all the guys who did it for have been doing it for 40 years and have it down to a science might just transplant into that to this program and it’s fascinating because when I look at a map of Kamchatka I don’t think that there’s another spot that could be better for a full flyout program than

to your lake. I think it’s impossible. And so that gave us an opportunity during those six summers to go do all those things, figure out the fisheries, figure out everything. But it’s very unlikely that you would find a group of four

Russians or for certainly I don’t think the Chinese people would because I’ve talked to them about what it costs to do that helicopter every day and You know, they it’s beyond the price point of what most of them except the very wealthy would spend so these fisheries that we Figured out over those six summers and I’ve been fishing up in that area since 2000

So many many years up north, north central Kamchatka and that allowed my GPS to be really full of spots that are some of the most spectacular spots on planet earth to go fishing.

for trout char, grayling. We don’t really on this program we don’t fish for salmon but we used to fish for salmon a lot at the Ozronite jet boat program. So what what I’m saying is you just won’t no one will have been to these places because they are not going to run this kind of it’s a I would call an American style flyout program.

Jason Elkins (28:09.212)
And you mentioned some you said something about everybody thinks about I didn’t I don’t know if you use the word worries So I don’t want to use the word worry but about the helicopters because I know enough about this Not anything closed way, you know But I know that when I was working at Orvis and we were you having conversations with people about that We’d hear say things about the helicopters

William Blair (28:31.523)
Yeah, all the time, man.

Jason Elkins (28:32.548)
You know, it’s like if the helicopters, you know, our guide told us if the helicopter is not spraying oil, then that’s when you got to worry. You know, it’s just stuff like that.

William Blair (28:42.019)
And so I think, I think I can answer this really well. In, when I first went there in 1997, Russia was a broken country. They were down and out. And that’s when a lot of these

magazine articles about fly fishing came out about Kamchatka and they look terrible. They were still painted the Soviet orange and blue maintenance back in 97, 98. I think it was reasonably questionable. still, so the thing is, they, go by international standards and Russia has follows exact same international standards that we do in the United States.

for helicopters, they might do some rebuilt things different, but everything else is up to a international standard that they adhere to. so over like when Kamchatsky, Aviya came in and brought all those helicopters. They’re all now painted with, you know, scenes of wolves and bears. They’re spectacular looking and they’re all

Jason Elkins (29:59.357)
So they look like Frontier Airlines or something, right?

William Blair (30:01.819)
they look better than Frontier Airlines. They’re spectacular. have pictures of them on my website and on Facebook and different things. And they’re just spectacular. so like we, with the fly out program, had Dima and Velodja. And Velodja has right now about 37 years of flying on Kamchatka. And I call him the accountant.

because he is just all straightforward, no monkey business, doesn’t drink. I think I’ve seen him have a glass of red wine maybe one time. And every day it’s the same. He’ll always land in a blueberry patch if there’s one by the river.

because he picks blueberries and puts them in the big gallon jars while we’re out fishing. The helicopter stays with us and back at the lodge, the company has one of their top mechanics spends the whole season at the lodge. And he checks that thing twice a day.

You know, all the Russian ones are MI-8s, MI-8s are all twin engine turbines. And so they can land on one engine. I’ve never had it happen. Knock on wood. But the fact of the matter is they have really high standards and the guys flying me, Dima had 18,000 hours in 2019 and he’s still flying every day for that company.

Jason Elkins (31:20.22)
Well

Jason Elkins (31:34.205)
I think somebody wants me to ask this. You kind of touched on it, which I’m happy you did. You said, I’ve never been in a helicopter that had to land on one engine. That’s good. I think we need to take the question a little further because you’ve spent a lot of time there. And even with perfect helicopters, you know, we see helicopters crash in New York City or Los Angeles or, you know, things, it’s aviation. So we got to be real about that. But have you had those experiences? Do you have stories?

William Blair (32:00.749)
Yeah, totally real about it.

Jason Elkins (32:04.548)
of that or I’m not asking you to share horror stories, but I’m just, just want to be real. I want to be real.

William Blair (32:06.679)
So, no, I’ll tell a really sad story that is really, you know, as much the history of aviation in Alaska as it is in Kamchatka. On August 23rd, 2003, DEMA, no, no, me, I’ll get their names in a second, three helicopter pilots I had flown with the day before.

went into Petropavlovsk and they were taking the governor of Sakhalin Island and his entire entourage back to Huzno-Sakhalin by Mi-8 helicopter, Andrei Bogdan and Igor. And Andrei, the pilot, had 29 years on Chemchak of flying. Bogdan, his co-pilot, had six.

eager had 30 years as a mechanic because those big helicopters have two pilots and a mechanic that’s in charge of that bird and they were flying

Jason Elkins (33:09.403)
if you’re right.

William Blair (33:15.427)
would have been southwest towards Sakhalin and the governor got into the cockpit and said, I want to go look at Apollo volcano. And it’s a volcano on the west coast of Kamchatka. They were flying west. I want to go look at it. And it was bad weather. I was up at two-year base lodge. I remember it was terrible weather.

And Andre, the head pilot, said, I’m not doing it. And the governor of Sakhalin Island said, you’re going to do what I tell you. I’m the governor. I’m a big mucky muck guy. And Andre said, I’m going to relinquish control to my co-pilot. And Baghdan got into zero-zero weather and crashed the helicopter, and everyone died.

Yeah. And Putin sent in a special envoy and Heli-Turka was the name of that helicopter company. And we had used them a lot over the years and they were, had just won the wings of Russia.

The year before, was the award for the safety standards in all of Russia and pilot error being pushed by somebody through weather. that’s, you know, I’ve, I had a friend in, in, hit a top of mountain and Kenai three years after that coming back or excuse me, not Kenai. They were coming back from Kotzebue moose hunting and they

were going through a pass and they should have turned around. The other plane with them turned around and they couldn’t make the turn and they, but they had risked going knowing the weather could be bad and they’ve and it was. And so, you know, that was in Alaska. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (34:51.974)
Alaska.

Jason Elkins (35:04.54)
But that was in Alaska, right? So that’s kind of, you know, I don’t know if I, yeah, I don’t want to say shit happens. go, well, no big deal because it is a big deal. But it’s, you know, I’ve also been around aviation a long time and I lived in Alaska and, you know, you heard stories of things happening there. So, so yeah, I appreciate it. Just want to kind of chat about the helicopters because I’ve heard people say, you know, say things.

William Blair (35:30.679)
The key is the guys are serious. It’s professional. It’s a big company. They do lots of other things besides working with us. We’re a little chump change for them. All their business out to the well heads, all that. They have the beautiful heliport they built back in like 2014 in Petropavlovsk. Beautiful, spectacular heliport.

they do lots of tourism. mean in the scope of area right around Petro, say 100 miles, there’s a lot of tourism. We are 350 miles away from Petropavlosk.

Jason Elkins (36:08.795)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (36:13.98)
Could they use float planes there like they do in Alaska? Or what’s the difference?

William Blair (36:18.979)
Well, you could, you could, you certainly could, but it limits trout fishing. When you have the ability to land spot on a spot that you know is low to a giant trout, or you have to land two miles away and do an hour and a half bushwhack to it. You know, so you can, but there’s, and it would be super limiting compared to helicopter.

Jason Elkins (36:47.952)
Yeah, and I get that. I’ve spent some time in New Zealand doing the hella fishing there and it’s amazing where they can just drop you right next to the hole and you can’t even believe the fish are still there. But yeah, all right.

William Blair (36:52.43)
Yeah.

William Blair (36:58.285)
Yeah. And I told you, mess with video and I just looked at a video right before we started chatting here of guys on the Levia river. landed and literally the skids or the wheels are in the water and the one guy gets out and catches a two foot, you know, a two foot rainbow trout. Right.

Jason Elkins (37:19.15)
Yeah. That crazy.

William Blair (37:22.901)
underneath the rotors basically and so it’s really you know back to the opportunity. I’m super excited. I don’t have nearly as many people as I was hoping I was going to get this year but it’s okay. I’m going back anyway and it’s going to be super exciting to set foot on those rivers that I bet some of them no one’s fished zero people since we were there.

Jason Elkins (37:47.047)
So that’s the obvious advantage to going to a place where the fishing pressure has been reduced dramatically. I know enough about fishing travel to know that. Are there any other benefits that maybe are not as obvious as far as having smaller group sizes or financial benefits or is it actually more expensive right now or what would you like to share?

William Blair (38:09.935)
So the other benefits like Svetlana was going to cook and ran our Oz camp for 16 summers. She’s an English teacher. She’s been to the US like 27 times and she but she worked exclusively with American hunters and fishermen since 1995.

and so she’s gonna get some work again which is great her son i’ve known since he was 11 is became my right hand man there speaks perfect english is a crazy fly fisherman he grew up as a kid

being a camp hand at our float trip for years and years and years. I remember seeing him do back flips off the outhouses and stuff. I’m like, you’re crazy. was a competitive snowboarder. so, you know, they’re going to be super excited. It’s just going to be Victor Reberkopf, my partner since 99. He’s going to be super excited too. And so things are just going to be like perfect.

Jason Elkins (39:20.272)
You know.

Well, maybe I’m pointing out obvious, but what I hear you saying, and I can relate to this big time, if you take, because I’ve worked with a lot of fishing guides and I managed a fishing lodge.

And sometimes they just fall into a routine. Sometimes they get burned out. Sometimes they get grumpy because they’ve been working for, you know, three months straight or some places, you know, where they have year round fishing and they just fall into this routine. It’s like, OK, just another guest, another guest, another, another rich guy from the States, whatever. And I’m not saying they should be like that. I’m not endorsing that. And I’m not saying that I’m not saying that most of her like that, but.

