Guest Bio
Yvonne Halling is a hospitality business coach, consultant, and founder of Bed and Breakfast Coach, where she helps independent accommodation owners transform the way they run and grow their businesses. After spending 17 years operating her own bed and breakfast in France’s Champagne region, Yvonne evolved what began as a modest side venture into a highly profitable operation generating over €100,000 annually from just four rooms—without relying on online travel agencies.
Today, she works with hospitality entrepreneurs around the world through her B&B Money Maker Business Transformation Program, guiding them to increase revenue, reduce dependency on third-party platforms, and create more freedom in their day-to-day operations. Her clients regularly see significant growth while simplifying their workload and strengthening direct relationships with their guests.
Yvonne is a multi-award-winning hospitality professional known for her practical, results-driven approach. She is passionate about restoring independence to small business owners, helping them reclaim control of their bookings, and positioning their properties as vital hubs within their local communities. Through her work, she empowers hosts to embrace modern tools while staying rooted in authentic, human-centered hospitality.
Show Summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Yvonne about her evolution from running a small bed and breakfast in France to becoming a global coach for independent hospitality entrepreneurs. She shares how she transformed her own property into a high-performing business without relying on online travel agencies, proving that small operations can thrive with the right strategy.
The conversation dives into the growing reliance on platforms like Airbnb and Booking.com, and how that dependence can erode both profit margins and brand identity. Yvonne explains why direct bookings are essential for long-term sustainability and how business owners can regain control of their customer relationships.
She also emphasizes the importance of authentic connection in hospitality, showing how personalized guest experiences and strong ties to the local community can set independent businesses apart. This episode offers practical insights for hosts who want to build a more profitable, meaningful, and self-directed business.
Key Takeaways
- ✓ Small hospitality businesses can be highly profitable without relying on third-party booking platforms
- ✓ Direct bookings give owners greater control over pricing, branding, and guest relationships
- ✓ Over-reliance on platforms like Airbnb can limit growth and reduce margins
- ✓ Personalized guest experiences are a powerful competitive advantage
- ✓ Authentic human connection is central to memorable hospitality
- ✓ Local knowledge helps attract aligned, high-quality guests
- ✓ Streamlined operations can increase both income and lifestyle freedom
- ✓ Independent hosts play a key role in supporting local economies
- ✓ Strong marketing strategy matters more than simply being visible online
- ✓ Building a business around your own values leads to more sustainable success
What You’ll Find on Bed and Breakfast Coach
- Proven strategies to increase direct bookings and reduce reliance on third-party platforms
- Business transformation programs designed specifically for B&B and small accommodation owners
- Practical marketing guidance tailored to the hospitality industry
- Tools to improve guest experience while simplifying operations
- Coaching and mentorship for building a more profitable and enjoyable business
- Insights into positioning your property as a hub within your local community
Learn more about Bed and Breakfast Coach and connect with Yvonne at:
https://bedandbreakfastcoach.com
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Podcast Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated on recording, and has not been edited by a human. It may contain lots of mistakes, crazy words, and stuff that makes no sense. The host and the guest are not responsible for the accuracy of the transcript.
Jason Elkins (00:01.096)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back here today and super excited to have my guest. I’ve got Yvonne Halling. She’s the founder of bedandbreakfastcoach.com, which works with clients to support them worldwide. So Yvonne, I’m so happy to have you here. This is exciting.
Yvonne Halling (00:22.626)
Thank you Jason, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Jason Elkins (00:26.28)
Yeah, it’s gonna be a fascinating conversation. It’s a little different than some of the guests we have on here that are more of the tour operators, but we have had conversations with some folks in the space that work with tour operators. You work specific, well, I don’t wanna make any assumptions. You’re gonna tell us, but you work with people that maybe are not necessarily adventure tour operators, but the conversation impacts a lot of people that listen to this because a lot of them travel, a lot of them find themselves in places.
Some of them may have facilities that you would help them kind of take to the next level. And I’m personally interested because I’ve been traveling full time for four and a half years. And the last time we spoke, said, oh, I have so many questions after staying in probably a hundred to 200 different, you know, kind of that Airbnb type of place. So I’ve been chatting for a while. I really want to first of all, share with our listeners, you know, what your perspective is of what you do, why you do it.
Yvonne Halling (01:09.902)
You
Jason Elkins (01:25.876)
Kind of the 30, 60 second elevator pitch. And then we’re going to dig much deeper into it over the course of the conversation, I’m sure.
Yvonne Halling (01:32.783)
Yeah, certainly, certainly. So the potted version then is that I ran a bed and breakfast business in the Champagne region of France for 17 years. And I opened it in 2000 before the internet as a hobby business, a side thing, while my husband was working for a little champagne company that you might have heard of called Moet & Chandon.
Jason Elkins (01:55.943)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (01:56.907)
So I was home alone with our two girls in the French countryside and I decided that running a bed and breakfast was the best way for me to occupy myself and meet some interesting people because we have traveled quite a lot and I love to meet new people. So it went well for several years and we loved it and we did it when we wanted and when we didn’t want to do it we didn’t do it. So it’s very much an off on thing and not
Jason Elkins (02:15.412)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (02:26.8)
making very much money at all. weren’t in it for the money. And then everything changed in 2008, 2009. I don’t know if you remember the global financial meltdown. And so we went through a period of a lot of turmoil, lost a lot of money financially. We’re in trouble emotionally as a family. And so one day with the bailiffs at the door and the gas cut off, I decided that I needed to
Jason Elkins (02:36.264)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (02:56.78)
grow that business. It had suddenly become our main source of income for our family.
Jason Elkins (03:01.8)
Got it.
Yvonne Halling (03:03.182)
And so I decided that they weren’t going to take my house and I was going to make this work. And so I set about it and I watched a lot of stuff online and I listened to a lot of stuff online because the online world had come on stream by that time. And so in 2010, I set up my own website, rudimentary website, and within two years I was making 100,000 euros a year from making less than
10,000 as a hobby without booking.com or Airbnb and I think that’s quite unique in this space and then I won a well-known in my world a well-known online marketing award.
Jason Elkins (03:34.6)
Wow, wow.
Jason Elkins (03:39.124)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (03:50.62)
Hmm
Yvonne Halling (03:50.863)
And that, and they sent, the company that awarded me the award, sent a film crew over to my home in Champagne in France to film me. And that little film that they made of me, which is only four minutes long, kind of made me a bit famous online. And so people started asking me, you know, what are you doing? How did you do that? You know, how did you go from less than 10,000 a year to making over 100,000 with just four rooms?
Jason Elkins (04:09.342)
Dumb.
Yvonne Halling (04:20.816)
four rooms and no online travel agents. And so I started helping people because they were asking me and then I put all of my knowledge into my programme, which I still teach to this day because it’s based on principles, not trends or tricks or tips. It is a foundational piece of training that I believe everybody in this space needs in one way or another.
Jason Elkins (04:21.79)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (04:48.302)
So I put it into my program, which has evolved and morphed over time. It’s called the B &B Moneymaker Business Transformation Program, and it has been responsible for masses of growth, with my clients, double, triple incomes, and lots more besides, over the past 10 years since I started it. So that’s the potted version. That’s where we are today.
Jason Elkins (05:09.172)
Very, cool. I was expecting I help people that have homes with extra rooms. No, that was great. I love that you got into the story behind it because that’s such an important part of it. And really, that’s what this conversation is going to be. So we’re going to go back even further to before you were in Champaign and to kind of figure out how you got from really where you started to kind of where you are now.
And I have so many questions just based on what you said when I look out at the landscape of you know that Airbnb So many things I want to ask I’m trying to figure out the right timing I’m gonna ask you this one now I’m gonna ask you this one now because if I don’t I won’t be able to get it out of my head it feels like The term Airbnb has come to represent a whole industry
I started this, I said that I’ve stayed in probably 100 to 200 Airbnb. Well, it wasn’t all Airbnb. You know, they were booked on other platforms as well, but I have this story in my head of what it is to me. And since you got started in this, before all of that stuff really was popular, you’ve got a different, potentially a different take on it. So is it okay to say Airbnb is to get, do you, do
Do the hairs on the back of your neck stand up when people start talking about, you’re an Airbnb coach. Tell me more. Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (06:33.268)
afraid so I’m afraid I’m afraid it does yes I have a I have a lot to say about this so yes so so what do you want me to talk about first the Airbnb thing or how I got into this so I’ll have a backstory as well have a backstory as well okay Airbnb thing
Jason Elkins (06:39.892)
I suspect you do. That’s why I wanted to ask.
Jason Elkins (06:49.896)
Well, we’re gonna, okay.
Well, we’re going to get into the backstory. Let’s just touch on the maybe the the the inflaming part of people using the term Airbnb. How did our culture come to the point where we refer to every bed and breakfast as an Airbnb? We assume they’re all on Airbnb. So let’s just touch on that a little bit and then we’re going to go back into your past.
Yvonne Halling (07:13.846)
Yes, so haven’t they been clever? What a clever move on their part, To have co-opted that term, bed and breakfast, B and B. To make it a verb now. A bit like Google, but Google is a verb. And they’ve done something really genius, quite genius in fact, in that they have given…
everybody and anybody and their dog the opportunity to create a side income right that’s really the the core message of their business you can just rent out your spare room you can rent out your cabin you can rent out your shed you can rent out your boat you can rent out your your granny’s apartment right and just create an extra income right
Jason Elkins (08:04.116)
Hmm?
Yvonne Halling (08:05.782)
And that’s great. I’d have no problem with that, but it’s not hospitality. That’s not hospitality. That’s not what hospitality is about. Because those people, who wouldn’t want to create a side income, especially in the world right now? But those people who do that aren’t interested in meeting the guests.
Jason Elkins (08:10.622)
Right, right, right, right.
Yvonne Halling (08:30.134)
They aren’t interested in interacting with them. There’s a lot of key entry, anonymous hosting. I use the term loosely. And you must have seen this with your hundred or so, you know, stays in during your travels. You must have seen various levels of hospitality where some of it doesn’t exist at all. In some instances, there’s no hospitality. And in some instances, there’s like a level of hospitality. But these people are not professional.
Jason Elkins (08:46.568)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (09:00.064)
professional hosts. They are regular people wanting to create a side income.
Jason Elkins (09:02.654)
I would say.
Jason Elkins (09:08.146)
Right? I would say the average hospitality of what I see is average is maybe I see them when I get there because they want to hand me the key and that and that’s because they don’t want to put a lock box out front. I often wonder. I’m like, honestly, I sometimes wonder like, wouldn’t this be a lot easier for everybody if you just put a lock box out front?
Yvonne Halling (09:20.492)
Right, right.
Jason Elkins (09:31.24)
because if it’s all you’re gonna do is hand me the key and show me where the refrigerator is and where the toilet is, I can figure that out. Yeah, that’s the average. And then, but then I’ve got others that like actually like want me to eat breakfast with them and like are like my new best friends and wanna take a walk and show me around the neighborhood. And it always shocks the crap out of me when that happens. So, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (09:40.299)
Exactly.
Yvonne Halling (09:49.773)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (09:56.121)
that that even exists, right? But that’s what professional hosts do.
Jason Elkins (10:01.129)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (10:01.554)
That’s the real hospitality. The people who like people, who love people, who love showing them, sharing their local knowledge and showing them around the neighbourhood and the best places to see and the best place to see the sunset and the best place to eat in town and the best thing that you need to eat from their menu at the best place to eat. And all of that local knowledge, that encompasses, in my view, professional hosting.
Jason Elkins (10:29.086)
But you know what comes up in my mind is there’s a lot of, there’s different types of travelers, right? It’s not just different types of hosts. And the kind of the Airbnb model or what I think of it is where it’s, you know, you self check in that type of thing. You don’t really have any hospitality, but you know what the truth is?
Yvonne Halling (10:36.799)
yes, yes.
Jason Elkins (10:51.22)
There’s a lot of travelers that actually don’t want to interact with people. They like, this is great. I don’t have to meet the host. The host isn’t going to be checking in on me every day. They don’t want to clean the room every day. I just want to get my room and be left alone. So that’s not the audience I suspect for your clients. Those are not the people they should be chasing.
Yvonne Halling (10:54.902)
Yeah. Yes.
Yvonne Halling (11:14.26)
No, and I understand that there are, I mean, there are customers for everybody, right? There are customers for different levels of service and for price points as well.
The people that I can help the best are what I call the professionals who want to build a sustainable business, because you can’t build a sustainable business out of that Airbnb thing for several reasons. I’m coming from the host side now and we’ll come from the guest side in a second because there’s a piece there as well. But from the host side, you can’t build a business out of that Airbnb model that will sustain you and your family. You can’t rely on it because it’s not yours. You’re on a platform.
you are essentially an employee of that platform where they’re going to take a cut of your wages, whatever you want to call it, you’re going to do all the work, you’re going to do the cleaning, you’re going to handle all the damages and stuff like that and Airbnb are going to take the commission, right, they’re going to take a cut of that and they own the guest relationship so you cannot contact those people again. You just have to wait until Airbnb feed you, basically.
Jason Elkins (12:17.075)
Well…
We, I’m curious about, I get that. You know what I hear? That’s probably relatable. I suspect a lot of our listeners are, you know, the Airbnb concept is relatable. But for me, it relates to like, the comparison is Uber. Like you’re an Uber driver. How you’re never going to get, I don’t know how to say get rich, but it’s not sustainable. I mean, there’s people out there that drive. Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (12:35.852)
Yes! Yes!
Yvonne Halling (12:43.66)
You don’t need to get rich, right? It’s not about getting rich, it’s about building something you own. Right?
Jason Elkins (12:48.712)
you own because if you’re an Uber driver and you’re working 50 hours a week, 60 hours a week driving way more than you probably should be for everybody’s safety and then Uber, you know, you have an accident and Uber takes you off the platform, you’re done. Or Uber, yeah, or Uber decides, you know what, let’s do a promotion and take 20 % off of all the rates today. Okay, well that impacts all the, it’s just that thing.
Yvonne Halling (13:03.85)
Exactly. You’ve got nothing. You’ve got nothing.
Jason Elkins (13:17.404)
as opposed to the difference would be somebody that starts their own transfer company. This resonates with our audience because you start your own transfer company and you work with tour operators and now you provide a van and airport shuttles and you’ve got a website, you’ve got ways that people can recommend you and call you and all that stuff. It’s basically the same thing, right? Or the comparison.
Yvonne Halling (13:22.584)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yvonne Halling (13:36.332)
Yep. Yep.
Yes, absolutely is the same thing. Yeah, absolutely is the same thing. As long as you are relying on a platform of any description, and we’re talking about Airbnb in this context, but as you say, it’s the same for Uber. It could be. It could be any platform, as long as you are relying on that platform and you’re not owning the guest relationship. That’s the key.
Jason Elkins (13:52.153)
But it could be Viator, TripAdvisor, Booking.com. It could be any of those, right? Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (14:04.384)
If you’re not owning the guest relationship, it’s not yours. Because you can’t contact them again because the platform won’t give you their contact details because the platform understands the power of the database. Right?
Jason Elkins (14:19.71)
I don’t know if I should even say this. don’t know if anybody from Airbnb is listening and they’re gonna deactivate my account, or review where I’ve stayed and go after people. But I’m kind of that guy that shows up and I book two or three nights just to see if I like the place. And then I connect, and usually, a lot of times I’m at least communicating with the host. And I’m like, hey, I think I might like to stay here a little bit longer. How should I do it? And some of them will just say, go back to the app.
and just modify your thing, whatever. And then there’s others that I connect with and have conversations. So I can see why Airbnb doesn’t want me talking to the hosts. get that. Because I booked three, yeah, I booked three nights on Airbnb and then I booked two weeks directly with the host. And I don’t know, I don’t feel like that’s a moral thing I need to work through in my head. I don’t know, but.
Yvonne Halling (14:57.4)
Sure, sure, from their point of view, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (15:04.95)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (15:16.596)
I don’t know where the conversation’s going from there, let me ask you this. Okay.
Yvonne Halling (15:19.498)
Hahaha!
it yeah no no no you go ahead you go ahead
Jason Elkins (15:27.0)
I was, I hear about like if you’re dependent on the platform, like if you just say, okay, my business model is I’m going to be an Airbnb. I’m going to get on one platform and I’m going to make the room really nice with a bunch of furniture from Ikea or wherever. And, and I think I’m going to make a bunch of money. It might work for a while.
But I guess really what I want to ask is this a marketing conversation with your potential new clients or your current clients? Is this about having your own website, your own process and then marketing? is it equally important how they manage the, I mean I know how the guest experience, I guess the experience is super important, but where do you start to get them off of the Airbnb platform?
Yvonne Halling (16:19.232)
It’s a process, right? So it doesn’t happen overnight. And if you are dependent on a platform and you’ve had enough of that because they changed the rules without telling you, they just changed the commission structure last year where the guests used to pay a percentage and the host used to pay a percentage and then they put the whole thing onto the host, right? So in alignment with other platforms, which is minimum 15 % now.