William Blair (40:02.145)
It happens.

Jason Elkins (40:05.786)
You know, I was also working pretty damn hard at the lodge and after, you know, six or seven months of meeting a new group of guests every Saturday, sometimes there’s a little burnout. But when you take that away, like you said, they’re going to be excited to see you. You’re going into a place where these people are super excited to have you there. They’re enthusiastic. They’ve they’ve got an opportunity to make some money and they’re probably going to go above and beyond as far as, you know, then then if if you hit them after three months of, you know, dealing with, you know,

William Blair (40:19.128)
Yeah, man!

William Blair (40:23.311)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

William Blair (40:29.0)
it’s gonna be nothing.

Jason Elkins (40:34.684)
10 clients a week for six months or well three months, whatever it is. But yeah.

William Blair (40:38.303)
It’s fascinating because Svetlana and I have talked about how much, you know, when you’re in the throes of the really great times. mean, she had for 16 years would have 10 weeks of eight fishermen under her care every week, right? And she loved it, man. I’ll put her food, I’ll put her food against any lodge in the world, any lodge. No one’s ever going to beat it. It’s impossible.

Jason Elkins (41:06.596)
We gotta take a moment. Maybe you’re going here, but I wanna make sure we cover this, because I suspect that’s something else people are wishing I would ask is, tell us more about the food. She’s a great cook, but what is Russian food? What do these guys eat when they go fishing in Konchakuo, or gals?

William Blair (41:22.531)
Well, so breakfast is pretty normal. You know, you have oatmeal, eggs, bacon, sausage. They also make blini, which is basically their version of a crepe. And there’ll be a pile.

every single day freshly cooked that morning every day and Dave Vanez who went with us I don’t know three times to the fly out a couple times to the um jet boat program swears the best crepes he’s ever had are on are svetlana’s on Kamchatka and he was born and raised in Paris and knows a little about crepes

Jason Elkins (42:01.756)
he knows something about that. He’s had a few.

William Blair (42:05.823)
And, and, know, then lunch, you know, we do the standard sandwich, but she makes these crazy sandwiches that are off the charts. And it’s the cool thing about the helicopter program is no one has to carry the sandwiches or anything. It’s in the helicopter. They come down and find us for lunch and we spread out a big lunch. It’s awesome. And at dinner, she’ll have all kinds of every meal will have a soup, handmade.

Jason Elkins (42:31.878)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (42:32.631)
from scratch spectacular borscht of course but all kinds of other soups and then she’ll have a big family style table set out with three or four different salads you know some unique things from kazakhistan and it’ll be very international and but it won’t be crazy spicy and almost but all these

sides all these salads and then there’ll be pork chops on the grill that’ll be like you know perfect it’s not weird man you’re out

Jason Elkins (43:07.74)
Cool. So it’s not just borscht and stewed cabbage.

William Blair (43:14.895)
no, there’ll be so much food. It was one of the jokes because the dogs always get fat when the American fishermen are being cooked more by Spelana because there’s always a lot left over, right? And so, yeah, she really puts out incredibly international spread, plove, all kinds of, you know,

the favorites of the Russian people. And she also makes spaghetti once a week, right? That is like…

off the charts and there’s so much food you have a hard time pacing yourself. Dinners in Russia, they slow us down. They could be a couple hours long, easy. Take your time. Although if you’re working really hard, the cool thing about

to your base lodge, one of the really cool things is 100 meters from the guest cabin, there’s a hot spring. So that’s the only place where we, man, you know, at the Oz we used to have campfires after dinner. So sometimes they would shorten them up a little bit to have campfires, but everyone goes in the hot spring. A lot of times they’ll do it before dinner.

well, dinners can be just a hootenanny. It’s a, it’s, it’s really great. And, and, you know, there’s, four is a small group. It’s small, intimate group. but there’s enough other people around. Dennis will be there who’s a camp hand, a mechanic, carpenter who’s has that place spotless. And so, you know, it’s, it’s,

Jason Elkins (44:47.472)
Yeah, yeah it is, yeah.

William Blair (45:04.463)
Set in one of the most beautiful valleys. You’re right up in the mountains almost and So

Jason Elkins (45:12.412)
Is it, do you guys drink anything other than vodka?

William Blair (45:18.46)
yeah. And so I think the Russians brew some of the best beer on the planet.

Jason Elkins (45:20.156)
Just in case that’s important to anybody listening.

William Blair (45:28.559)
Kempchaka beer is made in Petropavlovsk. Again, back to knowing about Kempchaka worldwide, Kempchaka is famous for its pure water. so like Kempchaka number one beer, which is owned by my partner’s friend, is spectacular. And we keep it in a hot spring right behind the guests or the hot spring, the cold spring creek.

Jason Elkins (45:45.596)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (45:53.508)
Yeah, what I was gonna say.

William Blair (45:55.823)
There’s a creek that runs right behind the gas cabins that’s like 48 degrees.

Jason Elkins (45:59.613)
But here can you can you sit? Can you sit in the hot spring and reach over into the cold spring to grab the beer? That’s what it would be really cool. You guys you guys need to reroute the creek a little bit, baby, but Alright So we’re at this point in the conversation We’re gonna definitely discuss some of the other things you do But I think this is the point in the conversation where I say okay. Well, you’re sitting in the hot spring drinking a What was it one beer? I come Chaka one

William Blair (46:06.435)
Mm. Not quite. Not quite. Not quite.

Yeah, it’d have to go uphill. I don’t think it would.

William Blair (46:28.353)
I’m checking number one,

Jason Elkins (46:29.776)
Kempchatka number one, y’all are sitting around drinking a beer. And then the question start that we alluded to earlier. Will, how the heck did you get into this? How the heck did you end up here with us right now? So I wanna take advantage of this moment, cause we’re talking about enjoying a beer sitting in the hot spring. Tell me, let’s go, and let’s not just go back to your first job in the fishing business. What were you doing when you were a kid? What did you wanna do when you grew up? That type of thing.

William Blair (46:47.299)
Great. Great.

William Blair (46:57.901)
So I was a crazy fisherman since young, young age. And my folks had a lake house in Southwest Michigan on Corey Lake outside Three Rivers, Michigan. Beautiful glacial Moraine Lake. And my dad’s best friend, Jarvis Petticord, had been a camper there like 1905 at Camp Eberhardt.

It’s a YMCA camp and most of that lake, still a YMCA camp and it’s crystal clear. I grew up snorkeling and fishing. I mean, just boats. My dad was a boat guy. We had, I had my first outboard motor and boat when I was nine years old, given to me.

Jason Elkins (47:31.908)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (47:42.076)
Okay, this is all starting to make sense.

William Blair (47:44.303)
You take care of it. Yeah. And so we, always had, we’re around boats, skiing, you know, really, um, it’s a little spoiled, but really into boats. And I was always, I really loved canoes and I would put it in the St. Joe river and go to the craziest places where other guys wouldn’t go. And, you know, then my, got out of college and my, dad’s friend Jarvis said, what the heck are you going to do with your life now? Why don’t you go be, you’re so crazy about.

fish and go fish for a living and so I yeah

Jason Elkins (48:16.656)
What, we go there, so your dad gave you a boat and an outboard when you were nine and kind of gave it a license to just either go drown, kill yourself, do whatever, right? You had a lot of license. Was your mom around in this? Was she part of this picture? Was she supportive? What was, I’m always curious how that… Things have changed, haven’t they? Things have changed.

William Blair (48:24.142)
Yeah.

William Blair (48:27.405)
while almost

William Blair (48:37.903)
She just wanted out of the house. That’s it. Just go.

Jason Elkins (48:46.16)
Back in the day, you’re nine, here, take a boat and a motor, go get out, and now you’re 29. Yeah, I don’t. And now when your kid hits 29, you’re like, well, you can stay here, why don’t you stay here, save money, and I’m not knocking it. I’m not knocking anybody’s choices, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, so. Did you have siblings?

William Blair (48:50.177)
you’d be arrested for what they did. You would be arrested for what they did, for sure.

William Blair (49:05.075)
No, not either. it’s different. We were, you know, free range kids. were no telephones and you know, honestly, my dad was just like, just go do whatever you want. Go do it. He coined that phrase way before Nike. Just do it. And you know, so we were, we were pretty much, yeah, yeah, with a few bucks of bruise.

Jason Elkins (49:12.185)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (49:25.884)
and you survived. That’s awesome. Now, what about siblings? Did you have siblings?

William Blair (49:32.077)
I have an older brother who passed away last year from cancer. And I have a younger sister who’s six years younger than me. We’re very, very close. lives in Alabama. That’s the only problem.

Jason Elkins (49:37.348)
Okay, but he survived for a long time. So he did good, yep.

Jason Elkins (49:47.952)
Were all of you? Yeah, were all of you? I presumably you were exposed to probably the same things. Did they take grasp of it the same way you did?

William Blair (49:59.119)
Well, so I said we were spoiled so my dad said when we were might was like my 12th birthday or something he said you can either get a horse or a motorcycle and My brother got a horse and that was kind of his thing. He was slower speed. I got a KX 80 dirt bike

Jason Elkins (50:12.316)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (50:20.431)
And you know, that was all she wrote with when it was always a little bit of I like motors. I like driving boat fast boats. You know, we had a hydro stream Vandal, which is a little fiberglass boat, 14 feet long that goes 70 miles an hour. got 15. I think my dad was trying to kill me is actually. And he just wanted to see his kid have everything.

Jason Elkins (50:28.7)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (50:37.328)
Wow.

Jason Elkins (50:43.516)
I’m starting to wonder like, if I can get rid of these three kids, I can go be a fishing guide somewhere.