Jason Elkins (16:40.968)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (16:48.63)
And then if you get fed up with that and you find, you discover, and this happens quite often, you discover that you actually like doing this. You actually like enjoy meeting the people. And you want to move to what I would call a professional model, then it’s a process. So you don’t wanna cut off your lifeline to Airbnb or booking.com from day one.
Jason Elkins (17:16.776)
Why do you have to, I’m curious Yvonne, why do you have, because I heard you say if you find that you want to interact more with the guests, honestly the question that pops into my head is, is that a requirement? Because I’m thinking, couldn’t I just do really good marketing and have a key box out front and offer the same thing I was offering on Airbnb but marketing it myself?
Yvonne Halling (17:41.837)
That’s a great question and I’m glad you asked that because that leads into what I wanted to say earlier about the guest experience from the other end of the Airbnb model. And yes, some people don’t want to interact with other people, but hospitality in its essence is about people. It’s a relational experience, right? It’s not a technological experience. It’s not anonymous at its core.
It can be anonymous and you can still operate what I call the pro model without meeting your guests. But there has to be a human to human element connection to it. That is hospitality at its essence. And if you try to erase that completely, then I think we lose something human and quite important.
Jason Elkins (18:38.462)
Right, because from the guest perspective, if I don’t care to meet the host and I don’t care to interact, then why would I do anything other than Airbnb? It’s like, I mean, I’ve already.
Yvonne Halling (18:48.726)
Right, right. But then that comes down to, that comes down to where we are in the world right now with a big disconnection from each other, right? Because, I mean, this is a bigger conversation, but just as a little bit of perspective on this, we prefer to stare at screens than go and talk to people.
Jason Elkins (19:00.084)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (19:13.27)
you know, a lot of the time and that’s causing a huge mental health crisis, particularly amongst young people who don’t, who for some reason just don’t have the social skills or can’t take the risk of talking to another human being because they grew up with screens as a substitute for human interaction.
Jason Elkins (19:36.67)
so relevant on so many different levels. This is not a bed and breakfast conversation anymore, right? This is just, it’s such a big thing.
Yvonne Halling (19:43.629)
No, it isn’t. No, but I think it is a big thing and it’s bigger than this. It’s bigger than, and that’s why I think, I believe it’s very important for us to redefine what hospitality is, which is essentially a human to human experience. And that’s…
Jason Elkins (19:51.4)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (20:02.708)
But how do you, so going forward, if we look 10, 15 years into the future, when these younger people, and some of them are already like in the age groups where they’re, traveling and paying for their own places to stay. But when 80 % of the population is from that age group and that kind of disconnected, I’m not knocking anybody, but, but what does that mean for a bed and breakfast owner? One of your clients.
that’s thinking about what are we gonna do in 20 years when nobody’s talking to anybody or do they look at it and say what a great opportunity to reach those people that are craving it because it could go either way that conversation right.
Yvonne Halling (20:44.118)
Yes. Yes. The second. It’s a huge opportunity. It’s a huge, huge opportunity right now. Particularly in this kind of space that we’re in, if you like, in the evolution of our species and where we’re going as a species, as a humanity.
So we do have a disconnected generation. was speaking, having this conversation, oddly enough, with my eldest daughter yesterday, who’s 35, completely disillusioned with the way the world works for her and her cohort. And I believe, so if you can think about, if you can think about it like this.
Hospitality at this moment is fragmented and it has fragmented as I see it into three parts, three fragments. On the one end you’ve got big hotel chains that like Marriott’s and Hilton’s and those big chains that work with OTAs, they work with Booking.com, they work with Expedia and all of those guys, they work with Google and it’s all about heads in beds volume, turnover heads in beds. My youngest daughter works for the Mercure.
hotel group in France and she has plenty of stories about churn and heads in beds right and that’s fine let them do that and then on the other end of the of the hospitality spectrum you’ve got the Airbnb as the side income hustle people the side hustles right
And what’s happened in the middle is what I call the professional hosts like the boutique hotels, the inns in America, the B &Bs in Europe and around the world and the resorts and the boutique experience have somehow lost their place. And they have strayed into the big chain model, which is all about the price and the dynamic pricing and and let’s drop the prices because we’ve got no bookings this weekend. And then they
Yvonne Halling (22:50.518)
drifted away from centre again into the Airbnb model. well no one wants to talk to us anymore let’s put some key lock entries on key entry boxes and let’s give them an anonymous experience right and and they’ve lost their centre they’ve lost their place and what that’s done is they that opportunity I believe has created that that what they’ve done has created a big opportunity for them to get back to centre.
to get back to what I call true hospitality. The other two extremes are fine. Let them do their things. There’ll be customers for those people all of the time, but your customers are those people in the middle. And if you’re running a tour business…
as private tour business, this is especially relevant for you as well. And that, when you ask me, you know, what do you do? What would be the first step you take if you wanted to get back to that place or you wanted to get off the Airbnb model or the Booking.com model is to focus on that thing that you do really well, your unique value for a particular group of people, not for the people who want the anonymous key entry, not for the people who want to stay in big hotels, but for the people who want that person to person human
connection, experience and be really good at it.
Jason Elkins (24:07.732)
You know what’s kinda, I’m gonna say the word sucks is if you ask somebody that doesn’t know any better, you know, do you like to stay in big hotels? No, I like, you know, I kinda like more the bed and breakfast thing. And if they don’t know anybody, it’s like, well, where do I find that?
You know, and they think, Airbnb. Cause maybe they haven’t experienced enough of it or they spend time in Airbnb looking for something that looks like an actual bed and breakfast, which is ironic. so that’s, that’s the question is kind of as discover ability because if you’re, if you’ve got your bed and breakfast listed on booking.com, people go on booking.com. You know, they sort by maybe star ratings and price and they figure I’m going to get the best.
nine star whatever rating on booking for the cheapest price. And how do you compete with that if you’re trying to actually have a hospitality business that you can’t?
Yvonne Halling (25:03.84)
you don’t you can’t you can’t compete with that but you see that’s the whole point you don’t you don’t need to compete with that it’s not they’re not your market you’re the people that are searching on price are not your market and you must elevate your value right so if if you
and know that you are not for everybody. You are only for your people. And your people is defined by where you’re located, three things, interconnecting circles.
where you’re located, the reasons people come to your area specifically, and your passions and interests. And when you get all of those three things matched up, you have a little piece in the middle where the circles overlap, which I call the sweet spot. That, and those are the people that you want to attract.
Jason Elkins (26:05.716)
So how does the person listening to this, like the question in my mind is, okay, great. I know how to search by price. I know how to search by rating. I know how to search by location. I don’t know how to search by value. Help me out.
Yvonne Halling (26:19.636)
It’s not that difficult. It’s not that difficult, right? So first of all there are two places that your people are hanging out. If you’re listening to this and you’re wondering how to get started, I’m going to give you two things that you can do right now.
You can go to the TripAdvisor travel forum for your area and you will see people in there, particularly if you’re in a tourist area. You will see people in your particular travel forum for your area, if not your town, asking questions about visiting your town. There are millions of people in that forum.
millions of different forums and you can narrow it down specifically to your area or to your town and you can start answering their questions. Do not sell. Now there’s some background set up to this to make it work but this is a starting point right and you will find people in those forums asking the questions that you can answer in your sleep. Second… okay
Jason Elkins (27:26.548)
and the idea on that, if you don’t mind, we don’t need to go into the tech, the tech details, because I understand when they’re set up is…
Yvonne Halling (27:31.042)
Yes. Yes. Yes. The setup is important but just go there and find and you will find your people, right? So then you’ll know that they’re there. You know that your people are there, right?
Jason Elkins (27:45.94)
Okay. And then if you’re adding value, you’re providing value to those people is the idea. Right.
Yvonne Halling (27:51.087)
answering their questions not selling at all no selling at all right and that’s why the setup is important right the back the back setup which we can’t go into right now because it’s too technical but and this is not a how-to to do anyway but I’m just giving you two pointers right right it’s not difficult it’s it’s easier than you think right
Jason Elkins (27:59.997)
right?
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I get that. How do we hack the system? How do we hack TripAdvisor? All right, cool, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (28:15.294)
So the second thing is that when you’ve got your three interconnecting circles, where you’re located, why people are coming. So for example, if you’re located in the mountains, people are coming for hiking, they might be coming for winter sports, they might be coming for climbing or canyoning or any pot-holing, whatever, right?
If you match that with your interests, if you’re interested in those things, then you’ll have knowledge to share with them. And that will lead to great conversations on and offline, which will enrich everybody’s experience and put you in a category of one in your area. So you don’t need to compete with everybody else because the people who are interested in those things that you’re interested in, which your area already provides, is enough.
Jason Elkins (29:09.62)
And that’s why they’re coming there. now they’ve got a con… Let’s use, I don’t know, I’m gonna just Snowmass, Colorado, whatever, as an example, is if I’m thinking about going to Snowmass and I’m trying to find information and I connect with somebody in Snowmass that just seems to know a lot about Snowmass and also happens to have a bed and breakfast. Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (29:12.054)
Exactly. Exactly.
Yvonne Halling (29:17.847)
Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (29:30.444)
Yeah, but they’re not leading, they’re not leading with, you know, book a room, book a room, book a room, I’m doing a discount, you know, I’m doing a deal. You’re not leading with that, you’re leading with value. Yes!
Jason Elkins (29:40.02)
Yeah, because people ignore that. That’s just OK. Even if the platform said, yeah, go ahead and sell all you want, which I don’t think they do. But even if they did, the people wouldn’t respond to that because, just, know, real estate is an example. Like if you’re a real estate agent, I’m not knocking on my sold real estate for a while. But it’s, you know, they teach you, they train you, oh, add value to people and give them value. And you just see in social media every time somebody
says, hey, we’re thinking about moving to Colorado, know, 14 real estate agents start talking about, I’d love, yeah, let me, yeah, let me help you, you know, I’ll put you in touch with a great realtor in the area and da da da da da da da da, instead of, oh, Snowmass, Snowmass, really cool, you’re gonna love it, do you guys like to ski and, you know, have that conversation? And then you create a connection and then they just happen to find out you’re a real estate agent.
Yvonne Halling (30:16.366)
pile on, right? They pile on with their deals and discounts.
Jason Elkins (30:37.574)
you know, then they’ve got a, you’ve got a connection with them already. And it’s not about just that, that hard sell, right?
Yvonne Halling (30:44.362)
Exactly, and that word connection, that is so important. That’s so important. Now, I’m going to give, I promise, it’s hugely important, particularly in hospitality, right? Because it’s a human business, it’s relational, you know? It’s about humans.
Jason Elkins (30:50.772)
It’s hugely important. Go ahead, yeah.
Jason Elkins (30:58.792)
Yep. I hope some tour operators that are listening to this are recognizing that this conversation applies to them exactly the same.
Yvonne Halling (31:08.374)
You know, this conversation applies to any business. This is why it’s a process, I’m giving you two tips here, but the whole thing is a mindset, basically. It’s a mindset shift from selling your rooms at any price, using the hotel model or the Airbnb model, then sitting in your value and genuinely trying to help people.
Jason Elkins (31:11.764)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (31:19.07)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (31:36.769)
Right? And that works in any business. I learned this, it’s part of my backstory, I learned this from another business outside of hospitality. The second thing, let’s just, before I go to that, let me just give you the second thing, right? Once you’ve got your three interconnecting circles and you know who you are and you know who you best serve because of who you are, where you’re located, and the reasons people are coming, there are a gazillion Facebook groups.
and you are bound to find at least half a dozen around your topics. And it’s the same principle as going to the TripAdvisor Travel Forum. You join those groups and you start answering people’s questions.
it’s the same principle and of course the setup is important you know when they hover over your name you’ve got to have yourself set up properly so that they can they’re curious you know who is this person giving this great information who’s this look I think I’ll go to his profile look they’ve got a they’ve got a property and that I can stay at look here’s their website address you know
Jason Elkins (32:46.388)
Yeah, yeah, it’s…
Jason Elkins (32:51.048)
And here’s one of the cool things about this whole thing is a lot of people don’t scroll through the groups to read their own stuff. They just like to ask the same question over and over, but some people do actually go through the group and look for similar questions or whatever. And so you could respond to, you might be responding to Mary about a question she had, but then six months later, Bill can come across the thread and.
see your response so this is not necessarily one-on-one it’s not like for every contact you make you have to answer their question you answer one question and maybe 14 people will see it and think this person seems interesting like you said they they go to your profile and well that’s pretty cool yeah so
Yvonne Halling (33:32.861)
Exactly.
Yvonne Halling (33:37.795)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, this is how our minds work, isn’t it? know, somebody gives us an answer to our question or actually shows an interest in us, right? Because everybody is craving to be seen and heard, everybody in the world right now. It’s the state of the world.
Jason Elkins (33:44.318)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (33:51.666)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (34:01.948)
And you think about it, like, I think you and I have both spent enough time looking at traveling groups or groups, you know, and, and Facebook, for example, and some of the groups are kind of ruthless, right? So someone posts a question and maybe there’s 10 responses or like, why don’t you scroll through the feed? Why don’t, why are you asking this question? Why don’t you go to Google? Why don’t you know they’re kind of asses? And then, so if you’re the one.
Yvonne Halling (34:28.29)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (34:31.156)
that shows up and says, wow, you’re going to love it. Yeah. You’re going to love it here. Make sure you check this out when you’re in the area. And all of a sudden you’re like, Oh my gosh, I just made a friend by, comparison to everybody else’s. So someone didn’t tell me I’m dumb for asking. it’s like, yeah. And, or people sometimes post things on Facebook and don’t get any response. I’m like, wow, nobody even cares. Yeah. So I love it. That’s, that’s really, really, really good for any business.
Yvonne Halling (34:31.52)
Yeah being kind, being kind, yes, yes.
Yvonne Halling (34:42.558)
Exactly. Someone cares. Someone cares.
Right, right.
Yvonne Halling (34:57.996)
Right. And at this particular time, at this particular time in our evolution, right, these things are crucial. These things are like gold dust, right? Human connection has fallen off a cliff.
Jason Elkins (35:04.692)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (35:14.26)
What do you, what do you, cause the connection thing is why I started this whole podcast. I’ve been traveling. I’ve been traveling full time four and a half years in countries where I love connecting with the locals, but, honestly, sometimes I kind of stick out and it’s not always that easy. And the podcast came from my desire to have.
An interesting conversation with someone that has similar interests at least once a week. So I didn’t feel so lonely. I’m sharing everything with the listeners now. That’s a big part of why I do this. because it’s that connection and it’s been so wonderful, know, because I’m coming out looking at it from somebody that does podcasting, like, geez, if I had an Airbnb in Snowmass, Colorado, maybe I’d start a podcast in Snowmass, Colorado.
Yvonne Halling (35:41.132)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (36:02.022)
and I would interview ski instructors or people that own art galleries or restaurant people and create a connection that way without ever selling my Airbnb. don’t have to talk about the Airbnb. It’s not an Airbnb podcast. It’s a Snowmass podcast. And people figure out what you do. mean, you’ve seen my website. listening to this probably knows I do marketing stuff. I don’t make my money from the podcast.
Yvonne Halling (36:06.134)
Yes, yes exactly, exactly.
Yvonne Halling (36:20.258)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (36:30.44)
but people listen to the podcast. A lot of tour operators listen to the podcast and some of them want to hire me.
Yvonne Halling (36:33.806)
And the important thing, Jason, is that you’re enjoying yourself. Right? You are enjoying what you’re doing and that is contagious, you know? It’s infectious. And people are drawn to people who are enjoying what they’re doing. If you’re running a tour business or you’re running a hospitality business, know, enjoy it. If you enjoy it, people will enjoy you.
and then connect with you and then you know everything that you’ve just described about your snowmass hypothetical I did all of that in Champagne I had a YouTube channel you know and I went out and in because you know this is 2010 right and podcasts didn’t exist back then but you know we my husband and I
Jason Elkins (37:10.192)
Okay, yeah, YouTube’s a great example,
Yvonne Halling (37:22.326)
You know, we were on podcasts, we were in magazines, we were writing articles for other people’s magazines about Champagne, about the area, because we were in our sweet spot. And you know, you don’t have to appeal to everybody, you just need to appeal to your people.
Jason Elkins (37:30.45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (37:38.398)
Yeah, yep. Absolutely. That’s very cool. So you’ve definitely convinced me and anybody that’s listening that if I honestly like if I was just not just a tour operator, but let’s say I don’t even own a piece of property. I’m like, wow, Yvonne’s got all this really useful stuff. Have you worked with people that don’t even have a bed and breakfast? I expect you have. It doesn’t matter. Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (37:59.465)
have I have yes because these principles are universal it doesn’t matter these principles are universal right and and I mentioned about my backstory I learned all of this outside of hospitality
Jason Elkins (38:14.696)
Let’s, know what, before you touch on that, let’s start working towards that, let’s, instead of going straight to that spot, let’s go even further back because I think everybody that I’ve had conversations with, especially in this space that are interested in this type of stuff has a backstory, of course. But I want to go to where it really started. let’s go back. Where did you grow up? What was going on when you were a kid, high school age, teenager, whatever. What do you think?
happened back then that might’ve influenced where you are now.