William Blair (50:52.515)
Do whatever I want. Yeah, yeah. No, no, he just really, he was a gadget guy. He loved things like that. So he embraced it all. I mean, he was really, really, really a special guy. And so his friend told me go get a job. I got a great sporting journal and wrote resumes to 20 fishing lodges in Alaska. And I was living in Fort Collins, Colorado after college and grew up in Indiana.

Jason Elkins (50:57.884)
Uh-huh.

William Blair (51:22.383)
and I moved out there.

Jason Elkins (51:23.44)
What did, wait, what did you, I’m curious, what did you study in school? You mentioned after college.

William Blair (51:27.119)
Political science and pre-law degree. Political science and history. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (51:30.108)
Oh, interesting. Oh, OK. Why did you choose that? Do you remember why you number one? Do remember why you chose that? You. So the guy with the nine year old with the boat and the motor and the motorcycle was sitting around thinking, man, I want to be a lawyer when I grow up. Is that what I hear? Oh, OK. All right. I’m not knocking and I’m just want to make sure I’m hearing it right. OK. When.

William Blair (51:35.533)
I wanted to go to law school. I wanted to go to law school.

William Blair (51:48.205)
Yeah, I love books. was a huge reader. Yeah, was a giant. Yeah, I was very much into history and, and anti-war, very, you know, sort of politically leaning a little bit, but I also wanted to make some money. But you know, that’s not really what it is.

Jason Elkins (52:03.644)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (52:13.552)
That’s, you’ve given up on that dream, haven’t you? Of making money. Just kidding.

William Blair (52:17.997)
So Jarvis said that I go to do an interview with Dave Egdorf who owned Western Alaska Sport Fishing and he hired me and

Jason Elkins (52:26.851)
yeah.

Jason Elkins (52:31.664)
Was this after you finished school or before school? Okay, so you’ve finished school. Were you working for a while? I just wanna fill in the little gap between I’m gonna be a lawyer, I graduated school. What did you do before you had that first interview?

William Blair (52:35.617)
after I was out of school. I was out of school a couple years.

William Blair (52:44.749)
I worked for

William Blair (52:49.399)
I went and worked in a law firm in Texas for about three months. And I said, there’s no way I want to be involved with this business. And that cured me of it. then my lifelong to this day best friend owns a third generation Ford dealer in Hobart, Indiana, hearing Ford.

Jason Elkins (52:58.972)
Okay, now I think that’s the important, that’s an important step to discuss.

William Blair (53:12.027)
And I had messed around selling cars and stuff with him and he’s like come back. And so I was, you know, doing that. And that’s when I saw Jarvis and and I had moved back to Colorado.

I was just kind of floating around fishing and working car dealerships and fishing. I I fished, I bought a drift boat, fished all over Wyoming and Colorado, my drift boat and Utah. And, that’s when Jarvis said, go get a job. And so I did and went to work for Dave Eggdorf and I loved, lost my mind. The upper Nuschkeck is one of the prettiest places on planet earth and really just was going to.

Jason Elkins (53:29.724)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (53:48.73)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (53:56.705)
you know that was where I was going but yeah

Jason Elkins (54:00.253)
Did he hire you as a guide or did you do the whole like, I’ll do anything. I just want to be in the camp. I want to learn, but he, you got, went straight in as a guy.

William Blair (54:08.719)
My guide training was they drove me up river once, down river once, and there was a big eagles nest down river. And that’s where my first day of guiding was my second time driving down there to start at the Eagles nest with repeat clients who’d been there a couple of times. It was wild. And

it was out of control and you know that’s just kind of how he ran it and he you know what part of the reason why Dave

had trouble keeping guides, I think, off and on over the years was because you were so stinking hard, man. I think that’s as hard as you can imagine a human working, setting up those camps. We set up both camps, rebuilt camps, chopping down trees for firewood. It was over the top hard work. And, you know, lot of guys don’t want to do that for very long. And so they come through a couple of years. And so, but I ate it up. I loved it.

Jason Elkins (55:10.884)
Do you remember that for it sounds like you remember you said you know you drove down to the to where the Eagles Nest was do you remember anything about your time with the clients like did did you suspect they knew I bet you do because I remember my first guy drip I remember every minute of the first guy trip I did it was also the first guy trip I’d ever been on because I’d never been with a guy but I was the guy yeah so like I’m relating to this all right so did your clients know that it was your first day

William Blair (55:14.247)
yeah.

William Blair (55:21.219)
That day? I remember it perfectly.

William Blair (55:32.845)
Me too. Me too.

Ed Garthwaite. Jed Garthwaite was one of the clients. And Jed had actually, I ended up guiding me in Chem-Check in 97. He was a big pain in the butt and he just thought he knew everything. And it was him and I can’t remember the guy with him, but he was a doctor.

and very tender, nice guy. Remember he was just a really nice guy and Jed.

Jason Elkins (56:02.811)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (56:07.583)
They had been there the year before and that would have been 93 and that was a super low water year with heat and the king salmon on the upper Nushegack there you’re basically fishing the numbers of rainbow trout around spawning king salmon. So in 93 it was hot low water the king salmon started spawning right away all the rainbows came in it was all when they were there. The year I the day my first day water’s really high

Jason Elkins (56:24.7)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (56:37.457)
Super cold.

Jason Elkins (56:38.076)
Which means hard. What I hear you saying, and I don’t know that river, but I think I hear you saying, the fishing was really good and easy the year before. Is that what you’re saying?

William Blair (56:46.157)
Yeah, And then Jen tells me, I’ll tell you where to go.

Jason Elkins (56:51.292)
Yep, uh-huh, I remember.

William Blair (56:53.071)
And I’m like, well, and he was with Paul the year before who had been there a couple of years, a few years, good fisherman. And I had heard about him and I’ll tell you where to go. And all morning we fished the spots and I could see there’s not going to be any fish there. It’s the middle of, they were there last year and at lunchtime I said, all right guys, I’m guiding the rest of the day.

Jason Elkins (57:09.798)
But there were last year.

William Blair (57:17.673)
and I put them on big holes by the staging kings where the rainbow schools were hanging out and we had a great day and I learned just such a huge lesson that day you know that you have to you know if you’re the captain of the boat you have to take control but also know what you’re know what you’re doing

Jason Elkins (57:37.372)
Yeah, you better, that’s the thing, if you take control and get control and then it doesn’t work out, can, especially if you’re gonna be with them, especially if you’re gonna be with them the rest of the week or something.

William Blair (57:44.911)
Yeah, the mistake. yeah, yeah. Well, luckily, you know, I got lucky maybe, but I was a fisherman. I knew I had been there for a couple weeks. I kind of knew what was going on. So.

Jason Elkins (57:54.341)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember on the Yellowstone, when I first got started, guys would be like, well, we fished here last year. We used these big salmon flies and we caught a lot of fish. So we’re going to use these salmon flies. This is what we should use. And I’m like.

William Blair (58:13.453)
The hatch was two weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah,

Jason Elkins (58:14.012)
The salmon flies, that was like three weeks ago, that’s done. And you’d have to, sometimes just have to let them struggle for a while until you’re like, okay, are you ready? Are you open to a suggestion now? And then you switch over to something you know is gonna work just to get that immediate. then they listen to you the rest of the day. I remember that, yeah.

William Blair (58:22.253)
Yeah, for sure. For sure.

William Blair (58:29.389)
Yeah, yeah.

And with salmon, with salmon moving around systems, it really changes location, you know, and what they’re eating and things like that. So you can be completely off or you can be spot on. you know, it’s part of a guide’s job to know what’s going on. And so I ate it.

Jason Elkins (58:40.336)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (58:54.864)
And to deal with the client. I shouldn’t say deal with the clients. To work with the clients. To be a leader. Be a leader. Yeah, a leader. Or sometimes a therapist or a coach. I remember so many days floating down the river with a client in front of the boat talking about their upcoming divorce or their past divorce or their this or their that. it’s just, yeah, so there’s a lot of skills involved.

William Blair (58:59.895)
Yeah, it’s well you get the massage room. You’re an entertainer, right?

William Blair (59:10.081)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re all those things.

William Blair (59:22.275)
But they will all want to catch fish. So for me, it was always about, you know, production of the actual thing that they came to do. I would say that I would force people to catch fish against their wishes on their fishing trip, right? Against their, that’s not to.

Jason Elkins (59:24.762)
I can’t hear you.

Jason Elkins (59:31.918)
Mm-hmm. All right.

Jason Elkins (59:37.628)
That might be where you…

might be where you and I are different and that’s why I’m doing a podcast and you’re still fishing. Because I just like to talk and have conversations.

William Blair (59:49.039)
yeah yeah yeah it’s possible man i i still eat it up man if i can make that guy catch a fish so i ate that all up i loved it and then while i was up in alaska out came the may 1994 issue of fly fisherman magazine

Jason Elkins (01:00:13.958)
Cool.

William Blair (01:00:14.285)
Right there’s the word Kempchadka.

Jason Elkins (01:00:17.532)
All right, yeah, so for those listening that don’t see it, he’s got, you said May, what year?

William Blair (01:00:23.215)
1994.

Jason Elkins (01:00:25.212)
94 and you saw come Chaka on the cover of fly fisherman magazine

William Blair (01:00:29.165)
this magazine I’m holding in my hand right now there’s an article called Yep Kamchatka Russian Rainbow Frontier by John Randolph and it’s it’s an interesting it’s more interesting to me now than it was then but it set me off because there’s all these pictures of giant rainbow trout one right after the other in a place where there’s no people

Jason Elkins (01:00:31.58)
The exact one you’re holding in your hand.