Yvonne Halling (38:46.932)
Yeah, well a couple of things really. So my father worked for a government organisation in the UK called the Ordnance Survey and they are the government organisation that make maps.
Jason Elkins (39:02.597)
okay.
Yvonne Halling (39:03.286)
And when I was a child, yes, and when I was a child, it’s well known in the UK, and when I was a child, there was no technology, no satellites or anything. So my father, no, nothing, no internet. And my father would go out in the daytime with his team members and they would measure up the countryside, literally, and then come home at night and he would draw the maps freehand.
Jason Elkins (39:12.828)
It wasn’t Google Maps. No Google Maps, uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (39:25.448)
Huh, okay.
Yvonne Halling (39:32.877)
Incredible, right? what was really interesting about that is that as soon as he had mapped out the area that he was allotted, assigned to, we would move.
Jason Elkins (39:34.014)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (39:46.033)
wow.
Yvonne Halling (39:46.797)
Yes, so by the time I spent the first five years of my life living in a caravan with my parents while he mapped out, you know, lots of areas in the UK and then we finally got a house I think when I was about five or six years old but by the time I was 15 I’d been to nine different schools so I had to get really good at meeting new people.
Jason Elkins (40:07.22)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (40:13.044)
Just before we go any further, if somebody were to go back and listen to every episode, it’s interesting. Two of the things that come up a lot are conversations about maps and childhoods like that where you’ve moved a lot, you had to make new friends. It’s so, cause the map part comes up, usually we’re talking about National Geographic. That’s usually where maps comes up.
Yvonne Halling (40:26.934)
Really?
Yvonne Halling (40:39.02)
Right.
Jason Elkins (40:39.364)
is how many guests I’ve had on the show that used to have National Geographic maps on their walls when they were kids. Or used to like to, or used to just love to sit and flip through an atlas and look at maps and stuff. So you just brought, you just brought those two things together in a way that’s like nobody else could have. Okay, so you still like maps? Yeah. But your dad was making them, drawing them by hand. That’s where it goes to whole nother level. Because other people said their dad gave them National Geographic.
Yvonne Halling (40:45.558)
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (40:50.464)
Yeah, I love maps. I love maps.
Yvonne Halling (40:57.96)
was that kid I was that kid yeah flicking through the atlas yeah
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (41:08.998)
Your dad would sit at the table and draw them and you were moving a lot because of the map making business. Wow, that’s pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Yvonne Halling (41:11.854)
Draw them out.
Yvonne Halling (41:15.372)
Yes, yes. Only in the UK though, only in the UK. But you know, since then, mean, flicking through the atlas is just a joy, isn’t it? Yeah, I love maps. It is weird,
Jason Elkins (41:22.942)
Me too, me too, I just, love them. I don’t know why it’s weird. For me, I don’t know why. You, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. For me, it was just a thing. I just always liked the maps. So, all right, so you were moving a lot. You said nine different schools had to make friends every time you showed up at a new school, which can either break you. Some people are just totally broken by that. And it’s trauma that they never recover from. And then there’s other people that become social butterflies and…
Yvonne Halling (41:33.868)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (41:51.11)
and do things they never would have done if it wasn’t for that. So which one are you? You’re not the broken one. really? Okay. Let’s talk about that.
Yvonne Halling (41:54.681)
Both, I think. Both. It was traumatic. It was traumatic. But, you know, it teaches you to be resilient because it’s quite hard, particularly, well, I think it’s quite hard at any age, but particularly when you get to teenage years to break into an existing friendship group. That’s quite hard.
but I had to do that on a couple of occasions. And then I grew up basically and then I met my husband.
And then he, I’ve had two husbands actually, but I met my second husband and he got the, we were both working for an international duty-free drinks company in the UK. And he got the opportunity to take a job in the office in San Francisco. And so in 1989, we left the UK.
and we went to live in San Francisco and did the whole California thing. It was amazing.
Jason Elkins (43:06.918)
Yvonne, we’re good. I want to dig into that, but I also I don’t want to miss the opportunity to ask you. Other than moving around and trying to make friends and that sucks, I did that to my you and I actually have a lot of common. I had maps on the walls and was my parents reversed and I was traveling. My dad travel. I was yeah, I was probably eight or nine different schools as well, but I’m curious about you.
What did you think you wanted to do? we could go back to 15 year old you and I said, what do you want to do when you grow up? What were you thinking? Yeah, I know that’s why I had to stop you.
Yvonne Halling (43:36.457)
yeah, yeah, I was going to miss that as well and I think that’s really quite relevant actually. Yeah it’s really quite relevant because I was really good at sewing. Yes I used to, my mother taught me how to sew when I was about 11 and because everybody made their own clothes you know, your mother made your clothes in my childhood. And then
Jason Elkins (43:48.974)
okay.
Jason Elkins (43:57.362)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (44:02.702)
I grew up making clothes for myself and by the time I was about 15 I was making clothes for my friends as well, making dresses for my friends. And then I let go of that for some reason. I think in this day and age I would have applied to fashion school. But that wasn’t on the table for me back then. That wasn’t an option. So everybody went to be a secretary in my day, right?
Jason Elkins (44:10.292)
Well.
Jason Elkins (44:27.826)
Well, if you did stick, if you did stick, I guess, with sewing and fashion, but you couldn’t go to fashion school, what would that look like for a teenage girl that likes to sew? She’s working as a seamstress or something. I don’t know.
Yvonne Halling (44:41.646)
I let it go and I became a secretary. And then I carried on sewing in my spare time because I enjoyed it and that led on to it. So I stopped making clothes when we started getting Chinese imports and I got into soft furnishings and I studied a diploma which is well known in the UK called City and Guilds. It’s a well-known diploma in soft furnishings and interior design and that’s the thread I think.
Jason Elkins (44:44.797)
Okay, all right.
Yvonne Halling (45:11.436)
that led me to my B &B. Yeah. Yes.
Jason Elkins (45:15.368)
get it and soft furnishings is I don’t know exactly what that means but I’m imagining bedspreads pillows and stuff like that it’s at what soft furnishings are okay
Yvonne Halling (45:23.124)
Yes, curtains, cushions, soft furnishings, it’s things you make from fabric for the home and interior design as well. So I love a house project. I’ve done tons of house projects. I even built my own house when I was 29 with my first husband. yeah.
Jason Elkins (45:32.596)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (45:36.851)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (45:43.688)
You you said the word, there’s the thread. I love to use that. And I almost missed that and it just popped in my head again. was like, I see the thread from 15 sewing to decorating and having Airbnb with nice rooms. I suspect they were really nice rooms. Yeah, okay.
Yvonne Halling (45:52.233)
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (46:00.555)
Yes, they were full of my our houses are full of things that I’ve made. Yes, yes. And I love all that. Yeah. So that’s, but then we went to San Francisco, and we lived there for just about a year. And then from there, we went he got my husband, a second husband got the opportunity to for with a job in Tokyo. So we went there.
Jason Elkins (46:05.448)
Okay, cool.
Jason Elkins (46:27.183)
okay.
You just heading going all around the world, aren’t you? That’s cool. Yeah, very cool.
Yvonne Halling (46:31.694)
And then and then and so we lived there for four years and our two girls were born there in Tokyo Yeah
Jason Elkins (46:39.252)
Wow, what’s your favorite reflection or memory of Tokyo?
Yvonne Halling (46:45.245)
gosh.
Jason Elkins (46:46.804)
sure there’s a few. had two children. Probably not a fair question, is it?
Yvonne Halling (46:49.054)
Yeah, the giving birth was an experience that I’ll never forget. was just phenomenally good, phenomenally good. Yeah, just the Japanese are so gracious. They’re so gentle. I think at that time, I’m talking early 90s now.
Jason Elkins (46:57.778)
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (47:15.01)
1991 to 95, there were like 50,000 expats in Tokyo, 30,000 of which were American. And we used to congregate around the Tokyo Union Church, and there was a big sort of women’s group around, based in Tokyo Union Church, and that is one of my best memories of my time there. Just phenomenally inspirational women.
Jason Elkins (47:36.628)
Hmm.
Jason Elkins (47:41.876)
interesting. And presumably, I don’t I want to ask this question. I mean, you had a lot in common, presumably you had a lot in common. I suspect that a lot of these women were people that, you women that were, you know, their partner, maybe they got a job working in Tokyo. And especially if their partner did, they’re probably feeling a little bit lost because he gets to go to work.
Yvonne Halling (48:05.56)
Yes, exactly.