Jason Elkins (01:00:54.267)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:00:58.209)
And I was like, I want to go there. And at that time, there’s actually in the movie, very popular movie back in 2008 called Eastern Rises, the fly shop made the interview, kind of the lead guy. he says, yeah. And when I worked at Katmai Lodge, he told me I was going to go to Chemtchatka. Well, I got snookered into that too. And so I switched from Dave Egdorf’s place on the Nushagak.

to Katmai Lodge on the Alagnak River. The Katmai Lodge where Tony Sarp, the owner of Katmai Lodge was the guy sending people to Kamchatka with a relationship with Anna Tolikova-Lankov who owned a company called Perga. And so I interviewed. I this is funny because I didn’t interview with Les, the manager, Tony, the owner. I interviewed with the guys.

Jason Elkins (01:01:39.964)
case.

William Blair (01:01:56.079)
who are in that magazine article, Gie Fullhart and Leshchekover, and actually in 95 at the Denver ISC show interviewed with those guys for the job at Kempchakka. And they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s great. You go come work in Alaska and then we’ll go over mid season to Kempchakka. Cause that’s when they would go over after salmon was mostly done on the lag necker, the trout fishing in Kempchakka was really turning on. And.

Jason Elkins (01:01:58.15)
Mm-hmm. OK.

William Blair (01:02:22.591)
I went and worked there for a couple years. found out pretty quickly that they told everyone that.

Jason Elkins (01:02:30.458)
Yeah. So it sounds like, so it sounds like there was a lot of demand, a lot of guides that wanted to go to come chat.

William Blair (01:02:36.107)
Every guy.

Jason Elkins (01:02:38.778)
being told that, if you come work with us for you know, it’s kind of like, we’re gonna give you a raise in a month, we’re gonna send you to come talk in a month or whatever. And it didn’t really happen.

William Blair (01:02:41.059)
Yep. Yep.

William Blair (01:02:45.679)
No! And so in 95 I had switched from Dave’s place where I had worked every single day of the season to that place where I’m one of 33 guides at Katmai Lodge.

And I was a new guy and I got about as many weeks of guiding in as any of the new guys that were there. But I nothing like what I had done the year before. And I was like, wow. And the end chem jacket didn’t happen because Tony canceled the season and it was some big rigmarole. And so I wasn’t going to go back, but they kept talking to me in 2006. I went back and I stayed at Katmai the whole time. Again, they didn’t do a chem check or they did a short chem jacket season.

real short camp jacket season but I guided every day from June 8th October 4th at Katmai on the lag-nack doing lots of flyouts doing all kinds of jet boating really that’s what we were doing on Dave’s Place with jet boats and I love jet boats and so that year that winter Steve Parry who was a Canadian super great guy great fisherman quit

But he was one of the guides in Kamchatka. And he went and actually was headguided Dean River Lodge in Canada. And I got his spot. And they sent me over.

Jason Elkins (01:04:14.14)
Why do you, what do you think it was that helped you secure that spot?

William Blair (01:04:19.979)
when we rebuilt the dock.

in front of Katmai Lodge that summer of 2006. I pounded nails next to Tom Hogg and the head guide who had worked there for 23 years all day every day for about two weeks. I think that got me the job. They knew I could work like a maniac and I can talk and I’ve been around. I get along with pretty much anybody. I was doing a good job guiding.

I like the fishing part of it. you know, all that.

Jason Elkins (01:05:02.78)
I’m I asked that because I’ve been around a few fishing guides that are like, no, I’m a fishing guide. I’m not a contractor. I’m not a construction per whatever, right? But what I heard you say and I’m happy I asked was that effort to be a team player probably, but also just the proximity, just being close to people that are influential.

and doing it in a way that you’re helping them and you’re working with them. And it’s a great opportunity that I think a lot of younger people, whether it’s in guiding or just general in life, it’s so anyway, so thank you for sharing that.

William Blair (01:05:27.715)
Yep. Yep.

William Blair (01:05:36.589)
Yeah, and you know, the thing about it was, you know, a lot of guys spend more energy getting out of work than doing the work, right? And they were quite understood that. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:05:46.332)
I was in the army. I saw that every day. was like, holy cow. These guys are really good at getting out of work.

William Blair (01:05:56.143)
And you know, I kind of enjoy it and like building things and figuring things out and working on motors and doing all that stuff. And, know, one of the things I just didn’t want to be just a fishing guide and wanted more than that for myself. And then I went to Kamchatka and I was like, wow, this is something because we didn’t see a single other person that first year or the second year.

Zero other fishermen, nobody, ever. And I mean, the only thing you saw were the bears and the dogs. mean, if everyone’s honest about Bristol Bay, Alaska, you’re going to see other planes and other fishermen. It’s just the way it is. Kimchakka, you see no one, right?

Jason Elkins (01:06:29.52)
which is probably a big adjustment after Alaska.

Jason Elkins (01:06:40.956)
Or anywhere in the US, I mean, Madison River, the Yellowstone River, any of these places, it’s really, really weird. Like if you showed up on the Yellowstone, there was no one there, you’d think, my God, the fish must all be dead. I better check the, yeah, I better check and make sure that, yeah, so that’s cool.

William Blair (01:06:47.117)
Yeah, it’s true.

William Blair (01:06:52.739)
Bitsy.

William Blair (01:06:57.315)
Gazz or fish kill? What’s going on? Is it closed for the season or what?

right? No, I was just like wow. And the fascinating thing is you know, Parnaba River, which I went to and you know, got to Kempchak is 97.

And like I said early on, the people were really broken and it was really, they were very poor and the apartment I stayed in the first night, I was like, wow, this is something. But then I got to the lodge, a beautiful lodge and Andre Kanovaloff, the manager and his wife Marina are just, they both spoke perfect English or just incredibly bright, lovely people. I would have coffee with Andre every morning before everybody got

up because I was I’m still a pretty early riser and you know it was just it and there was no people there was no planes it was now it’s like wow this is really something man I don’t know what to think about all this and then in 90 the winter of 97 the two guys who were my boss over there quit and then the owner of the lodge said come sell fishing trips

in my office in Washington Seattle and you you know you’ll go back to Kamchatka and do all this stuff so I went to worked in the sales office for Katmai Lodge and started doing the sports show circuit and the mass mailers and he handed me giant cards stacks of cards

William Blair (01:08:35.319)
from past sports shows and I cold called for weeks, before we started the sports show thing. And I loved that too. It was great. It’s one of the great things about my job. called a guy who’s very interested in Chem Chaka this year. He sent me an email and I saw that he had sent me an email with his phone number in 2016. And I had called him the other day on the phone.

yesterday maybe it was or day before yesterday and he picks it up and he says who’s this and what’s this pertaining to and I said this is Will Blair from the best of the wild best of Kempchadka calling in response to your email about fishing can Will how are you man we talked back in 2002 you know blah blah his whole attitude changes right

Jason Elkins (01:09:18.854)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:09:23.292)
Yeah.

William Blair (01:09:27.873)
As soon as you start talking to these CEOs and guys about fishing, they’re like little kids.

Jason Elkins (01:09:34.077)
I’ve done both. I’ve done it. I’ve been in the travel and fishing business quite a good chunk of my life. But I also did real estate for a while just to try and make an ex-wife happy. trust me, the reception is not quite as good when you call and say, hey, are you still thinking about selling your house? If you’re going to sell your house, where would you go to? It’s totally different. yeah, absolutely. And if there’s a call screener,

William Blair (01:09:42.039)
Right? Yeah.

William Blair (01:09:51.535)
Bye. Right? Yeah, I’m talking to you about fishing? Yeah, man. Tell him my appointment.

Jason Elkins (01:10:04.346)
and you say, know, I’m well, I’m reaching out to him because he’d inquired about a fishing trip. yeah, you’re getting through. You’re gonna get through. Yeah, so that’s cool.

William Blair (01:10:10.511)
They pick up. They pick up. It’s awesome. It really is awesome. Yeah. And so, you know, then, um, and there’s lots of crazy stories and that summer of 98, I went over there again. And one of the things that’s frustrating is, you know,

William Blair (01:10:33.483)
Most of Chemchek is clear running rivers. They run clear all the time.

The Zhipadova where Katmai was, where this article in the magazine is about and where I was guide and then head guide in 98 has a very active volcano called the Karamskaya volcano in the drainage. And when it rains, that thing gets muddy and you can’t fish. And I was super frustrated, especially in 98, when we had two weeks back to back groups where we only fished a couple of days and you’re sitting around the lodge. Yeah.

huge rainbow trout in it. Some of the biggest in the world.

Jason Elkins (01:11:11.33)
there but

William Blair (01:11:13.391)
But I knew there was some, there was a thousand mile long peninsula. I’m like, there’s gotta be. And then I talked to Renee Lemirez who had fished some of the stuff over there was one of the really first guys to go in in 92 as he did float trips on some rivers. And he’s like, oh, there’s clear rivers. You don’t ever have to worry about dirty water. in 98, many crazy stories.

William Blair (01:11:42.497)
One of the things that Cat My Lodge also got involved with in Chemtchatka was steelhead fishing on the west coast of Chemtchatka. And they, it’s one of my favorite stories. So the steelhead program on the Soba Chinaya River, huge steelhead, 20 pound fish.

tons of just incredible wilderness middle of nowhere no one’s fished it probably since 1999 by the way for Steelhead and so the owner of Katmai Lodge is a has a different partner than the guy I’m working with so he’s working with a company called Jan and Coots to be the outfitter for the Steelhead program I happen to be in town in Petropavlovsk and got called to a meeting and we were supposed to have

six groups of steelhead fishermen I was gonna go guide that year for steelhead. First time and the only time I did it. And I got called to a meeting with Andrei Sitsko, the Russian guy who I had met and a woman from the Wild Salmon Center and Andrei the outfitter, he was partners in outfitter. I walk into the meeting and he hands me some papers and he says,

look at clause 12 of the contract. And there’s the contract for my boss in the United States. And I look at the contract and I read it it says, for every complaint voiced by a client about service, food, transportation, do, do, do, guiding equipment.

Jason Elkins (01:13:08.241)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:13:27.823)
Jan and Coots Limited, which is a Russian outfitter, will reimburse Katmai Lodge Limited $1,000 per complaint. That’s what I said. I said it back then. And Andre looked at me says, does this guy think we’re idiots? And he said, he thinks everyone is an idiot. And so

Jason Elkins (01:13:31.366)
Right?

Jason Elkins (01:13:37.88)
Wow.

Jason Elkins (01:13:49.692)
Okay, yeah.

William Blair (01:13:51.905)
we end up having a couple groups come in that were supposed to be steelhead fishing and they didn’t do it so Tony set up this thing where we went and did an exploratory float trip on a river on the west coast and to look for steelhead and they land us on the gravel bar it’s me another American Ryan Lampers and Sasha the one big Russian guy and they land us on his gravel bar and

Before we had our three rafts pumped up, the guys, were all experienced fishermen. They had caught and landed a hundred rainbows. One gravel bar, big ones, know, three, four, five pounders, every cast. That day, those guys easily hooked 600 rainbow trout. Easily.

Jason Elkins (01:14:44.476)
Jeez.

William Blair (01:14:45.753)
There were six or eight of them fishing. was easily that many. Everywhere you threw the fly, you could drop it off the side of the raft, a two foot long rainbow trout would come grab it. It was like nothing I had seen at the other place, at the other river, while they were bigger, you catch four five a day, per guess. This place, and we went back the next week.

Jason Elkins (01:14:55.014)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

William Blair (01:15:09.387)
And the next week was my 31st birthday and we did an overnight float with Marne Hornblower who was 89 years old and was there with her son and her grandson. And we had plenty of guides and plenty of people and they told me to fish on my 31st birthday and I landed exactly 100 rainbow trout on a mouse fly on the surface that day on my 31st birthday. And it’s the most miserable day of fishing I’ve ever had.

Literally the helicopters running and I’m trying to catch number 100 and they’re on the helicopter, right and That’s it. That’s 1998 and this leads me into what ended up actually happening Tony Sarp that same guy my boss in the United States God rest his soul. He’s a smart guy and He got caught ripping off the Russians for one guest per week all season long

Jason Elkins (01:15:43.782)
William Blair (01:16:09.525)
Anatoly Kovalenkoff, the Russian owner of Perga and Crutchett Helicopter Company and Sockjoy Furrier Company is a big mucky muck told me that day I was leaving he said tell your boss never to contact us again we’re done and so I went back

and collected my last check. I knew I wasn’t going to work in Alaska. I had seen the promised land. had seen the Kolpakova. I mean, that overnight float, we hooked a thousand rainbows in two days. It was crazy insane. And I was like, wow, and a crystal clear river. So I went home, I get home and I quit my job.

Jason Elkins (01:16:33.456)
Yeah, yeah.

William Blair (01:16:53.909)
at Katmai Lodge. had met my current wife. having our 25th wedding anniversary. I met her at Katmai Lodge in a few weeks.

Jason Elkins (01:17:01.884)
Wow.

You might want to quick call it or your current wife if you want to keep her around another 25.

William Blair (01:17:08.079)
Yeah, that’s a joke I saw on TikTok. I don’t know. That was a Freudian slip. so we backpacked all over, yeah, we backpacked all over Peru and Bolivia for two months. And then…

Jason Elkins (01:17:14.364)
I’ve done that too. I’ve done that too and now I’m divorced. So take my advice.

William Blair (01:17:24.085)
I’m looking for a job. moved to Bend, Oregon. She got a job, a good job immediately. And I’m looking for something. And a friend that had worked over there and had been my boss in 97 said that there was a guy who was interested in running fishing trips on the Copacovia River, the river where we caught a thousand, hooked a thousand trout in two days. I was like, really? And he, yeah, he’s from Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

So I met him in Salt Lake and we struck up a partnership and he introduced me to Victor Reberkopf, my current and still since then business partner, Russian business partner. And we ran for three years, we ran a jet boat camp on that river, the Kolpokova. And that’s when I started doing lots of sports shows. think I did 12 sports shows that year.

Jason Elkins (01:18:14.3)
Is that when best of Kamchatka was coined? Not yet. Okay. Okay.

William Blair (01:18:16.867)
Nope, that was Kamchatka Expeditions. That was Kamchatka Expeditions. And you know, most people when they hear these stories go, but I’m not the only one. There’s lots of these stories. I can tell you about recent ones.

After three years of building that company from 16 fishermen to 52 to 103 anglers by 2001, my American partner and my two of my guides who had worked for me the first and second year but wouldn’t work for me again, I wouldn’t hire them again, got together and decided they’d like my money and Victor’s money more than I liked it. They started a new company with my money and Victor’s money called Russian Rivers.

And Victor Reberkopf sued him in Denver court in 2001. And Victor and I tried to get something back together, but I think we both were just unreasonable, kind of burnt. And I called the fly shop to give the owner of the fly shop the business about something I heard he said to one of my clients. And he offered me a job before the phone call was over.

William Blair (01:19:33.391)
Yeah, well, had to, other than we had to move from Bend to Redding, California, which, unless you’re a fisherman, it’s a downgrade.

Jason Elkins (01:19:38.149)
Well, yeah, I’ve been to both places. Actually, before I ended up going to Orvis, I had went and met with Mike and Pat Vandergast at the fly shop. So you ended up going to the fly shop, which for those listeners who don’t know, just real quick, what is the fly shop and what were you doing there?

William Blair (01:20:03.341)
So he hired me to come on and be his director of Chemchakka Travel. And I had actually met him steelhead guiding on the Sopa Chinaya three years prior. He had brought a group over and…

So he wanted me to come in and fire up their Kamchatka program. They weren’t doing the steelhead anymore because that all fell apart when Katmai left Kamchatka, but they were doing a week or two maybe at the Zhyponovka where I had been head guide. And, and, and I also had my, you know, contact with Victor Reberkauf, my partner who did the Kolpakova River with me. So he hired me and,

Jason Elkins (01:20:36.124)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:20:50.547)
They had sent eight people there. We also brought in the Wild Salmon Center got involved out of Seattle, which is a 501C3 that does lots of great salmon conservation work all in the Pacific Northwest.

And they had a contract with the Sadaka River guys and we all got together and I had the horsepower of the fly shop behind me and my knowledge and I knew these guys and I had been over there now for five years at that point. Kind of my way around and had good relationships with everybody. And with the guy, Anatoly on the Zhipanava, the guy who told me to tell my boss never come back.

loved me. I made three of his jet boats work in 1998 that they couldn’t get to run in 97. Just lucky that’s a whole story in of itself. so they had sent eight people in 2001 to Kamchakka. By 2003 we sent 260.

people to Kamchatka to a bunch of different programs. And I started doing lots of exploratory. I kind of cooked that idea up when I was working there of doing exploratories that were funded by anglers. And so we started looking at all these rivers and I mean, I sold the trips, I told them.

It could be a total disaster. I don’t know yet. We haven’t fished that river, you know, but I had contacts with Chem Chatnero, Chem Chat-Rivad with the fish guys through the Wild Salmon Center. So we, they all knew, you know, the, there’s rainbows in that river. There’s Dolly Varden only in that river. So we had lots of information. and

William Blair (01:22:42.287)
So we started expanding and doing exploratories and in 19 in 2003 I had a group of exploratory guys and one of my favorite keepsakes I’ll ever own in my life and We had done an exploratory with some biologists that I knew on a river called the Rissotna and then Victor So these guys when they get these concessions, there’s competition

And so you have to show some usage if you want to get the permits, etc. like that. And so he wanted to take me from the Resotient Attributary to the Main Stem Levia River. I just fished the other ones. we, he and I had an argument, reasonably heated argument after all that we had the new guys coming in, going to do an exploratory.

Victor wanted us to go to the Levia River. I didn’t want to go to it. I had just been there the week before. I knew what it held. It was really, really good.

Jason Elkins (01:23:47.802)
It’s hard to call it an exploratory trip when you were there last week.

William Blair (01:23:52.815)
Well, we were going to do the upper different fork of it. 90 % of it would have been exploring, but you know, that, that system, you know, it’s a system, know, kind of what’s there. It was very good and it had good rainbow trout in it. A lot of dollies.

Jason Elkins (01:23:55.44)
Okay, all right. Yeah.

William Blair (01:24:08.451)
pretty good grayling fishing, but it wasn’t like mind blowing river. And so that night after those guys went to bed, I’m up with Victor and the pilots and everybody and, I get out the map and Victor’s drawn on the Levia river. And I, and I had remembered Victor had told me about 1999. He had stopped on a river up North called the Azranaya.

and that he had a bear hunter with him who had a spinning rod and he jumped out and was catching trophy rainbow every cast. I’m like, I want to go there Victor tomorrow. we can’t go there. Can’t go there. Well, I don’t, why not? Well, we don’t have the permit. It’s inside of Kerr missile testing zone. It’s a restricted military polygon. They said, I don’t care. We can go.

I don’t know. I kept drawing on Nasraniya. He kept drawing on the levya. I kept drawing in marker, in pen, ballpoint pen, back and forth for like two hours because they’re stubborn. I am too. And finally he says, okay, we’ll do it. We’ll try. Which is what he would say. We’ll try. And so the next morning we actually had kind of low weather and we stopped.