Jason Elkins (48:06.984)
You know, he’s engaging with probably other expats at work and the wife is like in a situation like, especially if you’ve got a family, it’s hard enough to go out and get a job and raise kids and do all that stuff when you’re in your own culture. But when you’re in a different country and don’t speak the language, holy cow, I can see that.
Yvonne Halling (48:25.58)
Yeah, it was a huge support system there for us. It was wonderful, really good.
Jason Elkins (48:32.786)
You you remember in San Francisco, there was Chinatown, right? In Tokyo, do they have expat town or they don’t call them gringos? I don’t know what they, what they would call. Gaijin, right, right. So are there neighborhoods that are very, very like, it’s almost like the same thing as having Chinatown in San Francisco. Maybe not. Yeah. Okay.
Yvonne Halling (48:36.118)
Yes. Yes.
Yvonne Halling (48:43.522)
They call it, gaijin, gaijin, gaijin, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (48:54.444)
Yeah, almost the same, but not quite as colourful.
But that was good. And the funny thing is the sewing thing came with me to Japan and I learned several craft things, skills, just by going to classes and interacting with the expats, but also the Japanese ladies as well who had lived abroad and who had come back to their home country but still wanted to be interacting with international people. So I learned some new skills.
Jason Elkins (49:03.282)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (49:27.918)
there and you know my friend and I had a little business selling our crafts and that was interesting. then again the house was filled with things I’d made and then
Jason Elkins (49:32.297)
Huh.
Yvonne Halling (49:41.495)
And then we came back to the UK from Japan and then immediately went to France. My husband got a job with Moet. Well, first he did an MBA. He did an MBA in Paris and then he got a job with Moet and we moved to Champagne. And then I carried on, you know, remodeling my houses and decorating them with all my soft furnishings. And that really set the scene. one day I met a lady who was doing bed and breakfast and I looked at her.
and I thought, you know what, I can do that. I have the skills.
Jason Elkins (50:14.868)
Let me ask you this. I’m going to be very blunt. I don’t know if you’re still friends with her or know her, but sometimes we look at people and think, if they can do it, I’m smarter than they are. So if they can do it, I can do it. And other times we look at people and say, wow, this person’s really squared away and they’re inspiring me to follow their path. Which was it for you?
Yvonne Halling (50:28.162)
How hard can it be?
Yvonne Halling (50:42.302)
The first. Well I just thought, I just thought well how hard can that be you know I have the skills, I have the skills and I’d also I’d also taken a class. Yes I can make any room look great and I love meeting people and I’d also done, I forgot to mention this, but I’d also done a class, a course in cooking at the Cordon Bleu school in London. So I mean I had it all.
Jason Elkins (50:43.732)
Okay, moving right along. No, I get it.
Jason Elkins (50:54.452)
And you’ve got a lot of soft furnishings. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Jason Elkins (51:09.588)
That’s important.
Yvonne Halling (51:11.562)
I had it all really, but oddly enough, as I got good at my B &B and I realised that those skills are all great to start with, but those skills aren’t going to bring the guests. You’ve got to be good at marketing. You’ve got to know what you’re doing in terms of business. And that was a real growth opportunity for me because I was doing all of the fluffy stuff, what I call the fluffy stuff with the making of the nice things and making the rooms nice.
Jason Elkins (51:37.918)
fun stuff, right? It’s probably the fun stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (51:41.459)
that brought me less than 10,000 a year. But when I turned pro, as you might say, I outsourced a lot of those, the cleaning and the laundry and the cooking and lots of other things. I outsourced, I had a team so that I could focus on the one thing that only I could do and that is to attract the guests and give them an exceptional experience. And I got good at that.
Jason Elkins (51:45.777)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (52:10.165)
because it’s really hard to do that when you’re doing all those other things and you’re dealing with laundry or any of it really.
Yvonne Halling (52:14.016)
You can’t do it. You just can’t.
No, you can’t. You just can’t. And I think that applies to any business really. You get stuck in the weeds doing the thing you like doing, right? Which is taking care of the guests and doing that thing. And there’s no time to focus on, I think it’s Dan Sullivan calls it the $1,000 an hour tasks. When you’re in the weeds with the 10 bucks an hour tasks, nobody’s doing the thousand bucks an hour tasks.
Jason Elkins (52:38.707)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (52:46.324)
I remember and this has come out, it’s about leverage. One of the things that I actually really valued about working in the real estate business is I actually had good coaching and good people around me that were pretty smart about things. And they would say things like, you should get a list of people that maybe are ready to sell their homes and send them nice little handwritten notes or pass guests or pass clients or whatever. But then they would say,
But you don’t do it yourself. Because, because if you figure out that as a realtor, you know, writing contracts, showing homes and doing those things that generate money that, that you can’t pay somebody else to do. If you’re making, you know, if you figure out your average, you’re making a hundred bucks an hour working in real estate.
Yvonne Halling (53:16.429)
Right.
Jason Elkins (53:34.804)
and you’re going to sit there and spend two hours licking envelopes. It’s like, wait a minute, you’re paying $200 an hour to have somebody lick envelopes and there’s not, I’m not knocking people to lick envelopes, but there’s people that would love to lick envelopes for a much lower price than $200 an hour. It’s kind of that same, that same concept is, but people slip into a, is something I know I can do right now. And just, they feel like they’re doing something, but they’re not really.
Yvonne Halling (53:38.294)
Right, right, same principle!
Yvonne Halling (53:48.768)
Yes.
Jason Elkins (54:03.826)
doing something but they’re not really you know it’s not the best way to
Yvonne Halling (54:06.414)
They’re not really, no, they’re busy, but they’re not actually creating anything.
Jason Elkins (54:12.178)
Right, I used to hear the term, you know, getting ready to get ready or whatever, doing those things that, well, before I start this really useful project, I need to do this other project. it’s just, becomes, and I deal with it, which there’s a couple of things there, but before I go any further on that, want to, cause you’d mentioned when you were telling us about how you learned things like going to.
Yvonne Halling (54:15.743)
Yeah, yeah.
Yvonne Halling (54:24.258)
Time suck, just the time suck. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (54:38.004)
TripAdvisor or to Facebook and connecting you made a comment about you’d learned some of that stuff in a previous business And I’m not I can’t put my finger on that because I don’t know that we really touched on it So what what did we miss in the middle between? I? you got your degree and the interior decorating the soft the soft furnishings you’d a cordon blue you did a bunch of things so
Yvonne Halling (54:46.027)
Yes.
Yvonne Halling (55:02.112)
So in that, yeah, yeah, yes, I’ve done so many things. So there was a period before I went pro in my B &B where my husband didn’t have a job. And so we set up a business.
importing champagne into the UK from small producers that we knew in France. We had been there a long time and we had a network and he’d worked at Moet and we knew a lot about champagne, we knew a lot of people, we knew a lot of small producers. So we set up a business and this is just after the internet took off, particularly in the UK. And we set up this business importing champagne into the UK.
This was our first foray, truly first foray into what you might call a real business. Using and with the internet as well because that’s another element if you like, another thing to get to grips with. And we had that business for about four years and we lost it in the crash of 2008, 2009.
But I learned a ton, I learned a ton about how business works. And so I’ll be forever grateful to that very painful experience.
But I learned about, know, who is your client? Who can you best serve with what you with your knowledge and your skills? Where are they? Where are they hanging out online? How do you reach them directly to them? Not market mass market to everybody, because then you turn yourself into a commodity and commodities are chosen on price. You want to be you want to move yourself up. I have this diagram that I use of my clients, a pyramid shape. And if you can imagine on the bottom rung,
Yvonne Halling (56:55.816)
of the pyramid you’ve got the hobbyists which is where I was and then the next rung up you’ve got the generalists right these are the people who who are you know running it for a living running their business for a living but still don’t know who they can best serve still haven’t touched their own intrinsic value still haven’t tapped into that and then you’ve got the two pieces at the top the next rung up and the top rung are what I call the specialist and then the expert
and the specialist is where you can aim for and everybody in business needs to aim for the specialist category to get out of the hobbyist, to get out of the generalist categories where it’s very crowded, very crowded and it’s price driven. you need to get, when you get into the specialist category which is, know, in my world it is the specialist on your area simply because you live there, right? You already know more than your guests. All you’ve got to do
is share that knowledge online, as well as sharing it when you meet the people, when you meet your guests or your customers, you share it online as well. And the expert is like what I would call the cherry on top, is where you become a specialist on a topic of your area, right? So we became that specialist on champagne, because you may not know this, but in the champagne region of France,
It’s mostly known, I mean it’s known for the drink, right? But it’s also very well known for the World War I battlefields of the Marne and the Somme, right? Because it’s on the Marne, it’s in the Marne region and there are loads of cemeteries, loads of monuments, loads of museums and people flock there every year looking for their ancestors and their relatives, looking for the graves and World War I enthusiasts, right? So there’s a ton of tourists coming
Jason Elkins (58:44.67)
Mm-hmm.