Jason Elkins (01:25:25.53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:25:31.687)
on the resocean of the one which is going north towards Azranaya and stopped on the resocean and wait for the fog to lift and then we went up and we’re going straight north over you know the a bunch of rivers that I’ve fished since that time and we come over the hill and we’re on the deck

flying over the hill and we come over this crystal clear beautiful giant river and I can see fish of all varieties everything right under the we land the helicopter and again it was like 500 fish that day we hooked

Rainbow trout when I talk fish, I mean rainbow trout that doesn’t count the Dolly Varden the grayling and the chrome bright silvers that were there that were all you know up to 20 pounds silvers crazy big silvers. I was totally

completely blown away because the grayling are all 1920 inch grayling which are close to world records. Dollies to 30 inches that first day I was like wow and rainbows that were huge 25, 26, 27 inch rainbows big ones lots of them as many as you could catch it was crazy and we camped below this little creek that first night and the next morning I caught a two-foot rainbow in that little creek that you could jump across and I walked up on the bluff above

there overlooking the river and Sasha and Drushin was with me and I told him I said this is where we should build a camp and we did right there that ran for 16 years on Azranaya we ran eight people a week with four jet boats every day.

Jason Elkins (01:27:12.666)
Yeah. OK. wow. OK.

Jason Elkins (01:27:23.132)
What was the first, cause you obviously have a tremendous amount of experience and I know that we could like every season was new and a lot of cool things and you’re a fisherman, am I, and we can tell fishing stories. Both of us probably tell fishing stories all day, but I’m curious. Like when was the first season that you did or that you kind of shifted a little bit instead of just completely focused on Kamchatka?

William Blair (01:27:36.259)
cows come home.

Jason Elkins (01:27:49.028)
And then you’ve got, mentioned the Bahamas, you mentioned Brazil. So I want to touch on those as well and kind of give me an idea how you transitioned into that.

William Blair (01:27:56.614)
Well, so for all that time, and like I said, I have a unique self-designed business program all that time. I’m over there doing Chemtchatka and then in 2018, my neighbor here in Boulder, Colorado, contacts me and says, Hey, the guy down on Ragged Island in the Bahamas once

He actually contacted me in like 2016. Wants to open up the lodge that they had run for a year and a half or two years with a booking agent out of Wyoming. And he, but that didn’t work out. Like I said, crazy stuff happens in the fishing business and that didn’t work out. This guy wants to open it and it took us like two years before I said, let’s just go do it. We rode the mailboat from NASA for three and a half days down.

To Ragged Island. There’s nothing there. It was right the year after Hurricane Irma blasted it There’s like ten people on the island. Maybe ten people. We go out we’re out fishing for 20 minutes and he lands a legitimate ten pound bonefish Biggest bonefish I’ve ever seen

Jason Elkins (01:28:49.03)
Jeez.

Jason Elkins (01:28:58.149)
Wow. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:29:08.348)
Wow, that’s huge. Yeah, that’s huge.

William Blair (01:29:12.461)
And we saw three or four others on that same flat that same first evening out that were all that big or bigger. And I was like, wow.

Jason Elkins (01:29:21.478)
But it’s a three day boat ride. How did you make that work?

William Blair (01:29:24.035)
Yeah. So, you know, one of the great things about staying in a business a long time is I have a lot of connections with a lot of, you know, really good people. And so in 219.

A group of young guys went down with me in May and we made a movie that was in the F3T fly fishing film tour in 2020, right before COVID. And at the same time, I had a magazine article come out in Northwest, Southwest and Eastern Fly Fishing Magazine, which is now American Fly Fishing Magazine. you know, no one’s been to Ragged Island.

Jason Elkins (01:29:50.3)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:30:06.415)
And we didn’t know, we knew there were big bonefish there. There were some schools. So in 2019, when we went back, we didn’t really have a good boat to look around. caught a permit and we caught a lot of bonefish out of a couple schools that we know quite intimately now. And so we had an article and a movie. So lots of people wanted to go. So I said, well, this is the same thing I’m doing in Kempchak. I just make a calendar and start selling weeks.

Jason Elkins (01:30:29.564)
helps.

William Blair (01:30:36.369)
we hired a charter which is just one of the loveliest stories ever in my entire career how that’s worked out and we take people once a week there’s guys there right now

Jason Elkins (01:30:49.648)
And there’s a, cause there’s an airstrip on the island.

William Blair (01:30:52.431)
Yeah, so there’s a 4,000 foot paved strip on the island. And that’s about it. I mean, there’s 28 people that live on island now. My partner’s eighth generation, excuse me, seventh generation, his kids are eighth generation Ragged Islanders. His wife’s from Staniel. You know, we bought some flat skiffs. We’ve actually are replacing one of them now.

We have had different guides over the last few six years. We’re six years in now and it’s been absolutely lovely. And I have basically the same exact… So I didn’t quite finish the story. So I’m working at the fly shop. I decided it was my time to leave. My Russian partner, Victor, wanted to leave and just work with me. So he actually broke off the relationship and I ended up leaving the fly shop and working with Victor again, direct.

they started the best of Kamchatka. But then that morphed into the best of the wild with the addition of Ragged Island on the Bahamas. And, you know, that has been, it’s really worked out great. Again, small, we take four people a week. There’s a little lodge there, everyone gets their own room. We have two skiffs, we have an extra skiff and we go out and fish flats for permit, bones, some of the biggest bonefish.

Jason Elkins (01:31:49.51)
That’s when that started, okay.

Jason Elkins (01:31:56.389)
Okay.

William Blair (01:32:16.705)
I’ve ever seen. We had a guy the second year catch a 14 pound bonefish, which is…

Jason Elkins (01:32:23.174)
Now are you, that’s, yeah, that’s ridiculous. Are you running a year round?

William Blair (01:32:28.119)
No, no, we do like this spring, we have 12 groups and then we have four groups in the fall. So consecutive weeks. Yeah, we avoid the storm season and not, you know, I like to start kind of early in February because those giant monster bones like that cool water and they’ll be up on the flats. And you know,

Jason Elkins (01:32:34.054)
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. All right. So you can avoid the storm season and any issues that might come up with that.

Jason Elkins (01:32:50.084)
Yep.

William Blair (01:32:53.455)
I said one of the coolest things was over the charter. ended up with Draco Chamberlain, great guy. He owns a company called Graceful Wings out of Staniel K. Super great guy. And my partner, Fico Wallace, seventh generation Ragged Islander, he runs Bahama Power and Light for the island for 25 years. And he’s

Jason Elkins (01:33:11.92)
Okay, yep. All right. Which is probably a big generator somewhere out back of his house or.

William Blair (01:33:18.623)
there’s a story there, but they’re just now fixing the giant solar array they put in after Hurricane Irma that ran for a few years but then had a problem. they just, I think they’re working on it next week.

Jason Elkins (01:33:32.539)
Okay.

William Blair (01:33:32.591)
But he, you’re right, a giant generator. He’s a diesel mechanic, he’s an outboard mechanic, and he’s an auto mechanic. He could do anything. He’s awesome, talented, super bright guy. And I can’t believe how lucky I got. And his wife and his daughter Cook, and their other daughter Helps, and it’s a family affair. It’s so cool. And his son, the first year, 2021, was at guiding force. Super talented, good looking.

Jason Elkins (01:33:38.972)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:34:01.335)
talked to anybody really worldly young man 21 years old has worked with lots of he’s made a lot of money up taking tourists to the swimming pigs on staniel k and all that up there and he was out with two of our our guests

back in 2021 and a plane flies over and Masio, Masio Wallace is his name. says, that’s a Cessna 402 with twin blah, blah, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And these two guys that are with them look at them and they had flown their own plane to the island. And they look at them and they said, hey, how do you know so much about that plane? We’re both instructors. We don’t know that much about that plane.

He says, well, I have a dream to be a pilot. I’m a young Bahamian guy. I’d love to be a pilot. It’s a great job. And they said, well, what are you doing about it? And he said, well, right before COVID, I sent $10,000 to a flight school in Florida. And they went out of business during COVID, and I lost all my money. So I’m starting to save money again to go to flight school. And those guys said, OK.

That’s not a great story. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to sponsor you and we’re going to bring you to Dallas. We’re going to get your own apartment. We’re going to put you through flight school. And he got rated for everything. And for now, for the last three and a half, four years, he’s who flies our custom. My partner’s son is the pilot of the plane and he flies all over Bahamas all the time. And those guys.

Jason Elkins (01:35:33.804)
That is so cool. That is so cool.

William Blair (01:35:37.227)
never asked for a thing just did that out of and they changed his life forever yeah yeah yeah it’s super cool yeah yeah yeah and Macio’s a great kid always on time super good pilot smooth and I’ve flown with a lot of pilots he’s good yeah

Jason Elkins (01:35:43.296)
yeah. That is, that’s a great story. Wow. Wow. That’s a, that’s really, really cool.

Jason Elkins (01:35:56.677)
Yeah. Yeah, I’m sure you have. That’s a super, super cool, cool story. Do you want to touch on what you’re doing in Brazil? I don’t want to miss anything, but I do want to touch on what’s going on in Brazil.

William Blair (01:36:07.983)
so Brazil is, you know, Brazil is a fascinating thing to me. Because I went down there and I had the opportunity to go to these places that are, you know, two were untouched.

One hadn’t been fished in like a decade. The other had never been fished. We ran a season last year on the one that had never been fished. We probably missed the mark because of going too early with water. It was too high. And the other one, it’s interesting. is, know, Brazil is a little bit tougher nut to crack because it’s a really well-developed sport fishery. And so there’s lots of fingers in the pie.

and I have the ability to send people to a bunch of different places but I haven’t really, you know, sunk my teeth in totally with a place that is the same level of trust between ownership.

Jason Elkins (01:37:19.004)
And you have some experience with that over the years. So I can understand why you walk into that. I do want to ask you because you mentioned it’s well developed. I’ve been to Brazil twice, once to a lodge that catered really to mostly Americans from North America. But yeah, exactly.

William Blair (01:37:21.037)
Yep. Yep.

William Blair (01:37:37.017)
What boa?

Jason Elkins (01:37:39.567)
And the other one that I did was more of a remote, you know, kind of one of those things where they’ve got the boat and pull the cabins behind it. Yeah. Yeah. So there’s I think there have been a couple over the years and it’s been a long time. But when I went on that one, it was almost all Brazilians, like all the guests. And I it was a totally different experience, not in a bad way. But I’m thinking that there’s just there’s a lot of people that live in Brazil that I think go on fishing trips. So when you say it’s really developed, is that part of the issue? Is there’s just a lot more Brazilians fishing there?

William Blair (01:37:45.901)
Yeah, yeah,

William Blair (01:38:02.851)
Yeah.

William Blair (01:38:07.631)
I guess so, but you know the one thing I learned in 11 different locations is you really don’t want to mix gear and fly guys together.

Jason Elkins (01:38:18.88)
Well, that was the other. I said they were Brazilian. I did not mention they were all spin fishermen and I was the one guy with the fly rod. And none of them spoke English. It was a weird week. Yeah.

William Blair (01:38:24.077)
Yeah, they’re throwing these big wood choppers. You can’t compete. You can’t compete with them and the big fish.

put down and they won’t bite. And I’ve been to those and I’ve been to others. so, you know, fly only for the fly angler of North America. That’s why Aguiboa where you said you went is fly only, I guess for like 99 % of the time. and so those fish behave differently than if they’ve got a big wood chopping spinner thing coming over their head all day every day. and peacock bass do, they don’t like pressure.

Jason Elkins (01:38:44.176)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

William Blair (01:39:01.457)
And so I think fly fishing is lower impact kind of thing. So there is some of that and you know, it just one of the major issues and I’ve seen it in the Bahamas. I’ve seen it in Kamchatka. You see it anywhere you go as an American. When you step off the plane and they can’t help themselves, they think, oh, this guy’s probably pretty wealthy.

Right? He’s got some money to throw around. That’s not who I am. That’s not my life. I’m a working guy. Right?

And, so I’m not a trust fun guy. don’t have rich parents. you know, I work and you know, it’s all done with the customers and

You know, I think of all the places I’ve been, the Brazilians want it to happen faster than it takes to develop a program. I mean, sometimes you get lucky. Like I got lucky in the Bahamas because I had F3T and a bunch of magazine articles. So I had a magazine article just this past fall about the place we ran last year in Brazil, beautifully written article with my photographs, and I got virtually no traction on it.

And I think that’s because the market is much more saturated. And it’s a big trip, right?

Jason Elkins (01:40:27.45)
Yeah, it’s a

Well, that’s the thing is there’s, I mean, I remember when I was running the travel at Orvis, was, you know, it was much easier to have a conversation with somebody about going on a bonefishing trip in the Bahamas or a trip to Montana or even a trip to Chile or Argentina, Patagonia. The Brazil stuff.

William Blair (01:40:44.493)
Yep. Yep.

And whereas I think Brazil, like in my experience, we sold Brazil trips for a long time, but we’d get one or two people here and there that maybe would want to do it. Unless I did a group trip. And that’s when I went to Aguabó. It was literally because I just went out to all the guests that had been with me in other places and said, hey, I’m going to Brazil. Do you want to go? And they said, yes. I don’t even know if that’s because they wanted to go to Brazil, honestly. But that was, yeah, yeah, it’s different.

William Blair (01:42:23.757)
Yes.

William Blair (01:42:34.711)
Yeah, and that’s true. And like last year, we did five weeks and I think three of them were people that have been with me to Kamchatka, been with me to Bahamas, and they’re like group trips. You know, and like…

I guess Kamchatka and the Bahamas is sort of like group trips. But one of the things I learned a long time ago is I can’t be everywhere all at once. And when I was doing my three programs in Kamchatka, I would rotate through them all during the season and then do exploratories. So at any given time, and then my daughter was real little for much of that time, and I would come home for a week or two and then go back. I never get, if you can’t have, you have to have the people

who are helping you be trustworthy enough to do a great job. you know, it’s one of the things that is challenging about the host deal that makes me different though, is when I got off the helicopter in Chemchek at any one of the three programs, I was gonna be the guy running the jet boat. I was, yeah, I’m not the host, man. I’m really.

Jason Elkins (01:43:28.762)
a

Jason Elkins (01:43:45.626)
Yeah, you weren’t just the host.

William Blair (01:43:49.551)
I’m the guy who’s putting a new, you know, one of the things, a skill that I really was proud of was being able to put a bearing into a jet lower unit without a press. And the Russians taught me how to use hot boiling water to get it done. the guess will be in eating dinner and I will have guided all day and I’m out there pressing bearings, right? Not the same as a host, right?

Jason Elkins (01:44:06.673)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:44:16.828)
It’s I get it completely because when I when I was at or of us leading group trips I was the host basically I was there to just kind of make sure I was having fun and somebody to ask them questions about their day and stuff like that Where when I managed I managed to turn a flats in Belize where it was like, okay, you know all day

William Blair (01:44:35.073)
yeah, you know then.

Jason Elkins (01:44:39.962)
running around with the landscaper or the generator guy or working on the boat engines or going into town to find a certain size of screw or light bulbs or whatever. And then at the end of day, I’d still go out and meet the guests when they got back to the dock. And I’d say, hey, hey guys, was your fishing today? And it was so funny because almost to a T.

William Blair (01:44:54.147)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s been all night with them.

Jason Elkins (01:45:02.556)
every one of them would say they would tell me their fishing stories and they look at me and say, how about you? How was your fishing? What did you catch today? I’m like, oh, you have no clue what I was doing today. But and then we get a host, we get a group come in with a host and I’d be like, man, my job is to make him look great. Yep, so

William Blair (01:45:22.179)
That guy’s got a good job right there, right? And it was part of the deal why I’ve always insisted on wanting to guide if I can. Now, like in Obama’s, I can’t legally guide, but I go out all the time and I have my own little boat there. So I’m running around and doing stuff all the time. But in Chemtchek, at the Oz camp, was, I took the farthest.

Jason Elkins (01:45:34.812)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:45:46.659)
beat down river so we break the river into beats right i took what’s called the canyon beat which was the farthest one down and the most difficult jet boat driving the the probably it’s not very hard fishing but there it’s a different nature of river so you had to be a little bit more on your toes everybody got to learn it eventually because i wanted to not have to be there and i could be up at the flyout program every

Jason Elkins (01:45:49.788)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:46:13.212)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:46:16.473)
day jumping off the helicopter leading the charge there. And so for me, I do we do hosted trips all the time in Kempchadka and Alaska or Alaska we did but Kempchadka and the Bahamas. And you know, I think you hit it right on the head that the host is there to make sure the guests are having a good time. He’s Mr. Happy, even when things are tough. That’s really the host.

Jason Elkins (01:46:44.828)
He’s the one that sits down at the table with the most difficult person in the group, so nobody else has to. That’s what a trip host is for, as I learned that.

William Blair (01:46:46.157)
Best job.

William Blair (01:46:51.727)
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And I’ve had good ones and I’ve had guys, they’ve run as far away from that guy as they can, right? Or fish in front of him the next day and really get him cranked up.

Jason Elkins (01:47:03.708)
It’s or or fishing, you know, you take a group of 10 guys that don’t really know each other, maybe a few of them kind of know each other and they show up and you’ve always got one guy in the group that’s not as much fun to spend all day on the boat with.

William Blair (01:47:19.801)
Yeah, of course.

Jason Elkins (01:47:19.802)
So that is what the host, that’s what the host does. The host goes fishing with the guy that nobody else wants to go. So anybody that’s listening to this that always feels like, why does the host always want to fish with me? Now you know. Because you’re the one that nobody else wants to fish with. I shouldn’t say that.

William Blair (01:47:31.732)
and you know.

And in Kempchakka,

William Blair (01:47:44.943)
think of his name in a second but a Russian guy he’s a attorney by training and he spoke pretty good English super good jet boat driver a little older he was in his early 50s and he guided off and on a little bit at the Oz jet boat camp one of the funniest stories he said we get all types right and we have a group out of Texas and I

Jason Elkins (01:48:09.244)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:48:14.083)
guided one of them before and some of them and been before but the big group eight guys and we’re down at the boats me and Sasha and and Cody Wagner and and he says to me you know will this summer I’ve seen many high level not many high level but some high level fishermen see many many mid level fishermen today I saw ground zero

I’m like, what are you talking about? says, because we rotated. So all the guests would see a new piece of river every day with a new guide every day. And the guide had his beat. So it was like the third day of the trip. And I said, what are you talking about? said, you got him tomorrow.

Jason Elkins (01:48:54.438)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (01:49:03.351)
You’ll see.

William Blair (01:49:04.661)
Okay, so I take the guy down and I won’t do it, but he was a district attorney out of a big municipality in Texas. Smart guy, nice guy, fun guy, super good guy, but his hand-eye coordination was as bad as I’ve ever seen on somebody on a fly fishing trip. But he kind of joked about it. He was cool, but on the Azur Nile,

Jason Elkins (01:49:13.404)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

William Blair (01:49:30.721)
Not only was I guiding and I don’t know how many, how much more of this I could do, but we walked the boat down the river, the guests stay in the boat and we pick the thing apart. So no one goes swimming. Cause we’d have people constantly in the river, right? It’s not tough waiting, but it’s not easy waiting. So it’s better to walk the boat. And all I had to do was get the guy to hang the fly below the boat and let it hang there. And he’s going to catch trophy rainbows all day long. Cause I just put them right above.