Yvonne Halling (58:50.776)
for that reason right but I can’t talk about that because it doesn’t interest me. You remember those three concentric circles? You know where you’re located, the reasons people are coming and you.
And if you’re in alignment with what your guests are coming for, you’re onto a winner. But if you’re not, it won’t work. So I couldn’t possibly speak to the people coming for the World War I stuff, because it doesn’t interest me, and I know nothing about it. But if you want to come and discover the hidden gems of champagne, I’m your girl.
Jason Elkins (59:24.916)
Okay, got it.
Yvonne Halling (59:25.676)
I can open the doors for you, right? I can show you where to go, how to get into the, meet the people and see the, and visit the places that the ordinary tourists would never find, right?
Jason Elkins (59:36.51)
as opposed to someone down the street with an Airbnb that says, come here and there’s champagne to drink and there’s war stuff to see and they’re just trying to, they’re more the generalist, but not really doing any of it very well. But I suspect there’s plenty of people that wanna go to the champagne region of France to learn about champagne, to enjoy that part of it.
Yvonne Halling (59:40.866)
has no clue.
Yvonne Halling (59:50.508)
right, right.
Yvonne Halling (01:00:03.168)
Exactly and so I focused on them right and so when I went into the TripAdvisor travel form I thought it was Christmas you know there’s all these people in there asking questions like exactly exactly and then I went to Facebook and started joining the groups they’re like I’m like my god these are my people
Jason Elkins (01:00:06.068)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:00:12.762)
asking about what I know about and what I’m interested in. It’s very cool.
Jason Elkins (01:00:24.648)
So once the champagne business, you know, with the economy and all that stuff, I get that. And then you thought, well, geez, now I can really focus on Airbnb using the same, ooh, I said Airbnb, ooh, slap my wrist. Yeah, ooh, yeah, it is.
Yvonne Halling (01:00:31.276)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Yvonne Halling (01:00:38.06)
Yes, it’s easy to do right?
just applied the same principles. just applied the same principles because these principles are not, I didn’t make them up right? They are timeless business principles that you will get from any sound business advisor. know Dan Sullivan, Jay Abraham, here’s a quote from Jay Abraham who I love. True innovation comes from outside your industry.
Yvonne Halling (01:01:14.87)
Yes. So when you look in on your industry, you will find everybody saying the same things. But if you look outside your industry, you can pick up some principles, some key principles that aren’t being talked about inside of your industry.
Jason Elkins (01:01:16.83)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:01:33.06)
It makes absolute sense. I want to, when you first started, I guess it’s fair to say as a hobbyist, bed and breakfast person. So when you first like open the doors and said, we’re to let people stay in our house. First of all, when you bought the house or when you, I don’t remember if you said you bought it, but when you got the house, you didn’t have a plan to turn it into an Airbnb. You did. you did. Okay.
Yvonne Halling (01:01:34.721)
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (01:01:42.158)
Mm.
Yvonne Halling (01:01:54.552)
Yeah, we bought it.
Yvonne Halling (01:01:58.927)
Oh, I did, oh did, yeah, I did, I did. Yes, yes.
Jason Elkins (01:02:03.218)
The question I think I want to ask everybody, especially like was this a mutual decision? Cause I can imagine some families where maybe the wife or the husband is like, I think we should have a BNB. And I can see the other person’s like maybe not so outgoing or not so like interested in actually running into people in the living room in the morning. And they’re just like, no way. Did it?
Yvonne Halling (01:02:10.926)
You
Jason Elkins (01:02:30.44)
Was this a mutual thing or what would you like to share with our listeners about that?
Yvonne Halling (01:02:31.992)
Two things, yeah, two things. It was a mutual thing. It was a mutual. My husband enjoys sharing his knowledge about champagne. And he enjoys hospitality and hosting people as well. But he had a full-time job at the time. When we first, we bought the house specifically so that we could do B &B.
Jason Elkins (01:02:46.633)
Right.
Yvonne Halling (01:02:52.588)
Right? And it was a renovation project which I designed and I specifically designed the house so that my family was separate. So we weren’t bumping into them in the hallway in our pajamas, you know? They weren’t interacting, yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:03:07.284)
Okay, because I was gonna ask you about your daughters as well. You said they were daughters? Yeah, I was gonna ask you about.
Yvonne Halling (01:03:11.342)
Yes, yes, they were quite young, they were seven and nine at the time. And they loved it too, they loved it too. But at any point, if somebody said, don’t want to do this anymore, I don’t like it, I would have stopped. And bearing in mind, at that point, I was doing it as a hobby. So we weren’t relying on it, right? Yes, but I couldn’t stop later on and everybody could see that, right? Everybody could see that and everybody was on board and everybody helped.
Jason Elkins (01:03:28.808)
Well, yeah, you would have stopped then, but then it got to the point where,
Yvonne Halling (01:03:41.039)
into the process because we were in a sticky situation and it was a family decision to grow this thing and so that we could keep our house basically. So we were all invested in the business. But you want to be, I think, I believe that in a professional setting you need to be separate from the guests. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:03:51.284)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:04:02.878)
I think so too. I think for the guests, for the guests as well. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (01:04:05.226)
Yes. For everybody. For everybody. Yes. Yes. You do. You need to have a boundary line, right, between your family, you and your family and the guests.
Jason Elkins (01:04:17.396)
Because I’ve done not what I would call a traditional bed and breakfast, but I’ve done kind of the home stay thing that where you know, and maybe book it through a platform that we discussed earlier. And it’s a, I like, I fall into the trap every once in a I’m like, this place, you know, this room looks really nice and the reviews are great. And then I go there and I’m like, I did it again. And you know, and they’ve got the sink full of their family’s dirty dishes and they’ve got the.
Yvonne Halling (01:04:23.086)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:04:46.644)
You know just the things the nightmare things that are just like and I as soon as I walk in I’m like, damn it. I keep forgetting I’m not staying in people’s houses anymore or grandma’s sitting in the living room watching TV all day long And it’s just like you feel so awkward. I just go in my room and I stay in my room the whole time I’m like You know and they’re like, you can use the fridge and you open the fridge and like I’m not gonna eat anything out of this fridge
Yvonne Halling (01:04:52.91)
Yvonne Halling (01:04:58.734)
dear dear dear gosh yes I don’t blame you I would too and you can use the bathroom and everyone’s using the bathroom right god no no
Jason Elkins (01:05:14.914)
and then the shared bathroom thing that’s it’s like, yeah. So usually, you know, I’m like, okay, I’m out. I, my worst experience ever in four and a half years was I booked a room and a woman’s apartment for a month. I don’t know what I was thinking. I paid a month in advance because it was cheaper and I got there and yeah, she was, it was horrible. The room was falling apart. are all kinds of issues, but the worst thing is she’d sit in a living room. There’s a really small apartment here in Mexico city a few years ago.
Yvonne Halling (01:05:37.486)
I’m going to mention.
Jason Elkins (01:05:44.85)
And she would chain smoke in the room and a lot of other things. And I, and I was kind of early in my traveling and I was like, you know what, if I’m going to travel the world and be this person, I need to be able to adapt to cultures and, and not be such a, you know, snob about it. And then I was like, and I was in the army. I used to sleep in the dirt. What’s wrong with sleeping in a crummy apartment? And, and I, so I stayed a couple of days, just like telling myself I needed to, to be tougher.
And then finally I was like, I fell asleep crying one night and I got up the next morning and I’m like, why am I punishing myself? Why am I mad at myself? What, what am I trying to do? And I, yeah, what am I trying to prove? I’m trying to punish myself for choices I’ve made in the past or people I’ve upset or disappointed. And finally I got out of that place and it took me a few days to recover. had to go to port de Vera to sit on the beach. So I can get over that.
Yvonne Halling (01:06:23.534)
I’m out of here, right?
Yvonne Halling (01:06:28.6)
Try not trying to prove here.
Jason Elkins (01:06:44.286)
But anyway, so yes, I think it’s good to have separate spaces in any of those settings. I did want to ask you, your daughters, like, I don’t know what they do now. I’m kind of curious, like, did either one of them grow up and think, I want to have an Airbnb, I keep saying that, a B &B, bed and breakfast someday? Or did they like, no way, I’d never do that again? Or what was their, what did they take away from that?
Yvonne Halling (01:07:09.378)
They, one of them didn’t much like it in the end, but she was already, she moved out when she was 19 to go to college. And she didn’t like it after that. The younger one works in a hotel.