Jason Elkins (01:49:42.012)
Mm-hmm.

William Blair (01:50:00.705)
I knew where there’s fish and he’d it 10 feet out of the side of the boat and it swing on around and hang at the bottom. Boom trophy rainbow and I have a whole huge folder of all these giant rainbows. I took pictures of him that day it’s ground zero folder.

Jason Elkins (01:50:17.052)
Yeah, nice.

William Blair (01:50:19.335)
Yeah, it’s funny. It’s funny. you know, just so much goes on like that, that that that is my business model. It’s different than what what, you know, when I’m in the Bahamas, I’m right there, right? Whatever needs to happen. You know, one of the things I always felt about leadership, you’ve seen the cartoons of, you know, leadership versus whatever the real leader.

Jason Elkins (01:50:47.514)
versus management or whatever. Yeah, managers, yeah.

William Blair (01:50:49.039)
Yeah, the guy who’s out in the front of the pack with the front, you know, ropes over his back. And I always felt that that’s the right way. I was always the first guy to pick up a shovel, first guy to split wood, first guy to chainsaw trees, whatever it took to make the situation right for the customer. And for the guys that I’m working with too, man, just some dude standing around giving orders, it’s wasted space.

Jason Elkins (01:50:54.118)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (01:51:09.894)
You know.

Jason Elkins (01:51:16.828)
But you also, we touched on that when you explained how you got the job in Kamchatka in the first place. When I asked you, like, how, what was the thing? It’s you were, you were demonstrating leadership, even if you’re not the boss, because you don’t have to be the boss to be a leader, right? But you were demonstrating leadership.

And something else you just mentioned reminded me of my very first job in the fly fishing business. I was self-taught, just started reading all the books by people that later on I ended up working with, but I read their books and I was just out just trying to learn stuff. And I was on the Bighorn River and I just literally just started going door to door at the shops and lodges. And I said, I will do anything. I’ll dig holes. I just want to be here in Fort Smith.

William Blair (01:51:41.603)
break.

William Blair (01:51:46.489)
for it.

William Blair (01:51:58.383)
Yeah.

Yep.

Jason Elkins (01:52:01.725)
close to the water and close to the business because I just want to learn. And the third place I went, the guy’s like, well, you know, our manager was unfortunately had passed away in a car accident at the end of last season. When can you start? know, as I bet. Yeah. So I managed. Well, it was one of those. Yeah, you’re the manager, but you’re also the only employee. You were there, you know, every morning to to introduce your the guests to the guides and

William Blair (01:52:16.847)
You want to be the manager? Here you go.

William Blair (01:52:24.111)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

William Blair (01:52:30.285)
Fashion business man.

Jason Elkins (01:52:31.206)
and sell the flies and then restock the flies and then serve breakfast because we had six rooms. So most of the time I was also cleaning the rooms. But my point on what you’re saying is that willingness to just jump in and step in. Had I shown up, I mean, I guess if I’d shown up and said, I have management experience and I’m a great fly fisherman and will you give me a job? I guess in that case, they were desperate. They probably still would have got the job. But I think it was that.

William Blair (01:52:37.487)
Wow, that’s hard work.

William Blair (01:52:58.061)
Yeah, yeah, you would probably for sure.

Jason Elkins (01:53:00.54)
But I think it’s that willingness just in my head is just to say, know what, I just want to learn the business. I’ll do anything. My family thought I was nuts. But anyway, yeah, that’s how it works out.

William Blair (01:53:06.073)
Yeah.

On their side of it, they could hire that guy, but would they get the guy who could do what you did, which was do the job? This is a crazy.

Jason Elkins (01:53:17.69)
Yeah, and I was terrified. I had no idea. was like, I’m like, I’m going to run a fly shop and a fishing lodge. And I’ve never even been with a fishing guide. I’ve I rented a drift boat once and spun in circles down the river. I, you know, but we had rental boats, we had rooms, we had all this stuff. And it was just, yeah, it was kind of crazy. But.

William Blair (01:53:33.261)
Yeah, yeah,

Jason Elkins (01:53:43.62)
It’s just that willingness to just jump in and do things, which obviously that’s how you’ve gotten to, why I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like that’s been a lot of your success. So.

William Blair (01:53:51.855)
Well, I just think it’s part of what you’re supposed to do. It just seems so natural. Just so natural.

Jason Elkins (01:53:57.958)
Yeah.

to some people, because I could also say when I got the job at Turner Flats, probably two weeks in, they had me driving the boat, the transfer boat from the island back to Belize City, some kid from Wyoming who’d only ever rode the drift boat.

William Blair (01:54:16.751)
Well, one of the issues is if you’re that guy, you should expect to get all the jobs because they’ll pile it on you. They will pile it on you for sure. Oh, this guy will do anything. And let’s just give him everything.

Jason Elkins (01:54:22.716)
You

Jason Elkins (01:54:26.748)
That’s what happens.

Jason Elkins (01:54:32.39)
I remember. Yeah, yeah. Or he just has faith in his ability to figure stuff out. So I wouldn’t just say no. I remember two months after we’d been there, I’d maybe done the trip 10 times and it was really bad weather and weird. It’s a 48 foot jet boat and I’m driving it. There’s nobody, none of the fishing guides, they all go in the night before. There’s nobody that really knows how to drive a boat, including me. And I’m up there driving the boat and it…

William Blair (01:54:38.253)
Yeah, yeah,

William Blair (01:54:48.023)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:55:01.87)
some point it’s like my I turned around and I saw my wife she’s sitting there with her life jacket on the only one on the boat with her life jacket on and all the guests are like should we get ours? I’m like no because if if your spouse does

William Blair (01:55:08.865)
I don’t blame you.

William Blair (01:55:15.991)
Yeah, yeah. Hey, you know what? If you’re not. If you’re not a little afraid when you’re doing that stuff, that’s when you get hurt and when things go awry, when the guy’s got a little fear, he’s going to pay more attention. So you survived it great. Look at the experience.

Jason Elkins (01:55:23.214)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:55:34.492)
We survived it, but I remember thinking if your own spouse partner, she was my fiance at the time, if she’s the one most scared on the boat, that doesn’t send a lot of confidence out through the rest of the people. They’re like, that’s Jason’s. So anyway.

William Blair (01:55:47.767)
Yeah. mean, it’s just the way life is one of my favorite clients of all time. And he went with me seven times to chem check a Bobby night. Just what’s so good. And he filled two weeks of season and one of the

always the second week would be like his family and dear friends. And one of the guys owned an insurance company in the town over from where I grew up. he owned an insurance company in Merrillville, Indiana. And I grew up next town over Hobart and he gets off and Tom is a super nice guy, good fisherman. And he would look at me and he say, how the hell does a guy from Hobart, Indiana end up in Kempchadka, Russia?

Right? And it was just that whole thing my dad taught us, just do it, just do it, just do it. Right?

Jason Elkins (01:56:45.794)
do it. That’s a great great for anybody that’s listening. Well we’ve discussed a bunch of things like I know and I know we could come back and have three or four more two-hour long conversations but I also want to make sure before we wrap up is there anything that I forgot to ask you really wish I had asked or anything any last-moment thoughts you want to share with with our listeners before we go?

William Blair (01:56:53.773)
Yeah, yeah.

Probably. Probably.

William Blair (01:57:11.465)
You know, I think the only thing is it’s safe to go to Kimchatka. It’s going to be an opportunity, a great experience. And you know what? If people don’t feel comfortable this year, things are going to change. Next year we’ll be there. Nothing’s going to change on our end. I’m happy to take in two years. Whatever, you know.

People want to see a really crazy, beautiful, incredible fly fishing wilderness. That’s the place, man.

That’s about the only thing. That’s my last pitch.

Jason Elkins (01:57:51.612)
Well, I get it. It’s one of those places that I always thought I would just go when I was working at Orvis and then things just changed in my world and then the guy who worked for me, you know, said, okay, Jeremy, guess you’re going. I didn’t go, but it’s still on my list.

William Blair (01:58:06.265)
He went with me.

Jason Elkins (01:58:12.636)
would be I would not hesitate if I had the financial wherewithal I would not hesitate to go right now I would go with you in a heartbeat but I’m not waiting for it I think well yeah it’s it’s just what it’s one of those places yeah well yeah I appreciate yeah yeah absolutely so

William Blair (01:58:20.576)
Everyone should know that.

Whether they go with me or not. That’s what I’ve always said.

Jason Elkins (01:58:30.394)
Alright, cool. Well, hopefully I’ll see you there or somewhere in person at some point in the future. Well, thank you so much. It fascinating conversation and I really, really enjoyed it. It’s fun catching up with a fellow angler and sharing some fishing stories. So let’s do it again soon. Alright, bye. Thank you. Alright, you too. Bye.

William Blair (01:58:34.457)
Sounds good. Thank you, Jason.

William Blair (01:58:43.725)
Yeah, thanks Jason. I really appreciate it. Have a good day.

Follow 205+ Leaders and the Stories That Shape the Adventure Travel World on the Big World Made Small Podcast

Access the stories here, or on your favorite platform; wherever you prefer.

Get Expert Interviews Delivered Directly to Your Inbox

Join the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast community and we’ll send you new podcast episodes weekly, and make sure you hear about exclusive and relevant opportunities that you won’t find elsewhere.

See how William's episode appears in search. Verified page-one result — click to search "William Blair The Best of the Wild LLC"