Jason Elkins (01:07:29.02)
Okay. Did, were they, were they helping to the level of like cleaning rooms and stuff like that when they were young? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. That was smart.
Yvonne Halling (01:07:34.579)
No, no, no, we had a team to do that. They didn’t do that. No, no. But they enjoyed talking to people. They enjoyed, particularly the younger one. She’s very chatty. The elder one’s more private and more reserved. But when they were young, they were both quite outgoing. But the younger one was more so. she loves people. She loves the hospitality setting. She likes working in her hotel.
interacting with international people. Both of them really enjoyed that. We all enjoyed that. We had people coming from all over the world. was because because we set out to welcome international guests who wanted to discover the hidden gems of champagne. And that meant and no disrespect to French people, but we priced ourselves out of the French market, the local market, right? Because we couldn’t add any value to French people. We could add way more value to
Jason Elkins (01:08:27.538)
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Yvonne Halling (01:08:34.352)
international people because the French people know how everything works anyway, right? They’re in their own country. Right?
Jason Elkins (01:08:40.198)
And even when they’re not in their own country, they know how it works.
Yvonne Halling (01:08:45.198)
But international people from other countries, you know, they need your help. They need your help and you can add more value. We had people from all over the world and they loved that. We all loved that. We loved it very much. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:08:47.454)
But I love it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Mm-hmm.
Jason Elkins (01:08:58.664)
very cool. So are you, do you still have a bed and breakfast? mean, obviously you’re coaching other people to do this and sharing what you learned over the years to help them take their business to the next level, but you’re not hosting guests anymore.
Yvonne Halling (01:09:13.46)
No, we sold our property and our business in 2021. So we’ve been gone now, what, five years? Yeah, yeah. We live in the UK. It was time to go home. Yeah, yeah, no, it was. We traveled a lot. We’d lived in the US. We’d lived in Japan. We lived in France for many, many years. And it was time for us to go back to the UK.
Jason Elkins (01:09:20.468)
Alright, and where do you live now?
Jason Elkins (01:09:25.958)
No, I get it. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:09:38.632)
When you go on, do you still travel occasionally? Okay. So do you always stay at bed and breakfasts or do you sometimes stay in hotels?
Yvonne Halling (01:09:41.544)
yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yvonne Halling (01:09:46.869)
No, not always. It depends. Sometimes we stay at top notch hotels, which is nice. But and sometimes we stay in in an Airbnb, actually. And sometimes we stay at proper B &Bs as well. And the hospitality is so varied between the three of them.
Jason Elkins (01:09:53.17)
Mm-hmm. OK.
Jason Elkins (01:09:58.763)
okay.
Jason Elkins (01:10:06.472)
How do you, can you honestly say that you enjoy visiting a bed and breakfast when they’re missing it and you know they’re missing it? I mean, does it, cause that’s like.
Yvonne Halling (01:10:17.356)
No, no, don’t enjoy it at all. I don’t enjoy that at all, no. Because the majority of them are missing it. The majority, sadly, are missing it.
Jason Elkins (01:10:21.82)
Yeah, it’s…
Jason Elkins (01:10:28.262)
It’s just just from what I’ve and I’m doing something different. The place I’m staying or not. Probably there might be a few that might work that might work with you that want to take it to the next level, but there’s always something missing and it’s always something that seems so obvious like a trash can in the bathroom. You know some sort of trash bin in the bathroom or there’s always I mentioned that or not having a plug close to the bed or is it just always something weird that like ooh they could fix that prop?
Yvonne Halling (01:10:40.099)
Mm.
Yvonne Halling (01:10:44.013)
Yes.
Mm. Mm.
Yvonne Halling (01:10:55.714)
Yeah.
Jason Elkins (01:10:57.576)
they don’t have to install a plug in the wall, but they could do something, move the bed maybe, I don’t know, but there’s just always something.
Yvonne Halling (01:10:59.852)
Mm. Mm.
I agree. I agree. And I think a lot of it is down to the current situation that they find themselves in, whereby they’ve been beat up on both sides of this fragmented world that I mentioned earlier. They’ve been dragged into the Airbnb model where they think they don’t have to greet guests anymore. And they’ve been dragged into the dynamic pricing of the big chains where people are booking last minute so they can get the best deal.
they haven’t taken their place in the centre and identified those sweet spots that we talked about and they haven’t gone after the guests that they want and all of that over time, particularly in this time that we’re in right now, but if they’ve been in it for a few years they will have seen the changes and experienced the changes over the years where the platforms have taken over, taken away their control and they’ve lost confidence in themselves and that is a huge loss.
I think, to this industry and also the opportunity.
Jason Elkins (01:12:09.332)
Do you, mean, asking you to, what do you think is going through their heads? I think you did a great job of explaining some of that. Do you think that sometimes when you see things just missing, do you think, do you feel like the host is just kind of giving up? Cause that’s what I hear you saying. Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (01:12:24.492)
Yeah, because they’ve been through so much, know, they’ve been through so much, particularly in the last sort of six years, you know, when we had COVID and the government came along and shut them all down. I mean, imagine that, just imagine relying on your hospitality business and the government comes along one day and says, you can’t have any guests anymore, shut your doors, stay indoors, cut off your entire income stream, your sense of purpose.
Jason Elkins (01:12:50.004)
Well, it wasn’t just hospitality. I mean, you’re right. Like the restaurants, everybody, was, oh boy, that’s a whole nother conversation. It was, yeah. And you know what, could happen tomorrow. I don’t wanna say that. I don’t wanna put it out in the universe, but that’s, know.
Yvonne Halling (01:12:52.51)
No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t, right?
It was brutal. It was brutal, right? And I don’t…
And that, and that, yeah, and that it could happen tomorrow again. And that is, I think, I don’t think, I don’t think we collectively have gotten over that.
Jason Elkins (01:13:19.42)
Yeah.
Yvonne Halling (01:13:20.524)
because nobody has apologized for what they did.
Jason Elkins (01:13:25.172)
Well, they don’t want to apologize because they want to be able to, uh, we’re getting political now, but they know, they know what we as a society will do. They now they know, Oh, this is how people respond when we do these things. So it’s a little easier to do it again because they know what mistakes they made and they know how, you know, whatever. don’t know. It’s all right. Let’s change the topic.
Yvonne Halling (01:13:29.857)
Yes.
Yvonne Halling (01:13:47.838)
I agree with you, I agree with you entirely and there’s a big conversation there but probably for another time. Or even off camera.
Jason Elkins (01:13:53.556)
For another show, another, you know, maybe for the Joe Roke, yeah, off camera, yeah, when we say goodbye to the audience, just know we’re gonna continue the conversation. But, Yvonne, we have covered a lot of things, and I know there’s always more to cover, but I also want to be respectful of your time coming to share your stories and some tips, but I want to make sure I ask you this. Yvonne, what did I forget to ask you? What do you wish I would have asked you, or what do you want to make sure our listeners know about?
about you, bedandbreakfastcoach.com, any of that stuff. We’re gonna have your link in the show notes and all that stuff, but what else, what do we need to touch on before we wrap up?
Yvonne Halling (01:14:32.238)
I think that I would like to get the message across how important hospitality is to humanity, how important it is to local economies as well, and how important it is for our own human-to-human relationships. The hospitality businesses, whether that’s…
you know, a big hotel or it’s a boutique hotel, a B &B or an inn, or whether it’s even an Airbnb. You are the bringer of new money into your community that couldn’t have come via any other means.
And it’s your job to make sure that you are bringing that new money in and keeping as much of it as possible in your local community. That means getting off the platforms where you’re handing over upwards of 15 % to them when that money needs to be in your economy, in your local economy, right? And that will, when you take your place in that position, knowing that you are the bringer of new money that couldn’t come by any other means, you’ll start to gain confidence in yourself again.
as somebody who really matters because you do.
Jason Elkins (01:15:53.682)
got me got me going so wonderful there’s so many things we’re gonna we’re just gonna have to figure out a way to have another conversation because I still have a lot of questions but anyway Yvonne this was fascinating thank you so much I I there’s probably there’s so many things like people that listening to this their tour operators they should reach out to you ignore the fact it says bad and breakfast coach calm obviously there are so many individual tour operators that could benefit from
Yvonne Halling (01:16:02.318)
Ha
Jason Elkins (01:16:22.654)
having conversations with you or at least following you. And obviously people that have bed and breakfast or want to have bed and breakfast, it’s very, cool. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Yeah, again, yeah. All right, we’ll chat with you again real soon. Thanks, Yvonne. Bye bye.
Yvonne Halling (01:16:33.804)
You’re so welcome, it was such a pleasure, thank you.
Sure, Bye for now.
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